What Islamic Science and Philosophy?

Enlightening article

There is no tolerance or concession for philosophy in Islam. Ibnu Sina or Avicenna was declared as apostate by Al- Ghazali due to his rejection of certain Islamic doctrine such as resurrection after death and his belief in Aql-Af'al or the Concious Mind that contradict the notion of God's full freewill in Islam.

Besides this, all the great scientists and philosophers in the so called Islamic golden period were Freethinkers that not on good terms with the bigoted fanatic Islamic scholars. Al- Farabi who was great scientist and musician was another personality that had the apostasy label on him.

The credits should go to these Freethinkers, not Muslims or Islam. Philosophy was regarded as taboo in the Islamic world and these people resisted against fanaticsm air in their environment. Not only Al- Ghazali, the fanatic from India such as Imam Rabbani Sirhindi criticized philosophy and mathematics in his Letters or "Maktubat".

Humanity is but one family. :)

Great article.

Islam and the claims of the Islamists are transparently absurd. No wonder so few Muslims voice their opinions on FFI. Islam does not hold water and they know it. This cult of treachery and fear is extremely harmful to mankind and it must be abandoned by Muslims if they are to salvage their integrity.

Non-Muslim apologists must put an end to their erroneous nonsense. They are betraying future generations propagating Islamic lies.

Muslim apologists are suffering from inferiority complex to see the fact that all the scientific achievement and technological development are in the hand of non muslim.So they are trying to haijack the credit of ancient Greek,Roman,Persian,Indian scientist and philosopher for the socalled Islamic scientist,although most of the muslim by birth scholar do not follow islamic shariah law or other islamic mumbo jumbo indeed.But they are trying to show this noble man as a islamic figure.

TO GIVE CREDENCE TO ISLAM IS LIKE SAYING A SNAKE WILL NOT BITE because he has no teeth. iSLAM MUMBO JUMBO INDEED BITES and kills just like the snake/serpent does badly in fact deadly. If allowed to continue, with all of the weapons aVAILABLE, MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE WILL DIE. people will no longer permit muslims from making fools of them and pretend that allah is real And Muhammad was a good man. Science never said that the sun sets in muddy water and that women are stupier than men and that black were created to be slaves to whites.

Maimonides was a pupil of Islam? LOL. Here's what Maimonides said about Jews living in Muslim lands:

Maimonides a Jewish philosopher who lived for a time in Muslim Spain and then fled the land remarked, “You know my brethren, that on the account of our sins God has caste us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us….No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have….We have borne our imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.

Well, well, well Mr J. D. Carson

The following is what you listed as sciences and contended that those "so called Muslims" that studied them faithfully had apostate views yet Muslims refer to this period of learning as the "Golden Period." To cut a long story short, from what you've written it appears that you are trying to say that Muslims are being hypocrites by referring to the achievements and progress of these so called Muslims as the golden period yet they abhor the unislamic material of the studies and subsequent findings of the same.

Lets take a look at the "sciences" you listed in your awe insporing article:

(1) sorcery
(2) philosophy
(3) magic
(4) astrology
(5) the sciences of the materialists
(6) and anything that is a means to create doubts

(1) Since when did sorcery become a science? Who is the most eminent scientist in sorcery in the modern world? Were you feeling OK when you wrote that article Mr Carson? Islam states that sorcery is an evil, it takes you away from the realms of the real world and the purpose of man on earth. It instills undue fear and subjugation in those that are ignorant enough to engage in it. It is false. Yes Islam is against sorcery because sorcery is not a science.

(2) Philosopy is a serious study, I agree here, and No Islam is not against the study in this regard. Islam itself is a thinking man's religion and Allah (SWT) urges mankind to, consider, wonder, reflect, equate, engage with the world and the creation again and again in the Holy Quran. Now, naturally philosophers are human and there will be many contradictions in approach and conclusion and many conclusions by Philosophers will contradict other equally eminent Philosophers. There is no harm in studying and pondering over various approaches to understand the human existence. It is unless and until a Muslim starts to believe in a reason or belief which contradicts an "established" Islamic belief that he starts to leave the fold of Islam. He can still be regarded as a Philosopher, just not a Muslim one. But then again, who are we to judge who is and who is not? So, Islam has produced great thinkers and these thinkers have described themselves as Muslims, and I would say they probably knew themselves better than we know them.

(3) Your next science is Magic!!!! What the heck!!! Call me a backwards Muslim if you must, but dude, magic ain't no science. Islam was correct to challenge this as many people were misleading people and engaging in such practices to instill fear in people and to subjugate them.

(4) Your next science is astrology. I'll provide you with the definition: Astrology (from Greek ἄστρον, astron, "constellation, star"; and -λογία, -logia, "the study of") is a group of systems, traditions, and beliefs which hold that the relative positions of celestial bodies and related details can provide information about personality, human affairs, and other terrestrial matters. A practitioner of astrology is called an astrologer or astrologist. Dude, I tink you confusin it wit Astronomy, which, actually is a serious science. Again, Islam is guilty of not believing in fortune telling or tarot cards! I plead guilty also. As for Astronomy, Muslims excelled in this field without disbelieving in their religion and actuallly found islam to be their anchor because of Islam's emphasis on reflecting on the creation. By the way, i'm an aquarius, do you think i'll find my true love this year?

(5) The sciences of the materialists: Feel free to call it whatever you please. Islam clearly teaches that Allah (SWT) created the universe including mankind. He set up delicate but certain laws which govern them. The existence of the laws of nature is actually evidence of intelligent design and not the other way around. cause and effect is illogical if you miss out the "God" equation because a cause and effect regression cannot go on infinitely because the initial cause has to be infinite and not subjected to a cause itself, therefore, this initial cause is Allah himself (basic creationist science). Islam is not averse to this science it actually expounds it. So belief in cause and effect can be held without a
Muslim compromising his faith but actually strengthening it.

(6) Anything that creates doubts. Ha. Doubting is inquisitive and any scientist who does not have this inquisitive nature ought not to be a scientist. However a scientist who actually believes in God (not very fashionable nowadays) can still be inquisitive, pursue many lines of questioning and experimenting and still keep his faith. If evidence emerges which conclusively proves that there is no God I will be the first to become an atheist. So, again no contradiction.

Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

(The Holy Quran : Surah Al Baqarah)

KABIRLAW,
So can you please tell us why Shooting stars are chasing jinns?

to Kabirlaw #6

It still does not change the fact that most of the so called Islamic scientists were Freethinkers who abhors Islamic doctrine. They were silent apostates of their time and Muslims benefited from their knowledge. It was the support of the Caliph that saved their neck from being decapitated.

This was Abu Bakar Zakariyya Ar Razi or Rhazes's criticism on the Quran:

"You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. ... By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?!

The Quranic verse that you presented as your conclusive point are not special as all the phenomenon stated were observable in 7th century Arabia.

But to tell you frankly, I have deepest respect for you due to your politeness. Peace Bro.

Humanity is but one family. :)

To Focussed

Can you please tell me why modern, enlightened, forward thinking intellectual people like yourself call them "shooting stars"? Pure primitive. They're actually meteors and have nothing to do with stars. About the Jinn, its about belief, what can one explain to you about that?

To: kenmirzz

I haven't done much research on Islamic Scientists but I feel I have explained my position in my earlier response when I said that you can pursue genuine science and methodology and still be a Muslim (as there is no contradiction). There are modern day Scientists who believe in God and not the Evolution Theory (Creationist Scientists) and are very knowledgeable and eminent people who contribute massively to science and society. There are also scientists who actually embraced Islam because of their scientific discoveries also.

So, if a particular person wishes to leave Islam, so be it, if someone wants to embrace Islam, so be it. Just don't try making out that ALL Muslim scientists of any decent callibre became apostates because scientific advancement or discovery conflicted with their beliefs.

Peace Bro

To kenmirzz

Oh yeah, about the quranic verse. See how you jump to conclusions as instinctively as a battle drill.

The verse I presented was to explain that God tells Muslims to observe, contemplate, check his creation, as in it are signs for people who are wise. (meaning that it is an injunction that sits comfortably with efforts to learn and gain knowledge. So Islam is not anti-science or anti learning but supports scientific endeavours).

I didn't try to use that verse to explain the theory of relativity or something!

Regards

To Kenmirzz

I apologise for multiple posting but I forgot to mention something about good old Abu Bakar Zakariyya.

Many critics of Islam have lived, are living and will live in the future, Kenmirzz, Many. What makes Mr Zakariyya any different? He is but one of them.

Many believers of Islam have lived, are living and will live in the future, Many. What makes Abd al-Rahman al-Khazini any different? He is also but one of them.

Science in medieval Islam, also known as Islamic science, is a term used in the history of science to refer to the science developed in the Islamic world between 7th and 16th centuries, a period also known as the Islamic Golden Age.[1] Most texts during this period were written in Arabic, a lingua franca of this period; although most scientists were Muslims but they were of diverse ethnicity (mostly[2] Persian but also some of Arab, Berber, Moorish, and Turkic background),[3] in addition to some from other religious backgrounds (Christian, Jewish, Sabian, Zoroastrian, and irreligious).[4][5]
(Wikepaedia)

Islam had no scientists or intellectuals as all were in countries already inhabited by other scientists. Lands stolen and ideas taken are considered Islamic after the real men were killed. Islam is satanic and Muhammad was evil and believed in omens. In fact that he said Black women were a sign of a bad omen means he believed in sorcery. He believed in turning Jews into rats and pigs and apes. Muslims believed in the sun in muddy water and the earth was flat. Pure Islamic science, is the reason Colombus took so long going to the new world as Muslims had said a,llah said the earth was flat. looooooooool

To Raisin Head.

Have you stopped taking your medicine again?

You can only accept the existence of "Islamic science, Islamic philosophy, Islamic food, Islamic tax code" at the expense of implicitly admitting Islam as a totalitarian ideology. Because although you have such things as Russian music, Chinese art, American literature or Indian food, Islam is a religion as it relies on divine authority, but not a culture as culture relies on human capacity. But if one were to conflate the two, you are, in essence, saying: human capacity is a product of divine authority. And as a person who has lived in the secular and democratic West for all his life, I have a huge problem with this proposition.

#14 Never took meds but you need medS to leave Islam aS YOU HAVE NO SENSE TO LEAVE ON YOUR OWN. iNFIDELS INVENTED MEDS YOU NEED as allah has camel piss and milk awaiting mussies-right #14. Now dont try to say allah didnt mean for you to taste the piss and milk of camels. Pigs i know he told the Jews only no one else not to eat pigs in the desert, but ONLY JEWS> Noah was told to eat it all as much as he wanted. Drink it all too. Mo said no because when drunk the Mussies couldnt rob and steal as good as when sober. Jews and Christians kep on drinking. Jesus freed us from the Mosaic Law no one ever kept. Even Jesus broke the Sabbath Law when he plucked corn. Friday was a pagan moon god's sabbath not Jews. Every Friday is pagan and a sanatana holy day from the Arabia desert and areas nearby. All days are holy now under Jesus, not just one. Sabbath is now gone and PO MO didnt know it. Everyday is a Sabbath. Everyday. PO MO lost out. Satan made Mo his messiah because he derided Jesus theMessiah of the Creator and Satan hated Jesus and wanted him discredited. He lost as PO MO has not made us all bow down to allah and never will.

@kabirlaw #10
Evolution is considered a scientific fact.
I am not aware of any prominent present day scientist who does not believe in evolution.
Muslims did make a significant contribution to science during the Dark Ages.
Al-Ghazali did a great disservice to Muslims by opposing rationalists like Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina.He was against ijtehad (reformation),the Mutazili movement eventually died.Asharites are basically responsible for the deplorable condition Muslims find themselves these days.

ibnrushd:

@kabirlaw #10
Evolution is considered a scientific fact.

I say:

From what I understand evolution is a fact and a theory.

ibnrushd:

Muslims did make a significant contribution to science during the Dark Ages.
Al-Ghazali did a great disservice to Muslims by opposing rationalists like Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina.He was against ijtehad (reformation),the Mutazili movement eventually died.Asharites are basically responsible for the deplorable condition Muslims find themselves these days.

To my knowledge Islam was not the foundation of much cultural or scientific development at all. It is undeniable that there was a great cultural and scientific flowering in the Middle Ages, but there is no indication that any of this flowering actually came as a result Of Islam itself, but from nonmuslims who served their Muslim masters.

The architectural design of the Mosque's was copied from the architecture of the Byzantine Churches and the construction of domes and arches was developed over a thousand years before the advent of Islam. The 7th century Dome of the Rock was not only copied from Byzantine architecture, but was built by Byzantine craftsmen.

The astrolabe was developed before Muhammed was born.

Avicenna and other Muslim philosophers built on the work of Aristotle. In fact it was the Christians who preserved Aristotle's work. Huneyn Ibn Ishaq ( 809-873 ) translated many works of Aristotle, Galen, Plato, and Hippocrates into Syriac, which his son translated into Arabic. The first hospital of Baghdad was built by a Nestorian Christian Jabrail ibn bakhtishu. Assyrian Christians founded a pioneering medical school at Gundeshapur in Persia. The world's first university may not have been the Muslims Al-Azhar in Cairo, but the Assyrian School of Nisibis.

Muslims established the first pharmacies and were the first to require standards of knowledge and competence from doctors and pharmacists, enforced by examination. After the first hospital in Baghdad was built many more followed, but it was not the Muslims who paved the way for modern medical advances, it was a Belgium physician and researcher, Andreas Vesalius ( 1514-1564 ), by publishing the first accurate description of human internal organs, De Humani Corporis Fabrica ( On the Fabric of the Human body ) in 1543.

The first Arabic medical treatise was written by a Christian priest and translated into Arabic by a Jewish doctor in 683. In the 9th century while under the Umayyads and Abbasids dynasties a wealth of Greek writings on medicine and astronomy were translated into Arabic by Nestorian Christians. The scientists of the Islamic world stood firmly on the foundation of Greek Science. The Nestorian Christians also translated Mathematics and medicine into Syriac and Christians translated for Muslims in Spain. Algebra and the number zero was invented by the Hindus of India.

There is a common misconception that the Muslims translated Greek science into Latin when in reality Christians translated Greek writings into Latin 2 to 3 centuries before. Also in the 13th century Robert Grosseteste, the first chancellor of Oxford University in England, found that the Arabic translations of Greek authors so inaccurate, and in consequence misrepresented misrepresented the original meaning of the authors, that he introduced Greeks from the Near East as instructors in their own language, so that the works could be studied in their original language.

One scholar Eugene Myers states, Islam did not go beyond the achievements of Hellenistic Mechanics, no new inventions of importance were made. A major reason for the lack of new inventions lies in the following explanation: The Muslims were the pupils of Greek sciences and philosophy and they regarded the books of the Greek masters as fixed systems laid down once and for all.

In regards to the writings of Aristotle and exc, translations into Arabic actually took place a couple of centuries before Muhammed was born.

Christian missionaries in South America, destroyed many indigenous manuscripts, of incalculable historic value and interest. The reason given was that if these manuscripts contained anything that was not in the Bible, then they were the work of the devil, and should be destroyed, but if they agreed with the Bible, then they were superflous and should still be destroyed.
I don't think even the most pious christian would do such a thing today, but I someone may contradict me, however, Muslims still seem to have a similar mind set, because they are told that the Koran contains everything anybody needs to know. Now it seems to me even as an atheist, that if one had a book of all the knowledge ever in your hands, given to you by the person who created everything, it would seem downright ungrateful, if not actually blasphemous
(because you would be doubting the truth of that), to then start checking the laws of the physical world through experiment, or even worse, to try and invent some contraption that is not even mentioned in this book of life, the universe, and everything, known as the Koran. We now have the ridiculous situation where everytime something new comes along, the muslim ummah has to wait and see if the 'mullahs' declare it halal or harram, before they can use it. Strangely enough, its usually declared halal, because wait for it....the Koran does not expressley forbid it!!! What they mean by that is that the book of everything doesn't mention it. So the ummah can use cellphones because the Koran doesn't forbid it! You may be wondering what has all this got to do with the topic at hand, well friends, this is precisely why there is no Islamic science,
suppose the devout muslim scientist (assuming there is/was one) invents something that is marvelous, or through sleepless nights and sheer brain power, comes across the solution to the physicists holy grail, the Theory Of Everything, only for the mullahs to declare it haram and accuse the inventor/scientist of apostasy? And there you have in a nutshell why no muslim ever has or will make any noteworthy contribution to science or even the humanities, after all, what good muslim would want to further the cause of humanity, at the risk of being declared apostate, and having his head removed from his shoulders to boot?

@Marie

I don't have a problem with people who admit evolution as "Fact" but creationists always deny it because it falsifies their religious belief system.
Scholars such as Will Durant and Alexander von Humboldt regarded Muslim chemists to be the founder of Chemistry.

We should not be blinded by our prejudices.
The names of Muslims who contributed to science are too numerous I shall just mention a few.
Alhazen
Ibn Bajjah(Avampace)
Arzachel
Ibn zuhr
Ibn Al baita
Al Battani
Al baruni
Al Jabr

Al kindi
Al Razi
Ibn Khaldun
Try to google their names you may be surprised.

You quoted Eugene Myers,let me give you a quote from Al Hazen the greatest polymath and physicist of his time.

"Therefore,the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and following his natural disposition,puts his trust in them,but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them,the one who submits to argument and demonstration,and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency.Thus the duty of man who investigates writings of scientists,if hearing the truth is his goal,is to make himself an enemy of all he reads, and,applying his mind to the core and margins of its content,attack it from every side.He should also suspect himself as he performs the critical examination of it,so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency".
Alhazen,i believe laid the foundation of scientific method.

Ibnrushd, the astrolobe was invented in the Hellenic world around 200 BC and it was often attributed to Hipparchus. Theon of Alexandria wrote a detailed treatise on the astrolabe, and Ptolemy used might have used an astrolabe to make the astronomical observations recorded in the Tetrabiblos.

But brass astrolabes were developed in the medieval Islamic world, chiefly as an aid to navigation and as a way of finding the qibla, the direction of Mecca. The first person credited with building the astrolabe in the Islamic world is reportedly the eighth century mathematician, Muhammad al-Fazari. The mathematical background was established by the Arab astronomer Albatenius, in his treatise Kitab az-Zij (ca. 920 AD), which was translated into Latin by Plato Tiburtinus . Arzachel of Al-Andalus constructed the first universal astrolabe instrument which, unlike its predecessors, did not depend on the latitude of the observer, and could be used from anywhere on the Earth.

Surgery was a common practice in various countries such as China, India, Greece, and exc. hundreds of years before Ibn Zuhr was born. In the Middle Ages, surgery was developed to a high degree in the Islamic world. Ibn Zuhr wrote medical texts that shaped European surgical procedures up until the Renaissance. He is also often regarded as a Father of Surgery.

While Ibn Al-Baitar did develop an early form of the scientific method, it was Isaac Newton who fathered the method.

Optics began with the development of lenses by the ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamians. The earliest known lenses were made from polished crystal, often quartz, and have been dated as early as 700 BC for Assyrian lenses such as the Layard/Nimrud lens. The ancient Romans and Greeks filled glass spheres with water to make lenses. These practical developments were followed by the development of theories of light and vision by ancient Greek and Indian philosophers, and the development of geometrical optics in the Greco-Roman world. The word optics comes from the ancient Greek word ὀπτική, meaning appearance or look. Plato first articulated his emission theory, the idea that visual perception is accomplished by rays of light emitted by the eyes and commented on the parity reversal of mirrors in Timaeus. Some hundred years later, Euclid wrote a treatise entitled Optics wherein he describes the mathematical rules of perspective and describes the effects of refraction qualitatively. Ptolemy, in his treatise Optics, summarizes much of Euclid and goes on to describe a way to measure the angle of refraction, though he failed to notice the empirical relationship between it and the angle of incidence.

Al-Kindi (c. 801–73) was one of the earliest important writers on optics in the Islamic world. In a work known in the West as De radiis stellarum, al-Kindi resurrected Plato's emission theory. In 984, the Persian mathematician, Ibn Sahl wrote a treatise "On Burning Mirrors and Lenses", correctly describing a law of refraction mathematically equivalent to Snell's law. He used his law of refraction to compute the shapes of lenses and mirrors that focus light at a single point on the axis. In the early 11th century, Alhazen wrote his Book of Optics, which extensively documented the then-current Islamic understanding of optics and revolutionized the field. It included the first descriptions of optical phenomena associated with pinholes and concave lenses, provided the first correct explanation of vision, described various experiments using an early scientific method, and greatly influenced the later development of the modern telescope.

By the way Chemistry came from Alchemy.

I don't believe in the term "Islamic science" and I don't care if this makes me look like a bigot. There is only science.

"Quran contains everything that a muslim needs to know"
This is absolutely true! What a muslim needs to know is: Who is Mohammed? Mo is the last prophet of Allah and he is the role model for all humans (muslims) to emulate: What to emulate, look at Quran and aHdit, everything is written clearly without ambiguity.
holy thighing of infants and pre-pubescent girls
holy screwing of women, wives & right hand possessions
sending non-muslims to jannat using sword
looting kafir property
etc. I dont' want to repeat, everybody who visit ffi know it.

Why do muslims need science and scientists when scientific discovoveris, inventions are made by infedals/kafirs. Rich muslim/Arabs can buy it using their petrodollars.

In Saudi Barbaria, birth place of Islam, as soon as 'azan' or call for prayer is sounded, all shops and establishments are closed, all activities are stopped. The so called Islamic scientist intently observing some experiment in his laboratory is jolted by the azan and he rushes to bang his head on the floor in the process forgetting what he has been doing in the laboratory! So much for Islamic science and scientists!!!

kabirlaw # 6

A few words of advice. Before you embarrass yourself publicly any further, you should read the article by the author Carson more carefully. The 6 "sciences" he refers to are actually quoted from the book "Reliance of the Traveller" by al-Misri who was a Muslim. They are not the personal views of Carson which you so hastily derided. He was merely commenting on these antiquated views. Did you in your indecent haste to insult him miss those big apostrophe marks?

Islamic science is a big lie. It was the conquered Jews and Christians who translated the Greek and Latin books to the illiterate Arabs/Muslims. With the fall of Constantipole, all the books and knowledge were transferred to Europe. Who burned the great library of Alexandria? and I quote "if it is not in the Quran then we do not need it, and if it is in the Quran then we have it".

in their 1400 years of existence Islam produced nothing of significance to humanity and science. The scientist they attribute to themselves are not Arab or Muslims; those were the conquered, forced to convert and Islamised, scientist, poets, mathematicain, medical etc...

Islam is incapable of producing anything. Even their current brains do not dwell in Islamic countries. Despite the wealth of those countries, they prefer to build palaces and hire prostitutes from Edgware Road and Kings Cross.

Their Allah's book is the only complete book which is a load of incomprehensible gibberish, hate and contradiction based on whatever their camel driver managed to get form Syria and surrounding countries before Islamisation.

Qrandic science valid for all-Sun sets in a big muddy pond!
Qrandic medicine- camel urine for all the ills and fly in yor soup? No probs.Dip it in fully as fly has disease in one wing and cure in the other wing.
Qrandic Justice: eye for eye, toothfor tooth, slave for slave
Qrandic Philosophy: thigh an infant and ensure the infant is not damaged.sex with 6 year old is good summah to follow.
Qrandic motto.Live for sex and die for sex here after!
Qrandic use; good as toilet tissue

If Muslims had invented something in Arabia without and infidels around then it would be Islamic science, which no one else would want and Muslims would then say accept our science or die!

Isma has invented nOTHING but with the help of infidels they stole and purged science and everything else from infidels and then pretended they did it. Algebra was invented or found in India and the British thought the Muslims had invented it because the Muslims were big time in India when the Brits arrrived.
Thye found Hindu writing on the Taj Mahal a shiva temple made into a mosque.

Even philosophy was taken from Jews and Christians and the Dharmic religions of the time.

Raisin Head:

Even philosophy was taken from Jews and Christians and the Dharmic religions of the time.

I say:

It was the Christians who preserved the writings of Greek philosophers and translated them in Arabic. Islamic philosophers studied from those translations.

But to say Christians such as Thomas Aquinas learned philosophy from the Muslims is a fallacy because saints such as St. Justin, St. Augustine, St. Athanasius, and St. Jerome. In fact the study of Greek philosophy was embraced by early Christian apologists as a way to defend Christianity.

Marie, next Muslims will say they invented Judaism and christianity to see who won!loooooooooooooooooooooooool

The important question here is:

Did this muslim scientists (because they was born as a muslim) find that discoveries straight from quran? That's why i keep repeating this question so that muslim can prove their quran is truly the birthplace of science. Now, discover NEW scientific facts from quran alone.
- No other sources allowed (because others are infidel and unclean)
- No observation allowed (because everyone can do that with any religious books, even atheist do that)

OK, bring the 1st verse! Clue first then the answer.

Very very good exposition debunking the popular myth of Islamic contribution to Science and philosophy.

I also apperciate very much the input of Marie (#22)

readers may find the following two article by Dr. carson enlightening.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/hyping_islam_s_role_in_the_his.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/06/islam_christianity_classical_c.html

And never forget that the only way to understand Q U R A N is to treat it as an acronym for

Q uestionable
U tterings of a
R abid
A rab
N utcase.

Hellooooooo????? Muuuussslllliiimmmm?????