Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 6
ALI SINA’S ARGUMENTS
In Ali Sina’s book he references quotations from the Quran in a desperate attempt to undermine Muhammad’s character. On page 61 Ali Sina gives us his interpretations, which are misleading to say the least, on certain verses from the Quran. What I would like to do now is quote Ali Sina and see if that is what the Quran is implying.
1. Ali Sina says the following:
Muhammad regarded himself as Khayru-l-Khalq (the Best of Creation), an “excellent example” (Q.33:21)
Chapter 33, verse 21 says the following:
‘indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the last day and remembers Allah much’
Where does it reference Muhammad as being the best of creation here? The verse simply says that one should emulate Muhammad, if he/she hopes to meet Allah. Like true Christians who strive to emulate Christ, Muslims strive to emulate Muhammad.
The term Khayru-l-Khalq is not in the verse 33:21. That verse talks about Muhammad’s “excellent example.” You can find this title in many Islamic sites such as http://www.livingislam.org/n/bc_e.html which says,
One of the names by which the Prophet Muhammad is known – upon him blessings and peace – is Khayru-l-Khalq or “Best of Creation.” Other similar names of him with identical meaning are Khayru-l-Bariyya, Khayru Khalqillah, Khayru-l-`Alamina Turra, Khayru-n-Nas, Khayru Hadhihi-l-Umma, and Khîratullah. These titles refers to his high status over all human Prophets and Messengers as well as over the Jinn and angels – upon them peace.
Even if you argue that this title is not in the Quran, there are plenty of other similar titles that highlight Muhammad’s sense of self importance and grandiosity in the Quran that I have quoted in my book.
2. Ali Sina then says the following:
explicitly or implicitly hinted to be “exalted above other prophets in degrees” (Q.2:253)
Chapter 2, verse 253 says the following:
‘Those messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of the Allah spoke (directly); others he raised to degrees (of honor); and to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), we gave clear proofs and evidences and supports him with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel)’
Where does it say explicitly or implicitly that Muhammad is exalted above all others? The verse simply says that Allah has preferred some prophets over others. God spoke to Moses directly and sent revelations to Noah and others. This verse is explaining god’s various degrees of interaction with his prophets. It does not say what you claim it says Ali Sina.
The verse 2:253 says
تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم
This verse translates as: “Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others.”
Did Muhammad consider other prophets to be superior to him? No. While describing his hallucinatory journey to Heaven, Muhammad claimed that he led a congregational prayer where all the prophets lined up behind him and he was their imam. This clearly shows his desire to be seen as superior to other prophets.
Narcissists hide behind a façade of false modesty, but they reveal their true sense of grandiosity and entitlement through anecdotes and hints. So on one hand Muhammad would say there is no difference between the prophet (that is when he wants to elevate himself to their rank). On the other hand he made up stories to give the idea that he is superior to them, without saying this openly. If Muslims tell you that they regard Muhammad at the same rank of Moses and Jesus, they are lying. Muslims praise is only for Muhammad and NEVER for Jesus, Moses or any other prophet.
3. Ali Sina then says the following:
He claimed to be “the preferred one” (Q.17:55)
Chapter 17, verse 55 says the following:
‘And your lord knows best all who are in the heavens and the earth. And, indeed, we have preferred some of the prophets above others, and to Dawud (David) we gave the Zabur (Psalms)’
Where does it refer to Muhammad as being the preferred one in this verse? The explanation of this verse is exactly the same as the explanation of the verse quoted before this one. Indeed god has interacted with the prophets in different ways. He spoke directly to some, like Moses and indirectly, through Gabriel to others, like Jesus and Muhammad. This verse, and the one before it speak to various levels in which God interacted with his prophets.
The same response about Question 3 applies also here. In these verses we see Muhammad is establishing the claim that some prophets are afzal, i.e. superior to other prophets. Once that premise is established then through hints like the story of Mi’raj and how other prophets revered him and how no other prophet but him is given the power of intercession he made his hidden agenda known. These are all part of the manipulative game that narcissists play. Not really difficult to detect. Children often are expert in these mind games. We played these mind games ourselves when we were children.
4. Ali Sina then says the following:
to have been risen “to a praised estate” (Q.17:79) – a station which he said none but he would receive – and this is the Station of Intercession at the right hand of the Almighty next to his Glorious Throne. In other words, he would be the person who would advise God as to who should be sent to Hell and who should be admitted to Heaven.
Chapter 17, verse 79 says the following:
‘And in some parts of the night (also) offer the salat (prayer) with it (i.e recite the Quran in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer – Nawafil) for you (O Muhammad). It may be that your lord will raise you to Maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory, i.e the highest degree in paradise)’
This verse clearly says that Muhammad will be raised to the highest degree in paradise but it does not say he will be at the right hand of the almighty and it does not say he (Muhammad) will be charged with advising god as to who should be entered into heaven and who should be sent to hell, as Ali Sina says it does. Ali Sina’s explanation, however, comes to us from a Hadith but Ali Sina’s interpretation of that Hadith is incorrect.
So what is your point? Are you saying that I am libeling Muhammad and he did not claim to be the intercessor in the Day of Judgment?
The claim that Muhammad has the power of intercede may not be explicit in this verse but it is in many other verses, such as 2:255, 10:3, 19:85-87, 20:109, 21:25-29, 34:23. This subject is exhaustively discussed in my debate with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and Dr. Khalid Zaheer. Anyone interested can read that debate here.
If we look at Sahih Bukari, Vol. 6, Hadith No. 242 we read:
‘Narrated Ibn Umar: ‘On the day of resurrection the people will fall to their knees and every nation will follow their prophet and they will say, “O so-and-so! Intercede (for us with Allah)”, till (the right) of intercession will be given to the prophet (Muhammad) and that will be the day when Allah will raise him to maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory).’
Where does it state that Muhammad will be at the right hand of the almighty here, as Ali Sina says? The reason Ali Sina purposely says this is to incite hatred towards the Muslims from the Christians because the Christians believe that Jesus alone is at the right hand of the almighty. Shame on you Ali Sina for trying to incite such anger amongst your Christian readers!
Who do you think you are to say shame on me? I wasted so much time responding to you drivel and this is my reward. This is the same person who started his message saying he wants to have a scholarly debate. You don’t know what that word meas..
Muhammad denies Jesus’s claim to be the son of God, and pooh-poohs a fundamental teaching of Christianity, which is the Ttrinity. He denies that Jesus was crucified. He calls the Christians “gone astray” and invokes on them the wrath of God (Q. 1:7) Muslims recite this verse every day as their prayer. Muhammad said, may Allah destroy the Christians for calling Jesus son of God. (Q.9:30) He tells his zombie followers to fight the Christians and the Jews “until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.”(Q.9:29) He says their religion will not be accepted and in the next world they will be among the losers (Q. 3:85). And at least three times he calls the Jews pigs and monkeys. None of these blesphemies, insults and incites are hatemongering, not even the continuous persecution, genocide and massacre of the Christians throughout the Muslim wolrd. But if I point out to the fact that Muhammad considered himself superior to Jesus that is hate mongering and this jerk takes the liberty to insult me. See what Islam does to people?
Also, what is meant by intercession? It does not mean that Muhammad will have say over who goes to paradise and who goes to hell. It simply means that Muhammad will intercede on behalf of every man, in an attempt to gain favor from Allah for that man. Think of it like a courtroom; where Allah is the judge and mankind is the defendant. Who in the courtroom intercedes for the defendant? The defense lawyer, of course. The defense lawyer tries his/her best to show that their client, the defendant is innocent and should be set free. The same applies here; Muhammad will intercede on behalf of mankind to try and show god that every person is worthy of paradise. Although Muhammad will do this, it doesn’t ensure that a person will enter paradise as the final judgment belongs to Allah and Allah only.
I had this discussion with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamedi and he is one of the top scholars of Islam. He could not solve this problem. Go and read that debate before making more fool of yourself!
Muhammad will intercede on behalf of Mankind? Is he kinder than God to humanity?
Do these verses in the Quran prove Muhammad suffers from NPD? If you believe Ali Sina’s lies, half truths and twisted interpretations then it may but if you, the reader investigates these facts, you will undoubtedly see that these examples Ali Sina gives prove nothing for his case. I am not surprised that Ali Sina would resort to this type of dirty tactic. In my vast experience in debating the Christian missionary, I have found that people who try to disprove Islam do so by providing lies, half truths and twisted interpretations. It is indeed a shame that such obvious tactics are still being used by the likes of Ali Sina to try and prove a point!
If you have Ali Sina’s book go this page and notice the fact that what I mentioned above was not fully quoted from the Quran. Ali Sina has simply made a statement and attached a Quranic reference to it. Why Would Ali Sina do this? Why wouldn’t he quote the entire verse he attaches to his statement, so the readers can read it and agree/disagree that this is what the Quran says? Ali Sina is hoping that his reader will take what he says as being the truth. Once again, he is depending on his readers lack of investigation into what the Quran says in the attached Quranic references he provides. If you look at the bottom of this page he quotes the Quran to try and prove a point. Why wasn’t this done with the previous Quranic references he gave on the same page?
Whenever I say something is in the Quran I give a reference. The Quran is a book that is available to anyone. It is only a click away. Any person whose brain is not clogged by religious cholesterol can see that the verses say exactly what I say. I have tried to make sure that as much as it is possible all the references in my book (there are close to 400) can be found on the Internet so people can easily verify them. In a few cases, such as when I had to quote the Tabaqat or Tabari, the references are made to my books. I could not find these books online.
Ali Sina also makes several fallacious statements about Muhammad. He desperately tries to disguise his own opinion about Muhammad by indirectly inferring that what he says comes from a reputable source. I want the reader to remember that the quotations I pull from Ali Sina’s book have NO footnote or reference from an alternative source. These are merely the biased opinions of Ali Sina. As we all know, anyone can have an opinion, but is that opinion sound? In these cases they are not sound because Ali Sina fails to provide proof or footnotes to back up his sensational claims.
Ali Sina says the following statements about Muhammad, without reference:
Page 62 (sayings of Muhammad)
‘The very first thing that Allah Almighty ever created was my soul.’
‘First of all things, the Lord created my mind.’
‘Just as Allah created me noble, he also gave me noble character.’
The reference to these quotes are included in the footnote of my book. You failed to pay attention. Here is the passage.
· The very first thing that Allâh Almighty ever created was my soul.
· First of all things, the Lord created my mind.
· I am from Allâh, and the believers are from me.1
· Just as Allâh created me noble, he also gave me noble character.
· Were it not for you, [O Muhammad] I would not have created the universe.2
1- The first three sentences are in http://www.muhammadanreality.com/creationofmuhammadanreality.htm
2- The last two sentences are in Tabaqat V. 1, p. 364
You are a sloppy researcher.
I am quite aware how Muslims, failing to respond to my charges, will do their best to find a single minor error in my book to discredit it altogether. So I took care that everything I say is referenced properly.
‘Ironically, Muhammad preached against associating partners with Allah, when, in fact, he portrayed himself as the partner of Allah in a manner which made them logically and practically inseparable.’
What Ali Sina has done is cunning and calculating in nature. He has mixed what he contends is ‘factual’ information along with his own baseless and fallacious opinion in an attempt to make blurry what is fact and what is fiction. There are many other places in this chapter where Ali Sina tries to mix his own unqualified opinion with ‘factual’ information so that the reader can’t distinguish or make the difference between the two. If these examples of your fallacious opinions are indeed factual in nature, provide us with a reputable reference that says what you say Ali Sina!
You are wrong and blinded by your hatred. The following is the comment of one of the readers on my book published on Amazon.com’
“No facts are assumed in this book. Opinions are stated as opinions and facts stated as facts and questions stated as questions. The only pursuit involved in this book is that of the absolute truth for a logical mind.”
Not only does Ali Sina resort to this dirty tactic when describing Muhammad, he does so with regards to what narcissism or NPD really is. He injects his own unqualified opinions on narcissism and NPD in very much the same way. He tries to, once again, mix his opinion with what he calls ‘factual’ information (I already proved that his main source Dr. Sam Vaknin, fake Ph.D is not a qualified or reputable source) in an attempt to make the two undistinguishable. Here are some examples of this dirty tactic. Again, notice that there are NO footnotes or references mentioned for his opinion, disguised as facts.
Now, that is funny. So you are also questioning my knowledge of NPD? What is your qualification? The only knowledge you have about this subject is by following the link that I gave you to DSM and reading one page from that manual. You have even the chutzpa to berate Dr. Vaknin, when he is hailed by major scientific journals and his opinion is sought by at least 1000 mental health professionals? Shouldn’t you stick to Islam and discuss Muhammad’s pedophilia instead? Who are you to question Vaknin when there is not a single mental health professional that disagrees with his definition of NPD? But a jerk like you who has read just one introductory page to NPD from DSM is already qualified to decide who is qualified and who is not.
Do you really have to opine on things you have no clue? It only makes you look foolish!
‘A narcissist may seem to be self-confident and even accomplished. In reality he (narcissists are predominantly male) suffers from a great deficit of self-esteem and needs an outside supply of adulation, constantly seeking admiration.’
‘The Narcissist knows that direct self-promotion will be seen as repulsive and will be rejected. Instead, he presents himself as a modest, almost self-effacing person, one in the service of God, nation or humanity.’
‘Narcissists invent fictitious gods and spurious causes. The more they elevate their false deities and glorify their causes, the more power they can obtain for themselves.’
These, and other statements are nothing more than the ravings of Ali Sina, as they do not come from a secondary source. Although Ali Sina makes indirect reference to Dr. Sam Vaknin, he does not come out and say that this is what Dr. Sam Vaknin says. Even if he were to do so, I’ve already exposed Dr. Sam Vaknin as being unqualified to speak on the subject of mental disorders. So Ali Sina’s statements are based on an unqualified source, making them invalid as factual information.
So now you are also a mental health professional and question my definition of narcissism!? Can you ask someone with an actual diploma to dispute those definitions? How can you disagree with what I say when you have no university qualification whatsoever and not just in psychology? I know close to nothing about physics. Wouldn’t it be foolish of me to write a dissertation trying to refute Steven Hawkins? What if I read a few pages on the subject from an online site? No, still I would not be qualified to opine on Hawkins or physics. My brother in law is a highly reputable psychiatrist. He is topnotch and one of the best. He is expensive. In one day he makes more money than most professionals make in a month. But narcissism is not his field, so he refused to opine on a subject that is not his specialty. But a Mr. nobody like you can already qualify and disqualify professionals who are highly respected by their peers. If I am not mistaken Gabriel must be visiting you too. The other illiterate man who knew everything and had the knowledge of the unseen was Muhammad.
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