Muhammad's Unlettered Eloquence

To admin;

---- You stated ["The fact is Muslim apologetics try to market the idea that Muhammad was illiterate. He was not. He had a low level ability of reading, and it shows in the Koran. It is a book filled with grammatical errors, linguistic errors, contradictions, non-sensical phrases,..etc."]

++ Your statements are wrong. The prophet Muhammad was indeed illiterate. There are no grammatical errors, linguistic errors or any contradictions in the Quran. Every contradiction cited by Anti-Islam has been proven wrong by Islamic scholars. FFI (Facts Fabrications International) and its supporters such as you spread propaganda about Islam that lacks prove and evidence.

++ Anti-Muslim groups and individuals are trying to spread anti-Islamic propaganda by corrupting the truth about the Holy Quran via worldwide web. These evildoers such as Ali Sinner and FFI (facts Fabrications International) are taking the words of Allah and manipulating them in such a way that non-Muslims and non-Arabic speakers will interpret and read the fake ‘Quran’ with horror. The Holy Quran has given us the classical Arabic language, grammar, and form, and those who are not educated in the reading of the Holy Quran could be easily deceived by this website and other false Anti Islam websites.

++ Here are a few of the true Islamic websites containing the actual facts about the Quran and Islam:

http://www.islamicity.com
http://www.submission.org
http://www.islamonline.com

Am not certain whether the pedophile rapist was illiterate or not, but most moslems are illiterate cretins.That am quite sure.

to "The Truth"

Please watch this:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/10/12/islam-is-100-true/

To admin
This is in reply Comment ID #27201
October 13, 2009 • 9:01 am .to “The Truth”

----You stated ["Please watch this: http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/10/12/islam-is-100-true/ "]

++ I did watch the above video. It is just another video that promotes propaganda against Islam. We all need to be focused about searching for the truth and nothing but the truth. All what I have seen so far on this web site and other Anti-Islamic web sites is pure propaganda. You need to present some valid evidence that Islam is wrong. Anyone can claim anything about anyone. I can say the same thing about you as you are saying about the prophet Mohammad. But where is the evidence? That is the key. A valid prove must be presented to support the claim.

++ This web site has made so many claims that Islam is wrong. However, all justifications to support those claims do not rise to the level of a proof. A proof is needed to support those claim. However, none has been presented yet.

The un-Truth

Example of his "superior Islamic logic":

All shameful facts that reveal the sordid reality of Islam in action is propaganda.
All lies that praise Islam is The Truth.
Therefore glib lies are preferred by Muslims than harsh reality.

Tell us another!

We are free souls that are not deceived. Join the rest of Humanity and be a decent caring human being! Say no to slavery to Islam!

The Truth said "You need to present some valid evidence that Islam is wrong."

Dude, this whole website is built on destroying the claims made by Mohamid and his followers by carefully analyzing those claims and refuting them in minute detail.

What the hell are you talking about? Have you read any of the articles?

The next time you come across a mistake in an article, please enlighten us with the truth

To The Truth, in regard to post 27207;

You said: “Anyone can claim anything about anyone.”

Well, this is your claim: “I did watch the above video. It is just another video that promotes propaganda against Islam.” And you said: “A valid prove must be presented to support the claim.”

Answer: This goes for you too here. The video was about anomalies in the Quran and the tafsir-attempts to make them look better. There are indications, particles of proof, evidence on it. You now must prove that the claim of the video is false.

Your claim:“All what I have seen so far on this web site and other Anti-Islamic web sites is pure propaganda.”.

Answer: Exactly what have you seen? Can you name all the articles which are pure propaganda, can you prove that they are propaganda as opposed to factual and logical?

By now we are entitled to ask you; did you ever accept any evidence, however small, that went against what you previously thought, said or claimed, in regard to Islam? Can you show us this acceptance?

Saying that everything what the opposition says is just propaganda is lazy thinking and not acceptable in parliamentary democracy.

But it still is perfectly acceptable to state your opinions, but then admit that what you say is just your opinion. And relax a bit on the high standards you apply to our claims or opinions all the time.

To paulo
This is in reply to Comment ID #27216
October 13, 2009 • 11:24 am .

----You stated ["Dude, this whole website is built on destroying the claims made by Mohamid and his followers by carefully analyzing those claims and refuting them in minute detail. What the hell are you talking about?"]

++ The articles on this web site are logical fallacies. The so called evidence presented in them is fabricated. I have read many articles on this web site. Anyone checks references cited by articles presented on this web site, can see that words are manipulated in the many versus listed in the Quran. Here is an example:

++ This web site FFI (Facts Fabrications International) manipulates verse 4-11 in the Quran as follows:

----[[Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases (’s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.]]

If we accept such manipulation to the verse presented above, then we can see that

“if a man dies and leaves 2 daughters, his wife and his parents behind we see that Allah prescribes that the survivors should receive of the man’s possession (2/3 + 1/6 +1/6 + 1/8 = 1 1/8)”. Makes anyone wonder if Allah knows math!

++ On the other hand, the true translation of verse 4-11 in the Quran states:

[[Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only women, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases (’s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.]]

A++ s a result, "if a man dies and leaves 2 daughters, his wife and his parents behind we see that Allah prescribes that the survivors should receive of the man’s possession (2/3 + 1/6 +1/6 = 1)".

++ This is only one example of so many fabrications that are being presented on this web site. Any claim presented on this web by Ali Sinner and his supporters need to be investigated thoroughly. Many investigations have been done and it was proved over and over again that his claims are inaccurate and are manipulated.

The Big Fat Lie masquerading as the Truth (a demented mullah I presume) stated: "Your statements are wrong. The prophet Muhammad was indeed illiterate". The Big Fat Lie masquerading as the Truth is either an ignoramus or a liar.
In the Sira (The Life of Muhammad) of Ibn Ishaq we can read under the chapter heading "Expedition of Abdullah b. Jash and the coming down of they will ask you of the sacred month" we can read: "The apostle sent Abdullah b. Jash b. Ri'ab al-Asadi in Rajab on his return from Badr. He sent with him eight emigrants, without any of the Ansaar. HE WROTE HIM A LETTER, and ordered him not to look at it until he journeyed for two days and to do what he was ordered to do, but not put pressure on any of his companions".
The Life of Muhammad, page 286, last paragraph and page 287 first paragraph.
For the convenience of my fellow kaffirs I will explain that the apostle was Muhammad, the emigrants were Meccans who came with Mo to Yathrib, and the Ansaar were Yathrib people who became collaborators or helpers of Mo.

Thank you Mulhid for this evidence. I just looked at your reference in the Sirat. This is even more evidence that Muhammad could write, not just read. This strengthens the claims of the editor in the above posting. (Admin)

Whether Mohammad was lettered or unlettered doesnt matter. Koran has been written and re-written many times, well after the death of mohammad. So, mohammad might have been eloquent but to put it into god-like words is a work of a human that came well after mohammad.

If the Quran is really the word of God, then we are to believe that the Bible is God's Word. The Quran says that God's word cannot be changed. It also says that the Bible IS the Right way. It was not until a few hundred years after the creation of the Quran that Muslims began to say that the Bible was corrupted, when they began to notice they did not agree, but before Mohammad gave the Quran, the Bible had been distributed all over the civilized world. In order for the Bible to have been corrupted, it would be an impossible task for anyone or any group to have gathered up all the Bibles in the world and change and redistribute them. No Muslim can say WHEN It was changed and by whom because it hasn't been. The many seemingly contradictions have been explained and when one is filled with the Holy Spirit, [Comforter]Whom Jesus promised He would send to be IN His disciples and in US, the greatness of God's power is revealed in the Holy Scriptures and the revelation of God's vast dimentional wisdom is illuminated to them explaining what seems to be contradictions.

Mo~Ham~Mad(Houres be upon him) was the filthiest creature in the world history ever known.

Glad to be of service Admin.

The Editor said:

In Islam, there is the claim that when the angel Gibraeel came to Muhammad in the cave, the first things the angel said to Muhammad is “Read”. Yes, the angel wanted Muhammad to read. Now, why would the angel do that? Remember that the angel was sent by Allah. Did Allah not know that Muhammad is, as you claim, unlettered? The fact that the angel asked Muhammad to read shows that Muhammad was in fact able to read.

I say:

A little investigative research is something YOU need to do before you instruct the Muslims to do do it.

The word "Iqra" actually means "Recite." The word Quran (containing the root word Iqra) actually means "Recitation."

So when the Angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in the cave of Hira. He told Muhammad to "Recite." You also conveniently miss out Muhammad's unequivocal and conclusive response regarding his literacy to the Angel (which should really be enough evidence of Muhammad's illiteracy if you were even half objective or even honest). Muhammad replied to Gabriel "I am not a reciter/ learned/reader" (use whichever english translation of the word that tickles your fancy). The Angel then repeated his demand three times and took a hold of Muhammad until the Prophet started "RECITING THE WORDS AFTER THE ANGEL SPOKE THEM" when he realised what the Angel was instructing him to do.

I hope that clarifies your self imposed anamolies.

Forever glad to be of assistance to FFI Editors.

Sincerely yours

Kabir

Hay,Eloquence is not the foremost quality of Mo~Ham~Mad. There is a unique quality of Mo~Ham~Mad which is absent all other people.This is the strength of Mohammad's penis.There is a Sahih Hadith reveals Mohammad's sexual strength is 30 times higher than normal muslim. In whore house Jannat each muslim will have 100 times more sexual strength then the present .This is another Sahih Hadith. So we can say from the above two Hadith that in Paradise Mohammad's penis strength will be 30x100=3000 times more than the available muslim! So tell me why you man don't consider MOhamMad as a unique perfect example to follow. Do you have more strength than he??!!

Bukhari (Vol.4,book 56,no.814)
"There was a Christian who embraced Islam and he used to write the revelations for the Prophet.Later on he returned to Christianity again he used to say:' Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.'"

I'm guessing that this Christian guy wrote most of the Qur'an for Muhammad.

Kabirlaw:
I'd understood that in Islam "Iqra" means to read and "yatloo" means recite.
Meanings from Islamic-dictionary.com
Comment?

As an aside it is worth noting that there are any number of "Iqra" bookshops, newspapers, publishers etc.
Makes more sense if it means "read" than "recitation" doesn't it?

The claim by Muhammad that he was visited by spiderman jibreel itself could be a fake. There were no witnesses and the entire quran stands on these alleged revealations. Remember muhammads allah was a 'kairul makerein' the best of deceivers. It doesnt matter whether muhammad was told to read or recite, lets not shift the focus, muhammads word cannot be trusted.

To Kabirlaw and Jonc

Yes Iqra means Read, and not Recite. I grew up in the middle east and spoke Arabic growing up. The angel asked Muhammad to read not recite. Jonc is correct. Kabirlaw is wrong on this one.
Also, look at this Kabir from Ibn Jeylan quoted article above:

"
Muhammad told the angel Gibriel that he could not read in their first encounter. How can you refute that? Well, in Arabic, Muhammad told the angel “Ma ana biqari’” which may mean many meanings. It can mean “ I do not want to read” or “I do not feel like reading” or “I am not in the mood to read”. I also would like to draw the reader’s attention, here, to the fact that when Gabriel asked Muhammad to read implies that Allah and Gabriel knew that Muhammad could do some reading. Why else would the angel ask Muhammad to read? So, actually, the angel’s request of Muhammad to read assumes Muhammad’s ability to read. This is evidence in favor of my view.
"
Ibn Jeylan's analysis is correct here.

Again Kabirlaw, I believe you are wrong.

Thanks

Kabirlaw Comment ID #27277

Iqra definitely means "read" and not "recite". If not, then how do you explain the full Quranic verses (Pickthall The Clot 96:1-5)

1. "Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth
2. Creatheth man from a clot.
3. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
4. WHO TEACHETH BY THE PEN
5. Teacheth man that which he knew not.

If your Allah was referring to "reciting" then why even mention THE PEN in the very same sequence of verses and the very same Sura.

Ha - let's see you weasel your way out of that!

Incidentally the story you mentioned about Angel Gabriel and the revelation in the cave at Mt Hira are NOT in the Quran. How come you Quranists, who only accept non-conflicting Hadiths when it suits them, are now relating a story straight out of the Siras and Hadiths? Double standards?

Shafee al-Zindig - hats of to you man, NO Muslim PIG can Refute/Answer you. I have read All your comments in this site and Islam-watch. Keep Up your good work by enlightening Brain Dead Muslims.

Where the idea that Mohammed was unlettered came to Muslims? It came because he was described in the Quran as ummi. Nowadays, this word is used to refer to unlettered people but was never used for that reason in the past. Until recently, the only meaning for the word ummi was to mean ‘from the people’ or ' a normal person'. It is derived from the Arabic word umma which means nation. In fact the word ummi was normally used to refer to the non Jewish. The Quran used the word ummi many times, always as a derivative of the word ummi.

The Muslims' claims that Mohammed was unlettered puts them, and their religion, in far more serious troubles.

Mohammed was learned although the Arabic language itself had not yet a fully developed script. Mohammed’s sira confirms that. When Mohammed was in his terminal illness, he asked for some material to write on his advice to his followers, a request that was declined by Omar on the basis that Mohammed was not in his right mind!

Finally, a response to comment 27226:
You claim that you read the articles on FFI. You can only be a liar or you didn’t understand a word of what is written. Well, probably you are both. There is a considerable amount of time and effort invested in any article I write about Islam. I exhaust the Islamic sources and make sure that I defend what I write. If there are any errors, that is because my sources (Quran, Hadith, Sira, Tafseer) are full with errors. You cheat yourself and you dumb your human qualities for the sake of a cult introduced by a liar and based on a book that that is littered with errors from cover to cover.

To Shafee Comment Id # 27307

"Iqra definitely means “read” and not “recite”. If not, then how do you explain the full Quranic verses (Pickthall The Clot 96:1-5) "

2. Creatheth man from a clot

---->Much has been written about CLOT believers

21.30 & 24.45 says from water

19.67 Says from nothing

3.59 & 35.11 says from clay

15.26 Says from mud

16.3 & 75.37 Says from a thickened liquid

SO WHICH PART OF THE QURAN IS RIGHT? WRONG

r/ hats of/Hats Off

Mumin Salih - be Patient ,The Truth (Lie) will realize the truth and Join us very soon.

Correction: In the previous post:
“The Quran used the word ummi many times, always as a derivative of the word ummi.”
This should read: The Quran used the word ummi أمي , ummiyun أميون , ummieen أميين many times, always as a derivative of the word umma أمه

Arp
Thanks for the kind words. Kabirlaw will probably say, in his usual sarcastic way, "it's only preaching to the converted." As if WE are looking for converts. We are all free souls who are not prepared to surrender our minds to Islamic Imperialism. We seek no reward for liberating human minds trapped in servile bondage to Islam. We seek merely to educate them that they don't need to live in such fear of hellfire and their OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) worrying constantly about the proper and timely observances of man-made rituals to satisfy Muhammad's vanity to see people grovel 5-times daily at his commands and sole say-so. Allah had NOTHING to do with it.

What thanks do we get from these deluded victim's of Muhammad's self-serving lies? The ingrate Muslims, as happened in Medina 1400 years ago,curse US, insult US and seek to harm US when all we are doing is seeking to free their minds.

BTW
Another thought about this disputed word "iqra's" true meaning - whether it's "read" or "recite". How come Allah in his infinite wisdom couldn't foresee all this confusion to later generations? He (Muhammad really) claims the Quran is WRITTEN in CLEAR Arabic. When even so many learned moolas disagree about so many verses in the Quran and their real meaning, then we know Muhammad lied. The Quran is NOT clear!

To Shafee al-Zindig and others;
This is in reply to Comment ID #27307
October 13, 2009 • 6:11 pm

----You stated ["Iqra definitely means “read” and not “recite”. If not, then how do you explain the full Quranic verses (Pickthall The Clot 96:1-5)
1. “Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth
2. Creatheth man from a clot.
3. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
4. WHO TEACHETH BY THE PEN
5. Teacheth man that which he knew not.
If your Allah was referring to “reciting” then why even mention THE PEN in the very same sequence of verses and the very same Sura. Ha – let’s see you weasel your way out of that!"]

Another Fact Fabrication by (FFI) and anti-Muslim propaganda who translates the Quran as they please to prove their logical fallacies:

Once again, FFI (Facts Fabrications International) and their supporters have been proven wrong.

To Arp
This is in reply Comment ID #27328
October 13, 2009 • 7:37 pm .

----You stated ["Mumin Salih – be Patient ,The Truth (Lie) will realize the truth and Join us very soon."]

++ Anyone should be interested in the truth and nothing but the truth. All claims that have been presented by you, Ali Sinner and his supporters have been proven false. Valid evidence must be based on true facts, accurate translations, and without manipulation. No such valid evidence has been presented yet. To the contrary, this web site and others like it, provide pure propaganda and pure lies.

++ Unless, true and accurate information is presented to prove Islam is wrong, one must make the right choice. That choice must be Islam.

Twisted Tuth:

"++ Anyone should be interested in the truth and nothing but the truth. All claims that have been presented by you, Ali Sinner and his supporters have been proven false. Valid evidence must be based on true facts, accurate translations, and without manipulation. No such valid evidence has been presented yet. To the contrary, this web site and others like it, provide pure propaganda and pure lies.

++ Unless, true and accurate information is presented to prove Islam is wrong, one must make the right choice. That choice must be Islam."

What evidence have you ever presented to prove Islam is right? What evidence do you have to prove that the voices Mohammad heard were from God and that was not a schizophrenic.
Truth, if you make a claim it is up to you prove it. Where is the logic you keep talking about.

Moderators, I am bit off-track here. Excuse me for that. But this news is of utmost importance to all kafirs. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYtJKJkH1Y ; a 17-yr school girl was raped by two muslim goons in a moving car. These two youths were caught and got a good public beating. In the video, I enjoyed watching the woman kicking the rapist. The rapists were doing some stageshow before kidnapping the school girl. Seeing the public outburst, the Gujarath police first allowed the public to vent their anger on the culprits and then arrested them… Good move naah?

To The good atheist
This is in reply to Comment ID #27365
October 14, 2009 • 12:29 am .Twisted Tuth:

You stated ["What evidence have you ever presented to prove Islam is right? What evidence do you have to prove that the voices Mohammad heard were from God and that was not a schizophrenic.
Truth, if you make a claim it is up to you prove it. Where is the logic you keep talking about."]

++ The true evidence is in the Quran. Read it very carefully. Analyze every statement in it very carefully. You will find the required proof.

++ Do not rely on inaccurate translated versions of the Quran such as the one done by "Abdullah Yousif Ali" and many others who lack deep understanding of the Arabic and English language. Accurate translation of the Quran is a must for anyone who needs to understand the religion of Islam in a truthful and unbiased way.

To Dajjal
This is in reply to Comment ID #27325
October 13, 2009 • 7:30 pm

----You stated [" Creatheth man from a clot —-> Much has been written about CLOT believers

21.30 & 24.45 says from water
19.67 Says from nothing
3.59 & 35.11 says from clay
15.26 Says from mud
16.3 & 75.37 Says from a thickened liquid
SO WHICH PART OF THE QURAN IS RIGHT? WRONG"]

++ 21.30 - This verse does not talk about creation. It says that every living creature needs water to survive.
++ 24.45 - This verse states that Allah created only animals from water.
++ 19.67 - This verse does not talk about creation. It says that man was created some time ago.
++ 03.59 - This verse says that Adam was created from clay.
++ 35.11 - This verse says that man is created from clay.
++ 15.26 - This verse says that man is created from clay.
++ 16.03 - This verse talks about the stages of man being in the womb.
++ 75-37 - This verse describes the stages of man being in the womb.

++ Before anyone considers the truthfulness of any FFI (Facts Fabrications International) arguments, one must check first if the verses in the Quran have been translated accurately and without manipulation. Yet, none of the mentioned translated versus on this web site and others like it have accurate translations.

To All;

++ Someone has stated that the Quran is full of contradictions and stated the following:

—-["Much has been written about CLOT believers
21.30 & 24.45 says from water
19.67 Says from nothing
3.59 & 35.11 says from clay
15.26 Says from mud
16.3 & 75.37 Says from a thickened liquid

SO WHICH PART OF THE QURAN IS RIGHT? WRONG"]

++ 21.30 – This verse does not talk about creation. It says that every living creature needs water to survive.
++ 24.45 – This verse states that Allah created only animals from water.
++ 19.67 – This verse does not talk about creation. It says that man was created some time ago.
++ 03.59 – This verse says that Adam was created from clay.
++ 35.11 – This verse says that man is created from clay.
++ 15.26 – This verse says that man is created from clay.
++ 16.03 – This verse talks about the stages of man being in the womb.
++ 75-37 – This verse describes the stages of man being in the womb.

++ Before anyone considers the truthfulness of any FFI (Facts Fabrications International) arguments, one must check first if the verses in the Quran have been translated accurately and without manipulation. Yet, none of the mentioned translated versus on this web site and others like it have been proven to be accurate translations. Thus, no arguments presented on this web site and others like it to prove Islam is wrong must be accepted.

Hey the qrand is the only book of truth. There is in it the whole truth, nothing but truth and very very few people have correctly understood the qrand. Right there, does it make you feel better? Moslem?

The unTruth
Comment ID #27361

Where on earth did you get such a confusing translation from? Please tell us by whom. Did you suck this travesty of a translation out of thin air? My knowledge of Arabic and reading all translations show deception on your part. Projection is when one accuses others of doing what one actually does.

"Qalam" means "Writing cane" and "Iqra" means "Invoke"? Now I've heard it all!

Anyway, if you really understood English, you would KNOW there is no real difference between a pen and a writing cane. As for "Iqra" meaning "Invoke"" give me a break!

So stop irritating us with such shameless lies if you want to be treated seriously!

Iqra/ igra means read. Ektib means write. Qlam means any writing material like pen pencil etc. This fellow has no arabic knowledge what so ever but is ready to defend the indefensible qrand

Truth:
Here's an easy one for you. For wrote: "Accurate translation is a must..."
I quite agree. What translation do you recommend?

Accurate translation is possible only if you can understand classical arabic and your language of kafirs! Even if you understand arabic( like me!) then your heart must understand arabic and believe in allah dalal. If you dont believe in dalal allah, then translation does not reflect the exact meaning because allah has what's that phrase again? has put darkness in your hearts.Ahh but for a true believer qrand is simple and clear as a nursery rhyme like allah dalal , rasool mohammad and moslems are like three blind mice! Three blind mice, three blind mice, one is dalal the other is his client and the rest are merely in side line.
Or simple as simple simon went to the fare. Saw the dalal and stuck a deal and aksked for 14 instead of 4 women and the dalal said fine only for you.

I have a question to all the knowledgeable people on this site. What is the status of Ibn Ishaq's Sira with the muslims? Did the scholars of Qom or Al Azhar threw the Sira in the dustbin? In the Sira Mo wrote instructions for Abdullah ibn Jash ibn Riab al Asadi in a letter. The content of the letter has been known too. In it Mo told Abdullah ibn Jash: "When you have read THIS LETTER OF MINE proceed until you reach Nakla between Mecca and Al-Ta'if. Lie in wait therefor Quraysh and find out what they are doing ". The Sira page 287. The written words of the unholy prophet himself recorded by Ibn Ishaq.

In response to The Truth post 27389,

You try to prove Islam’s claims by saying: “Read the quran”, and pointing to miracles. But many Muslims have read the quran and then apostated. And the miracles are shown to be fabricated in the sense that their discoverers just made whatever they meant to discover just fit in, as Ibn Kammuna explained.

After Mohammed mankind kept searching for the truth and came up with many scientific facts and much better explanations than the Quran & Hadiths could, simply because of advanced technology and insights. Now the Quran & Hadiths of the 7th to 9th century must compete with many newer scientific facts, theories and insights. On top of that Islam-critics expose every flaw, fault and shortcoming or contradiction they can find in Quran & Hadiths. And there are countless of them by now, aiming to do this for a long time and getting ever better at it.

So I think you are on a hopeless "crusade", however knowledgeable, logical and good you are. Or how many there are of you. You can beat a part of the scientific and Islam-critical claims, proofs and logical arguments but never all.

But there may be another way out for Muslims; that of submitting themselves to democracy and supporting that massively worldwide. This would take away the biggest chunk of motivation of people to criticize-shame-ridicule and oppose Islam. It would bring most Muslims peace with most Westerners and Indians.

The Truth it is time to throw your LIE into the bin. LOL

Kabirlaw if iqra means recite then how come there is an Iqra publications,Iqra book center, Iqra University ( In Karachi, Iqra Educational Foundation and exc.?

Twisted Truth says:
"++ The true evidence is in the Quran. Read it very carefully. Analyze every statement in it very carefully. You will find the required proof.

++ Do not rely on inaccurate translated versions of the Quran such as the one done by “Abdullah Yousif Ali” and many others who lack deep understanding of the Arabic and English language. Accurate translation of the Quran is a must for anyone who needs to understand the religion of Islam in a truthful and unbiased way."

All the non Muslims who have been debating you and your friends are more believable than you are. It seems the only way you can convince people to accept Islam is by brainwashing them. Instead of being truthful you have been very deceiptful. What you say and what I see Islamic nations practice are completely different. Nations like Saudi Arabia have a lot more credibility about Islam than an individual such as yourself. We know that Islam allows you to lie for Islam and like a good Muslim you are doing just that, lying. Ask yourself, if Islam is for real, why do you have to be so deceptive?

I've just noticed something, why would the angel Gabriel tell Mohammed to 'icra' i.e. read when he did not bring any physical book to him just spoken word??? It is actually the word 'Qu'ran' according to many arab sources what means by recitation.

The word 'icra' i believe is a command directed to the reader of the book and not what was actually said to Mohammed (if anything at all was said to him).

Remember the Qu'ran was delivered over 23 years starting with the prophets first revelation in 610, standardised and compilled into a physical book in 653/654 by the caliph Uthman. Mohammed died in 632. Giving us at least 40 years of chinese whispering, heresay accounts and flimsy notes on leaves.

Why do you muslims delude yourself with nonsense like 'infallable truth' when a simple sentance like 'The cat sat on the mat backwards with a rat' whispered around 30 people would almost certainly come up with a different sentence let alone a whole BOOK!

I remember the conversation I had some time ago with a moslem from egypt.He said to me You know mr /mrs proud kafir qrand is the only book delivered to human beings and copy of it is in gold in heaven! I tell him how very interesting.Is that gold 22 or 24 carot?
I said to him see the hindu books are available in platinum! He was a bit taken aback. Its just his belief that qrand is inheaven in gold and it's my belief that all hindu books are in Heaven in Platinum. See the stupidity of moslems. The present egyptians are the stupidest lot and they have no semblance what so ever to the original egyptians.
Another gem from the same egyptian cretin.Arabic is the oldest language in the world! Stupidest language spoken by the stupidest people yes. No doubt

Dagger Comment ID #27608:
I think that you have made a very valid point about the command to "Read!" being to those reading the Koran rather than to Mo himself.
However, this does not alter the meaning of "Iqra" to "recite", "invoke" or anything else, which was what 'Truth' was trying to do.

However, that does not get around the fact that Mo is recorded as having written a letter - which implies that he could read as well. (Sira p 287).

However, in the spirit of fairness, he may have been "unlettered" in the sense that he could neither read nor write Greek or Persian - the languages of the powerful empires around him at the time.

Off All the Angels in Heaven The Arabic Allah
pick angel Gabriel....... Why...... can somebody
explain....??????