The Story of Bani Al-Nadeer Under Scrutiny
Submitted by Ibn Kammuna on Sun, 01/18/2009 - 08:47
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Introduction
In this study, I investigate the story of the banishment of Bani Al-Nadeer, a Jewish tribe from Medina, by the prophet of forgiveness Muhammad (PBUH). No views are offered in advance, but rather the events are discussed as they come. At the end of this article, I present to the reader some of the related hadiths.
The Story
The full story can be found in “The Life of Muhammad: A translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah” translated by A. Guillaume – twenty first impression, 2007 (pages 437-8). A summary of the story follows this sequence of events:
1. The prophet Muhammad goes to Ban Al-Nadeer, along with some Muslim leaders like Abu Bakr, Umar and Ali, and asks them to help him in paying bloodwit money for two men of Ban Amer killed by mistake by Muslims. It is important here to remember that Bani Al-Nadeer were under no obligation to help the Muslims here. The agreement between the Muslim camp and the Jewish tribes of Medina was to help each other in case there is an external threat to attack Medina (i.e. Quraysh coming to town to attack the Muslims, or the Medinan tribes).
2. Bani Al-Nadeer tell Muhammad that they will help him with money.
3. Muhammad leaves the other Sahaba in the meeting and vanishes. He actually went back home.
4. His Sahaba leave after they realize that Muhammad is not coming back
5. When the Sahaba see the prophet, he tells them that the Jews, Bani Al-Nadeer, were conspiring to kill him. How? By having someone go on the top of the wall that was behind them where they were meeting, and dropping a rock on him (Muhammad) thus killing him.
6. Muhammad gives orders to prepare for war against Bani Al-Nadeer, and marches against them. Muhammad lays siege to Bani Al-Nadeer, who sought refuge in their forts. He also orders the burning and destruction of their palm trees (Bani Al-Nadeer were mostly farmers who tended the land and raised crops). Orders were carried out to the letter.
7. Bani Al-Nadeer receive some promises of help from other tribes that never materialized.
8. Finally Bani Al-Nadeer struck an agreement with the prophet (PBUH) to allow them to leave town with all their belongings except their weapons. This, in fact, came to pass. Some of them went to Khaiber and some went to Syria.
9. All of their left property and land became Muhammad’s. He distributed it amongst the first immigrants, and a couple of Ansars who were in need. (What a generous thief!!)
The above, pretty much sums up what happened. Please note that Bani Al-Nadeer were in no position to fight the Muslims. The reasons for my claim here is that Muhammad has become the main war lord of Medina. Earlier, he had successful attacks against the Meccan commercial caravans. He had attacked unprovoked Bani AL-Mustaliq. He had gotten rid of the Qainuqa tribe from Medina. He had just assassinated Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf, the Bani Al Nadeer leader. He suffered no consequences from all this. This, in my view, indicates that a farming community like Bani Al-Nadeer was in no position to put up a good fight against the Muslims.
So, when Muhammad went to them asking for money to help the Muslims who killed two men from another tribe, Bani Al-Nadeer were under no obligation to help the Muslims financially. But they knew what Muhammad was up to. He was looking for their refusal to pay, so that he can have a reason to attack them in war and take their belongings. However they were smart enough to tell him that they’ll help him. That answer did not sit well with Muhammad, and so he leaves in a hurry and invents the story that they were plotting to kill him with a big rock dropped from the top of a wall behind where they were sitting.
What a ridiculous story! Even a naïve person can read between the lines and see that they, Bani Al-Nadeer, could have killed all the Muslims’ leaders who were in that meeting if they wanted to. After all, Muhammad and his Sahaba in the meeting were probably no more than five or six men, sitting in in the heart of Bani Al-Nadeer tribe. Bani Al-Nadeer could have killed them all right then during that meeting. This did not take place, and we are supposed to believe that ridiculous story about the Jews trying to kill his holiness, Prophet Muhammad the First, with a big rock! Only a man with no reflective thinking ability can believe such a story.
The fact of the matter is, Muhammad wanted to attack them, one way or another. He hoped they will say no to his money request. When this did not work out, he invented the “rock from the top of the wall” story. And, amazingly enough, Muslim apologetics buy into such a story. Religious fervor blocks their brain cells, and no analytical thinking is done. They just believe a ridiculous story and move on.
Hadiths and Qur’an references related to the Bani Al-Nadeer incident
Hadith- burning of palm trees:
Muslim -Book 019, Number 4324:
It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered the date-palms of Banu Nadir to be burnt and cut. These palms were at Buwaira. Qutaibah and Ibn Rumh in their versions of the tradition have added: So Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, revealed the verse:" Whatever trees you have cut down or left standing on their trunks, it was with the permission of Allah so that He may disgrace the evil-doers" (lix. 5).
Hadith – prophet Muhammad gets all of the Bani Al-Nadeer’s properties
Muslim-Book 019, Number 4347:
It has been narrated on the authority of Umar, who said: The properties abandoned by Banu Nadir were the ones which Allah bestowed upon His Apostle for which no expedition was undertaken either with cavalry or camelry. These properties were particularly meant for the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him). He would meet the annual expenditure of his family from the income thereof, and would spend what remained for purchasing horses and weapons as preparation for Jihad.
Hadith – Qur’anic Sura “Al-Hashr” was revealed because of the above incident
Muslim-Book 043, Number 7185:
Sa'id b. Jubair reported: I said to Ibn 'Abbas about Sura Tauba, whereupon he said: As for Sura Tauba, it is meant to humiliate (the non-believers and the hypocrites). There is constantly revealed in it (the pronoun) minhum (of them) and minhom (of them, i. e. such is the condition of some of them) till they (the Muslims) thought that none would be left unmentioned out of them who would not be blamed (for one fault or the other). I again said: What about Sura Anfal? He said: It pertains to the Battle of Badr. I again asked him about Sura al-Hashr. He said: It was revealed in connection with (the tribe) of Banu Nadir.
Here are the links in Arabic and in English to this Sura:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/7744/59alhashr.html
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/059.qmt.html
This Sura is no more than a Muhammadan justification to take over the belongings of Bani Al-Nadeer, mixed with a lot of threats from Muhammad’s sock puppet, Allah.
Live by the sword die by the
Live by the sword die by the sword. Muslims relish their past glories which they acquired through annihilating and opressing others, now it is their turn. Every blood of innocent people that was shed by muhammad is being repaid now. By Iraqis, palestinians, afghanis, sudanese, somalis, pakis, etc. They became rich by plundering on others, now it is their turn. I see around the most poor people are muslims. What goes around comes around!
Mohammad was a Terrorist
Mohammad was a Terrorist
Jenn said it all when she
Jenn said it all when she said that "Mohmmad was a Terrorist." But nowadays Muhammad's followers like Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Kaeda, are the terrorists. I know that others, like Satan, will start ranting about he distant past in order to divide, but that will not solve the problems of today. Fight on, intelligent people. Let's see what we can do about the evil Muslims that are at present killing, raping and torturing. Dear nice Muslims. I'm indicting only the evil Muslims who are also preying on you too. I'm condemning especially the long bearded, Muslim male perverts that are raping little girls everyday. Nice people, be careful and don't get carried away when satanic people try to divide and conquer. The best thing to do is not even read their nasty misinterpretations and sometimes outright lies. I have learned to ignore these creatures who rant and rave. If you are truly a nice person, then I know you can ignore and pray for the wayward creatures who try to pass as good persons but down deep are "ravenous wolves." Thank you and may the God of Christians and Jews bless you. Keep up the good fight against the horrible violence that is occurring now.
Ibn Kammuna says '--the
Ibn Kammuna says
'--the banishment of Bani Al-Nadeer, a Jewish tribe from Medina, by the prophet of forgiveness Muhammad (Piss Be Upon the Pedophile)--'
And 1400 years after the death of Pedophile prophet of Islam , now and only now the Jews have a chance to pay back the Degenerate followers of Pedo Mo in their own coin.
Its payback time
Its payback time
There is no other way to
There is no other way to fight the expansionism of Islam but through non-violent Hindu ways such as Yoga and Kama Sutra. The Israelis are fighting the Muslims the wrong way in Gaza. Only through appeasement and dhimmitude can we obtain peace on this earth in accordance with Hinduism. You can not fight a sword with a sword but through meditation. It’s very simple really. I’ll give you an example. When Muslims try to kill you and behead you because you’re worshiping a god with multiple hands, just assume the meditation pose by crossing your leg on a squat position, and touch both your index fingers and thumb to achieve the best mantra and close your eyes. I promise you this will work because Muslims will fall in love with you right away for demonstrating your courage as a Hindu follower. They will not cut your throat right away but will probably laugh their asses off first and then will proceed to cut your throat when their tired of laughing. I know you’re still dead but at least you can buy time to transform into a sacred cow once Krishna will save your existence. This is how peace on earth will be achieved through non-violent Hindu way. Trust me on this one because I have seen the ultimate truth through Hinduism.
Now for the Jews that was massacred by the Muslims long time ago, I can’t blame them for not fighting because maybe they tried to be as peaceful as Hindus also. They should have accepted the life of dhimmitude like the Hindus in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Kashmir and in some part of mother India. Look how peaceful these countries are now. All of these countries are thriving with blessings and prosperity. Poverty and corruption is non-existent in these countries and all because of the peaceful means of fighting evil. You can also fight evil through vegetarianism. The competition to acquire Halal meat is no longer needed thus minimizing predatory urge amongst Muslim and Hindu population. So what if Hindus are required to wear an identifying scarf on their arms, as long as it is colorful and vibrant and the design conforms with the latest homosexual taste Beverly Hills can offer. I’m telling you people, just be happy and gay and everything will be alright.
Practicing yoga will not pick
Practicing yoga will not pick the "untouchables" from Hindu gutters.
Hello Guys and Gals, I am
Hello Guys and Gals,
I am almost done reading Sami Alrabba's book "Karin in Saudi Arabia". Some of the stories are just unbelievable to bear. The evil lying within that kingdom is just too much. I have believed, and published many articles to show, that Islam is evil and Muhammad is Evil Incarnate. However, I was theoretical in my analysis. But this book show a practical aspect of Islam as it is in real life, in a country that follows its edicts. I just cannot believe that the west keeps shutting its mouth to the Saudis and what those evil rulers there are doing. It is Oil that we care about in the west. We need it, and so we veil our eyes from seeing the pains and sufferings of people living in Saudi Arabia. By the book folks. Its great knowledge that awakens our minds, hearts and souls. Peace
I meant "Buy the Book" folks.
I meant "Buy the Book" folks. Sorry about the typo
Practicing yoga will not pick
lets practice pedophilia as the catholic church does then or perhaps make slaves out of them as OT laws suggest. Kill all males and take their virgin daughters as wives. That surely will save all the untouchables, including the black American untouchables.
continuum Says: Practicing
continuum Says:
Practicing yoga will not pick the “untouchables” from Hindu gutters.
lets practice pedophilia as the catholic church does then or perhaps make slaves out of them as OT laws suggest. Kill all males and take their virgin daughters as wives. That surely will save all the untouchables, including the black American untouchables.
My response:
You are right concerning the Catholic Priests committing pedophilia my Hindu brother continuum. Hindus will never do such thing. But since you brought this subject up here, I might want to show you and the rest of the gangs here in FFI about the lying accusations of evil Christians against our fellow Hindus. I honestly believe these are all lies to make Hindus like us look bad because Hinduism is the absolute true and perfect religion, and Hindus will never commit anything like the Islamic Qur’an. One of the evil Christian gave me the information below. Can you please assure me as a new Hindu that these are not true?
Does Hinduism promote pedophilia?
started by gyaanputra 2 yrs ago
Child marriage of daughters 5-6 years old was common due to the custom of dowry and to avoid scandals [Nand 17] [Basham 167-8] [Yadav 70] [Altekar 16] [Banerjee 70].
Hindu Law books prescribe that the best partner for a man in one-third his age. Thus a man 18 year old should marry a girl 6 years old! –
"A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner."[Manu IX.94]
This was meant to prevent any scandals. Narada states that some of the defects to be avoided in brides are if they already had a relationship with another man or have their minds set on another, they should not be selected [Sheth 67].
Minor Hindu girls (Uppili's nieces) married off to frogs
started by gyaanputra 1 day ago
Two minor girls married off to frogs
17 Jan 2009, 2301 hrs IST, TNN
PUDUCHERRY: In a bizarre ritual, two minor girls, both seven, from the remote Pallipudupet village in Tamil Nadu's Villupuram district were married off to frogs on Friday night. The ceremony, an annual feature during the Pongal (harvest) festival, is conducted "to prevent the outbreak of mysterious diseases in the village''.
The girls, Vigneswari and Masiakanni, dressed up in traditional bridal finery -- gilded sarees and gold jewellery -- married the frog 'princes' in separate, elaborate ceremonies at two different temples in the presence of hundreds of villagers.
Amidst chanting of vedic hymns, the temple priests garlanded the brides and tied the magalsutras on behalf of the frogs pronouncing the two as wives of the amphibians before the sacred fire at the auspicious hour.
The villagers threw themselves into the ceremonies with gusto. While residents living in the western part of the village acted as relatives of the brides and those from the eastern part play-acted as relatives of the grooms. The ceremonies had all the usual elements of a traditional marriage including a sumptuous feast.
However, unlike the fairy tale `Frog Prince', where the ugly toad turns into a handsome prince when the princess kisses it, the Villupuram village belles bid their amphibian grooms goodbye and lead a normal life thereafter. As for the terrified frogs, they are thrown back into the temple ponds after the ceremony.
Earlier the 'relatives' of the brides came in a procession to the grooms' houses in the eastern part of the village to fix the marriage and later went to the temple pond to catch the frogs. The frog princes were tied to long sticks decorated with garlands for the marriage ceremonies.
An elderly woman of the village said the ritual was practised traditionally for several generations to ward off evil spirits and diseases from the village.
Villupuram district collector R Palaniswamy told TOI that he had deputed a team led by the district social welfare officer to visit the village and submit a detailed report. "The district administration proposes to evolve comprehensive schemes to motivate and enlighten the villagers against such evil and ignorant practises," he said. But all these years the strange practice has been going on unchecked.
Some excellent content here
Some excellent content here and a nice writing style too - keep up the great work!
Continuum, you really
Continuum, you really misunderstand Christianity man. I won't keep repeating this anymore to you. I wish you the best brother.
Hindu Law books prescribe
Minor Hindu girls (Uppili’s
Mow where on Earth does it say/prescribe in Hindu scriptures marriage to frogs ?
Hindus do a lot of silly things. No question about that.
Since ff67 wanted to go into
Since ff67 wanted to go into details regarding pedophilia, do these verses in bible suggest pedophilia was allowed, besides the fact that murdering men and taking women and girls by force. Also take a look at European history on what was the age limit for marriage.
Numbers 31
17. So now kill every male child, and every woman who can lie intimately with a man you shall kill.
18. But all the women children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
My dear friend Ibn Kammuna,
My dear friend Ibn Kammuna, why don't you do what I and other good people are doing when certain names come up. I and others are skipping over the same old rants from very evil people. Remember what we are taught. Some creatures will stir up trouble no matter what happens. These two creatures even condemn Mother Teresa and her good works. Some time back one of them complained that Mother Teresa collected "millions" of Christian money, and did not share with bad individuals so that they could spend it at their leisure. These creatures from a backward Third World Country usually are that way. Because of their weak mentality, they cannot figure out that Mother Teresa needed her money for food, clothes, shelter, transportation, medicine, and to go save other "untouchables" that were driven into Hindu gutters. And then these creatures get angry because Mother Teresa taught the "untouchables" horrible Christian doctrine such as: "Feed the hungry." "Clothe the naked." "Cure the sick." "Love your enemy." "Do good to those who persecute you." "Love your neighbor." "Love your enemy." Ibn, I don't know how long you have been a Christian, but Christianty teaches that "evil hates what is good." Let me tell you a little story about Hindus and Muslims that come to our beautiful country that treats everyone fairly. Many people come to our shores often as immagrants. Some of them are Muslims and Hindus. One thing that we have found is that Muslims and Hindus think almost the same. When these creatures come into our half-way houses, we give them free food, free lodging, free everything. When the people and these two particular creatures finish eating, they are asked to volunteer, to sweep, wash dishes, and other chores. Guess what happens? The Muslims and Hindus put up a very great stink and refuse to even wash their Christian plates. I kid you not. These creature are worse than children that throw tantrums. Is it because they come from a backward Third World Country? That might be part of the reason that Hindus and Muslims act that way. Anyway, who do you think that volunteer? That's right, the Christian Immigrants who come from Central and South America. Do you see the difference between Christians and Hindus-Muslims? I kid you not. These two groups are still lacking something upstairs. It's incredible but true. Something else, these two groups, Hindus-Muslims act like we Christians owe them free lodging, food, and also to clean-up their mess. It's sad but true. We find these two groups as very selfish and inconsiderate. Well anyway friend, do what I do. Ignore them. Do not read their rants. It's useless with some creatures. When they become too evil, it's rare that they become good. May God bless you Ibn and even the bad creatures.
Ibn Kammuna Says: January
Ibn Kammuna Says:
January 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Continuum, you really misunderstand Christianity man. I won’t keep repeating this anymore to you. I wish you the best brother.
My response:
Ibn Kammuna, how dare you say that to my Hindu brother continuum. This man is my idol. Please don’t you dare blemish his reputation here in FFI as the most knowlegable Hindu scholar specializing the studies of Christian doctrines by saying he misunderstood Christianity. That’s pure insult to this man’s scholastic achievement. He has acquired a Masters Degree on Christian Theology by reading through anti-Christian Hindu websites. I can testify I saw his credentials. He showed me a certificate using a template from Microsoft Works and I can assure you it was for real. It was authenticated and signed by some intelligent Hindu Guru with a lot of hair like Muhammad. I swear to Krishna and Brahma and all the other Hindu gods mostly the purple ones that I am telling the truth.
I used to be a Christian but this scholar has convinced me that Hinduism is the truth not because he doesn’t know anything about Christianity but he knows everything about it. I trusted him with all my life. He even knew that jesus like Hindu food. Now tell me. Does any Christians in this site knew that? I don’t think so. Even the disciples didn’t know that. So please listen to this man and he can shed some light for you about Christianity and the Bible and hopefully, you will join us in our perfect religion of Hinduism.
The so called mother teresa
The so called mother teresa is a big fraud as already proven before. She is fraud because she did not use the money to serve poor, but she used it to build more convents. I already showed before that Teresa's orphanages are NOT even equipped with proper toilets. People have to use toilets and crap in front of each other naked. In addition she could NOT even provide proper beds with all the millions of dollars to so called Hindu untouchables.
Atheists have exposed this shameful christian sham called teresa.
youtube.com/watch?v=qzFEesUUX0s
Freedomfighter67 aka toilent
Freedomfighter67 aka toilent drinker, you are bad at quoting scriptures. After converting to Hinduism you should know that 18 puranas, upanishads, Bhagavad gita, Mahabharath and Ramayana are considered relevant for any discussion. It seems you ate the left over cakes in the toilet. Come out of it mate! Here is the truth about one of your Popes. Pope John XII (955-964 AD), born from an incestuous relationship between Pope Sergio III and his 13-year-old daughter Marozie, took his mother as his own mistress. Anyway, Church is full of such crimes even now. I hope you are not carry such things into Hinduism. Otherwise, you are better off living as a toilet cleaner (which is a good job) and worshipping that nailed fellow.
Here is some good news for you ever since you converted to Hinduism and started practicing yoga. A church is converted into a Hindu temple in South Africa. http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8039&SKIN=W
In order to hide their lack
In order to hide their lack of substance, some people keep posting nonsense without any logic.
Although the topic deals with Jewish massacre, I would like to compare biblical god to allah, which shows that they are essentially same entity. A society that worships an entity that acts/teaches like a demonic entity will behave like that. No wonder Muhammad and his companions who worship such dark entities (despite being imaginary) acted in this manner. These verses show why christians and muslims hold such disdain for other religions.
Both gods are equally vicious. Both gods have utter disdain for all other religions and condemn the followers of those faiths to eternal damnation.
But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers. (Al-Baqarah 2:24)
Yes! Whosoever earns evil and his sin has surrounded him, they are dwellers of the Fire (i.e. hell); they will dwell therein forever. (Al-Baqarah 2:81)
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 (New International Version)
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
“[H]e that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him”(John 3:36).
John 3:36 (New International Version)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
This was a tough nut to break. Sometimes it seems allah and jehovah has very close competition between them for this. But I think Christian god wins in selective cases like 1 Samuel 15:3, but in general allah seems to be more cruel for non-believers. In the end, both gods have unlimited hatred for the unbelievers whom allegedly these gods have created.
“that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord,.......If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15).
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (At-Tawbah 9:29)
I think the Judeo-Christian God wins this race on cruelty. Allah although cruel, seems to stop the warfare after there is no resistance.
So, when you meet (in fight Jihâd in Allâh's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islâm), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allâh to continue in carrying out Jihâd against the disbelievers till they embrace Islâm (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allâh's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allâh, He will never let their deeds be lost, (Muhammad 47:4)(Koran 47:4).
“And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones . . . shalt thou take unto thyself . . . But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”(Deuteronomy 20:13-16).
Again Judeo-Christian god wins this race as well.
And to these, He said in my ears, "Pass through the city after him and smite; let your eye spare not and have no pity. Old man, young man, and maiden, young children and women, you shall slay utterly, but to any man upon whom there is the mark you shall not draw near, and you shall commence from My sanctuary." So they commenced from the old men who were before the House. And He said to them, "Defile the House and fill the courts with the slain [and] go out," and they went out and smote in the city. (Ezekiel 9:5-7).
Allâh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allâh loves those who deal with equity. (Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)
But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in Allâh. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. (Al-Anfal 8:61)
Hmmm.... I do not know what to say here. Christian god has utter contempt for themm, while allah seems to have contempt for homos but his brothels have lots of boys.... weird...
And a man who lies with a male as one would with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon themselves.(Leviticus 20:13).
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.(1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
"Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (Al-A'raf 7:81)
And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls. (At-Tur 52:24)
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls. (Al-Insan 76:19)
Well, NOT considering death sentences by stoning (both gods prescribe these punishments of stoning), both gods also prescribe whipping the sinners. You decide which one is more vicious ? or does it even matter ?
The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law). (An-Nur 24:2)
and it shall be, if the guilty one has incurred [the penalty of] lashes, that the judge shall make him lean over and flog him in front of him, commensurate with his crime, in number. He shall flog him with forty [lashes]; he shall not exceed, lest he give him a much more severe flogging than these [forty lashes], and your brother will be degraded before your eyes.(Deuteronomy 25:2-3).
Both equally....as they both have utter hatred and contempt for unbelievers and both want you to burn in hell forever.
But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers. (Al-Baqarah 2:24)
“But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him” (Luke 12:5).
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).
Both place least value on women.
Allâh commands you as regards your children's (inheritance); to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; (An-Nisa 4:11)
1. And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
2. Speak to the children of Israel and say to them: When a man expresses a vow, [pledging the] value of lives to the Lord,
3. the [fixed] value of a male shall be as follows: From twenty years old until sixty years old, the value is fifty silver shekels, according to the holy shekel;
4. And if she is a female, the value is thirty shekels;
5. And if [the person is] from five years old until twenty years old, the value of a male shall be twenty shekels, while that of a female shall be ten shekels;
6. And if [the person is] from one month old until five years old, the value of a male shall be five silver shekels, while the value of a female shall be three silver shekels;
7. And if [the person is] sixty years old or over, if it is a male, the value shall be fifteen shekels, while for a female, it shall be ten shekels. (Leviticus27:1-7).
Well, sometimes it seems to be allah and sometimes it seems to be Christian god. Over all allah wins this race in my experience.
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" ; (1 Timothy 2:11-12).
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1Corinthians 14:34-35).
Indeed Allâh has heard the statement of her (Khaulah bint Tha'labah) that disputes with you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning her husband (Aus bin AsSâmit), and complains to Allâh. And Allâh hears the argument between you both. Verily, Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Seer. (Al-Mujadilah 58:1)
There is a tie between the two gods on this.
Verily, Allâh is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allâh intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh). (Al-Baqarah 2:26)
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).
Continuum, I must salute you
Continuum, I must salute you for exposing the Quranic and Biblical God. Your above post is 100 times better than the original article written. My goodness, all these years I thought Biblical God was different from Quran's God. As your post states these Gods hold their hands together all the time. The Christian-Muslim God should demise soon for the well-being of earth. I once again thank you for providing a wonderful analysis of the Quranic-Biblical God
Many people come to our
That is interesting.... In all the years staying in West, I have NOT seen any Hindu or Muslim getting free anything. Al of them came here through hard work and earn more through their hard work. I do NOT know what BS these idiot Christians are talking about here.
All you foolish Christians do is keep writing BULL SHIT like above, instead of dealing with facts.
To my hindu brother
Caste System is not just
Caste System is not just Racism, but it is much more Vicious, Venomous, Evil and Cruel; Caste System is Racism, Fascism and Nazism.
It has been frequently written about these days and even the so-called intellectuals and the social scientists in CASTE INDIA keep saying with absolute arrogance that ‘The Caste System cannot be clubbed with Racism because Caste System is not Racism and also this is the “internal problem of India” and therefore the world community cannot and should not discuss the hindu Caste System in “The United Nations Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance to be held in Durban, South Africa during August 28 and September 1, 2001″. This only shows how much these so-called hindu intellectuals and social scientists are immersed in the evil teachings of HINDU SATANIC CULT and thus adamantly adhere to the appalling intellectual dishonesty. They are such intellectual prostitutes by their conspiracy of deafening silence always maintain that they are ready and willing to prostitute their so-called intelligence to protect their ill-gotten benefits out of an unique hindu evil and inhuman system of dreadful and grisly Caste System. By maintaining iron-fisted arrogance of upholding this evil Caste System, the venomous manifestation of the barbarous hindu Satanic Cult, these evil hindu creatures want the perpetuation and the continuation of the most heinous and unspeakable vicious crimes, atrocities, and abuses against humanity at any cost. And the most heinous and ferocious practice of untouchability that is being imposed on the desperately innocent citizens of Caste India by the EVIL CASTE SYSTEM of the barbarous hindu Satanic Cult is the daily occurrence in Caste India at free will and at ease.
The barbarous hindus are so dishonest and mentally corrupt to the core that they are not even willing to go back in time to investigate as to how this evil Caste System came into practice. What is this Caste System? It is nothing but VARNASHRAMA DHARMA! What is Varna? What is the real meaning of this word Varna? VARNA simply means COLOR. Yes, even a child would tell you that COLOR simply means RACE. I am not even going to the origin of this evil Caste System in detail, but one should at least be honest enough to know and accept as decent human beings that the white Aryans from Central Asia, nomadic and barbaric thugs, invaded India (The glorious Indus Valley Civilization) which had been inhabited by the dark-skinned people who migrated from Ethiopia long, long time ago. However, after the victory of the barbarous white aryans over the peace-loving dark-skinned people of India (our glorious ancestors), the barbarous white aryans devised an evil system to keep their white folks away from the native dark and the subjugated masses. This is how the evil VARNA (CASTE) System came to be part of the living hell of India, and thereafter India also tragically became Caste India. To substantiate and permanently sustain this diabolical Caste System, the white aryans invented millions of gods and goddesses, most cruel karma theory, tons of superstitions, dogmas, fear-instilled blind faiths, all in the name of barbarous “brahminism”.
Later on, the obnoxious brahminism was and still is referred to as “hinduism” (the name given by the invading ignorant Muslims), but really and truly it is actually “Satanic Cult”, thus made the evil Caste System a divinely ordained evil system, and every other ‘cock and bull’ stories to make the subjugated and the original populations of India to believe (nay, brain washed by all the evil forces) and made them to follow those evil stories and to be the willing slaves of the vicious white aryans. This is the reason the evil Caste System is in fact referred to as “Sanctified Racism”. The white aryans also, in the meantime, invented numerous castes and thousands of sub-castes and the evil and unique practice of untouchability with all kinds of filthy ‘purity and pollution’ standards BY BIRTH (if anyone says that the evil Caste System is only designed for people to perform various jobs as per their abilities functional divisions, they cunningly call it -, then the world should ask a simple question to the barbarous hindus: if so, why the unfortunate people in Caste India are stratified and compartmentalized AT BIRTH and BY BIRTH into different graded inequality of thousands of evil castes and sub-castes, the most obnoxious and barbarous system of untouchability and a section of the indigenous people as Untouchables and Outcastes - out side the evil Caste System - the non-caste people and therefore non-hindus! - Can anyone know what a child can do or what its intellectual level is when that child is still in its infancy? But still the barbarous hindu Satanic Cult puts a stamp of an evil caste on that innocent child AT BIRTH itself). The Untouchables are so impure and that a hindu should not touch them and if he/she does, they will get ritually polluted. (Unless it is sexual - an absolute humiliation and open exhibition of total domination and authority over the masses, then there is no Untouchability!). The Untouchables were and still are permanently chained down with supposedly full approval of all the evil hindu gods and goddesses, and with absolutely no hope of this chain of evil slavery ever be broken as long as the hindu Satanic Cult is practiced, dignified and glorified in Caste India. This is the dirty history and also today’s reality of the evil Caste System of the hindu Satanic Cult.
This evil, most cruel Caste System of the barbarous hindu Satanic Cult is the longest existing evil racism in the history of mankind (over 3,500 years), and no one and no one at all in the world would say a word against this evil Caste System, including those famous human beings, Hon. Nelson Mandela of South Africa and late Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., of USA who fought against the other racist systems of the world. No attention outside Caste India about this evil Caste System is ever paid because the world is not allowed to hear the cries and screams of 300 plus million Dalits inside and outside the boundaries of Caste India, and the outside world is absolutely blind and refuses to think and analyze the existing facts in Caste India.
The author wrote two letters to the then President of United States, Mr. Bill Clinton, to raise the Dalits and the evil Caste issues in Caste India when he went to that country for a visit last year. What Bill Clinton actually did in Caste India is a sad reflection of what most every foreigner inside and outside Caste India does. Bill Clinton went to Caste India, wined, dinned and everything else, danced and came back to the United States like a mouthless, brainless and heartless individual without any honest and moral courage. Bill Clinton uttered not a word about the 300 plus million suffering Dalits, the evil Caste System or any of the gory human right violations in the most violent country in the world, Caste India. If Bill Clinton could act in such cowardice manner, one can easily imagine what other foreigners would do in Caste India! When anyone from anywhere in the world goes to Caste India, a caste-ridden hindu will meet this person, wine him/her, dine him/her, show them the beautiful Taj Mahal and other Muslim historical buildings and take them through other carefully orchestrated tour routes, and provide every other comforts, no matter what those might be, to the outsiders. Then, the foreign visitors quietly leave the venomous Caste India without ever asking any questions or making any observations of the evil Caste reality, but saying only all the nice things that their hosts, the evil caste hindus, want them to say, like brainless dummies. What a tragedy! The barbarous hindus would care less for the cries of the 300 plus million Dalits because their hindu Satanic Cult has completely brainwashed them to ignore or even enjoy the cries of Dalits because the life of a Dalit is far cheaper and meaningless than any animal in Caste India. In addition, the unfortunate Untouchables or Outcastes (DALITS - Broken, Crushed, Oppressed, Subjugated people; also it means ‘Rooted in the Soil’, meaning original or indigenous people) were and still are oppressed, suppressed, segregated, brutalized, persecuted, marginalized, burn them alive, force them to eat human waste and drink human urine, women folks paraded naked in public places, rape them in every way including gang rapes and butcher the Dalits at will and ease; forced the Dalits to perform all the degrading and demeaning tasks and heap every insult upon the Dalits, pure mental slavery, with no remorse and impunity whatsoever, but with every iron-fisted force of enslavement to make them completely loose all hopes of being human beings - the sadistic hindus perpetrating the sadistic inhuman atrocities on the hopeless and helpless Dalits; however, the barbarous hindus faithfully follow the orders of the teachings of the sadistic hindu Satanic Cult to make the lives of the Dalits hopeless, helpless and despair and immersed in a spiral life of every violence and agony. The 300 plus million Dalits have essentially turned out to be permanent, obedient, free and willing slaves of the barbarous hindus, enslavement of not only the body but much more dangerous and permanent mind or mental slavery; all because of the obnoxious teachings of the hindu Satanic Cult, and if the Dalits don’t obey the orders of the obnoxious hindus, the Dalits will be barbarically dealt with and finally see to it that they are butchered ‘like rabbits’ with every indignation known to man. The barbarous hindus brutalized and criminalized the Indian society as a whole through treachery and deceit. The barbarous hindus are also the looters, robbers, usurpers and the true gravediggers and grave robbers. The barbarous hindus also keep telling the world as well as the ignorant and illiterate Dalits that the Dalits are brainless, dull and have no intelligence, no merit what so ever and cannot function in any work of substance, and thus rob them of everything including their basic thinking power.
The Dalits are not allowed to
The Dalits are not allowed to read and write, as they are denied basic education with absolute pathetic living environment in segregated slums, no proper schools, abject poverty and every other disadvantage that make a person live like an animal. They cannot even go near the barbarous hindu gods’ temples, cannot carry arms, own property and the barbarous hindus enforced every conceivable restrictions on the Dalits (brutal penalty if they do not obey any of the evil caste rules) to be permanently ignorant and obedient and dumb slaves. Brutally massacring the Dalits is a pass time for the caste-infested hindus in Caste India, because no one will ever question these atrocities, no matter what the laws and rules have been written on paper in Caste India. Volumes have to be written to list all these brutal atrocities of heart rending persecutions committed on the poor, ignorant and innocent 300 plus million Dalits by the barbarous caste-ridden hindus in Caste India alone (Please see, for example, a book “Broken People - Caste Violence Against India’s Untouchables” by the Human Rights Watch, New York, USA, March 1999, on Dalit atrocities in Caste India). The caste-ridden hindus continue to perpetuate these evil and vicious inhuman crimes on Dalits with stony and hardened hearts and at free will even today because the caste hindu government of Caste India continues to protect these criminals, and the international community too behave like the three monkeys - Will Not See, Will Not Hear, and Will Not Speak, and keep adding fuel to the already violently burning flame. The barbarous caste-ridden Indian government might say that the Caste System may be an internal matter and purely a domestic problem, but if the 300 million Dalits would explode, the whole world will have to answer as the international community is as guilty or more guilty than those perpetrators of the vicious crimes on humanity in Caste India. The evil Caste System is more dangerous, barbarous, tyrannical, evil, and cruel than any other forms of racism - slavery and apartheid - the barbarous hindus have created an unpropitious and evil social system with frightening and fiery outcome because of its cunning and crafty manipulations and disguises, the most inhuman tragedy of any magnitude the world has ever seen. There could be slight modifications here in this explanation, but no one can deny the basic facts in these statements with honesty and human decency.
Can anyone in the world, including the barbarous hindus, say that a similar vicious system exists anywhere in the world? No, no parallel in the entire world! Caste India is the graveyard of every human right violations anyone can think of. The evil Caste System exists wherever the barbarous hindus live, whether it is in Caste India or anywhere else on this planet, as the barbarous hindus always carry their cruel and poisonous Caste System with them, as they are sick and they have only sick and cruel mind, conditioned by the barbarous hindu Satanic Cult. Look at the matrimonial columns in any newspapers wherever the barbarous hindus live, not only in Caste India but also in the US, where the barbarous hindus find matches for their children for marriage - any newspaper in any city; ‘India Abroad’ in New York City, ‘India Tribune’ in Chicago and ‘India West’ in San Francisco, for example where they specifically and strictly ask for their own Castes and sub-castes basis. So, how can the so-called hindu intellectuals and the social scientists deny the simple fact that the evil Caste System is at least as worst as racism, to put it in a simplistic way? Because, they are one hundred percent intellectually dishonest and that is the reason that they can lie through their noses and hide the bare facts about the evil Caste System.
The barbarous hindus have also been cheating the gullible and willingly ignorant people of the world to look at the other side and ignore when human right violations of the worst kind are occurring routinely and as a matter of fact in Caste India every day. It is also cheating the international community proclaiming that the Caste India is the ‘largest working democracy’ in the world, and the world seems to shamefully believe this blatant lie without ever asking a simple question as to what kind of democracy can survive in a country where 300 plus million Dalits are oppressed, segregated and exploited for the last 3,500 years and this still happily continues without any shred of shame. Should not the Dalits put the entire blame for their suffering on the international community for being reckless in not knowing as well as not wanting to know the facts about the evil Caste System of the hindu Satanic Cult and Caste India, the original home of racism in the world? What a shame! Only a person who does not understand or does not want to understand the true meaning of the word ‘democracy’ can say that the Caste India is a democracy. It is in fact a hollow and more so a fake democracy! Just because a country has political elections (that too, one needs to really study how many people are killed, not allowed to vote, purchase votes for few bucks or even one-time meal or absolute intimidation to vote for someone or be killed, or their women folks dishonored in every which way, their huts burnt, ballot boxes destroyed, the polling booths looted, polling officers hurt and killed all with full support of the ‘criminals in uniform’ Caste Indian police, in order to prevent the innocent and helpless masses from exercising even this basic right in a supposedly democratic country!) that does not mean that this country has democracy. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar has said long time ago that a country cannot have political democracy unless that country has absolute social democracy. Caste India does not even know what social democracy is all about because it has the most vicious and venomous Caste System, which is diagonally opposite to what social democracy, is all about. So how can democracy ever survive in a country, which is immersed in the evil hindu Caste System with ingrained social discrimination, oppression, exploitation and every other gory atrocity?
Instead of going through the definitions and descriptions of the words, caste and race, and their deeds, which could very well be termed as an academic exercise, let us see the implications and how racism and the evil Caste System were and are practiced in the world. Let us first take Racism - Slavery and Apartheid - are two examples of how the other forms of racism have been practiced in the world. Both were evil systems, and there is absolutely no doubt about this fact! But, let us go into the details of these two evil systems and then compare this racism with the most evil mother of all racisms, the poisonous Caste System: It is also a fact that these two evil Racisms are in general no more in practice in the world, except in small pockets of areas in the world where still few bigoted people (always) live! Now, let us ask a simple question: How were these racisms practiced, and how and why they disappeared from the face of this planet?
Racism is purely, simply and primarily an economically based system; extracting free labor from the slaves, using every available cruel torture mechanisms to achieve this goal, merely a physical system and not a direct mental system. This is the reason why the slaves were allowed into their masters’ homes to cook, to rear their children, to help with every house-hold chores of the masters including helping the daily needs of their (white) women, and in many instances the slave women were forced into pleasing the sexual desires of the male masters. Instances where the Black men were forced to please sexual pleasures of the white master women too are in record. In essence, the slaves had free access to every nook and corner of the slave masters’ houses and they can touch each other, sit next to each other, etc. The slaves were told that they were slaves because of their skin color and nothing else. No ‘untouchability’ was ever part of these evil racisms. Apparently, no god and no religion (would not be a religion, if so!) played any part in these evil racisms. I am not anyway implying here that these racisms are better and tolerable systems. No, they are evil and I am so glad that they have disappeared from the face of this earth, thanks and glory to our own Black Brothers and Sisters in the United States of America, South Africa and in other parts of the world where our Brothers and Sisters gave their lives and underwent all forms of unbearable miseries to save our future generations from the evil teeth of racism. We should definitely mention here those glorious and fair-minded white folks who worked with and helped our Black Brothers and Sisters for the destruction of the evil racisms.
Now, let us look at the vicious Caste System of barbarous hindu brahminism in depth. First of all, this evil system was supposed to have created by some imaginary gods and goddesses, the so-called ‘karma’ theory where the entire blame for being the slaves - Untouchables and Outcastes, Dalits - were and are still squarely put on the victims for their sufferings. The evil Caste System was created by the racist white aryans for the first time in the world (founding fathers of RACISM in the world), and to protect and perpetuate this racism, i. e. evil Caste System, they created the barbarous Satanic Cult, hinduism, and put all the responsibilities of protecting and preserving all the evil teachings of the vicious Caste System on the imaginary millions of their gods and goddesses. Dogs and cats can freely move around into the houses of the caste-ridden hindus, but the Dalits cannot dare go into the homes of the barbarous caste hindus, nay, they cannot even go to the streets where the evil caste-infested hindus live. The slaves cannot even go near the temples where millions of hindu gods and goddesses who supposedly created the evil Caste System presumably live. Their gods and goddesses too adhere strictly to the evil Caste System and untouchability. The most heinous practice and the highest form of injustice of the Caste System is Untouchability. Not only the slaves were and are the Untouchables, but they are also Unseeables, even Unapproachables and Unshadowables and in every other inhuman ways the barbarous hindus torture the innocent millions of the Untouchables and Outcastes (Dalits). The Dalits still cannot wear shoes in the presence of the caste-infested hindus (the Dalits have to take their shoes in their hands if they see any caste-ridden hindu), cannot take water from the same well where from the barbarous caste hindus take water, and cannot sit while the caste hindus pass by, cannot ride a bicycle, cannot use an umbrella in the presence of caste hindus, in some parts of Caste India, a newly married Dalit bride will be forcefully deflowered by the obnoxious caste hindus, to name just a few cruel injustices, humiliations and indignations. Even though they are Untouchables, their women folks will become Touchables when it comes to quenching the sexual pleasures of these wild hindu beasts. For these purposes, there is absolutely no evil caste system and untouchability because they could show their power over the Dalits by these heinous acts! The same goes for the obnoxious “Satanic Cult, HINDU TEMPLE PROSTITUTION” - evil Devadasi System where young Dalit girls are forced into prostitution inside the evil hindu temples. Another gory discovery and strict implementation of the evil Caste System and the hindu Satanic Cult is “MANUAL SCAVENGING” - cleaning dry latrines and carrying human wastes on the heads - is another most dehumanizing and degrading inhuman practice imposed on the Dalits by the barbarous caste-ridden hindus with the full support of the caste-infested hindu government through the evil Caste System and the practice of the most cruel form of untouchability. If you don’t call Caste India the world’s most violent and blood dripping country on earth, then what is your explanations?
The above was written by a
The above was written by a Christian and I need my scholastic Hindu idol continuum to please defend Hinduism against these evil Christians. I know you can defend Hinduism because I surely can't. These evil Christians are killing me.
Faithfreedom67 is returning
Faithfreedom67 is returning to his old roots---Old testament. BTW, he is very good at Ctl C+Ctr V job. Wow.... Now here is an article written by a Chritian on the cunnings methods to convert Hindus students on campus in America. http://www.intervarsity.org/ism/article/7624 ; Deception, however, is not working for Christians who practice that. Some of the tricks mentioned in the articles are amazing. Faithfreedom67, if your scriptures are improved in future, let me know; I shall be the first to convert
Faithfreedom copied n pasted
Faithfreedom copied n pasted this:nomadic and barbaric thugs, invaded India (The glorious Indus Valley Civilization) which had been inhabited by the dark-skinned people who migrated from Ethiopia long, long time ago......
>> According to Aryan invasion theory (remember it is just a theory without any archeological evidence), nomadic Aryans migrated to India around 1500 BC, composed esteemed vedas and left India. Then Buddha appeared on scene in 500 BC. Now I shall provide a solid evidence to show that Mahabharat war happened in 3129 BC (http://www.vedicastronomy.net/mahabharatha.htm).
So faithfreedom67, according to your pet Aryan theory, Mahabharat should have happened after 1500 BC. But, by crosschecking verses about the planetary position using LodeStar software (done by a heathen, Indian scientist that works for NASA) you find that it indeed happened in 3129 BC. Could you please use your brain to disprove this? If not, just like APOSTATE and READER, you will fold your tail and disappear without any argument. I am waiting for you to use your Biblical brain to disprove this. Common champ, give it a go.....
Hey how you doing my Hindu
Hey how you doing my Hindu brother silenzer? I think you're absolutely right my Hindu brother. Since this Christian's theory is faulty due to its questionable given year, Hindu Caste system has to be non-existent. Thank you very much for this intelligent response my Hindu brother. I know I can trust my Hindu brothers here.
It is good to know that
It is good to know that freedomfighter67 couldn't defend his pet Aryan invasion theory. I knew you don't have brains to do that. I can understand your plight. I hope you left that semitic religion because it preaches the earth was created in 4004 BC. I hope you improve your knowledge and contribute something good to mankind.
The above was written by a
Philip Sanez You are
Philip Sanez
You are defending Teresa. Why you are not even an Indian, what do you know about that woman. It sounds just like the Muhammadans say the how dare you speak aganist Muhammad. Mother Terresa, used to frequently refer to natives as Heathens. Isn't that reason enough for us Indian to be pissed with that woman whom you worship. You said that you feed and clothe the Hindus and Muslims. My friend the Hindus and Muslims are there in your country bcos you need them as they need the Dollars. Most of the Hindus from India are faring very well in your countries. Its a pity that you fail to recognize their contributions to your societies, because you feel that they are not good enough.
Stupidity knowns no bounds, there are stupid people in all races and religious denominations. There is no denying this fact. Islam is dangerous because it has the ability to corrupt people'sminds to the level that they become terrorists. I dont think others religions preach the concept of Jihad or hatred. However that does not mean that there are no loonies who follow that religion or misunderstand their texts inorder to do some really stupid things in the name of their Lord.
You judge Christians by what you know of Europeans. Come to India and I will show you how the very same peace loving Christians abuse the locals deities, call the natives Heathens, abuse their culture and traditions and call them Satanic.
Philip, we dont love each other. Lets not pretend to do so either. However the point here is that we have a big problem here. The problem is Islam. If we take our eyes off our Aim, only our enemies have to gain. We we start fighting with each other we will not end up becoming great allies in this war against Islamic extremism.
The same goes for Continunum, who is my fellow countryman. Let us try to focus our energies on the matter at hand and not distort our vision from what and who our real enemy is. Yes Christians have commited the most Barabric acts in the past. But do you see the Christians doing the same today. They dont, many of them have even appologised for what they did in the past to various cultures. Did the Muslims ever appologise, will they ever appologise. One step at a time my friend, one step at a time. Yes Christians like to prothysize their faith. Its their right. What stops you from doing the same. Whhether you are an Atheist or a Hindu you are free to preach what you believe in. Same goes for the Christians or the Buddhists or anyone else. The problem at hand is Islam. If we disperse our energies fighting our own allies in this war, our enemy is bound to win.
If we fight then who gains in this?
To Ibrahim: You have given a
To Ibrahim: You have given a wonderful reply to Philip Sanez. He must read it carefully to analyse what blunder he is committing. The real enemy throughout the world is Islam. However, in India, Thailand, Srilanka and other "HEATHEN" countries, it is Islam and Christianity. I donno why the hell they read stupid verses from their texts and destroy places of worship of others. We don't have objections for them to preach their religion, BUT, IT SHOULD NOT BE AT THE COST OF DEMONISING LOCAL CULTURE, CIVILIZATION, AND RELIGION. When Islam and Christianity spread their faiths they do it by telling horrible lies. Swamy Vivekananda was the first Hindu saint to have visited the western world in the last 150 yrs. He didn't go there on his own, but was invited by the World Religion Congress in 1893 in Chicago. Listen to his great speech (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lxUzKoIt5aM). After that many westerners such as Thoreau became interested in Vedanta and translated them.
Dear Silenzer My reply was
Dear Silenzer
My reply was not only for Philip Sanez or Continunum, it was diredted at all those people who criticize each others faiths and practices. Its a fact that we dont love each other. We dont need to.
FFI or the message is not about loving each other. Maybe that too can come, but it will much later perhaps not in our lifetimes. However all of us irrespective of what or who we believe or disbelieve in have a common enemy at hand. Its Islam. Islam is not only the enemy of the non-muslims, but of the Muslims too. When a mother happily sends her son on a suicide mission, there is something terribly wrong! We dont see Christians, or buddhists, or Hindus or any one else, going around and blasting themslves in the name of their God or deity, do we. Only Muslim do that, and they do it for a reason. They are following the command of their deity by killing others. Our job as free humans is to educate others of the ill effects of Islam, and not fight amogst ourselves. If we fight among ourselves then we dont have a message to give to the Muslims. I am not asking for any members on the FFI forum to love each others religion or believe that all ways are equal. You can believe in whatever you like, provided your beliefs don't hurt others.
My friend Ibrahim, we don't
My friend Ibrahim, we don't need poor people to come to this country, but we take them anyway. Some of you have talked about our so-called untouchables. Friend, did you know that anyone in my country who doesn't work receives a government check at the expense of the tax payers who are mostly Christians. It's true.And did you know that even the so-called homeless receive a welfare check. And did you know that these so-called homeless are homeless because they choose to do so? It's true. These so-called homeless could live in a half-way home if they wanted to, but refuse because they don't want to live with others. Okay, about the Muslims being the main enemy. Maybe you haven't been reading my letters. Over and over I have said that we should not deviate from our main objective, to fight against the cruelties of Islam. But over and over some writers here keep going to the distant past pointing out the crimes that happend so long ago. So why do your writers keep pointing out the crimes of the distant past when we cannot do anything about it? How can we alter the distant past? We can't but your friends keep going back to very old history? Why? We can alter the crimes of today if we all pool our energies for that cause. About my hating others. Sir, I don't believe that I know how to hate others. I'm an authentic Christian. That means that I'm very easy to get along with. The choice is yours. Be nice and I will allow you to be my friend. Don't worry about me. Like I said, it's very easy to get along with me. About Mother Teresa. Heathen might have meant something else to her, if indeed she used that word. Did you ever hear her say "heathen"? Your letter was the only letter that caught my eye. I skipped all the others because I'm sure they were dealing with ancient history. Besides, I don't like rants. Now tell me, do you hate Christians? I don't hate anyone of other religions. Be nice and we can be friends. May God bless you Ibrahim.
Dear Ibrahim, I reread your
Dear Ibrahim, I reread your letter above. Why can't you love everyone regardless of his religion. What's your problem? Why can't you be my friend? Apparently, you're not a Christian. A Christian with the grace of God can love everyone. Don't forget that our religion, which I take seriously, teaches us: "Love your enemy." Do good to those who persecute you." Why don't you ask God to lead you to the true faith? Have you ever done that? I'm a Catholic. I cannot malign anyone. Some of your friends are very evil. I can see that. I know that some of your friends hate Jesus. During Jesus' time there were people like some of your friends. That's why Jesus was crucified. They hated Jesus because of His of his stringent message. Thank you for being sincere when you said that you don't like me. That's okay friend. Practice the message of Jesus, and I'm sure we could become authentic friends. Did you resent it when I said to "practice the message of Jesus"? If you did, then you have a problem. Ask God to soften your heart, and you'll see how much easier it is to get along with others.
Oh, by the way, Ibrahim,
Oh, by the way, Ibrahim, remember when you said that we needn't the poor to help us? I said that we don't need them, and it's true. Did you know that sometimes the poor come here only to collect welfare checks. It's true. And did you know that we are being swamped by illegal immagrants? And did you know that when some of them become very sick or get hurt through their own fault, we pay their medical bills at the expense of the taxpayers who are mostly Christian. Ibrahim, let me say it again, we don't need poor people to come here, but many of them are breaking their necks to get here. There are about 14 million illegal immigrant now, and some of them are on welfare at the expense of the taxpayers, who are mostly Christian.
Philip I understand that you
Philip I understand that you dont want poor people in your country. I have no objections to that. Even we Indians are sick and tired of feeding the Bangladeshis who are mostly illegal immigrants in our country. I am not in favour of immigration in the first place. This is why I left a Western Country where I was staying earlier before. I really dont feel that refugees and people who dont have any skills have a right to migrate to others countries where they demand to be fed and pampered by the natives. You have every right to oppose these immigrations into your lands. I understand how you feel, as my land as been invaded twice. Once by the Muslims and then by the Christians Europeans. I understand the pain you feel when you see underserving people occupy your land. However the majority of Hindus who migrate to the West are neither poor nor are they uneducated, lacking skills. I can count many names of Indians who have made great countless contributions to the West in terms of economy as well intellectual contributions in the realm of science, literature, buisness, etc. These people wear their Americaness or Britishness on their hat. They feel proud to be Americans. Isnt America the land which is formed by immigrants. Or does the colour of the sking bother you Philip? There are plently of American Indians specifically Hindus who consider being American their only identity. Being an ethnic Indian comes second for these people. These people migrate to foreign shores because they lacked opportunities in the past. However this trend is reversing, atleast in my country. My Indians are returning to India, in view of changing economic conditions. I hope there comes a time that no India has to leave his country for any purpose than pleasure.
Do you know I hate colonization, whether its through immigration or through forceful occupation of land, or through prothysing a foreign faith in someone else's land. And I am not hippocritical, it goes both ways.
Now as for why we cant be friends. To be friends one needs to have a few things in common. While we can make superb Allies, friendship is something different Philip. Friendships are based on mutual common appreciation of culture. When you call my people poor and feeding on your money, its a little difficult for me to be friends with you Philip. Yes I know there are some Indians too who do stupid stuff. But why are you painting all Indians in the same colour. I too hate these buggers who go to Western lands begging for alms. However most of them are not like that. Now then Philip, it really does not matter to me if you are a Christian, or a Buddhist. All that matters to me is that Islam is a deadly religion which needs to be fought. If you wish to be on the side of truth and freedom, I am your ally. I will stand besides you through thick and thin. That is what matters right now.
Philip, every religion except
Philip, every religion except Islam teaches others to love Humans. Eastern philosophies extend that to the level of loving all living creatures. While you love all being a Christian, Ivan the Terrible killed so many Tartars in the name of his Lord and converted them to Christianity. Those Spainish people who killed the Indians were also Christians. Being a christian is no guarentee that you will love others. Ofcourse I am not saying that Ivan was following Jesus when the slaughtered those Tartars. But then again can you guanrantee that every Christian is like you?
How you feel about others has more to do with the way you were brought up rather than the religion you follow, ofcourse except if you were a raised in a believeing Muslim family. There are so many Jains who would not even hurt a fly. Buddhists would not even think of harming a human. So what the big deal Philip. Yours is not the only religion that preaches love and brotherhood.
Ibrahim, well said. Remember
Ibrahim, well said. Remember that atheists and hindus started this hate game. FFI is for criticizing Islam, period. The fact that they can't hold their grudges and utilize every opportunity they get to spite their venom against christianity, is beyond me. However, I think, we as christians can help them to hold their venoms. Just by stopping preaching them about Jesus in this site. I think they hate christianity so much so that mentioning the name Jesus is simply provokative to them. So I beg non muslim here to stop promoting his/her belief (I was one of them) rather focus attacking our common enemies, allah, muhammad, suicide bombers, mullahs, mosques, quran, ahadiths, kaaba, mecca, medina, al aqsa, wahhabi, zakir naik, etc!
One more thing Philip, I dont
One more thing Philip, I dont hate Christians and I dont hate Muslims. If I say that I hate Muslims I would be including a huge extended famil;y of mine in that hatred. Just because I dont hate some one does not mean I need to love them. Do you know why Philip, because that is the law of my ancestors. We Indians dont hate anyone. Had we been hateful, there would not have been Christians and Jews and Bahais and mebers of foreign faiths living amogst us since the last 2000 years. Every community came with nothing to my land and prospered while living as equal citizens. How old is the concept of democracy and Freedom of religion in the Western world Philip, 200 or 100 years. We Indians have been praticing it since the last thousands of years because its ingrained in our psyche. But now things are going out of control, foreigners wsih to subjugate my country using religion as a tool. Native Indian converts to desert faiths are becoming antagonistic to their nation because of the the hateful sermons that tell them that your ancestors are worthy of ridicule. In a senario like this its a bit difficult to keep the calmn.
You say that you dont hate anyone and at the same time you say that you hate the poor who come to your country. Isnt this hippocracy?
Now as far Teresa is concerned. She was no saint for me. All her operations were duly finaced by the Heathens of India partially with an abundant help from the Vatican. She was not out here to help the people. She had a mission to reap souls in India. This she did quite well. Tell me something the are'nt there street kids in western countries who are Christians? In NY alone there are so many people who live on the streets. Why dont these missionaries help them. OR are they done with their agenda there?
So many Black Christians in Africa die out of poverty in Africa. Look at the Philippines. Look at the condition of the people living there. Why dont these missionaries help them? Or are they only concerened with reaping souls? Today the Christian chruch in places like Mizoram where Christians are the majority tells people who they should vote for, isnt this a great way of ovetaking India's politics. Isnt this coloniozation. A place like Goa, where again the majority are Christians have in the past under the Portugese rule demolished more temples than one can count. Even today a non Christian cannot live in a Christian locality in Goa. Do you know why, because the peace loving Christians wont sell the bloody heathens their land. In a city like Mumbai a Hindu cannot have his religious celebrations because the Christians say that this is Devil worship. Today we Indians are becoming stangers in our own land. Thanks to the efforts of the Peace loving European Christian Missionaries and the Sayyed Mullahs who think they are Arabs. Indian is being divided by forces ruling from outside.
Thanks to our charity that we showed to the those poor immigrants, today they have successfully divided our people.
Proud Christian How do you
Proud Christian
How do you know that those claiming to be Atheists really are not Muslims? How do you know that?
Ibrahim, I don't think you
Ibrahim, I don't think you have read my letters very well. I said that I don't hate anyone. Now, what does skin color have to do with my religion? And there you go again, bringing up ancient history, talking about Ivan the Terrible, et cetera. Have many times do I have to say that we should forget ancient history, and try to solve the problems at hand? Who cares about Ivan the Terrible, who didn't practice Christianity? Again, I ask, how are we going to solve the problems at hand if are always discussing ancient history? It's incredible. About Mother Teresa, I asked you if you heard her say "heathen"? Be honest. Okay, I looked up heathen in the dictionary. HEATHEN --- "One who belongs to a tribe or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism or Christianity." If I know Mother Teresa, that's exactly what she had in her mind when or if she used the word "heathen." Ibrahim, always give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't prejudge. Wait and see if the person is truly evil before you say anything. Pray for discernment. Why do you and your friends continually bring up ancient history when at this very hour little girls are being raped by old Muslim male perverts with inpunity. Remember that this could happen in your country if you don't get busy and do something NOW. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I SAID TO FORGET THE PAST? And how many times have I mentioned that there are authentic Christians and hypocrites? Don't you have hyprocrites in your religion? I'm not ashamed of the truth. Yes, we have hypocrites in our religion. We have pretenders. Don't you have them? Aren't there any poor people in your country? What's wrong if I say that there are people in your country that need help? I don't know about you, but I enjoy helping others, no matter who it is. Why did so many in your country hate Mother Teresa? She was a living saint, and she never meant any harm on anyone. One more thing, millions of immigrants here have children. These children get free education and a free lunch every school day. We Christians don't mind helping others. But we do mind when the same people we are helping are biting our hands. That's our main complaint. May God bless you Ibrahim. Pray for discernment. Don't prejudge. Check out the person well before you decide to be or not to be friends.
Before I forget, Philip let
Before I forget, Philip let me add a few more things here. A few months back there was a huge controversy in North Indian Chruch of Believers regarding Christians going Yoga classes. They made the absurd claim that these Christians were being led into infidelity by the Yoga masters because they were using Vedic chants. First of all these Yoga masters dont go door to door selling their religion as members of certain other faiths do. They dont ask people to buy their God with the cliams that he cures all sorts of diseases. Secondly Yoga is an Vedic tradition. If the Chritian chuch has a problem with that then they can ask Christians to stop going there. Secondly even if the Yoga masters are preachig their religion somehow. Why does the Chruch get pissed? Or is prostysing the exclusive preserve of certain groups? In the 60's there was a hue and cry over people converting to Hare Krishna, who according to me are nothing more than cults and dont represent the Vedic culture at all.
The Priest who appreared on TV said that the Yoga maters should use Quranic Nasheeds instead of the Vedic chants because according to him a desert fools creation is better than the creation of Indian scholars. So his hatred for the native culture was apparent. He went on to justify Islam in his hatred for Indian culture. In his hatred he forgot that justifying Islam means that he believes in its message and hence the pupose of Chritianity is redundant.
I have yet to hear any sort of condemnation of any terrorist strike by the Christian Chruch in India. Since the last 1400 years Islam and Christianity have been opossing each other, each one claiming that they have the true message of God. Yet the Christian Chruch chooses to sleep with the Devil. In case of a terrorist strike they ask the Government to introduce a quota for minorities. Isnt this working their own selfish interets? Tell me now Philip after all this why should I love you or be your friend when you dont speak against your Chruch. I have for one spoken against my ex-Faith as well as the incorrect practices and customs in Hindus. Can you do the same, Philip. Can we expect a condemnation of the the Christian missionary work and the Christian chruch in India?
Philip for one, I dont follow
Philip for one, I dont follow any religion. I think you have not read what I wrote properly. I adressed a whole lot of issues in my post. Ranging from USA to Africa and Phillipines. Sadly you choose only to comment on Teresa. Free education huh! there are so many Non-Christian organisation who are doing better work than her. But they will never get the Media attention just because they are not Christians. Westren Media does not consider it good stuff! And who are my friends. I have only one friend in this Forum and he is Christian.
Philip I am not judging you. Now who is judging whom?
Ibrhim, I have been to New
Ibrhim, I have been to New York several times. I didn't see any poor children there. Remember that in our country even poor people get a welfare check every month. Ibrahim, do "peace loving Christians" have to sell their land? About Mother Teresa again, she was not from my country. I believe that a person can go to any country that he wants if he is welcomed. Apparently, Mother Teresa was allowed to live in India. That's why she stayed there and even became a citizen of that country. Good night, it's 2:40 in the morning here.
You ealier accused me and my
You ealier accused me and my so called friends that they are evil. Are they evil beucause they dont belive in your God. You dont belive in theirs either. In all probablities you call them false Gods. So are you evil?
No your not Evil. Because you have been taught to worship Jesus as your God since you were a kid. There is nothing wrong with that. Even if you think that others worship false Gods that's cool. Cos you have every right to believe in what you like. Perhaps you should not extend your beliefs to others. What Christians understand as evil might not be evil to others. Just as Muslim think that the Kuffar are evil for hating Muhammad. I ask you, Philip, since I hate what Muhammad did, do I become Evil.
Now, Philip you asked me If I had heard Teresa say the word Heathen. Did you see Jesus dying on the cross. How do you know that it is a fabricated story. How do you know that Judas was the guy who sold out on Jesus. It could very well be a myth perpetuated by some believers inorder to find a scapegoat. Dont tell me that you love Judas for what he according to you did? Or do you Philip.
Ibrahim, don't forget that
Ibrahim, don't forget that you have the Catholic Church and then you have Protestants. The many Protestant faiths have conflicting beliefs. My experience is that fundamental Christians sometimes get out of hand. Of course I'm against that. I didn't say that you prejudged. I am giving advice not to prejudge. However, you went ballistic because Mother Teresa called some folks "heathens." To her "heathen" was a person that did not accept the God of Christians and Jews. Okay, let's start fighting Muslims before they run over you.
Phillip Saenz I think you do
Phillip Saenz I think you do not understand Ibrahim. Ibrahim says Islam need to be defeated not because it is a false religion but rather because it inspires its followers to be violent and as such it harms us. Islam may be false as Catholicism may be false as evangelical christianity may be false as hinduism may be false as atheism may be false! While we all recognize that religious matters are issues of personal convictions, it is ironic for muhammadans to think they got absolute truth as to reach a point of killing apostates and critics. This is his concern and this is the concern of FFI!