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ygalg
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 7401
Location: israel
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 Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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the topic of the thread is, whatever the binding Ishmael is a traditional or koranic cliam. the bible is irrelevant.
_________________
</islam>
Hajj Amin al-Husseini:
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them"
Qur'an 2:191:
"And kill them wherever you find them" |
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manfred
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 595
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yep, that proves the corruption, thanks for the coopertaion |
How so??? Would there be any point recommeding you a good first year Theology text on "historical method" and "biblical genre"?
You can't have it both ways. If the bible is corrupt it makes no sense for you to use it in an argument. Or are only those bits corrupt that do not fit your pre-conceived ideas?
Elsewhere you readily say that the Quran and bible texts are both important sources to you.
Well, the bible is categorigally clear about who the binding son is. So, if you want to use the bible as an aid to understand the Quran, you must conclude it was Isaac.
We both know that in fact Islam disagrees with that, even though the Quran at best allows the inference that it talks about Ishmael. You tell us that Mohammad clarified this elsewhere.
There is one simple hypothesis that could explain the phenomenon:
Mohammad heard the story of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael told, probably by a contemporary Jew or Christian.
Mohammad decided to re-tell the story with a new twist: he is going to write the Arabs and even the the Kaaba into it. He may also have heard elsewhere that Ishmael was the ancestor of all the Arabs, a notion which was branded about in various guises and places roughly up to the period of the Protestant reformation.
So, we get Mohammad's new twist on an old theme: the rolse of Isaac and Ishmael are reversed, and further details about Ishamael and Abraham added.
I do NOT accuse old Mo of lying here: He simply took and old mystical story and changed it to a new one which, from his point of view, would be much more interesting and relevant.
Most likely the oral version of Mohammad's new mythical story was told first, and the account that ended up in the Quran may lack some finer details and some of the shine of the oral story.
Now, no daubt you will shout for "proof". Well, it is only a hypothesis, but one that at least gives a plausible explanation of the sudden revision of an olf biblical account. |
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ygalg
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 7401
Location: israel
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| manfred wrote: |
You tell us that Mohammad clarified this elsewhere. |
that would be irrelevant to him. as his premise koran is all you need.
_________________
</islam>
Hajj Amin al-Husseini:
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them"
Qur'an 2:191:
"And kill them wherever you find them" |
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ygalg
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 7401
Location: israel
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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ahadith written 150 years after Muhammad's death.
that also brings me to conclusion, Berber's assertion on 'Ezra son of Allah' is fallacious.
_________________
</islam>
Hajj Amin al-Husseini:
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them"
Qur'an 2:191:
"And kill them wherever you find them" |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="manfred"]
| Quote: |
| Yep, that proves the corruption, thanks for the coopertaion |
read what you read again and you should know why so
| manfred wrote: |
| Would there be any point recommeding you a good first year Theology text on "historical method" and "biblical genre"? |
Not really because I will treat the bible as I treat the Quran, their contents are the only thing that will stand or admissed in any religious discussion, I'm not interested in any other conetent from ant other book
| manfred wrote: |
| You can't have it both ways. If the bible is corrupt it makes no sense for you to use it in an argument. |
Of course it makes great sense, if you will use the Bible as proves then you will need to refute the great errors in it.
| manfred wrote: |
| Or are only those bits corrupt that do not fit your pre-conceived ideas? |
My preconcieved ideas are only based on what I read in these two books and I provided the texts
| manfred wrote: |
| Elsewhere you readily say that the Quran and bible texts are both important sources to you. |
The Quran is enough for me, however beause the Bible is mentioned in the Quran supposedly under other names, I have no probs to believe in the passages that are qualified by the Quran.
| manfred wrote: |
| Well, the bible is categorigally clear about who the binding son is. |
No, your bible lied 3 to 4 times by calling Isaac the only son, even smart children won't buy that after presenting the facts, however I'm sure the kafir blonds will buy it.
| manfred wrote: |
| So, if you want to use the bible as an aid to understand the Quran, you must conclude it was Isaac. |
that is when you tell me how the hell God falut and say Isaac is Ibrahim only son, until you do so your crap above is dimsissed
look you talk too much crap and i have to dismiss it:
| manfred wrote: |
We both know that in fact Islam disagrees with that,
even though the Quran at best allows the inference that it talks about Ishmael. You tell us that Mohammad clarified this elsewhere.
There is one simple hypothesis that could explain the phenomenon:
Mohammad heard the story of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael told, probably by a contemporary Jew or Christian.
Mohammad decided to re-tell the story with a new twist: he is going to write the Arabs and even the the Kaaba into it. He may also have heard elsewhere that Ishmael was the ancestor of all the Arabs, a notion which was branded about in various guises and places roughly up to the period of the Protestant reformation.
So, we get Mohammad's new twist on an old theme: the rolse of Isaac and Ishmael are reversed, and further details about Ishamael and Abraham added.
I do NOT accuse old Mo of lying here: He simply took and old mystical story and changed it to a new one which, from his point of view, would be much more interesting and relevant.
Most likely the oral version of Mohammad's new mythical story was told first, and the account that ended up in the Quran may lack some finer details and some of the shine of the oral story.
Now, no daubt you will shout for "proof". Well, it is only a hypothesis, but one that at least gives a plausible explanation of the sudden revision of an olf biblical account. |
Dismissed
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hello manfred
Do not be upset because my very good friend, AhmadBahgat, has dismissed you. He has done it to me and virtually everybody else. He enjoys dismissing so much that I fully expect him to dismiss himself before long.
He`s not a bad lad really and he will soon abrogate your dismissal and start talking to you again. He abrogated my dismissal although I am still on the Wall of Shame.
sum |
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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Mersk wrote: |
Mr Baguette,
Try re-reading it again before someone dunk you!! - |
mersick
i edited it and fixed a few typos, now for the logical errors, i will leave that for you so I help you out to expose me, as if a dumb freak like ya who can't even ask a question properly can ever corner me
did you see your stupid face in the W O S?
here it is just in case:
http://www.free-islam.com/modules.php?name=WD_Wall_of_Shame
welcome to the W O S |
You won't call me sick when I slice your throat open in front of your children like a good Mohammaden that I am. See!!
I might just repeat what MAM taught me, that there is 'There no Compulsion in Religion' except in jihad. - You are still a focking moron for thinking people are not wise to Muslims lying about it.
Which focking MAMs do you know actually excercise and put in practice this glorious verses from Moham. Do you know of a specific country.
Maybe you want to put up his picture for jihadists to know whose throat to slice open in their jihad. I second it. Why would you want to object.
_________________
MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mersk wrote: |
You won't call me sick when I slice your throat open in front of your children like a good Mohammaden that I am. See!!
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Hmmm
you are very sick, I;m going to report you to the Ms
_________________
Click to read and watch my 10000 comment on FFI |
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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Mersk wrote: |
You won't call me sick when I slice your throat open in front of your children like a good Mohammaden that I am. See!!
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Hmmm
you are very sick, I;m going to report you to the Ms |
No worries mate .. anyone reading this in context like good Muslim would will know I'm making references to Muslims inability to condemn Moham's jihadists 'smite at necks' - Who do the 'Christians of the Book' report to!!
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MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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ygalg
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 7401
Location: israel
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: only son |
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Genesis 22.1: and will be after these words and the lord tried Abraham and say to him Abraham and say here I am.
Genesis 22.2: and say take please your son your alone that you love Isaac go for you to land of the moriah raise him there for burnt offering on one of the mountains that I tell you.
_________________
</islam>
Hajj Amin al-Husseini:
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them"
Qur'an 2:191:
"And kill them wherever you find them" |
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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Is slamdunking in session now?!!
_________________
MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hello All
I was told by Brainout on another forum that the only son means that Isaac was the only legitimate son of Ibrahim through his wife Sarah, now this complicates matters further, because according to the corrupt Genesis, Sarah was the half sister of Ibrahim, i.e. Isaac according to the corrupt Bible can not a legitimate son
What a slam dunk that is man, here it is:
Cheers
_________________
Click to read and watch my 10000 comment on FFI |
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brainout
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 811
Location: Not here, notify off
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Hello All
I was told by Brainout on another forum that the only son means that Isaac was the only legitimate son of Ibrahim through his wife Sarah, now this complicates matters further, because according to the corrupt Genesis, Sarah was the half sister of Ibrahim, i.e. Isaac according to the corrupt Bible can not a legitimate son
What a slam dunk that is man, here it is:
Cheers |
This behavior is beneath you, Ahmed. You must really be having a bad day. Well, Abraham had his bad days too, and he lied like you are now. In particular, about Sarai, because she was so beautiful, he was afraid he'd be killed -- at that time, he was no person to emulate, and that's the point of this "sister" thing. You don't have to be a sterling character, for God to save you. That's why I don't deal with all the arguments against Muhammed's own character: to me, it's the message, not the messenger.
Here are the sister verses in question. Let the reader judge between Bible, and you: Genesis 12:13, 19, 20:2, 20:5, 20:12 (where Abraham explains how he could twist the truth). Isaac repeated the same ruse for the same reason, Gen 26:9.
This doesn't do a thing to advance your argument pro the Koran. It makes you look desperate, instead. So you too, like Abram on a bad hair day, twist the truth. We all have such days, which is the point of those "sister" verses. I hope you will recover.
_________________
"Relax, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10.
Youtube vids on why Islam is bad: click here.
Prejudice eisegetes, but wisdom exegetes.
Last edited by brainout on Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AntiShariaProLiberalism
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Hello All
I was told by Brainout on another forum that the only son means that Isaac was the only legitimate son of Ibrahim through his wife Sarah, now this complicates matters further, because according to the corrupt Genesis, Sarah was the half sister of Ibrahim, i.e. Isaac according to the corrupt Bible can not a legitimate son
What a slam dunk that is man, here it is:
Cheers |
are u converting ppl to ur cult yet ahmed? I'm just curious. I keep encouraging u to get some conversions to ur cult! |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Hello brainout
I am having breakfast with the family outside I am using my blackberry to add a quick reply
Can't look at genesis now but I remember well that at the beggining ibrahim lied that sarah is his sister
However later on he came clear and told the king the truth and told him that she is his wife but half sister
Read it again please
Cheers
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