Pete Rottier PhD vs. Ali Sina
Dear Mr. Sina,
I have recently found your website and your challenge. Please tell me, as I read the requirements one would need to prove to you that Muhammad was indeed a prophet of God–is this true? If so, then your challenge is a sham–how can a believer convince a non-believer? A Christian would have a hard time convincing a Jew that Jesus was the son of God, would they not?
You are right! There is no proof that any religion is true. However, no religion is forcing me to believe. Islam is the only religion that wants to conquer the world by Jihad and terrorism and impose itself on people by force. Muslims are killing innocent humans all over the world by hundreds of thousans for something they have no proof and it could be a total lie.
I do not mind people worshipping a phallus, as long as they don’t try to shove it in me. My problem with Islam is not that it is false. My problem is that Muslims want to shove their Allah in me by force. But I can’t take this much bull, and no amount of lubricant and sugarcoating help.
There have been over 13,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11, hundreds of thousands of deaths all over the world and more is to come. Why? Because the brain dead Muslims follow a psychopath who told them slay the non believers and you’ll get 72 white virgins and permanent erection. As stupid as Muslims are they have fallen for this lie, hook, line and sinker. What do you want us to do? Stand by, watch this senseless carnage of innocent lives and wait until our turn comes?
There are three choices: a) Do nothing until Islamic infestation spread throughout the world and we lose our freedom, our civilization and our lives. b) Rise up like the crusaders and show these rag headed savages that we can kill them better. c) Try to bring some sense in them and show them their filthy prophet was a mad man and they are not going to be rewarded by blowing up themselves and killing innocent people.
It is amazing that we have to even explain this to these brain dead zombies. Islam is insanity and Muslims are the stupidest creatures. Isn’t it obvious that one cannot be rewarded by killing other humans? Isn’t it stupefying that none of these Muslims asks himself, if God wants non-Muslims dead why he does not kill them himself? What kind of demonic god these animals worship?
Option ‘a’, is not an option. We the humanity, have earned our freedom with sacrifice and we are not going to give it up without a fight. Option ‘b’ is awfully painful because many innocent people will also perish. Option ‘c’ is the way we the ex-Muslims have chosen to solve this problem. We want to save the world from Islam and we want to save Muslims as well. We do not divide the world between ‘us’ and ‘them,’ Kafir and faithful. We divide it between ignorant people and enlightened people. Educating the ignorant people and trying to bring some sense to them is our choice.
Although many people think this is a slow process, I know that this is the fastest way. Even though the Muslims are a billion, they are still one billion individuals. It does no take an eternity to awaken an individual. Our challenge is how to reach them and this is becoming increasingly more feasible.
Muslims are waking up and are reclaiming their brains, their conscience, and their humanity. They are also coming to see that they are not apart from mankind but a part of it. That we are all one people and we should not let charlatans like Hitler and Muhammad sunder us and rouse one group against another.
Also, at another junction, you state that one needs to disprove your assertions that Muhammad was a madman, among other undesirable things. You accuse Muhammad of pedophilia but what criteria are you using? I’m sure you will want to chalk this up to moral or situational relevance but it is true that in 7th century Arabia a man’s prominence was directly associated with the number of wives as well as their youth and virginity. Like a CEO, athlete or entertainer, they keep score by how much money they make–this is what American society in the 20-21st centuries most values. So we look up to Bill Gates, Brett Favre, Michael Phelps, etc… and complain little that the obscene amounts of money they make could easily feed the hungary and send medicine to the sick.
Assuming amassing money is a bad thing, Gates and the other guys you named are not our prophets. We do not follow their examples.
Assuming pedophilia was vogue in the time of Muhammad, which is not true, why a man who claimed to be the best example and a messenger of God had to follow the evil practices of a people whom he called ignorant? By doing so he made their evil practices, norms for everyone. Muhammad even married his own daughter in law, the wife if his adopted son, to show that adoption is abomination. Why he could not just limit his sexual vagaries to grownups and not set that evil example for his brain dead followers to emulate to this day? Pedophilia is a despicable thing. It is not just immoral, but a mental disorder.
It is likely that in centuries to come American greed will be frowned upon as immoral. So my point is that you must separate the cultural attributes from the religious ones.
Greed is not American. It is human. As a matter of fact Muslims are far greedier than any nation. When a disaster hits a Muslim country, such as the last tsunami, few Muslim countries help, while the non-Muslims, particularly the Americans are at the forefront of sending humanitarian aids. The stingy Arab Sheiks are rolling in money that they did not earn, but they will not help their fellow Muslims. Gates has a humanitarian foundation helping children in many poor countries.
We all know greed is bad and have known this for thousands of years. There is no need to wait for future to reveal to us what we have always known.
Muhammad was also a greedy man. While Gates and others have earned their wealths legally, Muhammad became wealthy by plundering. Which one is worse? Gates became rich because you and I bought his products. He did not force us to buy them. Muhammad raided and looted unwary and unprepared people. Where is your conscience Mr. PhD, University Lecturer?
Pedophilia is far more evil than greed. You cannot even compare them. It’s a despicable crime. The pedophile is a monster that has to be separated from the society. I know pedophiles are victims of childhood abuse. This may very well have been also the reason Muhammad developed such a deviant sexuality. Nonetheless, I would rather euthanize all the pedophiles to save their victims and end this vicious cycle. Whether you agree with me or not is another point, but no one but a brain dead Muslim can think a pedophile can be a messenger of God and that he is a good example to follow.
You also need to be able to put actions you attribute to Muhammad in their proper context, including determining who wrote the Hadiths, and under what circumstances. Even the Qur’an was not recorded to paper until well after Muhammad’s death, which begs the question of whether all the recitations were actually made through Muhammad.
Can you please explain in what context a 54 year old man is justified to have sex with an 8 years 9 months old child? Does the context that the pedophile is a prophet of God makes this shameful act right?
The hadiths were collected by the devout Muslims. There is no reason to assume they lied to malign their own prophet whom they loved more than their own lives. This makes no sense.
Also if you want to doubt the hadiths and even the Quran then what makes you believe Muhammad was real? The whole thing could have been made up?
And how can we reconcile your claim that the Quran is corrupted with the Muslims’ claim that it is a miracle because it has not been changed? In either case I can show that Islam is a lie.
Let’s take the case of Hadith literature. You seem to indicate that since the sunna is a source of Islamic Law it is part of the canon of divine writings for Islam. This is not the case. Many people wrote Hadith literature to justify their own actions and projected these on the prophet of Islam. While the various Hadiths have been codified to try to weed out the ‘fabricated’ Hadiths, they were codified under the rule of Caliphs and Emirs who had a stake in what they said.
Many people wrote hadiths to justify their own evil actions? Is this a logical argument or even plausible? The Gosples were also collected many decades after the death of Jesus. Why the Christians did not do such thing? How stupid you think we are Sir? Just think of these scenarios. A Muslim says I love little girls so I am going to visit Imam Bukhari and tell him I heard tje Prophet had sex with Aisha when she was nine. The other Muslim loves to rape women, he goes to Bukhari and tells him that Muhammad raided villages, butchered the men and allowed his followers to rape the women. He himself also took pretty girls, Juwairiyah , Rayhana and Safiyah from the captives and raped them. Another Muslim wants to torture people; he makes up the stories of Qinana and the Bedouins and says that Muhammad tortured them to death. It’s not just one narrator, but hundreds of them that confabulate the same lies. Now the miracle is that these narrators did not know each other. Another wonder is that they managed to fool, not only one eminent collector of hadith, like the great Bukhari but all of them. And all these luminareis and scholars were so dumb that did not realize these people are lying and libeling their beloved prophet with such gross accusations. Indeed you are a smart man.
Your reasoning is really mind boggling. But if you could think better, you would not be writing to me defending Islam.
These are also not the main religious texts of Islam. Indeed, they only are of concern to those interested in Islamic jurisprudence. The Hadith do not concern the day to day activities of Muslims–but give judges–the qadi, a source to look for solutions to Islamic problems. The biggest concern I have is that most of the 4 sunni schools of jurisprudence were sealed in the 10-11th century by a set of commentaries that even the originators of the schools would have objected to (Hanifi, Shafi, Hanbali, and Maliki).
The laws are not just to read in the courts. They are to practice on day to day basis. You go to court when you fail them. Let us say the law says Muslims must not eat during the month of Ramadan in Public. This is a day to day law. When you break it you are taken to a religious judge who will order that you should be beaten. A 14 years old boy sucummed to severe beating in Iran and died when was endured 100 lashes for eating during the month of Ramadan in public. If you are caught shoplifting your hand is to be chopped. If you have sex out or marriage you can be stoned to death. Islam is a way of life, and it applies to every aspect of one’s life. It is all about the observance of the laws and it is day to day and minute to minute law.
Since the 19th century Modernist Muslims have wanted to be able to modernize their societies by ridding their societies of this narrow view of Islam. They saw nothing wrong with women’s rights, co-existence with other religions, etc… Even the Ottoman Empire made provisions that accorded equal status to non-Muslims in the 19th century (Russia still had the Pale of Settlement until 1905–thereby controlling where Jews could live and what jobs, education they could obtain).
There can be no modernization in Islam. Modernization is bid’a and it is strictly prohibited in the Quran (2:85, 6:114, 6:116, 2;174,16:89 39:23, 15: 90-92, 6:34, 10:64, 18:27). See this article also. That is why every attempt to modernize Islamic societies at the end fails. We Iranians have been trying to modernize our country for over 100 years. We failed miserably every time because Islam was in our way. It is like trying to swim while fastening a heavy weight to your body. You get pulled down and drawned. There cannot be modernization and democracy in Islamic countries as long as Islam is there. Furthermore if you like modernization why do you advocate for Islam? These two are mutually exclusive. You make no sense.
Only by looking at a much broader picture can you understand Islam. You seem to look directly and literally at a few sources and paint the whole religion with this view. It is simply not true.
What is this ‘broader picture’ that every Muslim sees and no one can describe it? Why after 1400 years this ‘broader picture’ has not materialized and why when a country becomes more Islamic it also becomes more backwards, democracy disappears, human right are violated, women are dehumanized and education and well being suffer?
Does this ‘broader picture’ contradict the Quran? Then to the extent that it does, it is not Islam. If it is based on the Quran then we already know how it looks. The Saudis, the Taliban and the Iranian mullahs have given us a clear picture of how a Quran practicing society looks. We do not want that crap.
By the way, I would be happy to debate you but I am not a scholar of Islam per say. I have a PhD from the University of Wisconsin in Central Asian History but largely look at the growth of nationalism in Central Asia at the turn of the 20th century. My training is in both Russian and Modern Islamic history. I am sure I do not qualify as a prominent scholar and I am not Muslim–so I do not believe Muhammad is a prophet from God myself.
Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on my opinion.
Pete Rottier, PhD
Senior Instructional Designer
Center for eLearning
Department of History
Cleveland State University
If you are not a Muslim why in the hell you defend this filth? Go and live for a few years in Iran or in Saudi Arabia and then let us see if you still have anything good to say about Islam.
I am sure you are familiar with the term ‘useful idiot.’ It is credited to Lenin. (This is not certain.) It is said that Lenin called those Americans who defended communism and denied its police-state terror, while loving their own freedom, ‘useful idiots.’ Lenin knew there is no freedom under communism. Another version says that he called the capitalists ‘useful idiots’ for willing to “sell us the rope with which to hang them.” In any case the term useful idiot refers to those who assist the enemy without having a clue of his real agenda. Useful idiot is a traitor, but one who acts out of naiveté.
The westerners who defend Islam, while at the same time like their own freedom and do not want to live under Islamic law are the real useful idiots. All one has to do to see the real agenda of Islam and Muslims is to listen to them. All one has to do is to read the Quran. That book is boring but you get enough idea just from the chapter 9, which is the last will and testament of Muhammad. The agenda of Islam is laid out in many hadiths and in the Quran, and particularly in the chapter 9. Listen to the sermons in the mosques and read the placards of Muslim demonstrators. One must be really deaf and blind to not know what Muslims want. They want domination, stupid.
So you want a debate with me! Well the fact that you have a PhD does not tell me anything. I lost any respect I had for this title the day I got mine. I never use it with my name and prefer to be called Ali Sina, or Mr. Sina. As Italians say, “i dottori sono molti, i signori sono pochi“ (Doctors are many, gentlemen are few.) If you want to debate with me, please read my book first. I am sure that book will wake you up. I don’t want your money. I will send it to you for free. I know you’ll make a donation after reading the book because you’ll be so thankful.
Two kinds of people convert to Islam – ignorant people, and evil people. We have the antidote for ignorance and have helped many such people to find their brains. As for evil people, they are better left in Islam. Fortunately there are a lot more ignorant people in the world than evil ones. Muslims are no exception.
I hope belong to this bigger category and your next letter will be a thank you letter. Ignorance is easy to cure. Please don’t write unless you finish the book. This could save a lot or my time and a lot of embarrassments for you.
All the best
Short URL: http://www.archive2012.faithfreedom.org/?p=5229