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Speech of God?

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cosmicdancer

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: Speech of God?

New Video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oKoEu8xS7nk I made this last night and didn't really plan it properly. I'm sorry for not putting subtitles, but the translation is on the right in the "About this Video" section. _________________ I do not support nor endorse the aims of Faithfreedom International.

yeezevee

Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject:

Quote:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oKoEu8xS7nk

Quote:

I'm sorry - I should have subtitled it. I just did it late at night after getting the kids to sleep and so did it without much planning. But here is a quick translation.

Peace be upon you and the mercy of god and his blessing, today I will present a video in arabic and I want to speak a little bit about the Qur'an and I shall begin with some verses from it. (First few verses from sura yasin - my first son's name -

)

Is this the speech of god or the speech of men? I used o believe that this is the speech of God but now I believe it is the speech of Muhammad and that god - if there is a god - does not send down books or send prophets, but all of this is from the imagination of man, even though they are sincere in their belief.

I was born Muslim and for 48 years I was a devout Muslim, but i the last few years doubts beset me. Doubts in the Qur'an, doubts in islam, doubts in everything, doubts in all that I used to believe in. I tried to push away these doubts, I , tried in every way, but they did not increase except in fury and extremity, and left nothing but questions.

How could the Merciful, the forgiving, say that he will torture those who don't believe in him, a torture that is permanent, everlasting, horrible, and frightening beyond all extreme. How can the gentle and the loving that it is allowed for a husband to hit his wife, how can the Peaceful, the Compassionate, 'kill the polythiests wherever one finds them!'

All these questions went around my conscience, and I couldn't find an answer that assured my heart or quietened my soul. Until I found no option but the conclusion that this is not the speech of God, but the speech of man, man from the 7th century, man who posses the mentality of his time andvthe thinking of his age.

So my associates friends said that the Qur'an is a miracle in it's language and it's style, and no one can challenge or bring the same as it. But this is a subjective opinion and not an objective one and depends on the view of the individual reading the qu'ran and depends upon his faith - or lack of faith.

Now, when I read the quran I see no reason to suppose this is the speech of god but I see many reasons to supose this is the speech of man.

Until we met again - peace be upon you.

cosmicdancer.. so good to see you and good to hear you at FFI., is it O.K. if I post what is there in that video link you made here??.. If you don't agree with that let me know., and let us here that Sura Yasin on the way from a little kid. So, out Sura YA-SEEN has 83 verses., So let us put that Sura here .. I like Shaker's version.. I think he was only the REAL MUSLIM guy.. Although he copied a lot of his translation from YUSUFALI, still I think it is better to read SHAKIR's version . So let us hear that from a little kid and read Sura YA-SEEN with OBJECTIVE ORIENTED LANGUGE..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6gKA1nm9qE
We will discuss this Surah.. who wrote? why they wrote? where did they get it? and the Role of Mr. Muhammad in this episode.,

with best wishes
yeezevee

yeezevee

Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

So here is our Sura Ya Seen.

Quote:

036.001: Ya Seen.

036.002: I swear by the Quran full of wisdom

036.003: Most surely you are one of the messengers

036.004
YUSUFALI: On a Straight Way.
PICKTHAL: On a straight path,
SHAKIR: On a right way.

036.005: A revelation of the Mighty, the Merciful.

036.006: That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.

036.007: Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe.

036.008: Lo! We have put on their necks carcans reaching unto the chins, so that they are made stiff-necked.
SHAKIR: Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft.

036.009: And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see.

036.010: And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe.

036.011: : You can only warn him who follows the reminder and fears the Beneficent Allah in secret; so announce to him forgiveness and an honorable reward.

036.012: Surely We give life to the dead, and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have recorded everything in a clear writing.

036.013: And set out to them an example of the people of the town, when the messengers came to it.

036.014: When We sent to them two, they rejected both of them, then We strengthened (them) with a third, so they said: Surely we are messengers to you.

036.015: They said: You are naught but mortals like ourselves, nor has the Beneficent Allah revealed anything; you only lie.

036.016: They said: Our Lord knows that we are most surely messengers to you.

036.017: And nothing devolves on us but a clear deliverance (of the message).

036.018: They said: Surely we augur evil from you; if you do not desist, we will certainly stone you, and there shall certainly afflict vou a painful chastisement from us.

036.019: They said: Your evil fortune is with you; what! if you are reminded! Nay, you are an extravagant people.

036.020: And from the remote part of the city there came a man running, he said: O my people! follow the messengers;

036.021: Follow him who does not ask you for reward, and they are the followers of the right course;

036.022: And what reason have I that I should not serve Him Who brought me into existence? And to Him you shall be brought back;

036.023: What! shall I take besides Him gods whose intercession, If the Beneficent Allah should desire to afflict me with a harm, shall not avail me aught, nor shall they be able to deliver me?

036.024: In that case I shall most surely be in clear error:

036.025: Surely I believe in your Lord, therefore hear me.

036.026: It was said: Enter the garden. He said: O would that my people had known

036.027: Of that on account of which my Lord has forgiven me and made me of the honored ones!

036.028: And We did not send down upon his people after him any hosts from heaven, nor do We ever send down.

036.029: It was naught but a single cry, and lo! they were still.

036.030: Alas for the servants! there comes not to them an messenger but they mock at him.

036.031: Do they not consider how many of the generations have We destroyed before them, because they do not turn to them?

036.032: And all of them shall surely be brought before Us.

036.033: And a sign to them is the dead earth: We give life to it and bring forth from it grain SQ they eat of it.

036.034: And We make therein gardens of palms and grapevines and We make springs to flow forth in it,

036.035: That they may eat of the fruit thereof, and their hands did not make it; will they not then be grateful?

036.036: Glory be to Him Who created pairs of all things, of what the earth grows, and of their kind and of what they do not know.

036.037: And a sign to them is the night: We draw forth from it the day, then lo! they are in the dark;

036.038: And the sun runs on to a term appointed for it; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.

036.039: And (as for) the moon, We have ordained for it stages till it becomes again as an old dry palm branch.

036.040: Neither is it allowable to the sun that it should overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day; and all float on in a sphere.

036.041 And a sign to them is that We bear their offspring in the laden ship.

036.042: And We have created for them the like of it, what they will ride on.

036.043 : And if We please, We can drown them, then there shall be no succorer for them, nor shall they be rescued

036.044 R: But (by) mercy from Us and for enjoyment till a time.

036.045 R: And when it is said to them: Guard against what is before you and what is behind you, that mercy may be had on you.

036.046 : And there comes not to them a communication of the communications of their Lord but they turn aside from it.

036.047 : And when it is said to them: Spend out of what Allah has given you, those who disbelieve say to those who believe: Shall we feed him whom, if Allah please, He could feed? You are in naught but clear error.

036.048 : And they say: When will this threat come to pass, if you are truthful?

036.049 : They wait not for aught but a single cry which will overtake them while they yet contend with one another.

036.050 : So they shall not be able to make a bequest, nor shall they return to their families.

036.051 R: And the trumpet shall be blown, when lo ! from their graves they shall hasten on to their Lord.

036.052 : They shall say: O woe to us! who has raised us up from our sleeping-place? This is what the Beneficent Allah promised and the messengers told the truth.

036.053 : There would be naught but a single cry, when lo ! they shall all be brought before Us;

036.054 : So this day no soul shall be dealt with unjustly in the least; and you shall not be rewarded aught but that which you did.

036.055 : Surely the dwellers of the garden shall on that day be in an occupation quite happy.

036.056 : They and their wives shall be in shades, reclining on raised couches.

036.057 : They shall have fruits therein, and they shall have whatever they desire.

036.058 : Peace: a word from a Merciful Lord.

036.059 : And get aside today, O guilty ones!

036.060 : Did I not charge you, O children of Adam ! that you should not serve the Shaitan? Surely he is your open enemy,

036.061 : And that you should serve Me; this is the right way.

036.062 : And certainly he led astray numerous people from among you. What! could you not then understand?

036.063 : This is the hell with which you were threatened.

036.064 : Enter into it this day because you disbelieved.

036.065 : On that day We will set a seal upon their mouths, and their hands shall speak to Us, and their feet shall bear witness of what they earned.

036.066: And if We please We would certainly put out their eyes, then they would run about groping for the way, but how should they see?

036.067 : And if We please We would surely transform them in their place, then they would not be able to go on, nor will they return.

036.068 : And whomsoever We cause to live long, We reduce (him) to an abject state in constitution; do they not then understand?

036.069 : And We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for him; it is nothing but a reminder and a plain Quran,

036.070 : That it may warn him who would have life, and (that) the word may prove true against the unbelievers.

036.071 : Do they not see that We have created cattle for them, out of what Our hands have wrought, so they are their masters?

036.072 : And We have subjected them to them, so some of them they have to ride upon, and some of them they eat.

036.073 : And therein they have advantages and drinks; will they not then be grateful?

036.074: And they have taken gods besides Allah that they may be helped.

036.075 : (But) they shall not be able to assist them, and they shall be a host brought up before them.

036.076 : Therefore let not their speech grieve you; surely We know what they do in secret and what they do openly.

036.077 : Does not man see that We have created him from the small seed? Then lo! he is an open disputant.

036.078 : And he strikes out a likeness for Us and forgets his own creation. Says he: Who will give life to the bones when they are rotten?

036.079 : Say: He will give life to them Who brought them into existence at first, and He is cognizant of all creation

036.080 R: He Who has made for you the fire (to burn) from the green tree, so that with it you kindle (fire).

036.081 : Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like of them? Yea! and He is the Creator (of all), the Knower.

036.082 : His command, when He intends anything, is only to say to it: Be, so it is.

036.083 : Therefore glory be to Him in Whose hand is the kingdom of all things, and to Him you shall be brought back.

with best regards
yeezevee

cosmicdancer

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:

yeezevee wrote:

is it O.K. if I post what is there in that video link you made here??

I thought I just did? But yeah, sure.
_________________
I do not support nor endorse the aims of Faithfreedom International.

iqram

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 353
Location: Took a too long vacation

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Speech of God?

cosmicdancer wrote:

New Video:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oKoEu8xS7nk

I made this last night and didn't really plan it properly. I'm sorry for not putting subtitles, but the translation is on the right in the "About this Video" section.

Hey! why dont they ban you for multi-nicking? Not that I want you to be banned, but just curious. Do you forget your password always when being in a long leisure and register again with a new username?

I think I know who you are.

And one more thing, is it safe for you to appear in the video corporealy? I'm worried about you.

Peace
_________________
Prayer: the last refuge of a scoundrel

Brendalee

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 3523

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject:

Hello Iqram: Cosmic Dancer changed his nic with the knowlege of the Ms and Ali Sina, so far as I recall. There were reasons, and it was actually not encouraged that these should be speculated upon or discussed in the forums. Apologies, CD, if I have this wrong but that is what memory tells me. Anyway, good to see you.

cosmicdancer

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Speech of God?

iqram wrote:

cosmicdancer wrote:

I asked one of the mods if it was possible to change my previous nick (Omar Ahmad) to cosmicdancer as I want people who know me under that nick on a couple of other forums that I regularly post on (such as councilofexmuslims.com - quick plug

lol) - to know who I am straight away and know where I am comming from.

The Mod told me that it might be easier if I just retired the old nick and re-registered.

So I did.

Mystery solved

_________________
I do not support nor endorse the aims of Faithfreedom International.

Last edited by cosmicdancer on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

cosmicdancer

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject:

Brendalee wrote:

Hello Iqram: Cosmic Dancer changed his nic with the knowlege of the Ms and Ali Sina, so far as I recall. There were reasons, and it was actually not encouraged that these should be speculated upon or discussed in the forums.

Apologies, CD, if I have this wrong but that is what memory tells me.
Anyway, good to see you.

Hi Brendalee,

I think you are referring to the change of nick from my real name which happened a while ago for safety reasons.

Though to be honest I am way past all that now - I don't have a problem with anyone knowing who I am - in fact I make a point of being open and upfront.

To me, breaking the taboo surrounding ex-Muslims is just as important as what I say.

_________________
I do not support nor endorse the aims of Faithfreedom International.

iqram

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 353
Location: Took a too long vacation

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Speech of God?

cosmicdancer wrote:

iqram wrote:

cosmicdancer wrote:

lol) - to know who I am straight away and know where I am comming from.

The Mod told me that it might be easier if I just retired the old nick and re-registered.

So I did.

Mystery solved

got it. Thanks.

what about appearing physically in videos? Safety first.
_________________
Prayer: the last refuge of a scoundrel

cosmicdancer

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Speech of God?

iqram wrote:

got it. Thanks.

what about appearing physically in videos? Safety first.

I'm willing to take that risk in order to break the taboo on leaving Islam.

That was one of the main aims of the Council of Ex-Muslims.

Here is a video of the launch f you haven't seen it:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aM4upL4Gr4Y

Leaving Islam is not a crime - and I have done nothing wrong and nothing to feel ashamed or afraid about.

The more ex-Muslims do that the more likely things will change.
_________________
I do not support nor endorse the aims of Faithfreedom International.

MsWesterner

Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:

absolutely.....you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to be ashamed of, and in fact, much to be proud of in that due to your questioning/learning/thinking you could no longer live a lie. The fate of this world and its people now depends on ex muslims like yourselves being the "real" mean and woman and showing your integrity and bravery, and I much respect that in you (and was odd watching your video because initially your face didnt match what I had pictured prior to that) I feel sure that your standing up to be counted will make many muslims "squirm" when they know they have been deceived, but lack either the wherewithall to speak out or the guts!!! please keep doing what you do.....it is imperative and much appreciated.

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