Liberal Peaceful Islam - I
Submitted by Administrator on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 04:11
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PDF versionFFI received the following email from Mr. Hussain. He claims he is a liberal and peaceful Muslim. Below is his email to us (in black) along with our editor's response to him (in blue).
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Dear FFI Editors,
I am a liberal and peaceful Muslim and despite your prejudiced behaviour towards Islam, I hope that you would accept my request to publish the following article at your website.
I am glad you are liberal and peaceful. Can you please clarify to me what you mean by “liberal” and “peaceful”. For example, as a liberal Muslim, are you ready to renounce and denounce Sharia laws as barbaric. Beheading is barbaric. Beating women is barbaric. Executing gays, lesbians and prostitutes, is barbaric. Are you ready to renounce all of that. Being a “liberal” Muslim sounds good, but what does it mean? Are you willing to admit that the Koran has many evil teachings in it (i.e. Koran 4:34 sanctions, by divine interference, beating women). Are you willing to reject such verses? Look at the following “dripping with evil” verse from the Koran:
009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
The above verse abrogated all Islamic peace you are talking about and put all non-Muslims under the threat of swords and submission. I honestly do not understand you when you say you are a peaceful Muslim. If you are a Muslim, you are peaceful despite of Islam, not because of it. In the Jalalyn Tafsir, and commenting on verse 4:90 (which has a little bit nicer tone than verse 9:5 above) we read the following:
Except those who attach themselves to, [who] seek refuge with, a people between whom and you there is a covenant, a pledge of security for them and for whoever attaches himself to them, in the manner of the Prophet’s (s) covenant with Hilāl b. ‘Uwaymir al-Aslamī; or, those who, come to you with their breasts constricted, dejected, about the prospect of fighting you, [being] on the side of their people, or fighting their people, siding with you, in other words, [those who come to you] refraining from fighting either you or them, then do not interfere with them, neither taking them as captives nor slaying them: this statement and what follows was abrogated by the ‘sword’ verse. Had God willed, to give them sway over you, He would have given them sway over you, by strengthening their hearts, so that assuredly they would have fought you: but God did not will it and so He cast terror into their hearts. And so if they stay away from you and do not fight you, and offer you peace, reconciliation, that is, [if] they submit, then God does not allow you any way against them, [He does not allow you] a means to take them captive or to slay them.
In effect, it seems a peaceful Islam is only a mirage. It is good that you are dreaming about a peaceful Islam. But facts tell a contrary story. All “peaceful” verses of the Koran were abrogated by the verse of the sword. The last and latest teachings of the Koran are found in Sura 9 (Al-Tawbah). Muhammad “revealed” it before he died and went to hell which he thoroughly deserved.
Sir, you also accused FFI of “prejudiced behaviour” against Islam. To be honest with you, I and all other editors, try to look for the truth when we do research on Islam. When we review submitted papers, our main concern is to have truthful research presented to readers. We do not sugar-coat Islamic truths. I find it a sad fact that you call our honesty and hard work of research “prejudiced behavior”. Can you please point out to us where we wrote research that is “prejudiced behaviour”?
MODERNIZATION OF ISLAMIC ARGUMENTS I have recently read the following statement on a website which tries to harmonize science and religion. "Don't be discouraged! There is hope. The Bible's message is trustworthy. God is still God, and Jesus is still the Savior who rose again. The Bible isn't a science book, and Genesis wasn't written for 21st century intellectuals. God may have allowed a figurative story of His Creation to be recorded, since a scientific explanation wouldn't have made sense to readers of that time anyway. So continue to trust Him, despite the apparent difficulties in reconciling science with His Word."
I feel that, we Muslims, have to adopt the same argument to defend Islam during this modern time. I would like to say to my brave Muslims brothers and cute sisters:
"Don't be discouraged. There is hope. The Quranic message is trustworthy. Allah is still Allah and Prophet is still profit and was mercy for mankind and will intercede for us on the Day of Judgement. The Quran is for all times that have gone and those that are still to come. Quran is not a science book and it was not written for present modern day. Allah may have allowed some soldiers of Iblis to write fake Ahadith and fake verses to be recorded just to give the Iblis full opportunity to complete his wrong doings before the Allah comes into action and sends Messiahs (Jesus and Mahdi). So continue to trust Allah, despite the apparent difficulties in reconciling teachings of Islam with science and modern human rights concepts. ISLAM ULLAH
Dear brother
you make some grand claims here. I have some questions for you:
1. You say that the Quranic message is trustworthy. How do you know that? Is there is “trustworthiness” scale that you put the Quran on and it scored perfectly? Was Muhammad even an honest man to trust what he says. He broke many treaties. He attacked people unprovked. He pillaged. He raped. He looted. He was a lowly thug. You you say that what he said in the Quran is trustworthy. You have big task to rpove here. All facts point to the contrary. Nothing in the Quran is trustworthy. The man who came with it was a deceiver and a liar. Can you please clarify to me why you say that the Quran is trustworthy?
2. You also claim that Muhammad was a mercy to mankind. You have a funny logic. Can you please tell me what kind of “mercy to mankind” was Muhammad when he beheaded all adult males of bani Qurayza, enslaved the women and children, and raped the women who he had just killed. He raped Rayhana on the day he beheaded her husband and all male relatives. Now, for any decent human being, Muhammad is not even worthy of any respect because of the evil he did to bani Qurayza, but to you, my good Muslim friend, Muhammad is a “mercy to mankind”. This is a sad joke indeed.
3. You also admit that there fake hadiths and fake Quranic verse. Well, how can we choose which verse of the Quran are from Allah, and which are from Iblis (the devil)? The same question applies to Hadiths.
4. You admit the difficulties involved in “ reconciling teachings of Islam with science and modern human rights concepts.” I applaud your admittance. Many Muslims try to do acrobatics to make Islam fit science and human rights. The fact of the matter is that you cannot, with good heart, consolodate Islam and the Quran with modern scientific facts or with human rights concepts. This is a complicated subjects. Many articles are published on our FFI site on the subjects of science and human rights. I encourage our readers to investigate such articles. I just want to mention to you one point regarding human rights. The Jizya tax, which is a tax levied against non-Muslims in a Muslim state, is mandated by the Quran. If you are as honest as I think you are, you will have to reject many verses in the Quran because of one reason or another.
As a final note to you: Would you not do better by rejecting Islam and seeing all of humanity as one big family? Think about it.
I wish you the best in your endeavor to find the truth
(1 vote)
The Koran is an evil book no
The Koran is an evil book no child should be allowed to read. Imagine teaching kids about beating women and pedophilia.
I noted a tone of desperation in Mr. Hussain's letter. This tells me the infidels are doing their job.
Wow, Muslims have searched
Wow, Muslims have searched out the real problem and its solution. Now they are trying to stick with "you too" argument.
He wrote:
"So continue to trust Allah, despite the apparent difficulties in reconciling teachings of Islam with science and modern human rights concepts."
Very strong argument boy, u are surely going to seve Islam.
A liberal and a peaceful
A liberal and a peaceful moslem!
Good qualifications that speak volumes .If you say you are a moslem, whats conveyed to us the ordinary mortals is that you are a violent, cruel, bigoted, uncouth , sword weilding maniac who is shouting allahu akbar and killin at the drop of the skull cap.So it's very necessary to add that preamble, that you are a liberal and peaceful moslem.
Can you please define these terms that are an antetheses to islam.Islam means kill, violent, illiberal, bigoted,subhuman creatures, etc
Mr. Hussain wrote:- The
Mr. Hussain wrote:-
The Quran is for all times that have gone and those that are still to come. Quran is not a science book and it was not written for present modern day.
If Quran is for all times, then why it was not written for present modern day? Mr. Hussain is contradicting himself. I hope Mr. Hussain see the truth.
Do you seriously believe that
Do you seriously believe that a moslem is capable of seeing and perceiving contradiction? Nahh.
For any one to recognise the contradiction in words, one has to have a little bit of thinking powers.That alas has been taken away by allah.Moslems can not think.period. ( So do some of the christian nut cases)
Otherwise a moslem would have asked simple questions.
Why did prophet get married to his own daughter in law? Call your self a prophet and keep oggling at your own daughter in law and finally make a grand entrance in to her? Would I call this a prophetic behaviour? Pathetic I would say.
Why did prophet marry a child? Cultural perhaps? Prophetic? never.
Why did rasool kill people? That too unarmed and a woman breast feeding a child?
Even if he eliminated the hapless woman, why would the prophet gloat over such atrocious acts? Pathetic, cruel, madness yes.Prophetic Never.islamic yes.
Why did rasool hate jews, christians, pagans? Is hatred a prophetic trait? It seems so in islam.
Why did prophet have sex with all the salves, vanquished enemies widows? That too on the night of the battle? prophetic trait? Sadly yes only in islam. If this is the prophet the moslems want to emulate and respect, I have no respect for moslems.
To Ali Sina and his
To Ali Sina and his supporters;
Four statements can be made about Islam:
1. Islam is a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion.
2. Islam is not a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion.
3. Islam is a true religion, but some people found it to be a true religion.
4. Islam is not a true religion, but some people found it to be a true religion.
According to logic the following is always true:
Category 1: if T==>F, False argument
Category 2: if F==>F, Correct argument
Category 3: if T==>T, Correct argument
Category 4: if F==>T, Correct argument
The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category. Solid evidence must be presented to prove Islam is wrong. To the contrary, no evidence was presented to prove that Islam is wrong. Hence, one must conclude that the arguments given against Islam were wrong and misleading.
The 5th statement about islam
The 5th statement about islam is it's sh1tand that is the truth.
Because islam stinks from miles.Because followers of islam also stink.Because islam just like sh1t is revolting and repulsive.Truth.Because the true followers of islam also are equally repulsive and revolting.
Because the true islam like crap is useless and needs to be flushed down and not to be seen or inspected.Islam all these qualities of sh1t and so islam is sh1t.QED! There you are happy?
>>The arguments presented by
>>The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category.
How can you say that. I will say it belongs to category 2.
I would like you to expand why ??
This is some Zakir Naik kind of stuff. If you cant convince , confuse !!
Talking about zakir naik
Talking about zakir naik alwalys make me wonder 'why he still hasn't debate with ali sina?
The answer could be;
A.He is still hiding inside his wife's skirt.
B.He urinate each time someone talks about ali sina.
C.He is busy writing a book call 'guide to muslim's paradise for dummies.Do's and Don'ts with virgins.
D.He prefers virgins as a winning prize rather than USD50000.
E.He is a fxxxking chicken and a complete axxhole.
F.All of the above
Please choose your answer.
My answer will be E.We should change the prize to 72 virgins and i bet thousands of muslims will debate with ali sina.And of course zakir naik will be first in line.We should ask zakir what he wants as winning prize!may be he wants 6 year old,or boy,gay,goat,cockroach or may be babies.Its time to change the rules of the game.what you think guys?
To proudkafir; This is in
To proudkafir;
This is in reply to Comment ID #25803
October 7, 2009 • 10:15 am
You staed ["The 5th statement about islam is it’s sh1tand that is the truth.
Because islam stinks from miles.Because followers of islam also stink.Because islam just like sh1t is revolting and repulsive.Truth.Because the true followers of islam also are equally repulsive and revolting.
Because the true islam like crap is useless and needs to be flushed down and not to be seen or inspected.Islam all these qualities of sh1t and so islam is sh1t.QED! There you are happy?"]
++I can see a lot of anger in you. Would you be kind and explain to me why are you so mad at Muslims? Would you also present me with some valid evidence -other than some isolated incidents- that “followers of Islam Stink?”
++To the contrary, I have found Islam to be very rewarding and also to be the most beautiful religion in the world. The teachings of Islam have done me a lot of good and have greatly contributed to my successes.
++You also stated that "followers of islam also are equally repulsive and revolting”. Did you converse with every Muslim on this planet and you find out that “followers of islam also are equally repulsive and revolting”.
++A fool my friend is any person who makes or says any statement without any type of support or evidence. And that is just what you have done!
To Kartik; This in reply to
To Kartik;
This in reply to Comment ID #25823
October 7, 2009 • 10:56 am .
----You stated [The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category.
How can you say that. I will say it belongs to category 2.
I would like you to expand why ??
This is some Zakir Naik kind of stuff. If you cant convince , confuse !!"]
++Did you ever take a class in logic? If you did not, then you need to take a class in logic first. Only, then you will be able to understand this logical argument.
To myLORD; This in reply to
To myLORD;
This in reply to Comment ID #25839
October 7, 2009 • 12:25 pm .
----You stated [\Talking about zakir naik alwalys make me wonder ‘why he still hasn’t debate with ali sina?
The answer could be;
A.He is still hiding inside his wife’s skirt.
B.He urinate each time someone talks about ali sina.
C.He is busy writing a book call ‘guide to muslim’s paradise for dummies.Do’s and Don’ts with virgins.
D.He prefers virgins as a winning prize rather than USD50000.
E.He is a fxxxking chicken and a complete axxhole.
F.All of the above
Please choose your answer.
My answer will be E.We should change the prize to 72 virgins and i bet thousands of muslims will debate with ali sina.And of course zakir naik will be first in line.We should ask zakir what he wants as winning prize!may be he wants 6 year old,or boy,gay,goat,cockroach or may be babies.Its time to change the rules of the game.what you think guys?\]
++Wow, I am really impressed! What a great education you have. Let me guess, Ali Sinner was your teacher. That should not be surprise. An elementary student can logically think, write and politely expresses his/views better than you. Your statements are empty and have no substance. Instead of attacking Zakir Naik for his excellent point of views and his correct logical thinking, see if you can step up to the ladder and provide some counter logical argument to his point of views. I doubt if you ever can. The lack of reason and logic within you must be the contributing factor for the filthy language that is coming out of your mouth.
The Truth is not islam. That
The Truth is not islam. That is the truth.
Iam not angry at people who are born in to moslem families for no fault of theirs!
I am not angry or upset at people who are sensible and sane.
I am against the philosophy that teaches one the following aspects.I am disgusted with people who want to follow such a pathological satanic teachings.Now let me see if you can convince me that these are perfectly sane and sensible thing to do in any civilised society.
Islam teaches that the kafirs are to be killed where ever you find them.Islam also teaches that kafir women are game for sex any time any where.Right hand possessions.This I find despicable. Give up this aspect of qran and I may consider the islam as ok!
Islam also teaches you that your daughter in law is fine for you to go in to ! Allah himself says it should be ok to screw a daughter in law.This I find obnoxious.Get rid of this from qran and I am willing to follow qran!
Islam teaches you disrespect the kafiroons andthis i find quite abhoring.
Islam also teaches that women are inferior to man and are deficient in intelligence.Wipe this rubbish out of qran and I am willing to follow islam.
Islam preaches you to lie and I find this strange that god should tell you to do so! get this away and I am willing to follow islam.
Islam preaches you that all the idols should be destroyed and al the polytheists are fuel for hell fire.I am disgusted with such thought processes. Get this out of qran and I am willing to be a calm listener.
Islam teaches you all to marry children as young as 5 years old and this I find detestable. Kinldy eliminate this concept from qran and am willing to listen to you.
Islam teaches you kill kafirs and get 72 virgins and 28 boys in jannat. thsi I find cruel and criminal. Abolish this from qran and am your best buddy.
I would be very happy to say any person who does not ascribe to any of the above and all of the above pillars of islamic teaching is a good human being.If you do not , I am certain you are a good human being.Now can you please proove that none of the above things exist in islamic teachings? Qran only idiots also can contribute. Notice I have not used any bad words or cursing words.I have made a clear distinction between people who are born in a so called moslem family and those who practice islamic teachings.
By the way correct me if I am wrong.You must be a non arab asian moslem.Am I right?
To proudkafir This is a reply
To proudkafir
This is a reply to Comment ID #25858
October 7, 2009 • 1:46 pm
----You stated ["The Truth is not islam. That is the truth."]
++ What makes you so sure? Do you have any solid evidence to justify your claim?
----You stated ["Iam not angry at people who are born in to moslem families for no fault of theirs!"]
++ That is good to know.
----You stated["I am not angry or upset at people who are sensible and sane."]
++ I can relate to that.
----You stated ["I am against the philosophy that teaches one the following aspects.I am disgusted with people who want to follow such a pathological satanic teachings.Now let me see if you can convince me that these are perfectly sane and sensible thing to do in any civilised society."]
++ I am too against "pathological satanic teachings" but I have not encountered any in Islam.
----You stated ["Islam teaches that the kafirs are to be killed where ever you find them"]
++ Any prove of that? If so, I would like to see it.
----You stated ["Islam also teaches that kafir women are game for sex any time any where.Right hand possessions.This I find despicable. Give up this aspect of qran and I may consider the islam as ok!"]
++ Can you provide some evidence of that in the Quran? If so, what verse?
----You stated ["Islam also teaches you that your daughter in law is fine for you to go in to ! Allah himself says it should be ok to screw a daughter in law.This I find obnoxious.Get rid of this from qran and I am willing to follow qran!"]
++ Any proof to support your claim?
----You stated ["Islam teaches you disrespect the kafiroons and this i find quite abhoring."]
++ Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
----You stated ["Islam also teaches that women are inferior to man and are deficient in intelligence.Wipe this rubbish out of qran and I am willing to follow islam."]
++ Any proof?
----You stated ["Islam preaches you to lie and I find this strange that god should tell you to do so! get this away and I am willing to follow islam."]
++ Any evidence?
----You stated ["Islam preaches you that all the idols should be destroyed and al the polytheists are fuel for hell fire. I am disgusted with such thought processes. Get this out of qran and I am willing to be a calm listener."]
++ Aren't the teachings of christianity says the same thing about the non-christians? This point can be debated.
----You stated ["Islam teaches you all to marry children as young as 5 years old and this I find detestable. Kinldy eliminate this concept from qran and am willing to listen to you."]
++ That is incorrect and inaccurate. Must be some form of anti-Islamic propaganda.
----[" Islam teaches you kill kafirs and get 72 virgins and 28 boys in jannat. thsi I find cruel and criminal. Abolish this from qran and am your best buddy."]
++ Not correct. Which verse indicates that in the Quran?
----You stated ["I would be very happy to say any person who does not ascribe to any of the above and all of the above pillars of islamic teaching is a good human being.If you do not , I am certain you are a good human being. Now can you please proove that none of the above things exist in islamic teachings?"]
++The fact is that the above mentioned claims are incorrect. There is much anti-Muslim propaganda out there. This web site is one them. Anyone can say anything about anyone but a prove must be presented. Without that proof no statement can be measured as accurate.
@The Truth: How can you
@The Truth:
How can you seriously maintain the idea that no evidence have been given to prove Islam wrong? Countless of arguments have been given, many of which were counter arguments to claims by muslims of arguments that would indicate Islam is the truth. Yes, some (a lot of) user replies and even some articles resort to attacking muslims or nit picking on issues, but you can't say no evidence was brought up to disprove Islam. There's still a 50.000 dollar challenge up there for you to take. If you are so confident about Islam, then why wouldn't you want to earn a free 50.000 bucks with it? I'm not sure how fair Ali Sina is with people accepting his challenge and all, but I have yet to find a single decent article or post from a muslim that would deny all the claims made against Muhammad with logic and solid arguments.
You say the teachings of Islam have contributed to your success. I will not deny that Islam contains certain good teachings, however, it's not worth following the entire religion just because of a few good philosophical ideas. Saying Islam is the most beautiful religion says more about how bad the other religions would be than how good Islam is. You draw only the good from Islam, and then say Islam made you a better person. How can you say Islam made you better if you only follow a small part of the religion? I don't see you following the commands to attack unbelievers, or the commands to beat up your wife if you fear her disobedience. Maybe because you haven't been in a situation yet where you found it necessary to follow the commands, but they are there. It's like joining the KKK and only following the idea that one should honor it's (white) ancestry and culture, and ignore all the racist bigotry advocated by them and then say the KKK is good and made you a better person. Hitler's regime also brought prosperity to Germany and saying it was devoid of any good would be lying, but the atrocities committed because of his ideology are inexcusable.
Also, saying Zakir Naik has excellent point of views and logical thinking is ridicilous. Here's an example of Zakir Naik's "excellent" logic: Islam allows men to marry 4 wives because there are more women than men on the world (which is a lie) and to avoid women from becoming "public property". Wow, great logic there Zakir. Of course only a muslim, who cannot think of a woman anyway other than "property", would assume an unmarried woman would become "public property" and that the "honor" of marrying a man as a second, third, or fourth rate wife would save her from this. He's completely oblivious to the fact that in the civilized (read: non-Islamic) parts of the world, women have gained independence a long time ago and do not need a man anymore to support them and are often more powerful than many men. Assuming these women are "public property" is ludicrous. I'm pretty sure that the majority of women would prefer this "public property" status over being a second/third/fourth rate wife of a sexist pig husband. The very fact that he calls these unmarried women "public property" attest to the fact that he sees married women just as much as "property", except that they are the property of one man only.
To Nameless; This is in reply
To Nameless;
This is in reply to Comment ID #25868
October 7, 2009 • 2:45 pm
----You stated ["Countless of arguments have been given, many of which were counter arguments to claims by muslims of arguments that would indicate Islam is the truth. Yes, some (a lot of) user replies and even some articles resort to attacking muslims or nit picking on issues, but you can’t say no evidence was brought up to disprove Islam. There’s still a 50.000 dollar challenge up there for you to take. If you are so confident about Islam, then why wouldn’t you want to earn a free 50.000 bucks with it? I’m not sure how fair Ali Sina is with people accepting his challenge and all, but I have yet to find a single decent article or post from a muslim that would deny all the claims made against Muhammad with logic and solid arguments."]
++ What makes you assume that I am intereted in money to bring it up? False assumption are always dangerous. Ali Sina's wants any Muslim to prove that Islam is right. That is like I am saying to you " Unless you prove to me that you are not a child molester, then you must be a child molester."
Before Sina's asks Muslims to a Challenge he needs to prove to Muslims that he is up to the challenge. One way to do it is by proving or disproving by himself the following statement using mathematical logic and/or Venn diagram:
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”
----You stated ["You say the teachings of Islam have contributed to your success. I will not deny that Islam contains certain good teachings, however, it’s not worth following the entire religion just because of a few good philosophical ideas. Saying Islam is the most beautiful religion says more about how bad the other religions would be than how good Islam is. You draw only the good from Islam, and then say Islam made you a better person. How can you say Islam made you better if you only follow a small part of the religion? I don’t see you following the commands to attack unbelievers, or the commands to beat up your wife if you fear her disobedience. Maybe because you haven’t been in a situation yet where you found it necessary to follow the commands, but they are there. It’s like joining the KKK and only following the idea that one should honor it’s (white) ancestry and culture, and ignore all the racist bigotry advocated by them and then say the KKK is good and made you a better person. Hitler’s regime also brought prosperity to Germany and saying it was devoid of any good would be lying, but the atrocities committed because of his ideology are inexcusable"]
++What KKK and Hitler has anything to do with Islam? Your parallels here constitues a logical fallacy and your statements lack proof and evidence. Anyone can claim anything about anyone but a prove must always accompany a claim. That is what you did not do.
----You stated ["Also, saying Zakir Naik has excellent point of views and logical thinking is ridicilous. Here’s an example of Zakir Naik’s “excellent” logic: Islam allows men to marry 4 wives because there are more women than men on the world (which is a lie) and to avoid women from becoming “public property”. Wow, great logic there Zakir. Of course only a muslim, who cannot think of a woman anyway other than “property”, would assume an unmarried woman would become “public property” and that the “honor” of marrying a man as a second, third, or fourth rate wife would save her from this. He’s completely oblivious to the fact that in the civilized (read: non-Islamic) parts of the world, women have gained independence a long time ago and do not need a man anymore to support them and are often more powerful than many men. Assuming these women are “public property” is ludicrous. I’m pretty sure that the majority of women would prefer this “public property” status over being a second/third/fourth rate wife of a sexist pig husband. The very fact that he calls these unmarried women “public property” attest to the fact that he sees married women just as much as “property”, except that they are the property of one man only."]
++ Before you try to comment on Dr. Zakir Naik arguments, you need first to teach your supporters the ethics of a debate. Need I remind you that insults as presented in Comment ID #25839 are not considered a form of proof. Or may be these insults are the result of Ali Sinner great teaching strategies. But that should not be a surprise where the Islamic teachings are not taught!
The truth, comment #25797: If
The truth, comment #25797:
If we are going to be logical about this then can I draw your attention to your statement "Islam is a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion.."
This is an oxymoron. How can something that is true be found to be false? It is like saying "the light was on, but some people found it to be off."
However, set that aside.
The questions I want answering are these:
If Islam is peaceful and seeks cooperation and coexistence why:
a. Are all international terrorists Moslem?
b. is there so much murderous fractricide between
i) Sunni and Shia.
ii) Taliban and anyone-who-disagrees-with-them.
c. do moslems attack UN aid agencies?
d. Why do many Mosques preach hatred of
i) the West.
ii) democracy.
iii) Israel.
(Actually, this is only a sub-set of my questions, but will do for now.)
Sources for the above: BBC news bulletins (a,b,c), Police reports (a), investigative Journalism (d), what I've heard - witnessed (d).
In other words these are real events occurring in the real world being perpetrated by 'real' Muslims.
To jonc This in reply to
To jonc
This in reply to Comment ID #25881
October 7, 2009 • 4:10 pm .
----You stated[ \The truth, comment #25797:
If we are going to be logical about this then can I draw your attention to your statement “Islam is a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion..”
This is an oxymoron. How can something that is true be found to be false? It is like saying “the light was on, but some people found it to be off.”
However, set that aside.
The questions I want answering are these:
If Islam is peaceful and seeks cooperation and coexistence why:
a. Are all international terrorists Moslem?
b. is there so much murderous fractricide between
i) Sunni and Shia.
ii) Taliban and anyone-who-disagrees-with-them.
c. do moslems attack UN aid agencies?
d. Why do many Mosques preach hatred of
i) the West.
ii) democracy.
iii) Israel.
(Actually, this is only a sub-set of my questions, but will do for now.)
Sources for the above: BBC news bulletins (a,b,c), Police reports (a), investigative Journalism (d), what I’ve heard – witnessed (d).
In other words these are real events occurring in the real world being perpetrated by ‘real’ Muslims.\]
++ The logical argument requires advanced logic to be understood. If you have not studied logic, then you need to take a class or two in logic at the University level.
++ You are asking political questions. I do not answer political questions. However, if you have a question about Islam, I will be happy to debate it with you.
The truth is that 5,4 Billion
The truth is that 5,4 Billion non-muslims agree that Islam is an evil cult.
My question to The "Truth" is:
Do you need to study 'logic at the University level' to know that the sun does not have a resting place,as it says in the Quran?
Islam is such a beautiful
Islam is such a beautiful religion and it is in this such beautiful religion that one finds a husband can beat his wife and if Muslims can be honest to accept that, then the Muslims deserve some respect. But no, Muslims apologists jump up to give all sorts of nonsensical explanations and beating round a big bush to justify it and make a mockery of Islam.
And Islam means peace and each time the faithful prays, Muslims claim that peace multiplies by 10 times but since the appearance of Islam, the world and the Muslims have not had any peace and this means the more Muslims pray, even more than five times daily, peace remains elusive to the Muslims. The only thing consistent seen in Islam is that after Friday prayers, Muslims become frenzy and easily lead to violence cause much destruction. And Muslims call this peace!! Yes, a peace possessed by demonic spirits!!
Does this mean that Muslims' prayers are fake?
There is no such thing calls liberal peaceful Islam for Islam only knows cruelty, bloodshed and death.
To santiago This in reply to
To santiago
This in reply to Comment ID #25898
October 7, 2009 • 4:52 pm .
----You stated [\The truth is that 5,4 Billion non-muslims agree that Islam is an evil cult.
My question to The “Truth” is:
Do you need to study ‘logic at the University level’ to know that the sun does not have a resting place,as it says in the Quran?\]
++ Can you tell in detail and write down where in the Quran it says \the sun does not have a resting place\? Was Allah telling this as a fact or it was mentioned in a story stating someone else who thought about the sun in this way?
++It is easy to take things out of context and manipulate them. Any statement must always be proved. Yet many statements on this web site that portray Islam as a fraud are opinionated and lack evidence as well as proof. And yes you need to study University logic to understand the logic of the Koran and beyond.
To hindsight This in reply to
To hindsight
This in reply to Comment ID #25908
October 7, 2009 • 5:18 pm
----You stated ["Islam is such a beautiful religion and it is in this such beautiful religion that one finds a husband can beat his wife and if Muslims can be honest to accept that, then the Muslims deserve some respect. But no, Muslims apologists jump up to give all sorts of nonsensical explanations and beating round a big bush to justify it and make a mockery of Islam."]
++ That is a misconception about Islam. The true meaning of this verse has been wrongly translated and misinterpreted in Islam. Of course, anti-Muslim propaganda picked on it and have been trying hard to show it as if it is the norm.
You stated ["And Islam means peace and each time the faithful prays, Muslims claim that peace multiplies by 10 times but since the appearance of Islam, the world and the Muslims have not had any peace and this means the more Muslims pray, even more than five times daily, peace remains elusive to the Muslims. The only thing consistent seen in Islam is that after Friday prayers, Muslims become frenzy and easily lead to violence cause much destruction. And Muslims call this peace!! Yes, a peace possessed by demonic spirits!!"]
++ The above paragraph is opinionated. It lacks prove, objectivity and any type of valid evidence.
You stated ["Does this mean that Muslims’ prayers are fake? There is no such thing calls liberal peaceful Islam for Islam only knows cruelty, bloodshed and death."]
++ Another opinionated paragraph. It lacks prove, objectivity and any type of valid evidence. No further comments are necessary
@The Truth You're pulling
@The Truth
You're pulling the common muslim (and believers in general) trick of shifting the burden of proof. In the post I replied to, you state:
"The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category. Solid evidence must be presented to prove Islam is wrong. To the contrary, no evidence was presented to prove that Islam is wrong. Hence, one must conclude that the arguments given against Islam were wrong and misleading."
Basically, you are the one who thinks Islam must be proven wrong. Islam claims to be the true religion of God, the burden of proof is on you people. Islam does not have a privileged position where it's initial state is "right" and others need to disprove it. Islam needs to be proven first, and then others can disprove those claims. You accuse this site of never giving decent arguments or evidence, yet where is the evidence that proves Islam right? And again, I don't see your problem. This site usually quotes their resources, which are most often Islamic sources themselves, when making claims about Islam or it's prophet. If you do not find this evidence, then you have no idea what evidence is.
Islam works just like your metaphor of the child molestor accusation. The one who makes the claim (Islam is the true religion), needs to bring the proof. Only when you come with "evidence" for your claim (the guy is a child molestor, Islam is the true religion etc.), the other party will need to react to either disprove said evidence or come up with better evidence for their case. I really don't see how Ali Sina's challenge is any different. He accuses Muhammad of various crimes, he shows evidence by quoting the Qur'an and/or Hadith where these accusations found their grounding and now it's up to muslims to disprove his accusations. Why would he need to prove himself first that he is up to the challenge? Did Allah have to do some random test to prove himself first when he made the "Write a Surah like it" challenge?
Saying that you're not interested in the money is stupid. Even without being interested by the money, you should feel motivated to take up the challenge as it's an attack against your religion and you are positive that they're false accusations. Even if you don't need the money, by winning the challenge you deprive the "enemies of Islam" of 50,000 bucks and you can donate this to a charity or something.
What my claims about the KKK and Hitler had to do with Islam? Over here at FFI, pretty much everyone holds the position that Islam is evil or bad for mankind, just like the KKK is and Hitler was. There have been many articles, with quotes coming almost exclusively from Islamic sources themselves, that back up this sentiment. You mentioned Islam is a beautiful religion and that it contributed to your success, now THAT is a logical fallacy. Where is YOUR proof that Islam made you a better person? Really, I'm making some claims about Islam not being beautiful and even evil, and you ask me for evidence, yet you provide ZERO evidence for your arguments as well. It's the burden of proof shifting trick once more. If you truly paid attention to this site the last few weeks or even months, you would've found countless of proof for the claims being made here. The evidence is there, you just choose to ignore it. You can't use the "no evidence is provided" argument if you're simply ignoring said evidence.
Also, why dance around my argument? That others choose to insult you, is not of my business. I cannot control other people and tell them what to do. The comment section on articles is not an official debate, so going on about the ethics of a debate is pointless. Try responding to my comment itself, not to others that I have nothing to do with.
Since you seem to be so horny about evidence, I'll give you some evidence for the questions you ask in Comment ID #25867.
Example of where the Qur'an commands it's followers to attack "Kaffir": 9:05, 9:29
Verse that allows sex with slaves/right hand possessions: 23:06
Verse where daughter in law is made lawful to you: 33:37
Verses disrespectul to kafir: 2:9, 2:10, 2:96, 2:171, 2:254, 5:45, 7:27, 7:176, 7:177, 8:22, 8:55, 8:65, 63:4 and so on.
Verse saying men are better than women: 2:228
Women are deficient in intelligence: Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826
Muslims being allowed to lie, look up taqiyya.
The teachings of Christianity, no one cares about that. Non-muslims consist out of atheists, agnosts, buddhists, hindu's, christians, jews, zoroastrians etc. While some might follow those teachings, the majority of non-muslims don't.
Islam teaching you to marry young children: 33:21 teaches you that Muhammad is an example, and Muhammad married a 6 year old.
In closing, I'd like to state that there's a difference between anti-Muslim and anti-Islam and between propaganda and accusations based on the sources of Islam itself.
To nameless, Geweldig goed
To nameless,
Geweldig goed gezegd! Dank je wel! Over het verschuiven van de bewijsvoeringsverplichting van "The Truth".
Translation: Very well said! Thanks! About the shifting of the burden of proof by "The Truth".
@ the True Liar: If Islam is
@ the True Liar:
If Islam is the religion of peace, why are non-Muslims (especially Christians) persecuted everyday in Muslim countries?
Proving the religion of peace
Proving the religion of peace is not by repetition of words. Words don't become reality.
It always makes me laugh when
It always makes me laugh when muslims call him Ali Sinner! Quite pathetic really.
To Nameless This isin reply
To Nameless
This isin reply to Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["You’re pulling the common muslim (and believers in general) trick of shifting the burden of proof. In the post I replied to, you state:
“The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category. Solid evidence must be presented to prove Islam is wrong. To the contrary, no evidence was presented to prove that Islam is wrong. Hence, one must conclude that the arguments given against Islam were wrong and misleading.”]
++You need to include the whole posting for all see the dependency of the argument:
[[Four statements can be made about Islam:
1. Islam is a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion.
2. Islam is not a true religion, but some people found it not to be a true religion.
3. Islam is a true religion, but some people found it to be a true religion.
4. Islam is not a true religion, but some people found it to be a true religion.
According to logic the following is always true:
Category 1: if T==>F, False argument
Category 2: if F==>F, Correct argument
Category 3: if T==>T, Correct argument
Category 4: if F==>T, Correct argument
The arguments presented by non Muslims against Islam on this web site fit the 1st Category. Solid evidence must be presented to prove Islam is wrong. To the contrary, no evidence was presented to prove that Islam is wrong. Hence, one must conclude that the arguments given against Islam were wrong and misleading.]]
Now prove step by step the fallacy of the above mentioned argument as you claim.
To Nameless This in reply tp
To Nameless
This in reply tp Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["Islam claims to be the true religion of God, the burden of proof is on you people."]
++ Islam has already proved itself to be a true religion through the Miracle of the Koran. An example of a valid proof and solid evidence that can be examined in regard to the “Miracles of the Quran” and that it is a true religion of God can be found in the links below:
01. http://miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_02.html
02. http://miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html
To The Truth This in reply to
To The Truth
This in reply to Comment ID #25989
October 8, 2009 • 12:13 am
----You stated ["Islam needs to be proven first, and then others can disprove those claims."]
++ The above statement is a logical fallacy. You can not logically and mathematically ask anyone to prove a claim you have made. That is like I am telling you “Unless you prove to me that you are not a child molester, then you must be a child molester.” or I ask a woman “Unless you prove to me that you are a virgin, then you must not be a virgin.” Of course neither you nor she will honor my claim for it is indecent and an illogical request.
You are here making all the false claims about Islam. The burdon of proof is on the accuser. That is the bottom line.
To Nameless This is in reply
To Nameless
This is in reply to Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["He accuses Muhammad of various crimes, he shows evidence by quoting the Qur’an and/or Hadith where these accusations found their grounding and now it’s up to muslims to disprove his accusations. Why would he need to prove himself first that he is up to the challenge?"]
++ The so called evidence presented by Ali Sinner does not satisfy the rules of logic. Taking words out of context and pick and choose what satisfies a premise of an argument doesn't constute a form of proof or evidence. Ali Sinner has just done that.
To Nameless This is in reply
To Nameless
This is in reply to Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["Saying that you’re not interested in the money is stupid. Even without being interested by the money, you should feel motivated to take up the challenge as it’s an attack against your religion and you are positive that they’re false accusations. Even if you don’t need the money, by winning the challenge you deprive the “enemies of Islam” of 50,000 bucks and you can donate this to a charity or something."]
++ Like I said earlier, assumption are always dangerous. You are making so many assumptions. I don't comment on assumptions and personal opinions.
To Nameless This is in reply
To Nameless
This is in reply to Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["If you truly paid attention to this site the last few weeks or even months, you would’ve found countless of proof for the claims being made here. The evidence is there, you just choose to ignore it."]
++ What is called a proof on this web site by you and Ali Sinner is in reality a logical fallacy. Can you prove or disprove the following statement using mathematical logic and/or Venn diagram:
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”?
To Nameless This is in reply
To Nameless
This is in reply to Comment ID #25948
October 7, 2009 • 7:11 pm
----You stated ["Since you seem to be so horny about evidence, I’ll give you some evidence for the questions you ask in Comment ID #25867.
Example of where the Qur’an commands it’s followers to attack “Kaffir”: 9:05, 9:29
Verse that allows sex with slaves/right hand possessions: 23:06
Verse where daughter in law is made lawful to you: 33:37
Verses disrespectul to kafir: 2:9, 2:10, 2:96, 2:171, 2:254, 5:45, 7:27, 7:176, 7:177, 8:22, 8:55, 8:65, 63:4 and so on.
Verse saying men are better than women: 2:228
Women are deficient in intelligence: Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826
Muslims being allowed to lie, look up taqiyya."]
++ The descriptions you made about the versus and what they stand for is not correct and inaccurate.
++ It is like if I am saying "Don't come to prayers and you are drunk." You take the first four words in my statement and say to everyone "The truth" said "Don't come to prayers ".
++ Fabrication of facts is never considered a form of proof and there is plenty of it on this web site.
So called Truth: ++ What is
So called Truth:
++ What is called a proof on this web site by you and Ali Sinner is in reality a logical fallacy. Can you prove or disprove the following statement using mathematical logic and/or Venn diagram:
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”?
Truth, can you mathematically prove the 911 terrorists were not Muslim?
Only Muslims go all over the world killing innocent people. Therefore I would concur virtually all terrorists are Muslims. All the bullshit you dole out will not change this fact.
The Truth ( Who is really
The Truth ( Who is really falsehood )
++ Islam has already proved itself to be a true religion through the Miracle of the Koran. An example of a valid proof and solid evidence that can be examined in regard to the “Miracles of the Quran” and that it is a true religion of God can be found in the links below:
I say:
Hahahahahaha
Sigh, why do you want to have
Sigh, why do you want to have some nonsensical discussion about a totally irrelevant subject (proof, fallacies, Venn-diagrams etc.) instead of just replying to the content of posts themselves?
1. Don't worry, I only quoted part of your post not to repeat the entire thing again. The post is there for people to look it up so there's no need for posting it twice. You claim all the accusations on this site fall into category 1, this is nonsense. Many articles here were about disproving the idea that Islam came from God. In reality, the articles would be in category 4. Category 1 assumes Islam is true, which it is not. It only is so according to you, yet you didn't provide any evidence for this until now, which I'll adress in a moment.
2. Now you finally come up with "proof" that indicates Islam is the true religion. First of all, the 19 miracle doesn't prove anything, it just proves some odd link between the number 19 and certain contents of the Qur'an. If the Qur'an was fabricated by a human, this still could've been done. Humans have adopted subliminal messages into their creations for many years. The other article, about predicting the moon landing also contains a lot of fantasy. Also, even if it contains a "miracle", as soon as it contains one other mistake it's immediatly proven as false. So you're going to have to provide a good defense against every accusation of a fault existing in the Qur'an in order to prove Islam right anyway, even with these "miracles" around.
The funny thing however, is that even after all your constant bickering about this site spreading lies and propaganda and never giving evidence, both your articles have been handled a LONG time ago.
Here are the two links:
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Islamic_Prophecies:_Moon_landing
http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm#23
3. You CAN disprove claims that have been made. Why? Because these claims aren't baseless claims. When Ali Sina claims Muhammad is a pedophile for example, he explains why. He doesn't just pull the accusation out of his ass. I agree with you that if he just said "Muhammad was a smurf, and if no one can disprove this, he was a smurf" without any evidence indicating that he was in fact a smurf, it would've been ridicilous and not worthy of attention, but that's not the case here. The case here is "Muhammad is a pedophile, based upon so and so (Islamic source), now try to deny this". The burden of proof is indeed on the one making the accusation, and that is why all accusations made by this site are based upon Islamic sources themselves and proof is thus supplied. And again, claiming Islam is true, is also something that must be proven. You're abusing the same logical fallacy you give an example for, “Unless you prove to me that you are not a child molester, then you must be a child molester.” This translates to your statement: "Solid evidence must be presented to prove Islam is wrong."
4. You say Ali Sina does not satisfy the rules of logic because he takes stuff out of context and because he picks and chooses what satisfies a premise of an argument. Yet 2 posts earlier you linked articles about "Islamic miracles" that did EXACTLY that. They want to prove Islam is right, thus they quote the verse of the splitting of the moon completely out of context and try to link it to the moon landing. This whole "Islamic miracles" business fits exactly what you accuse Ali Sina of doing. Having an argument beforehand and then taking verses out of context and choosing the premise of an argument.
5. Really, what does it matter if I'm making assumptions? Why don't you just take up the damn challenge? Who cares if you do it for money, self-esteem or whatever. Why bother replying to random posters but not the accussations listed by the person who you accuse us of "following"? You're a typical example of talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
6. Really, why do you need a freakin' Venn diagram? Also, what has your case of "Not every muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist is a muslim" to do with ANYTHING? Anyway, here's your damn diagram: http://i36.tinypic.com/11ioo4y.png
7. Great, accusing us of not bringing any proof when we make accusations against Islam and now you do exactly that. The verses I enlist and what they stand for are not accurate? Ok, how about you PROVE this? You can't just say "they are innacurate and incorrect" when you make dozens of posts crying about how the accusations on this site are baseless and without evidence.
8. I really don't get what your example of taking something out of context had anything to do with me. I don't take anything out of context. You ask where the Qur'an states so and so, and I provide you the verse numbers. I don't pull the verse out of context, because if that was my goal I would've just quoted the verse itself. By providing the numbers only you'll be forced to look them up and thus you'll immediatly see the context.
9. How about you prove these so called "fabrications of facts" are indeed "fabrications". Since you like examples, here's one. You accuse me of being a child molestor, and I say I am innocent. Thus you come up with "evidence" to prove that I am a child molestor, let's say you provide an inappropiate picture of me with a child. Now I say "THAT PICTURE IS A FABRICATION AND THUS NO EVIDENCE!". Up to who is it to prove that it's a fabrication? That's right, me, because I claim it's a fabrication. Therefore, it's up to you now to prove that these "facts" are indeed "fabricated" as you claim.
Basically, you are scared, for whatever reason, to dive into the discussion on the subject of Islam itself and instead try to waste our time and distract us by shifting the discussion to nonsense like burden of proof, Venn-diagrams and logical fallacies. Seriously, do you see us saying your Islamic propaganda site articles were based upon logical fallacies and lies and then leave it for what it is? No, instead we tackle them by going in depth on the claims made in them. If you would do the same when I provide you some Quranic verses, we could have a real discussion, but if you're more concerned with people getting through your personal check list of requirements for an argument to even be considered worthy, then discussing with you is just a waste of time and space.
The truth chappy can be 1.In
The truth chappy can be
1.In complete denial and psychie Need s psychiatric admission urgently
2.Completely ignorant about qrand. Needs to visit FFI on a regular basis
3.Is too scared to accept the truth that islam is all crap. Needs a lot of islam bashing sessions
4.A taqiya tactician and a hidden danger. Needs FBI reporting
5.True jihadi who is waiting for islam to make entrance in to US before putting his sword to your necks.Needs to be kicked out of US.
6.Recent convert criminal.Needs to be back in prison.
All in all not a normal sensible human being
"Women are higher than men in
"Women are higher than men in numbers the world-over, this necessitates the marriage to four wives"
Zakir kind of thought, very unthoughtful, even according to Islamic morality, this fails, a man married to four wives is likely to produce twelve more unmarried women to the society, with breeding rate of Muslims, four girls from each woman is quite possible, even if we cut it down to only two daughters per wife, the number of unmarried women given back to the ummah is higher than that which the man took off the community, a man with two wives has the potentiality of producing 7 boys and 6 girls, or 8 girls and 4 boys, or whatever higher number that is more than the wives the man acquired, Muslims just keep covering themselves with stupid logics and claim divine intelligence, Zakir Naik is really fooling the flock.
Muslims apologists are liars
Muslims apologists are liars and hypocrites.
When others do not agree that Islam means peace, Muslims kill them and because of this, it makes Islam peace. What a fake!!
Of course, death is peace! Death may not be just a zero. It could be a ghastly hallucination of square root of minus one. Only demonic Islamists celebrate death. Humanity celebrates life and humanity values life.
Mo hit his child bride Aishai on the chest and Aishai said it caused her GREAT PAIN but this is nonsensical to Muslim apologists and to add salts into the wound, what Aishai said becomes a misconception about Islam. And suddenly the meaning of the hadith has become wrongly translated and misinterpreted!!
Mo gave authority for husbands to beat their wives and this is wrongly translated again. So the Quran and the hadith are full of mistranslations and they should be kept where najis is.
Seriously, a joke is no laughing matter and even for a moderate Muslim, this moderate Muslim can turn into an Islamist terrorist overnight. So another mistranslation and misinterpretation.
Islamists refuse to accept facts, rationalism and even proofs. They believe in lies and mythologies and this Allah can't even divide inheritance properly and of course, another misinterpretation as it was said, the road to hell is pave with good intentions.
Every terrorist is a moslem
Every terrorist is a moslem and every moslem is not a terrorist.True to an extent with a qualification.Every moslem has the potential to become a terrorist at the drop of the skull cap! So that makes it as every moslem is either a terrorist or a potential terrorist! There we are .We can sprout this statement when ever the bleeding liberals keep saying this every moslem is not a terrorist.
To Nameless This in reply to
To Nameless
This in reply to Comment ID #26011
October 8, 2009 • 3:59 am
You stated [" The case here is “Muhammad is a pedophile, based upon so and so (Islamic source), now try to deny this”.]
++ According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile it states
“In strictly behavioral contexts, the word “pedophilia” has been used to refer to child sexual abuse itself, also called “pedophilic behavior”.
++ Since the prophet married Aisha legally and a rape or sexual abuse did not occur, your statement about the Prophet Muhammad that he is a pedophille has been proven wrong.
++ In addition, there are some people out there who use and justify the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha for their own sexual desires and they end up raping or hurting the child. Those are called Pedophiles. To the contrary, one can not equate or compare the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha by any other marriage done by someone else with a child. The circumstances are different. No one really knows all the facts about the Prophet marriage to Aisha but Allah. There might be some compelling reasons that no one knows about. However, all the current evidence point to the fact that the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha done no harm to her mentally, physically or anything else. May be it is just another miracle!
To Nameless; This is in reply
To Nameless;
This is in reply to Comment ID #26011
October 8, 2009 • 3:59 am
You stated ["The funny thing however, is that even after all your constant bickering about this site spreading lies and propaganda and never giving evidence, both your articles have been handled a LONG time ago.
Here are the two links:
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Islamic_Prophecies:_Moon_landing
http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm#23 "]
++ You have cited a totally different links.
++ The links I have mentioned about the Miracles of the Koran and that Islam is a true religion of God are not the same as the one mentioned in your post. Learn not to distort the truth. Stick exactly to the 2 links I have mentioned below and prove them wrong if you can.
++ 01. http://miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_02.html
++ 02. http://miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html
To proudkafir; This a reply
To proudkafir;
This a reply to Comment ID #26056
October 8, 2009 • 12:21 pm .
---- You stated ["The truth chappy can be
1.In complete denial and psychie Need s psychiatric admission urgently
2.Completely ignorant about qrand. Needs to visit FFI on a regular basis
3.Is too scared to accept the truth that islam is all crap. Needs a lot of islam bashing sessions
4.A taqiya tactician and a hidden danger. Needs FBI reporting
5.True jihadi who is waiting for islam to make entrance in to US before putting his sword to your necks.Needs to be kicked out of US.
6.Recent convert criminal.Needs to be back in prison.
All in all not a normal sensible human being"]
++ Is that all what you can think of. Go back to school and take a class or two in logic. You don't even know how to spell. There is a saying here in the USA, "When someone can't prove the issues, they attack the person and use filthy language". The lack of reason and logic within you must be the contributing factor to the filthy language that is coming out of your mouth.
To hindsight This is in reply
To hindsight
This is in reply to Comment ID #26076
October 8, 2009 • 1:54 pm .
----You stated ["Islamists refuse to accept facts, rationalism and even proofs."]
++ Were there any facts, rationalism or proofs ever presented to support any of your claims? None is out there. All what is presented for proof by you, Ali Sinner and others is personal opinions, isolated incidents and hearsay.
++ Can you prove to me who created us? Can you prove to me where we came from? Can you prove to me what will happen to us after we die? Can you prove to me that there is no one in this universe except us? Can you prove to me that no invisible creatures ever existed among us? At least Islam has answered in the Quran these questions and much more. Unless someone can provide a better explanation of what the Quran has provided, Islam must remain the religion that every one should adopt.
@The Truth First of all,
@The Truth
First of all, wikipedia isn't always a reliable source. You're also only quoting the definition for pedophilia in behavioral contexts, and not the definition of a pedophile. Using your own link, we can see that you have cleverly left out the following statements for example:
"As a medical diagnosis, it is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children."
"According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), pedophilia is specified as a form of paraphilia in which a person either has acted on intense sexual urges towards children, or experiences recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about children that cause distress or interpersonal difficulty."
Who were you accusing of taking things out of context and picking and choosing again?
The real definition of a pedophile is as follows: "An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile)
So: Was Muhammad an adult? Yes! Was Aisha a child? Yes! Was Muhammad sexually attracted to her? Yes! And thus, was Muhammad a pedophile? Yes!
A pedophile doesn't have to rape children to be a pedophile, just being sexually attracted to them makes you a pedophile. Thus, Muhammad is still a pedophile and you haven't proven anything wrong. On top of this, Muhammad went a step further than most pedophiles by actually having sex with a child, so if anything he's more of a pedophile than certain people who are labeled as a pedophile these days.
That the marriage didn't harm Aisha physically is also a lie. First of all, any decent human being would find having sex with a 9 year old enough of a physical abuse as it is. And besides that, the fact that after 9 years of having sex with her she didn't get pregnant even once is suspicious. One might think her reproductionary organs could've been damaged due to engaging sex at such an extremely young age. However, this is jumping to conclusions and there's no solid evidence for this (as Aisha wasn't allowed to marry anyone else after the Prophet's death and thus we have no way of verifying whether it was just because Muhammad had low fertility or because Aisha was permanently damaged), so I'll let that one slip. However, there is still evidence for another case where Muhammad DID harm Aisha physically: "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain"
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/musli...
And in your last post, you are once again, doing what you accuse others of doing, and that is following a fallacy. Just because Islam provides the best answers to these questions (according to you), does NOT mean that they are valid or right answers. If I ask someone "what is the color of the grass"? And one says, it is red, the other says, it is blue, then the one who said blue gave the best answer as mixing blue and yellow leads to green but it is STILL a WRONG answer. Answers are completely USELESS without the evidence to back them up and unless they're 100% solid answers. The Qur'an can claim this and that, but where is the proof for this? Islam says you either go to hell or heaven after you die, where is the proof? Do atheists know an answer to this? Most likely they'll say something along the lines of "you'll just be dead and no longer conscious", how is the Qur'ans answer any better than that? Also, you're asking false questions. You're asking "Can you prove to me who created us?" which already assumes the idea that we were in fact created by someone, which there is no evidence for. You're asking invalid questions by having your own criteria that forces the person who is answering the question into a limited amount of freedom to answer said question. You should've learned this during interviewing 101 classes at school.
Instead, you should be asking those questions to yourself. Can YOU prove that invisible creatures existed among us? Can YOU prove that we were in fact created? Can YOU prove that you know what happens after we die?
Nameless, "Do atheists know
Nameless,
"Do atheists know an answer to this? Most likely they’ll say something along the lines of “you’ll just be dead and no longer conscious”,"
You raised a very interesting point here. Let's track back at the moment before humans were born, because it's already happened so excuses like "why don't you die first then come back to tell the tale" cannot be applied here. What was the condition of humans before he/she enter this world? Where were they? Were they aware or not? Logically, the state after we die is the same with before we were born. This too must be explained by muslim with solid proof.
To Nameless; This in reply to
To Nameless;
This in reply to Comment ID #26122
October 8, 2009 • 7:01 pm
----You stated [" First of all, wikipedia isn’t always a reliable source. The real definition of a pedophile is as follows: “An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.” (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile)an adult who is sexually attracted to young children."]
++ We can play the game of defining a pedophle all day long. The true definition of a pedophile is located at http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pedofile
++ If I said “Don’t come to prayers and you are drunk.” and you take the first four words in my statement then say to everyone “The truth” said “Don’t come to prayers “. That is considered a lie and fabrication. You are quote an unrelaible source that have left the part "sexually abused or hurt the child." from a definition of a Pedophille.
++ A pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children and sexually abused or hurt the child.
++ Since the prophet married Aisha legally and a rape or sexual abuse did not occur, your statement about the Prophet Muhammad that he is a pedophille has been proven wrong.
++ In addition, there are some people out there who use and justify the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha for their own sexual desires and they end up raping or hurting the child. Those are called Pedophiles. To the contrary, one can not equate or compare the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha by any other marriage done by someone else with a child. The circumstances are different. No one really knows all the facts about the Prophet marriage to Aisha but Allah. There might be some compelling reasons that no one knows about. However, all the current evidence point to the fact that the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha done no harm to her mentally, physically or anything else. May be it is just another miracle!
To Nameless This is in reply
To Nameless
This is in reply to Comment ID #26011
October 8, 2009 • 3:59 am
++ I asked [["Before Sina’s asks Muslims to a Challenge he needs to prove to Muslims that he is up to the challenge. One way to do it is by proving or disproving by himself the following statement using mathematical logic and/or Venn diagram:
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”]]
You stated ["Really, why do you need a freakin’ Venn diagram? Also, what has your case of “Not every muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist is a muslim” to do with ANYTHING? Anyway, here’s your damn diagram: "]
The proof you have provided in the link http://i36.tinypic.com/11ioo4y.png about the above statement is wrong. Why should anyone accept an argument by someone who lacks the very basic understandings of logic? It would be an illogical move.
TO ALL MUSLIMS I HAVE GREAT
TO ALL MUSLIMS
I HAVE GREAT NEWS:
MOST TERRORISTS ARE NOT MUSLIMS
But how do you explain the 14058 terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11 or the fact that 5 million Muslims have been killed by Muslims since 1970?