The Quranic Sharia Laws

If Sharia law interferes with the basic human liberties, how come so many muslims living in Islamic country survived for 1400 years? If Sharia law puts a woman as second class citizens, how come so many women still have the guts to say publicly..."hey, i am a woman and am proud to be called a muslim" ?

Were they just trying to hide the truth? Sugarcoating it to hide it's real taste? I was just wondering Mr Kammuna.

Muslims dont have the saneness to refuse the Sharia Laws. America had the Laws of Sharia in JIM CROW and segregation Laws of America. Sharia was sent along with the slaves from Africa. Muslims told East African Muslims that they could avoid slavery if they captured and sold non-Muslims blacks in Africa to Europeans. Since allah created Africans black to be slaves to white people, the African black slaves felt good about selling other blacks. Today, African blacks are doing the same stupid crap as they did in the 15th century. They stated selling other blacks before Islam and after Muhammad they both got rich.
The tribe of the Luo in Kenya had a good time selling other blacks as slaves. Reparation from Arab and African blacks is due. Africans need to read in 2009 and send the Islamic parade of slavers out of the continent. From North African Berbers, the East African Zenj, to the West African tribes and the South African
Hindu who stood with Mahatma Gandi against the Zulu and encouraged the Apartheid as they had in India. Sharia is Satanic sura 3:54. The African moon god NOD is the same as Allah of Islam and NOD never said kill Arabs.

#1 Women accept being beaten and told they are the best in the world and believe it. Allah said he created Muslim women STUPID Tabari 1:280 and they are nothing but titlths for sex any way the man wants. Women remain inside Islam hoping for the men to change. No man will change when it gives men the right to screw women and girls and boys and kill and get away with it. Women have their vaginas cut out. Why did allah make vaginas in the first place if they were useless?

What a great creed for a dictator! With its emphasis on unthinking obedience to Islamic authority, jerks like Ahmedinejad have it made.

Make more movies like 'Stoning of Shorya M', which shows more beauties of the Sharia. The non-muslims have to see and feel this sharia , where politicians are accomodating it in civilized world. The western world have got so much freedom that they have become careless about this creeping sharia, which if not stopped will snatch the most basic of the freedom.

Some theme can be honour killing, acid throw to girls who refuse to wear burga, raping and atrocities on wife. Infact movies on Ayan hirsi Ali, wafa Sultan, taslima nasrin would be a good start.
In civilized world , there should not be special consession to some groups (by the way only muslims).

The women, as are the dhimmi who have lived under these rules for generations, have what we call 'Stockholm syndrome'. Some of them are so browbeaten, so brainwashed, that they know no better.

The real problems are the muslims here in our countries who enjoy real freedoms and then do nothing to change Sharia laws and in fact want them to be enforced and defend them as 'allahs laws' that are far superior to man's laws (big laugh). Considering their god was only Muhammed trying to get his pathetic behind worshipped as a god. And another problem are the stupidity of countries, and even businesses in some cases (eg: AIG - a company that took our tax monies and caters to a 'religious' group), who adopt sharia.

They willingly adopt something they know NOTHING about. It is even more inexcusable for our Western politcal and judicial systems to even consider adopting them.

Europe is fastly becoming a lost cause. I can hardly wait until they have sat by for decades and realize that they have a worse problem than Hitler ever was. By the time they start their crying for help we will have become more like them (socialism stripping our military and security), and supporting muslim nations, and won't be able to help them because we will also have a very, big problem. Especially since we are bringing in even more questionable muslims from the Middle East.

Europeans have gotten so they expect others to save them and I will lay down a bet that it won't happen again the way things are going in the USA. Don't look to Canada - their tank don't go past their borders, and Mexico - their military (8th largest military in the world) is too busy at our borders shooting 'em up.

Raisin head said, 'Why did allah make vaginas in the first place if they were useless?'

My answer: Some of the people with the biggest problems with women have been paranoid narcissists who are thugs that have taken power. Hitler and STalin being a couple of examples that can be compared to Muhammed.

All three had problems with women, with Muhammed being the one who made women one of his 'enemies'. The other two made kept the women, for the most part, out of their list of enemies. But Hitler never did have a good relationship with a woman, and Stalin beat, berated, and even killed his own women. Hitler and STalin had terrible fathers and overly loved their mothers. Muhammed's mother died and was made a spoiled brat by his uncle (according to the Islamic texts). He cursed his mother at her grave. And he was also rejected by his wet nurse who gave him back to his mother (who died when he was about 5) because he had fits.

These three notables always had 'enemies'. Hitler came to power and one of the first things he did was to have his SS and Gestapo eliminate the people that he thought were his enemies. Stalin rose to power eliminating people and also afterwards, that he thought were his enemies. Both made the Jews their enemies (Stalin died before he was able to send the Jews off to Siberia and start pogroms to eliminate them as Hitler did).

What did Muhammed do? over and above making Jews and Christians - any unbeliever who he called apes, pigs, polytheists, lower than dirt and urine, kufirs and infidels - he made women an enemy too.

But, he saw a use for them (duh - the guy was a lecher), because he needed his 'relief' and knew that his men would need them too. He would say it was ok to rape the slaves women and children (which included little boys), take little children as wives, etc. But, he also made sure that his god said it was ok to beat them, stone them and do whatever to them just to make sure they were subdued. It was ok with Allah.

Muhammed had little care for a lawful marriage or lusting after his stepson's wife! All he did was to say it was ok with Allah that he take her and eventually the men succombed to his wishes.

Maybe they realized that Muhammed was capable of torturing and killing them too!

Hmm, sharia law. If europe start to adopt that, who wants to go to europe anymore. All the woman must wear hijab/burqa/whatever and stay at home, sewing, breeding children for future jihad, serving her husband (wether she is in the mood or not - angel's curse if she refused). Just imagine that horror, europe back to the dark ages.

Editor's Note:
Readers, please refrain from using foul language in your comments. I will start deleting all comments if abusive language persists. Thank you

Here u can see mohammad xxxxxx killing a girl for having a Sunni Boyfriend and i really feel very very very said.

I want to ask those mohammad xxxxxx what was her crime

http://www.qubetv.tv/videos/detail/292

Here u can find numbers of videos which shows the true Islam which is a religion of peace and these mohammad xxxxxx following the words of GREAT SATAN ( allah )

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/videos/101/brutal-rituals-in-the-name-...

Editor

Ok man point taken

Great article Ibn.
Your analysis is superb.

Its a good article, but please tell me something that I did not know before. And to Moo. We europeans will never submit to islam whatever you amerikans think, please enlighten yourself, you really need it

13, tarzan - please show us evidence that you are doing anything. We only see that anyone who speaks against islam is either fined, banned from entering the country, or the police are afraid of entering the islamic areas that they have carved out for themselves while crimes of rape, and muggings have increased.

Please give us a website that comes from Europe that is 'fighting' islam before it becomes violent? I would love to read it, and read it on a daily basis to keep on on the news of what Europeans (including the UK, if possible) are doing.

I only see them accepting sharia more and more, allowing them to congregate into areas that have become 'no go' sections for any unbeliever while they EXPECT to be completely free and allowed to do whatever they will - and that includes rioting and destroying things.

tarzan, go read this article just put out today: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026902.php

There are also some books that talk about the problems in Europe that most Europeans are either ignoring, or helping along (they should learn a bit of history and go check out what happened in lebanon when they allowed more and more Muslims into their country - it is a sty of violence against the residents). Eurabia, While europe Slept, and Menace in Europe to name a few.

Wake up.

Why are my posts awaiting moderation? Did I do a dirty word? Or what else did I do that I wasn't aware of?

#14 lET THE mUSLIM LIVE AND DIE IN THEIR OWN ENCLAVES. When the women gwt tired of being aNIMALS THEN THEY WILL ASK FOR HELP. lET THE BUY THEIR OWN CRAP AND IF WELFARE COMES IT COMS FROM THEIR OWN KIND. No infidel should have to pay for welfare of no Muslim and then the Mussies want to kill us. Let thed Muslims feed themselves and employ each other. Let the Muslims educated each other if they want to otherwise let them revert to poverty. America and Uk saved europe twice now Europe needs to save themselves, America has to save America. Jimmy CaRTER THE PEANUT FARMER started letting arabic Muslims in the USA to counter the NOI. Then the Arabickind overran the black Muslims who said the white man is the DEVIL. Where is DRACULA?

tarzan:

Its a good article, but please tell me something that I did not know before. And to Moo. We europeans will never submit to islam whatever you amerikans think, please enlighten yourself, you really need it

I say:

Most likely what will happen to you Europeans is that Islam will take over and some europeans will become freedom fighters and oppose Islam like what happened during WWII when the nazis took control of several European countries. Like WWII what is most likely to happen is that America will have to save Europe from the Muslims.

tarzan if you don't like my scenario then please do not try to argue with me about this. Instead you and your European friends need to get off their ass and do something about. To be honest with you, I think Europe has become way too liberal in it's pacifist beliefs and too dependent on the government to do something about this ( and alot of the people who run European governments have bought into this multiculti and politically correct belief system ). Also in order to effectively to fight Islam there must be something to unite the Europeans like they did during the crusades, something worth fighting for and moral relativism is not something worth fighting for. Geert Wilders recognized this and that is why he started his own party. Other then this Europe seems to have fallen asleep.

Dear Saleem
Thank you brother for your kind words. i appreciate that.

Dear MSU,
Is there any fault in my analysis brother/sister? If you just support Sahria, that is fine. I know of at least four places i strongly recommend you go and live there (for good!!): Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan. Those countries are beacons for Sharia and civilized society.So, what say you? I'll even chip in some money for your one-way plane ticket.
But, deep inside, I think you agree with my views, and just left your comment to start an argument.
Peace my friend.

RIGHT ON MARIE!

I have actually heard from some other Europeans - they are either in total appeasement mode enjoying and wallowing in their ignorance of islam and what it brings, or they are 'what can I do?', 'we don't trust anyone (when I say start a grass roots movement!)', or there is just more garbage and excuses from them.

They certainly have no problem telling us that we are islamophobes! I don't believe that having a healthy knowledge of what islam brings as being a 'phobe' of any kind. When a political movement under the disguise of a religion - basically them telling us they want us dead, or subjugated - as being a 'phobe' of any kind.

If they would have listened to Hitler and read his Mein Kampf they wouldn't have had to deal with Hitler. Now they are faced with Islam and they just can't seem to muster up what it takes to inform themselves once again! And it isn't like islam is just starting fresh - it has been going on strong for quite some time!

But, hey - we saw what they did with Hitler! How many of them just fearfully went to his parades, or speeches, and blindly raised their hands and shouted 'heil'!? Then tiptoeing home and hoping that they would not be affected by him. Well, this time it won't escape them either.

R_Not:

RIGHT ON MARIE!

I have actually heard from some other Europeans – they are either in total appeasement mode enjoying and wallowing in their ignorance of islam and what it brings, or they are ‘what can I do?’, ‘we don’t trust anyone (when I say start a grass roots movement!)’, or there is just more garbage and excuses from them.

Most of the anti-islam websites and criticism is coming from the U.S. We Americans still value our freedom and independence. In Europe this value seems to have watered down, but that is what happens when people depend too much on the government have been heavily indoctrinated with Multiculturalism and diversity. Also some European countries have laid back attitudes.

well, well, well - here is some more from the Europeans that seems to have escaped all the news outlets here. Heaven forbid that we start letting our citizens know what happens when a muslim community grows!

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/07/muslims-rioting-again.html

OH! And they call them 'Riotous French youth'!

I found this: in France 700 'sensitive urban zones' exist where no police go into and where it is unsafe for non-muslims. While muslims fully demand that they be safe in our lands - go figure this double standard and a country willing to just hand over its lands to these people. (Newmax, Jan. 2009, America Faces Stealth Jihad by Tim Collie)

Mr Ibnu Kamunna, just want to add my two cents here as an ex Muslim.

The is prescribed punishment for those who neglect the 5 daily prayers of Salaat or Namaaz in Islam which is imprisonment and death in all Islamic school of thoughts. Even prayers are also in the category of compulsion for a Muslim.

Besides that, the requirement of 4 witnesses for cases related to non consensual or consensual sexual relationship are also left us to ponder on. The verdict can be passed if only and only if the 4 witnesses are present during the occurrence of the event. This is definitely ludicrous injunctions and impractical to be applied as no stupid human will gather together and watch the scene. Yes, they may watch it in pleasure like a pervert.

This is a crappy law and has cause detrimental effect to Muslim's mind.

Humanity is but one family. :)

Msu 74 says:
"If Sharia law interferes with the basic human liberties, how come so many muslims living in Islamic country survived for 1400 years? If Sharia law puts a woman as second class citizens, how come so many women still have the guts to say publicly…”hey, i am a woman and am proud to be called a muslim” ?"

1. Sharia law mostly interferes with the rights of non-muslims.
2. Ever heard of "Stockholm syndrome".
3. Most muslims/muslima are terrified not to be thought "good muslims", so they will say what is needed.

With regard to Europeans: Well, I'm a Brit. May I gently remind my American friends that it is Britain that has consistently stood with the US in the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
I won't claim to know what other european Countries are(not) doing, but just occasionally here (and in recent months) a degree of honestly has crept in to various statements make by politicians.

R_Not:

I found this: in France 700 ’sensitive urban zones’ exist where no police go into and where it is unsafe for non-muslims. While muslims fully demand that they be safe in our lands – go figure this double standard and a country willing to just hand over its lands to these people. (Newmax, Jan. 2009, America Faces Stealth Jihad by Tim Collie)

It's 752 no-go zones. They are all listed on this page:

http://i.ville.gouv.fr/divbib/doc/chercherZUS.htm

The destruction of Muslims in Western countries already begun!! Not by Western Poltician or laws but by white supermacist/Non muslims.Internet spread vast amount of huge data and information about the evils of Islam and muslims.It already creating so much hate among non muslims against muslims.In Germany a man killed a pregnant muslim wife in broad day light inside courtroom and call her terrorist.Imagine if he can kill a pregnant woman in court....thousand if not millions of people like him will burn muslims alive one day in Western countries if muslims don't convert to human from sub human.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lmAx8VW9pM

The ball start to roll and in my opinion it will get bigger and bigger.I personaly feel sorry for this poor lady who paid the price for thousands of disguisting and barbaric crimes of her muslim brother which create hate in the West.The only solution for muslims in order get some respect is to kick the a.ss of the basket case Mohamad and join the humanity.

R-not and Marie,

I read your posts about the future of Europe with great interest, as I live in Europe, Holland, Rotterdam. There are approx. 100.000 Muslims in Rotterdam, about 1 million in Holland, I believe about 20 million in Europe.

Arguments for the Islamic threat are:.
I. Demography is in this epoch heavily in favor of Islam, both in Europe, other Western countries, India and in the Islamic countries themselves.
II. Stated Islamic intentions, in part anti-Democratic, because against "man-made" laws, in favor of "divine laws", presumably executed by qualified representatives of Islam, hence in practice: Dictatorships a la Iran/ Saudi Arabia or more mundane dictatorships as in many other Islamic countries.
III. The behavior of both oppressing and submissive Muslims (and other inhabitants) in Islamic countries. Which is very important, because this shows how Muslims in practice behave when in majority and power.

At least in Holland there now is Wilders' Freedom Party. I voted for it last time, will probably do so again. I do not agree with their total programme, but I feel that in Holland they alone at least see the Islamic threat and want to do something about it. When the Freedom Party gets many votes, then, and it seems only then, will the politicians of the other parties also handle this threat much better than now.

But today I read Newsweek (of july 20) about the "Eurabia" attack. It was dismissive about it. Demographers are apparently just not able to predict the future accurately, so massive expansion of the Islamic part of Europe is not sure. And many Muslims apparently are leaving Islam quietly. And only a minority (# 28 %) goes to mosque regularly. Also there is much diversity and division among Muslims. And surprisingly, a bigger proportion of Muslims is said to be proud of their new country, patriotic, than that of the original population! The newcomers in part are more satisfied with our well-ordered societies! Apparently because they compare their new societies with their old ones! This is heart-warming. And it makes me so confused.

My favorite view it is that, hey, of the total Muslim-world-population an ever bigger part is living, growing up under good Democratic governance and conditions. It is getting fine education, rational thinking habits, more divers information, better rights etc. And this, in turn, might make a part of the Muslims, living in democratic societies, more susceptible to secular democracy and rational thinking about religion. And when this has happened, then these "Democratic" Muslims might influence their relatives in the country of origine. And this democratic influence is there any way, through the Internet, world-wide travel etc.

And if Islamic countries ever more democratize, it gets, on state-level at least, ever less important what the religion of the inhabitants of a state is. Because everywhere where democracy gets strong, democracy protects the rights of people. And now Newsweek reports also: Indonesia, 222 million people, 190 m. Muslims, 24 m. Christians + Hindus, now is functioning as a secular democracy! Its inhabitants scorn Islamic parties, feel national loyalty first, before religious loyalty. Pakistan, although very problematic, also did have elections last year, in which also Islamic parties lost. Lebanon, just before Iran, voted for pro-Western parties, against the Hezbollah-led-coalition. So we keep watching, always apprehensively, world-development as it unfolds.

Marie said:
"Also in order to effectively to fight Islam there must be something to unite the Europeans like they did during the crusades, something worth fighting for and moral relativism is not something worth fighting for. Geert Wilders recognized this and that is why he started his own party. Other then this Europe seems to have fallen asleep."

I say; I was much impressed by these words, thought long about it. Yes, moral relativism is not something worth fighting FOR. But only fighting AGAINST Islam is too negative.

Oh, I long for the time when Europeans get enthousiastic for some or other political ideal, taking many Muslims in their train, and sweeping traditional Islam largely away! Everywhere, eventually! What could it be? Human rights, Women rights, Children good youth and education, some great technological, medical, sociological innovations? Because there now is Solar Energy, Cradle to Cradle (really revolutionary, very good for environment) and Wellness-development, which promises ever longer ever healthier lives. It sounds like science fiction, I know, and it develops deceptively slow, but technology will grow tremendously in the 21st century, unless interrupted of course.

Also I think our situation is BETTER than that of our predecessors, I think it was worse when the Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc, and all its allies, still, worldwide, threathened democracy. Democracy has much expanded since 1989 and we are now facing the next hurdle.

Islamic Laws otherwise known as Sharia involved slavery. Al Fawzan a top Muslim in Saudi Arabia said slavery was truly Islamic as Islam said. He said Muslims have the right to enslave all people non-Islamic.
Are Muslims all over the world plan to enslave their neighbors and families. Do Muslims think infidels will not fight back? Do Muslims think allah will help them? Allah the DEVIL plans to make fools of them and make them think he is Almighty God. I suggest that Muslims read another book becaUSE WE ALL KNOW THE TRUE ideas of mythical Islam.

Marxist and Islam has joined together. Muslims have claimed to be Baptist in India and other places to make Indians hate Christians. We all know the real deal for the hatred of indians anti Christians. No where are Christians told to fight Hindus. Muslims are told to hate and kill Hindus and they did and still do. If christians are doing it they are not Christians, but liars and servants of SATAN.

Demsci did NewsWeek mentioned that Christians are being persecuted in Indonesia. NewsWeek is another outlet runned by ideologues and it has a favorable attitude towards Islam. I don't count on it as a reliable media outlet.

Marie, go here and sign up and enter your comments. There are some topics going that are related to islam, such as the 'should burkas be banned' and 'should we observe muslim holidays', etc.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/

It is about time newsweek get some truth about islam instead of appeasement/apologist comments.

The only media outlets on paper I read is my local newspaper and the Wall Street Journal. I hardly watch any T.V. Most of the news I get is from the internet and radio talk shows.

Ibn Kammuna has written the above article in a polite tone; and this is the ‎way one should write even when one disagrees. I will like to comment on ‎the the second topice:
‎
‎2. Crime: Apostasy (leaving Islam)

While giving Quranic Evidence Ibn Kammuna has only provided two verses; which do not ‎sufficiently explain the context of Quran on the topic. The usual context is five preceding ‎and five following verses. I therefore make it convenient for the friends here and provide ‎ ten verses from the Quran:‎

[4:85] فَقَاتِلْ فِىْ سَبِيْلِ اللّٰهِ‌ۚ لَا تُكَلَّفُ اِلَّا نَـفْسَكَ‌ وَحَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ‌ۚ عَسَى اللّٰهُ اَنْ يَّكُفَّ بَاْسَ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ اَشَدُّ بَاْسًا وَّاَشَدُّ تَـنْكِيْلاً‏
[4:85] فَقَـٰتِلۡ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ لَا تُكَلَّفُ إِلَّا نَفۡسَكَ‌ۚ وَحَرِّضِ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ‌ۖ عَسَى ٱللَّهُ أَن يَكُفَّ بَأۡسَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ أَشَدُّ بَأۡسً۬ا وَأَشَدُّ تَنكِيلاً۬
[4:85] Fight, therefore, in the cause of Allah — thou art not made responsible except for thyself — and urge on the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the might of those that disbelieve; and Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment.
[4:85] پس اللہ کی راہ میں قتال کر۔ تجھ پر تیرے نفس کے سوا کسی اور کا بوجھ نہیں ڈالا جائے گا۔ اور مومنوں کو بھی (قتال کی) ترغیب دے۔ بعید نہیں کہ اللہ اُن لوگوں کی جنگ روک دے جنہوں نے کفر کیا اور اللہ جنگ کرنے میں سب سے زیادہ سخت اور عبرتناک سزا دینے میں زیادہ شدید ہے۔
[4:86] مَنْ يَّشْفَعْ شَفَاعَةً حَسَنَةً يَّكُنْ لَّهٗ نَصِيْبٌ مِّنْهَا‌ۚ وَمَنْ يَّشْفَعْ شَفَاعَةً سَيِّئَةً يَّكُنْ لَّهٗ كِفْلٌ مِّنْهَا‌ؕ وَكَانَ اللّٰهُ عَلٰى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ مُّقِيْتًا
[4:86] مَّن يَشۡفَعۡ شَفَـٰعَةً حَسَنَةً۬ يَكُن لَّهُ ۥ نَصِيبٌ۬ مِّنۡہَا‌ۖ وَمَن يَشۡفَعۡ شَفَـٰعَةً۬ سَيِّئَةً۬ يَكُن لَّهُ ۥ كِفۡلٌ۬ مِّنۡهَا‌ۗ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ مُّقِيتً۬ا
[4:86] Whoso makes a righteous intercession shall have a share thereof, and whoso makes an evil intercession, shall have a like portion thereof; and Allah is Powerful over everything.
[4:86] جو کوئی اچھی شفاعت کرے اُس میں سے اُس کا بھی حصہ ہوگا اور جو کوئی بُری شفاعت کرے اس کا کچھ بوجھ اس کے لئے بھی ہوگا۔ اور اللہ ہر چیز پر بہت مقدرت رکھنے والا ہے۔
[4:87] وَاِذَا حُيِّيْتُمْ بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيُّوْا بِاَحْسَنَ مِنْهَاۤ اَوْ رُدُّوْهَا‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ كَانَ عَلٰى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ حَسِيْبًا‏
[4:87] وَإِذَا حُيِّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ۬ فَحَيُّواْ بِأَحۡسَنَ مِنۡہَآ أَوۡ رُدُّوهَآ‌ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىۡءٍ حَسِيبًا
[4:87] And when you are greeted with a prayer, greet ye with a better prayer or at least return it. Surely, Allah takes account of all things.
[4:87] اور اگرتمہیں کوئی خیرسگالی کا تحفہ پیش کیا جائے تو اس سے بہتر پیش کیا کرو یا وہی لَوٹا دو۔ یقیناً اللہ ہر چیز کا حساب لینے والا ہے۔
[4:88] اللّٰهُ لَاۤ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا هُوَ‌ؕ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ اِلٰى يَوْمِ الْقِيٰمَةِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيْهِ‌ؕ وَمَنْ اَصْدَقُ مِنَ اللّٰهِ حَدِيْثًا‏
[4:88] ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ‌ۚ لَيَجۡمَعَنَّكُمۡ إِلَىٰ يَوۡمِ ٱلۡقِيَـٰمَةِ لَا رَيۡبَ فِيهِ‌ۗ وَمَنۡ أَصۡدَقُ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ حَدِيثً۬ا
[4:88] Allah is He beside Whom there is none worthy of worship. He will certainly continue to assemble you till the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. And who is more truthful in his word than Allah?
[4:88] اللہ!۔ اس کے سوا اور کوئی معبود نہیں۔ وہ ضرور تمہیں قیامت کے دن تک اکٹھا کرتا چلا جائے گا جس میں کوئی شک نہیں۔ اور اللہ سے زیادہ بیان میں اور کون سچا ہو سکتا ہے۔
[4:89] فَمَا لَـكُمْ فِىْ الْمُنٰفِقِيْنَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّٰهُ اَرْكَسَهُمْ بِمَا كَسَبُوْا‌ؕ اَتُرِيْدُوْنَ اَنْ تَهْدُوْا مَنْ اَضَلَّ اللّٰهُ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يُّضْلِلِ اللّٰهُ فَلَنْ تَجِدَ لَهٗ سَبِيْلاً‏
[4:89] ۞ فَمَا لَكُمۡ فِى ٱلۡمُنَـٰفِقِينَ فِئَتَيۡنِ وَٱللَّهُ أَرۡكَسَہُم بِمَا كَسَبُوٓاْ‌ۚ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهۡدُواْ مَنۡ أَضَلَّ ٱللَّهُ‌ۖ وَمَن يُضۡلِلِ ٱللَّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ ۥ سَبِيلاً۬
[4:89] What has happened to you that you are divided into two parties regarding the hypocrites? And Allah has overthrown them because of what they earned. Desire ye to guide him whom Allah has caused to perish? And for him whom Allah causes to perish thou shalt not find a way.
[4:89] پس تمہیں کیا ہوا ہے کہ منافقوں کے بارہ میں دوگروہوں میں بٹے ہوئے ہو، حالانکہ اللہ نے اس کی وجہ سے جو انہوں نے کسب کئے انہیں اوندھا کر دیا ہے۔ کیا تم چاہتے ہو کہ اُسے ہدایت دو جسے اللہ نے گمراہ قرار دے دیا ہے۔ اور جسے اللہ گمراہ قرار دے تو اس کے لئے تُو ہرگز کوئی راہ نہ پائے گا۔
[4:90] وَدُّوْا لَوْ تَكْفُرُوْنَ كَمَا كَفَرُوْا فَتَكُوْنُوْنَ سَوَآءً‌ فَلَا تَتَّخِذُوْا مِنْهُمْ اَوْلِيَآءَ حَتّٰى يُهَاجِرُوْا فِىْ سَبِيْلِ اللّٰهِ‌ؕ فَاِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَخُذُوْهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوْهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوْهُمْ‌ وَلَا تَتَّخِذُوْا مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَّلَا نَصِيْرًاۙ‏
[4:90] وَدُّواْ لَوۡ تَكۡفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَآءً۬‌ۖ فَلَا تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنۡہُمۡ أَوۡلِيَآءَ حَتَّىٰ يُہَاجِرُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ‌ۚ فَإِن تَوَلَّوۡاْ فَخُذُوهُمۡ وَٱقۡتُلُوهُمۡ حَيۡثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمۡ‌ۖ وَلَا تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنۡہُمۡ وَلِيًّ۬ا وَلَا نَصِيرًا
[4:90] They wish that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you may become all alike. Take not, therefore, friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah. And if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and take no friend nor helper from among them;
[4:90] وہ چاہتے ہیں کہ کاش تم بھی اُسی طرح کفر کرو جس طرح انہوں نے کفر کیا۔ نتیجۃً تم ایک ہی جیسے ہوجاؤ۔ پس ان میں سے کوئی دوست نہ بنایا کرو یہاں تک کہ وہ اللہ کی راہ میں ہجرت کریں۔ پس اگر وہ پیٹھ دکھا جائیں تو اُن کو پکڑو اور ان کو قتل کرو جہاں کہیں بھی تم ان کو پاؤ اور ان میں سے کسی کو دوست یا مددگار نہ بناؤ۔
[4:91] اِلَّا الَّذِيْنَ يَصِلُوْنَ اِلٰى قَوْمٍۢ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِّيْثَاقٌ اَوْ جَآءُوْكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُوْرُهُمْ اَنْ يُّقَاتِلُوْكُمْ اَوْ يُقَاتِلُوْا قَوْمَهُمْ‌ؕ وَلَوْ شَآءَ اللّٰهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقٰتَلُوْكُمْ‌‌ۚ فَاِنِ اعْتَزَلُوْكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوْكُمْ وَاَلْقَوْا اِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَۙ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللّٰهُ لَـكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيْلاً‏
[4:91] إِلَّا ٱلَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىٰ قَوۡمِۭ بَيۡنَكُمۡ وَبَيۡنَہُم مِّيثَـٰقٌ أَوۡ جَآءُوكُمۡ حَصِرَتۡ صُدُورُهُمۡ أَن يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ أَوۡ يُقَـٰتِلُواْ قَوۡمَهُمۡ‌ۚ وَلَوۡ شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمۡ عَلَيۡكُمۡ فَلَقَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ‌ۚ فَإِنِ ٱعۡتَزَلُوكُمۡ فَلَمۡ يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ وَأَلۡقَوۡاْ إِلَيۡكُمُ ٱلسَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ ٱللَّهُ لَكُمۡ عَلَيۡہِمۡ سَبِيلاً۬
[4:91] Except those who are connected with a people between whom and you there is a pact, or those who come to you, while their hearts shrink from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had so pleased, He would have given them power over you, then they would have surely fought you. So, if they keep aloof from you and fight you not, and make you an offer of peace, then remember that Allah has allowed you no way of aggression against them.
[4:91] سوائے ان لوگوں کے جو ایسی قوم سے نسبت رکھتے ہیں جن کے اور تمہارے درمیان عہد و پیمان ہیں۔ یا وہ اس حالت میں تمہارے پاس آئیں کہ ان کے دل اس بات پر انقباض محسوس کرتے ہوں کہ تم سے لڑیں یا خود اپنی ہی قوم سے لڑیں۔ اور اگر اللہ چاہتا تو ان کو تم پر مسلط کر دیتا پھر وہ ضرور تم سے قتال کرتے۔ پس اگر وہ تم سے الگ رہیں پھر تم سے قتال نہ کریں اور تمہیں امن کا پیغام دیں تو پھر اللہ نے تمہیں ان کے خلاف کوئی جواز نہیں بخشا۔
[4:92] سَتَجِدُوْنَ اٰخَرِيْنَ يُرِيْدُوْنَ اَنْ يَّاْمَنُوْكُمْ وَيَاْمَنُوْا قَوْمَهُمْؕ كُلَّمَا رُدُّوْۤا اِلَى الْفِتْنَةِ اُرْكِسُوْا فِيْهَا‌‌ۚ فَاِنْ لَّمْ يَعْتَزِلُوْكُمْ وَيُلْقُوْۤا اِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ وَيَكُفُّوْۤا اَيْدِيَهُمْ فَخُذُوْهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوْهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوْهُمْ‌ؕ وَاُولٰٓٮِٕكُمْ جَعَلْنَا لَـكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطٰنًا مُّبِيْنًا‏
[4:92] سَتَجِدُونَ ءَاخَرِينَ يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَأۡمَنُوكُمۡ وَيَأۡمَنُواْ قَوۡمَهُمۡ كُلَّ مَا رُدُّوٓاْ إِلَى ٱلۡفِتۡنَةِ أُرۡكِسُواْ فِيہَا‌ۚ فَإِن لَّمۡ يَعۡتَزِلُوكُمۡ وَيُلۡقُوٓاْ إِلَيۡكُمُ ٱلسَّلَمَ وَيَكُفُّوٓاْ أَيۡدِيَهُمۡ فَخُذُوهُمۡ وَٱقۡتُلُوهُمۡ حَيۡثُ ثَقِفۡتُمُوهُمۡ‌ۚ وَأُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكُمۡ جَعَلۡنَا لَكُمۡ عَلَيۡہِمۡ سُلۡطَـٰنً۬ا مُّبِينً۬ا
[4:92] You will find others who desire to be secure from you and to be secure from their own people. Whenever they are made to revert to hostility, they fall headlong into it. Therefore, if they do not keep aloof from you nor offer you peace nor restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them, wherever you find them. Against these We have given you clear authority.
[4:92] تم کچھ دوسرے لوگ ایسے بھی پاؤ گے جو چاہتے ہیں کہ وہ تم سے بھی امن میں رہیں اور اپنی قوم سے بھی امن میں رہیں۔ جب کبھی بھی ان کو فتنے کی طرف لے جایا جائے تو وہ اس میں اوندھے مُنہ گرائے جاتے ہیں۔ پس اگر وہ تمہارا پیچھا نہ چھوڑیں اور تمہیں امن کا پیغام نہ دیں اور اپنے ہاتھ نہ روکیں تو ان کو پکڑو اور ان کو قتل کرو جہاں کہیں تم انہیں پاؤ۔ اور یہی وہ (تمہارے دشمن) ہیں جن کے خلاف ہم نے تمہیں کھلی کھلی حجت عطا کی ہے۔
[4:93] وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ اَنْ يَّقْتُلَ مُؤْمِنًا اِلَّا خَطَـــًٔا‌ۚ وَمَنْ قَتَلَ مُؤْمِنًا خَطَـــًٔا فَتَحْرِيْرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ وَّدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ اِلٰٓى اَهْلِهٖۤ اِلَّاۤ اَنْ يَّصَّدَّقُوْا‌ؕ فَاِنْ كَانَ مِنْ قَوْمٍ عَدُوٍّ لَّـكُمْ وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَتَحْرِيْرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ‌ؕ وَاِنْ كَانَ مِنْ قَوْمٍۢ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِّيْثَاقٌ فَدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ اِلٰٓى اَهْلِهٖ وَ تَحْرِيْرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ‌ۚ فَمَنْ لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ شَهْرَيْنِ مُتَتَابِعَيْنِ تَوْبَةً مِّنَ اللّٰهِ‌ؕ وَكَانَ اللّٰهُ عَلِيْمًا حَكِيْمًا‏
[4:93] وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤۡمِنٍ أَن يَقۡتُلَ مُؤۡمِنًا إِلَّا خَطَـًٔ۬ا‌ۚ وَمَن قَتَلَ مُؤۡمِنًا خَطَـًٔ۬ا فَتَحۡرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ۬ مُّؤۡمِنَةٍ۬ وَدِيَةٌ۬ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَىٰٓ أَهۡلِهِۦۤ إِلَّآ أَن يَصَّدَّقُواْ‌ۚ فَإِن كَانَ مِن قَوۡمٍ عَدُوٍّ۬ لَّكُمۡ وَهُوَ مُؤۡمِنٌ۬ فَتَحۡرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ۬ مُّؤۡمِنَةٍ۬‌ۖ وَإِن ڪَانَ مِن قَوۡمِۭ بَيۡنَڪُمۡ وَبَيۡنَهُم مِّيثَـٰقٌ۬ فَدِيَةٌ۬ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَىٰٓ أَهۡلِهِۦ وَتَحۡرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ۬ مُّؤۡمِنَةٍ۬‌ۖ فَمَن لَّمۡ يَجِدۡ فَصِيَامُ شَهۡرَيۡنِ مُتَتَابِعَيۡنِ تَوۡبَةً۬ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ‌ۗ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَلِيمًا حَڪِيمً۬ا
[4:93] It does not become a believer to kill a believer unless it be by mistake. And he who kills a believer by mistake shall free a believing slave, and pay blood money to be handed over to his heirs, unless they remit it as charity. But if the person slain be of a people hostile to you, and be a believer, then the offender shall free a believing slave; and if he be of a people between whom and you is a pact, then the offender shall pay blood money to be handed over to his heirs, and free a believing slave. But whoso finds not one, then he shall fast for two consecutive months — a mercy from Allah. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
[4:93] اور کسی مومن کے لئے جائز نہیں کہ کسی مومن کو قتل کرے سوائے اس کے کہ غلطی سے ایسا ہو۔ اور جو کوئی غلطی سے کسی مومن کو قتل کرے تو ایک مومن غلام کا آزادکرنا ہے اور (طے شدہ) دیت اس کے اہل کو ادا کرنا ہوگی سوائے اس کے کہ وہ معاف کر دیں اور اگر وہ (مقتول) تمہاری دشمن قوم سے تعلق رکھتا ہو اور وہ مومن ہو تب (بھی) ایک مومن غلام آزاد کرنا ہے۔ اور اگر وہ ایسی قوم سے تعلق رکھنے والا ہو کہ تمہارے اور ان کے درمیان عہد و پیمان ہوں تو اس کے اہل کو (طے شدہ) دیت دینا لازم ہے اور ایک مومن غلام کا آزاد کرنا بھی۔ اور جس کو یہ توفیق نہ ہو تو دو مہینے متواتر روزے رکھنا ہوں گے۔ اللہ کی طرف سے یہ بطور توبہ (فرض کیا گیا) ہے۔ اور اللہ دائمی علم رکھنے والا(اور) بہت حکمت والا ہے۔
[4:94] وَمَنْ يَّقْتُلْ مُؤْمِنًا مُّتَعَمِّدًا فَجَزَآؤُهٗ جَهَـنَّمُ خَالِدًا فِيْهَا وَغَضِبَ اللّٰهُ عَلَيْهِ وَلَعَنَهٗ وَاَعَدَّ لَهٗ عَذَابًا عَظِيْمًا‏
[4:94] وَمَن يَقۡتُلۡ مُؤۡمِنً۬ا مُّتَعَمِّدً۬ا فَجَزَآؤُهُ ۥ جَهَنَّمُ خَـٰلِدً۬ا فِيہَا وَغَضِبَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيۡهِ وَلَعَنَهُ ۥ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُ ۥ عَذَابًا عَظِيمً۬ا
[4:94] And whoso kills a believer intentionally, his reward shall be Hell wherein he shall abide. And Allah will be wroth with him and will curse him and will prepare for him a great punishment.
[4:94] اور جو جان بوجھ کر کسی مومن کو قتل کرے تو اس کی جزا جہنّم ہے۔ وہ اس میں بہت لمبا عرصہ رہنے والا ہے۔ اور اللہ اس پر غضبناک ہوا اور اس پر لعنت کی، اور اس نے اس کے لئے بہت بڑا عذاب تیار کر رکھا ہے۔

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+...

I think Quran just says the opposite thing which Ibn Kammuna has not understood; in my ‎opinion.The punishment for apostasy is not death. It is not a crime at all; if one no longer ‎remains convinced of the truth of Quran/Islam/Muhammad, one could change one’s faith, ‎no harm; but that does not mean that such a person should become rebellious and side ‎with the enenmy who is at war.
‎
If he remains a peaceful citizen, he can change his faith/religion, whatever it is. If he ‎sides with the enemy and supports the enemy who is at war, then of course he will be ‎punished not for changing the faith but for siding with the enenmy who is at war. This is ‎what is mentioned in the verses of the chapter 4:88-89 of Quran.
‎
I think this is reasonable and everybody can understand it.
‎
Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

[...] http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/12/the-quranic-sharia-laws/‎ [...]

PaarSurrey:
I know full well that Ahmadi Muslims reject the death penalty for apostasy and I entirely agree that your interpretation of the verses is a good one. Would that all Muslims agreed with you ...

However, the Sunni (at any rate) do not agree with you,
Viz:
Here is what Baidhawi says in commentary on 4:90: "Whosoever turns back from his belief (irtada), openly or secretly, take him and kill him wheresoever ye find him, like any other infidel."

Again; The famous commentary of Al Khazan quotes from Malik ibn Anas, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and others, and gives this interpretation of the verse: "All the deeds of the apostate become null and void in this world and the next. He must be killed." (With reference to K2:214)

From the Hadith of Bukhari, Muslim and Malik we can find 7 examples specifying the death penalty: B9:17, 57,58; 4:656; Muslim1:29; 16:4152; Malik 1410:
the last of these (Malik) is: "Zaid b. Aslam reported that the Apostle declared that the man who leaves the fold of Islam should be executed." and this is a summary of the rest.

From the Sirat Rasulallah and Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir we find:
"After Muhammad took Mecca, he ordered that 10 people to be killed, and several of them were apostates. "
One of them was Abdullah Sa'd (Saud). He had been (as a moslem) close to Mo - having been one who wrote down fragments of the revelation.
Mohammed was so angered by his apostasy that he said that Sa'd was one of those "to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Kaba."

Tabari's history: Volume 17 details the treatment of some Christian converts to Islam who then reverted (apostasized from the Moslem perspective) to Christianity:
"Al-Khirrit met them and said to them, "Woe unto you! Do you know the precept (hukm) of ‘Ali regarding any Christian who accepts Islam and then reverts to Christianity? By God he will not hear anything they say, he will not consider any excuse, he will not accept any repentance, and he will not summon them to it. His precept regarding them is immediate cutting off of the head when he gets hold of them." "

The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) all agree that apostasy is the gravest sin in Islam and require the application of the death penalty as long as the individual does not do so in ignorance or under duress, except for tha Hanafi school which regards women to be exempt. They also differentiate between harmful apostasy and harmless apostasy (also known as major and minor apostasy). According to Wael Hallaq nothing of the apostasy law is derived from the Qur'an, although the jurist al-Shafi'i interpreted the Qu'ranic verse 2:217 as providing the main evidence for apostasy being a capital crime in Islam. (Wiki)

As far as I am able to presently ascertain, the Shai school(s) of jurisprudence are a little more merciful:
"It is recorded from Shafi'i that it is incumbent upon the imam to grant the apostate a three day respite. It is illegal for him to execute him before the respite expires, since the apostasy of a Muslim could be the result of some form of doubt. Thus there must be some time given him as an opportunity for consideration and reflection. We consider three days to be sufficient for this purpose."
(Thus showing moral superiority over the Sunni's 'kill them instantly' approach, I suggest.)

From the above we see:
1. Mohammed, in the Hadith, declared the punishment for apostasy was death (murder).
2. Mohammed practiced what he preached in the taking of Mecca.
3. Ali (the last of the "rightly guided caliphs" according to the Sunni and the first of the "twelve Imams" according to the Shia) also acted on this.
4. All four main (Sunni) schools of Sharia set death as the penalty for Apostasy.
5. Shia Islam (as far as I know) also requires the death penalty for an unrepentant apostate.

Thus, whilst Ahmadi Muslims may differ (thanks be to God!) all "mainstream" Muslims believe that that Islam, if not the Koran, does demand death for the sin-crime of apostasy.

No wonder if ahmadi considered as kafir by other sects. Even if a country don't follow sharia law (death penalty), but still apostates are hated and terrorized physically or mentally. And 1 more thing, as a muslim you shouldn't have non muslim friends or leaders, it's haram. So if your boss is non muslim, get out, if you have non muslim friends, break them and never meet them again.

Islam is suitable for criminals,rapists,terrrorists and those bent on trying to harm innocent people physically,mentally,spiritually,financially and....

Peace to the world......

[...] http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/12/the-quranic-sharia-laws/ [...]

[...] link is being shared on Twitter right now. @dhummi, an influential author, said The Quranic Sharia Laws [...]