What happened to Jamshed Iqbal vs. Ali Sina debate? Allah knows best! : Debate Review
Submitted by proudchristian on Thu, 04/23/2009 - 06:48
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So often we have been witnessing various Muslims coming out here at FFI and elsewhere to defend Islam. All of these apologizers of Islam are so brave to defend even apparently indefensible Islamic claims such as "Islam is the religion of peace", "The Quran is contradiction free" or that is an inerrant word of God, "Islam promotes human rights" or that "Islam safe guards the rights of women" and that "Muhammad is an excellent example for all humanity of all ages to follow".
One would question the motives of Islam apologists when speaking of Islam being a peaceful religion when the Shi'a mosques and Shi'a Muslims are daily being bombed down by their Sunni brethren in Pakistan or Iraq. Or that women are held in high esteem in Islam when not a day passes without women being honor killed all over the world. That Islam promotes human rights when it is sanctioned in Islamic texts that minority religions must pay the Jizya if they are people of the book but must be killed if they are polytheists.
It is not that difficult to see why Muslims must come out to defend Islam even if the challenge of defending Islam is very difficult and obviously impossible. Prior to 9/11, no one was interested in Islam. It was regarded as one of those world religions at the level of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism or Buddhism. After all, we are all humans and all religions lead to God, politically correct, naïve leftists will tell you. However, Christianity, being a dominant religion in western countries has always been scrutinized philosophically since the age enlightenment came into effect during the 17th century. Apart from faith alone, Christianity was forced to defend itself using reason. Some of its radical claims such as the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ had to be independently verified by New Testament scholars for its validity. The New Testament text was checked for its authenticity through Archeology and other scientific methods. As a result the West has produced some vibrant Christian philosophers such as Dr. William Lane Craig who has come forward to present Christianity as a rational faith and philosophically true. At the same time Islam has been thriving with no scrutiny for centuries under the veneer of Christianity and other religions that God or Gods are a universal belief so there is no need for Islam to produce proof.
Since 9/11, it was the turn of Islam to give specific vindications of its claims. Muslims had to come forward to explain to the hitherto ignorant non-Muslims all radical claims about Islam. In other words, Muslims must present Islam as a rational and philosophically true faith. Some of these philosophical questions are, for example:
What is Islam?
Who is Allah?
Who is Muhammad?
What is the relationship between Allah and Muhammad?
Is the Quran an infallible word of God? How do we know that Muhammad is the true prophet of God?
As you may see, these are very fundamental questions for any religion and not very easy questions to answer at this very age of rationality and technology. But in the case of Islam, they were not easy questions to answer since the very early beginning of Islam, even when Muhammad was still alive.
Muhammad severely discouraged asking tough questions. Under that tradition, Islam to this very day discourages asking those skeptical questions. Those who lost their faith after asking themselves such questions, they must be killed and silenced forever. But this is the 21st century and Muslims apostates have managed to make their voice heard through the internet by scrutinizing Islam, through these philosophical questions.
Therefore some so-called Muslim philosophers are compelled to respond by debating the authenticity of Islam and one of these so-called Muslim philosophers is Mr. Jamshed Iqbal. Mr. Jamshed Iqbal began the debate by challenging Ali Sina to debate on what he (Jamshed Iqbal) calls:
"providing you rational/logical and psycho-philosophical insights to prove Mohammad's (pbuh) genuine oneness with supreme reality and prophet hood through debate!"
On my part, that was an arresting and captivating start by Mr. Jamshed Iqbal. He went further on his second part of the debate by saying:"Problem of the prophet-hood is the question of means, sources and ends of knowledge-the question of epistemology in scholarly terms."
Honestly, I failed to comprehend this one. On the first statement I thought by providing rational and logical insights about the genuineness of the prophet hood of Muhammad was to insinuate in the reader's mind that Muhammad was a prophet of God because he did this and that out of this world experience, which can be independently verified by interested scholars. This is what I expected in his second part of the debate. But he went on throwing gibberish drivel throughout, such that one would ask if this is the man who teaches English Literature and Western Philosophy in some universities or the one working on Encyclopedia of Western Thought? That was hilarious to say. Ali Sina promised to update the debate as it was unfolding, but this is day four since the debate was last updated and the readers, both Muslims and non-Muslims, are left stranded. The debate is still here waiting the response to Ali Sina from Mr. Jamshed Iqbal. But there are no sign whatsoever that Mr. Jamshed is going to respond. But wait! Who knows when Allah knows best!
Great one Proud Christian!
Great one Proud Christian! The most important thing to remember here is that Jamshed was no different from all the other Muslims who have come to the FFI forum to debate Ali Sina. His approah was no different from that of those who abuse Sina.Perhaps he had realised that there was no way out for him and perhaps he was not even worth debating.
All the points that he raised were meanigless in the light of debate. A good debator keeps it plain and straighfoward. He puts forward his case supported by facts in a language comprehensible to one and all and that's about it. Using fancy words and showing off University degress don't mean anything when one has to prove a point.
For thing for sure...either u
For thing for sure...either u r a good reader r bad reader..
bt if u really loves Humanity not any Religon..i'm not talking ab8 Religons..i'm jst talking ab8 Humanity
if u really really love Humanity thn definatly u r not true Muslim and follower of Allah,Quran and Muhammed...
and one thing more...If u deeply study Quran and hadith for understand..after reading and if u understand whole thing..u'll become mently ill...
Really its not a JOke..
If ur wife is not agree to go on bed wid you..thn beat her and do sex forcly....wat we call it Holy Sect r Rape...
my God plz forgive all of us...and Give Wisdom to all...
i dont know...wat thy are thinking now...
Killing
Raping
thts the fun for thm..
Suicide boombing and after tht direct ticket to Heaven and 72 Beauty queens..
can any muslim plz let me know where is this heaven..
how after killing so many innocent ppl u will go to Heaven...
why only muslims will go to Heaven..
wat is reason...
how do u accept a person who will beat ur sister if she is not in a mod to have a sex wid her...and beat her and take her to bed forcly it is called rape in our thinking..
if this happens to ur sister its too rape...bt if some ones else sister...ya tht man is doing fine..it should happen..coz its a rite of man..
if male and female are equal in islam...
thn y beating is only allowed to male...
if male is corrupt thn why wife is not allowed to beat him
if wife wanna take her hubby to bed..thn y wife is not allowed to force her hubby and beat him to have sex wid him..
open ur Brains my all dear Brothers and sister...
nothing gona change..if u dont wanna understand..tell me hoestly does really God Choosen one need confirmation tht i'm Prophet r not..
tell me...
i'm here 24/7
why kahdija first wife of Mohammed told him tht it wasnt satan ..it was from Allah and tht wasnt satan tht was Gabrial...
wao...Prophet dont know bt her wife knows...
can any body tell me wat was the first religion of Mohammed..
if he was Prophet by Birth...thn y at first he was Bowing in Front of Arab gods...
can any body clear this thing..
If allah is realy a God...
y he said kill non-muslims..
y he allowed you to beat ur wife..y He made Women...if she is so so bad..y so much discrimination
y allah is doing so unjustice..
plz comment me...
m i wrong..
y women equal to dog monky
Poma, I think we need to
Poma,
I think we need to remember that just about every muslim has two things in common: a belief in the sanctity of a book full of absurdities and nonsense- and the expectation of being taken seriously, the thing all sane people of the world are not willing to do.
so sad so so so sad...we love
so sad so so so sad...we love thm bt they kill us
Apart from the fact that it
Apart from the fact that it is impossible to defend islam, Mr Jamshed's debating skills were pathetic! He didn't clearly answer questions but instead kept declaring things.These dogmatic statements were always followed by an exclamation mark.Like:
I am sorry my friend you have even no idea as what the debate is about! What areas of knowledge or disciplines our debate falls in! or even how to debate on these issues!
You were right in inviting Mr. Zakir Naik for he was your good match! And your whole knowledge abut Islam is based on the understandings of Zakir Naiks! You have never been fortunate enough to see those who live Islam or those who found Islam!
OR even worse:
I am sorry my friend, you have lost the debate before it started!
Proud Christian great piece.
Proud Christian great piece. See what Muslims do when confronted with comments they are unable to answer. Mr. Sina has no competition. This is why the so-called scholar stick to allah's word sura 5:101,1,2 NO QUESTIONS. Allah said Muslims will leave Islam if they ask questions!
We are able to debate them and they run. Mr. Sina has helped many of us debate any and I mean ANY muslim and they run. What they do is then go on a debate on other religions like Christiasnity. They put down the bible while using the "corrupt" book to prove Muhammad. How insane!
I am not a member of christendom or any religion, but the Bible is my choice of "holy book". Based on the logic and research completed it is a book of Love from the christian perspective from Matthews to Revelations. As no man is told to kill another is enough for me. Regardless of the sin, the christians are told to let god handle the matter. Since none of us are god, then it is not our business or right to kill anyone becacause they dont serve the same god we do.
Allah is Satan according to Sura 3:54.
Apart from the Quran, perhaps
Apart from the Quran, perhaps the Bible is the most illogical book ever to be written. It consists of absurdities and asinine material which is I am sorry to say extremely stupid. Perhaps this is the reason why all the educated and Free Thinkers of Europe and America are leaving Christianity big time.
One of the most printed book along with its semitic counterpart the Quran, the Bible is a guidance for those wish to gain better insight into killing, raping and pillaging. One the favourite pastimes of the Christian God is asking his followers to murder babies and ask his followers to take virgins as their concubines.
Perhaps its time for this evil along with its couterpart called the quran to be thrown into the dustbin of history.
#7 Name one. Remember the OT
#7 Name one. Remember the OT was for Jews only. The NT was for everyone.
Excelent Article!
Excelent Article!
One of my cousins left and
One of my cousins left and kicked islam few yrs ago. He became an athiest.But when i visited him at his place few wks back I was amazed to know that he had become ardent admirer and learned scholar of Upnishads and Gita. he started believing in karma theory of hindus.
conclusion; I think there occurs a vacuume when one leaves islam and one finds no difference btwn Quran and Bible. He had to seek the truth either in various hindu scriptures ie Hinduism, or Budhism, or science & rationalism,or philosophical outlook of life.I feel one has to believe on something according to his intellect and experience and surroundings.My cousin says that he finds highest flights of thoughts& life in upnishads. Will somebody explain me the brief of upnishads in 10-15 lines, or let me know the proper site for learning it.
Proudchristian, Great
Proudchristian,
Great article and good to see you back...been a while.
Raisinhead....yeah, many pastors preach from nt vs. ot....we study ot in church, but as far as following examples of Christ it is all nt.
OT is law...nt...forgiveness and grace.
Hey, would someone be so kind
Hey, would someone be so kind as to briefly explain "kharma" thanks
Following are some good
Following are some good questions asked by the " proud Christian "--
"" Muslims must present Islam as a rational and philosophically true faith. Some of these philosophical questions are, for example:
What is Islam? --- etc. etc..
And the author Proud and also a Christian, never dared to ask -- never dared as he himself believes in some Book just like Qu'rand. Just a believer never a knower.
What is God?
What is a Prophet ?
And I can add few more logical questions to his short list
Who is a Virgin and can any one remain a virgin after giving birth to a child?
Just think logically, scientifically and if you like ,think philosophically also.
People of the Books !! Rotten old Books. !!
Halalpork the Bible is not
Halalpork the Bible is not bad. It tells you the OT was Jews only. the TNT was for all. Now if you compare the bible and the quran you are mistaken. the Bible says love your neighbor and the Quran says kill your neighbor if they refuse Islam. The bible says if one does want the gospel walk away. Now be honest are they the same. CHRISTIANITY AND CHRISTENDOM ARE NOT THE SAME. THE QURAN IS NOT THE BIBLE NO WHERE NEAR THE SAME.
Hold on. Jamshed is now
Hold on. Jamshed is now holding consultation with allahchubhanutalla. how to reply Ali. Let him finish. Be patient.
Its the same story everytime.
Its the same story everytime. I have a debate with an extreme muslim in my country. He avoids every question, using bad language. If you push them a little bit they become agressive or they dont answer. I have followed the debates here for some time and mr. Sina uncover their lies every time. Keep up the good work
#13. YOur questions: 1.
#13. YOur questions:
1. No-one can claim to understand God, therefore no-one can describe him. All we can do is explain our understanding of him (and I use the male term simply out of convenience - God has no sex!) Before anyone screams that this is irrational, may I politely point out that Physicists (I am one btw) don't really understand either the Universe or the atom, but scientific descriptions of these are used widely.
2. A 'prophet' can be one of two things. S/he can 'foretell' things. "Crystal ball gazing" if you like - but accurate. (Jesus did this with eg the fall of Jerusalem), or (more importantly in my mind) s/he can 'forthtell' things. i.e. set out truths about God (note 1 above!) as Jesus did both in his life and sayings.
3. A virgin? Is
a) a female with intact hymen. By this definition quite a number of gymnast /ballet dancing girls would not be 'virgins'. So not a good defn.
b). a female who has not had sex. Using this defn your question becomes (virtually) self-answering.
I grant that this opens up the question of "virgin-conception", but may I point out that a number of species are parthenogenetic i.e. they have 'virgin-births' all the time.
Hi all , Is there any article
Hi all ,
Is there any article on the aspect of islam being the re-birth of the pagan moon god's religion?I have seen idols of allah via google search's.
--
then isn't muslim sorcery(blackmagic) one of the strongest?Is ali sina knows about this?
#18 Yes Islam is the
#18 Yes Islam is the continuation of the ancient moon-god worship.. Illah was the moon god of the ancients Arans named Sabeans. They were the ones who stole JOB's cattle and killed his servants. The covered theri camels with the crescent moon and star as Muslims do today. Camels with the crescent star moon and star have been discovered in Arabia where arabs traded withthe Jews as traders not rulers. When the Jews served the moon god of the Arabs they always went into slavery. when they stopped they were revived.
Muhammad was into the occult according to Hadith 9:162,3. He believed in bad and good omens, turning men into rats and pigs, naming farts, a big fart and a little fart.
Marie wonder what happened to Londonspirit? I bet the Muslims made him stop commenting. Since the god of the Bible said no sorcery, Allah was/is the DEVIL as it says he is the greatest Liar and schemer. Now would the creator lie or have to live to the creation. Sura 3:54
@nusratali Teaching of
@nusratali
Teaching of upanishad can be summed up in one statement: "Thou Art That". Meaning of this cryptic statement is equally simple: if there is a god, then that god is you. And me. And everybody, and everything. A belief like this, whether it is right or wrong, is the death knell for any mullah or priest or preacher who wants to tell you that HE, or his church or his mosque, is the only way to get to god. How can such a loud-mouthed fool pretend to place himself between me and myself?
Free Spirit wrote: Karma is
Free Spirit wrote:
Karma is a law in Hinduism which maintains that every act done, no matter how insignificant, will eventually return to the doer with equal impact. Good will be returned with good; evil with evil.
jonc wrote: #13. YOur
jonc wrote:
#13. YOur questions:
1. No-one can claim to understand God, therefore no-one can describe him. All we can do is explain our understanding of him (and I use the male term simply out of convenience - God has no sex!) Before anyone screams that this is irrational, may I politely point out that Physicists (I am one btw) don’t really understand either the Universe or the atom, but scientific descriptions of these are used widely.
2. A ‘prophet’ can be one of two things. S/he can ‘foretell’ things. “Crystal ball gazing” if you like - but accurate. (Jesus did this with eg the fall of Jerusalem), or (more importantly in my mind) s/he can ‘forthtell’ things. i.e. set out truths about God (note 1 above!) as Jesus did both in his life and sayings.
3. A virgin? Is
a) a female with intact hymen. By this definition quite a number of gymnast /ballet dancing girls would not be ‘virgins’. So not a good defn.
By Halal's definition, girls wearing tampons would not be good virgins also.
b). a female who has not had sex. Using this defn your question becomes (virtually) self-answering.
I grant that this opens up the question of “virgin-conception”, but may I point out that a number of species are parthenogenetic i.e. they have ‘virgin-births’ all the time.
Scientists say if a virgin-birth were to happen to a human, the female would have to have another male chromosome.
I agree with most of jonc's statements.
Raisin Head wrote: Marie
Raisin Head wrote:
Marie wonder what happened to Londonspirit? I bet the Muslims made him stop commenting. Since the god of the Bible said no sorcery, Allah was/is the DEVIL as it says he is the greatest Liar and schemer. Now would the creator lie or have to live to the creation. Sura 3:54
He did comeback today and I gave him another headache. Actually it's more like a migraine by now. Come and see our debate.
By the little ding dong went
By the little ding dong went ahead and posted verses from the Bible.
Excellent article.
Excellent article.
#21 I guess we all have bad
#21 I guess we all have bad Kharmas looooooooooool. Look around all of the bad people do. 9-11, Bali, Pakistan, Brooklyn Bridge, India, London, Spain, babies had bad kharmas. Bad Kharmas and good kharmas. Muslims say they got good kharmas when they killed 3000 Americans and got 72 virgins and 28 white boys who never bleed.
#23 where is the debate?
#23 where is the debate?
ProudChristian, a very good
ProudChristian, a very good article. I read the debate between Mr. Jamshed Iqbal and Mr. Ali Sina. Mr. Jamshed tried his best to decieve us. I can tell you even Mr. Jamshed does not believe himself. I bet that he knows that he is lying. Also, he is commanded to lie for the sake of Islam, that is his obligation.
I like to ask every Muslim, "why did Allah chose Muhammad as his prophet?" Why did Allah make him the final prophet? What is the reason? Just to say that Muhammad is to be emulated is not enough, we must know why.
Muslims must not question Allah, the prophet and the Quran, they must obey and have faith. This thinking is also applied to everyday living. Children must obey their father, wife must obey her husband, women is general must obey men. This blind obedience is what keeping Muslims backward.
Next ISLAMIC state to
Next ISLAMIC state to collapse after Pakistan
In Bangladesh, 21 women terrorists held in raids
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/21-women-terrorists-held-in-Bde...
Mr jamshed.... you think u
Mr jamshed....
you think u tried to b a smart bt acctually u r not...u tried to b rich be sorry u r not..
hey Ali Sina...there should b a contract...who ever Challenge here on ur Challenge,,,,there should be a rule..
1.thy win and Get cash and u'll close the web and also say sorry to all muslims and accept Islam again...
2. You will also mail to all those who left Islam coz of this web site and thy all will post there sorry and also Pay some amount so one....like tht
HEHEHE
But THERE SHOULD B THIRD RULE>>>>>>>>
i hope u all will b agree to me...if not no need to b harsh wid me...
RULE THIRD
3))))))>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If any body leave and run from the debeat after challenging ALI SINA he r she has to Pay the Same amount which Ali Sina mentiond in the Challange..
so in this way Ali Sina will b more able to Pay for the Web Space...
m i rite?
there shold b a law...
othere wise daily some jamshid will come and waste our times...
out teachers times
and so on...
Mr. Jamshed Iqbal commented
Mr. Jamshed Iqbal commented on this article but I don't know why he did not post his comment directly here. Here is what he wrote:
"My dear brother in humanity Ali Sina,
Of course I would love to answer ProudChristian but "if he contacts me through my email and not publish it on your website". Your forum (I wonder if it is forum at all?) is not for serious and honest debate for you even don't bother to delete or moderate abusive and nonsensical comments.
However, to serious readers, even if they are non-Muslims, you appear to be at wrong end for you are publishing such comments to get or cast a false impression (I have recieved 100s of mails my non-Muslim brothers and sisters who think so....) for It is clear to any honest reader or seeker that your website is only meant to express cliches and outright prejudice!
I have noted ProudChritian's comments and I would answer him if my brother cherishes his certificate as "badge of honor"!
Sincere,
Jamshed Iqbal "
I’d like to respond to Mr.
I’d like to respond to Mr. Iqbal.
Hello Jamshed,
Faithfreedom.org believes in freedom of expression. This is a difficult concept for a Muslim to understand. It also shocked me when I first came out of Iran. I used to think there must be someone to stop this or that guy from saying such thing. Eventually I realized there is no such person and people are really free to say anything. I know it will shock you, but there are men here who dress as women and go to the street and no one even looks at them. As long as you don’t bother someone else, you can do and say anything you like. Eventually I came to like this freedom and in this site we actually practice it. We never censor people for saying thing that we don’t like, let alone for saying things that some of the readers don’t like. God knows how many men dress as women when they write in FFI. We don’t care. LOL (I like you, so I joke with you. Don’t take me too serious)
You say we give false impression of Islam. Well, that may be true, but where is that Muslim to come and correct that false impression? If we are not telling the truth it should be very easy to catch our lies. Why no one is doing it?
I have no fear of going to any Islamic forum and debate with anyone. I am not allowed to do that. The reason I started this blog is because I was censored in all Islamic sites. In this site there is no censorship and despite that Muslims are not coming to debate. So we cannot debate in their forums and we cannot debate in our forum. The bottom line is that Muslims don’t want to debate. They want to tell us what we should believe and not question the validity of that belief.
Anyway, this forum is free. If someone thinks he can prove us wrong, he’s welcomed. The only thing that I can do is protect him from being insulted and assaulted. This won’t happen, but if it does, I will ban those who abuse you. That is the only cause for being banned.
While we respect you as our guest, Islam is fair game here. There is no respect for Islam in this forum. Our goal is to get rid of it and not respect it. Islam does not deserve any respect. My philosophy is that people have to be respected but their beliefs don’t have to be respected.
Anyway, you are welcome to post here any time. Any Muslim is welcome. If we misunderstand Islam, we are also providing you the opportunity to dispel those misunderstandings. Many people read this site and many of them are young Muslims. You must agree that a good percentage of them will wonder why Muslim scholars are shying away. I really write for them. You and I are probably, alla metà del cammino della vita, as Dante so eloquently put it, and on our way out. I am interested on the generation that follows us. I invite you also to have them in mind. Why should you be even concerned about me? Trust the intelligence of your readers and express your views freely. They can see the logic in your argument, if there is any, even if I fail to.
Thank you Ali Sina for a
Thank you Ali Sina for a reply to Mr. Jamshed on my behalf.
And thank you all who read
And thank you all who read this article and found it good.
HI GUYS SO FINALLY I JOIN U I
HI GUYS SO FINALLY I JOIN U I HAVE BEEN READING THIS SITE FROM LAST 8 MONTHS BUT HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO CREATE ACCOUNT .
ITS REALLY NICE I LIKE U THE WAY U ARE FIGHTING AGAINST HATE NOTE FAITH.THANKS GOD BLESS YOU SPECIALLY ALI SINA.
I HAVE READ YOUR DEBATE WITH JAMSHED IQBAL ONE OF THE BIGGEST (XXXX) FROM PAKISTAN .HE CANT ANS FOR A SINGLE QUESTION I AM WAITING FOR HIS REPLY THAT I SHOULD KNOW THAT HE IS A SCHOLAR A GREAT MUSLIM NATION SCHOLAR .THIS IS THE PROB WITH ALL MUSLIMS NOW EVEN THEY ARE EDUCATED BUT STILL THEY CANT THINK THEY CANT USE THERE OWN ,MINDS .THANKS
Mosem scholar perfect example
Mosem scholar perfect example of oxymoron.
What happened to the jammed iqbal is an epystemological doubt! We know that he is not around and has not responded in his usual BS words here.How do we know that we know he has not responded? Simple He has not posted his drivel!
The asinine comments of this great moslem scholar was proof enough. Go in search of 1 idiot and you find 1 billion and odd idiots!
Dear jamshid Iqbal. May the
Dear jamshid Iqbal.
May the Blessings of the God be wid you and your family,
Dear Sir....nice to know tht you wanted to reply...and yes you are right Ali sina all are wrong...ProudeChristain thy all are wrong..thy really dont know ab8 the Real islam..they dont know any thing
Only a Pakistani can understand a Pakistani m i rite?
we Christians really know the meaning of Islam while living in Pakistan...
we realy know the real face of the Islam....
sir keep in mind i damn care ab8 the cultuers
i care ab8 the values and Freedom.so here is a 25year old man..(still singal)hhehe.joke
so come and debeat wid me..well i'm Pakistani u r Pakistani..
there should b some rules...
First we will use simple English
Next wat ever i say plz make sure there will no 295C for me r for my family
coz i really afraid of tht Religion of Peace..
do not abuse me coz of my english...
answer honestly
some of my questions will b childish
bt every question needs Answer
so tell me are you willing to debeat wid Pakistani
i'm really have only one fear of 295C
nothing else...jst coz of my family
other wise i damn care ab8 death
really i'm not afraid of death
bt i dont wanna creat any Problem for my family
so if u really considering ali sina and others are liars
come and debeat wid me...
I m ready
i read u r very Litterat and intelignt person and teaching some where .
my english will not b up to ur standered..bt no come and debeat wid me..if u r agree thn we will debeat here
not on email ids...
sorry never ever i'm gona give my email here..
coz whn ever u get angree you will catch me
i know u sweet brother...
so its not a JOKE
i really hate islam
not Muslims
come and show me the right Path
and save me from hell fire...
if u r really agree thn come
We can contact wid Ali Contact to give us space to debeat on tht FFI website...
i'm really sorry bt i cant give u my email address..u know the reason...
may b u r sweet and loving person...bt still u r muslim so i cant give u my email ID.
Ali told me ths web is safe so i can post wat ever i wanna say..
DEAR Respected Ali Sina Plz convay my msg to Mr jamshid
copy and past and send him
u know the reasons i cant email...
coz still living in Pakistan
so lovly sir and Respect Mr Jamshed waitig for you
May the Love of Christ be wid you and ur family
now and forver
Ameen
I lenjoyed the article and
I lenjoyed the article and Ali Sina's reply to it very much, because they were so instructive. Ali Sina, his FFI-co-workers, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Brigitte Gabriel came out of Islamic countries and somehow embraced our cherished values, while in grave danger because of it. They started a logical, well argued, documented discussion about Islam, a religion, culture with totally different values, whose followers often look at us and our values and habits with disdain, contempt (Who forbid their daughters to marry us, for instance). This gave me very warm feelings of gratitude to Ali, Ayaan + the others and I read their texts every time and for hours. I defended them publicly which wasn't always easy. Once I shook the hand of Ayaan Hirsi Ali thanking her in public. She said she would do her best. Then the queue move on.
I read books of Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer, M. Scott Peck, Anthony Robbins + The Secret + The Teachings of Abraham and many such. To me they are the best books, but everybody is free to criticize-insult-blame them to their hearts content. And I will learn and improve my thoughts through these criticisms.
They teach me how important it is to focus on what we DO want, not on what we DON't want. I pondered on this. And I found that it is excellent what Ali Sina + the other apostates are doing now and they should continue to do it, and we can continue to enjoy it. These are excellent wake-up-calls, information, analysis, debates etc.
Only when it comes to our long-term goals, policies then I would like so much to ask: If we do not want Islam to have sway over people (and all that that brings with it) what is it we DO want?
It is not necessary to present an entirely new religion I suppose, but how about eventually democracy worldwide? Or an ever greater part of humans, including Muslims, under democratic rule? Democracy has 5 pillars; Constitutional State, Fair Elections, Free Speech, Autonomy of the Individual (+ equal rights for all), Separation of Church and State. I would like to add the Human Rights + the Golden rule to these. Let us make good plans to promote these practices being practised by governments and people in ever higher percentages.
Now Muslims claim that somehow governments and big companies from rich countries hugely exploit poor countries which then gives the poor people the right to migrate to the rich lands. But I think the rich countries are rich, at least for 95 %, because of a better system, or culture, or beliefsystems (not because of the origine of persons). I think it is a great achievement for societies to be broadly affluent.
I am so proud of Holland, being so attractive for immigrants! You know the other day there was a report from UK, Children Poverty Assessment or so, I can look at up. It stated after careful research in 10 different fields of enquiry that Dutch children are the happiest of all European children.
MUSLIMS WANT SEPARATE
MUSLIMS WANT SEPARATE HOSPITAL ROOMS FROM INFIDELS.
In my native -kerala state
In my native -kerala state ,India - Islamic(muslim) sorcery(blackmagic involving jinns etc) is considered as the most fatal brand of blackmagic.thats why I asked it here.I believe ,everyone must be aware of this thing(even if you are atheist).Demonic powers comes from the root of islam-the old pagan gods and goddess ancient arabia-Mesopotamia had.I believe Mr.Ali Sina Will be aware of this as well.
Thanks again.
#17 VIRGINS CAN BE
#17 VIRGINS CAN BE INSEMINATED LIKE THE PALESTINIAN OCTAMOM IN CALIFORNIA. YOU DONT NEED A MAN FOR A BABY JUST A SPERM DONOR. WHO NEEDS A CUP!
sperm donor who wears a cap,
sperm donor who wears a cap, preferably a skull cap you mean?????
Nusratali, freespirit, Marie
Nusratali, freespirit, Marie and any one interested to know about Upanishads, karma etc. Karma theory, simply put, is "you reap what you saw" as simple as that. God has given man full freedom. The essence of upanishads (there are 108 of them) and Vedas can be found in 'Bhagavad-Gita' the sacred scripture of Hidnus. You can access it in www.krishna.com. It is translated from Sanscrit to English with elaborate purpurt by His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder of ISKON. It is about 600 pages.
To know God, Soul, Creation, etc. from a Hindu point of view, please read 'All About Soul' (less than 100 pages) by Justice Madhavan Nair, retired High Court Jujdge, Kerala, India, in www.haindavakeralam.org. This one of the best books I have ever read. This site also contains knowledge about hinduism, (the name of hinduism is Sanatana Dharma). I expect your comments in this column after reading it. Thanks
Re: All About Soul,
Re: All About Soul, www.haindavakeralam.org Lefthand side Under the head 'HK Scribd Update" not only this but many other articles about Sanatana Dharma.
ProudChristian wrote:"As a
ProudChristian wrote:"As a result the West has produced some vibrant Christian philosophers such as Dr. William Lane Craig who has come forward to present Christianity as a rational faith and philosophically true"
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Wonder whats so rational of "a virgin giving birth to a child"? sounds like a oxymoron.
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Whats so rational to claim that a person who could not save himself from the cross would save me or the "humanity"? or that he died for my sins? My sins? are you kidding, I wasn't even born!!!
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My stupid beliefs are miracles, your stupid beliefs are stupidities!!!!
I wonder why the mother of
I wonder why the mother of Pandavas, Kunti is not worshipped? She also was a virgin when she gave birth to Karna???? This virgin birth nonsense has gone on far too long. Is it scientifically possible for a virgin to conceive and give birth???
The scientific answer is yes! That's called artificial insemination! We still need some one to blow in though. So may be joseph ahd this dangling problem and so they had to inseminate mary. So what's big deal?
#43 Typo at post 43 instead
#43
Typo at post 43
instead of “you reap what you saw”
it should read
“you reap what you SOW”.
Thank you Kaalan for giving
Thank you Kaalan for giving me a zist of Ved-Upnishads-Karma theory but still I have some small doubts. My cousin who is ex-muslim and now a fan of upnishadic and vedantic philosophy of life & universe says that every man's life is a religion unto him,and universe has one religion. He is a science professor so i dont follow many of his complex explanations like quantem-mechenism and dynamical dynamics and changing matrix of information & patterns and continuum of time in his explanation of Hinduism.
nusratali, pl read the books
nusratali, pl read the books I mentioned above. All About Soul in www.haindavakeralam and Bhagavad-Gita in www.krishna.com. When you finish reading you might want to read more; then go to www.sacred-tests.com and know more about Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) and other religions.
To Rationalist, thanks. It is you reap what you SOW.
Dear Mr Jamshid still waiting
Dear Mr Jamshid still waiting for you reply