FaithFreedom.org

Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 6

Donald Morgan

ALI SINA’S ARGUMENTS

In Ali Sina’s book he references quotations from the Quran in a desperate attempt to undermine Muhammad’s character. On page 61 Ali Sina gives us his interpretations, which are misleading to say the least, on certain verses from the Quran. What I would like to do now is quote Ali Sina and see if that is what the Quran is implying.

1.     Ali Sina says the following:

Muhammad regarded himself as Khayru-l-Khalq (the Best of Creation), an “excellent example” (Q.33:21)

Chapter 33, verse 21 says the following:

 

‘indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the last day and remembers Allah much’

 

Where does it reference Muhammad as being the best of creation here? The verse simply says that one should emulate Muhammad, if he/she hopes to meet Allah. Like true Christians who strive to emulate Christ, Muslims strive to emulate Muhammad.

 

 

Ali Sina

 

The term Khayru-l-Khalq is not in the verse 33:21. That verse talks about Muhammad’s “excellent example.” You can find this title in many Islamic sites such as   http://www.livingislam.org/n/bc_e.html which says,

One of the names by which the Prophet Muhammad is known – upon him blessings and peace – is Khayru-l-Khalq or “Best of Creation.” Other similar names of him with identical meaning are Khayru-l-Bariyya, Khayru Khalqillah, Khayru-l-`Alamina Turra, Khayru-n-Nas, Khayru Hadhihi-l-Umma, and Khîratullah. These titles refers to his high status over all human Prophets and Messengers as well as over the Jinn and angels – upon them peace.

 

Even if you argue that this title is not in the Quran, there are plenty of other similar titles that highlight Muhammad’s sense of self importance and grandiosity in the Quran that I have quoted in my book.   

 

  

Donald Morgan

2.     Ali Sina then says the following:

 

explicitly or implicitly hinted to be “exalted above other prophets in degrees” (Q.2:253)

 

Chapter 2, verse 253 says the following:

 

‘Those messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of the Allah spoke (directly); others he raised to degrees (of honor); and to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), we gave clear proofs and evidences and supports him with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel)’

 

Where does it say explicitly or implicitly that Muhammad is exalted above all others? The verse simply says that Allah has preferred some prophets over others. God spoke to Moses directly and sent revelations to Noah and others. This verse is explaining god’s various degrees of interaction with his prophets. It does not say what you claim it says Ali Sina.

 

 

 

Ali Sina

 

The verse 2:253 says

تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم

This verse translates as: “Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others.”

 

Did Muhammad consider other prophets to be superior to him?  No. While describing his hallucinatory journey to Heaven, Muhammad claimed that he led a congregational prayer where all the prophets lined up behind him and he was their imam.  This clearly shows his desire to be seen as superior to other prophets.

 

Narcissists hide behind a façade of false modesty, but they reveal their true sense of grandiosity and entitlement through anecdotes and hints.  So on one hand Muhammad would say there is no difference between the prophet (that is when he wants to elevate himself to their rank). On the other hand he made up stories to give the idea that he is superior to them, without saying this openly. If Muslims tell you that they regard Muhammad at the same rank of Moses and Jesus, they are lying. Muslims praise is only for Muhammad and NEVER for Jesus, Moses or any other prophet.

 

Donald Morgan

 

3.     Ali Sina then says the following:

 

He claimed to be “the preferred one” (Q.17:55)

 

Chapter 17, verse 55 says the following:

 

‘And your lord knows best all who are in the heavens and the earth. And, indeed, we have preferred some of the prophets above others, and to Dawud (David) we gave the Zabur (Psalms)’

 

Where does it refer to Muhammad as being the preferred one in this verse? The explanation of this verse is exactly the same as the explanation of the verse quoted before this one. Indeed god has interacted with the prophets in different ways. He spoke directly to some, like Moses and indirectly, through Gabriel to others, like Jesus and Muhammad.  This verse, and the one before it speak to various levels in which God interacted with his prophets.

 

 

Ali Sina

 

The same response about Question 3 applies also here. In these verses we see Muhammad is establishing the claim that some prophets are afzal, i.e. superior to other prophets. Once that premise is established then through hints like the story of Mi’raj and how other prophets revered him and how no other prophet but him is given the power of intercession he made his hidden agenda known. These are all part of the manipulative game that narcissists play. Not really difficult to detect. Children often are expert in these mind games. We played these mind games ourselves when we were children.  

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

 

4.     Ali Sina then says the following:

 

to have been risen “to a praised estate” (Q.17:79) – a station which he said none but he would receive – and this is the Station of Intercession at the right hand of the Almighty next to his Glorious Throne. In other words, he would be the person who would advise God as to who should be sent to Hell and who should be admitted to Heaven.

 

Chapter 17, verse 79 says the following:

 

‘And in some parts of the night (also) offer the salat (prayer) with it (i.e recite the Quran in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer – Nawafil) for you (O Muhammad). It may be that your lord will raise you to Maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory, i.e the highest degree in paradise)’

 

This verse clearly says that Muhammad will be raised to the highest degree in paradise but it does not say he will be at the right hand of the almighty and it does not say he (Muhammad) will be charged with advising god as to who should be entered into heaven and who should be sent to hell, as Ali Sina says it does. Ali Sina’s explanation, however, comes to us from a Hadith but Ali Sina’s interpretation of that Hadith is incorrect.

 

 

 

Ali Sina

 

So what is your point? Are you saying that I am libeling Muhammad and he did not claim to be the intercessor in the Day of Judgment?

 

The claim that Muhammad has the power of intercede may not be explicit in this verse but it is in many other verses, such as 2:255, 10:3, 19:85-87, 20:109, 21:25-29, 34:23. This subject is exhaustively discussed in my debate with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and Dr. Khalid Zaheer. Anyone interested can read that debate here.   

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

If we look at Sahih Bukari, Vol. 6, Hadith No. 242 we read:

 

‘Narrated Ibn Umar: ‘On the day of resurrection the people will fall to their knees and every nation will follow their prophet and they will say, “O so-and-so! Intercede (for us with Allah)”, till (the right) of intercession will be given to the prophet (Muhammad) and that will be the day when Allah will raise him to maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory).’

 

Where does it state that Muhammad will be at the right hand of the almighty here, as Ali Sina says? The reason Ali Sina purposely says this is to incite hatred towards the Muslims from the Christians because the Christians believe that Jesus alone is at the right hand of the almighty. Shame on you Ali Sina for trying to incite such anger amongst your Christian readers!

 

 

 

Ali Sina

 

Who do you think you are to say shame on me? I wasted so much time responding to you drivel and this is my reward. This is the same person who started his message saying he wants to have a scholarly debate. You don’t know what that word meas.. 

 

Muhammad denies Jesus’s claim to be the son of God, and pooh-poohs a fundamental teaching of Christianity, which is the Ttrinity. He denies that Jesus was crucified. He calls the Christians “gone astray” and invokes on them the wrath of God (Q. 1:7) Muslims recite this verse every day as their prayer. Muhammad said, may Allah destroy the Christians for calling Jesus son of God. (Q.9:30) He tells his zombie followers to fight the Christians and the Jews “until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.”(Q.9:29) He says their religion will not be accepted and in the next world they will be among the losers (Q. 3:85). And at least three times he calls the Jews pigs and monkeys. None of these blesphemies, insults and incites are hatemongering, not even the continuous persecution, genocide and massacre of the Christians throughout the Muslim wolrd. But if I point out to the fact that Muhammad considered himself superior to Jesus that is hate mongering and this jerk takes the liberty to insult me. See what Islam does to people?    

 

Donald Morgan

Also, what is meant by intercession? It does not mean that Muhammad will have say over who goes to paradise and who goes to hell. It simply means that Muhammad will intercede on behalf of every man, in an attempt to gain favor from Allah for that man. Think of it like a courtroom; where Allah is the judge and mankind is the defendant. Who in the courtroom intercedes for the defendant? The defense lawyer, of course. The defense lawyer tries his/her best to show that their client, the defendant is innocent and should be set free. The same applies here; Muhammad will intercede on behalf of mankind to try and show god that every person is worthy of paradise. Although Muhammad will do this, it doesn’t ensure that a person will enter paradise as the final judgment belongs to Allah and Allah only.

 

 

Ali Sina

 

 I had this discussion with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamedi and he is one of the top scholars of Islam. He could not solve this problem. Go and read that debate before making more fool of yourself!

 

Muhammad will intercede on behalf of Mankind? Is he kinder than God to humanity? 

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

Do these verses in the Quran prove Muhammad suffers from NPD? If you believe Ali Sina’s lies, half truths and twisted interpretations then it may but if you, the reader investigates these facts, you will undoubtedly see that these examples Ali Sina gives prove nothing for his case. I am not surprised that Ali Sina would resort to this type of dirty tactic. In my vast experience in debating the Christian missionary, I have found that people who try to disprove Islam do so by providing lies, half truths and twisted interpretations. It is indeed a shame that such obvious tactics are still being used by the likes of Ali Sina to try and prove a point!

 

If you have Ali Sina’s book go this page and notice the fact that what I mentioned above was not fully quoted from the Quran. Ali Sina has simply made a statement and attached a Quranic reference to it. Why Would Ali Sina do this? Why wouldn’t he quote the entire verse he attaches to his statement, so the readers can read it and agree/disagree that this is what the Quran says? Ali Sina is hoping that his reader will take what he says as being the truth. Once again, he is depending on his readers lack of investigation into what the Quran says in the attached Quranic references he provides. If you look at the bottom of this page he quotes the Quran to try and prove a point. Why wasn’t this done with the previous Quranic references he gave on the same page?

 

 

 

Ali Sina

 

Whenever I say something is in the Quran I give a reference. The Quran is a book that is available to anyone. It is only a click away. Any person whose brain is not clogged by religious cholesterol can see that the verses say exactly what I say. I have tried to make sure that as much as it is possible all the references in my book (there are close to 400) can be found on the Internet so people can easily verify them. In a few cases, such as when I had to quote the Tabaqat or Tabari, the references are made to my books. I could not find these books online.   

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

Ali Sina also makes several fallacious statements about Muhammad. He desperately tries to disguise his own opinion about Muhammad by indirectly inferring that what he says comes from a reputable source. I want the reader to remember that the quotations I pull from Ali Sina’s book have NO footnote or reference from an alternative source. These are merely the biased opinions of Ali Sina. As we all know, anyone can have an opinion, but is that opinion sound? In these cases they are not sound because Ali Sina fails to provide proof or footnotes to back up his sensational claims.

 

Ali Sina says the following statements about Muhammad, without reference:

 

Page 62 (sayings of Muhammad)

‘The very first thing that Allah Almighty ever created was my soul.’

‘First of all things, the Lord created my mind.’

‘Just as Allah created me noble, he also gave me noble character.’

 

 

Ali Sina

 

The reference to these quotes are included in the footnote of my book. You failed to pay attention. Here is the passage. 

 

 

·         The very first thing that Allâh Almighty ever created was my soul.

·         First of all things, the Lord created my mind.

·         I am from Allâh, and the believers are from me.1

·         Just as Allâh created me noble, he also gave me noble character.

·         Were it not for you, [O Muhammad] I would not have created the universe.2

 

1-     The first three sentences are in http://www.muhammadanreality.com/creationofmuhammadanreality.htm

2-     The last two sentences are in Tabaqat V. 1, p. 364

 

You are a sloppy researcher.

 

I am quite aware how Muslims, failing to respond to my charges, will do their best to find a single minor error in my book to discredit it altogether. So I took care that everything I say is referenced properly. 

 

 

Donald Morgan

Page 66

‘Ironically, Muhammad preached against associating partners with Allah, when, in fact, he portrayed himself as the partner of Allah in a manner which made them logically and practically inseparable.’

 

What Ali Sina has done is cunning and calculating in nature. He has mixed what he contends is ‘factual’ information along with his own baseless and fallacious opinion in an attempt to make blurry what is fact and what is fiction. There are many other places in this chapter where Ali Sina tries to mix his own unqualified opinion with ‘factual’ information so that the reader can’t distinguish or make the difference between the two. If these examples of your fallacious opinions are indeed factual in nature, provide us with a reputable reference that says what you say Ali Sina!

 

 

 

Ali Sina

 

You are wrong and blinded by your hatred. The following is the comment of one of the readers on my book published on Amazon.com’

 

“No facts are assumed in this book. Opinions are stated as opinions and facts stated as facts and questions stated as questions. The only pursuit involved in this book is that of the absolute truth for a logical mind.”

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

Not only does Ali Sina resort to this dirty tactic when describing Muhammad, he does so with regards to what narcissism or NPD really is. He injects his own unqualified opinions on narcissism and NPD in very much the same way. He tries to, once again, mix his opinion with what he calls ‘factual’ information (I already proved that his main source Dr. Sam Vaknin, fake Ph.D is not a qualified or reputable source) in an attempt to make the two undistinguishable. Here are some examples of this dirty tactic. Again, notice that there are NO footnotes or references mentioned for his opinion, disguised as facts.

 

 

Ali Sina

 

Now, that is funny. So you are also questioning my knowledge of NPD? What is your qualification?   The only knowledge you have about this subject is by following the link that I gave you to DSM and reading one page from that manual.  You have even the chutzpa to berate Dr. Vaknin, when he is hailed by major scientific journals and his opinion is sought by at least 1000 mental health professionals? Shouldn’t you stick to Islam and discuss Muhammad’s pedophilia instead?  Who are you to question Vaknin when there is not a single mental health professional that disagrees with his definition of NPD?  But a jerk like you who has read just one introductory page to NPD from DSM is already qualified to decide who is qualified and who is not.

 

Do you really have to opine on things you have no clue? It only makes you look foolish!

 

 

 

Donald Morgan

Page 63

 

‘A narcissist may seem to be self-confident and even accomplished. In reality he (narcissists are predominantly male) suffers from a great deficit of self-esteem and needs an outside supply of adulation, constantly seeking admiration.’

 

Page 65

 

‘The Narcissist knows that direct self-promotion will be seen as repulsive and will be rejected. Instead, he presents himself as a modest, almost self-effacing person, one in the service of God, nation or humanity.’

 

Page 68

 

‘Narcissists invent fictitious gods and spurious causes. The more they elevate their false deities and glorify their causes, the more power they can obtain for themselves.’

 

These, and other statements are nothing more than the ravings of Ali Sina, as they do not come from a secondary source. Although Ali Sina makes indirect reference to Dr. Sam Vaknin, he does not come out and say that this is what Dr. Sam Vaknin says. Even if he were to do so, I’ve already exposed Dr. Sam Vaknin as being unqualified to speak on the subject of mental disorders. So Ali Sina’s statements are based on an unqualified source, making them invalid as factual information.

 

 

 

 

Ali Sina

So now you are also a mental health professional and question my definition of narcissism!?  Can you ask someone with an actual diploma to dispute those definitions? How can you disagree with what I say when you have no university qualification whatsoever and not just in psychology? I know close to nothing about physics. Wouldn’t it be foolish of me to write a dissertation trying to refute Steven Hawkins? What if I read a few pages on the subject from an online site? No, still I would not be qualified to opine on Hawkins or physics.  My brother in law is a highly reputable psychiatrist. He is topnotch and one of the best. He is expensive. In one day he makes more money than most professionals make in a month. But narcissism is not his field, so he refused to opine on a subject that is not his specialty. But a Mr. nobody like you can already qualify and disqualify professionals who are highly respected by their peers.  If I am not mistaken Gabriel must be visiting you too. The other illiterate man who knew everything and had the knowledge of the unseen was Muhammad.

 

Short URL: http://www.archive2012.faithfreedom.org/?p=5057

Posted by on Apr 2 2009. Filed under Debates. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

510 Comments for “Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 6”

  1. Websites worth visiting…

    [...]here are few links to websites that we link to because we think they are worthed[...]……

  2. Links…

    [...]Sites of interest we have a link to[...]……

  3. how to get an orgasm article…

    [...]we came across a cool internet site that you just may well take pleasure in. Take a appear should you want[...]…

  4. Online Article……

    [...]The info mentioned in the article are useful [...]……

  5. tv series…

    [...]always a large fan of linking to bloggers that I really like but do not get a great deal of link love from[...]…

  6. ibrahim

    Ali Sina says

    Muhammad will intercede on behalf of Mankind? Is he kinder than God to humanity?

    This is one of those things which used to irk me a lot when I was still a Muslim. IS there something an all poweful, an all knowing god is unaware of that he needs a mere man to tell him. Unlike Jesus Muhammad never said that he is here to sacrifice himself for all mankind. So where does the question iof intervention arise?
    Is the all powerful god so naive as that he needs a man to tell him whether someone should go to hell or heaven. This again proves the same fact that Muhammad thought of himself the best of creation and hence his fake God would let him intecede on the behaf of Muslims.
    Donald Morgan has been fed on excessive amounts of Islamic Apologist literature and I have a sneaking suspision that he the front face for someone else, who does not want to reveil his true identity.

  7. ibrahim

    I was fortunate enough to be part of a reseach conducted on the various cults prevelant in India, and most of our findings were in tandem with Ali Sina's conclusions. Just for the sake of clarity, some higly qualified mental heath care professionals, psycotherapists were a part of the team.
    Infact most of the Cult Leaders are greedy men and all of them are narcissits. However they are for the most part harmelss, especially if they are hindu cult leaders.
    I am not patronising Ali Sina, as I don;t agree with many of his theories, like Islam can be discolved peacefuly, however his findings about Muhammad and narcissism are as precise as they can get.

  8. scrutator

    Paki_islamist Says:

    April 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
    "Jewry is neither a race nor a mixed race. It is a confusing mixture of races, racial mixtures, and racial fragments, artificially held together by its rabbis. It acts as a kind of counter-race, which can only destroy, never build. Jewry is the product of the inbreeding of asocial, criminal, sick, degenerate and rejected elements of every possible race in the ancient world. Jewry is neither a race nor a people nor a religion in our sense of those words. He possesses no homeland, but leads a rootless, parasitic life at the expense of the host peoples. Its current homeland is largely the criminal neighborhoods of the great cities of the world, its god is money, its policy is revolution and the destruction of the cultural treasures of mankind."

    I am astounded by the pathological hatred towards Jews shown by the muslims. The reason for this, ostensibly, is that the Jews refused to accept Mohammed as their prophet …. Is anyone surprised ? Who in their right minds would leave the religion and traditions of their forefathers and accept those of a new dubious 'prophet' ? And more so, after what Mohammed did to the Jews ! He butchered the Jewish tribes, raped their women and left instructions which resulted in Arabia being cleansed of all Jews ( and Christians). Before and during Mohammed's time, Arabia (inc. Mecca and Medina) was an epitome of multiculturalism where non-muslim Arabs, Jews, Christians and others lived together peacefully. Mohammed changed all that, clearly he was no great supporter of multiculturalism and neither are today's muslims !

    The Quran has sowed the seeds of everlasting enimosity between the muslims and the Jews. And what has been the result ? The achievements of 1.2 billion muslims are no match to those of less than 20 million Jews, on any grounds whatsoever. Militarily, financially and business wise, academically, in terms of political influence, in matters of sports, music, in fact in any field, the ,muslims simply do not size up to the Jewish people.

    I write this impartially, since I am neither Jewish nor muslim,but the results are there for all to see !

  9. Marie

    Proudchristian wrote:

    Salvation attained through works and one must work hard to earn it
    (including killing people who believe differently)

    Salvation is only obtained through one way in Islam and that is blowing yourself up.

  10. Marie

    venex wrote:

    Can someone tell me, if Allah (God) reveled the Quran, why is it that it deals with only people of the book, Jews and Christians and does not even mention Hinduism, even in passing, which was at its height and over 1000 years old at the time of MO.?

    Hindus are known as sabeans in the Quran.

  11. Marie

    ibrahim wrote:

    This is a trait which you will never find in a Christian, Jew or a Muslim. All three of them consider the earth as a provision to them them from their imaginary deity.

    Christians do not consider the earth as a provision to them, we believe the earth belongs to all people. You must be confusing Christianity with Islam.

  12. Ali Sina

    # 22
    Paki Islamist wrote, "Jewry is the product of the inbreeding of asocial, criminal, sick, degenerate and rejected elements of every possible race in the ancient world."

    Isn't it funny that such a mixture of low life criminals can beat Muslims in every sense, intellectually, economically, scientifically,… you name it.

    How about Muslims start inbreeding some criminals, sick, degenerate and rejected elements among them to see whether they can produce a few geniuses and Noble Prize winners?

  13. Marie

    Where does it refer to Muhammad as being the preferred one in this verse? The explanation of this verse is exactly the same as the explanation of the verse quoted before this one. Indeed god has interacted with the prophets in different ways. He spoke directly to some, like Moses and indirectly, through Gabriel to others, like Jesus and Muhammad. This verse, and the one before it speak to various levels in which God interacted with his prophets.

    If you knew anything about Christianity, God never spoke indirectly through Gabriel to Jesus.

    What a moron.

  14. Raja

    AMIM ISLAM is a religion for braindead.
    Those who like to live in their cocoon.
    Never accept reality and always curse others.

  15. Raja

    Mindset of MUSLIMS

    Taliban flogs teen girl for alleged affair http://www.indianexpress.com/news/taliban-flogs-t

    Attacking Sderot in America http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3694275

    LeT plans to target Isro scientists http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lashkar-plans-

  16. ibrahim

    That's not true Marie. What you have suggested is a by product of modern education and not christianity. Like Jews and Muslims, Christian share the same beliefs and cannot live in peace with the elements and nature. Just like Jews and Muslims , Christiants tend to look down upon people of other faiths.

  17. antihuman

    Can't believe this! Obama bowing to Saudi King!!

    By the way, I was just figuring out things and was able to classify the majority of the human population inhabiting Earth today into 4 on the basis of their attitude toward Islam:

    1. Muslims
    2. Muslims in name only
    3. Non-Muslims (includes the apostates)
    4. Dhimmis

    Of these nothing can be done about 1 and 4 and they are Evil. 1 because of their basic belief system or cult which is against humanity, the human fraternity. 4 because they know what they are doing and they are doing only for their personal gains – playing dirty politics.

    So the betterment of the world is in the hands of 2 and 3. The more 3 can wean 2 into their fold the better it is for this world and for human evolution at large. 2 includes those Muslims who are devout only because they are ignorant of the true face of Islam (such types visit the mosque at least once on Fridays) and also those who belong to the non-practicing group.

    Humanity stand a chance only if 2 and 3 group together in this fight against the greatest evil ever to have stalked the face of this Earth. Someone drifting over from 1 to 3 is a bonus and those drifting from away from 2 to 1 are a definite loss.

    Of course, then there are those like Morgan who belonged to 3 but now have joined 1. Nothing can be done about these types too. But 2 and 3 need to realize that these pose the greatest danger to humanity as they are the ones that are radicalized beyond belief and are the ones used by the original 1s in their effort to establish their hegemony. 2 and 3 need to guard against these converted 3s.

    Saying this much, I am now eager to read the debate between Ali Sina and the Islamic Scholar. I would also love to read the debate between Zakir Naik and Ali Sina, if ever Zakir PBUH (Parrots Be Upon him) accepts the invitation. But he is a hypocrite and I don't think he will ever accept it for fear of being badly exposed. This debate would drive the final nail through the coffin of Islam.

    Finally I wish to add that there is nothing bad about Blind Faith. I have developed Blind Faith towards Ali Sina and the more I read him the more my faith increases. I am inclined to accept whatever he says without even feeling the need to scrutinize. I knew nothing about Obama and initially felt very positive towards him during the early days of the election campaign. But after reading Ali Sina's thesis such feelings simply dropped and got immediately replaced by whatever I feel for him at the moment. The recent events are already beginning to prove Ali Sina right though there many who still aren't able to see through.

    America is a great nation, the Guide of the New Order but its governance (which affects the entire world) has unwittingly fallen into the wrong hands. I hope the majority of the Americans realize this before it is too late.

    Glory to the Human Fraternity! Let all the Evil looming over it in the form of Dark Clouds drift away as quickly as possible. Let the Light of the Evolutionary Sun of Knowledge and Progess shine through!

    Let Humanity be One in its Ascent into the Next Dimension!

  18. ibrahim

    Marie says

    Hindus are known as sabeans in the Quran.

    Now where did that come from? sabeans were a group of people living in the middle east.

  19. Jockaira

    Ibrahim,

    It's my understanding that the word "sabean" was originally applied to the Persians, of whom little was known by Muhammed. His partition of humanity into three sections (muslim, people of the book, and everyone else under the sobiquet, polytheist) was confounded by the Persians (zoroastrianists, animists, free-thinkers, etc). The Persians obviously were not muslim, or POTB, or polytheists, but instead comprised in greater part of a major monotheism–and so the term "sabean" was alloted to them. Later when the Mo's Hordes entered India and encountered a somewhat similar socio-religio scheme, the term was extended to cover the Hindoos.

    All this confusion because Muhammed was essentially ignorant of the world outside of Arabia, a man who would become a figure of divine authority to a large part of humanity was really a "country hick."

    In my personal opinion, the Muslim invasion and occupation of India may be the greatest human tragedy of all time.

  20. Jockaira

    Sorry,

    I forgot my footnote.

    If you want to find out more about the Muslim invasion of India, known as Bharat to the locals, check out:

    Muslim Slave System in Medieval India by K.S. Lal

    ——————————————————————————–
    http://voiceofdharma.org/books/mssmi/

  21. a_comment

    Raisin Head wrote:
    "Satan challenged the sovereignty (right to rule) not his power. Satan began to process of bullying."
    —-
    If God is not omnipresent, should it be called "God"?

  22. Marie

    ibrahim wrote:

    That’s not true Marie. What you have suggested is a by product of modern education and not christianity. Like Jews and Muslims, Christian share the same beliefs and cannot live in peace with the elements and nature. Just like Jews and Muslims , Christiants tend to look down upon people of other faiths.

    Once again I say you are confusing Christianity with Islam. While Jesus did say go out and spread the word ( proselytize ) he nor God the father said anything about the earth belonging to only Christians. In Genesis God created the earth, then people, gave them a means to cultivate the land and then said be fruitful and multiply. This is not a product of a modern education and as far as I know there is nothing in any of the dogmas of many church denominations about earth belonging only to the Christians.

  23. Marie

    ibrahim wrote:

    Marie says

    Hindus are known as sabeans in the Quran.

    Now where did that come from? sabeans were a group of people living in the middle east.

    I got that info from N.J. Dawood's translation of the Quran.

  24. Marie

    I am not denying that there are Christians who look down on other religions.

    By the way that fundamental element you are referring to does not represent Christianity as a whole, as there are 37,0000 Church denominations.

  25. Shamsher

    Marie

    I have gone through a few of your posts, you sound to be a good person, a heart-oriented person. I think you are ripe. My advise to you is to forget all about all dogmas and do a search within yourself on a few things:
    1. Who am I? Why am I born the way I am?
    2. What is my relationship with the existence?
    3. What is God? Can I not be one with him while alive?

    I could give you a few hints to proceed if you want, but the quest has to be all yours. Are you up to it?

  26. antihuman

    To Marie,

    Just tempted to put in a few of my own words regarding Christianity… Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus..what Christianity has got is the Cross and not Jesus…

    Jesus doesn't need the Christianity and nor does he need the christians…his message is universal…but christianity has nothing to do with that message…it is just any other organization in the name of Jesus…

    so go after Jesus and leave your conditionings behind..don't be part of any organization even though it may be in the name of Jesus..do good to humanity our of your Love or don't do anything at all…

    Every church has the Cross on its Mast Head as if it is trying to warn Jesus not to come anywhere near it all or else…he will meet the fate on that cross..HA!

    You don't need the bible to understand Jesus…he is there in every heart…nurture him in your heart…his message is universal..that of Love..Unconditional Love..Let our Love for Life Grow..my Life, your Life and all the Lives around..Be against everything that is against humanity like Islam…

    Hope you understand…and so too the other humans on this Forum who call themselves Christians..be a Christian if you like..but not because it has anything to do with Christ but only because of your own fears and insecurities embedded deep inside…Christ made you (us) free…but you choose to be bound in chains…

    He is the way and not any organization..be a part of this human fraternity at large and not just part of a smaill fragment in the form of an organization..Christianity may not be evil like Islam…but still it binds and that is painful enough…hope you understand…once again…

  27. Marie

    Shamsher wrote:

    Marie

    I have gone through a few of your posts, you sound to be a good person, a heart-oriented person. I think you are ripe. My advise to you is to forget all about all dogmas and do a search within yourself on a few things:
    1. Who am I? Why am I born the way I am?
    2. What is my relationship with the existence?
    3. What is God? Can I not be one with him while alive?

    I could give you a few hints to proceed if you want, but the quest has to be all yours. Are you up to it?

    Most of us are students and we will spend the rest of our lives as students, until it is time to meet God.

  28. BustedDivinity.

    Pascal's wager, Muslims and Zoroastrians can issue that same threat Marie.

  29. proudkafir

    37,0000 Church denominations! What's the meaning of this?
    1.Let us look at it constructively. No one has understood the central theme of Jesus! Either the dead jew on stick is confused or confusing or is talikng gibberish from his you know where?
    2.people following the message of Jesus are extraordinarily stupid that each fellow interprets the way he wants!
    3.Its a mis information.
    Or bible is a total man made lie, man made history, man recorded events of a place, not necessarily applicable to all people of all time all over the world. Right?
    Just a small example will do.
    Newtonian laws are applicable to all people on earth,, at all time and are correctly spelt out.The newton's law applies even if you rabidly hate newton and not believe in him.Try jumping out of 13th floor and see if the god saves you? So is newton better than god and his son and the spook? yes indeed.

  30. Marie

    Proudkafir wrote:

    37,0000 Church denominations! What’s the meaning of this?

    A lot of these denominations are split-offs from each other, people being petty and worrying over the small stuff, and people disagreeing with each other over the central theme of Jesus's message.

    2.people following the message of Jesus are extraordinarily stupid that each fellow interprets the way he wants!

    Agree.

  31. Marie

    BD wrote:

    Pascal’s wager, Muslims and Zoroastrians can issue that same threat Marie.

    Pascal's wager only works on those who believe in what he says.

  32. BustedDivinity.

    Marie said:

    "Most of us are students and we will spend the rest of our lives as students, until it is time to meet God."

    I can see the hidden threat here, "until it is time to meet god" that is pretty much like Pascal's, we keep learning despite the fact that we obtained through such learnings contradictions and evil from the scriptures, but let's just keep learning/believing till we meet god, maybe he/she/it exists, maybe not, let's just keep learning/believing, that's Pascal's wager, it is for the emotionally weak and people who disregard other people and the dire consequencies that awaits anybody else who does not pray as they do, am glad am out of that weakness and emotional garbage.

  33. Marie

    BD wrote:

    I can see the hidden threat here, “until it is time to meet god” that is pretty much like Pascal’s, we keep learning despite the fact that we obtained through such learnings contradictions and evil from the scriptures, but let’s just keep learning/believing till we meet god, maybe he/she/it exists, maybe not, let’s just keep learning/believing, that’s Pascal’s wager, it is for the emotionally weak and people who disregard other people and the dire consequencies that awaits anybody else who does not pray as they do, am glad am out of that weakness and emotional garbage.

    BD it's does not matter if a person believes in God or not, life is one big classroom.

  34. AMIM

    Dear Donald Morgan,

    I am telling you again, please do not waste your precious time with a psycho.

  35. non-delusionist

    Ali Sina should have followed his instincts. He first impression on the Donald in my view was spot on. It would be an insult to Ali Sina's intelligence to debate this Narcissist, Donald Morgan.

    I am waiting read Ali Sina's debate with the Keralite Scholar.

  36. non-delusionist

    The Bloody Delutionish AMIM is back. Where have you crawl out off? Please do not waste our space and time.

  37. ibrahim

    Don't worry ND, amim's comments are taken off soon after they are posted. Seems he rubbed the admin the wrong way.

  38. krishna786

    Dear amim,

    Thats the best advice given on the forum.you are right,morgan should not waste time with psycho mohammo & leave islam.

  39. venex

    If admin is taking Amim off for anything else except abusive language I do not agree. We must let him make a fool of himself. He is a classic representation of what a muslim mind is. Will free thinking readers of FFI be influenced by an Amim or does Mr Sina become a Psycho because this idiot says so, suppression of free speech in any form will bring us down to their level.

    I bet Donald and Amim will apostate, it is only a matter of time.

  40. proudchristian

    Muhammad will intercede on behalf of mankind. Muhammad is an excellent example for all humanity to follow. Some prophets are preferred more by God, among them muhammad. LOL!

    This is hilarious! Ehe, muslims tell me! How will muhammad intercede for us? You see guys, that is why I believe strongly there is hell. Muslims reject anything called mediatory process between humans and God but at the same time believe muhammad will intercede for people. This brings me to my long held theory that the advent of muhammad and islam was a ploy by Satan to counter the God's plan for humans. After God's project of Jesus and the redemption process at the cross and resurrection, Satan was shocked and from that moment he designed a mega counter-project which took 600 hundred years to finish. This counter project only focussed at what are christianity keys to redemption:

    No origin sin
    Jesus was a mere human prophet
    No crucifixion
    No resurruction
    Salvation attained through works and one must work hard to earn it
    (including killing people who believe differently)

    It was finished. Game over. Let us design the book focussing on these key points and call it the quran. Let us plagiarize the Old Testament but making sure we corrupt those areas important to salvation. Let us find one person with a narcissist personality disorder and give him this job. These type of people qualify for these kind of dirty jobs. But we must first train him. Okay cammon demon Jibril, go to a person with all NPD syndromes and finish that job!

    Salim this also partly answers your question, that Satan is a driving force behind Islam. But his dirty jobs are not only limited to Islam. He currently uses atheism in western countries.

  41. Paki_islamist

    Islam in action
    It is interesting to watch the beard-monkey brotherhood thrashing a woman Islam-style for some minor offence.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/

  42. continuum1

    OBAMA BOWS TO SAUDI KING like a SLAVE (ABED)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY

    VERY VERY SHAMEFUL ACT.

  43. Free Spirit

    Morgan,

    I don't feel sorry for you because you have brought this all on yourself, but I feel extremely sorry for your precious son! You are teaching him nothing but lies and bullsh*t! You are a disgrace to the American race and if your wife is an American and has any common sense…she'll take herself and your son away from your dumb a.. and make you eat their dust!

    Oh, wait….I'm sorry…not only are you a disgrace to the American race (black, white, Asian, N.A. etc.), but you are most definitely a disgrace to the human race! You deserve every insult you get……How could you have subjected your family to that? Maybe some of have made that same mistake, but we were smart enough not to debate some one of Dr. Sina's status because in our hearts, most of us knew we were wrong. We woke up, used our brains and got the hell out of it! You have been (or rather have allowed yourslef to be) raped by a cult who encourages rape…Islam rapes the mind, heart, soul and for many, the body….so…there…you're no better than pedo Mo…you have raped your son, ya freak…maybe not physically/sexually, but mentally and emotionally…..you should be the one ashamed…not Dr. Sina! I have no sympathy for you at this point! Salam, you idiot….maybe you'll wake the hell up and actually find it oneday

  44. Free Spirit

    You like so many followers have also raped spiritually…..I am still suffering from that…..Even if you, Morgan, don't wake up….I hope your son will realize what an idiot you are!

  45. Islamophobic

    To #29:

    You forgot to mention, besides technical courses on self-exploding and Uzza worshipping(oops, Uzi handling), basics, intermediate and advanced on child molesting. He´ll be the very first one subject of thoroughly studies carried out by horny depraved moooohlahs (ghilman training course). I am really worried about his child. I hope the local government takes away his child, for its own sake.

    To #22:

    Have I really read that? I really would like to see you prove your point. Besides, what do you think about Bamyan´s Buddha destruction? And numerous others temples of worship? The Alexandry Library ( " Destroy it, because either the goodness of it is "redundant" due to P´ornan or is lol, evil,lol) ?

    Ali Sina 6 X 0 Arrogant Duck !

  46. socratese

    Mohammad mixed up all stories he heard from then story tellers of idol worshipping arabs, storiues from christian and jew scripture to from his manifesto of hallucinations and dilusions.Mo telling jesus was born with out father to virgin marry is just similar Maha Bharatha mythology of hindu where virgin Kunti gives birth to karna with out father .In that sory of Maha bharatha pandvas climibed to heaven with live bodies form himalayas.This is also twited and used by Mo to tell live bodily going to pradise by jeus .he also promised this to jihad terrorists lifting to paradise by allah.Ther were 24 terthankaras(enlighting guiding gurus) in Jainism and Mahaveer is the lat one.Mo twisted this as allah has sent 24000 prophets and he ws the last.He used even hell concept from judasim.lik this He used all thenexisting stories to from his dlusons of Quron.

  47. Ibn Kammuna

    I am sorry guys and gals, my heart is taking the best of me.

    Please lets be kind to Mr. Morgan

    Remember the note that was alwaysdisplayed on FFI site in the past:

    Where Logic Fails to open the Mind, Compassion may open the Heart

  48. krishna786

    Dear continuum1

    It is not a bow, it's a bend.!!! This is a very shamefull day for america.You let the free world down by bending in front of monarchy in this century. A democratically elected leader bending in front of a religious despot.America you have lost your balls,now you have lost your nut as well.

    KICK THE AMERICAN PROTOCOL OFFICER IN THE BUTT.

  49. Free Spirit

    IK,

    Perhaps you speak some truth…..I'll keep that in mind….I just feel sorry for his son.

  50. Ibn Kammuna

    Hi Free Spirit
    I loved your article. I am really glad for you and your daughter girl. One thing I enjoy is people getting free from Evil, and Islam is the worst evil there is. I hope Mr. Morgan will realize that before damaging the psyche of his son. (You know the Islamic teaching that he has to beat his son at the age of ten to force him to pray to the moon god; Allah).
    Anyway girl. I watched the movie "Not without my daughter when it came out (its been a while). i just loved it when that woman manged to get away from there, with her daughter with her. Listen, my email is [email protected] if you like to share things. Ibrahim and Marie and me email each other between now and then. Its good sharing and encouragement I think. May you get Peace from the prince of Peace..always. Take care for now.

  51. Marie

    As for Pascal's wager, it does not prove anything except keeping the person in fear of hell.

  52. Raisin Head

    #57 Ibrahim
    l. We are created to worship something. When men serve animals or the wind, or sun, or the moon, why do you think they do. Why serve beast of burden, animals you eat or beat, or put in the zoo. Can you see the wind, yet there is a wind god. Every tribe of man serves a god. Even atheist serve something, marx is the god of communism. Muhammad took advantage of this and made himself the god they could see and rename himsle fallah, allah's
    partner. All over the world man worships something or someone. In Hinduism did you see Durga or Shiva. NO. The emperor was the son of god in Shintoism.
    In the OT he was invisible. In christianity he was unseen, just represented by his son. In christendom he was represented by the Pope, when Jesus was the only one to mediate.

    Islam named farts Big Fart and Little fart (smile)

    The bible said it was not what was outisde of the man that make him good it was what was inside.

    If you need more information I will supply. It's late and I;m so tired. I enjoy debating with you. I am not a member of Christendom nor a Christendom as I am not a liar or a hypocrit. If one says they serve god then do it. Like Muslims do what allah/mo said by killing and hating they are true Muslims of the Islamic kind. Christians were told to do or not to do certain things which I want to do, so I dont pretend to be one.

  53. santiago

    Donald Morgan has just convinced me that someone who calls himself a divine messenger & last prophet but also rapes,kills & loots is surely not narcisstic.

    They should make a t-shirt that says:

    "WHAT ABOUT ALL THE GOOD THINGS MUHAMMAD DID?"

  54. I haven’t checked in here for a while because I thought it was getting boring, but the last handful of posts are really great quality so I guess I’ll add you back to my daily bloglist. You deserve it my friend. :)

  55. I haven’t checked in here for a while because I thought it was getting boring, but the last handful of posts are really great quality so I guess I’ll add you back to my daily bloglist. You deserve it my friend. :)

Leave a Reply

More

Log in | Designed by Freedom Bulwark Networking