Looking forward to debate with imam Dr. Hamid,

ryan · Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 629

This is going to be interesting...

desi · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 238

razaw17 · Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 15

Wow, Mr.Sina you followers are very agrresive. Even malicious. Now I know my kaffir buddies are right! Hm, whenever I went into a mosque i was never insulted, but when i come to your site to exchange views, your goonies attack. I'm sure this is not you're fault Mr. Sina. Someone's ignorance cannot be blamed upon you.

Quote:
I know many iranians that cry for their grand Persia, but what is really that great?

What hit him in his head? why do arabs and pseudo arabs [pakistanis/banglis] cry for khalifah? was it really that great?

Hm, I never cried for the khalifah. And how dare you call me a psueo-arab? I'm very much punjabi. See, my ancestors were most likley in the indian sub-continent, and no where near the khalifs.

Quote:
Mullahs come from Zoroastrians.

muslims found a scrap goat!!

Actually desi, to solve a problem you must look into it. Using something as a "scapegoat" or excuse is not acceptable. Muslims need to take the good with bad. If we make a mistake we must improve it, or else we are to blame.

Desi as I can see your hate for muslims makes you ignorant. I just wanted to show Mr. Sina an article. Is it a crime? No one was saying "it's the zoroastrian's fault". Now, go have some fruit chatte and mangoo lusi. It might calm you and clear you brain of your ignorance to bash other people's identity/culture. Please get you're act together and act scholarly as Mr. Sina has said. I have no problem with you criticising islam, but if you're gonna start name calling, that's just stupid.

Mr. Sina, Dr. Hamid's son is getting married. The process takes a few days. I will address him of the debate in a few days. It's kind of rude to ask him now. You understand of course. His son has also went to Yale. He could debate you as well. For now I'll only ask Dr.Hamid.

Take care Mr.Sina

-raza waheed

Ali Sina · Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 4607

Dear Raza,

I am nobody’s leader and no one is my follower. I am the webmaster of this site and all these people are guests and members like you. They come here to exchange ideas. All of them agree with part of what I say and disagree with other parts, the proportion may vary from person to person.

My stragegy is that if someone is disrespectful to me I stop reading his messages. You can do the same.

I think we can wait until the Imam Dr. Hamid has more time and then we will debate. Meanwhile you may want to navigate this site and read some of the previous debates and articles posted here.

Keep well

Ali Sina
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own.

desi · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 238

scaredguy · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 1239

Muslims are killing muslims in mosques. Muslims are using mosques as arsenals and dens for terrorist conspiracies.

Mosques are teaching muslim children to become closed-minded and fascists at a young age.

FFI members are aggressive only in words and with words. Is that not a big difference?

What does an honest sociological analysis of islam-dominated societies reveal? That is the real crucial question which the muslims are avoiding. All discussions with muslims will make sense only after the muslims have honestly studied their societies and are not afraid to criticise islam openly if they should find troublesome conditions resulting from islam (theory and praxis).

All muslim participants must bring this honesty with them and not just what they have been vaingloriously indoctrinated by some ulema or mullah.

razaw17 · Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 15

Scared Guy, When you refer to muslims hiding in mosques, I assume you mean the iraqis. Iraqis are not fighting for islam, but their country. Even if they use their mosques as a sanctuary, the US still violates their relegious place. Did you see in the news of the falluja shooting? The man pretended to be dead and was shot on the spot. I don't care if you're muslim, jewish, christian, buddist but when you fight to protect your country I believe you are justified. Your logic is if a muslim commits an evil act, it is because of islam. If a christian commits an evil act it is because he was a bad person. This is where your double standards come in. Mr.Sina's argument is if Muhammad was a bad man, how can the religion be good? Muhammad encouraged believeing in the Quaran over his word. Someone's culture from over a thousand years ago, is obviously not going to satisfy one's needs in the 21 century. You have to follow the core beliefs. If one has wronged you, have justification for doing wrong to them. This is only if you don't decide to forgive them. I saw someone with the argument that Saudia Arabia forgives murders for money. That is true, however the family must say whether they accept the money or they want justice. If someones decides that they want money, it's their corrupt soul. You cannot blame islam for some one accepting the money.

Also you blame Muslims as being terrorists. It honestly depends on whose doing the labeling. Calling all muslims terrorists or all terrorists muslims is absurd. Palestinans are fighting for their homeland. It's true jehad when you're resisting. You cannot label palestinians as muslim terrorists, when many christians participiate in the attacks. The Al-Aqsa brigades are secular. Some may be muslim, but they want that to over-look the fact because they are all palestinians. Do you think someone whose land has been stolen is attacking people for fun or even in the name of Islam? I believe it is because they have been wronged and kicked out of their land. I may be wrong, but I believe the arab/muslim armies protected Jews from the crusaders. Look, we are all human. We all come from Adam and Eve and are Allah(swt)'s creations. We all have the same core beliefs and same core values. We all have the same neccesities. We need food, love, compassion, air, sleep, family ect. What the isrealis are doing to palestinans is not a jew against arab crime or a jew against muslim crime. It's a crime against humanity. What happened to jews in wwII wasn't a nazi crime against jews, but a crime against humanity. For iraqis, the americans are terrorists, for the palestinians the isrealis and vise versa.
You say many madrassa's teach hate. This is completley wrong. Many madrassa's in pakistan teach other subjects in school and prevent the hate. Many madrassa's in pakistan also teach hate, because of ignorant people who want to do something nice for poor kids. They try to explain Islam in the best of their abilities. The pakistani government is holding a radical over-haul of these madrassas and even closing them down fi they fail to meet up to standards.

To tell you the truth belief is something that cannot be proven,therefore it's a matter of believeing. If you people don't want to follow islam, then don't. You have the right to believe in whatever you want. But, trying to tell someone their religion is wrong, is WRONG . You have no right, and to insult their religion angers people. You then use this anger as the true face of Islam. Religion is a very personal thing and to insult someone's religion is like calling their mother a whore. Nobody stands for it. Take this into consideration. If someone thinks what i wrote is wrong, please point it out and tell me how i am wrong.

good day, not kaffirs, but HUMANS of the world.

dino · Joined: 29 Jun 2004 Posts: 152

scaredguy · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 1239

razaw

I never mentioned Irak in my post. I wrote a very general analysis of islam and its mosques - so-called houses of prayer.

You wrote an answer to my post without reading the whole of it carefully. This is not fair.

You are pleading that muslims should be allowed to believe whatever they wish to believe and in fact anyone may believe in whatever he wants to.

Seen superficially this looks like a grand program of wonderful tolerance.

But I must disappoint you dear razaw.

There are evil beliefs, dangerous beliefs, fascist beliefs, perverse beliefs, suicidal beliefs etc. etc. WE CAN'T TOLERATE THEM and WE SHOULD NOT TOLERATE THEM. And islam is one such belief which has lost the right to be tolerated.

Islam has had 1400 years time and a huge amount of resources to prove its true worth and islam has proved its true "worth" as a fascist arab-hegemonial and arab ethno-fascist imperialist ideology.

If you have not noticed that about islam then it is a result of your having been taught by muslim teachers in an intellectually closed environment.

I will be happy to read your opinion about this.

desi · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 238

I can't understand, how muslims can critize US invasion of iraq, when muslims are equally guilty of invading it!! if divinely guided chalifs can do it, so can bush!!

scaredguy · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 1239

Very good point desi.

Muslims are always complaining of others' imperialisms but fail to notice that islam is an imperialist ideology too. And islam is also fascist and arab-centred.

Muslims are incapable of honest introspection and self-criticism. Their "education" consists of islam-glorifying propaganda and nothing else.

razaw17 · Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 15

razaw17 · Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 15

Mr. Sina,

I contacted my imam, Dr.Hamid, and told him about the situation and circumstances. His reply was that "he doesn't want to waste his time, and I shouldn't either".He said that, "your claims are very old and have been refuted". "People like Mr. Sina, are trained to question Islam in these aspects. They want Muslims to use vast resources and time to debate with them. If you have any personal questions, come to the madrassa and I will tell you about them. I have wasted my time with closing down sites with debates, but the fact is these people are just here to demonize our religion. They can open another site, and this has been the case. The madrassa is where these debates should be upheld". Mr.Sina, Dr. Hamid told me to write down some questions and he will enlighten me at the madrasaa this sunday. He told me that personally he will teach anybody at the madrassa, even you Mr.Sina. His reply was that if Mr.Sina wanted the truth, he can go out of his way to go to a madrassa, or mosque. I informed him about the danger you face, because you might anger muslims. He reply to this was "People who really want the truth, wouldn't care." I will ask him the questions that you have on your site and inshallah, will come back after sunday, and with the answers. I'm sorry Dr.Hamid didn't debate with you, because I thought it would have been very interesting. He lectures in biology, and someone who lectures in biology would truly have a harder time believing in Islam, I'm supposing. I don't believe he was scared, or threatened by you. He had simply never heard of your site and said that he gave up with these sites a long time ago.

Hopefully, I'll have some of your answers by sunday.

good health and long life
-raza waheed

Ali Sina · Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 4607