Javed Ahmad Ghamidi vs. Ali
Drear Mr. Ghamidi and Mr. Zaheer.
Greetings and thank you for the response. You have
been brief and to the point. I will try to do the same.
to Sura Naba Mr. Ghamidi, you quoted verses 78: 37-40 and in the
footnote you wrote:
“This and the next two verses
strongly negate the philosophy of mediation and intercession.”
I agreed with that and affirmed that intercession
makes no sense.
But then I pointed out that many Muslims believe that
intercession is possible and I quoted several verses that make that belief
However in your latest response you indicated, “intercession
would only be needed by, and allowed to, people belonging to the third
So obviously I had not understood you right at first
or you are having second thoughts. It appears to me that now you say that
intercession is possible. Is my understanding correct?
If intercession is not possible, I would like you to
explain why in so many places Muhammad claims that he will be the
intercessor and that others to whom permission has been given can also
If intercession is possible, then we have a logical
problem to solve. Doesn’t God know everything? What can possibly any
intercessor tell Him that He does not know already? The Quranic verses say
that intercession would be allowed to those who speak the truth. This
makes no sense at all. Can anyone tell a lie to God when he already knows
everything? Why does he need the opinion of others when he knows best?
is the point in talking to God when he already knows what we are going to
say and we know that he knows what is in our heart? Isn't this an exercise
Furthermore if God’s wisdom, compassion and mercy
exceeds those of his creatures why would he need any creature of him to
tell him please be more forgiving and merciful to some of your weaker
Can possibly anyone be more merciful to other humans
When I agreed with you, it was because I understood
you say the Quran “strongly negates the philosophy of mediation and
intercession”. But this does not seem to be the case. So I can’t agree
with you and you should explain logically why an all knowing, all wise God
needs intercession by his creatures. Is there anything that God does not
know that the intercessor can inform him? The philosophy of intercession denies
not only the omniscience of God but also his mercy and fairness. It
concept on intercession implies that Muhammad and “those to whom permission is given” know
things that Allah does not know, or that they are more forgiving and
merciful that him.
You brought the example of an employee who is loyal
but not very efficient and that his employer tolerates some of his
ineptitudes in consideration of his loyalty. Let us agree with this
premise. The question is why this employer needs someone to intercede with
him on behalf of this lousy but loyal employee? An intercessor would only
make sense if the employer does not have the full knowledge of the situation.
So he would ask the opinion of the superior of this employee who knows him
best. But if God knows everything better than
anyone else, is wiser than all his creation and his prophets, why would he
need anyone's opinion? Doesn’t this imply that Muhammad knows something
about humans that Allah does not know?
According to Islam, Allah is perfect while Muhammad
and Muslims are not. Will you please explain why a perfect being would
listen to the opinions of imperfect creatures? If the claim that Allah
knows best is true, then intercession by creatures who don’t know
anywhere close to what Allah knows is not needed at all and is sheer
Muhammad and other devout Muslims know the secrets of people's heart better
The concept of intercession is nothing but blasphemy.
Muhammad is claiming to have the power to act as God’s advisor. He even
grants this preposterous privilege to his followers. This is absurd. What
possibly anyone can tell God that He already does not know? If someone
deserves a break because of his loyalty or for any other reason,
shouldn’t God know that better than his prophet? By claiming that he has
the power to intercede with God, Muhammad in assuming the role of the
You wrote: “In other words,
the Almighty would Himself identify the people who would be allowed to
intercede and the ones they would be allowed to intercede for. In the
process of intercession, they would not speak anything but the truth.”
This makes no sense at all. I can’t understand the
logic of this protocol. How can an omniscient God, appoint some humans to
intercede? Let us say God decides to punish someone for a sin. Has he made
his decision wisely or not? Is his decision based on knowledge or is it based on
ignorance? Then he appoints some good Muslims to intercede on behalf of
this individual. These Muslims prostrate in front of Allah and tell him, oh
Allah, please forgive this man because he was a loyal Muslim and Allah, after
thinking for while
and hearing some supplications, changes his mind and says, "Okay, because you
interceded I will forgive him." Doesn’t this sound ludicrous? If
this individual deserves to be forgiven why God does not forgive him in
the first place? What these Muslims can possibly tell God that He does not know already and how a bunch of humans can influence the
decision of the maker of this
universe? Is God so whimsical? Doesn’t this
imply that his original decision was not right? If it was right why
change it? If it was not right because it was based on the faulty information then God
is not all knowing.
Funny thing is that Allah already knows that his
decision is not right and the person deserves better treatment. So he asks
his prophet and some good Muslims to beg for him to change his decision
and make it right.
We should also remember verse 7.188 where allegedly Allah tells Muhammad to says:
I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah
willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all
good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a
bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith.
We have also this hadith:
I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end. (Bukhari,
Sahih Bukhari, Chapter "Al-Janaiz")
In one of his sermons calculated to instill the fear of Allah and the day
of reckoning in the hearts of men, he said:
O people of Quraish be prepared for the hereafter, I cannot save you
from the punishment of Allah; O Bani Abd Manaf, I cannot save you from
Allah; O Abbas, son of Abdul Mutalib, I cannot protect you either; O
Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, even you I cannot save. (Sahahin)
How can then such a person who has no power over
anything except what Allah tells him, and does not know what will be his
own end claim to know that he will be an advisor to Allah on the Day of Judgment
advocating for the Muslims?
Imagine Allah sitting on his throne and condemning a
Muslim to Hell, knowing that this person deserves better. So he turns to Muhammad
and tell him to intercede for that Muslim. Mo
goes on his knees and intercedes and then Allah smiles and tells the
Muslim, I have forgiven your sin because of Muhammad.
This is comedy. It
is clear that Muhammad said something at one time and then forgot and said
something else at another time. The whole story is just ridiculous. This is enough proof that he was making it
Now imagine this
scene happening billions of times, once for every Muslim that ever lived
and had a grain of faith in Muhammad. (All Muslims have that much faith or
they would not call themselves Muslim.) Let us say there will be about 3 billion
Muslims in total, since the beginning of Islam to the Day of Resurrection
and let us say it takes just one minute for Muhammad to intercede on
behalf of each one of them. That is really fast justice. At this rate, if
Muhammad and Allah work non stop, 24 hours per day and all days of the
year, the Day of Judgment will have to last 5707 years. Now imagine you
have lived 60 or 70 years in this world and will have to stand in line
over five thousand years to receive your judgment. If there are
twice that many Muslims, then the Day of Judgment will last 11414 years.
If the intercession ritual takes more than one minute per person the
waiting time will be even longer. If Allah or Muhammad take coffee breaks,
you'll have to stand in like a few extra thousands of years. We are not
even counting the time that it will take to process the non-Muslims
because we assume that they will all be herded to hell like the Jews being
sent to Nazi gas chambers and Allah will not waste a minute of his time on
If the Quran says intercession is possible, the Quran
is engaging in a logical fallacy. It is undermining the omniscience of God
and is confuting His superior wisdom and mercy.
My dear erudite friends, I think you have a big
logical problem in front of you. You either must accept intercession or
reject it. If you reject it, then explain why Muhammad claims to have that
power and if you accept it then you are engaging in blasphemy, which is
even a bigger problem.
response to my second question asking why Allah in the Quran abruptly
changes pronouns and sometimes refers to himself in third person you said
that it is because the Quran “is a masterpiece of Arabic literature”.
I agree that sometimes a speaker or a writer speaks
of himself in third person and this is acceptable. However this is not the
recipe to transform a dull writing into a masterpiece of literature. The
Quran is not a masterpiece of literature by any standard. If we continue
this debate long enough, I would certainly show you the errors in the
Quran that prove clearly that the author of this book was indeed an
illiterate man and not God. Switching from one pronoun to another without
notice, only creates confusion and it does not transform a prosaic writing
into a masterpiece of literature.
topic in my view is clear. Please click on Next
to see my next question.