submission now vs FFI Staff
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PDF versionFrom: submission now Date: Sep 3, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: PEACE
Peace be upon those who follow true guidance,
In the Name of God, I am so amazed at the extreme hatred and anger displayed through your site, it really shows that you are very close to accepting Islam. It is not possible to hate something as much as you do by spreading your overshelming lies unless you fear it.
Try getting up one morning and pray for God to clean your evil heart, your site promotes lies, terrorism, hatred, racism, lies, nudity and many other terrible things. Is this the life you are working towards for our children, do you think your site offers peace and harmony to mankind?
Besides all your information being extremely poorly done, I am amazed at the opposite effect it has had, so many people have converted to Islam from sites of hate like yours. You see, when a person sees extreme hatred from one to another, they automatically block out the authenticity from the hater (you) and have a deep look from neutral sources thus leading them to the true religion of God (Islam) which I converted to like millions of others.
Do you feel a fire burning in your heart as you watch Islam rated as the fatest growing religion on Earth ? It is obvious that if your site had any truth in it, surely people like myself and the millions daily would not embrace it and find complete peace and harmony in it.
Tell me, why is Islam the fastest growing religion on earth? Do you think that maybe they see something that you don't ?? Take some time and reflect before your hatred destroys you.To: submission now
Date: Sep 3, 2006 9:45 PM
On 9/3/06, submission now wrote:
Peace be upon those who follow true guidance,
Certainly. Peace be upon not only those who follow true guidance but upon the whole of mankind. And in that exclusion of those who you do not consider truly guided you show the lack of love and empathy for non-muslims in Islam.
In the Name of God, I am so amazed at the extreme hatred and anger displayed through your site, it really shows that you are very close to accepting Islam. It is not possible to hate something as much as you do by spreading your overshelming lies unless you fear it.
It is sad that you see hate at FFI for that must mean there is some hate within you that is being reflected in your mind. FFI is exposing Islam and telling the truth about Islam out of deep love for the muslims and in the attempt to save as many muslims from the head long destruction and violence that many mullahs are determined to lead the overwhelming number of innocent
muslims.
Try getting up one morning and pray for God to clean your evil heart, your site promotes lies, terrorism, hatred, racism, lies, nudity and many other terrible things. Is this the life you are working towards for our children, do you think your site offers peace and harmony to mankind?
How does it do that? Can you please tell any lie or any fabrication that Ali Sina has made about Islam? Ali Sina has promised to shut the site down if he can be proven wrong. His challenge is there for any muslim to take on and meet. Why do you not do that and stop all the hate you see at FFI? That is the minimum you can do if you really think Ali is spreading hate by lying. It is Islam that spreads the hate for the non-muslims. Look at your opening benediction and how you thoughtlessly excludes those not rightly guided, that is non-muslims, from your prayer of peace. That is what is real spreading of hate.
Besides all your information being extremely poorly done, I am amazed at the opposite effect it has had, so many people have converted to Islam from sites of hate like yours. You see, when a person sees extreme hatred from one to another, they automatically block out the authenticity from the hater (you) and have a deep look from neutral sources thus leading them to the true religion of God (Islam) which I converted to like millions of others.
Well then you should be thanking Ali Sina as a muslim. It is merely another way of sending people to Islam is it not according to you? Millions of others and all by yourself? Wow. Amazing.
Do you feel a fire burning in your heart as you watch Islam rated as the fatest growing religion on Earth ? It is obvious that if your site had any truth in it, surely people like myself and the millions daily would not embrace it and find complete peace and harmony in it.
Why would I feel fire burning in my heart? Truth is what it is. Ex-muslims are the fastest growing group. If you really believe that muslims are the fastest group and you have converted millions all by yourself, and that we have actually driven converts to you, why trouble yourself by a few apostates at FFI who are not rightly guided by islam?
Tell me, why is Islam the fastest growing religion on earth? Do you think that maybe they see something that you don't ?? Take some time and reflect before your hatred destroys you.
I hope FFI has never shown hatred towards any human. I am sure that members of FFI do hate the ideology of Islam, just as they hate the ideology of Nazism and Communism.I hope a ray of reason and rationality shines through to you and you awake from the evil of islam you are trapped in. I am here to answer any questions you may have and so feel free to ask any and I hope I can be of help to you.
May peace and harmony be for all mankind, muslims and kaffirs alike.
regards,
Doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 3, 2006 10:04 PM
Certainly. Peace be upon not only those who follow true guidance but upon the whole of mankind. And in that exclusion of those who you do not consider truly guided you show the lack of love and empathy for non-muslims in Islam.
I do not wish peace upon unjust terrorists who strive to cause terror, so I don’t agree with you on that point, nor do I wish peace upon criminals who have no remorce.
It is sad that you see hate at FFI for that must mean there is some hate within you that is being reflected in your mind.
Why, do you see peace in the horror you display? Do you see peace in the terror you promote ?
FFI is exposing Islam and telling the truth about Islam out of deep love for the muslims and in the attempt to save as many muslims from the head long destruction and violence that many mullahs are determined to lead the overwhelming number of innocent muslims.
With this in mind, can you please explain the Golden Ages of Islam which ruled for hundreds of years in complete peace and harmony and is found no where else ? Can you explain why so many converts come to Islam who are highly educated?
How does it do that? Can you please tell any lie or any fabrication that Ali Sina has made about Islam?
Are you telling me you can’t see any? I will start with a quick one for you, it is promoted in the majority of Islams teachings to be good to your fellow human, that religion is not allowed to be forced, to pray and give charity and mainly, to unite on good and forbid evil. Ali constantly refers to Islam as a preacher of hate and murder, you think he is a man of peace?
Ali Sina has promised to shut the site down if he can be proven wrong. His challenge is there for any muslim to take on and meet. Why do you not do that and stop all the hate you see at FFI?
I am happy to challenge his lies in public, open it up for me if it’s possible.
That is the minimum you can do if you really think Ali is spreading hate by lying. It is Islam that spreads the hate for the non-muslims. Look at your opening benediction and how you thoughtlessly excludes those not rightly guided, that is non-muslims, from your prayer of peace. That is
what is real spreading of hate.
We do not wish peace upon the enemies of peace, that is Justice, can you prove otherwise? However, if they reframe from causing terror, we welcome them to have peace. Does the law permit peace on a criminal? It offers him a punishment doesn’t it?
Well then you should be thanking Ali Sina as a muslim. It is merely another way of sending people to Islam is it not according to you? Millions of others and all by yourself? Wow. Amazing.
I would have had it not been an obligation for me to spread the truth, he is a man falsely spreading hatred on a nation of millions.
Why would I feel fire burning in my heart? Truth is what it is. Ex-muslims are the fastest growing group. If you really believe that muslims are the fastest group and you have converted millions all by yourself, and that we have actually driven converts to you, why trouble yourself by a few apostates at FFI who are not rightly guided by islam?
Tell me, why is Islam the fastest growing religion on earth? Do you think that maybe they see something that you don't ?? Take some time and reflect before your hatred destroys you.
May peace and harmony be for all mankind, muslims and kaffirs alike.
You are on falsehood, I challenge him to an open forum, just me and him and all to watch.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 3, 2006 11:11 PM
I hope a ray of reason and rationality shines through to you and you awake from the evil of islam you are trapped in. I am here to answer any questions you may have and so feel free to ask any and I hope I can be of help to you.
Start with my 2 simple questions, is Islam a threat to Good, or a threat to evil? Why did Islam have 800 years of Golden Ages when they lived by the laws of Islam, during that time, they lived at peace with Christians and Jews alike, there were rarely any court cases or punishments due to the complete harmony and peace at hand.
Can you explain how this took place if Islam is as you claim, a religion of Terror and murder......I am waiting. Thanks
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 10:20 AM
I do not wish peace upon unjust terrorists who strive to cause terror, so I don't agree with you on that point, nor do I wish peace upon criminals who have no remorce.
Do you wish peace upon those who reject Allah and his rasul, but believe in their own gods and dieties?
Why, do you see peace in the horror you display? Do you see peace in the terror you promote ?
What horror are you talking about? We only show what humans do in the name of their Allah. What terror are we promoting? It is Islam that has the death penalty for apostates, it is islam that has Allah commanding to kill and smite. Where has FFI recommended harming a single human? Simply telling what the quran says and what the 7th century immoral beduoin sheikh did is promoting terror? Can you explain that?
With this in mind, can you please explain the Golden Ages of Islam which ruled for hundreds of years in complete peace and harmony and is found no where else ? Can you explain why so many converts come to Islam who are highly educated?
What Golden Agess of Islam? What peace and harmony? Here is a summary of Islamic history through the ages: show where is peace and harmony?
Brief History of Islam
Are you telling me you can't see any? I will start with a quick one for you, it is promoted in the majority of Islams teachings to be good to your fellow human, that religion is not allowed to be forced, to pray and give charity and mainly, to unite on good and forbid evil. Ali constantly refers to Islam as a preacher of hate and murder, you think he is a man of peace?
If religion is not to be forced upon then why are apostates put to death and why is there a death penalty for apostacy? Ex-muslims are very interested in that you know. It is how Islam treats the non-muslims that the real face of Islam shows up for humanity. You can see how muslims behave when they consider the other a kaafir. Sunni sheikhs declared shias kaafirs and sunnis have been killing shias in pakistan, afghansitan, iraq, saudi arabia etc. Shias consider sunnis to be heretics and they have been killing sunnis in iran, iraq, lebanon, etc. And we do not even consider how the shias and the sunnis treat the Bahais or the Ahmediyyas or the christians or the hindus.
I am happy to challenge his lies in public, open it up for me if it's possible.
You can become a member of the FFI forum and post anything you like. If you arequalified to debate with Ali , please do so and your debate will be published in toto and unaltered among all the other debates. It is opened for you or for any other muslim who can actually say something instead of the excuse that they will have to consult a scholar of islam and get back and then are never heard of again.
We do not wish peace upon the enemies of peace, that is Justice, can you prove otherwise? However, if they reframe from causing terror, we welcome them to have peace. Does the law permit peace on a criminal? It offers him a punishment doesn't it?
Are hindus promoting terror? Are christians promoting terror? Are the native american spirit worshippers promoting terror? Are the buddhists promoting terror? Do you wish peace upon all those humans who have heard of Allah and Muhammed but still reject them and want to practice
their own ancestral religion? Or are you like many imams and mullahs equate rejection of Allah and Muhammed as a crime that deserves punishment? Is rejection of Allah and Muhammed a crime in your eyes?
I would have had it not been an obligation for me to spread the truth, he is a man falsely spreading hatred on a nation of millions.
You are sorely mistaken. Ali Sina does not spread hate. Ali Sina is dousing the fire of hate that Islam ignites in humanity.
Do you feel a fire burning in your heart as you watch Islam rated as the fatest growing religion on Earth ? It is obvious that if your site had any truth in it, surely people like myself and the millions daily would not embrace it and find complete peace and harmony in it.
But many many do. And hopefully one day so will you.
You are on falsehood, I challenge him to an open forum, just me and him and all to watch.
You are most welcome to debate Ali Sina anytime. The forum is open and so is the email exchange. Any debate will be published unaltered and unmodified just as this email exchange will eventually get published at FFI. Everyone will be free to read and judge for themselves.
regards,
Doubtless.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 10:31 AM
Start with my 2 simple questions, is Islam a threat to Good, or a threat to evil? Why did Islam have 800 years of Golden Ages when they lived by the laws of Islam, during that time, they lived at peace with Christians and Jews alike, there were rarely any court cases or punishments due to the complete harmony and peace at hand.
Can you explain how this took place if Islam is as you claim, a religion of Terror and murder......I am waiting. Thanks
I have given you links to a summary of the Islamic history in the previous email. You pick the 800 year period you are talking about and then we will look at what rights the non-muslims had and how they were implemented. How were the kaafirs treated during those 800 years, and what was
happening to the slave trade out of Africa during those 800 years? You tell me the years and then we will start looking at that history in detail, and not the myths that muslims tell each other about it.
I do not know what you mean by "good" and "evil". Islam is arab imperialism and an arab expansionist ideology. It is a threat to any native language and culture other than that of the arabs. It has already destroyed many many cultures and languages and imposed arabic and arab desert culture in its
stead. It is a catastrophe for those who do not want to be muslims or want to accept Islam. It has been horrific for the hindus of india and bengal. It has been a total and unmitigated disaster for the zorastrians of Iran. It has been nothing but killing and evil for the christians of the middle east.
And I do not even bring the jews up here because the hatred for the jews holds a special place in islam and its quran.
regards,
doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 1:28 PM
I have given you links to a summary of the Islamic history in the previous email.
You pick the 800 year period.... It has been nothing but killing and evil for the christians of the middle east. And I do not even bring the jews up here because the hatred for the jews holds a special place in islam and its quran.
From your responce here, it seems we don't need to go much further, it actually explains itself. firstly have a look at yourself. I hope you can reflect. I will start with a very simple point which clearly shows your hatered, hypocricy and terror, 1. "and not the myths that muslims tell each other about"
Just beginning with this simple comment, why don't you try and explain it in more detail, how about you show me the good Islam brang, lets start there. This will show a clear indication of your intent.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 1:42 PM
I will start with the following
"What horror are you talking about? We only show what humans do in the name of their Allah. What terror are we promoting? It is Islam that has the death penalty for apostates, it is islam that has Allah commanding to kill and smite. Where has FFI recommended harming a single human?
Simply telling what the quran says and what the 7th century immoral beduoin sheikh did is promoting terror? Can you explain that?"
The horror you display is very simple, I am not sure if you are denying it purposely or ignorantly however I will reveal it as follows, You say " It is Islam that has the death penalty for apostates" Many countries today have the death penalty for treason which is the Islamic law you refer to.
"it is islam that has Allah commanding to kill and smite." This is found in many places in the OT.
As to the rest of your terrorist ideoligy it falls into the following:
Your website tries to proclaim that Islam is terror and is spread by force, however, at the same time, you don't tolerate anything other than your own belief and hope to enforce it on others, this is your first sign of being a hypocrite.
You also claim that Christianity teaches one to be good to their neighbours, give charity and so on, and have denied that this teaching is found in Islam, another clear manipulation of the truth.
There is much more proof from your website that your way of life is the greates threat to peace, you are full of hatred, lies and manipulate the truth to try and support your ideolagy.
I will make it simple for you, does Islam teach one to be kind to his neighbours ? Does it teach one to give to the poor ? This is denied by Mr Ali, do you also deny this ?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 2:17 PM
What are you talking about? I have sent you a summary of the Islamic history and I understand it comes from Islamic sites. Now you want to talk about 800 year period of Golden history. And I have asked you to see that and tell which 800 year period you want to talk about. The myth that I am referring to is
the myth that Islamic rule was very tolerant towards the non-muslims. There is no doubt that the jews escaped from the Catholic rule in Spain to seek shelter in the hills of Turkey and the status of dhimma under the Ottomans, but to call that a tolerant and good for the jews is a myth. The status of the christians and the jews under Islam in Spain was less than a second class citizen and their treatment is no recommendation for Islamic rule. And yes many muslims do lie about the status and life of a dhimmi under islamic rule. So I do not know what you are talking about. What hypocrisy, hatred, and terror are you talking about? I have been forthright and clear.
So please be explicit and state what you want the readers to know.
regards,
doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 3:02 PM
There is no doubt that the jews escaped from the Catholic rule in Spain to seek shelter in the hills of Turkey and the status of dhimma under the Ottomans
Why do you avoid the word Islam and use hills and ottomans ??? Your have been moulded into a liar and decieter, cant you see it ?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 4:23 PM
Once again, what the heck are you talking about? They did not flee to seek the shelter of the Persians or the muslims in India. Or are you claiming that the Ottomans ruled all of the muslims in the world at that time in history? What does the status dhimma imply? I am not aware if anyone other than muslims
imposed the status of dhimma. Ottomans were sultans who appropriated the title of Calipha. So you want to use the word Islam to cover Ottomans be my guest. How am I lying and deceiving? By stating facts clearly? Go ahead, I am still waiting for your specifiying the 800 years Golden period of Islam.
Will you please state it, so we can look at your claims?
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:13 PM
what the heck are you talking about? What does heck mean ? Have you passed year 12?
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:16 PM
I have noticed one thing in particular about Ali Sina, his charges are according to his own law. You see, if we want to charge someone today with a crime according to the so called democracy, a law must exist which can than be used and applied, if this law does not exist, there is no charge.
Ali Sina has made allegation and charges that are based on his law, however, he is not a government or judge, this is hypocracy at the highest level. An example is, he claims Muhammad Allayhe Asalaatu Wasalaam, molestered a child.
If you bring his claim to court, can he win? In court today, does the Judge apply laws from other centuries or does he apply laws which exist currenty? Obviously he applies current laws. Therefore, according to this, to charge Muhammad Allayhe Asalaatu Wasalaam we would need to apply this (God forbid,
I am not going to say it is permissable to accuse him of such a thing Allayhe Asalaatu Wasalaam), we find in his time, his marriage was accepted and normal, he did not break any law and was not presented with any retaliation from his followers or enemies about the marriage.
Therefore, he is guilty according to Ali Sinner and not according to any acceptable method of charge.
This simple rule will make all Ali Sinners claims invalid. For someone to be charged, the law must be established and implemented at the time of the crime. It must also be recognised by the people of the time as a crime.
If I women enjoys her husband yelling at her, and decades later there is a law which forbids yelling, the husbad decades back does not become a criminal for pleasing his wife at the time.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:22 PM
From the Merriam Webster online dictionary:
Main Entry: heck
Pronunciation: 'hek
Function: noun
Etymology: euphemism
1 : HELL 2 (all heck breaks loose)
2 : HELL 4 (a heck of a lot of money)
Hope that helps.
It would be nice if you could specify the 800 years of the Golden Rule of islam that you were mentioning so the eventual readers will know.
regards,
doubtless
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:24 PM
1. (used as a mild expression of annoyance, rejection, disgust, etc.): What the heck do you care?
I meant, as you did not understand, look at your speech. It is appauling.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:29 PM
Muhammed is no ordinary man according to muslims. Now is he? He is the one that the Quran says is of an exemplary character and a mercy to all creation. His sunnah is the basis of all muslim law. He is Allah's prophet for all mankind and for all time. Given such a lofty status, you want to have mankind
judge Muhammed just as a 7th century Beduoin. Okay. Let us do that. Where did Ali charge him with a crime? Ali charged him with pedophilia, of desiring and having sex with a child. Pedophilia is pedophilia whether it is in the 7th century or in the 21st, is it not. According to you pedophilia was acceptable in the 7th century, but most of humanity in the 21st century considers it barbaric except the muslim sharia which still considers the example set by Muhammed in the 7th century as the guiding principle of morality. So you agree that Muhammed was a pedophile in the 7th century?
regards,
Doubtles
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 6:35 PM
If you do not even like a "mild expression" of annoyance and find it appalling, then I apologise for it right away. I was not using it to express annoyance but more in the sense of quizzical and befuddlement because I really did not understand what you were talking about. Heck is not considered a bad word in
the hick circles I move in apparently.
doubtless
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: PEACE
Let me clarify, if a Law is set and remains for decades than it always remains there to charge someone, however, if the law is abolished, it can no longer charge anyone, do you understand this concept?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 8:16 PM
Please be explicit. What are you saying? I do not understand riddles. Which law was abolished? Which law are referring to? Ali is not using any Law to charge Muhammed. Ali is simply stating a fact that Muhammed asked the father of a six year old to marry her and used his position as a prophet to override
the objections of the father. He had sex with a nine year old. That is what muslim historians report. That is pedophelia.
Whether that is a crime or whether that is immoral or whether it is admirable or despicable is an entirely different matter. Many Saudis, Iranian, Pakistani Sheiks, Imams, Muftis and other Islamic lumenaries still have pree teen wives as they emulate the behavior of their prophet. Most nations in the west have taken into consideration the psychological and mental condition of a child into
consideration and view marriage to a nine year old despicabel. Now which Law and its abolition are you talking about?
doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 8:30 PM
I am sorry you are finding this hard to understand, let me try and break it down. Can you charge someone for speeding without a law in place ?
For example, can you charge someone in Antartica for tax avasion in Australia which is a serious crime?
I hope this is simple enough for you.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 8:50 PM
You are now in total denial and evading the issue that you raised.
You raised the issue of pedophilia. Pedophilia defines behavior of an adult with a child. Why can you not deal with the issue directly and make your arguments about your prophet whose sunnah is the basis of sharia, and whose example of pedophilia is still being used by muslims around the globe to ruin the lives of little girls?
Are you denying that muhammed married a six year old and had sex with a nine year old, which is pedophiliac behavior? Are you denying that muslims today in the 21st century are justifying marrying little girls because muhammed married aiesha when she was six? Please state clearly what is that you are denying or arguing about the pedophilia of muhammed.
What does speedin and tax evasion and charging under laws etc have anything to do with this discussion? Muhammed is not being charged under any law at all? Where did you get this idea of charging under a law notion?
Ali charged muhammed with marrying a six year old and having sex with a nine year old. Simple as that. Is Ali right or not? Islamic hadeeth state unequivocally that Ali is correct.
doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 8:52 PM
So according to you, Muhammad peace be upon him is a Pedophile and so was all of Arabia at the time as they had no objection including her parents who offered her to him and all of his enemies who witnesses the marriage ??
The entire humanity at the time were pedophiles according to you, don't you think such an accusation is foolish?
Don't you people work on logic and common sense? If even his enemies at the time did not see it as a problem, wouldn't it be foolish for you to apply your own judgement from a guide line you invented in your own mind?
This is what has sent you people astray, you have moulded your mind in a small and limited circle, you should travel more and maybe do some excersise.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 4, 2006 8:55 PM
This is getting difficult seeing you have little or no understanding. Do you realise that your claim is according to you? You do know that right ?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 9:42 PM
Who cares what the beduoin did in the 7th century? I do not. What is disturbing is that muslims use the example of Muhammed of the seventh century to decide and make laws for the children of today. You are the one who is obviously sensing that Pedophilia is bad and that is why you use the word
"accusation". Yes with the modern knowledge it is now well known that pedophilia is bad. That clearly states that the 7th century Arabians were barbaric, and what muhammed did was not praisworthy at all but something that is terrible. Do you think that the muslims who follow his sunnah today and justify marrying preteen girls, girls as young as six or seven, are doing right? How about you applying your common sense? You tell me whether that action of muhammed is right for the world of today? Do you think marriage of a 9 year old girl in the 21st century to a 50 year old mullah is "good" because
muhammed did that in the 7th century? You do know that is what the laws of many muslims countries say today. You know that is what the Supreme Court of Pakistan ruled legalising the marriage of a 10 year old and overturning the secular law that set the age of marriage at 16? So you agree that by the light of knowledge of today, muhammed the prophet of islam, did not set a very
good example for the muslims by having sex with a nine year old girl?
doubtless.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 4, 2006 9:59 PM
I have looked up a case from pakistan just for you:
12 year old
Friday, 13 May , 2005, 14:25
Lahore: A Pakistani court in the first verdict of its kind has declared valid the marriage of a 12-year-old girl, a lawyer and court officials said on Friday.
A judge sitting at the High Court in the eastern city of Lahore gave the ruling on the grounds that in Islam a female can marry if she has reached puberty, the officials told AFP.
He accepted a joint petition by the girl, named as Zeenat Bibi, and her 25-year-old husband Babar Javed and dismissed charges of rape which were filed by her father. "This is the first time that a court has validated marriage of a 12-year-old girl in Pakistan," her lawyer Azeem Sarwar said. The
decision was handed down on Wednesday. The ruling also overrides the Muslim Family Law under which the marriageable age for girls in Pakistan is 16 years, he added.
Notice the year is 2005. And the age of consent from 16 has been set to first menstruation as the Sharia dictates because of the example of the 7th century Arabia.
I may not have much understanding but I do know why muslim girls still are being married off while they are still children. Do you?
doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 12:02 AM
Yes, I see no prblems with that and you do, so your law forbids it and mine allows it, where does this leave us? My word against yours ??
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 12:06 AM
Amazing, the truth came out, your true colors show quickly. Reflect and think about yourself, we are discussing your charges against the Prophet, peace be upon him. Why do you discuss the 21st
centuary????????????????
So refrase your comments if that is your belief, say that according to the 21st centuary, bla bla bla......and if you want to persist your accusation against him (and he is the best of examples) that explain the issue put forward, why did everyone at the time have no issue, not even 1 single person.
You must find that very challenging.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 6:40 AM
My true color shows quickly or yours? Now you are defending having sex with children? All because muhammed wanted to and had sex with a child? Why do I discuss the 21st century? Because if you have not noticed we live in the 21st century, but muslims are stuck in the 7th. Because muhammed is the
best example for you that is the reason why muslims are stuck in the 7th century and have to consider pedophilia normal.
So where is it that Ali Sina is wrong? You have just proven him absolutely correct. Now you will twist and turn and will justify sex with nine year old as perfectly legitimate because your prophet was a pedophile in the 7th century. We have seen muslims do it umpteen times. No surprise there.
Doubtless.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 9:06 AM
You see what muslim women are complaining about in the 21st century about the acts of muslim men who justify it in Islamic Sharia because Muhammed was a pedophile. And you make excuses and can understand it? Girls as young as six months? How low and deeviant can a culture possibly get?
Ghada Jamshir
Interviewer: Some people say that Ghada Jamshir is a Sunni, and that this is why she is leading the battle against (mut'ah) marriages, which are authorized by religious law among the Shiites.
Ghada Jamshir: Authorized by religious law?!
Interviewer: Among the Shiites, yes.
Ghada Jamshir: Does the Islamic Shari'a authorize mut'ah marriages? Does the Islamic Shari'a authorize mut'ah according to the following classification: "Pleasure from sexual contact with her thighs." They have: "Pleasure from sexual touching." "pleasure from sexual contact with her breasts." "Pleasure from a little girl." Do you know what "pleasure from a little girl" means? It means that they derive sexual pleasure from a girl aged two, three, or four.
Interviewer: Let's not go into details...
Ghada Jamshir: Let me tell you what "Pleasure from sexual contact with her thighs" means...
Interviewer: Don't give me the details...
Ghada Jamshir: This is a violation of children's rights! This constitutes sexual assault of the girl.
What does "pleasure from sexual contact with her thighs" mean? It means deriving sexual pleasure from an infant. How old is an infant? One year, a year and a half, a few months?
Is it conceivable for a grown man to have sex with an infant girl? And you people tell me that the Islamic Sharia authorizes this? Forget about the mut'ah. Let's talk about misyar. What do misyar marriages mean? You said that I'm a Sunni and that's why I'm attacking the Shiites. No!
read it for yourself and there is video at the site as well and you can see it for yourself as well.
Doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 2:42 PM
This has nothing to do with our discussion, is this your method of Debate? We are talking about Aisha the wife of the Prophet peace be upon him.
Can you please stick to the topic, this looks really bad on your behalf.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 2:45 PM
You really can't see your own failure in this small discussion, if I was to open the door a little more you would be a shame to humanity.
Once again, please stick to the point, you are accusing a man from the 7th centuary, so, tell me why no one in the 7th centuary accused or charged him? Don't you think that is a simple question?
Try answer it, try really hard without changing the topic, I will pay $50 million if you can.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 3:21 PM
This has everything to do with the pedophilia charge against Muhammed. Let me try to make it clear. You ask about objection by others. You say that the culture of 7th century arabia accepted pedophilia. It was something that was considered "normal". Would a culture of cannibals object to someone being a
cannibal? Does that make cannabilism right? By your criteria if the cannibals do not object to another cannibal, it makes cannabilism acceptable. Do you see the absurdity of your logic? Muhammed was a pedophile and because pedophilia was accepted in the barbaric 7th century does not make pedophilia right
in light of what man has learnt since then.
That fact that pedophilia was acceptable to the arabs of muhammed's time would explain why in the quran the iddah period of those who are too young to have periods is mentioned in an offhand manner as if it is the most natural thing to have girls marrying before they have had their puberty.
Noble Quran Translation by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D. and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan.
65:4. And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three
months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and
whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.
Again if Muhammed was considered a barbarian like Chingez Khan a very very successful warlord that subdued and made an empire but was only for the 7th century who would care. But he is the prophet for all mankind and for all time. Quran is the guidance for all times, it it not. And there you have Allah saying implicitly that pedophilia is acceptable for all time by specifying that the iddah period of girls who are still immature is three months and then you have his prophet showing by example that pedophilia is acceptable by marrying a six year old.
And now I have shown you that muslims in 2005 are using the example and the word of the Quran and the example of muhammed to still condemn little girls all over in islamic lands to be victims of filthy pedophiles. It is not only an issue of theoretical interest for the health and well being of women as the transcript I sent you shows. Islam condemns liitle girls who are emotionally, psychologically and physically not ready for sex to satisfying the lust of filthy old men in the present, in the here and now, all because Muhammed the prophet of Islam was a pedophile and muslims consider every action of Muhammed worth emulating. The fact that muslims are still a pedophilia accepting culture simply proves that muslims accepted muhammed as a pedophile for the last 1450 years as the arabs of the 7th century did. You accept pedophilia as natural. I sent you the transcript showing that muslim women are not.
They object to the horrendous evil that Islam perpetrates on little girls.
So you see that Ali Sina is absolutely on the mark when he charged Muhammed with pedophilia.
doubtless.
To: faithfreedom2@gmail.com
Date: Sep 5, 2006 2:56 PM
Your difficulty, if you're not delibratly lieing, is understanding the difference between the 7th centuary and our centuaty.
Let me try and help, if we marry 18 year olds in our centuary, and in the 40th centuary people marry at 40 and see anything less as pedophilia, will this make all of us pedophiles?
And a note, just answer yes or no without trying to poison the question with your mixed off the topic lines.
Anyway, I really doubt you can answer yes or no, and i can tell you why, you have an opinion which is the oposite of free thinking as you claim to promote, you have closed and biased thinking, you have a target which is to try and give a sick interpretation which your team created of Islam, free thinking is to think objectively, not be driven be hate and look for things which meet your objective.
You see, people will judge Islam by looking and what seems bad and its explanation, and what seems good and its explanation, this is free thinking.
Now look at your team, it relates ahadeeth and Quran about what suits its objective, and denies ahadeeth and Quran which opposes the objective.
An example, you relate the hadeeth of the Prophet peace be upon him seeing Jinns, Angels etc, you use it to meet your objective, however, when there is hadeeth about him doing a miracle witnessed by many, such as
Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).
You will deny this took place because it does not suit your objective, however, you will narrate ahadeeth which suits your objective of injectiung hatred into humanity towards Islam.
May Allah guide you. Our duty is only to explain clearly the message of Allah, he is the one who knows the secrets of the hearts and will Judge accordingly.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 3:27 PM
Finally, I got somethiing out of your heart
You ask about objection by others. You say that the culture of 7th century arabia accepted pedophilia. It was something that was considered "normal". Would a culture of cannibals object to someone being a cannibal?
So, I will raise a question again you avoided answering earlier and have now shot your own foot, did the humans of the 7th century accept and practise Pedophilia ?????????
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 3:35 PM
Another clear error you made found with liitle or no effort is the fact you state the arabs accepted his marriage, why do you keep avoiding the truth, all of mankind accepted it of many races and nationalities until sick people arrose with hidden motives like Ali Sinner who hoped only to promote terror
violance and lies probably due to personal innsuffeciency and deep troubled childhood.
Islam's minority is Arab, your accusation only arrose in the last decade and for 1440 years no one felt it was a problem as people were alway civilised until your NAZI closed and biased thinking was forced onto as many people as possibe.
Why don't you stop forcing your beliefs on others and promote free thinking by providing all the information and not what suits you sick porogative.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 3:42 PM
Pedophilia was not accepted by many cultures in the 7th century. But as the Quran shows that pedophilia was accepted by the arabs around Muhammed.
The fact that they accepted pedophilia does not make it right, does it? According to muslims some Arabs of that time also practiced female infanticide and Muhammed stopped that showing that he at least considered that bad, but he did not stop pedophilia but practised it himself. Because he did not stop
it, muslims to this day consider it acceptable in their Sharia.
Now explain to me how have I shot myself in the foot? I am saying what I consider to be true. What I have said is horribly damning of muhammed as a prophet and of islam. How can Allah condemn little girls that way? How can any human accept the quran as the word of a good diety?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 3:58 PM
Look you are stuck in the 7th century. Why did mankind decide that marriage of children is bad? Mankind has learnt certain things about humans, their physiology, their psychology, etc. Knowledge is not stuck in the 7th century. Marriage of 9 year olds is considered cruel with the present knowledge.
Apparently your allah did not know that in the 7th century. Apparently Muhammed did not know any of that but set an example for muslims for all time. Do you understand that the reason why in 2006 the Islamic Sharia declares that first menstruation is the marriagable age for women and filthy old sheiks
are marrying pre-teen wives is because they are neglecting all the medical knowledge that man has gained and following an ignorant Allah and a pedophile prophet?
Do you personally feel comfortable with a 53 year old man marrying a six year old girl in the preset?
Please answer that. I really would like the reader to see your answer.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 4:03 PM
So, are you saying it was accepted as normal for 1440 years? You have become sick over time, there is not a single doubt the Quran is the word of Allah and free from any errors.
As I stated which you keep avoiding, if, in the 40th centuary they consider marriage below 40 as pedophilia, would this make us all pedophiles?
To: FFI
Date: Sep 5, 2006 4:08 PM
Your off the topic again, this is because you have no argument, we are talking about Muhammad peace be upon him. Once again, I will try put the question forward, if in the future it is considered that marrying below the age of 40 is pedophilia, will this make us pedophiles?
I know you will avoid anwering so I will answer for you and try get through the poison surrounding your heart, no, it will not make us pedophiles as in our time it is considered normal, there are no proofs that it is harmfull medically, the majority of humans today marry below 40 so the fact that our
marriages are correct will never change just because in 10 thousancd years a mob calls us uncivilised pedophiles.
Try stick to the topic and notion I have brought forth here via free thinking and leave your biased hatred on the side for just a moment. Thanks
To: submission now
Date: Sep 5, 2006 6:41 PM
Here, perhaps this will get through your muslim logic. I will do it without ever using the word pedophilia and you tell me if you agree or not.
1. Muhammed at the age of 53 dreamt of marrying a baby.
2. Muhammed married a six year old and had sex with a girl just under nine year old.
3. The Quran implicitly allows marriage of girls who too immature to have had their menstruation.
4. Islam to this day allows old men to marry pre teen girls.
5. Many old muslim men do emulate muhammed and marry babies in the present day and age.
6. Modern medical knowledge now knows that for the human spiecies, it is not right to marry little
babies.
7. Muslims ignore the modern knowledge and prefer to follow Muhammed's example.
8. In the light of present knowledge about girls, what muhammed did was wrong.
Is there any statement that you disagree with? Look up the definition of pedophilia and a child and see whether muhammed's actions fit the bill or not.
I ask again, do you personally find a 53 year old marrying a six year old acceptable in the present? Please answer this question so the eventual readers can see and gauge a muslim mind.
regards,
Doubtless.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 1:06 AM
You are a very silly man, I asked a clear question twice, can you read?? Tell me if you need the question repeated...awaiting an answer.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 1:08 AM
Incase you are retarted, here is the question again,If in 4000 years mankind realises that marrying at below the age of 40 is Pedophilia, does that make us pedophiles?
Simple question which should help your sick mind see some light.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 1:22 AM
Subject: May God open you blackened heart.
You quoted from your lies and hatred to the highest degree, I really don't
know how someone can function a normal life full of such extreme hatred.
1. Muhammed at the age of 53 dreamt of marrying a baby. 1st lie
2. Muhammed married a six year old and had sex with a girl just under nine
year old. 2nd lie
3. The Quran implicitly allows marriage of girls who too immature to have
had their menstruation.3rd lie
4. Islam to this day allows old men to marry pre teen girls. Men can marry
women, not infants.
5. Many old muslim men do emulate muhammed and marry babies in the present
day and age. another lie
6. Modern medical knowledge now knows that for the human spiecies, it is not
right to marry little babies. Sex with a baby is only rejected by Islam.
7. Muslims ignore the modern knowledge and prefer to follow Muhammed's
example. Correct, he is the best creation in the universe. Billions of
people would die for him in an instant.
8. In the light of present knowledge about girls, what muhammed did was
wrong. Wrong
So, as it has become very clear, your are a compulsive liar, a terrorist, a spreader of corruption, a promoter of subjective thinking, a promoter of extreme hate to another nation (NAZI), a hypocrite, you oppose what you preach (Free thinking), and ontop of that, you sound sick.
Maybe you should travel more. Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) married a women who was offered to him by her parents in a manner that was normal at the time, she was a women and not a girl and especially not a baby.
I know you are avoiding my question because you are corrupt, but here it goes again,
Can you answer, that if in 4000 years mankind finds it to be pedophilia to marry anyone under the age of 40, does this make us today pedophiles ? YES or NO circle your answer. Its only one question very simple y or n ?
To: submission now
Date: Sep 6, 2006 6:59 AM
Look at yourself in the mirror and ask why you did not and could not answer wether any of the 8 facts I listed for you were wrong. Instead you want to know whether 40 years olds can be defined as children.
Do you think a circle can be defined as a squrare? How can a forty year old be considered children for the existing human species? Pedophilia involves children. It is not arbitrary. But even if one takes your question seriously and accepts that in the future for some reason they find that for humans
marrying under the age of 40 is terrible and should not have been done, then that will mean that the present knowledge was deficient and any prophet who had married under the age of forty did not know and his allah had not told him and hence his sunnah cannot be the basis for emulation for all men for all
time. Show me where I am lying. Tell me which of the eight statments I made are wrong. If none of them are wrong, then where is the lie? Look what Islam has done to your brain. I am asking you again for the third time: Do you think it is right for a 53 year old to marry a six year old in the present?
Please answer that question. It should be easy. Your prophet did it, afterall.
Doubtless.
To: faithfreedom2@gmail.com
Date: Sep 6, 2006 2:33 PM
Just what I thought, was it that easy to finish you off. You really need an education. I will display you inability to answer one simple question that will leave your entire argument with no foundation. Thats the power of free thinking. May God guide you to peace (Islam)
To: submission now
Date: Sep 6, 2006 2:47 PM
You have finished me off? You have not answered any of the questions asked of you and you have not addressed any of the charges against mohammed. I will publishe this email exchange on FFI so every one can see the marvelous logic of the muslim mind. You should be delighted so every one can see how you totally and completely demolished all the arguments against your pedophiliac prophet. Please tell all your muslim friends to visit FFI and see your accomplishment at "finishing me off". I should be able to post this exchange soon.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 2:53 PM
You do realise that if a Prophet drove a car today, that does not mean his followers in 4000 years have to drive a car you idiot, they follow his teachings and apply them to what is suitable in there time. If Jets are suitable, they use Jets.
If a Prophet today married a women at 18 and in 4000 years mankind evolves to a state where marriage is better at 40, they would marry at 40.
Put your black heart on the side for a moment, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married a women of his time, and we marry women of our time. Dont compare a circle to a square.
Aside from positive or negative reports about Muhammad, written hundreds of years after his death (1), the image of Islam's Prophet among Muslims originates from explicit Qur'anic proclamations, such as,
blessed (33:56), mercy towards all creations (21:107), emancipator of humanity (7:157), etc. According to Ibn Durayd's (837CE-933CE) Kitab al Ishtiqaq, Muhammad means one who is continuously praised. Muhammad's other name Ahmed (61:6) means pretty much the same. And the Qur'an declares Muhammad to be
raised to the station of praise and glory, that is, “Maqamam Mahmood” (17:79). Still Muhammad is human (17:94) of the noblest moral character (68:4).
Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in Bhavishya Purana
According to Bhavishya Purana in the Prati Sarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 5 to 8."A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins)
offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, "I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents."
Bible Ch 112
Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that I cannot weep as much as I ought. For if men had not called me God, I should have seen God here as he will be seen in paradise, and should have been safe not to fear the day of judgement. But God knoweth that I am innocent, because never have I harboured thought to
be held more than a poor slave. Nay, I tell thee that if I had not been called God I should have been carried into paradise when I shall depart from the world, whereas now I shall not go thither until the judgement. Now thou seest if I have cause to weep. Know, O Barnabas, that for this I must have great
persecution, and shall be sold by one of my disciples for thirty pieces of money. Whereupon I am sure that he who shall sell me shall be slain in my name, for that God shall take me up from the earth, and shall change the appearance of the traitor so that every one shall believe him to be me; nevertheless,
when he dieth an evil death, I shall abide in that dishonor for a long time in the world. But when Mohammed shall come, the sacred messenger of God, that infamy shall be taken away. And this shall God do because I have confessed the truth of the Messiah; who shall give me this reward, that I shall be known
to be alive and to be a stranger to that death of infamy.'
I know all this must burn in your heart but try and clense yourself before Death as there is no second chance. God will only accept Islam.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 2:57 PM
You publish your inability to answer a simple question I will also publish it in the true form (Which I know you will not show) on faithfreedom.com
I look forward to seeing you on the day of Judgement when only Mohammad will be given intercession for mankind. Peace and blessings be upon him.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 3:02 PM
n case you consider showing the truth, here is the question again for you to publish.
If in 4000 years mankind thought it would be pedophilia to marry anyone below the age of 40, would all of us today become pedophiles?
We would not becuase marrying today is based on what is suitable, healthy and known as a good age today.
If humans evolved over time to a stage that marrying below 40 is unhealthy, unbeneficial than one should follow what is beneficial and suitable according to the development of the humand body.
Even if a 30 year old women today was undeveloped physically one should not marry her because we dont jugde by age rather by the physical and intelectual development of the person.
To: FFI
Date: Sep 6, 2006 3:05 PM
I challenge you to publish my question as sent in my last email which you can not answer as if you do answer your entire website would have to be closed due to one FREE thinker.
lol, your argument were very weak.
To: submission now
Date: Sep 6, 2006 9:13 PM
You write: "If a Prophet today married a women at 18 and in 4000 years mankind evolves to a state where marriage is
better at 40, they would marry at 40".
You write:
"We would not becuase marrying today is based on what is suitable, healthy and known as a good age today.
If humans evolved over time to a stage that marrying below 40 is unhealthy, unbeneficial than one should follow what is beneficial and suitable according to the development of the humand body.
Even if a 30 year old women today was undeveloped physically one should not marry her because we dont jugde by age rather by the physical and intelectual development of the person."
Look at the Pakistani High court ruling in 2005 that I sent you that you could not find relevent. Muslims marry women at first menstruation. Girls as young as five can and do menstruate. Muhammed did not marry someone 18. He married a six year old. You are too ashamed to even say that, and your prophet did it. Look what the brave Bahrani Woman is saying. Your filthy culture is letting filthy pedophiles have sex with six month old little girls. And you are in denial. You are admitting your prophet's sunnah is not for all time. He did not know it is not good to marry six year olds. Did he?
You wrote:
"Maybe you should travel more. Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) married a women who was offered to him by her parents in a manner that was normal at the time, she was a women and not a girl and especially not a baby."
She was not offered. You are ashamed and lying. Muhammed asked for her and Abu Bakr her father initially turned him down. She was a woman who was playing with dolls in a culture and at a time when Muhammed only allowed children to play with dolls. Have you ever seen a six year old? You call that a woman?
Anyway, this now comes to a close.
All of the email exchange should be online
See: < a href = "http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=427">This Post
Here is hoping that a ray of rationality and logic and empathy will penetrate that blanket of evil of Islam and you will wake up and join humanity.
regards
Doubtless.
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