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How A Devout Muslim Become A Follower Of Jesus Christ !
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Haik Monsieur



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Mughal wrote:
Dear parvez_mushtaq greetings.

May I ask, are you a muslim? If yes what kind of muslims?

regards and

i am a muslim
and i dont know about the "KINDS" among the muslims


Aren't you belonging to this planet earth?

Mughal's question or its undertone was whether you are a Quran-only Muslim or Quran plus few Hadiths Muslim, or again Quran plus all Sahih hadiths Muslim..?

Is it hard to answer? What do you follow? If your answer is Quran and your prophet's Sunna, then you should make clear again whether you are a Shia or not. If you are not a Shia, then again you can clarify you are either a Qadiyani or not. If you are not a Qadiyani, then you can tell us whether you are a Sufi or not. If you are not a Sufi, you may tell us whether you are a Salafi. If you are a Salafi, tell us whether you are a Wahhabi or not.

See.. I can go on and on and on..... But you say you haven't got any idea of these endless possibilities to become a Muslim..?? What do you represent? Don't tell us there is only one Islam and you are following it. Oh..no please. We have witnessed to many mosques exploding. Will you foot on those debris and say you don't know of any variance among Muslims..!

KhaliL

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chingachgook



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
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Location: Land of Twilight Zone

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parvey_mustang wrote:
so i take the way of jesus is recorded in gospel
in other words a christian should lead his life as recorded in gospel by jesus


"If you love me, take up your cross and follow me ...." (meaning : to be ready to serve, to be ready to suffer, to be humble and meek, to love others including the outcastes and unwanted in societies, to give ...) That, PM, is the way of Jesus, in a nutshell. His WAY is to follow His examples, parables and teachings.

Quote:
can you show me AT LEAST ONE CHRISTIAN ON THIS PLANET WHO FOLLOW THE GOSPEL(that includes your pope as well dear)
only thing that christian know is "JESUS LOVES YOU"
rest nothing ,


The Red Cross, Soup Kitchen volunteers and donors, Mother Teresa, The Salvation Armies, St John's Ambulance, Chesire Homes, Homes for destitutes, orpjans and homeless, Homes for the blind and aged, Clinics, schools and Hospital staff and donors, Women Crises Hotlines, Migrant Workers Centers staff and donors .....

Yes, those who profess they are Christians DO go round committing ALL the sins they are capable of committing BUT tell me who is the holiest and sinless man on this planet past and present? If you can find me one, JUST ONE MAN, we can employ him to be The Enforcer of God's Laws, in other word, he alone should be worthy to stone people to death. He alone should be the Sharia Court Judge, Jury and Excutioner


Quote:
i am a muslim
and i dont know about the "KINDS" among the muslims


And you don't even know there are "KINDS" of Muslims.

Do Shiites, Sunnis, Wahabis, Jemaah Islamiah, The Brotherhoods, Sufis, etc ring a bell?
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time to wake up



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 265
Location: Southern England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parvez_mushtaq wrote:
time to wake up wrote:
Dear Parvez

The way of Jesus is not to be found in ritual and outward show which mean nothing, but in Following what Jesus said as recorded in the Gospels and not the Koran. You will find there a lifetime's worth of teaching to challenge you.

so i take the way of jesus is recorded in gospel
in other words a christian should lead his life as recorded in gospel by jesus
can you show me AT LEAST ONE CHRISTIAN ON THIS PLANET WHO FOLLOW THE GOSPEL(that includes your pope as well dear)
only thing that christian know is "JESUS LOVES YOU"
rest nothing ,
just saying JESUS LOVES YOU is not the way of gospel and not a religion
hope you will really wake up dear wake up
i dont want to blame Christians
i should blame GOSPEL because NONE CAN LEAD HIS LIFE AS PER GOSPEL , if jesus comes to earth now ,even he cannot lead his life as per gospel
if your jesus is still living ask him to give you a new gospel to suit today's world (since you people see him daily as you see a window of your house !)


Hi Again Parvez

It's clear from your post that you have an interesting take on the Gospel

It's not just about saying Jesus loves you, but about honouring God, and living His way – and your right many Christians consistently fail in this, myself included.

But the Gospel (good news) is that when we fail, we are not condemned, we have an advocate in Jesus who was holy and did not sin, in fact we believe that precisely because He was sinless, death could not justifiably hold Him, and God raised Him from the dead after His ordeal on the cross. This does not mean Christians can do what they like in the foreknowledge that they will be forgiven - God knows the heart of all men.

Christians follow Jesus because He embodies in Himself the best we can be, goodness, compassion, mercy and grace, not only to those who like us (and this is the hard part) but also those that hate and despise us. The many teachings on repaying right for wrong, forgiving and doing good to those who persecute you, I believe actually changes the world one kindness at a time. Responding with violence only creates more and worse violence.

The Gospels, portray the life and teachings of Jesus, they are not a prescriptive on every aspect of modern life. Jesus' teaching frees us, not ties us down in rules and regulations. He says nothing a man eats makes him unclean, nor who he associates with, only we can do that if we lust after what is bad for us.

Jesus taught: love God, with every aspect of your being, and to love the stranger, the outcast, the downtrodden, the broken, the disenfranchised, the poor, the widows, the orphans, the beggars etc.– our neighbours, and treat them as you would like to be treated in their place, or as we would treat ourselves.

To me this makes the Gospel as real today as it ever was, it is not a hippy doctrine of glib wishes but demands real action amongst the poor and needy, it demands justice for those society ignores, and it demands Christians get their hands dirty in the reality of a needy world in order to make it better.

Regards
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simony



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Re: Way Of Jesus ! Reply with quote

parvez_mushtaq wrote:
simony wrote:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Rex wrote:
are you from Indonesia?

can tell me the way of jesus


My friend, Please visit this website and you will understand it better.
http://www.gilead.ws

i want your way of understanding of the religion
i don't want a link to know about your understanding
i don't want a parrot
pl answer me plainly
i know jesus was a truth
not as a LORD but rather as a human
i asked you the way of jesus
i know he told you to follow his but what is his way
or i should understand that just say JESUS LOVES YOU and commit all the possible sins
how should i lead my life, i mean what is the way of life i should follow
did jesus had shown this way
or just that i should lead my life as bible directs
does bible has detailed the way of life
i want this answers dear
NOT JUST JESUS LOVES YOU
i heard lots of Christians telling this and failed me to show the way to lead my life


My Friend, Compare and study is the best way to understand it.
To understand Jesus better use this comparison -

How Can Mohammad Be Greater Than Jesus When Jesus Christ Is The Son of The Living God ! Why Listen Mohammad More Than Jesus,When God Has Sent His Son As The Savior Of The World?
Mohammad did not die on the cross for the sins of the mankind but Jesus did.
Mohammad is not WORD became flesh.But Jesus Christ is the WORD [Logos] became flesh and dwelt among us..
Mohammad is not from above.But Jesus came down from heaven.God sent him..
No one knew nothing about Mohammad before his birth.But the scriptures were filled with the prophecies concerning different aspects of Christ’s life and all were waiting for him
Angels did not sing and rejoice and tell the good news to the shepherds when Mohammad was born.But they did when Jesus was born and a star appeared in the sky at the time of his birth .

God did not say Mohammad was His son.But He spoke from heaven about Jesus, “This is My beloved Son.”
Mohammad did not come to save the world.But Jesus came as the Savior of the world.
Mohammad cannot forgive anyone’s sin, But Jesus has authority to forgive man’s sins.
[When Jesus forgave the sins of a paralytic he got up and walked.]
Mohammad cannot give eternal life to anyone.But Jesus said,"He who believes in me has everlasting life."John;6:47
Mohammad cannot make people God’s children.But as many as received Jesus to them He gave the right to become children of God, [John;1:12]
Lord Jesus gave his disciples the right to call God their Father, Mohammad did not.
Mohammad cannot raise the dead But the voice of Jesus will bring all the dead out of their graves.He said,"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” John;11:25
Mohammad could not do the works Jesus did. Neither could he speak the words Jesus spoke.
Mohammad did not give up his life and take it back as Jesus did.
When Mohammad died he did not come out of his tomb and say,"I have the keys of death and Hades."But Jesus did and he sat down at the right hand of the throne of God in heaven.
Mohammad is dead and buried and still in the tomb. but Jesus before He leaves the world announced what he would do after his death He died and rose again..
No one saw Mohammad after he died but Jesus rose again and appeared to his disciples and was with them always.
Mohammad is not the way to God. But Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and he said,"No one comes to the Father [God the Father] but by me." John;14:6
Mohammad does not and cannot give the Holy Spirit.But Jesus went to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit.Jesus is the giver of the Holy Spirit. [see Joel 2 and acts 2]
Angels do not worship Mohammad. But all the angels in heaven worship Jesus.
Jesus is Lord . Mohammad is not
Mohammad will not appear as King of kings and Lord of lords But Jesus will come and reign on earth as King of kings and Lord of lords..
Mohammad is not going to judge the world but Jesus will Judge both the living and the dead.
"At the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth.And every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
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parvez_mushtaq



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="time to wake up"]

Quote:
But the Gospel (good news) is that when we fail, we are not condemned, we have an advocate in Jesus who was holy and did not sin, in fact we believe that precisely because He was sinless......

but jesus never claimed himself as sinless or even good
there are lots of sins committed by jesus himself in bible
and he himself claimed he is not "GOOD"
Matthew 19-17:And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
so start STUDYING bible , don't just read bible

Quote:
Christians follow Jesus because He embodies in Himself the best we can be, goodness, compassion, mercy and grace, not only to those who like us (and this is the hard part) but also those that hate and despise us. The many teachings on repaying right for wrong, forgiving and doing good to those who persecute you, I believe actually changes the world one kindness at a time. Responding with violence only creates more and worse violence.

The Gospels, portray the life and teachings of Jesus, they are not a prescriptive on every aspect of modern life. Jesus' teaching frees us, not ties us down in rules and regulations. He says nothing a man eats makes him unclean, nor who he associates with, only we can do that if we lust after what is bad for us.

Jesus taught: love God, with every aspect of your being, and to love the stranger, the outcast, the downtrodden, the broken, the disenfranchised, the poor, the widows, the orphans, the beggars etc.– our neighbours, and treat them as you would like to be treated in their place, or as we would treat ourselves.

To me this makes the Gospel as real today as it ever was, it is not a hippy doctrine of glib wishes but demands real action amongst the poor and needy, it demands justice for those society ignores, and it demands Christians get their hands dirty in the reality of a needy world in order to make it better.

All LOVE SAGA i have heared too much dear
you don't have to be a christian to be good to others
can you tell me one religion which tells us hate your neighbor or don't be good to the orphans or things of this sort
i am asking you a simple question
CAN YOU EVER LEAD YOUR LIFE AS BIBLE COMMANDED FOR YOU
see you should lead your life as it says
and jesus himself says that in

mathew 5-17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

mathew 5-18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

mathew 5- 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

mathew 5- 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

so in order to follow jesus you should take laws of bible in your life as lead according to it
NO BRAIN WASHING PL AND NO "LOVE" SAGA ALSO
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Mughal



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear parvez_mushtaq, could I ask why you reject other religions and accept islam?
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parvez_mushtaq



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Way Of Jesus ! Reply with quote

[quote="simony"]

Quote:
My Friend, Compare and study is the best way to understand it.
To understand Jesus better use this comparison -

lets compare dear
but first see what is"GOD" and what is a "human"
human ,if we consider all humans from the first human (Adam pbuh) to the last human just before the day of Resurrection as one ,ie assume all humans as a single entity (again all trillions of humans considered as one large big entity, hope you will figure this out,)then that large entity will be like an atom in the ocean ,and that ocean is not GOD but the creation of GOD!
so human is an atom in a ocean and holds nothing in his creation
and the word GOD fall much short to describe the ORIGINAL ORGINATOR and we have no words to describe GOD in this worldly languages , as quran rightly quotes about GOD in
18. Al-Kahf (The Cave)-109. Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."



Quote:
How Can Mohammad Be Greater Than Jesus When Jesus Christ Is The Son of The Living God ! Why Listen Mohammad More Than Jesus,When God Has Sent His Son As The Savior Of The World?

they cannot be compared because both were the prophets of god and the best in their period and both were HUMANS ,who ate food,slept,walked in the markets as an ordinary humans
Quote:
Mohammad did not die on the cross for the sins of the mankind but Jesus did.

even jesus never deid on the cross , we muslims will never abuse jesus for being dragged naked along the streets and crucified along with criminals and GOD never humiliate his good SLAVES
Quote:
Mohammad is not WORD became flesh.But Jesus Christ is the WORD [Logos] became flesh and dwelt among us..

even jesus was not god in flesh and he never claimed this in bible
Quote:
Mohammad is not from above.But Jesus came down from heaven.God sent him.
.
all prophets belong to earth and they were humans and all of them were send by GOD
Quote:
No one knew nothing about Mohammad before his birth.But the scriptures were filled with the prophecies concerning different aspects of Christ’s life and all were waiting for him

which scriptures
Quote:
Angels did not sing and rejoice and tell the good news to the shepherds when Mohammad was born.But they did when Jesus was born and a star appeared in the sky at the time of his birth .

pl telecast this event on net and i will become a christian

Quote:
God did not say Mohammad was His son.But He spoke from heaven about Jesus, “This is My beloved Son.”

good you have changed the word BEGOTTEN as beloved but jesus himself denies as to be god in
john 10 -34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Quote:
Mohammad did not come to save the world.But Jesus came as the Savior of the world.

really ,jesus not even given you a practical set of laws by which you will follow , pl follow bible then tell me by bible jesus saved this world
Quote:
Mohammad cannot forgive anyone’s sin, But Jesus has authority to forgive man’s sins.

it is your belief , even the sins of jesus will be forgiven only by the wish of GOD
Quote:
[When Jesus forgave the sins of a paralytic he got up and walked.]
Mohammad cannot give eternal life to anyone.But Jesus said,"He who believes in me has everlasting life."John;6:47

but jesus never splited the sea as moses did and jesus never had a serpent as moses had
meaning to say that
during the time of Moses , magic was at its best and all the magicians of that time know very well that moses was not doing magic but by the will of GOD he is performing this
similarly , at the time of jesus , medicine was at its best and they clearly know that what jesus is performing is not a magic but by the will of GOD(and jesus himself testifies this )
so , during the period of mohammed (pbuh) there was a specialty if you want to know ,i have to write in a separate page for this
Quote:
Mohammad cannot make people God’s children.But as many as received Jesus to them He gave the right to become children of God, [John;1:12]

no one is children of GOD , pl once again read the differene between GOD and human
Quote:
Lord Jesus gave his disciples the right to call God their Father, Mohammad did not.

pl read the difference GOD and human
Quote:
Mohammad cannot raise the dead But the voice of Jesus will bring all the dead out of their graves.He said,"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” John;11:25

BY THE WILL GOD (you left this , jesus himself never did any thingof his own)
Quote:
Mohammad could not do the works Jesus did. Neither could he speak the words Jesus spoke.

and those words of jesus are not written by jesus and not even by his disciples but all are lost
pl give a GOSPEL OF JESUS if you have
Quote:
Mohammad did not give up his life and take it back as Jesus did.
When Mohammad died he did not come out of his tomb and say,"I have the keys of death and Hades."But Jesus did and he sat down at the right hand of the throne of God in heaven.
Mohammad is dead and buried and still in the tomb. but Jesus before He leaves the world announced what he would do after his death He died and rose again..
No one saw Mohammad after he died but Jesus rose again and appeared to his disciples and was with them always.

jesus never died on cross ,that too naked ,humiliated abused , GOD would never give such a humiliation to his prophets
Christians take no pain in royally abusing jesus and we muslims strongly condemn this abuses on jesus
Quote:
Mohammad is not the way to God. But Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and he said,"No one comes to the Father [God the Father] but by me." John;14:6

even i am requesting to all christians to follow the way of jesus , lead your life as jesus told you in bible , why there is not even a single christian not following bible's way of life
Quote:
Mohammad does not and cannot give the Holy Spirit.But Jesus went to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit.Jesus is the giver of the Holy Spirit. [see Joel 2 and acts 2]

send that spirit to me also
Quote:
Angels do not worship Mohammad. But all the angels in heaven worship Jesus.

angels worship non but GOD
Quote:
Jesus is Lord . Mohammad is not

one who eats ,shits ,sleep,weep,walk cannot be a GOD , pl read the definition of GOD
Quote:
Mohammad will not appear as King of kings and Lord of lords But Jesus will come and reign on earth as King of kings and Lord of lords..

when , jesus said that generation will not pass ,and his disciples thought this will happen during their period ,but it is 2000+ years but this thing never happened ,pl tell me weather bible was wrong or history has forgotten to record this event
Quote:
Mohammad is not going to judge the world but Jesus will Judge both the living and the dead.
"At the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth.And every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"

again read the description of GOD , no human is worth to be worshiped except god
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parvez_mushtaq



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mughal wrote:
Dear parvez_mushtaq, could I ask why you reject other religions and accept islam?

dear
islam never preached to reject other religions rather it says all religions are from GOD but they have changed
ONLY TRUE RELIGION IS ISLAM
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parvez_mushtaq



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="chingachgook"]

Quote:
"If you love me, take up your cross and follow me ...." (meaning : to be ready to serve, to be ready to suffer, to be humble and meek, to love others including the outcastes and unwanted in societies, to give ...) That, PM, is the way of Jesus, in a nutshell. His WAY is to follow His examples, parables and teachings.

pl give the reference of your quote


Quote:
The Red Cross, Soup Kitchen volunteers and donors, Mother Teresa, The Salvation Armies, St John's Ambulance, Chesire Homes, Homes for destitutes, orpjans and homeless, Homes for the blind and aged, Clinics, schools and Hospital staff and donors, Women Crises Hotlines, Migrant Workers Centers staff and donors .....

Yes, those who profess they are Christians DO go round committing ALL the sins they are capable of committing BUT tell me who is the holiest and sinless man on this planet past and present? If you can find me one, JUST ONE MAN, we can employ him to be The Enforcer of God's Laws, in other word, he alone should be worthy to stone people to death. He alone should be the Sharia Court Judge, Jury and Excutioner

sir pl dont think only Christians are doing this , even lots of good things are done by Hindus also
only difference is all other people lack media and never boast about their good deeds
and by the way , this what religion is all about ,BY THE FEAR OF GOD BE GOOD TO HUMANITY and all religions teaches this
i am asking about the code of law that is to be followed by christians and you are talking about good and bad things of christians sir
pl tell me which law of bible you can follow , and i want to remind you jesus himself told you to do so


Quote:
And you don't even know there are "KINDS" of Muslims.

Do Shiites, Sunnis, Wahabis, Jemaah Islamiah, The Brotherhoods, Sufis, etc ring a bell?

oh that kind ,haha
does any of them say mohammed(pbuh) is the son of god
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parvez_mushtaq



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haik Monsieur wrote:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Mughal wrote:
Dear parvez_mushtaq greetings.

May I ask, are you a muslim? If yes what kind of muslims?

regards and

i am a muslim
and i dont know about the "KINDS" among the muslims


Aren't you belonging to this planet earth?

Mughal's question or its undertone was whether you are a Quran-only Muslim or Quran plus few Hadiths Muslim, or again Quran plus all Sahih hadiths Muslim..?

Is it hard to answer? What do you follow? If your answer is Quran and your prophet's Sunna, then you should make clear again whether you are a Shia or not. If you are not a Shia, then again you can clarify you are either a Qadiyani or not. If you are not a Qadiyani, then you can tell us whether you are a Sufi or not. If you are not a Sufi, you may tell us whether you are a Salafi. If you are a Salafi, tell us whether you are a Wahhabi or not.

See.. I can go on and on and on..... But you say you haven't got any idea of these endless possibilities to become a Muslim..?? What do you represent? Don't tell us there is only one Islam and you are following it. Oh..no please. We have witnessed to many mosques exploding. Will you foot on those debris and say you don't know of any variance among Muslims..!

KhaliL

hi haik
i am here on earth and in India
and pl don't run away in the middle
can you tell me does any of this sects says there are two gods or mohammed(pbuh) is the son of GOD
they all follow quran and the same GOD
their tradition differs because man is more attached to his race and tradition but by quran they all are one
so there is no KIND is islam
that is why i said i know nothing about the KIND of muslims
who never follow quran or take mohammed(pbuh) as his son
all muslims believe quran is the word of GOD and mohammed (pbuh) was his prophet and they even say jesus was a prophet,non of the muslim sect says jesus was the son of god .ALL MUSLIMS have the same faith
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chingachgook



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 3101
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parvey_Mustaq wrote:
pl give the reference of your quote


Mark 10:21

Quote:
sir pl dont think only Christians are doing this , even lots of good things are done by Hindus also
only difference is all other people lack media and never boast about their good deeds


Yeah, even Atheist, Buddhists, Hindoos.... but not Islam, and we are talking about Islam here. Muslims are suffering from famine in Africa and where do the rich Sheikhs put their money? To build more mosques, to buy more guns! Who are looking after the welfare of poor Muslims? The non-Muslims! .... and you all shout from mountain tops that you give alms as if only your religion do so.

Quote:

and by the way , this what religion is all about ,BY THE FEAR OF GOD BE GOOD TO HUMANITY and all religions teaches this


Yeah BE GOOD TO HUMANITY Do Jews and other kuffars count as humanity? .... Not Islam!

Quote:
i am asking about the code of law that is to be followed by christians and you are talking about good and bad things of christians


Your earlier post insinuate christians as people who commit all sort of sins.

Quote:

sir
pl tell me which law of bible you can follow , and i want to remind you jesus himself told you to do so


...... and the greatest of ALL Commandments is "Love your neighbour as yourself"

Quote:
oh that kind ,haha
does any of them say mohammed(pbuh) is the son of god


Irrelevant question.
(BTW it is a sin to associate a criminal, robber, slave-trader, paedophile and murderer to God. )
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Mersk



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I half-expecting a non-Christian to tell Muslims what religion was Jesus practicing from the completed Injeel Allah gave him?!
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simony



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: God Has Children ! Reply with quote

Why Muslims Say They Are Only Slaves ?
Since the Scriptures from the beginning speak about God's children in many places why the Muslims say they are only slaves of Allah ?
God says "Israel is my son,even my first born",and "I am a Father to Israel."
Does the Koran anywhere says that Muslims are God's sons and daughters?
The Holy Bible talks about God's chilren.Created, Chosen,Begotten,Adopted and all that.In which one of these categories the Muslims are listed?Why they say they are only slaves?Lord Jesus came to make sons of men sons of God."Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God."John;1;12,13

God's Children -It's because of your ignorace of Scriptures you say God doesn't have Children.

"…Adam, which was the son of God."
a. Genesis, Chapter 6 verse 2
" That the sons of God saw the daughters of men,"
b. Exodus, Chapter 4 verse 22
"…Israel is my son, even my firstborn".
c. Jeremiah, Chapter 31 verse 9
"…For I (God) am a Father to Israel, and E’-phra-im is my firstborn."
d. Psalms, Chapter 2 verse 7
"…the LORD hath said unto me, ‘Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee.’"
" God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.
e...John;3;16

..They are born of God."
f....John;1;13
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
g...Romans,chapter 8 verse 14

If Mohammad told you that you are slaves of Allah ,no problem.But this is what the Lord Jesus said,"A slave does not remain in a household forever, but a son always remains.So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free."John;8;35,36
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FreePower



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of how we think of a father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1,14)

Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, "The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.'" In Bible times, the phrase “son of man” was used to describe a human being. The son of a man is a man.

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God" (Matthew 26:63). Jesus responded, “Yes, it is as you say, ‘but I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven” (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Why would claiming to be the “Son of God” be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the “Son of God” is to be of the same nature as God. The “Son of God” is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God, to in fact “be God,” was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being…”

Another example can be found in John 17:12 where Judas is described as the "son of perdition." John 6:71 tells us that Judas was the son of Simon. What does John 17:12 mean by describing Judas as the "son of perdition"? The word "perdition" means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste" - but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition. In this same aspect, Jesus is the Son of God. The Son of God is God. Jesus is God made manifest (John 1:1,14)

Here are more verses to backup my case:

Mat 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Mat 13:14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'

Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

John 8:56-58 'Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself.

John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

John 8:23-24 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins."

John 11:25-27 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" "Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

John 14:6-7 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.

John 10:24-33 The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

In conclusion If you would like me to go on and write more I will do so, now if you would like we can make an exclusive room and have a debate.
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Mughal



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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Location: Islamabad,Pakistan Glasgow,Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Mughal wrote:
Dear parvez_mushtaq, could I ask why you reject other religions and accept islam?

dear
islam never preached to reject other religions rather it says all religions are from GOD but they have changed
ONLY TRUE RELIGION IS ISLAM



Thank you dear parvez_mushtaq but may I ask, how did you come to the conclusion that other religious scriptures were corrupted and that quran remains intact when the available evidences puts them all in the same basket?

regards and
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