¿ G O D ?

[chiplee]

[BlackStaR]

[chiplee]

[FreePower]

I have no idea how both of you managed to build so many conclusions on a single statement of mine. I simply implied that before the universe it was just God, no creator. The problem with athiests is that they try to find loopholes in every single aspect of life.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

[chiplee]

[FreePower]

[chiplee]

[BlackStaR]

[FreePower]

I do not know who created God. And chiplee I would advise you to stop judging people based on your small life experience. While I am at peace with myself it does not mean that I sit on my ass the whole day. I volunteer in places, I give money to charity and I try to do my best to help those around me. As I said if you don't believe in God why do you still blame him for all the evil in the world? Sounds like you are just a frustrated human being. You think you know how I feel, but I believe you have no idea, and you won't until you build a real relationship with God, then perhaps you can understand how I feel.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

[chiplee]

[FreePower]

[chiplee]

[FreePower]

[BlackStaR]

LET me put truthseekers post in perspective here. ( btw.. I had a good laugh reading it!!!)


For proof, though I am sure it will not be accepted as anyone who has such a hatred against the word of God, no matter how much proof, evidence & facts are given to them, they will not, nor ever accept that truth. I will give you here a few sites giving that proof as you ask, this is proven actual proof that the Bible is what it says it is, it is then up to you to accept that truth or not. If you do not accept it, that's up to you, all we have done is to show you that truth, but I will say this one thing to you. Have we in any way attacked what you believe, the answer is no we have not, we have just posted what we believe & what is in the word of God the Bible. So can you please tell me why you have come on this thread with such an attack on us. We have not asked for that attack & as I have said we have not attacked you. So if you are one of these who have such a hatred of God that you take every chance you can to attack anyone with a belief in God. Then I have to say that you have one hell of a problem & that you can not be that comfortable within yourself that you have to attack others to settle your own thoughts & mind. Here are the sites:
http://www.creatingfutures.net/validity.html

http://www.carm.org/dialogues/proof.htm

http://www.thercg.org/bics/rcgbic-004.html

http://www.thercg.org/books/bacibp.html

http://www.creatingfutures.net/archaelogical.html

I will also give you some information with regard to logic & mathematics in connection with prophesy. This is absolute mathematical fact, though as I have said earlier in my post, It is up to you to accept. If you do not wish to do so, that's up to you, but this is absolute mathematical fact.

Recently I purchased a book entitled What the Odds Are. It's an A-Z collection of the odds on "everything you ever hoped or feared could happen".

For instance, did you know that the odds of your being injured by a lightning strike on any given day are only 1 in 250 million, but over the average lifetime are 1 in 9,100? In contrast, the odds that the average citizen of Washington, D.C. will get "plugged, stabbed, poisoned, or bludgeoned to death" in the course of a year are only 1 in 1,681!
One in 10 Americans read the Bible daily. One in two eat out somewhere every single day of the week--1 in 20 at McDonald's. In Sweden, 40 of every one hundred persons are senior citizens; in Fiji, only 1 in 50. And here's one that really amazed me: 1 in every 24 Americans has membership in the National Geographic Society. I guess it figures, though, because I noticed recently that a staggering 9,975,558 average copies of the National Geographic magazine are printed by the Society every month (including those intended for international distribution).

If you still happen to be unconvinced that the baby born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago was anything more than just an ordinary human baby, let me challenge you with a few of "the odds" in that regard.

To begin with, did you know that the Old Testament prophet Micah, writing circa 700 B.C., out of the hundreds and hundreds of cities in the scores and scores of nations in existence all over the world even in those days, designated Bethlehem of Judea as the birthplace of the Messiah (Micah 5:2)?

And that at about the same time, Isaiah (7:14) said that the Christ would be born of a virgin?

Or that a prophecy made in 1012 B.C. specified that the Messiah's hands and feet would eventually be pierced--a clear reference to death by crucifixion--800 years before the Romans ever even instituted crucifixion as a form of capital punishment!

Malachi 3:1, penned in about 425 B.C., specified that the Messiah would be contemporary with the temple in Jerusalem--a temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. and has never been rebuilt.

Well, if all this impresses you even a little bit, you ought to go compare Zechariah 11:11-13 (written over 500 years before Christ) to Matthew 27:3-10 (written some 25-30 years after Christ). Only coincidence?

A number of years ago, Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman wrote a book entitled Science Speaks. The book was based on the science of probability and vouched for by the American Scientific Affiliation. It set out the odds of any one man in all of history fulfilling even only eight of the 60 major prophecies (and 270 ramifications) fulfilled by the life of Christ.

The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That's 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000.

Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I've been to Texas. I've driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000?

This was just for 8 prophesies to be fulfilled, but Jesus fulfilled in his lifetime over 300 prophesies. In only 48 prophecies "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10 to the power of 157, or 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 10 to the power of 79. So can you imagine what the odds are for Jesus to have fulfilled over 300 prophesies, that is such a large figure, its beyond belief & as for the amount of prophesies that are in the Bible, that is about 2500 & of those 2500, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors. This is again a proven fact but not published that much, but I will not here give you that evidence, if you want that then you do the searches. I have given you more than enough evidence, facts & proof needed for your request about proof Lyzandra Daria.

As for our very own dear ahmed, yet again he shows his lack of knowledge of the Bible & what he does know he has only learned from his imams who have twisted the truth within its pages to mean what they want it to mean. If he did know what was in the Bible he would have know as Freepower has shown him about the basic Jewish tradition re: In Jewish law, if a man died childless, his brother was to marry the widow, and the first son born would legally be the dead man's heir (Deuteronomy 25:5-6). So his posts yet again show him up just for what he is, a brainwashed mobot who is intellectually bankrupt.


POst 2

It is down to each individual person to believe in what ever they so wish, that is why we all have free will. So just because someone believes in God, that does not mean that someone who does not, have any rights to call, insult, humiliate or discredit them in any way shape or form. That is there decision to believe in what they do, you have chosen yours, they have chosen there's, its that simple. If we where all the same then it would be a real boring place to be, we would all say the same things, know the same things & so believe the same things. So after saying all this I will post 6 reasons why to believe in God, as I say its up to the individual to make there own choice & that is there own decision to make & has nothing else to do with anyone else or what they may well think. If no one accepts or believes what someone else may well do, after that person has given information that they had considered adequate to prove there point, then that is up to them. So just because they do not accept of believe the same is no reason to insult, slur or try to discredit them in any way. for some one to try to do this then that person has a real problem with themselves & other people & so I would suggest that they get help for it.

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few: The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life. The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day. And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4 Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees. Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5 Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees. Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter. Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?

3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.
The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from? Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.

4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.
This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all. There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence -- arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life. I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them. I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England." Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father. He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me." 9 What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing. 10 Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us. Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."

11 This is God, in action. Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."12
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ.


So as I said at the start of this post, these are just reasons to consider that a belief in God may just be true. I was once told that if a person does believe & when they have died & it does turn out to be true, then they have everything to gain. But if they again believe it all to be true & then when they have died, it is not true. Then they have lost nothing. But if you look at that same thing the other way round, if the person does not believe & then they die & it turns out to be true, they will have lost everything. So I believe that its worth putting a little thought too, don't you?


Where I bolded, this is where you religious fundies lose your own argument. There is no such thing like everything to gain and nothing to lose. It is a question of what you have lost while you are still alive and kicking. No point talking about the dead.

Perhaps Radagast could be of help here, if he ever sees this topic.
_________________
</islam> </MohaMutt- (SBUH)- Shoe Be Upon Him >
... I am the Chill in the air.....

[FreePower]

I fail to see the funny part. Anyhow BlackStar aren't you Hindu yourself?
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”