Is Allah telling us...

[Musti]

the sky is solid as people believed it was back then?


050.006 Have they not then observed the sky above them, how We have constructed it and beautified it, and how there are no rifts therein?

Eh muslims?

Hang on.....according to Allah the the sky will indeed have rifts come judgement day:

069.016
And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that Day be flimsy,

And the sky will tear apart along with the clouds:

025.025
A day when the heaven with the clouds will be rent asunder and the angels will be sent down, a grand descent.

So that the angels can be sent down!

how will the solid sky become flimsy on day of judgement:

070.008
YUSUFALI: The Day that the sky will be like molten brass,

It will melt from solid state to liquid.
_________________
Ahmed Bahgat[Qur'an 79:30]:- and the earth after that, He squashed it.....

Ahmed Bahgat-A deluded mind:
You can even prove it wrong, I won't care.....

[Musti]

the sky must be soild if it can fall and kill people on earth:

Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man. S. 22:65


Ibn Kathir comments:


If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would killed, but by His kindness, mercy, power, He withholds the heaven from falling on earth, except by His leave..."


Allah could also drop a piece of the sky on the unbelievers if he wished:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them),
_________________
Ahmed Bahgat[Qur'an 79:30]:- and the earth after that, He squashed it.....

Ahmed Bahgat-A deluded mind:
You can even prove it wrong, I won't care.....

[Musti]

According to Allah he has made the sky a canopy:

PICKTHAL: Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth for a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy

We are also asked by Allah- who is the one who created the sky as a canopy indicating the people back then were already aware of its solid state:

002.022
PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;
_________________
Ahmed Bahgat[Qur'an 79:30]:- and the earth after that, He squashed it.....

Ahmed Bahgat-A deluded mind:
You can even prove it wrong, I won't care.....

[Musti]

So to summarise the absurdity in the koran:

1.It says we can observe the sky and see there are no cracks in it.
2.Allah could let the sky or just a piece fall on earth and kill humans if he willed.
3.Allah questions the readers; who has created the sky as a canopy? And that the canopy is a sign from Allah. What canopy did 7th century arabs believe in?
4.The sky will crack on judgement day to allow angels to descent.
5.It will also melt from its solid state into a liquid one.
_________________
Ahmed Bahgat[Qur'an 79:30]:- and the earth after that, He squashed it.....

Ahmed Bahgat-A deluded mind:
You can even prove it wrong, I won't care.....

[Nosubmission]

Additionally, we have another verse in the Koran that designates the heavens and the earth as objects held by Allah:

Surah 35:41
Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.

This verse contradicts and denies the misleading interpretation of the following verse, which is always used by Muslims like Harun Yahya as evidence for the so-called scientific miracles of the Koran.

Surah 51:47
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

Muslim scholars claim that the verb used in Arabic connotes expansion and predicts the scientific discovery of the expansion of the universe. However, Surah 35:41 does not allow this sort of an interpretation since it regards the heavens and the earth as solid structures whose motion is prevented by Allah, who regards this prevention as a sign of his might!

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I am choosing not to submit either willingly or reluctantly. Catch me if you can!

[ibn_rushd2]

I propose that #2 means that a comet or asteroid can come hit the Earth, punishing its inhabitants.

For #1, I think it refers to the ancient belief that after the planets, there was a solid wall, and that was the end of the universe. Hence no cracks since there is nothing beyond it.
_________________
The following tale of alien encounters is true. By true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies--and, in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is no.

Leonard Nimoy, hosting The Simpsons

[Musti]

Hi ibn_rushd2 and thanks for participating.

[Musti]

[Musti]

Also sura 21:32 describes the sky as a solid roof:

And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

Here with have the Koran describing the sky as a roof and and telling the unbelievers back then that this roof is one of Allahs signs. Clearly this can only be the solid sky myth that people believed in back then, it couldn't be any more obvious.

So what does ibn kathir say about this sura:

Kathir states:
a roof, safe and well-guarded>
means, covering the earth like a dome above it


_________________
Ahmed Bahgat[Qur'an 79:30]:- and the earth after that, He squashed it.....

Ahmed Bahgat-A deluded mind:
You can even prove it wrong, I won't care.....

[Nosubmission]

Here is an article from my paper written to debunk the so-called scientific miracles and predictions of the Koran:

ANOTHER HOAX: THE SKY AS A GUARDED ROOF IN THE KORAN

Working on the statements in the Koran that provide a specific Islamic portrayal of the heavens is a general characteristic of the Islamic scholars and writers that find in every case a way of attaching recent scientific discoveries to some Koran verses obscure in meaning or open to multiple interpretations. In other words, the peculiar depictions of the sky and the universe are second to none for many Islamic writers in the choice of Koran verses that give the hope of attractive and challenging comments or analogies, and several Muslims seem to have been beckoned by the majority of such verses.

One of the weird connections Muslim scholars/writers manage to make between the scientific data about the universe and a Koran verse is expounded in various books of Islamic propoganda under the title “The Guarded Roof”. To clarify this point and augment the examples manifesting the alleged miraculous peculiarities of the Islamic Holy Scripture, Muslims cling to this verse:

Surah 21:32
“And We made the heaven as a guarded roof, yet they are turning away from its Signs”


Then are added the crucial comment for those who fail to grasp the significance of this piece of revelation:

This outstanding feature of the sky was proved through scientific probations in the 20th century. The Atmosphere, which encompasses the world, fulfills the vital functions that are crucial for the continuity of liveliness. It annihilates numerous meteors in big and small size approaching the world by melting them and prevents them from falling onto the land and causing much harm to living beings.

It must be noted in the first place that the Islamic ability and swiftness to construe the “sky” in the verse as “atmosphere” deserve much more praise than the supposed fact the verse itself reveals. Indeed, every single Muslim scholar possesses a wonderful ability to distinguish between the “sky” and the “universe”, which the Koran defines with the same word. This ability also merits applause as it adeptly ignores and conceals the fact that the verse introduced as hard evidence is only one of the several verses in the Koran pertaining to the guarded sky. The last – but not the least – Islamic success is the Muslims scholars' eagerness and audaciousness to “distort” a Koran verse, assigning an active role in their exposition to the passive form of the verb “guard”; thus, the word "roof" in their hands ceases to be something “guarded” and starts to be something “guarding”. As a result, in the latest personal Koran version of those scholars, the sky is not the object of protection (although the verse quoted marks Allah as the agent of the verb), but is the perpetrator of guarding our world from meteors!

Here are some other verses in the Koran that depict the sky as a roof guarded by God; moreover, these verses elucidate against what the sky is protected:

Surah 15:16-18
“And We have set constellations in the heaven and adorned them for the beholders, and We have guarded it from every outcast devil, except him who listens by stealth then a visible flame follows him”

Surah 37:6-10
“We have adorned the nearer heaven with the adornment of the planets, and to guard against every rebel devil; they cannot listen to the High Council, for they are pelted from every side, to be repelled, and for them is a perpetual punishment, but any who snatches away a point, a shining flame follows him”

These two verses teach that the sky is guarded against rebellious devils and that Allah uses meteors to guard the sky, which is in sharp contrast with the modern Islamic argument that the sky protects the world from meteors inasmuch as meteors are the useful instruments of protection:

Surah 67:5
“And We have adorned the nearer heaven with lamps, and made them means to stone the devils, and We have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze”

The following verse – believed to have been said by jinns – overtly debunks the ridiculous claim that the Koran foretells the guarding function of the atmosphere:

Surah 72:8-10
“We touched the heaven, and found it filled with terrible guards and meteors, and that we used to sit on its listening posts; __ but any who listens now shall find a meteor in wait for him, and that we do not know whether harm is desired for those on the earth, or their Lord desires the rectitude for them”

As a consequence, what is revealed by the alternative reading of a Koran verse by many Muslim scholars and translators is more than a grammatical modification called ‘passive voice’ and even represents the deliberate distortion of the Islamic scripture.

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I am choosing not to submit either willingly or reluctantly. Catch me if you can!

[Islamis_Allah_Tashit]

The problem here is that it says the Heavens are guarded not the earth. The atmosphere guards the earth not the heavens. So these twisted moron apologists couldn't even get THAT right. They have it in the reverse order and nobody notices. Look at how desperate Muslims are to see the Quran as correct where they can't even see this simple but completely obvious flaw in their explanation. In fact, the lying apologists are so stupid that even THEY couldn't see the obvious flaw in their explanation. I swear, these people are so desperate to MAKE the Quran divine, that they become completely retarded and make mistakes that even a 5th grader wouldn't make. And then, the worst part, is that they can't even understand why you are not buying into their rubbish. It's truly pathetic and yet they unwittingly continue to publish this embarrassing crap. And these morons are 1/5 of the world's population. We have to share the world with a bunch of hypnotized, backwards thinking, retarded lunatics. It's very alarming. And then, when we consider that they think they, and their ways, should be in control, it becomes downright frightening. What does one do with a retarded, rabid lunatic who seeks to rule over you?
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Somebody get me a hairdryer

[Islamis_Allah_Tashit]

I think the interesting part here is that not one single Muslim will touch this thread. That's what ALWAYS happens when this topic is brought up. They fall silent. But the amazing part is that it doesn't even effect them. They see errors right in front of their face that they have no answer for, and somehow, they are able to miraculously ignore them as if they were never even pointed out. These people are the most brainwashed, hypnotized people on the planet.

Now, for the nail in the coffin. The Quran most certainly did see the sky as a roof or canopy that was decorated by the stars and it even tells us this. Since this lowest heaven was decorated by the stars, it could NOT be referring to the earth's atmosphere, but instead was referring to everything that is seen in the sky. We know that the stars are contained WITHIN the universe, therefore if the stars decorate the lowest heaven, then the universe has to be the lowest heaven. The Quran tells us that the sky and the earth were first joined together and then Allah split them apart and raised the sky above the earth. Obviously, the universe cannot be split from the earth because it contains the earth. It would be liking saying you can split your body from the food you ate while it's in your stomach. It's impossible. So how could the Quran contend that the sky was split from the earth and raised above it? There's one and only one way, and that would be if the Quran did indeed consider the sky (or what is really the universe) as a canopy that was raised above the earth. Then it all fits together and makes perfect sense. And the Quran even tells us right to our face that the sky is like a canopy. How much more does anyone need??

OBVIOUS AND IRREFUTABLE ERROR !!!!

And I raised this point a while back and it completely dumbfounded every single Muslim on this board. They honestly never saw this or ever thought of it. Did that make any difference?? NO. They have this bizarre ability to erase it from their minds. This is why others are far more optimistic about the ability of Muslims to eventually see the truth than I am, and this is why I basically just ridicule them at this point rather than try to show them the truth. Allah has surely sealed their minds.
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Somebody get me a hairdryer

[Islamis_Allah_Tashit]

Nice job Musti and Nosubmission for bringing this issue up. Muslims don't have a single thing to say about it. No surprise because it's indefensible. Out of all the errors in the Quran, this one is the most obvious and the best. It's the handy dandy spray can of "Mullah Off".
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Somebody get me a hairdryer

[Musti]

[Musti]