Was Muhammad the Promised Final Prophet of the Torah and Gospels?
Submitted by M A Khan on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:09
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By M. A. Khan
Muslims claim that Muhammad was a prophet, whose coming was prophesied in Christian Gospels and the Jewish Torah. World-famous Sufi Muslim intellectual Fethullah Gulen, for example, says:
According to Islam, almost all previous prophets predicted Prophet Muhammad… Despite the distortions suffered by the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels, we find indications of his coming.
Indeed, Muhammad himself made the same claim to the Jews and Christians of Arabia saying:
I am the one whose coming Abraham prayed for and Jesus gave glad tidings of, and I resemble my forefather Abraham more than anyone else [Muttaqi al-Hindi, Kanz al-'Ummal, 11:384].
When he failed to convince them and they rejected him and his Islam—Allah, the God of Muhammad and Islam, ordered their persecution and annihilation; the Jews suffering their first Holocaust at Muhammad’s hand: he slaughtered en masse the men of Banu Quraiza, Banu Nadir (earlier evicted by Muhammad from Medina and resettled in Khaybar) and Banu Mustaliq tribes, and enslaved their women and children [my book, Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery, gives a concise overview of Muhammad's pogrom of the Jews]. The claim that Muhammad was the promised future prophet of the Jews and Christians is rooted in Allah's own claim in Quran 5:19
:
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them…
Connected to this prophetic succession is another Islamic claim that Muhammad was the "seal"—the finality—of prophethood [Quran 33:40]:
…he is the Messenger of God and the Seal of the prophets. And God is ever Knower of all things.
In other words, Muhammad was not only the Prophet, but also the final prophet, predicted in the Torah and Gospels. Is that true? Not at all! This will be proven in Allah’s own words! Before proceeding, let me briefly address a couple of troublesome issues with these verses. Gospels/New Testament says Jesus was the final Messiah: Allah’s claim in Quran verses 5:19 that Gospels predict the coming of a future prophet is a big lie, which Allah repeats in Quran 61:6
:
When Jesus, son of Mary, said: "O children of Israel! I am indeed a Messenger of God to you, confirming that which was [revealed] before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name is Ahmad [Muhammad]."
While the Torah predicts the coming of prophets, Gospels are very clear that Jesus was the final savior of the Jews, and by extension, of all Gentile nations. Those of the Jews, who embraced Jesus, would enter the "true House/Children of Israel", the Kingdom of God; because, the Old Israel had become defunct with Jesus’ promised coming. Those, who would reject Jesus, would be thrown out of the Kingdom of God, as he told the Jews: "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit" [Mat 21:43]. The overall theme of the New Testament is:
- Jesus was the promised prophet;
- With his coming, Judaism and God’s old Law in its entirety have become obsolete, of no value, whatsoever;
- Those, who embraced Jesus, would constitute the “True Israel”, the Old Israel had become defunct;
- Those, who embrace Jesus, would have guaranteed salvation by simply believing in Christ, without even requiring to follow any law.
Thus, in Christianity, Jesus was the finality in the God’s succession of prophethood; no future prophet would come, whatsoever. Therefore, Allah is wrong or ignorant to claim that Gospels mention the coming of a prophet. Muslims also claim that Jesus was a true prophet of their Allah. If that is so, then, 1) Islamic claim that another prophet would come is baseless; or 2) their claim of Jesus being a true prophet of Islam is a sham, a complete deception. No finality of prophetic succession in the Torah: The second problem with Muhammad's prophetic claim is that he was the final prophet. In the Torah, Moses prophesies the coming of prophets in Deu 18:15
:
"The lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers."
This verse spells no finality in the succession of prophethood whatsoever; prophets would continue coming whenever need arises throughout the existence of the Israelite nation; no end or finality is indicated in this verse.
Does Muhammad qualify to be a promised prophet of the Torah?
Was Muhammad’s claim to prophethood valid? Not at all, as we will see. Jesus also made the same claim, and Apostle Peter pointed to the same verse (i.e. Deu 18:15) in the New Testament (i.e. Act 3:22) to justify Jesus’ coming as a Messiah to the Jews. Malachi 3:1, which falls outside the Torah, also make a similar prophesy ("See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me..."), but the Gospel of Mark (1:2) attributes it somewhat wrongly to the 'Book of Isaiah'. However, Muhammad, an illiterate prophet, completely failed to point out which verse in the Torah prophesied his coming as a prophet. Allah tried on Muhammad's behalf, but erred big-time [Quran 2:129]:
(Abraham prayed): "Our Lord, raise up in their midst a Messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Your revelations, and teach them the Book and Wisdom, and purify them…"
It was not Abraham as claimed by Allah, but Moses—through whom the biblical God sent His first revelations—had prophesied the coming of prophets. However, to the fulfillment of this prophesy, numerous Israelites have come with the claim of prophethood to the Jewish people throughout history—both before Jesus and after—well into the modern era (Even John the Baptist, a Jew, who had baptized Jesus, is also shown as such a prophet in the Gospels). Those, who came before Jesus, mostly received acceptance; those that came after Jesus, when the Israelites were in dispersion all over the world, received only limited and localized following of varying degrees. Now let us see, who can qualify to be a prophet as predicted in Deu 18:15. God repeatedly says in the Old Testament that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac (Abraham’s son) and Jacob or Israel (Isaac’s son) [Exodus 3:15-16, 6:3 etc.]. When the Israelites in Egypt were oppressed by Pharaoh, "God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob” [Exodus 2:24]. And it was the children of Jacob (God later named him ‘Israel’), who ended up in Egypt, suffering Pharaoh’s oppressions. Moses, commanded by God, led them out of their Egyptian captivity and oppression. And God made His final covenant with those, who came out of Egypt with Moses—i.e. the children of Jacob/Israel. God says of this covenant: "I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusite—a land flowing with milk and honey” [Exodus 3:17]. God again makes it clear that His covenant is with the children of Jacob, when He told Moses: “This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob… if you obey me and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession” [Exodus 19:3-5]. Deu 18:15 clearly prophesies that God would choose a prophet "from among your brothers"—that is, from amongst those, who came out of Egypt under Moses’ leadership, namely the children of Jacob. In other words, God will choose prophets from amongst those, who carry the seed of Jacob as well as of his father Isaac and grandfather Abraham. The offspring of other children of Abraham and Isaac were not included in this final covenant of God. But Muhammad and the Arabs, it is claimed, descended from Abraham’s son Ishmael. Ishmael was Abraham’s son through his slave-woman Hagar, not through Sarai, a free woman and his properly married wife. Moreover, Hagar was an Egyptian, not a Semite. Therefore, Ishmael was only half-Semitic. Semitic purity was essential to be included in the God’s covenant. So, Ishmael and his offspring fell outside the God’s covenant. Indeed, God made this clear when he said to Abraham: "...it’s through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. I will make the son of the maidservant (i.e. Ishmael) into a nation also, because he is your offspring" [Genesis 21:12-13]. In other words, the offspring of Isaac would carry forward Abraham’s true legacy; Ishmael’s offspring, carrying the gene of a non-Semitic and slave woman, will also became a nation as they multiply, but would have no legitimate claim to Abraham’s true legacy. Therefore, Muhammad—an offspring of Ishmael, not carrying the seed of Isaac and Jacob—could, in no way, qualify to be a promised prophet of the Torah. Indeed, Muhammad's or Allah's training in the Torah, it seems, was not that bad. The duo knew of this basic requirement—i.e. the necessity of carrying the seed of Isaac and Jacob, in addition to Abraham’s—to become a prophet as prophesied in the Torah. Initially Allah said the same [Quran 45:16]
:And verily we gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favored them above (all) peoples.
Here, Allah clearly agrees and affirms two cardinal facts in agreement with Old Testament: first, the Children of Israel—i.e. the Children of Jacob—were blessed with right to Prophethood; second, God’s covenant was only with them amongst all nations. In the following verse, Allah made this central paradigm of the Torah succinctly clear:
We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation... [Quran 29:27]
This means, only those—carrying the seed of all three patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—can make a legitimate claim to prophethood. Allah had revealed these verses in the build to later verses (5:19, 61:6 etc.), which claim Muhammad's prophethood as promised in the Torah and Gospels. Verses 45:16 and 29:27—affirming facts of the Torah concerning the genealogical requirement for prophethood—were, it appears, intended to create a favorable and friendly impression upon the Jews (and Christians) about Muhammad, so that Allah's later claim that Muhammad was their promised prophet would be more acceptable to them. But the Jews, who had thorough knowledge of their scripture, had no difficulty to refute Muhammad’s claim to prophethood—given Muhammad, an Arab and the offspring of Ishmael, could not be a promised prophet. They probably had knowledge of Muhammad verses, and it seems that they point out the falsity of Muhammad’s prophetic claim by pointing to Allah’s own verses that say only the children of Jacob could become a promised prophet. Unaware of the Jews' depth of their scriptural knowledge, Allah initially spoke with honesty of the true requirement for prophethood without realizing that it would disqualify Muhammad’s claim to prophethood; Allah got caught red-handed in His own words. He obviously had no answer, except extreme embarrassment. All he could do to save his Godly credibility was to annihilate the Jews, to whom he got caught; this he eventually did by commanding Muhammad to put them to the sword. Next, to legitimize Muhammad’s claim to prophet, Allah embarked on an extraordinary mission to create a completely new foundational paradigm of his creed, altering all that He had been affirming in His verses until now. First, Allah hit-back at the Jews, accusing them of corrupting the Torah, which He had earlier recognized as containing "true guidance":
“Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn” [Quran 2:79].
Next, he had to create a totally new genealogy of prophetic requirement, so that Muhammad’s claim to prophethood becomes legitimate. Allah made Abraham a “true Muslim”, not Jew or Christian, so that Muhammad and his Muslim followers would become legitimate bearer of Abraham’s legacy, thus, justifying Muhammad’s claim to Abrahamic prophethood. So revealed Allah:
“Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam)...” [Quran 3:67].
Until now, Muhammad, following the Jews of Medina, was turning to Jerusalem while praying, where stood God’s original sanctuary, the Temple of Jerusalem. Now, he changed the sanctuary of the Lord from Jerusalem to the pagan temple of Ka’ba at Mecca (his home town), which he now claimed to have been built by Abraham and Ishmael (Thus, Ka’ba, not the Temple of Jerusalem, became the true House of God):
And remember Abraham and Isma’il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us... [Quran 2:127]
Next, Allah would include Ishmael also into the true legacy of Abraham (which is Islamic), which was carried forward not by his son Isaac alone, but all his sons:
And this was the legacy that Abraham left to (all) his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam." [Quran 2.132]
Next, Allah would include Ishmael (Isma’il), mentioning by name, in the God’s true covenant, which is Islamic:
Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).” [Quran 2:136]
Here, Allah claims Ishmael was also amongst those, whom He gave his religion, also received by Muhammad and his followers. As the final step of twisting facts to suit Muhammad’s claim to prophethood, and his religion as the true religion, Allah turned the entire foundation of the Abrahamic faith into an Islamic one. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, became true heir to Abraham’s legacy. So Allah reveals:
Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah?... [Quran 2.140]
Here, Allah questions the legitimacy of identifying all the patriarchs and the twelve tribes (i.e. Children of Israel) as “Jews or Christians”. Instead, Allah, who knows better, claims they were believers in Allah, and hence, in Allah’s true religion—Islam. They were, therefore, Muslims, not Jews or Christians, in truth. It’s interesting that even Muhammad and Allah failed to legitimize Muhammad’s claim to prophethood based on the Torah, and had to condemn it as corrupted, before perverting/rewriting all the Torah requirements for prophethood to create a completely new paradigm in the Quran to validate Muhammad’s legitimacy to prophethood; but renowned Canadian professor Jamal Badawi, trying to outdo Muhammad and Allah, outrageously tries to legitimize Muhammad's prophetic claim based on the Torah itself using all kinds of trickery.
Summary
While Islam claims that both Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesy the coming of Muhammad as a prophet, in Christianity Jesus was the final; no future prophet would come at all. The Torah prophesies the coming of prophets, but from amongst the Children of Jacob aka Israel only. Muhammad, allegedly Ishmael’s offspring, falling outside Jacob’s descendents/genealogy, could make no claim to prophethood, whatsoever. Islamic God initially admitted this fact, albeit unwittingly. When He later tried to push Muhammad as a promised prophet to the Jews (and Christians), he got caught in His own words and was well nigh embarrassed. Angered, Allah accused the Jews of corrupting the Torah, and later altered all His earlier pronouncements about the Torah-agreeable prophetic requirements to establish the validity of Muhammad’s claim to prophethood.
Conclusion
So, was Muhammad a promised prophet of the Jews and Christians? I leave it to readers to make their own judgment and draw conclusions accordingly.
(1 vote)
So, was Muhammad a promised
So, was Muhammad a promised prophet of the Jews and Christians?
It will be hilarious for muhammad, an ugly old wussy who could not control his sexual urges in sleeping with lil kids, cheating wives, breaking covenants and assassinating innocents to be called a sane man let alone be a represantative of God on Earth.
It is just that the world gone mad in having legitimized Islam as to be a respected religion and having people like Badawi rampaging all around the West yelling the insanity and all that stuff of this cult.
Hi friend M.A.Khan Please
Hi friend M.A.Khan
Please inform us; are you a Jew or a Christian or a Hindu so that we know your stake in the matter? If you are an Agnostic or an Atheist;why it bothers you whether Muhammad was mentioned in the Torah or not? Was Jesus mentioned by name in the Torah? Please quote such a verse.
All human beings are just like a family; all of them must be loved and none to be hated,with the advent of the Second Coming 1835-1908.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
LOL ***Unaware of the Jews’
LOL
***Unaware of the Jews’ depth of their scriptural knowledge, Allah initially spoke with honesty of the true requirement for prophethood without realizing that it would disqualify Muhammad’s claim to prophethood; Allah got caught red-handed in His own words. He obviously had no answer, except extreme embarrassment*** Ouch!
Then the compoulsary killing and hatred verses started.
Any muslim, what other possible reason that god order you to hate jew and put it in the book supposed to be a book of guidance for mankind and peace, there are other nations apart from jew who don't believe in mohammed's red lepricorn? even goat couldn't chew the whole lies, thats why its only partially ate, but you choose to swallow without even chew it first. You see it, but you don't understand, it is so obvious, but your mind is blind, how irony is one of the sura that says similar.
just like jesus said, mohammed is the false prophet that we need to watch out, his prayer is empty and rules with human 's rule
tHE NAME jESUS WAS NOT
tHE NAME jESUS WAS NOT MENTIONED IN THE ot, just that the new man was coming. Jesus came and started the new covenant. He was the ONE, not Muhammad who was not mentioned in the OT, except as a false prophet.
Muhammd was a sex prophet, who wanted Aisha when she was a baby in a blanket which allah showed him
Paarsay quote the verse in the Quran where it says love non-muslims. Quote the verses where slavery is forbidden. I can give your verses in the quran where blacks are cursed and whites are blessed and the Hadiths. Hadiths say Arabs are the best of all people. are you an Arab?
Final prophet or spawner of
Final prophet or spawner of hatred sent by SATAN ?
we need to spread truth about this religion everywhere as much as possible
hiye paarsurrey Was Jesus
hiye paarsurrey
Was Jesus mentioned by name in the Torah? Please quote such a verse
well that was you'r claim remeber Jesus is not a hebrew name it's a english name
Immanuel or Emmanuel or Imanu'el (Hebrew עִמָּנוּאֵל "God [is] with us" consists of two Hebrew words: אֵל (’El, meaning 'God') and עִמָּנוּ (ʻImmānū, meaning 'with us'); Standard Hebrew ʻImmanuʼel, Tiberian Hebrew ʻImmānûʼēl). It is a theophoric name used in the Bible in Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 8:8. It appears once in the Christian New Testament: in Matthew's quotation of Isaiah 7:14.
In Matthew "an angel of the Lord" appears to Mary's betrothed husband Joseph in a dream and tells him: "she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins". The text continues with the comment: "All this happened to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel, which being interpreted is God with us'".^ Matthew 1:23
Son of man
many people often say that Jesus tile or addresses son of Man and son of God. Son of man is refferred often to his human nature while the son of God is its divinty well if we look down to the root of Son of Man we find that its indeed one of divine affirmation that has been given to Jesus being the Son of God
Jesus some almost 92 time in the Gospels has address or title himself as Son of Man Jesus take out this title from Daniel 7:13 & 8:17
which are strong prophecies of coming messiah and it also inculde's it attributes
Daniel 7:13 (New International Version)
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Daniel 8
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. "Son of man," he said to me, "understand that the vision concerns the time of the end."
this son of man actually affirm more the divinity what Messiah is going to be and when Jesus call himself son of Man is relatively being mentally aware of the fact that he is messiah Jesus calling himself Son man is clear signal of His being conscious who is he?
titles like coming with the clouds of heaven
given authoirty and glory
soverign power
His dominoin is an ever lasting will not pass awy
his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed
well no human did ever had this all attributes
and no human ever lived for ever
there are almost 4 dozen plus prophecies to think that were fulfilled in Jesus
A college professor of mathematics and science named peter stoner want to determine what the odds were for any human being to fulfill any of these messianic prophecies so he and his student came up with very conservative estimate that likely hood of any human being certainly fulfilling any of these ancient prophecies they just ran the number and what the determine that the odds of any human being fulfilling any of these ancient prophecies would be one chance in trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion and they later ran out of number that now how much
No one can fulfill these prophecies see how vital important and precious these prophecies even A Jewish scholar commented that its mathematical impossible
I liked this article. It
I liked this article. It goes into the koran, once again, revealing that it is a fake. And then like any good fake prophet, they take the Bible and twist it so as to make themselves out to be whatever they want.
But, Jesus did indeed say that there will be someone like mohammed that will come after Him.
Matthew 7 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 You will be able to tell them by their fruits. Can people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, a sound tree produces good fruit but a rotten tree bad fruit.
18 A sound tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.
20 I repeat, you will be able to tell them by their fruits.
Matthew 24 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.
Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
Galatians 1:
8 - But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 - As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!
And this next one tells us of not to trust all the spirits. The so called 'angel' do that muhammad saw, denied Jesus and his divinity. On one hand Gabriel comes to Mary (see Arpheel's post) and says He will save people from their sins (which only God can do), and then something comes to mohammed and denies that Jesus can do such a thing. Which should tell us that the thing that came to mohammed wasn't an angel of the Lord, but the 'Prince of Lies', Satan. Also, Gabriel never behaved so poorly with anyone else by squeezing them and demanding they do something that they cannot do, such as read.
1 John 4
1 My dear friends, not every spirit is to be trusted, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets are at large in the world.
2 This is the proof of the spirit of God: any spirit which acknowledges Jesus Christ, come in human nature, is from God,
3 and no spirit which fails to acknowledge Jesus is from God; it is the spirit of Antichrist, whose coming you have heard of; he is already at large in the world.
"Muslims claim that Muhammad
"Muslims claim that Muhammad was a prophet, whose coming was prophesied in Christian Gospels and the Jewish Torah."
I say:
Then they turn around and claim the Bible is corrupt.
A little glitch in the
A little glitch in the article. 'Quran 5:19' should read as 'Quran 7:157'.
Thanks to Copper Kid for alerting.
Paarsurrey asked: "Hi friend
Paarsurrey asked:
"Hi friend M. A. Khan
Please inform us; are you a Jew or a Christian or a Hindu so that we know your stake in the matter? If you are an Agnostic or an Atheist;why it bothers you whether Muhammad was mentioned in the Torah or not? Was Jesus mentioned by name in the Torah? Please quote such a verse."
I am a former Muslim, now attached to no faith. I lived nearly 40 years of my life as a Muslim. I am examining what I was made to believe during those years: that Muhammad was a prophet, that the Quran is a revealed book from God and perfect guide of human life, etc.
@M A Khan You didn't answer
@M A Khan
You didn't answer Paarsurrey's question, " If you are an Agnostic or an Atheist, why it bothers you whether Muhammad was mentioned in the Torah or not? Was Jesus mentioned by name in the Torah? Please quote such a verse.”
@M A Khan You didn't answer
@M A Khan
You didn't answer Paarsurrey's question, "If you are an Agnostic or an Atheist, why it bothers you whether Muhammad was mentioned in the Torah or not? Was Jesus mentioned by name in the Torah? Please quote such a verse.”
Hey JAHanam, you are back
Hey JAHanam, you are back again, eh? Trashed many times but always come back. You asked:
"why it bothers you whether Muhammad was mentioned in the Torah or not?"
That's because muslim always claim it to seek legitimation, It was muslim who always talk about it. Mouth..mouth...mouth.. is all muslim can do. BTW your big mouth brothers always run when i asked them, hmmmm, maybe you can answer, thug? Don't run, thug.
Hey paasurrey, you still owe me answers! Do that first before pop out in another place.
@Moooodi You are a curse for
@Moooodi
You are a curse for the humanity. Your nick and language say it all. Are you ashamed of taking the names of your devotas as your nick?
Well..well...instead of
Well..well...instead of answering my question all you can do is that ,thug. Don't you know that my nick name taken from your own bastard prophet? Don't run, thug! Bah, typical dickhead muslim.
"You are a curse for the
"You are a curse for the humanity"
Hahahahahhaa.... Look at yourself and your cult. When reality comes mouth fades away. OK, thug?
You will be able to ask Jesus
You will be able to ask Jesus when he returns (if you are still alive)...
In addition to revealing that Jesus (pbuh) is still alive, the Qur'an reveals that he will return:
When an example is made of the son of Mary, your people laugh uproariously. They retort: "Who is better, then, our deities or him?" They only say this to you for argument's sake. They are indeed a disputatious people. He is only a servant upon whom We bestowed Our blessing and whom We made an example for the Children of Israel. If We willed, We could appoint angels in exchange for you to succeed you on Earth. (Qur'an, 43:57-60)
The next verse states that Jesus (pbuh) is a sign of the Day of Judgment:
He [Jesus] is a Sign of the Hour. Have no doubt about it, but follow Me. This is a straight path. (Qur'an, 43:61)
******************************************************
Jesus (pbuh) Was Taught the Book, the Torah, and the Gospel
The Qur'an mentions that Jesus (pbuh) was taught the Torah, the Gospel, and the Book:
When the angels said: "Mary, your Lord gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, of high esteem in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near. He will speak to people in the cradle and also when fully grown, and will be one of the righteous,' she exclaimed: "My Lord! How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?" He said: "It will be so. God creates whatever He wills. When He decides on something, He just says to it 'Be!,' and it is. He will teach him the Book and Wisdom, and the Torah, and the Gospel." (Qur'an, 3:45-48)
********************************************************
As Muslims we highly respect Jesus and Moses! Jesus on his return will confirm to you all who the last prophet was BUT I suppose the JEWS will still not believe...
Let me see - you claim that
Let me see - you claim that Jesus was a man, and then say He will return. How? While your man, mohammed, is nothing but a rotted corpse, Jesus body left earth. But, if you claim He is not God then how is a mere man going to just come back? And if you say it will be by allah's power - why would your god chose Jesus instead of mohammed to come back?
And then why would Jesus return and have anything to do with mohammed, islam, or anything associated with them? His message was the complete opposite.
While mohammed said to terrorize and kill if one didn't believe in him or his allah, Jesus said the opposite. Once again, the sermon on the Mount for another one who doesn't follow his own koran and read the Bible (surah 10:94, and 10:37).
The Beginning of the Sermon on the Mount Matthew Chapter 5:
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 and he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
The Beatitudes
Lk. 6.20-23
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Is. 61.2
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Ps. 37.11
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Is. 55.1, 2
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Ps. 24.4, 5
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: 1 Pet. 3.14 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 1 Pet. 4.14
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets 2 Chr. 36.16 · Acts 7.52 which were before you.
Not one of the above verses says to terrorize, kill, persecute, loot or deceive others.
Hihihiihihih. So Jesus (a
Hihihiihihih. So Jesus (a jew) is immortal and far superior than pedo muhammad (an arab) who was dead.
Hello JAH, I have answered
Hello JAH,
I have answered Paarsurrey's question. I have said that I'm investigating what I was told and made to believe for nearly 40 years of my life.
Probably you are kafir; so you failed to understand my answer. To make it plain: Muslims are universally taught, indeed it's in the Quran, that Muhammad's coming was promised in previous scriptures (Torah, Gospels).
This article is the outcome of my investigation of this Islamic claim that I believed for some four decades.
Hey, M A Khan Why did you
Hey, M A Khan Why did you answer this moron called JAHanam? When i asked muslim, they never answer but they like to force others to answer (double standard bullsh*t). Hey JAHanam, running again, thug? Well i'm not surprise a thug like you is running like rat.
@M A Khan I have read your
@M A Khan
I have read your previous answer to Paarsurrey where you have tacitly escaped his question. You did the same again. No matter what religious background you are from, it sounds like you are now a believer of Torah/Bible and yet masquerading as an ex-Muslim.
[...]
[...] http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/29/was-muhammad-the-promised-final-p...... [...]
Jesus did predict the comming
Jesus did predict the comming of the book called quran but of course HE(JESUS) put it in a parable. Please read properly Matthew 13:
The Parable of the Weeds
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
The good seed here is ofcourse the gospel the word of GOD(HE - JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD) which Jesus preached AND the weeds is clearly the quran which the enemies of GOD sow while the everyone was sleeping. The field is the world.
@M A Khan and Ali Sina Jesus
@M A Khan and Ali Sina
Jesus (i.e. Christian God) died for your sins and crimes that you have been committing against Islam and Muslims for years. He also died for the sins and crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, terrorists, and suicide bombers! He loves you all including Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, terrorists, and suicide bombers! :D
Jah, But Alla loves
Jah,
But Alla loves Mohammad, idi amin, Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, terrorists, , suicide bombers, rapists , looters ,Killers and Muslims. (ONLY) . He hates innocent people.
Well...well...JAHanam. Always
Well...well...JAHanam. Always come back but never answer. Is that all you can do, thug? Keep running, thug.
To Tuvong, Yes..yes.. always dodge using parables, how boring. Everyone can claim it. Prophecy must contains details and names, not unclear and multiinterpretation parables.
"Jesus (i.e. Christian God)
"Jesus (i.e. Christian God) died for your sins and crimes that you have been committing against Islam and Muslims for years."
Look at this narcissist moron. AS IF ISLAM NEVER COMMITED CRIMES. Clue: Look at your bastard prophet and his legacy. Muslim....muslim....always blame others but never themselves, how boring.
i fail to understand some
i fail to understand some christians on this site when they think that it was jesus that moses was referring to. Why dont they read the verse an judge that it is impossible for it to be jesus as jesus was noting like moses that even in the basic terms. An moses clearly says prophet but accordin the christians jesus wasnt a prophet. He is son of god. So the second you refer jesus to be a prophet than the whole christian religion is in vein as now ur callin him a prophet an not son of god. Do u get my drift?. Now even if jesus was the person moses was talkin about it was also jesus who mentions in the new testament that another comforter will come who will teach you all things as you cannot bear them now. He also goes further to mention in another verse. That i must go for if i dont go the comforter will not come. So obviously he is talkin about some one who will bring peace. Will arrive after him an someone who will teach things tat will be everlastin. There words are not my words or the words of john matthew or anyone else. It is the direct word of jesus. So who was jesus talkin about?. It is obvious to me that someone will arrive after jesus but who?
"i fail to understand some
"i fail to understand some christians on this site when they think that it was jesus that moses was referring to"
I too fail to understand muslims on this site when they think that it was bastard muhammad that jesus was referring to. Catch my drift? If you are deluded don't accuse someone else for being exactly like you, ok. Think first before saying anything.
"It is obvious to me that
"It is obvious to me that someone will arrive after jesus but who?"
Your opinion and assumption is your own business, christians don't think that comforter is "someone", ok.
MOOO: Look at the filth in
MOOO: Look at the filth in the language. I pity you. And the worst thing is that the moderator doesnt block it. I am pretty sure you talk to your mum like that. FILTHY. you call the muslims extreme yet it si from your own mouth that filth comes out.
MOO WROTE: I too fail to understand muslims on this site when they think that it was bastard muhammad that jesus was referring to
ANSWER: Yes we have our opinions and we are going in accordance with the exact saying of verse 18:18. Muslims can read the verse in its literal form. you lots just think it is jesus because he was given a divine revelation after moses. But it is your stupidity that you cannot see that you call him the son of god but moses was reffering to a prophet.
MOO WROTE: Your opinion and assumption is your own business, christians don’t think that comforter is “someone”, ok.
ANSWER: So you tell me what is it. Is it a unicorn, is it a spirit, is it light. Cause i fail yet to see what other creature in this world has spoken to the whole of makind via everlasting teachings. GO on give as a piece of your opnion, who is it.
Well... well ..complain about
Well... well ..complain about my language but never complain about your brothers. Hmmm, you are a true muslim indeed. Let's see what this big mouth say:
"But it is your stupidity that you cannot see that you call him the son of god but moses was reffering to a prophet."
Hahahahaha, when i said Jesus is son of god? You should check your eyes, maybe you got infection. Next time read with your eyes not your butt.
"Yes we have our opinions and we are going in accordance with the exact saying of verse 18:18. Muslims can read the verse in its literal form."
You can read all you want and assume all you like but without concrete proof, you are just a mouth. The worse part is you muslim always act arrogance and try to get legitimation from previous religion you copied.
"So you tell me what is it. Is it a unicorn, is it a spirit, is it light. Cause i fail yet to see what other creature in this world has spoken to the whole of makind via everlasting teachings. GO on give as a piece of your opnion, who is it."
Hmmmm, you should ask true christian about that. As far as i know the comforter is the holy spirit guarding the disciples of jesus and his followers so that their faith remains strong and ready to be martyred (killed without kill another, unlike some idiots that i know of). Don't tell me the comforter is bastard muhammad. The comforter uttered by jesus is a slave maker, a phedopile, an assassin, a wife beater, and a rapist?????? Hmmm, logic please.
MOOO why dont you show me
MOOO why dont you show me which muslim is using abusive words on this site. Please show me. The last muslim that wrote abusive words on a post, i told him can you stop posting meaningless comments where it isnt required. So maybe you shouldnt keep ali sina private parts in your ass hole and keep to the topic without using abusive words mate.
MOOO WROTE: Hahahahaha, when i said Jesus is son of god?
ANSWER: Did i say you said jesus is son of god or did i say christians see him as son of god. Read the post mate.
MOOO WROTE: As far as i know the comforter is the holy spirit guarding the disciples of jesus and his followers so that their faith remains strong and ready to be martyred
ANSWER: Did jesus say the comforter is a spirit. How can i spirit talk to all mankind. Have you heard of any spirits bringing a divine revelation that all manikind will hear of and read?
MOOO WROTE: Don’t tell me the comforter is bastard muhammad. The comforter uttered by jesus is a slave maker, a phedopile, an assassin, a wife beater, and a rapist?????? Hmmm, logic please.
ANSWER: HEre is just your stupidiness talking, you have probably never ever read the quran and your quoting things like this. Ali sinas private parts is just not in your ass hole but in your mouth as well.
LS *** An moses clearly says
LS
*** An moses clearly says prophet but accordin the christians jesus wasnt a prophet. He is son of god.***
proph•et n. 1. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.
So whats wrong with the son speaks on behalf of its father
You can start hallucinating, that comforter is some one riding the horse with sword in one hand and quran the other and ask you to chooce between the two.
But torah and gospel clearly say that the prophet not come from wherever the pedo mo descendant from. Why would you assuming pedo mo fits as comforter, he can not even be a figure, let alone comforter.
What kind of figure that pray with throbbing c*ck, remember ayesah little slut narration, that says water stain still visible on propfet dress while he is praying, from the cement that she washed. Which cave you were in
If jesus meant pedo mo, he would say some one who will bring feaces not peace
Ckk,ckkkk, ckkkk, Check the
Ckk,ckkkk, ckkkk, Check the fact first before typing anything ok. Muslim using insult is common practice, i don't need a liar like you to know about it - reality not theory. When i meant your brothers i was referring to all muslim who commit insult, terror, persecution, etc.
"Did i say you said jesus is son of god or did i say christians see him as son of god. Read the post mate."
Your eyes truly have infection. Read again your own words:
But it is your stupidity that you cannot see that you call him the son of god but moses was reffering to a prophet. Understand now? Go check your doctor about your eyes.
"Did jesus say the comforter is a spirit. How can i spirit talk to all mankind. Have you heard of any spirits bringing a divine revelation that all manikind will hear of and read?"
Did jesus said the comforter was a madman, a rapist, a phedopile, and an assassin? Read again my post. Holy spirit guarding the faith of jesus's disciples. It was them who talk to the world (the disciples). Have you heard or saw of any robotic angel bring down some revelation to a barbarian in a cave?
"HEre is just your stupidiness talking, you have probably never ever read the quran and your quoting things like this. Ali sinas private parts is just not in your ass hole but in your mouth as well."
Hey, stupid brainwashed. Muhammad the bastard was truly criminal like gengis kahn. Look at his followers and islamic countries now. Your useless theory is nothing to me. Stop mouthing and see reality, big mouth.
Every true muslim are stupid
Every true muslim are stupid arrogance bastard whose mouth need to be shut. I don't need ali sina to see what kind of animal a true muslim are. I knew it long ago.
If you don't have any
If you don't have any concrete proof, then muhammad the bastard mentioned in the bible is a cheap gossip uttered by desperate muslim looking for a legitimation. What's next? An ahmadi trying to tell that mirza ghulam ahmad was predicted in quran? How boring.
MOOO go on than smart ass,
MOOO go on than smart ass, tell us who is this person that moses and jesus is talking about. Tell us who soloman is talking about in his prophecy. Go on mate, enlighten me.
You are pathetic mate. my concrete proof is your bible. I dont need to be brain wahsed by anyone to know who jesus and moses is talking off.
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
As we know that muhammed is of the brethen of moses, he is like moses and he only said and did things that were said to him by jibrael. So mate according to the old testament Muhammed fulfills the criteria. Now lets look at the new testament.
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
As we know muhammed was illiterate. And when angel jibrel came to muhammed, what was the first thing he said to muhammed. He said Read. And what did muhammed say. I cannot read.
So he fulfills this criteria. Lets look at other verses.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
Comforter abide forever. Muhammed came after jesus and his teachings have been presented in its original form to this day. So it fulfills the criteria.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
He shall testify jesus. Well we all know muhammed testified to jesus. And he spoke only good words about jesus and the quran also has a chapter about jesus and the family of jesus. WOW. he fulfills this criteria.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
So to fulfill this criteria muhammed has to come after jesus has gone. And yes he did come after jesus went. So he fulfills this criteria. NEXT.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
Muhammed guided people to the truth of one god, from all the pagans of arabia, he never ever spoke of himself, he is mentioned only about 4 times in the quran, and he did glorify jesus and he did show people things to come, via his propecies and many more, such as different laws which was changed fro mthe old testament. So he fulfills this critiera.
So mate my concrete proof is the bible. These are jesus and moses words, not words or narrations from john or anyone. But jesus word. Now you tell me which person fulfills this critiera. From these verses from the testaments we know that it is a man. So who is it.
Jah, It is not necessary to
Jah,
It is not necessary to be a Jew or a Christian to ask and answer this question. You may be an atheist or an agnostic and be interrested by history of religion and theology.
Muhammad is not the promised Prophet of the Torah because Muhammad is not a Jew. That's all. Argue as much as you want . Any average learned atheist or agnostic ,interested by religion matters, knows that, as he knows that Cinderella was not a grandmother. Not necessary for him to believe in the fairy tale in question. Jah, your question to MA Khan is ........ (fill the blank)
Muhammad is not the promised prophet of the Gospel because the Gospel did not announced any prophet but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit. Christians knows how to interpret their Scriptures. They did not have to wait for Muhammad to answer , 600 years later, that it was........ him , an ex-polytheist arab. . .......! (fill the blank)
LS ***Did jesus say the
LS
***Did jesus say the comforter is a spirit. How can i spirit talk to all mankind. Have you heard of any spirits bringing a divine revelation that all manikind will hear of and read?***
every single non muslim being will understand when they want to do something moral related, there is "little man" inside you that speak divine and speak evil, these ones are absent in muslim, thats why muslim don't follow their hearts but followed their rotten brainwashed mind.
***my concrete proof is your bible. I dont need to be brain wahsed by anyone to know who jesus and moses is talking off.***
you don't proof anything out of bible, you just hallucinating when you read bible.
tell me how pedo mo related to children of israel, and tell me who is this false prophet jesus talking about according to you?
its a sad case that people
its a sad case that people dont rebuttal answers but just say things like period or thats that. You cant answer or you wish not to accept it thats why you say things like that. No where did moses or jesus say that the promised person had to be jew. An what religion do u think muhammed followed before islam. He followed the one true god even before prophethood just like jesus an moses. Do u really think i hallucinate. Are you stupid i have presented the verses in my last post directly from the bible. You just cant seem to accept it. If i am wrong prove to me that i am wrong
LS, You complain we don’t
LS,
You complain we don’t answer your questions. There is no questions in your previous comment. You interpret some quotes of the Torah and Gospel. Your interpretations are tortuous and illigitimate.. Jews and Christians knows best. Q : 10; 94.
Here is why :
Ismaël is the the son of Sarah’s Egyptian maid, Agar, and Abraham. Arabs are not Jews. Ask Palestinians. Muhammad is the offsping of this maid. He is not entitled to be a Prophet of Israël.
All Arabs were polytheists, Muhammad’s father was and Muhammad also was. He turned to Judaism, yes, but this does not bestow him, anyhow, the right to be a Prophet of Israël. Jews, the Chosen People, know best who are entitled. Ask them. Q : 10;94
Muhammad was a plunderer, a lustfull man and he “looked for temporal goods of this world” more than for the Hereafter. The Quran itself tell us this. Q: 67-69. Muhammad did not have what was required to be a Prophet of Israël.
Muhammad can not be the Holy Spirit for obvious reasons. He is not a Spirit. Christians knows best. Q : 10;94 Ask them.
London Spirit, EVEN IF you could “proove” that Jesus was not the announced Prophet of the Thora, this does not qualify anyhow Muhammad to be a Prophet of Israël for all the reasons above. All your stretchy and tortuous interpretations are irrelevant. If Jesus is not, Muhammad is, is an illigitimate conclusion.
I answered all the questions you did not ask for, above.
Jews’s and Christians’s answers are the solid and unshakable high steep of the Truth and all Mulims’s ratiocinations are useless, worthless. The Torah and the Gospel precede the Quran which is only, according to it, a “reminder.” It does not bring anything new. So Quran is of slight importance in regard to Yaweh’s Revelation made to Moses, the people of Israël and the Jews, and the Christians. Quran itself tells us this.
Muslims’s pretentions over Jews and Christians are laughable. Muslims are unable to rob them their religion and they fume like Muhammad did 1400 years ago. Islam is a false pretention, it is a attempt of fraud.
Anybody, faithfull Christian or faithfull Jew or not, atheist or agnostic, Hindu or Buddhist can clearly understand that Muhammad does not qualify to be a Prophet of Israël and that Muhammad is not the Holy Spirit. Muslims only can’t understand this because “Allah put a seal on their heart”. Q : 2; 7
If you have other questions, just ask me, I will be glad to enlighten you. There can be a guide for those who Allah rejects, contrary to what Quran says. Q: 7; 186
"You are pathetic mate. my
"You are pathetic mate. my concrete proof is your bible. I dont need to be brain wahsed by anyone to know who jesus and moses is talking off."
Pathetic bastard as usual. You can't even prove your bastard prophet is real or not and you dare to change other religion's meaning. Show me a name called pedo mo or arabian thug in the bible. Before you can prove this why don't you shut your pathetic mouth.
"As we know that muhammed is of the brethen of moses, he is like moses and he only said and did things that were said to him by jibrael. So mate according to the old testament Muhammed fulfills the criteria. Now lets look at the new testament."
Oh, really????? Why don't you prove it. What is the connection between moses and pedo mo???? Ismael???? Now...now.... Show me family trees from ismael to pedo mo. Let's see if you are just a mouth or not.
Jesus's version of heaven is
Jesus's version of heaven is very different from pedo mo's version. A spiritual man like jesus predicted a lustfull bastard like pedo mo? A copycat prophet who knows nothing but sex and power is a comforter. Disgusting conclusion as usual by brainwashed muslim. Prove first that pedo is a real prophet and then prove his legitimate connection with israel after that show me pedo mo's name and arabian factor in jesus's prediction.
Since when a cheap gossip like this become concrete proof. Do you want to change a dictionary?
Can't even prove their
Can't even prove their religion but their mouth is boasting as usual. What an arrogance bastard.
londonspirit I'm still
londonspirit I'm still waiting for your response to my last accusation.
If anyone is interested, the
If anyone is interested, the Quran states that Mary mother of Jesus is part of the trinity or rather there were three gods in the trinity:
Sura 5:73-74.
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
Sura 5:116:
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
These passages meant that Christians worshipped Mary as a god.
Muslim commentator al-Zamakhshari states:
The (word) three is the predicate to an understood subject. If one accepts the Christian view that God exists in one nature (jauhar) with three divine persons, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and (if one accept) the opinion that the person of the Father represents (God's) being (dhat), the person of the Son represents (his) knowledge ('ilm), and the person of the Holy Spirit represents (his) life (hayat), then one must supply the subject as follows: 'God is three(fold).' Otherwise, one must supply (the subject) thus: 'The gods are three.' ACCORDING TO THE EVIDENCE OF THE QUR'AN, the Christians maintain that God, Christ, and Mary are three gods, and that Christ is the child of God by Mary, AS GOD SAYS (in the Qur'an): ‘O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto men: "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"?’ (Sura 5:116), or: ‘The Christians say: "The Messiah is the Son of God"’ (Sura 9:30). Moreover, it is well known that the Christians maintain that in Jesus are (combined) a divine nature derived from the Father and a human nature derived from his mother… At the same time these words [Sura 4:171] exclude (the Christian view) that Jesus had with God the usual relationship between sons and (their) fathers… (Helmut Gätje, The Qur'an and its Exegesis [Oneworld Publications, 1996], pp. 126-127; bold, capital and underline emphasis and words within brackets ours)
What does the Concise Dictionary of Islam have to say about this:
In some cases the "material" which forms the substance of Quranic narrative, details of the creeds of Christianity and Judaism for example, does not correspond to those religion’s own understanding of their beliefs. This could be said, for example, of the notion of the Trinity found in the Quran, the story of Satan’s refusal to bow down to Adam, the Docetist view of the crucifixion, all of which can be traced to the dogmas of Gnostic sects, which are heretical in relationship to orthodox Christianity and Judaism. The Trinity "seen" in the Quran is not the Trinity of the Apostles Creed, or of the Nicene Creed.
What did the early Church Fathers say on the trinity:
Ignatius of Antioch
Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end; with your most admirable bishop, and the well-compacted spiritual crown of your presbytery, and the deacons who are according to God. Be ye subject to the bishop, and to one another, as Jesus Christ to the Father, according to the flesh, and the apostles to Christ, and to the Father, and to the Spirit; that so there may be a union both fleshly and spiritual.
Didache
After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water…. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Justin Martyr
We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.
Theophilus of Antioch
It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place.... The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity, God, his Word, and his Wisdom.
Irenaeus
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty ...and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit.
Quote from LS : “…It was
Quote from LS :
“…It was also jesus who mentions in the new testament that another comforter will come who will teach you all things as you cannot bear them now. He also goes further to mention in another verse. That i must go for if i dont go the comforter will not come. So obviously he is talkin about some one who will bring peace. Will arrive after him an someone who will teach things that will be everlasting. There words are not my words or the words of john matthew or anyone else. It is the direct word of jesus. So who was jesus talkin about?. It is obvious to me that someone will arrive after jesus but who?”
London Spirit, always give your references, please. “Anyone else” or “in another verse “ lacks of precision. You certainly don’t have a Gospell in front of you, LS. You certainly never read Gospel. Please, open a Gospell and read correctly Luke : 24; 49, John : 15; 26, John : 16; 13, John : 7 : 33. You did not read these quotes youself, LS. You are deceived by dishonest Muslims. Buy a Gospell and read it like we, unbelievers, bought the Quran and read it carefully. Please ! This will prevent you from saying stupidities.
London Spirit ! Jesus never said “someone who will bring peace” see John : 14; 26 The comforter, the helper, the Paraclete does not bring peace to the world. The Holy Spirit is a helper, a comforter, a helper who will help people understand more in depth Jesus’s teachings. Trinity is one of these. Grace is another one.
Between “….if iIdont go the comforter will not come.” and “So obviously he is talkin about some one who will bring peace.” There is absolutely no bound because the comforter has nothing to do with peace. This is a very astonishing affirmation.
So, you thought that the Comforter was a Prophet who will bring peace ? My dear LS, who told you this silly thing ?
LS, buy a Gospel and read it, otherwise you don’t know what you say.
You infer that Muhammad was the one who will bring peace ? Are you serious ? Look at Muslims around you. Shiites hates Sunnites, Sunnites and Shiites hate Ahmadeyas. Muslims hate every one who are not Muslims. Etc. Muslims kill each others. Sunnis put bombs in Mosques.Look at crowds of Muslims shouting : Behead this one or that one. Etc., Jesus never said “things that will be everlasting”. He already said everlasting things. Read John : 14; 25-26. the Paraclete will inspire believers so they can understand them more in depth. He will inspire them when they meet difficulties. All Christian theology is inpired by the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, then and now.
LS, inquire by YOURSELF, please, don’t let others deceive you. Don’t be another dishonest Muslim. Worship the truth everywhere and everytime. God, if he exists, is Trutht. Don’t complain we don’t answer your questions. If you have questions, ask them simply, clearly and we will answer. I will always answer a clear question. I will never slip away.
How can you argue with Christians if you never read Gospel and meditate it ? If you did read Gospel, your ignorance wonders me.
Claude: You infer that
Claude:
You infer that Muhammad was the one who will bring peace ? Are you serious ? Look at Muslims around you. Shiites hates Sunnites, Sunnites and Shiites hate Ahmadeyas. Muslims hate every one who are not Muslims. Etc. Muslims kill each others. Sunnis put bombs in Mosques.Look at crowds of Muslims shouting : Behead this one or that one. Etc., Jesus never said “things that will be everlasting”. He already said everlasting things. Read John : 14; 25-26. the Paraclete will inspire believers so they can understand them more in depth. He will inspire them when they meet difficulties. All Christian theology is inpired by the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, then and now.
I say:
Muhammed never brought peace and sources from the 7th and thereafter prove it:
Theophanes in entry for 629 wrote:In this year died Mouamed, the leader and false prophet of the Saracens, after appointing his kinsman Aboubacharos {to his cheiftainship. At the same time his repute spread abroad} and everyone was frightened. At the beginning of his advent the misguided Jews thought he was the Messiah who is awaited by them, so that some of their leaders joined him and accepted his religion while forsaking that of Moses, who saw God. Those who did so were ten in number, and they remained with him until his murder.* But when they saw him eating camel meat, they realized that he was not the one they thought him to be, and were at a loss what to do; being afraid to abjure his religion, those wretched ment aught him illicit things directed against us, Christians, and remained with him.
I consider it necessary to give an account of this man's origin. He was descended from a very widespread tribe, that of Ishmael, son of Abraham; for Nizaros, descendant of Ishamel, is recognized as the father of them all. He begot two sons, Moudaros and Raias. Moudaros begot Kourasos, Kaisos, Themimes, Asados, and toehrs unknown. All of them dwelt in the Midianite desert and kept cattle, themselves living in tents. There are also those farther away who are not of their tribe, but of that of lektan, the so-called Amanites, that is Homerites. And some of them traded on their camels. Being destitute and an orphan, the aforesaid Mouamed decided to enter the service of a rich woman who was a relative of his, called Chadiga, as a hired worker with a view to trading by camel in Egypt and Palestine. Little by little he became bolder and ingratiated himself with that woman, who was a widow, took her as a wife, and gained possession of her camels and her substance. Whenever he came to Palestine he consorted with Jews and Christians and sought from them certain scriptural matters. He was also afflicted with epilepsy. When his wife became aware of this, she was greatly distressed, inasmuch as she, a noblewoman, had married a man such as he, who was not only poor, but also an epileptic. He tried deceitfully to placate her by saying, "I keep seeing a vision of a certain angel called Gabriel, and being unable to bear his sight, I faint and fall down." Now, she had a certain monk living there, a friend of hers (who had been exiled for his depraved doctrine Arianism), and she related everything to him, including the angel's name. Wishing to satisfy her, he said to her, "He has spoken the truth, fot this is the angel who is sent to all the prophets." When she had heard the words of the false monk, she was the first to believe in Mouamed and proclaimed to other women of her tribe that he was a prophet. Thus, the report spread from women to men, and first to Aboubacharos, whom he left as his successor. This heresy prevailed in the region of Ethribos, in the last resort by war: at first secretly, for ten years, and by war another ten, and openly nine. He taught his subjects that he who kills an enemy or is killed by an enemy goes to Paradise; and he said that this paradise was one of carnal eating and drinking and intercourse with women, and had a river of wine, honey, and milk, and that they women were not like the ones down here, but different ones, and that the intercourse was long-lasting and the pleasure continuous; and other things full of profligacy and stupidity; also that men should feel sympathy for one another and help those who are wronged.
Theophanes in entry for 630 wrote:Mouamed, who had died earlier, had appointed four emirs to fight those members of the Arab nation who were Christian, and they came in front of a billage called Mouchea, in which was stationed the vicarius Theodore, intending to fall upon the Arabs on the day when they sacrificed to their idols. The vicarius, on learning this from a certain Koraishite called Koutabas, who was in his pay, gathered all the soldiers of the desert guard and, after ascertaining from the Saracan the day and hour when they were intending to attack, himself attacked them at a village called Mothous, and killed three emirs and the bulk of their army. On emir, called Chaled, whom they call God's Sword, escaped. Now some of the neighbouring Arabs were receiving small payments from the emperors for guarding the approaches to the desert. At that time a certain eunuch arrived to distribute the wages according to custom, the eunuch drove them away, saying "The emperor can barely pary his soldiers their wages, much less these dogs!" Distressed by this, the Arabs went over to their fellow-tribesmen, and itwas they that led them to the rich country of Gaza, which is the gateway to the desert in the direction of Mount Sinai.
Venerable Bede (673-735). The Ecclesiastical History of the English People. Transl. Roger Collins and Judith McClure. Oxford: Oxford World's Classics series, 1999.
Book 5 chapter 23 wrote:In the year of our Lord 729 two comets appeared around the sun, striking great terror into all beholders. One of them preceded the sun as it rose in the morning and the other followed it as it set at night, seeming to portend dire disaster to east and west alike. One comet was the forerunner of the day and the other of the night, to indicate that mankind was threatened by calamities both by day and by night. They had fiery torch-like trains which faced northwards as if poised to start a fire. They appeared in the month of January and remained for almost a fortnight. At this time a terrible plague of Saracens ravaged Gaull with cruel bloodshed and not long afterwards they received the due reward of their treachery in the same kingdom.*
*Probably only one comet, approaching and then drawing away from the sun. No Arab attacks on Gaul are recorded for 729. Bede, who was best informed about events in the Rhone valley, may be reporting the raid of 725, which penetrated as far north as Autun, or he may be thinking of teh very first Arab raid, back in 721. The only events this can refer to are the defeat of the first Arab attack on Gaul at Toulouse in 721 ("not long afterwards") or that of another Arab raid at the battle of Poitiers in Oct. (? ) of 732 or 733. If it were the latter, this would represent a late revision or posthumous editorial addition to the text of Book V. Bede's lack of contemporary information about Arab attacks on Gaul is also apparent in the Chronicle.
Einhard (770-840). "Life of Charles the Great". Trans. Samuel Epes Turner. In Readings in Medieval History: vol. 1: the early middle ages. 3rd ed. Ed. Patrick Geary. Broadview Press, 2003. p. 282-296.
Chapter 2 wrote:At the time of Childeric's disposition, Pepin, the father of King Charles, held this office of Mayor of the Palace, one might almost say, by hereditary right; for Pepin's father, Charles, had received it at the hands of his father, Pepin, and filled it with distinction. It was this Charles that crushed the tyrants who claimed to rule the whole Frank land as their own, and that utterly routed the Saracens, when they attempted the conquest of Gaul, in two great battles - one in Aquitania, near the town of Poitiers, and the other on the River Berre, near Narbonne - and compelled them to return to Spain. This honor was usually conferred by the people only upon men eminent from their illustrious birth and ample wealth.
Source: Islamic and Christian Spain in the Early Middle Ages. "Introduction". p. 13-14. At Libro. Click on Author catalog.
Pages 13-14 wrote:Spain is meant herein as a geographical term, defining the territory presently occupied by the Spanish state. Referring to all the medieval Christian territories together, I prefer to allude to the "Christian kingdoms," or to specific ones. In the high middle ages, Arab writers referred to all territory south of the Duero (and later any Iberian territory held by Muslims) as al-Andalus, whereas Spain (Isbaniyya) referred to the peninsula at a geographic entity. Regions to the north of the Duero were sometimes lumped together as Qashtalla (Castile) or defined more specifically. Those regions of the Upper Ebro Valley and Old Castile where summer raids were made were called Alaba wa'l-Qilâ' ("Alava and the Castles"); or reference was made to Jilliqiya (Galicia) or Banbalûna (meaning either Pamplona or Navarre, in any case the homeland of the Basques -- al-Bashkûnish). For the Christians, on the other hand, Spain (Spania) was more of a cultural concept, defining broadly the area which had fallen within the Visigothic sphere of influence, sometimes even including the region of Narbonne, on the northern side of the Pyrenees. According to Castro, the Romance form España was first used by those living in Septimania and Provence to refer to Muslim-held territory, the origin of refugees (Hispani) seeking a home in Carolingian lands.
The term universally used by Arabic-speakers for those lands under Islamic control was al-Andalus. The origin of this term has confounded philologists and historians for years and there is no conclusive explanation to date. It has generally been supposed to relate to the Vandals, who passed through the peninsula in the fifth century on their way to North Africa. Thus it is puzzling why the Arabs should have named their lberian Province after people who no longer lived there. One conjecture is that Berbers of North African regions adjacent to the peninsula may still, in the early eighth century, have referred to it as the "land of the Vandals," a hypothetical zamurz Wandalus or tamurt Wandalus. Since many Berber nouns have genitives with a prefixed w-, the Arabs would have translated this as bilad al-Andalus, "land of the Andals." Another theory, less contrived, ascribes the name to a mythical Atlantis, which later Arab geographical writers tried to relate to the Atlantic Ocean. The term al-Andalus appears as early as 716 in bilingual coins, as the translation of Spania.
By the way I copy and pasted this stuff from a discussion started by Ibn Rushd on the forums.