Help me disprove , I'm exhausted with searching

[emma67]

Dear all who are responsible for this site.

I registered very selfishly to ask for your help and mostly 'lights'

A few things about me so you can understand what I am after.
Westerner, Born an atheist, then became an agnostic.
Married a Muslim (one of those so called very moderate, open-minded 1)
Read the Qu'ran and decided that it was right on the sole basis that God is 1 as opposed to the Christian Trinity.
A while back, I realized that my conception of Christianity was stupid.
I realized that I wasn't a Muslim.
I realize too that I do believe in God (it may be stupid to some of you, this is another story, it's not to me, it's my right, each to their own)

My problem right now:
I am exhausted reading about the Qu'ran, Christianity, Science, Quantum Mechanics, the so-called miracles of the Qu'ran, etc.
I have read a lot of info on your site but it's so huge I haven't managed to find answers to everything I need.
Some Muslim professors and scientists are 'in charge of me
to answer my questions.
They come with their usual set of proofs, quoting Keith Moore and the like and the miracles of Qu'ran supposedly there so that a foreigner like myself who cannot understand Arabic much can still believe in the Qu'ran. They are nice people but that is beside the point.

I need answers to the following. I know you are far more knowledgeable than I am since my 'trip' out of Islam has only just started, and I hope you will help me out.

1 – Keith Moore. I know he recently published a new book in which he agrees that the bones and flesh in embryology appear simultaneously.
Problem: If I mention this to these Muslims who told me first how he validated the Qu'ran, they will invariably say that he had to change his mind because of Sep 2001, that everyone hates Muslims now, or even that he doesn't say this in this new book. I have no proof, only the net. They will also mention other professors who still back up the Qu'ran. How do I shut them up on embryology. I tried with Aristotle etc but they told me that these writings if they exist were ALTERED because everyone hates Islam now... What the HELL did Keith Moore made these comments about the Qu'ran in the first place?


2 - The Bible proves that the next Prophet will be Mohamad. His name is even mentioned in Hebrew and in Greek, etc. Jesus talked about him, blahblah. No need for details, I'm sure you know them by heart. How do I disprove this?

3 – The case of the mountains as a miracle to them is not so much that they are supposed to hold the earth (yes, we know it's wrong), but that the Qu'ran states that in that chapter that they are like the passing of clouds, in other words, to them, this proves the earth MOVED, but we don't feel it because the mountains etc seem static.

4 – The universe expanding is mentioned in the Qu'ran according to them. They gave me the Surah, I read it in English, forgot which one but again, I'm sure you will know the references. This causes me a problem too since it seems to confirm the newish data on the Big Bang theory.

5 – The fact that Mohamad could NEVER have memorized all the date in the Qu'ran, not even in 23 years or so and that proof he was good is that all Muslims have thought so since he appeared on the scene. If he had been bad, then people would have rejected him. I assume he must have been very clever for sure.

6 – These same professors tells me that it says in the Qu'ran that the earth has the shape of an egg. Was this known before Mohamad? They told me no one had such knowledge at the time in the Middle East, etc..

7 – Islam is a growing religion, how can you explain that people are leaving Christianity, etc…

8 – I read that they were many versions of the Qu'ran originally. The problem is they seem to mention mostly spelling mistakes, which doesn't mean a thing since people can't always spell, we are all by definition human beings, but do they show contradictions in the Qu'ran? They do mention that a Yes could be a No, etc. Pretty major, I guess, but anything else. Where is the proof, as in, where are the original documents since they are not prepared to accept the net and they HATE your site because it is so obviously anti Muslim... I NEED to show them that their Qu'ran has several versions which apparently are still published. I read somewhere that 7 versions were kept, some were burned, and so on.

9 – Could Mohamad have compiled the Qu'ran with poets, Christian monks, scientists at the time. Do you think it was feasible and if so, how can I have proof of this, not on the net again...+ They tell me you can' trust history, it was rewritten. How handy…

10- Some sites say Mohamad could read or write. Any proof of this? Tangible, not speculation about him running a business therefore he must have known basics.

11 – The Qu'ran says as you know better than me that if we don't believe in it then we should try to produce a Surah or anything like it? To the best of your knowledge, is there better poetry than the Qu'ran? And has anyone produced better just to prove the Qu'ran wrong? I am a writer and I've published poetry but I don't speak Arabic well enough to judge and never will. I'm typing this in bed next to my husband and at the speed of light because although he won't mind if I am not a Muslim, he won't be delighted either.. So forgive me my spelling mistakes and poor style, it's past 4 am and I'm throwing all this at you without time to read again.

12 - We are made from clay, mud, earth, etc the Qu'ran say. I am told that the elements in earth are the same as in DNA. So this doesn't go against the theory of evolution which they accept. Is this so? Are the 4 chemicals of our DNA also found in earth, clay, etc. They also say the Qu'ran mentions other species before us. Evolution btw doesnt disprove the existence of God as Darwin thought. See book 'the Language of God' for example. But the point is, is clay like DNA, does the Qu'ran really mentions the theory of evolution?

You may ask why I don't want to be a Muslim? Apart from the reason I gave when I introduced myself briefly, I don't want to be a Muslim because the whole thing smells fishy to me. There are of course many reasons to do with the Qu'ran itself, but let's say that if I am to find a faith for myself, I have to feel it's right, well I don't feel the Qu'ran is right for me. I may remain a believer without a religion, or find another. The point right now for me is to prove these points and any other you think they may raise.

Thank you for your website. I wish like some other people whose comments I saw that you would try not to appear so anti Muslim. Why? Because to appeal to Muslims and others, it's always better not to start with a confrontation. Your knowledge and logic are sufficient and what matters to convince people. I ignored your site for a long time because of its aggressive tone. I understand it but I think it works against your goal more than for it.
It's easy to criticize, of course, and what you have done remains impressive work.
Thank you for your help if you decide to give me some of your time.

Best regards

Emma

[Anti-Jihad]

Is this James3/4 one more time ?
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[katlike]

[ixolite]

Check the stickies in our resource centre and our WikiIslam, you should find everything what you need there.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=32
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Main_Page

['Nuf_Already]

Hi and welcome.

Doesn't it strike you as devious that muslims only find cures and scientific explanations only after these have been found by somebody else – almost always by non-muslims?

Is there anything in there about travelling at the speed of light? What about malaria? No? How about dementia, Parkinson's or even testicular cancer?

Ask your friends, the muslim professors and scholars (an oxymoron in itself) if they can find a cure for baldness in them divine verses and post them here – I'm going a bit thin on top and would become a devout follower of the cult of mohammad the instant it works its miracles on me.

quaran is a sham. Mr Mo was a charlatan on top of being a genocidal racist paedophile. He lifted the Old Testament and plagiarised it into his quaran.

And thats the truth.
_________________
Vote Labour, Get Sharia.

Labour government is a government for muslims. A Tory government will be a government for islam.

Daub your ballot paper with profanity but do not waste your vote on any of these islamic arse lickers.

[chingachgook]

[yeezevee]

[kereng]

[ibn_rushd2]

I didn't read your questions, but I understand that you're looking for some info on science in the Quran. Abul Kasem, one of our resident writers wrote this back in April 2001: $cience in Quran.
_________________
The following tale of alien encounters is true. By true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies--and, in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is no.

Leonard Nimoy, hosting The Simpsons

[emma67]

First thank you to all of you who replied to me, but I need to dig deeper than this. I need to prove my points. So here are the points your answers are raising for me and I will be very grateful to all of you if you can be more specific. Help me out of this, I do not know enough about religion, history, or science to answer all my questions.
1- Quote Anti-Jihad Facts for you. There is only 1 country in the world, that comes even close to Shariah law and it is Saudi.

This doesn't prove anything. There are different schools of thoughts. Take Egyptians who state that parts of the Qu'ran refer to older times (specific events which can be traced back) and parts which belong to all times. This sounds reasonable to me, although let me repeat, I am NOT a Muslim. I'm simply trying to shed light on this religion to find my God and a sense of peace. I am EXHAUSTED.

2 katlike You tell me "they" say a lot. I have bolded everything that you've told me they say. Have you bothered to ask them to prove what "they" say?

Of course, I have bothered to ask them to prove what they say. I'm not sweet 16 or completely stupid. They gave me a CD mentioning various passages from the Qu'ran and the Bible, they quoted from the Qu'ran, I have many books from Muslim Professors about various issues, etc..
katlike
The Bible proves that the next Prophet will be Mohamad.
Prove it to me then


Their point is a real problem for me because I found several passages which tend to prove their points. A typical example would be the following which they quoted. This 1 is tricky as are a few others in the Bible which imply the next prophet would come from within the brotherhood of the Jews without being Jewish, but from the same root and Mohamad is just that. Also as these Muslims say, the fact that the belief in Allah and Mohamad is very long lasting. They also say that if Mohamad was the real prophet, then it's been so long since Jesus, what is God waiting for? Also that the false prophet will arrive only a few years before the end of the world so it cannot be Mohamad. GRRR!!!!! Help me!!!
DEURERONOMIOM 18/15
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers; you shall hear him. ETC...And the Lord said to me: They are right in all that they have said. I will raise up for them a prophet just like you from among their brothers, and I will give my word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them whatever I command him. And the person who doesn't hear his words, whatever the prophet may speak in my name, I will exact vengeance from him. But the prophet who actis impiously by speaking a word in my name that I have not ordered to speak and who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. But if you say to your heart 'How will we know the word that the Lord has not spoken? whatever the prophet might speak in the name of the Lord but the thing does not take place and does not happen, this is the word that the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken it in impiety. you

Regarding Mountains, I have books written my Muslim professors proving the veracity of the fact that Mountains hold the earth, it doesn't exclude the movements of the earth giving rise to mountains, etc. GRRR, again!!!!
I find everything and its opposite. One proves, one disproves, they're all playing tennis!


If he had been bad, then people would have rejected him. I assume he must have been very clever for sure.

Their point here is that not one Muslim according to Muslims, of course ever said anything bad about Mohamad at the time. If he had been bad, there would have been a leak at some point, but there wasn't.

These same professors tells me that it says in the Qu'ran that the earth has the shape of an egg. Was this known before Mohamad? They told me no one had such knowledge at the time in the Middle East, etc..
I was read this passage and I can find it. It is in the Qu'ran. What it actually says is that the earth is like a ball that wouldn't roll perfectly well because of its shape.

3 Ixolite

I don't agree with being rude. There are nice people from any religion, including atheism (which is a form of belief too). I have met nice Muslims, Christians, etc, and of course stupid ones too. But being rude never proves a point though I can understand and sometimes get this way myself when I get frustrated with the whole idea.
As to Aisha, apparently she only ever had nice things to say about Mohamad. Yet, I still don't know what Muslims have to say about Mohamad marrying her at such a young age, etc. It does sound disgusting from a distance.

4 'Nuf_Already
Is there anything in there about travelling at the speed of light? What about malaria? No? How about dementia, Parkinson's or even testicular cancer?

Ask your friends, the muslim professors and scholars (an oxymoron in itself) if they can find a cure for baldness in them divine verses and post them here – I'm going a bit thin on top and would become a devout follower of the cult of mohammad the instant it works its miracles on me.


The idea for Muslims is not that everything is contained in the Qu'ran but it can apply to all times. Some parts which may have applied only to a specific time in history may crop up again so they are not to be neglected. The Qu'ran doesn't mention cars either or computers, etc. This is besides the point. Though my feeling tends to head towards your conclusion. It's a copy of the Bible with some changes, etc…

5 Chingachgook
I don't really see the connection between scientific facts with divine origin.


The idea is that many scientists are agreeing that we have reached the limits of science in the respect that we cannot go further than the Big Bang. Even atheists believe in some moral code of law. How did the Big Bang occur? According to many scientists, it happened in such a way that it can only be of divine origin. It's impossible for it to have happened any other way. I suggest reading The Language of God for more about this, it's a good book because this scientist constantly goes through all possible arguments with every assertion he makes.

6 Yeezevee

Thank you. I'm really looking forward to your replies.

7 Kereng
What the HELL did Keith Moore made these comments about the Qu'ran in the first place?
Your reply Kereng: Money is my guess.


Most probably yes, but when? When he first said the Qu'ran was right or when he stopped talking about it so much? Who paid him? Maybe both sides after all. Really hard to prove this point.

Qu'ran states that in that chapter that they are like the passing of clouds, in other words, to them, this proves the earth MOVED, but we don't feel it because the mountains etc seem static.

The koran does not say that the mountains are moving now but that they will be moving on judgement day. And mountains are not moving like clouds. They are moving like the rest of the land.

The point here is to show that if mountains are attached to the earth and that they move like the passing clouds, this means that the earth also moves. Not that the mountains move in the same way of the clouds. The idea is the movement. The earth isn't static, it turns. I'm still stuck with this, I read the passage in 2 English versions and I can't say that what the Qu'ran states is wrong. Of course maybe others said such things before, say the Greeks, but what proof do we have + the fact that some Muslims tend to say this is a conspiracy against Islam, that at the time so few were educated in the Arabic world, how could Mohamad and a bunch of other guys have known all this and even if so, then how come no one every doubted this? Again, there was no leak, they say because no one had any reason to disbelieve Mohamad.

10- Some sites say Mohamad could read or write. Any proof of this?

There is no proof that he lived at all

Are you sure about this? Please give me prove of this, it's really major.

8 ibn_rushd2

thank you, I am going to read this.



Finally, thank you to everyone again. I'm still with my dilemma, how to prove Islam is wrong, wondering if I ever will manage it. I need FACTS, PROOFS. The rest is thin air.

My regards to everyone

Emma

[truth seeker]

[DSingh]

Hello James1/2/3/4 whoever you are. If you like polygamy, being covered in a tent as well as following a virtueous "prophet" whose mind seemed to be full of sex more then anything else (judging by the number of wives), then you are indeed on the right path as you don't see anything wrong with it. You need not ask us to prove it wrong, as this is your moral level.

Also remember, leave Islam = treason = punishable by death. You may wonder well what proof is that? Have a look at the cultures in the middle east. Thing about western women is, they have the CHOICE if they want to be treated as sex toys. Yarr.

If someone please can provide the Quranic verses where treason = death, I'm to lazy to sift through garbage.
_________________

[ixolite]

[Musti]

[ibn_rushd2]

Excellent video about Bucaille.
_________________
The following tale of alien encounters is true. By true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies--and, in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is no.

Leonard Nimoy, hosting The Simpsons