Muhammad: The Wise Assassin
Submitted by Ibn Kammuna on Sat, 06/27/2009 - 06:20
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Introduction Many people don’t know it, but the holy prophet was a wise man. Even when he ordered the assassination of other people, he made sure there are some lessons to be learned by the Muslim Ummah. In this article, we discuss the “holy” assassination of Ka’b Bin Al-Ashraf. After all, since Muhammad was a Un”Holy” prophet, it is deserving to call his assassinations Un”holy”. We, good Muslims, need to tweak some supposedly “negative” moral concepts like assassinations, so that they look good if the holy prophet (PBUH) did them. The story of this assassination can be found in many sources. Let us start from the “Sirat” (The Life of Muhammad – A translation of Ibn Ishaq’s SIRAT RASUL ALLAH. Translated by A. Guillaume). The full story can be found on pages 364 through 368. The “Sirat” Story of the assassination of Ka’b In the battle of Badr, which the Meccans lost to the Muslims, many were killed. Amongst them were some of the Meccan respected leaders (pp.364-5). When Ka’b, one of the Bani Al-Nadir leaders (A Jewish tribe that lived in Medina) heard of the news, he was very upset and saddened, especially on hearing the death of two of the Meccan leaders whom he respected and loved (Zayd and Abdullah bin Rawaha). He was saddened by the news, and went to Mecca. And stayed with Al-Muttalib bin Abu Wada’a who was married to Atika bint Abul Is. She took him in and entertained him hospitably. As a side note here we can see how the role of women in Mecca in pre-Islamic times was honorable. They were an active part of the household. Nowadays, when you go to a true Muslims house, women are hidden in the inner part of the house. You can only visit with the men if you are a male. From all that I read about the role of women in Pre-Islamic times in the Arabian peninsula was more dignified and had an active participation in the social life of the community that went staggered when Islam ruled. Moving along, Ka’b bewailed the slain of Quraysh in the battle of Badr. He composed some poetry that was mostly grieving for the dead (pp.365-7). Then he composed amatory verses of an insulting nature about the Muslim women. Does such a behavior demand a plot of assassination? Off course not. But, according to the holy prophet it does. Here is what Muhammad said:
Who will rid me of Ibnul’Ashraf (Meaning Ka’b. Muhammad Just wanted him killed)
Muhammad bin Maslama answers the call of the prophet of doom and says:I will deal with him for you, O apostle of Allah, I will kill him
And Muhammad answers:Do so if you can (note how the holy prophet is not pushing it. He is telling him to do it if only he can! This is a good moral lesson for us good Muslims. We only assassinate when we can! The idea that assassination is morally wrong just does not exist in the mind of an evil cult leader like Muhammad.)
Then Muhammad bin Maslama goes on a fasting spree for three days aside from what is absolutely necessary. The prophet summoned him after that and asked him why he gave up eating and drinking. Bin Maslama tells the prophet that this assassination undertaking may be difficult to fulfill. And, again, the prophet assures Muhammad bin Maslama by saying “All that is incumbent upon you is that you should try.” What a passionate prophet! He is just giving Bin Maslama the green light to try to kill someone, and assures him that things will be okay, even if he fails to kill Ka’b. And again, the moral predicate of killing another human being for no good reason, if a reason at all, does not come to the mind of this evil prophet. Muhammad bin Maslama, then, tells the prophet “ O apostle of Allah, we shall have to tell lies” upon which the prophet answers “Say what you like, for you are free in the matter”. So far we have two major moral dilemmas that are rejected by any decent human being, but are accepted and encouraged by prophet Muhammad: assassination and lying. The story continues, and Bin Maslama and others, including a foster brother of Ka’b, go to see Ka’b and visit with him and recite poetry and talk in a negative tone about the prophet. They ask Ka’b to give them food for their families on account of paying him back later. An agreement issues that they’ll come back for this end and bring him weapons to leave as a pledge that they’ll pay him back. It was Ka’b's foster brother who suggested weapons. Ka’b accepted that. But his foster brother’s idea is not to get him, Ka’b, alarmed when he sees them back carrying weapons. The men go back and meet with the prophet. The prophet was supportive and walked with them a good distance on their night trip to go and assassinate Ka’b. Then he sent them saying “Go in Allah’s name. O Allah help them.” As you can see, prophet Muhammad was such a supportive man. He enlisted Allah’s help to assassinate a man!. The story continues with these men going to Ka’b's castle. His foster brother calls him while he is in bed. Ka’b had been recently married. His wife had a sixth sense and said to him “ You are at war, and those who are at war do not go out at this hour”. Ka’b is not bothered by her comment, I suspect mainly because his foster brother was calling. Those of us who have foster children or brothers or sisters know that such individuals are family. It is this sense of security, I believe, that delivered Ka’b to his enemies (by the way, using a family member to kill another was utilized at least twice by Muhammad. This incident is one of them. Ali Sina mentions another interesting story about a son plotting and killing his father. This is a behavior that can be seen in cult members – see Sina’s book 2nd edition, pages 232-3). In any case, Ka’b’s wife still tells him about his foster brother “ By God, I can feel evil in his voice”. Even so, her words did not get through to Ka’b and he goes out to see the men who came to see him. They play a cheap trick of smelling the perfume on his head and complementing him on that. Bin Maslama finally gets a hold of his head and tells his companions “Smite the enemy of Allah”. To his credit, Ka’b gave out a good fight, but with many men attacking him, he was on the losing end, and died. After that assassination, the four Muslim men involved in the incident go to the apostle of Allah, prophet Muhammad, at the end of the night and salute him while he was praying! (that must have been some prayer considering the evil he had plotted that very night!). Muhammad comes out to them and they tell him that they had just killed Allah’s enemy. One of the men was wounded and bleeding from the attack on Ka’b. Muhammad spat on the wounds and all men went back to their families afterwards. The Muslim Ummah had triumphed again, by assassinating another human being. One of the interesting parts of the above story is having a foster brother of Ka’b, who is really just like a blood brother, involved in the assassination incident. It is very difficult to understand this without understanding the mentality of a cult member, and how a cult transforms family members to become real enemies. It is this part of the story that made Ka’b vulnerable to the Muslims. Without his foster brother involved with the Muslims, we believe Ka’b would have been able to live another day. However, this was not to be. Prophet Muhammad’s evil intentions against him fully materialized on that cursed night. Hadith Narrations Regarding the Assassination of Ka’b Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271: Narrated Jabir: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)." Bukhari Volume 3, Book 45, Number 687: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Who would kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf as he has harmed Allah and His Apostle ?" Muhammad bin Maslama (got up and) said, "I will kill him." So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to Ka'b and said, "I want a loan of one or two Wasqs of food grains." Ka'b said, "Mortgage your women to me." Muhammad bin Maslama said, "How can we mortgage our women, and you are the most handsome among the Arabs?" He said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." Muhammad said, "How can we mortgage our sons, as the people will abuse them for being mortgaged for one or two Wasqs of food grains? It is shameful for us. But we will mortgage our arms to you." So, Muhammad bin Maslama promised him that he would come to him next time. They (Muhammad bin Maslama and his companions came to him as promised and murdered him. Then they went to the Prophet and told him about it. Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka'b). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Ka'b and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf." Muslim Chapter 41: THE MURDER OF KA'B B. ASHRAF, (THE EVIL GENIUS) OF THE JEWSBook 019, Number 4436: It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like). So, Muhammad b. Maslama came to Ka'b and talked to him, referred to the old friendship between them and said: This man (i. e. the Holy Prophet) has made up his mind to collect charity (from us) and this has put us to a great hardship. When be heard this, Ka'b said: By God, you will be put to more trouble by him. Muhammad b. Maslama said: No doubt, now we have become his followers and we do not like to forsake him until we see what turn his affairs will take. I want that you should give me a loan. He said: What will you mortgage? He said: What do you want? He said: Pledge me your women. He said: You are the most handsome of the Arabs; should we pledge our women to you? He said: Pledge me your children. He said: The son of one of us may abuse us saying that he was pledged for two wasqs of dates, but we can pledge you (cur) weapons. He said: All right. Then Muhammad b. Maslama promised that he would come to him with Harith, Abu 'Abs b. Jabr and Abbad b. Bishr. So they came and called upon him at night. He came down to them. Sufyan says that all the narrators except 'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder. He said: It is only Muhammad b. Maslama and his foster-brother, Abu Na'ila. When a gentleman is called at night even it to be pierced with a spear, he should respond to the call. Muhammad said to his companions: As he comes down, I will extend my hands towards his head and when I hold him fast, you should do your job. So when he came down and he was holding his cloak under his arm, they said to him: We sense from you a very fine smell. He said: Yes, I have with me a mistress who is the most scented of the women of Arabia. He said: Allow me to smell (the scent on your head). He said: Yes, you may smell. So he caught it and smelt. Then he said: Allow me to do so (once again). He then held his head fast and said to his companions: Do your job. And they killed him. Muslim Apologetics Defense of Muhammad’s crime in Assassinating Ka’b Bin Al-Ashraf Sami Zaatari (Link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_silas_2.htm In a response to a gentleman named Silas, who raised some issues against Muhammad regarding his assassination of Ka’b, Mr. Zaatari is keen on defending the prophet no matter what. According to Zaatari, Ka’b brought that upon himself. He says: the prophet Muhammad killed Kab because Kab incited people to kill Muhammad. So therefore no crime was done. Zaatari’s defence rests on the fact that Ka’b went to Mecca and incited people to kill Muhammad. True, Ka’b did talk negative about the Muslims camp. His Meccan friends were killed by the Muslims. He was weeping with the Meccans in Mecca for the death of their honorable men who were also his friends. What would you do if those leaders of slain Meccans were your friends? Are you supposed to go to the Muslim camp and recite the Shahada? I find Kab’s reaction very understandable. But at the same time, he was not conspiring to assassinate Muhammad. In fact, the story of assassinating Ka’b shows that Ka’b never talked about assassinating Muhammad. It did show his belief that those who follow Muhammad are doing themselves a disservice. But it is evident he had no “killing” claims against the Muslims. His foster brother was one of the Muslims, and he, Ka’b, was willing to give them food they requested for sustenance. That does not tell me that Ka’b had it in him to kill the Muslims. The claim that Ka’b just wanted to kill Muslims does not stand critical scrutiny. But wait, this is not the total picture here. Let us assume that Ka’b did in fact incite the Meccans to go to war against the Muslims, does that make his assassination a morally acceptable behavior? Does not a prophet of Allah need to warn Ka’b about his behavior first? Does not a prophet of Allah need to have a direct combat with Ka’b if he wanted him dead? An honorable route of killing Ka’b would be a direct face-to-face combat with the Muslims. Did Muhammad do that? No. He resorted to trickery, lying and to sending assassins in the dark of the night. That does not speak but one thing about Muhammad: He was an EVIL man.
Mohammad was the evil man
Mohammad was the evil man with an eviler message and that's Islam.Islam is evil any which way you look and practice and prach.Dump islam you dumb moslems. The copy paste monkey must be angrier now. Jumping from tree to tree or site to site!
I was stupid enough to engage
I was stupid enough to engage myself in a discussion on the net with a hard core muslim under my full name in my country. After that I received death threats on my email and sms. These muslims are dangerous and completely mad. I have removed my name on my doorbell and I had to get a safe phonenumber. So I have learned a lesson, muslim minds are in the 700 hundreds and they will never change. Now I have to be careful and look over my shoulder everytime I go out. Policeprotection is no option, if they want to kill me they will do it anyway
Ah, Sami Zaatari is the most
Ah, Sami Zaatari is the most disgusting, inconsistent and ignorant muslim apologist I have ever read about. No matter how much his apologetics have been shredded apart by a consistently clever, articulate and sharp Sam Shamoun but Zaatari keep on being just that, a terrible ignoramus. It is a huge shame to muslims to have this man represent islam.
THE PROPHET MOHAMAMD IS THE
THE PROPHET MOHAMAMD IS THE GREATEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED!!!!! After myself the, Mahdi and the 12 Imams (peace be upon them).
You filthy mosad agents! Trying to demonize our holy prophet! You jews will burn for your vile iniquities and lies against HIM. Why don’t you go KILL SOME PROPHETS, YOUR NATIONAL PASSTIME!
Our prophet holy Men! He never killed anyone. This is evil Jew lie. Nobody ever got killed at Banu Quraiza, it is a lie of false sunni hadith invented by false Jewish converts who secretly follow Jewish whore goddess lillit and tried to discredit him.
Mohamamd never massacred or assassinated anyone its all lies. Mohammed was a peaceful and loving man exactly like the prophet Isa (PBUH). Everything is lies against the great man mohamamd who did more for humanity than anybody else.
He never killed anyone, he never had sex with little girls, he never raped slave girls, he never have big orgies, he never did camel raids, he never assassinated political enemies. This is as usual just lies invented by the Jews, the sons of falsehood. May the wrath of Allah be upon them!
Mohamamd was just like mahatma ganghi in every single way, except that he wasnt a filthy pagan.
ALHAMDULLAH!
assalamalaikum mahdi, i have
assalamalaikum mahdi,
i have a boil on my thing down there, what would be the best mahdication?,
some hadith says mixing camel urine and soaking water from mahdi turban will heal it, im asking clarification on how autenthic is this hadith, and how many times a day should i drink it?
alhamdullah!
A question for Muslims Why
A question for Muslims
Why didn't your prophet ask his pal the angel Gabriel to kill his enemies? Wouldn't it have been easier? Why get his gullible followers to do his dirty work?
Gabriel is supposed to have performed all sorts of miracles for Muhammad such as bringing him the Quran in thrilling installments, helping him to win the battle of Badr with his formidable legions of avenging angels, showing him his future bride baby Ayesha all wrapped up in fine silk, taking him to heaven by conjuring up the flying horse Buraq with the face of a woman, splitting the moon and all other sorts of miracles. So Gabriel could have done it all so easily.
Surely it can't be that this Gabriel was only a figment of his fevered imagination. Even little baby Ayesha could tell he was a fibber when he supposedly introduced Gabriel to her. "You see him but I don't" she innocently replied. On another occasion, when the old lecher falsely claimed that Allah wanted him to marry his adopted son's wife Zainab she said "I see your Allah is very quick to fulfill your wishes."
The wisdom of children as demonstrated by baby Ayesha is aptly shown in the story "The Emperor's New Clothes" and also 2 very apt Biblical verses:-
Psalms viii. 2 "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hath thou ordained strength"
Matthew xxi.16 Jesus saith unto them [the Pharisees], "Yea; have ye never read, 'Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise."
Come now you valiant Muslims. The honor of your prophet is at stake here. Who will defend him? No copy and paste please.
I was talking to my Muslim
I was talking to my Muslim friends( by birth Muslims) , who told me they have never read whole of qu'rand( except what is required to perform the rituals during Friday prayers and Islamic festivals like Ramadan and Haj ) and have no idea about the Hadiths: so I told them about this site. Now it seems some of them consider this site FFI same as any other Anti-Islamic site.
Particularly the new site. Those who read the old one: they could learn more about the evils of Islam, and are active participants of the old FFI forum .
I think copy/paste articles can't motivate intelligent by birth Muslims to learn about the evils of Islam. They need some original articles: such as articles by Ali Sina and his like, not just some copy/paste writers.
Articles by self proclaimed
Articles by self proclaimed Christian converts can't convince any intelligent by birth Muslim ; that Islam is evil. Belief systems like Christianity and Islam are evil is a fact , known to every intelligent person ,whether they are Muslims or Christians by birth or not.
The truth Mr. Ali Sina ( An ex-Muslim) talking about has nothing to do with any belief system I suppose.
Ali Sina says " Only Truth can set you free " I think : Only when one is free from all belief systems , one can find the Truth.
ibnsahr thats an authetic
ibnsahr
thats an authetic hadith, i drink urine camel urine all the time. you should too
A000Z islam is not evil you
A000Z
islam is not evil you filthy mosad agent!
how could anybody consider a religion whcih treats people so well evil?
Thanks Mr Ibn Kammuna for
Thanks Mr Ibn Kammuna for your article.
Reading this story again after forgoing much of the datails before, makes me wonder how evil Muhammad turned out to be.
However, let's not forget that the immediate companions and families of Muhammad were not on friendly terms. This resulting in decapitation and murder of one another in battlefied of Jamel, Siffin ,Nahrawan, etc. This perhaps was the retribution that visited them for acting so cunning and cowardly towards their enemies before. It could be some sort of divine retribution that punished them for their trickery.
Humanity is but one family. :)
The pre-muhammed arabia was
The pre-muhammed arabia was secular and people with different faiths lived together happily. The women were free, leader of caravans, poets, thinkers and lived happily. I guess some prostitues used to wear hijab type thing, so that they can choose guys from streets and without anybody noticing this.
Muhammed thought each women as prostitute and thats why he forced women hijab.
Khadiza was an intelligent women and she might have kept muhammed as just a normal servant and have not allowed him to seek any other women, just think of a man till 40 years have to live with an elderly women and live on her income. When she died he was sexually starved and so before his death he satisfied his lust. He hardly left any girl who he can lay his hand on.
he degraded the women's life.
shame on muslim women who have the chance to leave hijab are still wearing it.
The Retarded Mahdi
The Retarded Mahdi complained:
"Nobody ever got killed at Banu Quraiza, it is a lie of false sunni hadith invented by false Jewish converts who secretly follow Jewish whore goddess lillit and tried to discredit him."
Solve your problem with sunni people, not here. Do you have the gut? Or you just another big mouth garbage.
"He never killed anyone, he never had sex with little girls, he never raped slave girls, he never have big orgies, he never did camel raids, he never assassinated political enemies."
Ah, yes..yes. and don't forget he also never became a prophet.
"This is as usual just lies invented by the Jews, the sons of falsehood"
Oh.. jews are capable of doing almost everything, aren't they? The whole world is orchestrated by jews. What a chosen race indeed.
"May the wrath of Allah be upon them!"
Well, personally i don't care, but where is that curse? i don't see them anywhere. WANTED...A WORKING ALLAH'S CURSE.
#2. tarzan Says: I was stupid
#2. tarzan Says:
I was stupid enough to engage myself in a discussion on the net with a hard core muslim under my full name in my country. After that I received death threats on my email and sms. These muslims are dangerous and completely mad.
Time to go back to the jungle I suppose
--
On a serious note, if you are living in a rented house, please consider shifting to another locality, if its your own house, shifting becomes a bit tough though, but you could still give your own house on rent and stay in a rented place for a year or so.... I really pray for you.
Tarzan, why did you use your
Tarzan, why did you use your full name in the 1st place??? This is not christianity whom you're dealing with. It's a bunch of barbaric assassin. Maybe you're accustomed to criticize christians and you forgot what kind of people your opponent are.
This is Islam's most holy
This is Islam's most holy prophet: A lying, genocidal maniac, sexual pervert, and child molester.
I refuse to be a victim of
I refuse to be a victim of those idiots. But ofcourse I see now it was stupid of me to give my full name, anyhow I answered one mail and told the person if they were serious about their threats they have to remember I would be a martyr as well with the consequenses for them. It was a weak threat but I hope it worked
tarzan: I refuse to be a
tarzan:
I refuse to be a victim of those idiots. But ofcourse I see now it was stupid of me to give my full name, anyhow I answered one mail and told the person if they were serious about their threats they have to remember I would be a martyr as well with the consequenses for them. It was a weak threat but I hope it worked
I say:
Here's an idea: If you do hear from them again tell them if they kill you, you will come back as an evil spirit as you made a pact with the devil to give you special powers when you die and you will make their life a living hell.
mahdi thank you very much,
mahdi
thank you very much, may bless from allah be upon you.
thats good thing you still keep remember those 1400 years old teaching in this 21sr century, allhamdullah
another insane mahdi told me to eat date mix with camel's dung to fix my cataract, so i can see clear the unjust from american kafirs and jews ape, who prosecuting muslim around the world in the name of their holy book, and the injustice from people in kafir land by denying sharia law upon ummah, who come to make everyone submit to allah, insa'allah
Following the footsteps of
Following the footsteps of Muhammad, Muslims are killing non-Muslims in the name of Allah. The following story is an incident in Godhra (Gujarath) where 60 Hindus were burnt alive in a train. When Hindus attacked back, the secular media--controlled by Marxists and Christian missionary groups-- took no time in blaming Hindus as terrorists. Everywhere in the world, Islamic terrorists are aided by backstabbers.
"I shall not allow the sacrifice of my parents to go in vein "- Godhra Victim
27/06/2009 12:47:42 Courtesy: VSK Gujarat
Ahmedabad: The torching of coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express on February 27, 2002, was planned, said Gayatri Panchal (24), whose parents and two sisters were killed in the carnage incident.
Charges have been framed against 100 people accused in the case. The dates for the recording of evidence have also been fixed. Evidence in the case will be recorded on July 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 8. The Gujarat Police had submitted 19 chargesheets in the case, in which the accused were charged under the provisions of the controversial Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA), among others.
Gayatri’s Disclosure
On the 27th February, the Ahmedabad bound Sabarmati Express, carrying
karsevaks from Ayodhya was barbarously attacked and burnt at Godhra in which around 60 karsevaks laid their lives. Gayatri Panchal a young eleventh class student was also amongst those who were returning from Ayodhya. She is a surviving witness to the inhuman atrocious cruelty in which right in front of her eyes two of her sisters and parents were burnt alive.
Harshadbhai Panchal, a resident of Ramol, left for karseva at Ayodhya on the 22nd February, together with his wife Neetaben and three daughters, Pratiksha, Chhaya and Gayatri. His sister in law, her son, her neighbour Poojaben and her would be husband were also accompanying him.
All of them were returning to Ahmedabad along with several other karsevaks. Harshadbhai and his family, Poojaben and her husband were in one compartment. While his sister in law and her husband and their son were in another compartment. The only survivor out of these ten, Gayatri, says about this horrible event that, “On the 27th morning, at around 8 a.m. the train left Godhra Station. The karsevaks
were loudly chanting the Ram Dhoon. The train had hardly gone ½ Km., when it suddenly stopped. Somebody had perhaps pulled the chain to stop the train. Before anybody could know what had happened, we saw a huge mob approaching the train. People were carrying weapons like Gupti, Sphere, Swords and such other deadly weapons in their hands and were throwing stones at the train. We all got frightened and some how closed the windows and the doors of the compartment. People outside were shouting loudly, saying “Maro, Kato” and were attacking the train. A loudspeaker from the Masjid close by was also very loudly shouting “Maro, Kato, Laden na dushmano ne Maro.” These attackers were so fierce that they managed to break the windows and close the doors from outside before pouring petrol inside and setting the compartment on fire so that nobody could escape alive. A number of attackers entered the compartment and were beating the karsevaks and looting their belongings. The compartments were drenched in petrol all over. We were terrified and were shouting for help but who was there to help us? A few policemen were later seen approaching the compartment but they were also whisked away by the furious mob outside. There was so much of smoke in the compartment that we were unable to see each other and also getting suffocated. Going out was too difficult, however myself and Pooja some how managed to jump out through the windows. Pooja was hurt in her back and was unable to stand up. People outside were trying to hold us to take us away but we could escape and run under the burning train and succeeded in crawling towards the cabin. I have seen my parents and sisters being burnt alive right in front of my eyes.” Luckily, by the grace of God, Gayatri was not hurt too badly. “We somehow managed to go up to the station and meet our aunty (Masi). After the compartments were completely burnt the crowd started withering. We saw that even amongst them were men, women and youngsters like us both male as well as female. I returned here after evacuating the dead bodies of my family members at Godhra Station. Out of 18 of us ten had laid their lives.”
Gayatri’s father was a carpenter whereas her mother worked in the Madhyanha Bhojana Yojna (i.e. Mid-day meal scheme), her elder sister Pratiksha was serving in the Collectorate.
In spite of what had happened, Gayatri still feels that she would any time once again venture to go for karseva. She says, “I shall not allow the sacrifice of my parents to go in vein.”
Moo: yes im glad somebody
Moo:
yes im glad somebody admitted the truth. The Jews are capable of doing anything, the whole world is orchestrated by them! They started ww1, ww2, The holocaust ( 6 million of the evil Jews killed themselves just so they’d have an excuse to invade Palestine after the war, another Zionist conspiracy by Hitler the Jew) the crusades, the cold war, they blew up the twin towers , attacked Mumbai , Madrid , Bali, London and are constantly doing suicide attacks against my noble shia brethren in Iraq! They invented communism, fascism, capitalism etc etc. We cannot tolerate these Jews anymore! We need a final solution to their aggression!
Ibn sahr:
Peace be upon you my noble brother in Islam. Yes drinking camel urine for medical problems really works. I used to have aids after I has sex with a girl who I later found out was a MOSAD agent and drinking camel urine solved the problem, now I am healthy and perfectly sane.
The WHO doesn’t want people to find out that camel urine can solve the aids problem (invented by Jews) because then nobody would want to buy their weak ineffectual Jew produced drugs which do nothing but make the poor Africans live longer so the Jews can get their primitive governments to pay more blood diamond for aids drugs.
. Camel urine is the answer! It could solve all the aids problems in Africa invented by the jews. It worked for me with no side effects.1400 years later and the prophet (PBUH) still has the answer! We don’t need aids drugs if you have camel urine.
No you shouldn’t eat dates mixed with camel dung for cataracts that’s only good for syphilis, another disease invented by Jews (like all diseases are). You mahdi was a bit ill-informed perhaps he was a Jew, honestly that is only good for syphilis. for cataracts you need to put camel sperm on your eye.
yes evil American kafirs are persecuting our noble people, its because they are puppets of the jews, and the Jew goddess lilit. Islam will prevail as always. Don’t worry these kafirs will get their reward in the flames inshallah. Everybody will one bow in submission to Allah, don’t worry.
Alhamdullah!
Also my brother Ibn
Also my brother Ibn Sahr
When you go to collect the camel sperm for your eye make sure you have warm hands. Camels don’t like cold fingers wrapped around their privates whilst you try to get them to issue forth their phallic bounty. And why your are squeezing the camel members whisper the shahada in the camels ear to stop him from being scared. Then wipe his semen on your eye and leave if there for 3 days whilst you lie in the desert. It will cure your cataract problem. Thus has Spoken the Retarded Mahdi!
The Retarded Mahdi I agree
The Retarded Mahdi
I agree with you about those nasty Jooos. Did our noble Prophet (PBUH) not warn us about them 1400 years ago? Even Allah (SWT) warned us in his perfect, scientific Quran in which we daily witness new astounding miraculous facts such as the sun setting in a muddy pond and pious Muslim birds bombarding the enemies of Allah (SWT).
Who would have thought or believed that an illiterate saint, our Prophet (PBUH) from the cradle of civilization that is Arabia, would amaze and astound an ignorant world. Even today scholars from infidel lands who are thirsting for knowledge flock to our prestigious Islamic universities to learn more.
So many other miracles. When I look at the clouds I see them paying homage to Allah (SWT) by writing His glorious name in the sky. Just the other day I saw the same in an eggplant and even a tomato. I immediately fell to the ground and gave thanks for another miracle and that I was a Muslim, not a cursed infidel.
You also forgot global warming is another evil invention of these Joooos. This global warming is to oppress our Muslim brothers around the world. These Jooos know Muslim lands are very hot already so they want to make us hotter. Luckily Allah (SWT) allows us men to wear cool white robes. As for our precious women, our prophet (PBUH) saw most of them in the fires of hell because they lack religion and reason. So they must wear these black, hot and liberating burkas to get used to the fires of hell. They will thank us for this.
Then there's also swine flu. You know how these Jooos hate pork and are jealous of those who enjoy bacon, ham and pork chops. So these envious Jooos invented swine flu to give innocent pigs a bad name. See what is happening in Egypt what all those piggies being brutally slaughtered. Yes the Jooos are responsible for their pain and suffering.
The world was in darkness before enlightened Islam was revealed by our peace-loving Prophet (PBUH) to open our eyes and warn us about all these wicked infidel practices such as free-speech, democracy, women's rights, children's rights. What nonsense. Who needs all this freedom when we are enjoying being in the prison of Islam?
That is why we Muslims must wage Jihad to force these infidels to enjoy the delights of Islam. Allah (SWT) will thank us with wine and women but not song. This haraam music was also invented by those Jooos to lead us to hell, so shun it. As our prophet (PBUH) was so wise, what do we need brains for? It can only make us think thereby condemning our souls. Allahu-Akbar!
I must say thanks to #23.
I must say thanks to #23. Shafee al-Zindig and "The Retarded Mahdi" for their enlightening, entertaining satirical comments.
All the Muslims are not fools or brain dead as believed by many on this site. Fact is we have many a ex-Muslims posting on this site, Mr. Ali Sina the creator of this site FFI is an ex-Muslim himself.
Problem is , how to enlighten some " intelligent,educated people" called "Muslims by birth".?? Just calling Islam Evil won't convince any one. But presenting evils of Islam (a belief system ) in a logical convincing way may help the " By birth Muslims" to see the light.
Shafee al-Zindig: Yes the
Shafee al-Zindig:
Yes the prophet warned us about them and said that they killed the prophets and they all must die before the day of judgment will come.
Yes how could Mohammad 1400 years ago have known the amazing scientific fact that the sun sets in a muddy pond?. Scientists have only just discovered this. It truly proves the Koran is a miracle of Allah. How could an illiterate man know this?. The Koran is a science book. They just found out that sperm comes from between your ribs and backbone just like the Koran says. And that mountains prevent earthquakes. Its just such a scientific miracle!
Yes once I saw the shahada when I wiped my ass on some 2 ply toilet paper from mecca ( I don’t use that evil jew toilet paper that gives you aids) islam is everywhere.
Its such a miracle ! And once after molesting my 4 9 year old wives I saw a cum stain that spelt out Allah on my pants. I too fall down on the ground and thank Allah im not a filthy kafir dog.
Yes global warming was invented by Jews to make our lands hotter so we cant grow food. Those jews are always up to something. As the Prophet Borat said (pbuh) “ throw the Jews down the well so my country can be free, grab him by the horns and well have a big party”
Swine flue was invented by the Jews\ because they hate pork. You are right and they are jealous of those who eat it so they used it against the pork eaters. Yes all those poor pigs who died in Egypt, they were so superior to the Jews, pity they had to die.
Yes brother freedom of speech is evil, so is freedom of thought, you don’t need to think just do what Allah says or else. Democracy is evil we should live in a glorious Islamic theocracy like Iran.
Women have no right other than to be vehicles for us to take our lust and frustration on. It like when I beat my 9 year old wives until they are willing to copulate with me. they are naughty girls. They haveno rights but to be my slaves. They say it hurts and they dont like it but I thaught them. Yes Islam sure is a perfect religion.
Islam will dominate Allah Akbar!
To All Y'all There are three
To All Y'all
There are three issues in this article as I see them (feel free to correct me if you think i'm wrong).
(1) Is the killing of an enemy allowed by way of assassination or targeted killing
(2) Was Kab such an enemy
(2) Is deception an allowable tactic in war
Answer:
Again, this is another ill thought through article which is not too different from the usual articles on this site that do not miss any opportunity to try to demonise the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
With regards to the battle of Badr, ka'b ought to be as upset as any family member or friend of a person that was killed in that battle. This goes for the Muslims killed aswell and their families.
However, Ka'b was an enemy of the Muslims as he advocated the killing of the Prophet and the Muslims. He was a collaborater with the enemies of the Muslims and was calling for the killing of the Prophet (Therefore, he was advocating what he himself ended up suffering, death by targeted killing). He spoke ill of the Muslims full stop and insulted their women. He could have remained neutral between the Meccans and the Muslims but he chose to side with the Meccans.
He was not the grief stricken, bereaved, helpless, good natured man you try to make him out to be in your article (this ought to be evident by the fact that he wanted to mortgage Maslama's and his own foster brother's women and children for the food he had supplied them. Also the fact that he was sleeping with a mistress when Maslama came to see him (shows he was a womaniser). He was an enemy whose killing was an act of war and legal as it is in accordance with the rules of engagement (refer to your article where Ka'b's mistress/wife advises him not to go out late because he is a "man at war").
You see, you have a tendency to ignore all the facts and you are guilty of intellectual sins because of your prejudices and lack of objectivity when it comes to the Prophet.
Even today, targeted killings of enemies is permitted by your great enligtened western nations and not to forget Israel (airstrikes, drone attacks, carpet bombings etc etc even pre-emptive strikes are allowed nowadays (for those of you who do not know what this means it means: killing or attacking that individual or entity who you perceive to be or become a threat to you in the future). Somehow, this is worse than the killing of Kab the enemy, don't you think?
Then you say that even if Kab was a legitimate enemy and target then why wasn't he challenged to a one on one fight. By the way Muslims were not averse to one to one sword fights (please refer to Ali ibn Talib) and this would have suited them to the bone. The issue was that Kab himself was an elusive character and enjoyed making his insults and provoking the Muslims from a safe distance. If he is a legitimate target then full stop. he was fair game. there is nothing else to talk about so why do you then pull out red herrings.
Then you mention that Muhammad, as a Prophet, had a responsibility to speak to him, warn him, teach him Islam, fire a warning shot etc etc. In war, the time for words have normally been exhausted. The people knew of Muhammad's message and Kab was one who just wanted Muhammad killed. end of. The Muslims had just returned from battle and hostilities were high. Remember Saddam Hussain (talking exhausted thats why the coalition went to war, which in my opinion is highly questionable, but thats another debate altogether).
Then you say Muhammad allowed lying and trickery whereby you try to create an "Oh my God, How could a prophet do such a thing?" type of reaction. Sometimes, I think you people are jokin around with the world. Well, to answer the question: Deception is an age old tactic of war. I mean everything from spying and intelligence gathering to agents and battle plans are war tactics.
Now bring to me any General, I say any general at all who says that no deception should or ever be used in war by good moralled people and I will say that Muhammad is a fraud and a liar and I will give up my Islam. You see, war itself is deception. The very combat uniforms that soldiers wear is trickery (they try to camouflage themselves so the enemy cannot see them). No body has answered my question yet, Why do you have seriously prejudicial double standards when it comes to Muhammad.
Allah (SWT) will be glorified and worshipped and the Prophet (SAW) will be loved no matter how much you people detest it.
"Those who are kind and
"Those who are kind and considerate to Allah's creatures, Allah bestows His kindness and affection on them. Show kindness to the creatures on the earth so that Allah may be kind to you."
(The Prophet Muhammad - Hadith - Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi)
Narrated Jarir bin ‘Abdullah:
Narrated Jarir bin ‘Abdullah: Allah’s Messenger said, “Allah will not show mercy to him who does not show mercy to others.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
He who is deprived of kindness and gentleness is, in fact, deprived of all good.
(Prophet Muhammad - Muslim, 2592)
The messenger of God said to me (Anas), 'Son, if you are able, keep your heart from morning till night and from night till morning free from malice towards anyone.'
"The best of God's servants are those who, when seen, remind one of God; and the worst of God's servants are those who carry tales about to do mischief and separate friends, and seek for the defects of the good."
"It is unworthy of a believer to injure people's reputations; and it is unworthy to curse any one; and it is unworthy to abuse any one; and it is unworthy of a believer to talk arrogantly."
"Assist your brother Muslim, whether he be an oppressor or an oppressed." 'But how shall we do it when he is an oppressor?' Muhammad said, 'Assisting an oppressor is by forbidding and withholding him from oppression.
"God is gentle and loves gentleness."
Faith is a restraint against all violence, let no believer commit violence
What actions are most excellent? "To gladden the heart of a human being, to feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the wrongs of the injured."
"The best of people is one from whom good accrues to humanity."
Someone said to the Prophet, 'Pray to God against the idolators and curse them.' The Prophet replied, 'I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse.
"Deal gently with the people, and be not harsh; cheer them and condemn them not."
"The warrior is one who battles with his own ego (nafs) on the path of God."
After a major battle, defending the small community of Islam against powerful enemies who sought to destroy it, the Prophet said: "We have returned from the lesser holy war (jihad) to the greater holy war." When asked what he meant by the greater war, the Prophet replied, "Struggle against the ego (nafs)."
"God has mercy upon those who are merciful to others."
"Would you have me tell you about actions that are better than fasting, prayer, and charity? Bring goodness and high principles between people."
"The strongest among you is the one who controls his or her anger."
"Oh God, bring peacefulness among us, bring unity into our hearts; guide us to equilibrium, take us from darkness to light."
"Among the servants of Allah, those who are more useful to the people are also those more loved by the Divine."
"Being an honorable Muslim means that people are safe from your actions and words."
"Read the Koran if it keeps you from doing ill, and if you recite the Koran and are not prevented from wrongdoing, then you are not truthful in reading the Koran."
"Be kind to people whether they deserve your kindness or not. If your kindness reaches the deserving, good for you; if your kindness reaches the undeserving, take joy in your compassion."
I think you are wasting your
I think you are wasting your efforts and our time postng good! about the evilest person ever to have lived on earth the pedophil rapist mohammad
Dear Kabirlaw, We have an
Dear Kabirlaw,
We have an Egyptian saying "I hear your words, I believe you. Then, I see your doings, and I wonder.."
Moral of the story, even the worst criminals can give the best advice. Sure, Muhammad said nice things, so did Hitler, ..etc. Some of the worst people in the world said such nice things, its unbelievable. But what you want to do is judge people according to their doings, and how they lived their lives, not just what they say. Talk is cheap brother. Judge a person by his/her doings. Accordingly, Muhammad fails miserabley. He attacked people, raped, pillaged,Massacred Bani Qurayza in one day. The bastard was a little piece of trash. In fact, I am insulting trash when I give that attribute to Muhammad.
You keep following that thug, you'll waste your life away. And you can take what I am telling you here to the bank.
Peace
Great Satire ! Bang-up job
Great Satire ! Bang-up job posters.:-)
I think both the article and
I think both the article and Kabirlaws reaction to it were very interesting and good. The 2nd part of his reaction with all these good verses about Mohammed we have to remember, as in debate we are required to have a balanced well informed view about Islam, I feel. But many of us read many wise and moving sayings like it and we fail to see why Muhammad would be superior to say Plato, Aristoteles, Baruch Spinoza etc.
The first part of his reaction at first confounded me as I always try to be objective. But his defence of Muhammad here seems to rest on the assumption that Kab had proven or very probable murderous intentions, hence was a big threat. Because if he was no more than an embittered critic, then we know that no Israeli or American leader publicly wants such people killed. But in the Hadith Muhammad wants to have this man killed. For what is the question.
I feel that FFI came about in reaction to a lot of arrogance and intransigence of many Muslims. When in power Muslims oppress followers of other faiths. Many of them see Islam as superior and deserving of supremacy, in Islamic countries and even the world. Very arrogant they believe that their religion is the only true one, not just the best, as would be perfectly understandable. It is to us very arrogant and unbelievable when they claim the Quran to be the word of God, perfect from cover to cover, unchangeable, valid for all time, as would any such claim be to us. And when in power muslims deny free speech, opposition to Islam and the prophet on pain of death or severe penalties, again very arrogant.
To this FFI and other Islam-critics reacted and only now fine answers, real attempts to debate Islam come, from people like LondonSpirit and Kabirlaw. They often have very good comparisons between the behavior of Prophet, Muslims and other people. In the world at large many Westerners also engage in this Culture-relativism. And it is hard to counter if one wants to stay objective.
But we can compare back. We can defend Ali Sina, Israeli's, Americans + their character, policy and actions, by comparing these with the teachings and behavior of Mohammed and Muslims. Here too we can force a draw, just as they can sometimes force a draw on us. So when war is deception and with this argument Mohammed and Muslims are exonerated, then by the same token Muslims should exonerate Ali Sina, Israel and America. Or else carefully explain what is the difference. Just as they we can respond to their criticisms, condemnations, supremacy-claims with this culture-relativism. It would be a good start for eventually coexist peacefully in many places.
Shafee: The world was in
Shafee:
The world was in darkness before enlightened Islam was revealed by our peace-loving Prophet (PBUH) to open our eyes and warn us about all these wicked infidel practices such as free-speech, democracy, women’s rights, children’s rights. What nonsense. Who needs all this freedom when we are enjoying being in the prison of Islam?
I say: Yes these rights are a curse from the Jews. The so-called women's rights are a curse from the Jews. The burka is a very liberating garment that is chaste, gives dignity, and respect to women. It keeps it keeps other men from desiring and lusting after me except my father-in-law who has developed a habit of lifting up my skirt but that is ok since the Quran states it is lawful for father in-law to have sexual relations with their daughter in-law.
In regards to women going to getting an education and working outside the home, I did do this when I was a filthy kafir. But now since I became a Muslimah ( but I am still filthy as the Quran states all women are dirty ), I see the light now and as a daughter of Allah it is my right to stay home all day and only go out with my husband.
As for domestic violence, it is my husbands right to beat me.
TRM: Women have no right
TRM:
Women have no right other than to be vehicles for us to take our lust and frustration on. It like when I beat my 9 year old wives until they are willing to copulate with me. they are naughty girls. They haveno rights but to be my slaves. They say it hurts and they dont like it but I thaught them. Yes Islam sure is a perfect religion.
I say:
That is absolutely right. Women have no other rights then to submit to their husbands and fulfill their desires. I have no problems fulfilling my husband's desires even when I am not in the mood and I have no problems with my husband beating me although my hands hurt every time a type on the keyboard.
Hi Demsci Thanks for taking
Hi Demsci
Thanks for taking the time to read my response.
You said:
But many of us read many wise and moving sayings like it and we fail to see why Muhammad would be superior to say Plato, Aristoteles, Baruch Spinoza etc.
I say:
Muhammad is superior to these other Philosphers because of his legacy to the world, the sheer number of people who try to follow and emulate him. He has left a religion holding sway over the lives of 1.5 billion people (that's just todays figures). Michael H Hart (Historian) published a book whereby he listed the most influential people in human history (Ali Sina knows about this). Muhammad was no. 1. Isaac Newton was second and Jesus was third. His reasons (in short) for placing Muhammad first was:
"The central human figure of Islam, regarded by Muslims as the messenger and last prophet of God. Also active as a diplomat, merchant, philosopher, orator, legislator, reformer, and military leader."
You see there is no other human being in human history who combined all of these qualities so successfully and left a timeless legacy to the world. The likes of the Philosphers you compared Muhammad to were only that "Philosophers" (No disrespect to these figures intended at all). The interesting part is why would the "Son of God" be placed third below Isaac Newton! Michael H Hart was going by the facts you see, the facts of each individual.
You said:
So when war is deception and with this argument Mohammed and Muslims are exonerated, then by the same token Muslims should exonerate Ali Sina, Israel and America. Or else carefully explain what is the difference. Just as they we can respond to their criticisms, condemnations, supremacy-claims with this culture-relativism. It would be a good start for eventually coexist peacefully in many places.
I say:
The difference is this. It is the intention behind the war or the act of aggression you must assess whether the same qualifying principles have been applied to all conflicts these nations engage in or are the US, Israel etc more trigger happy to go for, say Iran, Iraq, Palestine than other flouters of International Law.
You see, in self defence and in war the aim is to marginalise or terminate the opponent otherwise there would be no war. That is fair dos but then you have to look at the "Reasons" for the agression or the "Reason" for the receiving parties resistance. The reason the US went to war in Iraq was to eliminate "WMD's". None at all were found so Saddam Hussain was not a threat to the world as he was telling the truth that he did not possess weapons of mass destruction. Now by the guiding principles on the use of force, was this war legal or illegal? Were those killed fair game or victims of war crimiinals? I'll let you answer that.
The same can be applied to Palestine, where a soveriegn nation occupied by a sovereign and palestinian indigenous people was taken away from them and told that it belonged to foreigners just because "God" told them it did! Imagine Demsci, a party of weapon wielding people forcibly invading your family home, rightfully belonging to you and telling you that you and your family do not belong there becasue the house is theirs! Then forcing some members of your family to flee and become refugees in neighboring houses and the ones that remain were subjected to humiliation, killing, second class citizen status and were given a room in the house to stay which allowed you no privacy or basic rights. What would you do? Would it be right for you to defend your family? is this a justified reason or not? You answer.
I hope and pray Demsci that we can all peacefully coexist with each other but going about swearing, maligning and unjustly demonising a man so beloved to a large part of the human family is no way to start a peaceful partnership, and especially where this site feels that Muhammad's wars are acts of outright aggression and bloodlust and the wars of others are for reasons of unquestionable self defence.
Peaceful co-existence has to be built on equity.
To Ibn Kammuna I note how
To Ibn Kammuna
I note how you have failed to respond to the juicy bits in my response.
You said:
You keep following that thug, you’ll waste your life away. And you can take what I am telling you here to the bank.
I say:
I am indeed following that "Thug" and I can assure you that my life is not being wasted.
You see Kammuna, life is about living, not winning arguments or maligning other people. Life is about sitting out on the porch and counting stars with your 4 year old daughter on a night, life is about making your mother smile and laugh when she's upset, it's about helping the elderly man cross the road because he can't walk properly or see properly, life's about feeding the orphaned child who hasnt been fed properly since his birth, life's about watchin the innocence and beauty of your child whilst she is asleep, it's about holding her tight and thanking Allah for giving her to you.
If Allah is a myth what have I lost?
If Allah is not a myth, what might you lose?
Repel (Evil) with what is
Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and you was hatred, become as it were your most intimate friend.
The Holy Quran - Chapter 49, Verse 13
(or as you people would put it "The Book of hate")
Kabirlaw: I say: Muhammad
Kabirlaw:
I say:
Muhammad is superior to these other Philosphers because of his legacy to the world, the sheer number of people who try to follow and emulate him. He has left a religion holding sway over the lives of 1.5 billion people (that’s just todays figures). Michael H Hart (Historian) published a book whereby he listed the most influential people in human history (Ali Sina knows about this). Muhammad was no. 1. Isaac Newton was second and Jesus was third. His reasons (in short) for placing Muhammad first was:
I say:
Quantity means nothing ( the amount of people who follow Muhammed ) and quality means everything ( the quality of the message and what it has lead it's followers to do )
Kabirlaw:
The same can be applied to Palestine, where a soveriegn nation occupied by a sovereign and palestinian indigenous people was taken away from them and told that it belonged to foreigners just because “God” told them it did!
I say:
They are not Palestinians nor are they indigenous. Most of those people who occupy that land were brought there through the British and the Palestinians were not Arabs. The word Palestine comes from the word Philistine. The Philistines were the real Palestinians who existed thousands of years ago.
Kabirlaw:
If Allah is a myth what have I lost?
If Allah is not a myth, what might you lose?
I say:
Sounds like Pascal's wager, another logical fallacy.
Marie you said: They are not
Marie you said:
They are not Palestinians nor are they indigenous. Most of those people who occupy that land were brought there through the British and the Palestinians were not Arabs. The word Palestine comes from the word Philistine. The Philistines were the real Palestinians who existed thousands of years ago.
Palestinians are Arabs, Arabs existed in biblical times you know. They descend from Abraham through his son Ishmael and the Jews descend from Abraham through his son Isaac.
Brought from where? Mars? You never nack up your statements and only believe waht you want to believe.
By the way, Michael H Hart's
By the way, Michael H Hart's putting Muhammad as No: 1 was not due to the number of his followers but the unparalleled success of his prophethood and unrivalled character in human history.
Kabirlaw: Palestinians are
Kabirlaw:
Palestinians are Arabs, Arabs existed in biblical times you know. They descend from Abraham through his son Ishmael and the Jews descend from Abraham through his son Isaac.
I say:
The Palestinians were the Philistines and the Philistines are not descendents of Abraham. The Philistines were Seafaring Aegean people who settled in the Middle East. The word Palestine comes from Philistia which was the area where the Philistines had settled. They are mentioned in Genesis 21:24 where Abraham lived as a foreigner in the land of the Philistines.
As for your other question, look up British Mandate of Palestine.
Kabirlaw said: “The central
Kabirlaw said:
“The central human figure of Islam, regarded by Muslims as the messenger and last prophet of God. Also active as a diplomat, merchant, philosopher, orator, legislator, reformer, and military leader”
Kabirlaw don’t forget there is no other human being in human history who combined all of these qualities as you mentioned above and maybe some you forgot below that filled islam history regarding this man:
(a)
liar, deceiver, pervert, child molester, robber, coward, attention deficit disorder, bullied and last but not least mentally disturbing person.
to Mr Kabirlaw #36 You said:
to Mr Kabirlaw #36
You said: You see Kammuna, life is about living, not winning arguments or maligning other people. Life is about sitting out on the porch and counting stars with your 4 year old daughter on a night, life is about making your mother smile and laugh when she’s upset, it’s about helping the elderly man cross the road because he can’t walk properly or see properly, life’s about feeding the orphaned child who hasnt been fed properly since his birth, life’s about watchin the innocence and beauty of your child whilst she is asleep, it’s about holding her tight and thanking Allah for giving her to you.
Man, I am deeply touched and moved when reading this confession of yours. If all human can think and act this way, the world will be at peace and prosperity. Unfortunately, Prophet Muhammad didnt apply this superior teaching in his life. On the contrary, he sent threatening letter to all the surrounding sovereigns and when they rejected his offer of submission, he sent troops to eliminate the entire empire. Take for example the Persian Empire, those Persian wanted to love peacefully as you suggested: "Life is about sitting out on the porch and counting stars with your 4 year old daughter on a night," the Muslim invaders entered their territory and destroyed them. They obtained much booty from that aggression. Same goes with North Africa and Spain.
I wish Mr Kabirlaw is sincere in your thought and feel emphaty for all humanity. We all want to have such peace.
Humanity is but one family. :)
kabirlaw.... no matter how
kabirlaw....
no matter how much i hate muslims and islam, i say u win this argument with these ppl....you appear a nice and soft person and apparently you wouldnt do any harm to ppl around you, leave aside they are muslim or not....
you are good person, only bcos of your good family back ground and good ppl around you....
but how many ppl who practise islam turn out like you????
@ Article A simple question
@ Article
A simple question for all those who called The Holy Prophet assassin. Didn't the US used the simple logic that is described here, disinformation. If the non-Muslims kill even thousands of Muslims they are innocent. You all disgust me the most outspoken proponent of human rights, violates them. Just this isn't this biasness? Only one thing was any one of the Muslim killed in Iraq or Afghanistan a militant. US killed those whom it has come to save.
Hi Kabirlaw, Yes peaceful
Hi Kabirlaw,
Yes peaceful coexistence in the 21st century is our dearest common goal. That book f Michael Hart I possess and you were right; Muhammad is nr 1 in influence. By the way 4, 5, 6 are: Buddha, Confucius, St. Paul. Yes, M was very influential, and likely to become even more so in the 21st century. But at what cost?
Yes, your verses showed some good in his influence. But I meant that other wise and loving people also contributed with mighty good ideas to mankind. And by saying Muhammed supersedes all these others, for all time no less, Muslims give Islamic teaching an unfair advantage. Instead I feel we all should judge all wisdom-teaching, guidance, good ideas on merit alone. I feel Muslims limit and blockade better ideas, which due to evolution evolve, which seem in contradiction with established belief. They ignore or exclude these. With violent oppression too.
To coexist peacefully Islam and Muslims should be content with "live and let live" but from the start a part of them behaved arrogant and agressive or oppressive, until this day in Islamic countries. Part of them have this superiority-claim, this supremacy-desire. THAT is no good way to start coexisting peacefully. Muslims should be urged to rely only on peaceful attraction, democratic elections, under equal chances, opportunities for all.
Islam-critics, like FFI, react because of this arrogance, agressiveness, oppressing behavior of some Muslims, beginning with Muhammad himself. Him claiming to be a messenger from God, that his religion was entitled to eventually rule the world. And they react to current behavior of a part of the Muslims, who still oppress, or strive for more power, other than through attraction, equal chances, fair elections.
So FFI in my opinion rightfully examines these "agressors", Muhammad and his followers, and their teaching, intentions, behavior. Not mincing words, as Muslims don't either, in respect to Israeli's, Americans or Islam-critics.
When after thoroughly investigating them FFI finds many faults or shortcomings in Islamic teaching and behavior, then Muslims and third parties who want to be impartial, use much culture-relativism, tu quoque, to relativate, exonerate them. But this gives others the opportunity to do the same with: I. All supremacy claims of Muhammad and his teachings and followers. Especially divine, moral and historical claims. II. All THEIR criticizing, condemning the faults or shortcomings of their opponents, like Israel, America or Islam-critics.
And THAT is a good start for a coexisting peacefully, because that would make all others truly equal, in all important respects, with the Muslims.
# 36. kabirlaw Nice things
# 36. kabirlaw Nice things you have said -- Just read the Edited Islamic version---
You see Kammuna, life is about living, not winning arguments or maligning other people. Life is about sitting out on the porch and counting stars with your 4 year old FOUR WIVES on a night, life is about making your mother smile and laugh when she’s upset OVER YOUR SUICIDE BOMBING, it’s about helping the elderly man cross the road because he can’t walk properly or see properly ONLY IF THAT MAN IS A MUSLIM, life’s about feeding the orphaned child who hasnt been fed properly since his birth BEFORE GETTING BRAINWASHED IN A TERRORIST PRODUCING MADRASA, life’s about watchin the innocence and beauty of your child whilst she is asleep AND WONDERING WHEN WILL SHE REACH THE RIPE AGE OF 6 FOR HER TO GET MARRIED TO AN OLD PEDOPHILE LIKE MOHAMMAD., it’s about holding her tight and thanking Allah for giving her to you.( THANK GOD FOR NOT THIGHING HER AS PRESCRIBED BY HOLLY SUNNAH)
If Allah is a myth what have I lost? ( Just 72 virgins in the Islamic whore house heaven)
If Allah is not a myth, what might you lose? ( Just your Infidel head)
Have a nice Friday prayer.
Hello Big mouth
Hello Big mouth kebirilewd.
If Allah is a myth what have I lost? - not only losing 72 whores, you maybe will get punished from a real god because you're following a demon god.
If Allah is not a myth, what might you lose? - burn in hell forever just because this pathetic god can't even prove himself exist. what a merciful god indeed.
Muzishah complained:
"A simple question for all those who called The Holy Prophet assassin. Didn’t the US used the simple logic that is described here, disinformation. If the non-Muslims kill even thousands of Muslims they are innocent. You all disgust me the most outspoken proponent of human rights, violates them. Just this isn’t this biasness? Only one thing was any one of the Muslim killed in Iraq or Afghanistan a militant. US killed those whom it has come to save."
It is you who are disgust me. Your filthy prophet is truly an assassin xxxx and his teachings (assasination of critics) are applied to this day. You compared US (country) againts islam (religion) hhmmm, more fools here keep coming and coming. Did you forget all islamic expansion, killing all other faiths especially non-people of the book. Until today this islamic xxxxxxx still persecute other faiths and killing them.
to Mr Muzishah #45 Did
to Mr Muzishah #45
Did anyone here condone the murder of any innocent human being anywhere on the globe, Mr Muzishah? Perhaps, you have to judge sanely each and every issues. The criticism of Islam here is based on the fact that Muslims will turn violent by emulating the injunctions of Muhammad. Muhammad was the model and icon of billion of Muslims. We want to disprove the depiction of him as holy and saintly by Muslim scholars for thousands years. By digging this concealed facts, we hope that the Muslims will be informed of this and wake up from their slumber of unawareness.
With regards to the American bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq, it's entirely a different issue. This must be addressed separately. If there is any innocent Muslim died as a result, we condemn such act. America did topple the regime of Noriega in Panama. When a Christian killed a Hindu, it does not make Hinduism to be a right religion, vice versa. Religion is religion, foreign policy out of political expediency cannot be lumped up together into one big basket and then try to gain sympathy.
Humanity is but one family. :)
Why should i gain sympathy
Why should i gain sympathy from you when you are not gaining any sympathy from us. you people all try to equate one incident as being applied to a whole. Wasn't it true when you say that muslims are getting annoyed at the teachings of Islam you say muslims are leaving islam. its you people who are trying to get sympathy or either you would have come up with a better platform worked for the betterment of humanity. the largest platform to actively participate and really do something for humanity has been formed by the followers of Holy Prophet. and why the hell am i debating with the walls. there is a saying in my language that talkig to people like you is like hitting my head with a wall, the damage will be to my head not to the wall. and yes humanity is one family because we are all sons and daughters of Prophet Adam. and you should not try to twist the meaning and facts of history because a western philosopher once said;
"Dont try to twist or meddle with history or it will do the same with you and you wont even be history".
Humanity is tolerating each other no matter the difference.