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Ali Sina vs. Mustafa Basheer  

page 3

I have less time and energy now with fasting and my taraweeh prayers. But insha Allah I will respond to you all as and when I can.

First let me reply to Ali Sina.
Ali Sina
Quote:
I am not after true Muslims with Imaan. I am after fake Muslims with intellect. Believe me all of us who left Islam were not true Muslims. After we came to see the true Islam we realized we are fooling ourselves and left it. In our case our imaan was less than our intellect so we left it. Those whose intellect is less than their faith will remain Muslims and we are not even interested in them. So please rest assured. Islam is not in danger. We are only culling the intelligent people, those whose imaans is not strong out of Islam. This is not a bad thing. You should be happy and thank us for that.


So what you are saying is that you would follow your brain and not your heart. Mr Sina, I hope you do realise our limitations as human beings. We are only a speck in this universe of complexity. Now how do you know your "intellect" is correct? How can you be certain your intelligence has not betrayed you. I am glad you brought the subject of illusion. What we percieve is very subjective and may not be the only outcome to a riddle. The conclusion you come to, using your intelligence is very subjective. There are still so many mysterious phenomenon in this world for which science has no answers. My point is, what may seemingly look wrong or inappropriate may have a hidden meaning/benefit we havent discovered yet. Allah alone knows. One day we may come to figure it out, or maybe we may not. Take the case of polygamy- limited polygamy is allowed in Islam. The upper limit has been fixed at 4 women at a time. There are many arguments put forward justifying and showing the benefits of such practise. I am not totaly convinced with the arguments. To me, it would make more sense in polygamy to allow 2 women at a time rather than 4. What ever pros muslim websites have given works best for 2 women rathen than four. But, I am content with the knowledge that Allah has seen a reason for this. With my limited common sense and intellect I can only see thus far and conclude that monogamy is better or that polygamy be limited to 2 women at a time and no more. Same goes for shariah laws. These seemingly barbaric practises have no place in modern society. With our imaan strong, Mr Ali Sina, we believe first trusting fully in God and humbly admitting that our knowledge and intelligence is limited and that we are prone to errors, misjudgements and fallacies.

Quote:
In that case you donít need imaan. Imaan or faith means acceptance of a postulate without evidence. If you have evidence then it is not faith but facts. If your facts are strong we will accept them too.


How can anyone prove these things??? How can I prove to you that buraq had the ability to fly? How can I prove to you that Muhamamd(pbuh) split the moon? How can I prove to you that Jinns exist? It is not reasonable to ask such questions and expect a rational answer. Ofcourse we cant prove these things! Not in a milli0on years and not with all the science in the world. You have to understand that when you deal with religion you are inevitably going to run into these myths and legends. Can the hindus come up with an explanation for Hanuman the flying monkey? Can the Christians explain the virgin birth of Maryam? No. There is no need to go into the details of it all. You can choose to believe in them in a figurative way or discard them. It is just as possible to be a muslim and be rational. I repeat again that the only thing you have to believe to be a muslim is in Allah. Everything else is secondary.

Quote:
Before when I used to read Muhammad raided cities and killed the infidels I felt very proud that the messenger of Allah was victorious and the infidels were defeated and humiliated. Now I put myself in the shoes of those infidels and see how evil Muhammad had been. I read the same stories but now I am changed. I donít close my eyes anymore to all that evil trying to justify automatically everything Muhammad did just because my parents told me he is my prophet. Now I ask what proof is there that he was a prophet. Where is the evidence that this man was a prophet? It is then that I find no proof at all. There is not even one single proof. So he could have been just a liar. And then when I see his actions I see he was not just a liar but also a monster.


Is it important to know who Muhammad(pbuh) was, what he did and how he lived. I think its immaterial. Let us put everything behind us. Mr Sina, you were not around, nor was I, to see what real happened and what did not. No one knows the true story. The sira, tabari and hadith were written at least 200 years AFTER the death of the prophet. God alone know what ommissions have been made, what has been invented or distorted into them. It is very possible that the entire biography of the prophet as reported by the early historians is completely wrong with not an iota of truth in them. So lets put that behind us and move on. islam is in shambles. think of how we can restore the image, honour and regain the glory it once had. What we need now is reformation of Islam from within. We need to get rid of the crazy mullahs who issue fatwahs not knowing what they are doing!

Quote:
And what if I win? You did not say what you would do if I prove that Muhammad was not an honourable man. Would you be willing to leave Islam and denounce it publicly?

And just how are you going to do that? Are you going to use the same unreliable sources of Sira, Tabari and Hadith collections??? Then I think you have already won the debate. You have to prove now that the sources you use are reliable. Did the events really take place. Did the prophet really say and do what he is claimed to have said and done? I doubt it. These sirah that is available to us is laughable. Do you think anyone who claims to be a prophet would have done such silly and ridiculous things? Even if he was an imposter, wouldnt he try to hide any acts of immorality out of fear of losing credibility?? I think that should be proof that the sources are extremely unreliable.

Yes, prove that Allah does not exist and I will publicly denounce Islam. By discovering flaws in the prophet's character you are only proving that he was a bad person. You still don't prove that he was not a prophet, nor that Islam is false. I don't understand, why is it not enough for you to simply believe that he was just a man like us given a special duty by God. He had his own shortcomings, but we are not to judge him, because that is the job of his creator.

 

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