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diotima64
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth
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 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| La Ilaha wrote: |
| diotima64 wrote: |
| Lyzandra Daria wrote: |
| arildno wrote: |
| Eeh, how can Islam be a "heresy" to some other equally false belief??? |
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Catholics (obviously) don't consider their 'beliefs' to be false. My point is that catholics could come to also believe, as with the other 'heresies' that went the way of the sword, that Islam is actually an off shoot of catholicism which needs to be a) eradicated or b) brought into alignment. Catholics have proved very ingeneous in accomplishing either option. Catholics turned a blind eye at ethnic clensing so long as catholics aren't being killed or threatened (hence the reference to the catholic concords w/ facists. Catholics will align w/ the worst of humankind to achieve the objectives of their cult...world domination. |
have you met David Ben-Ariel yet? You two are a match made in heaven... either there or the nuthouse.
My we ARE attracting a bunch of low-achievers, lately... |
Salam
This is typical reaction when lawyers don't have anything logical to oppose others view.
Allah hafiz mohtarma dio KHAN  
Iran's secret weapon : POPE |
Lyzandra is quite obviously a bigotted anti-catholic ignoramus, what´s NOT to "oppose" in that? And if, as I presume, you meant "counter" her views - well, what ARGUMENTS but unsubstantiated generalising drivel does she bring, that one COULD counter with anything substantial?
It astonishes me NOT, that you sympathise with her. Like and like always flock together...
_________________
Ahmed the wife-beating bahgat moslem said:
"I said I will beat MY ILL CONDUCT WIFE if she insists on her ill conduct" |
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La Ilaha
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1653
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dioKHAN wrote: |
| La Ilaha wrote: |
| diotima64 wrote: |
| Lyzandra Daria wrote: |
| arildno wrote: |
| Eeh, how can Islam be a "heresy" to some other equally false belief??? |
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Catholics (obviously) don't consider their 'beliefs' to be false. My point is that catholics could come to also believe, as with the other 'heresies' that went the way of the sword, that Islam is actually an off shoot of catholicism which needs to be a) eradicated or b) brought into alignment. Catholics have proved very ingeneous in accomplishing either option. Catholics turned a blind eye at ethnic clensing so long as catholics aren't being killed or threatened (hence the reference to the catholic concords w/ facists. Catholics will align w/ the worst of humankind to achieve the objectives of their cult...world domination. |
have you met David Ben-Ariel yet? You two are a match made in heaven... either there or the nuthouse.
My we ARE attracting a bunch of low-achievers, lately... |
Salam
This is typical reaction when lawyers don't have anything logical to oppose others view.
Allah hafiz mohtarma dio KHAN
Iran's secret weapon : POPE |
Lyzandra is quite obviously a bigotted anti-catholic ignoramus, what´s NOT to "oppose" in that? And if, as I presume, you meant "counter" her views - well, what ARGUMENTS but unsubstantiated generalising drivel does she bring, that one COULD counter with anything substantial?
It astonishes me NOT, that you sympathise with her. Like and like always flock together... |
Salam mohtarama
Anything that takes away holy prophet status of muhamMAD is good & too hard to resist besides I hate nazi-pope of yours.
Why don't Catholics come up with Islam as offshoot of say Hinduism may be?
I will support that too;khuda gawah. 
Allah Hafiz
_________________
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
Last edited by La Ilaha on Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| diotima64 wrote: |
| La Ilaha wrote: |
| diotima64 wrote: |
| Lyzandra Daria wrote: |
| arildno wrote: |
| Eeh, how can Islam be a "heresy" to some other equally false belief??? |
>>>
Catholics (obviously) don't consider their 'beliefs' to be false. My point is that catholics could come to also believe, as with the other 'heresies' that went the way of the sword, that Islam is actually an off shoot of catholicism which needs to be a) eradicated or b) brought into alignment. Catholics have proved very ingeneous in accomplishing either option. Catholics turned a blind eye at ethnic clensing so long as catholics aren't being killed or threatened (hence the reference to the catholic concords w/ facists. Catholics will align w/ the worst of humankind to achieve the objectives of their cult...world domination. |
have you met David Ben-Ariel yet? You two are a match made in heaven... either there or the nuthouse.
My we ARE attracting a bunch of low-achievers, lately... |
Salam
This is typical reaction when lawyers don't have anything logical to oppose others view.
Allah hafiz mohtarma dio KHAN
Iran's secret weapon : POPE |
Lyzandra is quite obviously a bigotted anti-catholic ignoramus, what´s NOT to "oppose" in that? And if, as I presume, you meant "counter" her views - well, what ARGUMENTS but unsubstantiated generalising drivel does she bring, that one COULD counter with anything substantial?
It astonishes me NOT, that you sympathise with her. Like and like always flock together... |
>>>
Your distain for my posts is chilling. I wonder why you and your ilk bother? Perhaps to make yourselves feel superior to us neanderthals?
(I smile compassionately)
>>>
_________________
"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)
Lyzandra |
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diotima64
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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YOU said you were a neanderthal.
am not gainsaing you. 
_________________
Ahmed the wife-beating bahgat moslem said:
"I said I will beat MY ILL CONDUCT WIFE if she insists on her ill conduct" |
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| diotima64 wrote: |
YOU said you were a neanderthal.
am not gainsaing you. |
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And...were you aware the neanderthal had a larger brain than homosapien? They also lived longer as a species than we have.
Letting me bate you isn't doing much for your image. I'm certain you will agree I'm not worth the effort.
>>>
_________________
"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)
Lyzandra |
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| La Ilaha wrote: |
| diotima64 wrote: |
| Lyzandra Daria wrote: |
| arildno wrote: |
| Eeh, how can Islam be a "heresy" to some other equally false belief??? |
>>>
Catholics (obviously) don't consider their 'beliefs' to be false. My point is that catholics could come to also believe, as with the other 'heresies' that went the way of the sword, that Islam is actually an off shoot of catholicism which needs to be a) eradicated or b) brought into alignment. Catholics have proved very ingeneous in accomplishing either option. Catholics turned a blind eye at ethnic clensing so long as catholics aren't being killed or threatened (hence the reference to the catholic concords w/ facists. Catholics will align w/ the worst of humankind to achieve the objectives of their cult...world domination. |
have you met David Ben-Ariel yet? You two are a match made in heaven... either there or the nuthouse.
My we ARE attracting a bunch of low-achievers, lately... |
Salam
This is typical reaction when lawyers don't have anything logical to oppose others view.
Allah hafiz mohtarma dio KHAN
Iran's secret weapon : POPE |
>>>
I appreciate the humor. But I don't think Dave and I trasvel in the same stratosphere these days. I'm not too concerned about the 2nd coming...since I don't believe there was a first (?)
Enjoy 
>>>
_________________
"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)
Lyzandra |
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Lyzandra is quite obviously a bigotted anti-catholic ignoramus, what´s NOT to "oppose" in that? And if, as I presume, you meant "counter" her views - well, what ARGUMENTS but unsubstantiated generalising drivel does she bring, that one COULD counter with anything substantial?
It astonishes me NOT, that you sympathise with her. Like and like always flock together...[/quote]
>>>
bigot def=a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
>>>
Maybe you just don't understand or appreciate sarcasm.
I have a 'healthy appreciation' for catholicism in particular and religions in general. I know to avoid them. They are very lethal in the wrong hands (like guns and bombs)...they can 'go off' unexpectedly and have devastating results.
No, I don't treat them with much respect (I'm quite confident the feeling is mutua)...and I would agree that my attitude toward 'believers' of any religion is obstinate and intolerant.
I shouldn't have to 'tolerate' superstitious ignorant theists trying to foist their beliefs on me or others not soliciting (or faining) interest. No one has the right to force me to believe their particular brand of superstition.
No one has the right to force me to believe their 'holy' book is anything more than a bad (incredibly depraved and repressive) novel that wouldn't get a publisher's interest if it (any of them) was presented as non-fiction today.
I don't belive in 'race' either, if I haven't made that clear. That is a socio-economic construct (i.e., man-made)
An ethnic group or ethnicity is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry. Ethnic identity is also marked by recognition from others of the distinctiveness of a group and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits.
So...I haven't been denegrating to anyone because of their ethnicity either. Please don't be so bitter...perhaps I'm serving a 'greater purpose' that you just don't want to or can't perceive.
I might have a 'devine' calling.
>>>
_________________
"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)
Lyzandra |
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IoshkaFutz
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 3895
Location: Caput Mundistan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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perhaps I'm serving a 'greater purpose' that you just don't want to or can't perceive.
I might have a 'devine' calling.
In your intro, you said that Atheism is the only answer YOU NEED.
I could say "Bacon Lettuce and tomato is the only food I need. It says a lot about me, but very little about nutrition and gastronomy. But whereas "Bacon Lettuce and Tomato" is at least SOMETHING vis-a-vis gastronomy and nutrition, Atheism is NOTHING regarding the big questions. So how can it fulfill any NEED? What does it provide you? How can nothing provide answers that you NEED? Perhaps answers that you accept, conclusions that you draw, but certainly nothing that you would NEED! Who cares about your needs? What I mean is, whether YOU only need ONE answer or a THOUSAND answers may be a point of curiosity, but can hardly have any bearing on truth or the general desirability / acceptability of a position.
So in the end it is really only about you.
You talk about religious people "foisting" when the very basis of your (non)religious view, one which by your own proud admission has made you obstinate and intolerant towards anyone of faith is a personal NEED.
That probably explains your closing: "PS: I am god and so can you." -
This is "foisting" to the extreme.
_________________
</islam> Whenever you guys shout "Allah Akbar" I find myself ducking for the floor - Haik Monsieur |
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| IoshkaFutz wrote: |
perhaps I'm serving a 'greater purpose' that you just don't want to or can't perceive.
I might have a 'devine' calling.
In your intro, you said that Atheism is the only answer YOU NEED.
I could say "Bacon Lettuce and tomato is the only food I need. It says a lot about me, but very little about nutrition and gastronomy. But whereas "Bacon Lettuce and Tomato" is at least SOMETHING vis-a-vis gastronomy and nutrition, Atheism is NOTHING regarding the big questions. So how can it fulfill any NEED? What does it provide you? How can nothing provide answers that you NEED? Perhaps answers that you accept, conclusions that you draw, but certainly nothing that you would NEED! Who cares about your needs? What I mean is, whether YOU only need ONE answer or a THOUSAND answers may be a point of curiosity, but can hardly have any bearing on truth or the general desirability / acceptability of a position.
So in the end it is really only about you.
You talk about religious people "foisting" when the very basis of your (non)religious view, one which by your own proud admission has made you obstinate and intolerant towards anyone of faith is a personal NEED.
That probably explains your closing: "PS: I am god and so can you." -
This is "foisting" to the extreme. |
>>>
aethism provides me with the freedom not to be blinded by superstitions. there is no heven/hell therefore my good/bad is only my good/bad; there is no resurrection of the dead; no god who is concerned about my sexual activities and dictating my gastronomic intense; no jinn; no satan judging my worthiness to enter heaven; no purgatory; no indulgences to buy for myself or family; no confession; no sin
So...my answer is simple...freedom. freedom to choose...freedom.
>>>
_________________
"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)
Lyzandra |
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IoshkaFutz
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 3895
Location: Caput Mundistan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I understand and I've heard it all before. These are conclusions that you and many others have reached. What is interesting in all this is the fact of NEED ("atheism... the only I answer I NEED") combined with freedom ("my good/bad is only my good/bad") further combined with a fixed attitude ("I would agree that my attitude toward 'believers' of any religion is obstinate and intolerant").
Well, if you NEED you are not free, but driven. If your good/bad is ONLY your good/bad you are little different in mindset from Stalin or Hitler or Mao or a serial killer on drugs. And if you are driven by rather reflexive a priori attitudes (obstanacy and intolerance) towards what others might believe, even your much vaunted freedom ("So...my answer is simple...freedom. freedom to choose...freedom") is boxed in. Very much so. You have made a fetish out of freedom which is just a blank page, arguably a very precious one in many instances, just we can say a very dangerous one in others, especially if good and bad are merely based on personal choices.
It is curious to note that the same person who says: "I have a 'healthy appreciation' for catholicism in particular and religions in general. I know to avoid them. They are very lethal in the wrong hands (like guns and bombs)...they can 'go off' unexpectedly and have devastating results." openly declares: "my good/bad is only my good/bad". We must all hope that the seven billion Lyzandra Darias of this world for whom "good/bad is only THEIR good/bad" come to the original's benign conclusions. Chances are they won't.
Chances are that restraint, regardless of its ideological / religious provenance is just as much a part of freedom as unfettered choice. In fact, I would even argue that the "restraint part" is where most of the interesting action is. It is the orthodoxy (the methododological restraints) of science which make science just as much as unfettered intuition (arguably the wildest of freedoms).
Examine your own world view and you will see many parallels with Islam. Slander? Not for me. My good/bad logic is my good/bad logic and truth is not outside myself. You have turned freedom into a Muslim's Allah. Their circular reasoning (Fords are the best cars because Ford Motor Company says so) is very much like yours: "my good/bad is only my good/bad." Why? Because Lyzandra Daria says so.
My congratulations for destroying civilization... but then again perhaps you ARE serving a greater purpose.
_________________
</islam> Whenever you guys shout "Allah Akbar" I find myself ducking for the floor - Haik Monsieur |
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diotima64
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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freedom, freedom, freedom... well, you certainly achieved freedom FROM thought of any kind... and use lots of words to express that.
p.s. you ALSO know, that men have a larger brain than women.
doesn´t mean they are more intelligent.
not that all of the sisters serve as a good example.
btw: what´s aethism? Never heard of it... sounds exciting!
_________________
Ahmed the wife-beating bahgat moslem said:
"I said I will beat MY ILL CONDUCT WIFE if she insists on her ill conduct" |
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La Ilaha
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1653
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
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How the Vatican created Islam
How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican.
The Prophet, Muhammad
This information came from Alberto Rivera, former Jesuit priest after his conversion to Protestant Christianity. It is excerpted from "The Prophet," published by Chick Publications, PO Box 662, Chino CA 91708.
Since its publication, after several unsuccessful attempts on his life, he died suddenly from food poisoning.
His testimony should not be silenced. Dr. Rivera speaks to us still...
"What I’m going to tell you is what I learned in secret briefings in the Vatican when I was a Jesuit priest, under oath and induction.
"A Jesuit cardinal named Augustine Bea showed us how desperately the Roman Catholics wanted Jerusalem at the end of the third century.
"Because of its religious history and its strategic location, the Holy City was considered a priceless treasure. A scheme had to be developed to make Jerusalem a Roman Catholic city.
"The great untapped source of manpower that could do this job was the children of Ishmael. The poor Arabs fell victim to one of the most clever plans ever devised by the powers of darkness.
"Early Christians went everywhere with the gospel setting up small churches, but they met heavy opposition. Both the Jews and the Roman government persecuted the believers in Christ to stop their spread. But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 AD, Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship…in fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24:2.
"On this holy placed today where the temple once stood, the Dome of the Rock Mosque stands as Islam’s second most holy place.
"Sweeping changes were in the wind. Corruption, apathy, greed, cruelty, perversion and rebellion were eating at the Roman Empire, and it was ready to collapse. The persecution against Christians was useless as they continued to lay down their lives for the gospel of Christ.
"The only way Satan could stop this thrust was to create a counterfeit "Christian" religion to destroy the work of God. The solution was in Rome. Their religion had come from ancient Babylon and all it needed was a face-lift. This didn’t happen overnight, but began in the writings of the "early church fathers."
"It was through their writings that a new religion would take shape. The statue of Jupiter in Rome was eventually called St. Peter, and the statue of Venus was changed to the Virgin Mary. The site chosen for its headquarters was on one of the seven hills called "Vaticanus," the place of diving serpent where the Satanic temple of Janus stood.
"The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth." Revelation 17:5. She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see.
"Three major religions have one thing in common – each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place.
"In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the "House of God," and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary. It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord with veneration until it became polluted with idols.
"In a tribal contention over a well (Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand – it disappeared. Many years later Adb Al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad.
"Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.
"Muhammad’s father died from illness and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.
"After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said, "Take your brother’s son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by god, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother’s son of yours."
"The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad. The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.
"Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition.
"Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Lookng to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work.
"Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome’s master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism. When "St Augustine" appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.
"The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope.
"In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:
'A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael.
'Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad’s advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.
'Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his "great calling." The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.
'While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.
'Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife’s Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad’s mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.
'Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia where Negus, the Roman Catholic king accepted them because Muhammad’s views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad’s revelations.
'Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols. History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah" An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in 1950’s shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.
'Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told, "You are the messenger of Allah." This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.
'Some of Muhammad’s writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.'
"When Cardinal Bea shared with us in the Vatican, he said, These writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam.
"Both sides have so much information on each other, that if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.
"In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was His representative on earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man."
"The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa. The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:
1. Eliminate the Jews and Christians (true believers, which they called infidels).
2. Protect the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics.
3. Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican.
"As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous…Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial! The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope — nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.
"Under Waraquah’s direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac’s name and inserted Ishmael’s name. As a result of this and Muhammad’s vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael’s honor on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 AD. This made Jerusalem the 2nd most holy place in the Islam faith. How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?
"The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah and now they turned toward Europe. Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries.
"The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope. He wouldn’t think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.
"The pope raised up his armies and called them crusades to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe. The crusades lasted centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope’s hands.
"Turkey fell and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad’s daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.
"Years later when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.
"As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world.
"It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish Arab countries.
"Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy, Bible-believing Christianm missionaries. Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of Scripture and the truth.
"A light control was kept on Muslims from the Ayatollah down through the Islamic priests, nuns and monks. The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully.
"The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.
"The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the church.
"The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location of this vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church.
"In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.
"Roman Catholics world-wide began praying for the conversion of Russia and the Jesuits invented the Novenas to Fatima which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world. The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.
"As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion and make Russia Roman Catholic." A few years after he lost World war II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phoney dancing sun vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.
"Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision. As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army world-wide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the blessed virgin.
"But we haven’t seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.
"What has this got to do with Islam? Note Bishop Sheen’s
statement: "Our Lady’s appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world’s 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she "is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary."
"He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ’s virgin birth, will come to believe in His divinity.
"Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church."
http://www.cloakanddagger.de/lenny/alberto_rivera.htm
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diotima64
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| published by Chick Publications, |
what more needs saying? About that worthless rant, OR you, La-lalla? 
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La Ilaha
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1653
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dioKhan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| published by Chick Publications, |
what more needs saying? About that worthless rant, OR you, La-lalla? |
You can start with Allah Hu Akbar.
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Lyzandra Daria
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 919
Location: Safe and sound
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| IoshkaFutz wrote: |
Yes, I understand and I've heard it all before. These are conclusions that you and many others have reached. What is interesting in all this is the fact of NEED ("atheism... the only I answer I NEED") combined with freedom ("my good/bad is only my good/bad") further combined with a fixed attitude ("I would agree that my attitude toward 'believers' of any religion is obstinate and intolerant").
Well, if you NEED you are not free, but driven. If your good/bad is ONLY your good/bad you are little different in mindset from Stalin or Hitler or Mao or a serial killer on drugs. And if you are driven by rather reflexive a priori attitudes (obstanacy and intolerance) towards what others might believe, even your much vaunted freedom ("So...my answer is simple...freedom. freedom to choose...freedom") is boxed in. Very much so. You have made a fetish out of freedom which is just a blank page, arguably a very precious one in many instances, just we can say a very dangerous one in others, especially if good and bad are merely based on personal choices.
It is curious to note that the same person who says: "I have a 'healthy appreciation' for catholicism in particular and religions in general. I know to avoid them. They are very lethal in the wrong hands (like guns and bombs)...they can 'go off' unexpectedly and have devastating results." openly declares: "my good/bad is only my good/bad". We must all hope that the seven billion Lyzandra Darias of this world for whom "good/bad is only THEIR good/bad" come to the original's benign conclusions. Chances are they won't.
Chances are that restraint, regardless of its ideological / religious provenance is just as much a part of freedom as unfettered choice. In fact, I would even argue that the "restraint part" is where most of the interesting action is. It is the orthodoxy (the methododological restraints) of science which make science just as much as unfettered intuition (arguably the wildest of freedoms).
Examine your own world view and you will see many parallels with Islam. Slander? Not for me. My good/bad logic is my good/bad logic and truth is not outside myself. You have turned freedom into a Muslim's Allah. Their circular reasoning (Fords are the best cars because Ford Motor Company says so) is very much like yours: "my good/bad is only my good/bad." Why? Because Lyzandra Daria says so.
My congratulations for destroying civilization... but then again perhaps you ARE serving a greater purpose. |
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Unfortinately neither Stalin or Hitler were raised athiest. Perhaps if they had been...but that's another topic for someone else to speculate about.
PS: Musolini was obviously raised catholic...as was Franco in Spain. Both countries are catholi. All four (H/S/F/M) entered into agreements w/ the catholic church. The catholic church was particularly (in Franco's case) interested in squashing democratic initiatives in Spain.
Therefore I dare to speculate that I am not like Stalin or Hitler. I not interested in repressing other people, sending them to gulag/concentration camp/crematorium.
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Lyzandra |
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