|
Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Firawn
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Sweden
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: Understand religious delusion |
 |
|
Here a very good extract from a [url=]site proving that God is imaginary[/url]. I recommend all the religious folks to read it, and also read the other proofs for that God is imaginary (50 proofs in total).
| Quote: |
A simple experiment
If you are a Christian who believes in the power of prayer, here is a very simple experiment that will show you something very interesting about your faith.
Take a coin out of your pocket. Now pray sincerely to Ra:
Dear Ra, almighty sun god, I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Ra's name I pray, Amen.
Now flip the coin. Chances are that you won't get past the fifth or sixth flip and the coin will land tails.
What does this mean? Most people would look at this data and conclude that Ra is imaginary. We prayed to Ra, and Ra did nothing. We can prove that Ra is imaginary (at least in the sense of prayer-answering ability) by using statistical analysis. If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Ra each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. Ra has absolutely no effect on the coin no matter how much we pray. Even if we find a thousand of Ra's most faithful believers and ask them to do the praying/flipping, the results will be the same. Therefore, as rational people, we conclude that Ra is imaginary. We look at Ra in the same way that we look at Leprechauns, Mermaids, Santa and so on. We know that people who believe in Ra are delusional.
Now I want you to try the experiment again, but this time I want you to pray to Jesus Christ instead of Ra. Pray sincerely to Jesus like this:
Dear Jesus, I know that you exist and I know that you hear and answer prayers as you promise in the Bible. I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.
Now flip the coin. Once again, after the fifth or sixth flip, the coin will land tails.
If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Jesus each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. It is not like there are two laws of probability -- one for Christians who pray and the other for non-Christians. There is only one law of probability because prayers have zero effect. Jesus has no effect on our planet no matter how much we pray. We can prove that conclusively using statitical analysis.
If you believe in God, watch what is happening inside your mind right now. The data is absolutely identical in both experiments. With Ra you looked at the data rationally and concluded that Ra is imaginary. But with Jesus... something else will happen. In your mind, you are already coming up with a thousand rationalizations to explain why Jesus did not answer your prayers:
* It is not his will
* He doesn't have time
* I didn't pray the right way
* I am not worthy
* I do not have enough faith
* I cannot test the Lord like this
* It is not part of Jesus' plan for me
* And on and on and on...
One rationalization that you may find yourself developing is particularly interesting. You may say to yourself: “Well, of course Jesus doesn’t answer me when I pray about a coin toss, because it is too trivial." Where did this rationalization come from? If you read what Jesus says about prayer in the Bible (see this proof), Jesus does not ever say, "don't pray to me about coin tosses." Jesus clearly says he will answer your prayers, and he puts no boundaries on what you may pray for. You invented this rationalization out of thin air.
You are an expert at creating rationalizations for Jesus. The reason you are an expert is because Jesus does not answer any of your prayers (see this proof). The reason why Jesus does not answer any of your prayers is because Jesus and God are imaginary. |
_________________
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has" - Martin Luther
The mysterious illness of the Prophet Muhammad identified |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. We are called not to tempt God with futile things such as "flipping coins" and hoping in lands on heads in his name". Devil himself told Jesus to jump off a cliff because he knew God would save him but Jesus did not do it. He said:
'You shall not temp the Lord your God.'"
If you need evidence watch this movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyOVEerPC8
6 parts to it.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FreePower wrote: |
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. |
If Firawn's arguments are from ignorance, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. |
If Firawn's arguments are from ignorance, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
did you by any chance watch the video I posted?
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FreePower wrote: |
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. |
If Firawn's arguments are from ignorance, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
did you by any chance watch the video I posted? |
Hello FreePower,
Do you always answer a question with another question?
It is like me asking did you read the God Delusion?
If I come to a Discussion Board it is because I want to interact with individuals rather than watch propaganda videos...unfortunately I do not have that much time.
So if you are willing to defend your assertion and in your own words, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simonh
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
This is so ignorant of you to post, this proves nothing I call it utter ignorance and they are not even strong arguments. |
If Firawn's arguments are from ignorance, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
did you by any chance watch the video I posted? |
Hello FreePower,
Do you always answer a question with another question?
It is like me asking did you read the God Delusion?
If I come to a Discussion Board it is because I want to interact with individuals rather than watch propaganda videos...unfortunately I do not have that much time.
So if you are willing to defend your assertion and in your own words, what would you say are strong arguments for God's existence? |
Nothing... Its lack of belief... that makes a small unreasonable discusion to be a Strong Argument for God's existence... you can find this concept "lack of belief" with many Ignorants..... 
I hope you are not the one I am talking  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FreePower wrote: |
| Sure then lets debate, what do you want theological or scientific proof? |
Very grand of you to offer both theological and scientific proof!
Any good argument will suffice.
Incidentally which God do you believe in? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a Christian, I believe in God and Jesus as his son. However I don't like religion because Jesus himself came to take away religion and it seems over the centuries Christians put a whole religion around him and tamed his image. let's start with that 
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FreePower wrote: |
| I'm a Christian, I believe in God and Jesus as his son. However I don't like religion because Jesus himself came to take away religion and it seems over the centuries Christians put a whole religion around him and tamed his image. let's start with that |
Does it not strike as rather odd the story of Jesus sacrifice?
God kills Himself on the Cross to save His own Creation from His own Wrath....? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hendryten
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
| I'm a Christian, I believe in God and Jesus as his son. However I don't like religion because Jesus himself came to take away religion and it seems over the centuries Christians put a whole religion around him and tamed his image. let's start with that |
Does it not strike as rather odd the story of Jesus sacrifice?
God kills Himself on the Cross to save His own Creation from His own Wrath....? |
I've never understand the part of the cruxifixtion, what it has to do with "wash away other human's sin"....
Shouldn't it more be like speaking to the radio, tv, any other media, telepathic maybe, and tell us "I forgive you all...."
_________________
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - Buddha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
It basically goes like this:
In the Old Jewish times, hundreds/thousands of years before Jesus they were given laws to make animal sacrifices to atone for their sins, usually they would choose the purest animal such as a young lamb.
However through prophets God told that there would be a day when the relationship that was severed between humans and God would be restored. So Jesus came, took religion away and he was the perfect lamb, just like the sacrifices of old, his blood washed away the sins of all the humans, God chose a symbolic way of doing this. And yes Jesus forgave people on the spot when they asked for it. He also performed miracles to show that his power of forgiving sins had divine right behind it.
Now that Jesus came, died for us and resurrected therefore beating sin and death itself, we live in grace and not in law anymore, we should focus our lives around love and then everything else we do will be always be around what is the best for our neighbor. No more religious laws, rituals, customs, Jesus took all that away, and for those Christians that do those kinds of things they need to revisit the Bible and see what Jesus's whole message and purpose was about.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FreePower wrote: |
It basically goes like this:
In the Old Jewish times, hundreds/thousands of years before Jesus they were given laws to make animal sacrifices to atone for their sins, usually they would choose the purest animal such as a young lamb.
However through prophets God told that there would be a day when the relationship that was severed between humans and God would be restored. So Jesus came, took religion away and he was the perfect lamb, just like the sacrifices of old, his blood washed away the sins of all the humans, God chose a symbolic way of doing this. And yes Jesus forgave people on the spot when they asked for it. He also performed miracles to show that his power of forgiving sins had divine right behind it.
Now that Jesus came, died for us and resurrected therefore beating sin and death itself, we live in grace and not in law anymore, we should focus our lives around love and then everything else we do will be always be around what is the best for our neighbor. No more religious laws, rituals, customs, Jesus took all that away, and for those Christians that do those kinds of things they need to revisit the Bible and see what Jesus's whole message and purpose was about. |
Dear FreePower,
A very nice story indeed, a mixture of wishful thinking and preaching; the innocence of the gullible is wonderful..
Of course you offer no proof that any of this happened and you do not address the paradox of the crucifiction.
And with regards to the Bible this American site says it is repulsive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
Have you read the Bible and understood all of it or have you just cherry-picked pleasant stories? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hendryten
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Unlike popeye, I believe Jesus was a real historical human. I believe he existed and was a great man.
But to believe that he is the only way to heaven and his cruxifixtion save all humanity don't make sense to me...
And for you to say God choose this symbolic way, you sure do know you God, eh, God need to do a better job because that symbolic way can't convince me...
_________________
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - Buddha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Popeye wrote: |
| FreePower wrote: |
It basically goes like this:
In the Old Jewish times, hundreds/thousands of years before Jesus they were given laws to make animal sacrifices to atone for their sins, usually they would choose the purest animal such as a young lamb.
However through prophets God told that there would be a day when the relationship that was severed between humans and God would be restored. So Jesus came, took religion away and he was the perfect lamb, just like the sacrifices of old, his blood washed away the sins of all the humans, God chose a symbolic way of doing this. And yes Jesus forgave people on the spot when they asked for it. He also performed miracles to show that his power of forgiving sins had divine right behind it.
Now that Jesus came, died for us and resurrected therefore beating sin and death itself, we live in grace and not in law anymore, we should focus our lives around love and then everything else we do will be always be around what is the best for our neighbor. No more religious laws, rituals, customs, Jesus took all that away, and for those Christians that do those kinds of things they need to revisit the Bible and see what Jesus's whole message and purpose was about. |
Dear FreePower,
A very nice story indeed, a mixture of wishful thinking and preaching; the innocence of the gullible is wonderful..
Of course you offer no proof that any of this happened and you do not address the paradox of the crucifiction.
And with regards to the Bible this American site says it is repulsive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
Have you read the Bible and understood all of it or have you just cherry-picked pleasant stories? |
Innocence of the gullible? The video I posted contains much more scientific evidence than this "God is imaginary" site. Check it out, because I think it requires more faith to be an athiest than to see the truth, so if your beliefs are not too shallow that you will refuse to see it then please check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyOVEerPC8w
The Gospels were written based on his life and they were written as early as 55CE which is around 17 years after he lived, and when that is based on an oral culture where only very important things are written down that is extremely early.
Historians agree something major had to happen, back in first century Judaism there were many Messianic movements of people rising up and claiming they were the Messiah, however it usually led to a rebellion against Rome and death to the leader, soon after people would stop following and the movement would disband. However in the case of Jesus, people still followed him after his death and what led them to do so in my opinion was the resurrection.
Thirdly, all the disciples died horrible deaths, people do not tell lies to make their lives worst. Would you die for a lie if you knew you were lying? They were scattered throughout the known world back then, and none of them revoked their claims. If it was a lie at least one of them was bound to give in to fear and admit that all they were preaching was a lie.
Overall Christians are called to spread the gospel and the message of Jesus, not to convince people, that is an internal choice each of us must make, if you think Jesus is fake or a lie then dont follow him, but also dont call it a delusion.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
