The Plight of Women under Islamism: Time for Muslims to Shed the Denial
Submitted by M. Zuhdi Jasser on Sat, 02/21/2009 - 06:06
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There is no more powerful retardant to change and reform among individuals and in a community than human denial.
According to Andrew Benz, Orchard Park Police Chief, on Thursday, February 12, 2009, Muzammil H. Hassan, the founder and CEO of Bridges TV, walked into the police station at 6:20 PM and told officers that his wife was lying dead at the Bridges TV offices. Later, Benz confirmed on WIVB Channel 4 that she was decapitated.
The Veneer of Bridges TV
Mr. Hassan immigrated to the United States from Pakistan in the 1980s. He received an MBA from the University of Rochester in New York and then worked at Procter & Gamble before becoming a banker. In a profile on Hassan and Bridges TV on December 24, 2004 on NPR's All Things Considered, Jerome Vaughn of Detroit Public Radio reported that,
"Bridges TV says it wants to inform and entertain Muslims and, at the same time, give viewers who aren't Muslims a glimpse into their culture. Mo Hassan was traveling from Buffalo to Detroit a few weeks after the September 11th terrorist attacks when his wife came up with the idea for the new network. They were in the car listening to the radio when they heard some derogatory remarks about Muslims."
They claimed that the mission of the network was to, "foster understanding between cultures and diverse populations." The Chicago Tribune puff-piece on the new network on November 30, 2004 called it "Lifetime for Muslims with a dash of CNN." Apparently he financed the network personally leaving his banking job with a $500,000 line of credit and a number of investors. They sought to finance the venture through individual viewer subscriptions of $14.99 in addition to a reported 50 individuals who donated $10 million. Later in 2006, according to the Arab News (the English language propaganda arm of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), Mr. Hassan visited Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, the global capital of Wahhabi ideology, seeking stock investors in his network. The face of Bridges TV's "public marital partnership" in the Hassans clearly had a false veneer which years later would reveal itself. What a difference a few years makes. Mrs. Aasiya Hassan took out an order of protection against her husband and filed for divorce less than a week before her gruesome murder on February 12, 2009. The NY Post reporter only directed attention to the supposition that this beheading was related to Mr. Hassan's financial troubles. The couples' attorney did mention that there was a history of domestic violence and a recent divorce filing leading up to her murder. There was no mention of honor killings and Islamist motivations. The Media's abject blindness Now almost five days since the beheading and murder of Aasiya Hassan, the media has been unfathomably silent. Local media covered it like they would any murder. And national media have remained tone deaf and silent. In a media industry where high-profile bizarre murders can quickly become an obsession dominating coverage (i.e. Laci Peterson and Natalee Holloway, to name just two), the avoidance of this story is beyond remarkable. Mark Steyn eloquently points out the abject avoidance behavior and blindness of mainstream media in addressing the layers of issues related to Islamism at the National Review's Corner:When poor Mrs Hassan's husband launched his TV network to counter negative stereotypes of Muslims, he had no difficulty generating column inches, as far afield as The Columbus Dispatch, The Detroit Free Press, The San Jose Mercury News, Variety, NBC News, the Voice of America and the Canadian Press. The Rochester Democrat & Chronicle put the couple on the front page under the headline "Infant TV Network Unveils The Face Of Muslim News".
But, when Muzzammil Hassan kills his wife and "the face of Muslim news" is unveiled rather more literally, detached from her corpse at his TV studios, it's all he can do to make the local press - page 26 of Newsday, plus The Buffalo News, and a very oddly angled piece in the usually gung-ho New York Post, "Buffalo Beheading: Money Woe Spurred Slay".
Do not just take my word for it. Search major media national outlets for any comment at all let alone investigative analyses of this horrific murder. Other than blogs, you will not find much coverage at all. Imagine for just one second, a non-Muslim CEO of a cable network channel (i.e. the Oxygen channel) turning himself in after the beheading of his wife. Add to this the threat of the ideology of radical Islamism and the resources which our government is spending countering that threat since 9/11, and one cannot help but lament the dimming hope of any legitimate reporting being done about the Islamist movement and its threats in the United States. Islamists' abject denials Islamists and their sympathizers are, for the most part, also staying away from this story with fear of the lessons that lie within. But we are sure to witness a litany of variations upon the theme of denial as this story gets the attention it needs in the coming months. Khalid Qazi, a vocal Islamist, a local advocate for Bridges TV and head of the Western New York Chapter of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, apparently spoke to the couple according to reports just last week. His comments scream denial. He said,"...the killings went against the teachings of Islam and damaged the image of Muslims that Hassan worked to promote. Domestic violence is despicable, and Islam condones it in no way whatever. Murders are being committed in the US every day by people of all faiths"
The key elements in denial here are the likely deep links of Islamism (political Islam), interpretations of Sharia and other mysoginistic religio-cultural values unaddressed by organizations like Qazi's. Another sampling of the types of denial sure to come from America's leading Islamists is this typical post from an Islamist at the "average Muslim blog" of this nameless former MSA leader at Stony Brook University, web developer, proud Salafist, and New York native. He stated, "This is why we can't really label people as "extremist" because it's such relative term (sic). From the TV shows that I've seen on Bridges TV, I can say that they are very open minded and liberal in some sense. So what made this guy do such a horrible crime? Many people will look at this and say "this guy is an extremist Muslim", but the reality is. (sic) This guy is just a criminal who is Muslim by faith, that's all. The act had nothing to do with his religion, unfortunately many non-Muslims will bring this up and blame it on Islam and many Muslims will brush it off with "he's an extremist Muslim". (sic) Both are wrong. Let's be real and treat it as it is. He's a murderer who happens to be Muslim" said also "for those who don't think he's guilty, he's guilty from before sine his wife filed for a restraining order to do the physical abuse she endured. According to Islam and Allah's words, this is forbidden. We don't need to wait for man-made law to declare him a criminal. And Allah knows best" Looking more closely at the ideology of Bridges TV and its supporters Whether the mainstream media ignores these cases and Islamists and their sympathizers choose to dismiss it away or not, the general public will rightly continue to grow increasingly concerned about the connections of Islamism to these episodes of rage. If Muslims cannot crawl out of their denial and begin to address these obvious connections in a scientific way, the frequency of these cases - both high profile and otherwise - will only increase and we will have shirked our deep responsibility to our nation and to God. Mr. Hassan was often referred to publicly as a "moderate Muslim leader." Now more than ever, if there is one lesson to learn from the death of Mrs. Hassan, it is that a Muslim's "moderation" is not defined by a condemnation of violence and terrorism but rather by their stance against political Islam and their stance against the statist legal goals of political Islam. Islamists like the supporters of Bridges TV will try to dismiss this horrific murder as a cultural act of barbarism, but this man was well assimilated into the American culture and his wife was also rather well culturally assimilated. But far deeper in this story than the domestic violence that plagues all societies is the male domination and dehumanization of women, which the method and rage of this murder demonstrates. This animal likely felt religiously empowered by a religious, political, and cultural ideology (Islamism) which placed him in his own mind in a position of power over his wife. This concept endemic to Islamism will always contribute to acts of domestic violence. Thus, while all cultures are plagued with some form of domestic violence, the far higher incidence in the "Muslim world" speaks to a dire need for theological reform. Bridges TV was endorsed and utilized by most American Islamist organizations and this case should again put up a warning flag of the dangers endemic to political Islam. Bridges TV was endorsed by ISNA (Islamic Society of North America), CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), MPAC (Muslim Public Affairs Council), and MAS (Muslim American Society) to name a few of the prominent American Muslim organizations which endorsed it. These organizations have remained malignantly silent on the issue of the equality of women, their support of Islamism, and barriers against women's rights in their interpretation of sharia. For example, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), has said in April 2004 in a fatwa (religious opinion or ruling) for the popular Islamist site, Islamonline.net of the Muslim Brotherhood out of Qatar that,"It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him...a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely. in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife..."
Note that the current President of ISNA is Professor Ingrid Mattson. She provided a prayer at the interfaith service for the new Obama administration at the National Cathedral in January. Now into her second term of her presidency of ISNA, she has yet to publicly repudiate any of the misogynistic pronouncements and interpretations of her predecessors. Without an outspoken frontal defense of women against the misogynistic interpretations of Islam by Islamists, individuals like Mattson remain complicit veneer for an anti-woman medieval ideology. In fact, this is an ideal moment in time for Mattson to speak against mistreatment of women and repudiate any sanction of so-called "light disciplinary action" which her ISNA colleagues have obviously endorsed. CAIR was not only on board as an advocate for Bridgest TV, but Mr. Hassan touted Nihad Awad as an advisor to Bridges TV. Hassan was also recognized at the annual dinner of CAIR-PA. CAIR-Chicago and other CAIR chapters around the country lobbied to have Bridges TV added to regular cable programming. Add to this MPAC-NY's defense of Bridges TV throughout its existence and its recent apologetics, and we can begin to get a flavor of how pervasive the type of ideology peddled by Bridges TV was among Islamist organizations. We should not ignore the additional fact that recently the FBI officially finally severed ties with CAIR citing among other things its open support of HAMAS and many of the revelations which arose during the Holy Land Foundation trial which, ended in guilty convictions of many HLF leaders. This was certainly long overdue and a welcome evolution after the FBI hosted a townhall meeting on Bridges TV in 2006. Many of us trying to sound the alarm against political Islam and its insidious threat to Western secular democracy have been dismissed as "alarmist." Check out Bridges TV's YouTube channel (as long as it remains up) to get a firsthand sense of the type of programming and ideology it espoused. They focused on the same old trope as the rest of the Islamist organizations in the United States - victimization, blaming western foreign policy, and conspiracy theories. This is not to mention their typical apologetics and avoidance of any criticism of Muslim majority countries and their governments. Do not waste too much time looking for any exposés on the genocide in Sudan, the oppression of women by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, or the oppression of dissidents by the Egyptian, Syrian, or Pakistani dictatorships, to name just a few of the issues that a truly moderate and progressive American Muslim network would cover. Steve Stalinsky of MEMRI reported in the now defunct NY Sun about the many concerns of the ideology of Bridges TV. He reported that some guests were extremists. Stalinsky wrote, One religious figure who appeared October 3, 2006 said Muslims have a duty to change America and to increase their numbers to 50% of the population from 2%. He recommended that Shariah, or Islamic law, be implemented in American courts...Bridges TV's website www.bridgestv.com features a weekly poll. Notable questions and results include 59% calling for Hezbollah to continue as a military force in Lebanon, 73% in agreement with the American policy of withholding funds to the Hamas-led Palestinian Arab government, and 63% believing that the Iranian government's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes...Bridges TV claims that its "major purpose" is "to build bridges between American Muslims and other Americans." After viewing the channel, I find this highly unlikely." How many more warnings do we need about the perils of political Islam? News agencies worth their salt will begin to look at the facts of this case and give it the attention that other high-profile murders in the United States warrant. Certainly Muzzammil Hassan will be innocent until proven guilty. But that does not change the responsibility of the media to address the facts. The facts here are that this media executive turned himself in to police and directed them to the location of his wife's body back at his office. We are missing many facts. But the facts thus far reveal a woman who feared for her safety from her husband, filed for divorce, and then was found decapitated. This should at least begin a national discussion on how remarkably parallel the tracks of the ideologies of Jihadism and the ideologies of male domination and dehumanization of women are. Most importantly, we need to address how both come out of political Islam. American Islamist organizations should account for their stances on the place of women in society and whether they recognize the inherent equality of women which has characterized one of the core values of modernity in the west. A review of many controversial laws passed in the name of Sharia in the "Muslim world" reveals a treatment of women which is only a "stone's throw away" from the so-called moderate veneer of the Islamism of Muzzammil Hassan's Bridges TV. So many of the human rights abuses in nations dominated by Muslims are atrocities committed by men against women. Laws excusing honor killings, rape, and domestic violence continue to remain part of the legal systems of many Muslim nations driven by governmental interpretation of sharia. Even in Germany, a judge ruled that a Muslim German man's abuse of his wife was permitted since it was a protected religious belief. That verdict was vacated a few weeks later, but highlights the abominable cognitive dissonance which many non-Muslims employ when dealing with this issue. The evidence is overwhelming that political Islam and Salafism - are theological constructs ossified in medieval mindsets and in need of deep reform. That reform and modernization will not happen without daily and pressured attack against the ideas. Something that Bridges TV certainly did not do. Comments by Islamists or their supporters are sure to continue to give short shrift to the plight of Muslim women. No surprise. The real victims here are Mrs. Hassan and Muslim women all over the world. Their plight is the plight of all those who are victimized by the supremacist mentality of political Islam and the recommended domination of women by their male run communities. I cannot understand why the mainstream media do not see value in publicizing their plight. The lack of freedom and equality for women in societies and communities run by Islamists exemplifies how Islamists, no matter how they try to camouflage it, will always try to dominate various groups of individuals. It may hide itself from the public eye for years but it exists. Whether guilty or innocent of this grisly crime, clearly this "nice man," as some Muslims have called him, was a oppressive and violent at home. His wife had resorted to an order of protection against him one week earlier. Domestic violence is not a monopoly of the Muslim community, but the West has gone a long way towards giving women victims of such Neanderthals legal mechanisms of protection, equality, and rights. The Muslim clerics who teach and enable these Islamists have done no such thing and in Hassan's motherland of Pakistan, women are killed every day without a government or a humanitarian legal code to protect them. An Islamist who spontaneously turns into a monster is not a new phenomenon. Similarly, in describing "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" and the murderous rampage through the University of North Carolina by Mohammed Taheri-Azar, Daniel Pipes wrote that Mr. Taheri-azar represented, "a seemingly well-adjusted Muslim whose religion inspires him, out of the blue, to murder non-Muslims...It has the awful but legitimate consequence of casting suspicion on all Muslims. Who knows whence the next jihadi? How can one be confident a law-abiding Muslim will not suddenly erupt in a homicidal rage? Yes, of course, their numbers are very small, but they are disproportionately much higher than among non-Muslims." So with Mr. Hassan we see a variation on this theme - a "Sudden Honor killer Syndrome" if you will. The monstrous, murderous violence which led to Mrs. Hassan's murder may have been "sudden" for those who knew the couple. But Mr. Hassan's misogyny and his apologetics for the ideas of Islamism, and Salafism were most likely not sudden at all. It is time for all Muslims to shed the deep seeded denial and avoidance behavior which shifts the focus away from long overdue theological reform - the only treatment for this disease. A culture and theology which lives along the pre-modern slippery slope of Islamism can easily lead men like Mr. Hassan toward the brink while providing many warning signs. It is time that American Islamist organizations like ISNA, CAIR, and MPAC recognize the problem openly, giving it more than just the lip service which a few poorly attended seminars on domestic violence at their national conventions may do. But then again, to do so would ask them to deconstruct the very legal system of political Islam which is the ideological infrastructure of their existence. This case should highlight the critical need among Muslims for an anti-Islamist narrative. Surely the first group to run and liberate themselves from Islamists will be Muslim women around the world seeking real freedom and human rights. FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder and Chairman of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix Arizona. He is a former U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander, a physician in private practice, and a community activist. He can be reached at Zuhdi@aifdemocracy.org.
Zuhdi Jasser, Islam as such
Zuhdi Jasser, Islam as such is evil , anti human and aganst basic reason. You will have to dump it totally if there should be peace in the world. So stop using terms like political islam, democratic islam etc.
Islam encompasses everything, whethr, spiritual, political or socio -economical. In every field, its influence has been hegative. History and contemporary events prove that. So, DUMP ISLAM IN TOTAL.
Moslems have a common trait (
Moslems have a common trait ( that includes some so called ex poslems as well). Its the unnatural love of prophet and allah to the extent of hating any thing else! Allah says cover your hair,women better be covered. otherwise the moslem men may suddenly turn in to a monster or rather simply true pious moslem and is likely to rape you, or behead you or both if you are a kafir.Now let us see the non bashing kind words of wisdom from the bible thumping lady and the compassionate kind social worker.
Islam is male chauvinistic
Islam is male chauvinistic and totalitarian. Islamic approach is summarized thus:
"Probe with bayonets, if you meet steel stop. If you meet mush, probe harder"
These are Lenin`s words, but very appropriate to reflect muslims too.
Those who understand could find ways to deal with muslims realistically.
islam is a nice philosophy to
islam is a nice philosophy to follow because
1.Islam teaches you that it's ok to sleep wtih girls as young as 6 years old.
2.Nice way to lead because the wives should remain subservient to you all the time.Otherwise beat the crap out of them with a tooth brush ofcourse.
3.Nice to have a few slaves around who can keep the bread and bed warm for you all the time.Alhumdulillah.
4.Nice because you can kill kafirs with impunity and rape their women with no remorse or threat punishment.
5.Islam is peaceful mind you.
6.Islam teaches you piety and teaches you to share your wealth.
7.Islam is so good that kafirs are all jealous and are against the islam.
8.Wait till the islam becomes the dominant religion of the world and you shall see the real islam in action.Like the afghanisthan,Iraq etc.Then this bible thumping lady can wonder where she went wrong and the social worker will have a lot of social work to do, what with wives getting beaten, bombs and bums exploding,people beheading.The TV will be great fun and oh fridays you can have the fun of watching live beheadings, chopping the arms and legs, extra fun stoning of the women to death.Mmm I am so excited. I wonder why kafir s are still kept alive by allah. Kill the kafirs allahu akbar
Hey this guy (Mr Zuhdi
Hey this guy (Mr Zuhdi Jasser) with his articulate article he is still a muslim? At the beginning of the article I thought he is an ex moslim so I read it very keenly but realizing at the end he is the so-called moderate, ooops, I dont know how to explain how I'm feeling. In short disappointed. He is either playing taqqiya or something else I don't know.
Proudkafir: Don't forget
Proudkafir:
Don't forget that Muslim men can "thigh" little babies. They put their projectiles between the thighs of little girls and ejactulate. Then at 9 they can interject their projectiles into the vaginal cavity of the little girls or the anus of the boys.
Check out "thighing" a practice of prophet Muhammad, to be followed by all Muslim men. MUSLIM WOMEN NEED TO WAKE UP AND FIGHT BACK. THIS LADY WAS PREGNANT WHEN HER HEAD WAS REMOVED BY THIS INSANE HOLY WARRIOR.
3. SandeepShreshtha Says:
3. SandeepShreshtha Says: Islam is male chauvinistic and totalitarian. Islamic approach is summarized thus: “Probe with bayonets, if you meet steel stop. If you meet mush, probe harder” These are Lenin`s words, but very appropriate to reflect muslims too.
Those who understand could find ways to deal with muslims realistically.
Good Point... perhaps you too would like to elaborate to the proud Kaffir about the Law of Manu and its description of how to treat the hindu wife....
4. proudkafir Says: Then this
4. proudkafir Says: Then this bible thumping lady can wonder where she went wrong and the social worker will have a lot of social work to do.
Not really.....my work here is just nice for me to do. I do not like to interfere other people terriroty where I have no business. It seems you are so obsess with me... every message of yours.......you remember me. How nice... I'm touch.
nurulhuda said Good Point…
nurulhuda said
Good Point… perhaps you too would like to elaborate to the proud Kaffir about the Law of Manu and its description of how to treat the Hindu wife….
Nurul, two wrongs don't make a right. I really don't know about this Manu fellow, but I can tell you one thing for sure and that is Hindu women are far better treated than their Muslims counterparts anywhere in this world.
While it would be a lie if any Hindu claims that no Hindu women are maltreated, its a fact that they live a life that is much better than that of a believing Muslim lady.
There are still many evil practices like female infanticide going on in some parts of India, and this is bad. However the ones to raise a voice against these evil practices are also Hindus. Sadly we don't get to hear these voices amongst Muslims and this is the problem Nurul.
Evils are prevalent amongst all sections of society, but the problem is that only Islam openly justifies all sorts of evils.
9. ibrahim Says:[1] I really
9. ibrahim Says:[1] I really don’t know about this Manu fellow, but I can tell you one thing for sure and that is Hindu women are far better treated than their Muslims counterparts anywhere in this world.
Then you should seriously take a look at the Law of Manu and you will understand what I'm talking about. Women in ancient India are treat no better... and a lot of the hindu scriptures totally ignore the hindu woman altogether... woman are always subordinate to the husband...But you see Ibrahim you must understand about Hinduism.
Hinduism comprises numerous sects or denominations. The denominations are roughly comparable to different religions. The main divisions in current Hinduism are Shaivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism, and Smartha. These four denominations share rituals, beliefs, and traditions, but each denomination has a different philosophy on how to achieve life's ultimate goal (moksa, liberation).
Shaivism and Vaishnavism are typically patriarchal thus their perception of the woman is that ... of submission and subordination. Its the Shaktas are typically female orientate.. where they consider all woman as the manifestation of the Great Goddess. To hurt a woman is to hurt the DEVI herself... Women are respected and honoured etc.. I am not going to elaborate further... you can google search on Shaktas and whole lot of information in there.
[2] However the ones to raise a voice against these evil practices are also Hindus. Sadly we don’t get to hear these voices amongst Muslims and this is the problem Nurul.
Exactly... that is why I mention about the Bhakti Movement... where does it come from.. from within the hindu society itself.... any form of movement like the revolution to be effective must come from within..
How does the feminist movement comes about? and Why? Because of the years of oppression the women have been put under...Why do revolution happen? You think over night? No.. its a product of time... and a natural phenomenon.
But if you look at the link I send in my exchange with proud kaffir about the muslim woman in Malaysia... sister in islam is one of the new phenomenon where the muslim woman are questioning and demanding their rights. Now such words as Feminism in Islam is beginning to emerge. Why do you think this is happening? To me its a natural phenomenon. Bound to happen... just like the rise of the apostate.... we are a new social phenomenon... why do we now daring enough to make that bold move... to be vocal.. Don't you see the changes happening now?
Thanks Ibrahim.You have left
Thanks Ibrahim.You have left the cult far behind and are a human being.It's down right stupid to say that you can quote manu shastra? oh by the way it's for Nurulhuda Shall I quote what it says in Manu shastra about women? You will be surprised to know it's exactly like in Qrand! You have not read it,I have.No hindu follows the manu's laws today.the islamically brain damaged fellows still follow the thighing of infants,marrying 4 wives, keeping slave beheading etc exactly as in qrand.So you are still stuck in the 7 th century quagmire unable to come out.Leave islam in mind and body.You are not free yet.Get you head out of islamic crap and be free.If I object to the islamic practice of raping children , marrying 6 year old girls, beheading,and a whole of obnoxious practices, its not that I hate moslems.As I already indicated to you I stii have moslems in my concern and their job is not at stake, because of your accusation of me being stuck in moslem hatred.
I have indicated to you please get the freedom completely from islam. You still have islamic trait.( to Nurulhuda)
There are good people and criminals in all religions.But islam fosters criminals more than any other religion.Will catch up later as my blue label is waiting for me.Bye.thanks again Ibrahim
11. proudkafir Says: [1] I
11. proudkafir Says: [1] I have indicated to you please get the freedom completely from islam. You still have islamic trait.( to Nurulhuda)
You are wrong my dear friend... just because I still have sympathy for the muslim makes me still have an islamic traits eh.... So you like to define for me what is freedom? You are not a free person yourself because you are still stuck... stuck with this hatred and blind towards the muslim... that is your problem and you choose not to accept it.
[2] It’s down right stupid to say that you can quote manu shastra? oh by the way it’s for Nurulhuda Shall I quote what it says in Manu shastra about women? You will be surprised to know it’s exactly like in Qrand! You have not read it,I have.No hindu follows the manu’s laws today.the islamically brain damaged fellows still follow the thighing of infants,marrying 4 wives, keeping slave beheading etc exactly as in qrand.So you are still stuck in the 7 th century quagmire unable to come out.
you see Ibrahim.......he is so nice now. He wants to tell you about the Manu law.. Say thank you to him. You see just as I have said.. while the hindus have rejected and move away from manu law .. because of the period of transformation and change. While Islam is still a young religion... young as they are.... they are intolerant and arrogant.. ...just like you proud kaffir... I bet you are a young man... you seems to be so stubborn and down right ... right about yourself refusing to accept others.. .the same as the islam. As the time goes... islam will go through change. They have no choice but to change... becu if they dont they too will die of natural death. ... like the Vaishnivites and the Shivites.. when they kill each other... like the Sunnis and the Shites right. You see how history is repeating itsefl.........eventually Islam will become like Hinduism... saturated and neutralise...
I do not understand what's
I do not understand what's the meaning of he is so nice? Of course the Manusmruthi is not followed at all in India and one of the important tenets of the manusmruthi is cow protection and cows are being openly slaughtered by moslems just to make a point to the stupid hindus! You may not be aware how begotted the moslems are in India. Incidentally the great Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad said this about Gandhi Quote ." I consider a moslem rickshaw puller in kolkata to be more spiritually awakened and intelligent than mahatma gandhi will ever be simply because Gandhi is a kafir and the poor rickshaw puller is a momeen" unquote.
Shivites and vishnavites never killed each other that's the moslem trait,Killing and proof is in the pudding.Shias and sunnis have killed each other for 1400 years and sre still killin each other,Shivites and vishnavites intermarry! Please educate yourself about from proper sources and not madrasa sources.The day moslems give up their islamic noose, they will improve.This is possible when the non Arab Moslems realise that they are only offered a subsidiary inferior role to Arabs as moslems.I concur with Ibrahim.He has all the traits of a non moslem! By accident of history he was a moslem.
Culture can not be separate form religious thoughts. Culture is a very loose term.Hindu culture includes, hindu religious rituals, Hindu music ( north and south Indian) the various dances,the art, the literature, science, medicine , philosophy and whole lot of other things.You can not have the destrucive pedophilic religion of a rapist as your religion and have music, dance, etc as your culture.Think about it.Want to reclaim Indian and chinese culture? Get rid of islamic noose
Really this PK ( pagal kafir
Really this PK ( pagal kafir ) is doing a great damage than good, so i request people over here to take him as a scrap and ignore him
Nurulhuda wrote: "You are
Nurulhuda wrote:
"You are wrong my dear friend… just because I still have sympathy for the muslim makes me still have an islamic traits eh…. So you like to define for me what is freedom? You are not a free person yourself because you are still stuck… stuck with this hatred and blind towards the muslim… that is your problem and you choose not to accept it."
Ignore proudkafir, he has only hatred in his heart. It's true that I do criticize Muslims and in someways bash them, I do not hold any hatred towards them, only Islam. It's Islam we hate, not Muslims. Also Muslim bashing serves no purpose other then to make us look like bigots. Also hatred is the worst thing to have, I know from experience. It traps you and just makes you bitter. Hatred serves no purpose at all, other then destruction of the human being.
By the way Zuhdi Jasser is a Muslim apologist and I have seen some of his writings before. Beware this guy might be a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I would be more impressed if
I would be more impressed if Pakistan, and other pisslum countries, had TV stations that tried to show muslims that their intolerance and bigotry is unfounded.
All muslims have to do is:
- stop killing people for allah - and that means stop aiming for women/children, and unarmed civilians.
- stop supporting those who do the above.
- stop deceiving us about what islam is all about.
- and lastly, keep their 'religion' at home and stop shoving it in our faces.
All, Although PK tends to be
All,
Although PK tends to be uncivilised in most comments, i must say he has been very civilised in this one. Rather than letting your biases cloud your judgement, should you guys not be talking about islam rather than other religions and i for one do believe that if there is any religion in which you have the freedom to be atheist, it is hinduism. I am yet to see a single hindu missionary going around dangling carrots to poor to reap souls or defaming other religous dieties to convert people from non-hindu religion to hindu religion. Infact I have seen quite the opposite. Most of the non-hindu people who follow some of hindu philosophies are quite well off and educated.
There has been evil in hinduism but the fact is that hindus are not asking for special concessions everywhere they go. I remember a case in London where a sacred Bull in some temple was put to death (as it was suffereing from TB) in the dead of night and there was no mayhem on the streets of London although there were some voices of peaceful protest in the form letters to newspapers.
Had this been the case with muslims,
a) british government would not have the balls to do anything of the sort it did
b) there would have been rioting all over the world.
Marie,
Just because christians have reformed does not make bible any better than manusmriti..
but there is one important distinction from Quran. both bible and manusmriti are accepted as having been written by men.. Quran is assumed to be allah's word.
Quran and Bible though have one thing in common.. these are still studied today and it does not take one more than 30 seconds to convert from non-christian and non-islamic religions to islamic/christian religion..
although i am not interested in defending any religion, i get pissed off when people often get carried away because of their religious biases and deride others with holier than thou attitude..
I just realized that the
I just realized that the press' silence certainly hasn't silenced anyone else.
As usual the leftie donkeys run with their tails between their legs and everyone else is having a heyday with this news. And I am saying that it is on every blog site that I am registered on.
I am glad the left wing idiots are not most people's primary source of news anymore.
"Quran and Bible though have
"Quran and Bible though have one thing in common.. these are still studied today and it does not take one more than 30 seconds to convert from non-christian and non-islamic religions to islamic/christian religion."
I beg to differ with you there. Catholics do indeed have Catechism classes and meetings with priests, and baptism.
Then there is still baptism in other Christian religions too.
In islam - all you have to do is say a phrase.
R_not, I am sure that for
R_not,
I am sure that for most of the people living in sub-saharan africa and south asia, it does not take more than 30 seconds to baptise a person. I do though do not despise it as much as christian missionaries do some good work atleast as well even though at the cost of denigrating local culture. Not all conversions need to be bad at the same time. Recently in one of the forums, i came to know that certian parts of Indian kashmir have very high christian population because of missionary work and i see it as a positive change because it will atleast take the violence away from people.
But ulitmately, if people who believe in religion and who don't do not behave humanely, it makes little difference what their beliefs are.. isn't it?
i can't remember the last time god came to anyone's rescue. do you? it is always the good samaritans( don't tell me that it was god who sent them)..
13. proudkafir Says: Shivites
13. proudkafir Says: Shivites and vishnavites never killed each other that’s the moslem trait,Killing and proof is in the pudding.Shias and sunnis have killed each other for 1400 years and sre still killin each other,Shivites and vishnavites intermarry! Please educate yourself about from proper sources and not madrasa sources
yes I have educate myself properly and I have asked the Indianologist for verification. This is a proof that you NEVER KNOW your own Hindu history and you never know the Bhag. Gita too. Are you sure you're a Hindu? or you're a Muslim Fundie disguised as a Hindu... and with all the mental diarrhoea, with the intention to drive the muslims away from this site. YOU ARE A FAKE!
nurulhuda i too have the same
nurulhuda i too have the same doubt, I think this PK ( pagalkafir aka hallalpork786 ) is working on pay rolls for jihadi terrorist.
I have often wondered : what
I have often wondered : what goes into the mind of that muslim killers when they shoot the innocent people in the public places...I've been asking myself this question a lot of times : What did they see that I don't.
Proud Kaffir has given me the answer [ i think ] when he said he dosent want to call me by my name because he dosent want to be personal.. or something along that line. In the eyes of the muslim killers.....all those people are not one of them... they are kaffirs.. as such they do not have an identity and a name. They are just that : others and kaffirs as such different from me. These kaffirs do not have a face that I can recognise... only I have the face I can identify with. I have a name... I have an identity and this is the identity I am holding right now... the jihad warrior.
Is this pisspond on the pay
Is this pisspond on the pay rolls of vatican? I am sure the white masters service the back side perfectly.You must be quite aware that sodomy was made unlawful in Bible only after the priests have had their fill, but obviously the priests are hungrier!
PK ( pagal kafir ) aka
PK ( pagal kafir ) aka allahmiya aka hallalpork 786 a MORON working for brain dead jihadi on pay rolls, what about DRAUPADI sleeping with five bastards wow what a culture LOL.
PK ( pagal kafir ) i think u
PK ( pagal kafir ) i think u enjoyed a lot with them and unable to forget those good days HAHAHAHAHAH
#24 Sorry the vatican was not
#24 Sorry the vatican was not formed when the Bible said sodomy was wrong 1 Tim1:8-10. Peter was no Pope as he was married and the bible said forbidding to marry was ungodly 2 tim 3:1-5
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