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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
Innocence of the gullible? The video I posted contains much more scientific evidence than this "God is imaginary" site. Check it out, because I think it requires more faith to be an athiest than to see the truth, so if your beliefs are not too shallow that you will refuse to see it then please check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyOVEerPC8w
The Gospels were written based on his life and they were written as early as 55CE which is around 17 years after he lived, and when that is based on an oral culture where only very important things are written down that is extremely early.
Historians agree something major had to happen, back in first century Judaism there were many Messianic movements of people rising up and claiming they were the Messiah, however it usually led to a rebellion against Rome and death to the leader, soon after people would stop following and the movement would disband. However in the case of Jesus, people still followed him after his death and what led them to do so in my opinion was the resurrection.
Thirdly, all the disciples died horrible deaths, people do not tell lies to make their lives worst. Would you die for a lie if you knew you were lying? They were scattered throughout the known world back then, and none of them revoked their claims. If it was a lie at least one of them was bound to give in to fear and admit that all they were preaching was a lie.
Overall Christians are called to spread the gospel and the message of Jesus, not to convince people, that is an internal choice each of us must make, if you think Jesus is fake or a lie then dont follow him, but also dont call it a delusion. |
Jesus is the Greek name for the Jewish Joshua, there were hundreds of Joshua.
Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.
Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs.
Hillel the Elder, (end of first century BCE to beginning of first century CE) is considered the greatest sage of the Second Temple period.
Hillel was a teacher, he said: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Law; the rest is the explanation; go and learn" (Shab. 31a). With these words Hillel recognized as the fundamental principle of the Jewish moral law the Biblical precept of brotherly love (Lev. xix.1 .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder
It is possible that a rabbi called Joshua/Jesus was his disciple and helped spread his words.
Everything else is just a construct.
If you have any evidence other than that, please share it with me.
And with regards to people dying for a lie, have you ever heard of Jihad? |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
Innocence of the gullible? The video I posted contains much more scientific evidence than this "God is imaginary" site. Check it out, because I think it requires more faith to be an athiest than to see the truth, so if your beliefs are not too shallow that you will refuse to see it then please check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyOVEerPC8w
The Gospels were written based on his life and they were written as early as 55CE which is around 17 years after he lived, and when that is based on an oral culture where only very important things are written down that is extremely early.
Historians agree something major had to happen, back in first century Judaism there were many Messianic movements of people rising up and claiming they were the Messiah, however it usually led to a rebellion against Rome and death to the leader, soon after people would stop following and the movement would disband. However in the case of Jesus, people still followed him after his death and what led them to do so in my opinion was the resurrection.
Thirdly, all the disciples died horrible deaths, people do not tell lies to make their lives worst. Would you die for a lie if you knew you were lying? They were scattered throughout the known world back then, and none of them revoked their claims. If it was a lie at least one of them was bound to give in to fear and admit that all they were preaching was a lie.
Overall Christians are called to spread the gospel and the message of Jesus, not to convince people, that is an internal choice each of us must make, if you think Jesus is fake or a lie then dont follow him, but also dont call it a delusion. |
Jesus is the Greek name for the Jewish Joshua, there were hundreds of Joshua.
Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.
Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs.
Hillel the Elder, (end of first century BCE to beginning of first century CE) is considered the greatest sage of the Second Temple period.
Hillel was a teacher, he said: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Law; the rest is the explanation; go and learn" (Shab. 31a). With these words Hillel recognized as the fundamental principle of the Jewish moral law the Biblical precept of brotherly love (Lev. xix.1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder
It is possible that a rabbi called Joshua/Jesus was his disciple and helped spread his words.
Everything else is just a construct.
If you have any evidence other than that, please share it with me.
And with regards to people dying for a lie, have you ever heard of Jihad? |
Some have argued that the absence of textual references to Nazareth in the Old Testament and the Talmud, but that is hardly proof that it didn't exist. It was a place of unimportance back then as I'm sure many other towns and villages were left out of textual reference.
As I have stated before most of the early history is written decades if not centuries after that person has lived. In the case of Jesus some believed as early as 55AD and 70AD. Try to find when Cesar's history was written.
Hillel was not the first person to say those words. The Buddha for example said “In five ways should a clansman minister to his friends and familiars, by treating them as he treats himself.”
What makes Jesus different is that he says: "Do unto others as you would have done to you". On that saying alone he is inviting us to do go out and perform good deeds to our neighbor instead of just sitting around and not doing what is hateful, otherwise we would have the same function as a rock, it does no harm but it does no good. That is one of the teachings that sets him apart from other teachers and philosophers.
I highly doubt Jesus was Hillel's apprentice, Jesus challenged the very core of religion, he offended pharisees and Sadducee's and overall religious people by challenging their beliefs and dependence on religion while forgetting to follow God with an open heart. In other words he came to take religion down and teach a new way of living by the grace of God and not from the law, but out of love. That teaching was revolutionary in a way that some people were greatly offended and others accepted it and followed him.
As for more evidence, I believe that spending some time researching about the prophecies Jesus fulfilled in the Torah would be a wise thing to do.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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Siwel of Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. |
If Firawn's arguments are from ignorance, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
Hey I am new here, I am still learning of much and my pursuit of knowledge, wisdom, and Truth has brought me here, I am a Christian though. Perhaps I shall introduce myself elsewhere but of God I have compiled certain ways to know he is real, some which I shall not share.
First off the universe scientifically had a beginning, as I am sure most persons here know this. There was nothing and then there was something, there was no matter and then there was, from this unexistence came existence. How firstly can this come from nothing, must a cause have a causer? I likely would think so, through my inborn reason I would say so. Let us pretend and say matter just came into existence, by some uncountable chance the universe and all this matter came from nothing? Then comes Earth, the cradle of life- as we know it. Surely we must now wonder what the odds of something like earth just by chance with perfect condition come into existence, the odds seem uncountable and unknowable, so let us say by some odds the Earth came and then it was the perfect distance away from Sol to become somewhat hospitable, so over time cells just came into existence... So now there is life, we have a cell, an AMAZINGLY complex tiny building block of life, have you ever looked into the complexities of a cell? Cells then just decided to come together? To form plants or some simpler organism, where then does the creatures come about, did the plants one day decide to walk, did the fish grow legs to walk on shore, did the creatures just decide to grow wings, to get away from trouble? What about the vessels in the human body which can be 60,000-100,000 miles long? :o WOW, yes that long, how could this just come about, how could anything just come about from nothing, it makes no reasonable sense to assume their was no causer, no creator.
What about morals? How could we ever have thought of doing something opposite of what we wanted to, why do we feel so horrible when we commit an act deemed wrong? Perhaps it could be just what we are taught but then why do I feel guilt for things I was never told are wrong, what is this connection humans have, this love, where would it come from except from a wise and loving creator who gives each of us a choice to love him or not.
Relationships build any belief though, so take in mind this. I once heard a very learned and wise man speak of how the lack of a relationship or of love in any human beings life causes them to feel an emptiness their whole life.
So I conclude my words with- How and Why, some things can never be known. |
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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
Some have argued that the absence of textual references to Nazareth in the Old Testament and the Talmud, but that is hardly proof that it didn't exist. It was a place of unimportance back then as I'm sure many other towns and villages were left out of textual reference.
As I have stated before most of the early history is written decades if not centuries after that person has lived. In the case of Jesus some believed as early as 55AD and 70AD. Try to find when Cesar's history was written.
Hillel was not the first person to say those words. The Buddha for example said “In five ways should a clansman minister to his friends and familiars, by treating them as he treats himself.”
What makes Jesus different is that he says: "Do unto others as you would have done to you". On that saying alone he is inviting us to do go out and perform good deeds to our neighbor instead of just sitting around and not doing what is hateful, otherwise we would have the same function as a rock, it does no harm but it does no good. That is one of the teachings that sets him apart from other teachers and philosophers.
I highly doubt Jesus was Hillel's apprentice, Jesus challenged the very core of religion, he offended pharisees and Sadducee's and overall religious people by challenging their beliefs and dependence on religion while forgetting to follow God with an open heart. In other words he came to take religion down and teach a new way of living by the grace of God and not from the law, but out of love. That teaching was revolutionary in a way that some people were greatly offended and others accepted it and followed him.
As for more evidence, I believe that spending some time researching about the prophecies Jesus fulfilled in the Torah would be a wise thing to do. |
This is what I said:
A real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.
If you have any evidence proving Jesus' existence please share it.
What is the basic difference between:
Hillel "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow"
Jesus "Do unto others as you would have done to you"
And for finding evidence of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled in the Torah, herebelow is a Jewish site that disagrees with you:
| Quote: |
"If an individual fails to fulfil even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
Certainly NOT Jesus." |
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html
Do check it out. |
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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Well first of all, dear Siwel, welcome! I hope you have fun during your stay here.
| Siwel of Kingdom wrote: |
First off the universe scientifically had a beginning, as I am sure most persons here know this. There was nothing and then there was something, there was no matter and then there was, from this unexistence came existence. How firstly can this come from nothing, must a cause have a causer? I likely would think so, through my inborn reason I would say so. Let us pretend and say matter just came into existence, by some uncountable chance the universe and all this matter came from nothing? Then comes Earth, the cradle of life- as we know it. Surely we must now wonder what the odds of something like earth just by chance with perfect condition come into existence, the odds seem uncountable and unknowable, so let us say by some odds the Earth came and then it was the perfect distance away from Sol to become somewhat hospitable, so over time cells just came into existence... So now there is life, we have a cell, an AMAZINGLY complex tiny building block of life, have you ever looked into the complexities of a cell? Etc Etc |
There is no science that proves that the Universe had a beginning, there are theories but these are still being refined.
I believe we have evolved from simple cells to be complex but if as you claim everything "amazingly complex" requires a "causer" then the causer itself must be very complex and also require a causer...you could go on ad infinitum.
| Quote: |
What about morals? How could we ever have thought of doing something opposite of what we wanted to, why do we feel so horrible when we commit an act deemed wrong? |
You could begin by reading about utilitarianism:
"Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is solely determined by its contribution to overall utility in maximizing happiness or pleasure as summed among all persons."
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So I conclude my words with- How and Why, some things can never be known. |
I agree with you that some things can never be known but if God exists and has endowed us with Intelligence Logic and Reason, it would be blasphemous not to use them and believe the fairy stories we are fed by clerics. |
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Siwel of Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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There is no science that proves that the Universe had a beginning, there are theories but these are still being refined.
I believe we have evolved from simple cells to be complex but if as you claim everything "amazingly complex" requires a "causer" then the causer itself must be very complex and also require a causer...you could go on ad infinitum. |
Thank you for the welcome 
If general relativity is correct then any reasonable model of the universe must start with a singularity. So it is unclear yes but the only reason to deny such and to search more is to search for something other than God. Also At the beginning the universe was extremely hot and dense and as it expanded it cooled.
Now the causer itself is the tough question but I have never found it unbelievable, as if time had not existed, there could be one who was not created but was the creator, which might seem redundant as I am unsure if that answer will ever be answered or even if it is answerable.
| Quote: |
You could begin by reading about utilitarianism:
"Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is solely determined by its contribution to overall utility in maximizing happiness or pleasure as summed among all persons." |
Or maybe Nihilism, the belief in no moral at all, a very dangerous idealism. Utilitarianism seems true in many ways but why then in a culture where killing seems natural and where it is all around, why does everyone hesitate to shoot another, to kill another, of course I mean a person in a normal set of mind. After that block in the brain is passed though and can be forgotten that person becomes a killing machine. What if we also think of how did we ever think to do something "good," something which goes against our often primal instinct, where would we ever come up with the idea to do something the opposite of what we should, why should we think doing something a certain way is not good while the other is, a very difficult subject for sure.
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| I agree with you that some things can never be known but if God exists and has endowed us with Intelligence Logic and Reason, it would be blasphemous not to use them and believe the fairy stories we are fed by clerics. |
I would agree as to always stay watchful but let your pursuit of Truth lead you to Truth, you will know when you have found it as an emptiness in your heart will have been filled, do know though you can fill that empty spot with something false so be watchful always, the both of us, question but do know some things require faith but as much as we can find out to prove our faith, is more than amazing. |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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"If an individual fails to fulfil even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
Certainly NOT Jesus." |
Hey Popeye
I did check out the site, I got a chance to read everything, yet the author uses a well thought manipulation of words to get his message out, in which Jesus did not fulfill those prophecies when in reality the things he posted were already fulfilled.
There is a site with over 300 prophecies Jesus fulfilled during his time on Earth.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm
As for evidence for Jesus it would be too long to post however I encourage you to take a look at this site, it provides historical evidence for Jesus along with other historical figures that are in the bible and have been found to be true.
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Siwel of Kingdom wrote: |
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There is no science that proves that the Universe had a beginning, there are theories but these are still being refined.
I believe we have evolved from simple cells to be complex but if as you claim everything "amazingly complex" requires a "causer" then the causer itself must be very complex and also require a causer...you could go on ad infinitum. |
Thank you for the welcome
If general relativity is correct then any reasonable model of the universe must start with a singularity. So it is unclear yes but the only reason to deny such and to search more is to search for something other than God. Also At the beginning the universe was extremely hot and dense and as it expanded it cooled.
Now the causer itself is the tough question but I have never found it unbelievable, as if time had not existed, there could be one who was not created but was the creator, which might seem redundant as I am unsure if that answer will ever be answered or even if it is answerable.
| Quote: |
You could begin by reading about utilitarianism:
"Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is solely determined by its contribution to overall utility in maximizing happiness or pleasure as summed among all persons." |
Or maybe Nihilism, the belief in no moral at all, a very dangerous idealism. Utilitarianism seems true in many ways but why then in a culture where killing seems natural and where it is all around, why does everyone hesitate to shoot another, to kill another, of course I mean a person in a normal set of mind. After that block in the brain is passed though and can be forgotten that person becomes a killing machine. What if we also think of how did we ever think to do something "good," something which goes against our often primal instinct, where would we ever come up with the idea to do something the opposite of what we should, why should we think doing something a certain way is not good while the other is, a very difficult subject for sure.
| Quote: |
| I agree with you that some things can never be known but if God exists and has endowed us with Intelligence Logic and Reason, it would be blasphemous not to use them and believe the fairy stories we are fed by clerics. |
I would agree as to always stay watchful but let your pursuit of Truth lead you to Truth, you will know when you have found it as an emptiness in your heart will have been filled, do know though you can fill that empty spot with something false so be watchful always, the both of us, question but do know some things require faith but as much as we can find out to prove our faith, is more than amazing. |
Was it a singularity or some kind of quantum event triggered it all. Science hasn't answered this yet, but an answer along these lines is simpler than a Creator, who would just raise new questions (Occams razor).
Maybe the universe is not a Creation, it was not Created. It simply is ...And it contains no evidence of any Creator or god-like beings of any sort.
--you assume that some outside force 'changed' the singularity and say it must be God.
Why assume that it was inert? Maybe, a singularity expanded, but the forces involved are all still here in our universe (energy). Where did the singularity and its forces come from? I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but it hardly screams 'creator.'
Change is not creation.
How do you define the limits of what is being changed and separate it from what is doing the changing?
What connection does change have with creation?
You accept that your "God" is ever existing, why is it far fetched to assume that the Universe or "Multiverse" always existed..?
And why a single creator, why not a team of creators? |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Your belief that the universe is ever existing is about 100 years late, early scientists thought of this until Einstein proved it wrong. And did you get a chance to watch that movie I posted, its called "A case for the Creator", it shows with science how a creator can exist. There is more evidence supporting it then going against it.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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Siwel of Kingdom
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Popeye wrote: |
| Siwel of Kingdom wrote: |
| Quote: |
There is no science that proves that the Universe had a beginning, there are theories but these are still being refined.
I believe we have evolved from simple cells to be complex but if as you claim everything "amazingly complex" requires a "causer" then the causer itself must be very complex and also require a causer...you could go on ad infinitum. |
Thank you for the welcome
If general relativity is correct then any reasonable model of the universe must start with a singularity. So it is unclear yes but the only reason to deny such and to search more is to search for something other than God. Also At the beginning the universe was extremely hot and dense and as it expanded it cooled.
Now the causer itself is the tough question but I have never found it unbelievable, as if time had not existed, there could be one who was not created but was the creator, which might seem redundant as I am unsure if that answer will ever be answered or even if it is answerable.
| Quote: |
You could begin by reading about utilitarianism:
"Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is solely determined by its contribution to overall utility in maximizing happiness or pleasure as summed among all persons." |
Or maybe Nihilism, the belief in no moral at all, a very dangerous idealism. Utilitarianism seems true in many ways but why then in a culture where killing seems natural and where it is all around, why does everyone hesitate to shoot another, to kill another, of course I mean a person in a normal set of mind. After that block in the brain is passed though and can be forgotten that person becomes a killing machine. What if we also think of how did we ever think to do something "good," something which goes against our often primal instinct, where would we ever come up with the idea to do something the opposite of what we should, why should we think doing something a certain way is not good while the other is, a very difficult subject for sure.
| Quote: |
| I agree with you that some things can never be known but if God exists and has endowed us with Intelligence Logic and Reason, it would be blasphemous not to use them and believe the fairy stories we are fed by clerics. |
I would agree as to always stay watchful but let your pursuit of Truth lead you to Truth, you will know when you have found it as an emptiness in your heart will have been filled, do know though you can fill that empty spot with something false so be watchful always, the both of us, question but do know some things require faith but as much as we can find out to prove our faith, is more than amazing. |
Was it a singularity or some kind of quantum event triggered it all. Science hasn't answered this yet, but an answer along these lines is simpler than a Creator, who would just raise new questions (Occams razor).
Maybe the universe is not a Creation, it was not Created. It simply is ...And it contains no evidence of any Creator or god-like beings of any sort.
--you assume that some outside force 'changed' the singularity and say it must be God.
Why assume that it was inert? Maybe, a singularity expanded, but the forces involved are all still here in our universe (energy). Where did the singularity and its forces come from? I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but it hardly screams 'creator.'
Change is not creation.
How do you define the limits of what is being changed and separate it from what is doing the changing?
What connection does change have with creation?
You accept that your "God" is ever existing, why is it far fetched to assume that the Universe or "Multiverse" always existed..?
And why a single creator, why not a team of creators? |
Yes please do listen to FreePower as I would say to anyone do not feel prideful for your position and do not always reject any idea of a creator, if you truly seek Truth you shall find your answer. There are other points I have yet to raise but for now we shall focus upon what has been said. |
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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
| Your belief that the universe is ever existing is about 100 years late, early scientists thought of this until Einstein proved it wrong. And did you get a chance to watch that movie I posted, its called "A case for the Creator", it shows with science how a creator can exist. There is more evidence supporting it then going against it. |
Dear FreePower,
"Creationism" has been debunked many times over..
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-creationists.html
A couple of relevant quotes from Einstein: (since you quote him)
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
Millions of people years ago believed in the god "Saturn", the Roman god of agriculture. These people prayed to Saturn, they worshiped Saturn, they gave gifts to Saturn. And yet, no one today believes in this god. Saturn, like all of the once worshiped Roman gods, is now a dead, unfollowed god.
When I was young, and trusted my parents' and the church's word, I believed in god. I believed in god until I was 12. I couldn't see why god shouldn't exist, since I trusted what I was told, and was too young to care for the contradictions and arguments against god.
A similar thing happened earlier when I stopped believing in Santa Claus.
When you were finally old enough to deduce that reindeer don't fly, that it would be impossible for Santa to deliver presents to every house in the world in one night, and that your parents were in fact the ones who bought your presents, you no longer believed...and for good reason. |
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Rat_bytes
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 539
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
| And did you get a chance to watch that movie I posted, its called "A case for the Creator", it shows with science how a creator can exist. There is more evidence supporting it then going against it. |
There is NO evidence for intelligent design. Their "evidence" relies on perceived holes in evolutionary theory such as "irreducible complexity", which has been shown time and time again by biologists to be fallacious.
Seriously though, why don't you point out the segments of that video that you think show scientific proof for a creator? Betcha can't.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri |
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M
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 1093
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Siwel of Kingdom,
I have to apologize to you, as I have accidentally deleted your account. You can re-register with the same data, if you want.
Best Wishes,
a sorry M. 
_________________
Retaliation is not an excuse! |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
| Your belief that the universe is ever existing is about 100 years late, early scientists thought of this until Einstein proved it wrong. And did you get a chance to watch that movie I posted, its called "A case for the Creator", it shows with science how a creator can exist. There is more evidence supporting it then going against it. |
Dear FreePower,
"Creationism" has been debunked many times over..
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-creationists.html
A couple of relevant quotes from Einstein: (since you quote him)
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
Millions of people years ago believed in the god "Saturn", the Roman god of agriculture. These people prayed to Saturn, they worshiped Saturn, they gave gifts to Saturn. And yet, no one today believes in this god. Saturn, like all of the once worshiped Roman gods, is now a dead, unfollowed god.
When I was young, and trusted my parents' and the church's word, I believed in god. I believed in god until I was 12. I couldn't see why god shouldn't exist, since I trusted what I was told, and was too young to care for the contradictions and arguments against god.
A similar thing happened earlier when I stopped believing in Santa Claus.
When you were finally old enough to deduce that reindeer don't fly, that it would be impossible for Santa to deliver presents to every house in the world in one night, and that your parents were in fact the ones who bought your presents, you no longer believed...and for good reason. |
I do not believe that the Earth was created in 6 literal days. Einstein might of been the smartest man alive but you can be smart and yet be a fool. Anyhow you can look at Genesis 1, it says in the beginning there was light, so how could there be light if the sun only came later? Well scientists now say that there was light at the time of the Big Bang. And responding to the second post, the universe is ever expanding, if you play it back it would eventually come back and be so dense it would explode. However its a known fact in science that matter cannot exist from non matter. Matter does not just create itself.
"To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree."
Charles Darwin
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”
Last edited by FreePower on Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Musti
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 912
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
I do not believe that the Earth was created in 6 literal days. |
Why? Because science has proved it wrong?
| FreePower wrote: |
Anyhow you can look at Genesis 1, it says in the beginning there was light, so how could there be light if the sun only came later? Well scientists now say that there was light at the time of the Big Bang. |
The probable reason why light existed before the sun is because the author was unaware the sun was needed for daylight, just like the Korans author. |
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