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BlackStaR
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 1252
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
| I fail to see the funny part. Anyhow BlackStar aren't you Hindu yourself? |
Yes freepower, I am indeed a Hindu. When one talk about god or god(s), it often comes to a point where faith overrides reason. Being a hindu I question every aspect and avenues and there is no such thing as blasphemy in hinduism. There is no taboo's that spell certain hellfire or death if you question god in hinduism.
The article from truthseeker makes god look like a fool. for instance
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2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain |
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Fair enough. I too agree to it. But how do we equate our own existence with the possibility of a " god" existing????? In hinduism, rig veda quotes that " if you will realize yourself when you see god in every beings" It didnt say that , god sits in heaven, rests after 6 days of hardwork creating things and then sends his good and evil minions to seduce poor souls to commit atrocities,the prepare 7 types of hell and 7 types of heavens and all these pointless rewards etc etc.. I can name it all day long.
So when we see from a minimalist point of view, if GOD exists, then someone or something must have created it! It is logical to ask such questions.
_________________
</islam> </MohaMutt- (SBUH)- Shoe Be Upon Him >
... I am the Chill in the air..... |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| BlackStaR wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
| I fail to see the funny part. Anyhow BlackStar aren't you Hindu yourself? |
Yes freepower, I am indeed a Hindu. When one talk about god or god(s), it often comes to a point where faith overrides reason. Being a hindu I question every aspect and avenues and there is no such thing as blasphemy in hinduism. There is no taboo's that spell certain hellfire or death if you question god in hinduism.
The article from truthseeker makes god look like a fool. for instance
| Quote: |
2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain |
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Fair enough. I too agree to it. But how do we equate our own existence with the possibility of a " god" existing????? In hinduism, rig veda quotes that " if you will realize yourself when you see god in every beings" It didnt say that , god sits in heaven, rests after 6 days of hardwork creating things and then sends his good and evil minions to seduce poor souls to commit atrocities,the prepare 7 types of hell and 7 types of heavens and all these pointless rewards etc etc.. I can name it all day long.
So when we see from a minimalist point of view, if GOD exists, then someone or something must have created it! It is logical to ask such questions. |
Very logical yet Hinduism has gods, and an universal deity whom created the gods. Who created him? Who created the reincarnation process? What happens if you accumulate so much bad karma that you return as a mineral such as iron and someone turns you into a spoon or a fork? I too see things in Hinduism that cannot be explained. I much rather worship one God then worship people or cars as gods. Its very funny to criticize another's beliefs but take the plank out of your eye before you start to notice the eyelash in mine.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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Radagast
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 5282
Location: aka Righteous
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| I will also give you some information with regard to logic & mathematics in connection with prophesy. This is absolute mathematical fact, though as I have said earlier in my post, It is up to you to accept. If you do not wish to do so, that's up to you, but this is absolute mathematical fact. |
No it isn't. It is an abuse of statistics.
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Recently I purchased a book entitled What the Odds Are. It's an A-Z collection of the odds on "everything you ever hoped or feared could happen".
For instance, did you know that the odds of your being injured by a lightning strike on any given day are only 1 in 250 million, but over the average lifetime are 1 in 9,100? In contrast, the odds that the average citizen of Washington, D.C. will get "plugged, stabbed, poisoned, or bludgeoned to death" in the course of a year are only 1 in 1,681!
........ |
Stage 1... set the scene. Swamp with so much data that the mind is overwhelmed. (Hopefully, by the end of this stage, the reader would be saying "Wow".... not to whether God exists, but in sheer amazement of unknown but unconnected facts.)
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| If you still happen to be unconvinced that the baby born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago was anything more than just an ordinary human baby, let me challenge you with a few of "the odds" in that regard. |
Stage 2.... issue the challenge. Turn the issue from whether the odds are valid to whether the reader is silly to disbelieve.
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| To begin with, did you know that the Old Testament prophet Micah, writing circa 700 B.C., out of the hundreds and hundreds of cities in the scores and scores of nations in existence all over the world even in those days, designated Bethlehem of Judea as the birthplace of the Messiah (Micah 5:2)? |
Along the way... withhold facts and evidence. Micah is a book in the Old Testament and came from the Jews. If at all, its original intent refers to a Messiah who was to be the King of Israel. And one of the reasons Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah is he didn't fulfill the requirements of being the Messiah.
In other words, convenient reinterpretation. (Which coincidentally is what Muslims do with the Quran with respect to science).
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| And that at about the same time, Isaiah (7:14) said that the Christ would be born of a virgin? |
Confuse real facts with facts from the very same material the author is attempt to prove. It is presupposition.
The funny thing is that if you accept virgin births as a possibility, then all this would be moot.
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| Or that a prophecy made in 1012 B.C. specified that the Messiah's hands and feet would eventually be pierced--a clear reference to death by crucifixion--800 years before the Romans ever even instituted crucifixion as a form of capital punishment! |
An unnamed prophecy. Funny about that!
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| Malachi 3:1, penned in about 425 B.C., specified that the Messiah would be contemporary with the temple in Jerusalem--a temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. and has never been rebuilt. |
Except that the Messiah as defined by the Jews hadn't come yet.
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| Well, if all this impresses you even a little bit, |
So far... it hasn't.
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A number of years ago, Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman wrote a book entitled Science Speaks. The book was based on the science of probability and vouched for by the American Scientific Affiliation. It set out the odds of any one man in all of history fulfilling even only eight of the 60 major prophecies (and 270 ramifications) fulfilled by the life of Christ.
The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That's 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000. |
This is so funny, but simultaneously sad in a way. Sad because of the deceit that is embedded within the argument. I say this because the argument is built on the presupposition that those prophecies were actually fulfilled in the first place (see above for the prophecy about the Messiah and Micah 5:2).
1. Now, if you believe in Christianity in the first place, then almost without doubt, you would believe that the prophecies were fulfilled.
2. Conversely, if you do not believe that the prophecies were fulfilled, you would probably not be a Christian. (Self-evident).
3. But this argument is trying to convince you to be a Christian (or at least making a case for Christianity) by presupposing that those prophecies were fulfilled. Isn't that what the author is trying to convince you in the first place ie. that the Christianity is true and that the prophecies were fulfilled?
Now, if you doubt that those prophecies were fulfilled, then the probability would be 0 x 10^17 ie. exactly zero.
The legerdemain here is to substitute the argument whether those prophecies are indeed fulfilled, to one about the odds of the prophecies. In the interim, the reader has already probably forgotten that those prophecies are probably not true in the first place.
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| Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I've been to Texas. I've driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000? |
Just in case the anesthetic has worn off, the author reverts back to stage 1... keep the mind bamboozled by filling it with useless junk.
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This was just for 8 prophesies to be fulfilled, but Jesus fulfilled in his lifetime over 300 prophesies. In only 48 prophecies "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 propecies to be 1 in 10 to the power of 157, or 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. |
Wow! If only it were true!
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| The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 10 to the power of 79. |
Impressive isn't it? If you even had one electron in your brain left that is still moving, you would be, right?
Conclusion: abuse of statistics and a giant argument from presupposition.
Rgds
R
_________________
"You are, after all, an atheist. Religion is hardly your forte." Fathom 2008
"Therefore, since "Christ the Messiah" was a Jew, Josephus would have no grounds to consider it heretical" Fathom 2008. |
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Radagast
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 5282
Location: aka Righteous
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Whew... another load of BS to get through... but here goes....
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| So just because someone believes in God, that does not mean that someone who does not, have any rights to call, insult, humiliate or discredit them in any way shape or form. |
You feel strongly enough to put your cards on the table, probably in the hope to convince those who are in the market to be swayed. Don't be surprised if others also feel strongly enough to attempt to discredit. Nothing you say should be sacrosanct.
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| But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. |
Isn't it the other way around? That the lack of a rational explanation nor presence of compelling evidence leads to the conclusion that there is no possibility of there being a God?
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| It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. |
That's not the same because you can furnish compelling evidence that someone actually walked on the moon. A skeptic of moon landing in the presence of compelling evidence is of course not rational. But skepticism in the absence of compelling evidence is very rational. Some might say that that was the only intellectually justifiable stance.
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| Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon. |
Okay... show us your photographs of God, interviews with angels, evidence returned from a "paradise" visit.
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| When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider... |
How anybody can be convinced of such silly argument is beyond me. It is like saying that those who want to believe will believe. And those who don't want to believe won't believe. Completely unhelpful at all and a non-argument. In fact, wanting to believe is the wrong reason for belief.
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| 1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few: The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. |
Besides the obviously flawed science (ie. that a smaller Earth precludes an atmosphere), this is just a restatement of the anthropic principle. There are no designer nor are there evidence of a conscious designer. There are biological features that are obviously not designed but are mere carried features from our evolutionary past.
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| It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees. Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5 Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees. Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter. Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6 |
This is a pretty poor argument albeit scientists once held that water was the prerequisite of life. Nowadays, the possibility that life would be based on different biochemistry (eg. nitrogen, phosphorus or silicon biochemistry) and different solvents (eg. ammonia) is accepted.
This argument is also weak because it is like saying that since we live in a world based on water, then life is impossible without water. It is like saying that since one lives in a red house, then nobody else can live in a house of a different color.
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| 2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it. |
Nonsequitur. Also, the human brain's complexity is just a result of evolution.
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3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.
The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. |
Oh no.... trotting out probability of independent events again, even though life isn't independent!
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| But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. |
No. That is not what he even attempted to Prove. He proved that microbes do not come from spontaneous generation. He did not prove that life cannot come from non-life.
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| Where did human, animal, plant life come from? Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intelectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck. |
It is actually intellectually wanting to simply assert that something unknown caused all the unexplainable.
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| 4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God. |
So what???? Argumentum ad populum.
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| If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"? |
Because I don't believe in argumentum ad populum. Furthermore, skepticism is the default position if there are no evidence to shift one's position. That is the same reason you don't believe that there are tooth-fairies even though nobody has proven that they don't exist, right?
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| 5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. |
Did you get a personal call from him constantly initiating and seeking for you to come to him?
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| 6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us. |
Well, well, well... another petitio principii - presumption that God already exists.
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| Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. |
And yet you disbelieve all those other charlatans who also claimed they were equal to God. Why is that? Because just because they said so, doesn't mean it is true.
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| 8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. |
And that convinced you? Hey... just go into the mental asylum and you will see many people claiming to have attributes belonging only to God, or Hitler, or Napolean, or ....
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| I was once told that if a person does believe & when they have died & it does turn out to be true, then they have everything to gain. But if they again believe it all to be true & then when they have died, it is not true. Then they have lost nothing. But if you look at that same thing the other way round, if the person does not believe & then they die & it turns out to be true, they will have lost everything. So I believe that its worth putting a little thought too, don't you? |
Pascal's wager is not a convincing argument at all. It is a fallacious argument. Because the argument asserts that believing in a God when it is false is costless when it clearly isn't. A wasted life is a large cost to bear.
Secondly, which God? Thirdly, I'd rather not believe in a God that would be petty enough to blame me for his lack of presence, when the very same system of skepticism led me to not be convinced of all the other Gods that paraded in the same lineup. Presumably, such a God, if he existed, would have built in the skepticism circuit in my brain to aid me to reject those false Gods in the first place.
_________________
"You are, after all, an atheist. Religion is hardly your forte." Fathom 2008
"Therefore, since "Christ the Messiah" was a Jew, Josephus would have no grounds to consider it heretical" Fathom 2008. |
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BlackStaR
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 1252
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Very logical yet Hinduism has gods, and an universal deity whom created the gods. Who created him? |
Can you name this universal diety please? Hindu concept of gods are the same or equivalent to your god or Allah or the gods dreamt upon by Abraham or Moses. Thats where the similarities end. Higher level hindu philosophy knows the ultimate form of existence is nothing but energy. Boundless energies that change forms every minute every seconds every nano seconds. The very energy that rule the universe. And IN actual fact, NO ONE knows who it is! BUT we acknowledge it. Science acknowledge the potential of energies. Perhaps this is maybe an unknown force of energy yet to be identified by us.
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| Who created the reincarnation process? What happens if you accumulate so much bad karma that you return as a mineral such as iron and someone turns you into a spoon or a fork? |
SORRY, you have a terrible understanding of the karmic process. Souls dont turn into forks or spoons. The energies must keep flowing to its enlightened form.
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| I too see things in Hinduism that cannot be explained. I much rather worship one God then worship people or cars as gods. |
What cant you explain about hinduism? There is no membership to be involved in one. There is no hell fire waiting for you. There is no eternal rewards if you submit to the god. There will be no painful torture of your soul if you fail to acknowledge this gods's existence, there is no people to ostracize you if you came out or people to chop off your heads if you apostatize...... bla bla.. So , what cant you handle about hinduism?? It is super easy.
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Its very funny to criticize another's beliefs but take the plank out of your eye before you start to notice the eyelash in mine.
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AH HA... BUT THEN AGAIN, WE HAVE MANY MANY GODS AND NO MISUNDERSTANDINGS BETWEEN BELIEVERS. You have ONE god and incredible murders under that one so called gods name. Sigh!
Another thing.. yes, criticizing is super easy. But must criticize with style.
_________________
</islam> </MohaMutt- (SBUH)- Shoe Be Upon Him >
... I am the Chill in the air..... |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BlackStaR wrote: |
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| Very logical yet Hinduism has gods, and an universal deity whom created the gods. Who created him? |
Can you name this universal diety please? Hindu concept of gods are the same or equivalent to your god or Allah or the gods dreamt upon by Abraham or Moses. Thats where the similarities end. Higher level hindu philosophy knows the ultimate form of existence is nothing but energy. Boundless energies that change forms every minute every seconds every nano seconds. The very energy that rule the universe. And IN actual fact, NO ONE knows who it is! BUT we acknowledge it. Science acknowledge the potential of energies. Perhaps this is maybe an unknown force of energy yet to be identified by us.
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| Who created the reincarnation process? What happens if you accumulate so much bad karma that you return as a mineral such as iron and someone turns you into a spoon or a fork? |
SORRY, you have a terrible understanding of the karmic process. Souls dont turn into forks or spoons. The energies must keep flowing to its enlightened form.
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| I too see things in Hinduism that cannot be explained. I much rather worship one God then worship people or cars as gods. |
What cant you explain about hinduism? There is no membership to be involved in one. There is no hell fire waiting for you. There is no eternal rewards if you submit to the god. There will be no painful torture of your soul if you fail to acknowledge this gods's existence, there is no people to ostracize you if you came out or people to chop off your heads if you apostatize...... bla bla.. So , what cant you handle about hinduism?? It is super easy.
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Its very funny to criticize another's beliefs but take the plank out of your eye before you start to notice the eyelash in mine.
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AH HA... BUT THEN AGAIN, WE HAVE MANY MANY GODS AND NO MISUNDERSTANDINGS BETWEEN BELIEVERS. You have ONE god and incredible murders under that one so called gods name. Sigh!
Another thing.. yes, criticizing is super easy. But must criticize with style. |
As far as I know don't Hindus believe in Brahmin an universal deity from which all gods and things are born? Anyhow don't act like you are part of a perfect religion, there are people who are considered untouchables because they are born into a certain cast and they are rejected by everyone because of a stupid title. Along with that Hindus have murdered others in the name of their religion. An extremist is horrible in any way, even if he is an atheist. If anyone who murders another and is Christian then he has totally missed the message of Jesus. If you don't like Christian doctrine or the concept of hell that is no reason to mock Christianity, because Hinduism is not perfect either.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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mrcommonsensenow
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
Call it arrogance if you wish, however every person is entitled to their views, unless it starts harming other people.
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Entitled to their views, unless it starts harming other people? Very good!
So you agree with Separation of church and state?
Federal funds for fetal cell research?
A woman’s right to choose?
Civil unions?
Birth control?
Sex education?
Against "under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance?
Against Christian dogma in public schools?
_________________
It is not logical to believe that the same God who has allegedly endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mrcommonsensenow wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
Call it arrogance if you wish, however every person is entitled to their views, unless it starts harming other people.
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Entitled to their views, unless it starts harming other people? Very good!
So you agree with Separation of church and state?
Federal funds for fetal cell research?
A woman’s right to choose?
Civil unions?
Birth control?
Sex education?
Against "under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance?
Against Christian dogma in public schools? |
The only thing I'd have a problem against would be the fetal research. Truly I have no problem with the others. What kind of person do you think I am? I am not a Christian extremist or anything of that sort, and if thats your view of a Christian then you are very badly mistaken.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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mrcommonsensenow
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
The only thing I'd have a problem against would be the fetal research.
Why?
Truly I have no problem with the others.
Good to hear. 
What kind of person do you think I am? I am not a Christian extremist or anything of that sort, and if thats your view of a Christian then you are very badly mistaken. |
Come on freepower,  do you honestly beleive most Christians in the U.S. are as reasonable as you are? 
_________________
It is not logical to believe that the same God who has allegedly endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| mrcommonsensenow wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
The only thing I'd have a problem against would be the fetal research.
Why?
Truly I have no problem with the others.
Good to hear.
What kind of person do you think I am? I am not a Christian extremist or anything of that sort, and if thats your view of a Christian then you are very badly mistaken. |
Come on freepower, do you honestly beleive most Christians in the U.S. are as reasonable as you are? |
Well I consider a fetus to be alive and even though it is not a person I think it deserves more dignity then being killed for the sake of research. I guess it goes back to an abortion video I saw of a fetus trying to get away from the vacuum the doctor was holding. It was fighting for its life. So I have some personal views on this issue.
I know there are MANY Christians who believe their views are superior to others and that they alone deserve to be in charge but I highly disagree with that. For example Church and State don't mix in my opinion. As for religion being taken in school, I don't believe that it should be banned but instead they should give a course on world religions for the students to learn about them.
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The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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Radagast
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 5282
Location: aka Righteous
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
| As for religion being taken in school, I don't believe that it should be banned but instead they should give a course on world religions for the students to learn about them. |
Unfortunately, most people who have no problems with religion in school tend to have no problems when THEIR particular brand is taught, but object to every other brand. Just imagine, if Islam were to be taught in schools in America. After all, it does meet the requirement that "religion is taught in schools", right? Apparently, the right kind of religion can be taught but the wrong kind cannot, with the obvious answer that the right kind of religion must coincidentally be the one they subscribe to. This is because every theist are absolutely convinced that their religion is the right one, right?
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"You are, after all, an atheist. Religion is hardly your forte." Fathom 2008
"Therefore, since "Christ the Messiah" was a Jew, Josephus would have no grounds to consider it heretical" Fathom 2008. |
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BlackStaR
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 1252
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| As far as I know don't Hindus believe in Brahmin an universal deity from which all gods and things are born? Anyhow don't act like you are part of a perfect religion, there are people who are considered untouchables because they are born into a certain cast and they are rejected by everyone because of a stupid title. Along with that Hindus have murdered others in the name of their religion. An extremist is horrible in any way, even if he is an atheist. If anyone who murders another and is Christian then he has totally missed the message of Jesus. If you don't like Christian doctrine or the concept of hell that is no reason to mock Christianity, because Hinduism is not perfect either. |
free,
As far as you know, YOU dont know a single thing about hinduism. The concept of the cosmic energy is only found in hinduism. The rest are just merely gods and goddesses, angels etc etc.
Take time to read and understand the hindu philosophy. It is not going to make you convert into hinduism as hinduism has hardly anything to make make people change everything about themselves like changing their names, the way they dress, they way they put on beards etc etc.
Being perfect is not the question here. I never once told anyone here that hinduism is the only truth. Throughout its existence, many different schools of thoughts had entered into it and many was created out of it. IT also created a more flexible environ for its practitioners.
If you go to india someday, I want you to witness where casteism can be seen with your own two eyes. In the meantime, dont assume on things you dont know.
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</islam> </MohaMutt- (SBUH)- Shoe Be Upon Him >
... I am the Chill in the air..... |
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mrcommonsensenow
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well I consider a fetus to be alive and even though it is not a person I think it deserves more dignity then being killed for the sake of research.
No one is talking about a fetus being killed for the sake of research. For example, women with serious medical problems undergo hysterectomies. Not uncommonly, they are in various phases of pregnancy at the time of their hysterectomies. Embryonic and fetal cells are present in these cases. Women also undergo abortion because of a non-viable embryo or fetus.
I guess it goes back to an abortion video I saw of a fetus trying to get away from the vacuum the doctor was holding. It was fighting for its life. So I have some personal views on this issue.
JESUS!  You just reminded me of an anti-drug film I was forced to watch in high school. Among many horrific scenes, they showed a dead guy that had perforated the wall of bone behind his nose with his cocaine use, causing the protective membrane around his brain to stick out his nose like a pink balloon. 
I know there are MANY Christians who believe their views are superior to others and that they alone deserve to be in charge but I highly disagree with that. For example Church and State don't mix in my opinion. As for religion being taken in school, I don't believe that it should be banned but instead they should give a course on world religions for the students to learn about them.
I have no problem with this as long as it’s done in a social studies format.
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It is not logical to believe that the same God who has allegedly endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. |
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chiplee
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| BlackStaR wrote: |
| Quote: |
| As far as I know don't Hindus believe in Brahmin an universal deity from which all gods and things are born? Anyhow don't act like you are part of a perfect religion, there are people who are considered untouchables because they are born into a certain cast and they are rejected by everyone because of a stupid title. Along with that Hindus have murdered others in the name of their religion. An extremist is horrible in any way, even if he is an atheist. If anyone who murders another and is Christian then he has totally missed the message of Jesus. If you don't like Christian doctrine or the concept of hell that is no reason to mock Christianity, because Hinduism is not perfect either. |
free,
As far as you know, YOU dont know a single thing about hinduism. The concept of the cosmic energy is only found in hinduism. The rest are just merely gods and goddesses, angels etc etc.
Take time to read and understand the hindu philosophy. It is not going to make you convert into hinduism as hinduism has hardly anything to make make people change everything about themselves like changing their names, the way they dress, they way they put on beards etc etc.
Being perfect is not the question here. I never once told anyone here that hinduism is the only truth. Throughout its existence, many different schools of thoughts had entered into it and many was created out of it. IT also created a more flexible environ for its practitioners.
If you go to india someday, I want you to witness where casteism can be seen with your own two eyes. In the meantime, dont assume on things you dont know. |
yeah, and this from the cat (freepower) who said he "took a good hard look" at all major world religions before deciding "on merit" to believe as his parents believe. And yet he sees nothing strange about the coincidence, and doesn't seem to suspect that he'd be Muslim if he'd been born on Islamic land.
The disproof of all world religions should require no more than a "religion by geography" comparison.
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"[The Bible] has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies." Mark Twain
"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod |
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