The Left and Mullahs in Iran
Submitted by Jahanshah Rashidian on Thu, 01/22/2009 - 06:10
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One may argue over many flaws of Communism and its historical mistakes or ideological inadaptability to democracy. However, in Iran, Communism has been stained with co-religionists and this is a sticky stain which has not been removed since the 1979 revolution.
After the Iranian revolution (the most popular leftist movement of contemporary Iranian history), Marxist-Leninist "OIPFG" (People's Organisation of Fedayeen Guerrillas) is a typical example of such stigma. Needless to say, there were leftist intellectuals and small groups who did not bow to the supremacy of Khomeini. The word "left or leftist" only designates (in this article) the pro Soviet political bodies, called Tudeh Party and a faction of OIPFG, called Majority. They were both orchestrated by the Kremlin to unconditionally support the "anti-American" IRI. Majority was created due to a split in 1980 within the OIPFG. The other part of this organisation, called Minority, continued fighting along with several other leftist groups against the "bourgeois" IRI-all this opposition was systematically and gradually slaughtered, dispelled, or dismantled by the regime.
The OIPFG was founded by some young educated or student revolutionaries at the end of 1960's. It proclaimed its struggle in 1971, when a group of armed Fedayeens captured a rural police station called "Siahkal". Regarding the absolute dictatorship of the Shah's regime, they believed that acquiring freedom and social justice can only occur within armed struggles of the revolutionary vanguard, which in turn will end up with a mass revolution. Other "non-violent" ways were considered complaisant and ineffective, both due to the failed experiences of Tudeh Party and Front National (a large pro- Mossadegh spectrum). Thus these two main opposition groups were not able to mobilise people against the Shah's absolute dictatorship - at that time, terms like terrorism, adventurism, petit bourgeois utopia, etc. were not labels of such armed movements.
Considering the international unrest of 1960's, France and Germany were overwhelmed by student demonstrations in May 1968, almost causing a revolutionary situation in France. Numerous left-wing groups emerged in Germany, Italy, France and other western countries. Armed groups like IRA in North Ireland and ETA in Basque were involved in armed struggles. Revolutionary activities in Latin America attracted popular support in European youth. Their struggles were considered a "heroic" exercise of people's freedom. Even European states (especially those headed by Socialist or Social Democratic parties) had to consider the sympathy of their intelligentsia for such revolutionary and anti American movements. Castro's idea of "bullets, not ballots, were the way to achieve power" had political sense. Régis Debray became Mitterrand's adviser for Latin America. He was a co-fighter of Che Guevara in Bolivia in 1967 and a revolutionary author whose book" Revolution in Revolution" inspired the Fedayeens.
Needless to say armed struggles then were spared from any connotation of terrorism or political Islam. A great number of Western youth with leftist or alternative worldview had sympathy for Palestine Liberation Front and hence used to wear a Palestinian scarf as a popular sign of their solidarity with Palestinian militants. The Front represented more than a passing similarity to the today's appealing Islamists of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Although the socio-economic conditions that favoured armed struggles in Latin America were not similar to those of an Islamic society like Iran, Fedayeens' armed struggle was largely inspired from the revolutionary experiences in Latin America. They theorised that armed struggles would promote a mass revolution in Iran, as happened in Cuba. There is no single page of history from the early founders of Fedayeens dealing with Islam and its role in such a revolution. In their analyses, an important social factor like Islam is completely absent.
Contrary to some priests in Latin America, Mullahs in Iran could never reconcile with collectivism, socialism and materialism of the left. From Safavid Dynasty to the Shah (except under 16-year Reza Shah's reign), The Iranian clergy or Mullahs have always created a common bond with monarchy. This alliance was later used by colonial powers to keep the status quo. A 16-year period under Reza Shah aside, Mullahs have been growing their socio-political power since the compelling "Shiitisation" of Iran by the Safavids in 16's century. In the 60's, Ayatollah Khomeini opposed the Shah's land reform and right of voting to women, and hence he led an Islamic movement opposing Shah's "un-Islamic reforms."
Neither Tudeh party, a pro-USSR party, nor Marxist-Leninist OIPFG, could introduce Marx's "Religion is people's opiate" into their social analyses--instead, they considered "anti-imperialist" Muslim movements as their strategic allies. No wonder that after the Iranian revolution, both ex-rivals (the Tudeh Party and a majority of Central Committee non-pro Soviet OIPFG' called Majority, despite their deepening friction) came together to unconditionally support "anti imperialist" Khomeini and his Islamist movement-- until these two "profane atheists", like other leftists, succumbed under Khomeini's Islamic sword in 1982.
Their blind support of the Islamic regime reached a treacherous level of collaboration with the repressive organisations and right-wing paramilitary thugs of the regime-- who were nationwide identifying and arresting "agents of imperialism". Many thousands of these "agents", including a number of minors, were executed. In reality a great number of the victims were teens or young people, who were murdered for demanding basic democracy.
Working class, that these pseudo- leftists pretended to support, lost the little rights they had won during the revolution and in vain attempted to keep after the revolution. Their new independent trade unions were banned and replaced by Islamic societies formed by the Ministry of Labour. Their profit share and bonuses which were established under the Shah were nullified. The right of strike was rejected. Wages stayed low, many factories were shut down; and their workers were fired without any unemployment benefit. Because of protests, many workers were arrested, jailed, and executed by the Islamic regime, whereas this spectrum of left continued supporting the Mullahs' regime.
For this body of the Iranian left, terms like human rights, individual freedom, women's rights did not belong to their preoccupation. There have been divisions based on class, ideology, and any class related antagonistic factors. In this perspective, they argued that domestic capitalists consistently represented the interests of Imperialists, but the role of Mullahs and its traditional ties with feudalism and traditional capitalism has been selectively ignored. In his famous book (History of Thirty Years), Bijan Jazani, a founder of Marxist-Leninist OIPFG, gave an overwhelmingly credit to Ayatollah Khomeini, as a "revolutionary" Mullah of "petite bourgeoisie". The 14 century-old Islamic laws, Sharia, under Khomeini's "Velayt-e-Faghih" (God's state which was described in Khomeini's book was amazingly ignored by the left from then on). Khomeini had these fascist, misogynist, and anti- socialist ideas before the 1979 revolution, but he was accepted and praised by a spectrum of the left as a symbol of struggle against the Shah. To conclude, Islam as a divisive or a monolithic factor was not taken by the left into consideration.
By contrast, religion has been used by colonial or key powers as a dam to discourage democracy and modernity. Although, to some extent in the Middle East and North Africa, Islamic movements were a factor of unity, but they were tolerated by colonialists to prevent democratic alternatives. The Islamist movements had no effective solutions for the objective problems. The state of economic dependence, with or without Islamic solutions, cannot be removed. There can always be commercial monopolies, supported by colonial powers. The only solution to guarantee economic independence is rapid development under a democratic and secular state--otherwise Islamic states like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, or Iran, economically remain (dependent) client states of foreign powers.
Colonial powers have respected and even propagated religion in Iran, as a means of conspiracy. Shiite Mullahs in Iran, like Christian missionaries in Africa, are known for being protégés of the British colonial administrators; they both have been preaching to bring people closer to God, but not closer to freedom and progress. Colonialism would keep their colonies the most undeveloped, the most illiterate, and superstitious. Such backward attitudes are at hand through religion. Plundering and looting of the colonies, without such social preconditions, could not be easily committed in the history of colonialism.
In the Islamic colonies, the missionary's role was in fact replaced by the Islamic Ulama, which could be adjusted better with the long-term colonial aims. The colonial officials did not intervene in matters pertaining to Islam or Islamic traditional practices. However, the separation of religion from the practical affairs of government and law was a colonists' wish. It was, in itself, interference in matters pertaining to Islam. In the case of Iran, it is believed that all through the 20th century, the British Empire had to deal with a number of influential clergy to mutually help each other's influence. The peak of this mutual help was the 1953 coup which was planned by US / UK against the Iranian PM, Dr. Mossadegh, who by nationalising the Iranian oil industry, was challenging the British oil interests in Iran. They utilised the most thuggish and reactionary Muslim elements of the "Bazaar" (traditional business, closed to the clergy), and the leading clergy to help the coup. Dr. Mossadegh is the only democratic PM of the Iranian recent history and because of this coup the US / UK reinstalled the Shah as a despot.
Even after the first successful Iranian constitutional revolution in Middle East history, Iran could not free itself from the influence of Mullahs. Soon, the written constitution that predicted power in an elective authority lost its sense. With the support of the Mullahs, the power remained as a divine gift in the hands of kings who were considered since the Safavids "representatives of Hidden Twelfth Imam, the Mahdi, on earth" and since his occultation, Mullahs were considered the only interpreters of the Imam.
Despite division of Iran into "spheres of interest" between England and Russia, Iran was not officially colonised, but the country lost a natural way of progress, democracy, secularism, and independence. As documented in F. William Engdahl's book A Century of War - Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order, Britain's interest in the Middle East was piqued when her leaders realised that oil would replace coal as the energy source of the future. At the turn of the century Britain had no first-hand access to oil and was dependant upon America, Russia or Mexico for her supplies. This was quickly understood as an unacceptable situation and through intrigues involving British spy Sidney Reilly and Australian geologist and engineer William Knox d'Arcy, Britain was able to secure drilling rights to Persian oil from Persian monarch Reza Khan. D'Arcy paid what amounted to $20,000 cash for rights to tap Persian oil until 1961, with a 16% royalty from all sales going to the Shah. The British company that Reilly persuaded d'Arcy to ally with then became known as the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, a forerunner of the mighty British Petroleum. To put an end to this plundering, Iranian oil was nationalised by the Iranian popular PM Dr. Mossadegh. Two years later in 1953, Mossadegh was overthrown by a US / British coup and, with the help of the leading clergy led by mighty Ayatollah Kashani-an influential Mullah, who had already sworn to let topple the democratically elected government of Mossadegh.
More than the institutions, like army, the civil service and the judiciary, which have systematically been set up in the colonies, British colonialism needed religion to better control the vast territories they had acquired during the nineteenth century. Sects and cults furthermore were created. Sectarian conflicts were incited. All these measures paved the way for keeping the state of economic dependence, event after their physical departure. An example of such a "decolonisation" is the independence of India in 1947, which turned into a division of the Indian subcontinent into two and then three countries based on religious conflicts. This finally gave birth to an Islamic state in Pakistan under President Ayub Khan at the end of 1960.
The establishment of communist states in the 20th century was for some Muslim activists like MEK (People's Mojahedin Organisation of Iran) a pole of anti-colonialism, a political alliance to bolster an anti-West, whereas for Shiite Mullahs (like Khomeini), "communism is the atheism" and hence was demonised as a "Kufr" (profanity). The emergence of Marxism was seen by Islamic movements, especially by the Iranian Mullahs, as an alien demon to fight and keep away from the mental and physical presence of Shiite society. Although Islamist political entities have Stalinist methods of organisation, they are more characterised by their anti-communist than anti-West. After all, the legacy of communism reminds them that the problem of atheist culture will be more dangerous than the western colonialism. Communism has always remained the main challenge to any Islamic political body in the favour of the colonial power of British Empire or US hegemony.
This anti-socialist character of Islamic movements in general and particularly that of Shiite Mullahs in Iran was the missing link, which could not connect a big spectrum of Iranian left with the reality. They fell into the Khomeini's tramp, what finally cost them thousands of lives besides a bad reputation.
Mind opening article.But in
Mind opening article.But in india books on iran indiacate islamic revolution as democratic and economic revolution.Islamists in india may have twisted the actuality.THe constituitonal and ideological obligation of india (as doctrined by builders constitution in its preamble)is to support democracy and human rights movements with all help including military support if the people of any nation request.Bagladesh was liberated by india as its freedom fighters and leaders requested for india's help.India unlike the west loves freedom and democracy as part of its culture but not eying on market.Unfortunately now india remaining mute on these international human rights policy and democracy.Only people of it have struggle for thier rights and democracy like Frecnh revolution and russian revolution.Liberal communism is far better than democracy fro economic devolopmen in my opinion.
I read in Nat Geo some months
I read in Nat Geo some months back, that Iranians want to be free from the shackle of arab influenced mullahs. Sad, but true, Iranians area high on Islamic drug sold by Mohamutt, they have forgotten how great once they were.
The whole education senario
The whole education senario in India is governed by Leftists since the begining of India's independece. Nehru's love for all things socialist is not a mystery. Hence to blame Islamists for twisting the truth might not be correct. While the Muslim clergy does influence the education system to some level, it would be unwise to think that they could subvert the truth.
The Socialist leftists have an extreme hatred for all things American and love anything that goes against westren, specifically America's interests. Last year when India and America were conducting joint Naval excercises in the coastal region of India, the communist parties raised a hue and cry over this issue. Even in the Nuclear agreement between India and America the Communists played a very negetive role.
The fact is that Providence makes strange strange bed partners. If we look at the Left's record in India, they have constantly proved that anything in India's favour goes against their interests. While they blame America for Iraq. They never blame Russia for Afghanistan, they never lift a finger over what China did and is still doing in Tibet. Its not unfair to say that the Communists in India are on someone elese payroll.
Look at the TV interviews of the Communists, most of their speech is rhetoric and false propaganda. They never give figures and facts. Do we see a similarity between the Commies and the Islamists here. There are plenty of similarities between them if we just scratch under the surface.
Now liberal Communism is something that I am not familiar with, do we have some countries practicing it. Even a country like China had to eat adopt the same consumeristic market inorder to flourish. Democracy is the only way to go forward. However that does not mean that we agandon all thought in the process. Democracy should also have checks and balances inorder that rogues donot crop up and ultimately work to destroy the democratic fabric.
iranian mullahs are child
iranian mullahs are child rapists and murderers just like their shit prophet Mo.
There is no distinction
There is no distinction between a communist (leftist) and an Islamist. On the surface there seems to be a great distinction. The communist does not believe in God/Allah; Islamists believe in Allah (the Pimp) . That is very superficial; if one looks just a little bit deeper, scratch just a little bit, one will be surprised; disbelief is as ignorant as belief.
Both have accepted something on faith, without any inquiry. Hence communism is an atheist religion. MoHamMadans have their Qu'rand communists have their Das Kapital. Those books are different, but the person who believes, the mindset that believes, is the same. Both have the same political agenda to rule over people, to enslave people.
Ibrahim, Have you ever
Ibrahim,
Have you ever thought what scenario will it be like once democracy is given a go in countries lke saudi arabia and eygpt? Take in mind that 99 percent of people in these countries are anti western and antiisrael! Imagine of muslim brotherhood taking control of eygpt!
Proud Christian I did'nt
Proud Christian
I did'nt quite understand your Question. There is a lot of difference between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Democracy will never flourish in Saudi Arabia, simply because it is against Islam. There are other countries like Syria which tried to have a democratic setup. However the democracy will work till the time things are going fine. In case of any crisis people will turn to Islam which is their only source of hope. This not unsual. Most theists do that. However the problem with Islam is that the state and the Chruch cannot be seperated. You can have country which is ruled by Christians or Jews or Hindus and yet the country will be liberal. The reason is simple. These groups dont look towards religion in matters of polity. Muslims look towards Islam for everything. Sharia is the divine law according to Muslims. Any thing else is secondary.
No Islamic nation can ever have a working democracy, look at history and you will know.
HalalApe, I know from
HalalApe,
I know from reading your posts you are staunch, hawkish atheist I am just suprised to read your comment above. Btw well thought. The fact is anything spiritual should never be allowed to to take ground in political arena. Politics are about human ideals, greed, intellectual shabbiness, emotional supremacy, and whatever to do with human beings. No wonder Jesus knew about this, give to God what is God's. That's how we can detect that Islam is completely wrong when it seeks political dominance or muhammad pretending he knows it all about humans and nature.
well said & u r right,
well said & u r right, ibrahim
You know Ibrahim I was just
You know Ibrahim I was just responding to your line "Democracy is the only way to go forward". I simply wanted to know of you understand that certainly there are quite some western countries, who ironically advocate democracy but in reality never wish democracy to hold foot in eygpt and saudi arabia. Why is US supporting undemocratic regimes like Saudi arabia?
Allah greased Mohammad's
Allah greased Mohammad's rectum 5 times a day before having anal sex with him LOL
Proud Christian The answer to
Proud Christian
The answer to your question is very simple. Its easier for America to do buisness with dictators in opil rich nations. Even if they are not oil rich still its preferacle for America and Europe to do buisness with them. The reason being that America only has to deal with one person who has all the power to take descisions. So If America wishes to do buisness with the Saudis its knows that it only needs to deal with Ibn Saud. Rest of the people are of no consequence. That is why Bush supported the Musharraf regime in Pakistan. Infact America has a long record of supporting dictators.
Not every thing is this world is Kosher or idealistic. In Democracies the rulers are answrable to the people. The same is not in the case of theocracies. So if some does not need to give answers for one's actions and has been deemed with all the authority and power, the other person knows that his deal will go through. However this spoon feeding has always backfired on the USA.
Ofcourse its hippocritical, still there is nothing we can do about it. USA is the most powerful nation in this world. Now you can either be its friend or you can be its foe. If the Saudis decide on enimity they dont have any1 to protect them from the likes of Osama and the Muslim brotherhood.
So you see, the deal works both ways, the Americans get to drill the out oil from the Arabs and the Arabs get protection and American support. Futhermore Saudi Arabia does not have to reply for its human rights track record bcos the most powerful country does not give as damn as long as it gets oil and diging projects.
Its crazy world man, and might is right in this world. Now China is also trying to follow the USA, however every nation has its limits. China fancies itself as the next superpower.
Inorder to futher its aim, China supplies Nukes to rougue nations in the MId east, N Korea, Pakistan, etc. Thus it keeps the Americans occupied in fighting while winning allies with these rogue nations which allow China to make good money out of supplying goods and third rate electronics. Even plastic prayer mats that you find in Saudi Arabia are exported from China. China is also one of the biggest exporters of Hala meat to various Islamic nations. Besides it gets to sell it low quality automobiles in these countries. As of now, China is the only country which is doing buisness with Mynmar and N. Korea.
China is doing all of this while its demolishing Mosques in the Xingua province which is a muslims majority district. Its treats the Muslims as third grade citizens and does not allow them to carry out their religious obligations, because it understand the nature of Islam. So you see the Chinese are also involved in double speak.
Buddy, there are things beyong our understanding, what goes on behing closed doors is something we will never know. We just have one option, to try our best while the power brokers play their games.
Proud Christian You for to
Proud Christian
You for to complete the verse for Halal Pork
Its " Give to God what's God's and give to caesar what's Caeser's"
I guess that's it. Its been a long time since I read the Bible so might have gone wrong.
proudChimp Says: "---No
proudChimp Says:
"---No wonder Jesus knew about this, give to God what is God’s. --" As if God is a pet of this Christian Chimp? LOL
Christianity has created a society of blind people, and they go on telling people that they don't need eyes; Jesus had eyes;what is the need for Christians to have eyes? All one has to do is to believe in Jesus; he will lead the way to paradise, you have simply to follow. One is not allowed to think, because thinking may take you astray. Thinking means sharpening your doubt, your intellect. And that is very dangerous for so-called religion or one can call Cult, like Islam and Christianity. These Cults want you dull, dead , somehow dragging; they want you without intelligence. But they are clever in finding good names; they call that " Faith".It is nothing but the suicide of one's intelligence.
So " proudchristian Chimp" stick to your pet God (Oops Dog) or stick the cross up your holly ass along with the old/new testicles. Ha Ha Ha
Halalpork, did a muslim man
Halalpork, did a muslim man wax your rectum with pork fat before inserting his penis into your rectum? LOL
HalalPork, what's wrong was
HalalPork, what's wrong was that to trigger those insults? I only replaced a much extreme "pork" with the more friendly "Ape" which for someone like you I did not expect those string of expletives! By the way why do you consider superior than apes?
Is it possible at all to
Is it possible at all to remain decent and make a convincing point on this message board?
Is it some thing to do with qrand?
see the problem is this.How does one, who does not believe in allah or the rapist mo, like a group of people with very low intelligence and hatred in the heart for those unbeleivers? I am unable to find a way out.May be unending compassion and kindness will help. This will be effective only for those intelligent enough to see the difference.But what off the stupid and unintelligent?
jenn Says: ""--did a muslim
jenn Says: ""--did a muslim man wax your rectum with pork fat before inserting his penis into your rectum?--""
You seems to be Too much obsessed with all kind of Rectums ;Christian , Muslim " etc. Don't tell me your Christian Father/s pooped you out through his/their dirty Christian Rectum/s Baby cretin Christian?? Christian Missionaries are famous for Sodomizing kids just like Pedo. Mo. Have a nice rectum trip with your father baby. Ha Ha Ha Don't forget to stick your old/new testicles up your dirty Rectum baby cretin Christian.
. jenn Says: '-Halalpork,
. jenn Says:
'-Halalpork, did a muslim man wax your rectum with pork fat before inserting his penis into your rectum? LOL-'
'-Allah greased Mohammad’s rectum 5 times a day before having anal sex with him LOL-'
Hi jenn; avoid this site if you have nothing else other then " Anal sex " to write about. Go to some Islamic or Christian site if you are looking for some perverted pleasure.
Even the Muslims ; who are supposed to be perverted are better than you. BTW Are you a Christian? I mean converted Christian?
No wonder the Cults like
No wonder the Cults like Islam and Christianity render a human being brainless zombie which is evident from the comments of fanatic Muslims like "reader" "ChampionOfIslam" and fanatic Christians like "Jenn" "freedomfighter67" etc.
yeah right, this is how we
yeah right, this is how we are going to fight Islam.
proudchristian Says ----I
proudchristian Says
----I only replaced a much extreme “pork” with the more friendly “Ape” which for someone like you I did not expect those string of expletives!---
Halalpork says;What is so extreme about the Pork ?
proudchristian Says
---By the way why do you consider superior than apes?----
Halalpork says; And why do you feel inferior than a Chimp ?
You are nice I am nice . You are nasty I have to be nasty; it's mutual isn't it?
Let's be nice to each other in the future.
Halalport786, you're pretty
Halalport786, you're pretty well confused, aren't you boy? The God of the Christians and the Jews isn't Satan/Allah. You suppose you have never heard of the Ten Commanments, have you? The God of the Ten commandments teaches Christians and Jews that: "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not commit adultery." "Thou shalt not steal." "Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife." "Honor your father and mother." "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor."
On the other hand, Satan/Allah teaches: "Infidels are your sworn enemies,"(Sura 4 Verse 101). "Make war on the infidels around you,"(Sura 9 Verse 123 and Sura 66 Verse 9). "Be ruthless to the infidels,"(Sura 48 Verse 29) "Fight those who believe not Alla nor the Last Day,"(Sura 47 Verse 4). "Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends,"(Sura 5 Verse61 and Sura 60 Verse 60). "Never be a helper to the disbliever,"(Sura 28 Verse 26). "Kill the disbeliever wherever you find them,"(Sura 2 Verse 191). And many more such violent passages. Do you now see the difference little boy?
Now tell me Pork 786, why do you admire atheistic Communism and atheistic Nazism?
Socratese, you don't know
Socratese, you don't know Americans do you? Did you not know that millions of American have died for our freedoms? Yes, freedoms like "Freedom of the Press." "Freedom of religion," Freeddom of assembly," Free of speech." We don't love freedoms? Are you loco?
Let me tell you something buddy old boy, at this very moment we have standing civilian armies ready in case evil Muslims get cute. Let me tell you something else, some of these armies decided to use hollow pointed ammunition filled with little tiny pieces of pig meat. We'll make damn sure that evil Muslim don't get any of those 72 virgins if they die with little pieces of pig meat in their bodies. And if the Muslims are queers, they will not get any of those 28 prepubscent boys with pearly eyes and all that other Muslim cow shit. Next time read history before you contact us again. Okay?
. Philip Saenz Says: "--Now
. Philip Saenz Says:
"--Now tell me Pork 786, why do you admire atheistic Communism and atheistic Nazism?--""
Reverend Holly Father Philip Saenz ; Your English language skill sounds pretty sound; problem is your eyesight, may I suggest your holiness pay a visit to the nearest optician to get your eyes fixed.
You holly sh!t read my comment from the beginning to the end before commenting ( Where the Fffk did you find I admired atheistic Communism and atheistic Nazism? ) You fanatic cretin Christian.
Lets cool it folks Philip, it
Lets cool it folks
Philip, it won't help talikng with Mr. Halal Pork. Eating pork can be delicious, but not talking to Mr. Pork
Brother Porky, Please keep a civil language. Thank you
Letts all try to get along in a civil way brothers and sisters.
Pssst, hey you atheists out
Pssst, hey you atheists out there. We Christians don't mind if you think you created yourselves. We Christians laugh but that's about all. Don't worry, we're harmless unless attacked. And we don't mind if you atheists think that matter is eternal. It doesn't make sense, but we Christians don't mind if you atheists think that way. May the Cause of all causes bless you, even if you're an atheist.
Mr. Ibn Kammuna, I'll think
Mr. Ibn Kammuna, I'll think of your advice. However, let's have fun with those crazies. I don't think these crazies are too violent. But if they are, we'll take care of them in quick order. May God bless you Ibn. I'm glad you don't think matter is eternal or that you created yourself. But like I said, let's have fun with these little children.
Ibrahim wrote: "Its ” Give
Ibrahim wrote:
"Its ” Give to God what’s God’s and give to caesar what’s Caeser’s”
I guess that’s it. Its been a long time since I read the Bible so might have gone wrong."
You are absolutely correct.
Ibn Kammuna wrote:
"Brother Porky, Please keep a civil language. Thank you"
I believe foul language is the only language he understands.
Excellent article.
Dutch Court orders that Geert
Dutch Court orders that Geert Wilders Must be tried for his views.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=757EF675-E73E-43D3-9698-...
Islamic cleric says it is ok
Islamic cleric says it is ok to hit your wife.
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/01/21/australia-its-ok-to-hit-your-wife-say...
Who is Allah? Read this
Who is Allah? Read this excellent article from Soeren Kern on Winds of Jihad.
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/01/21/who-is-allah-2/
Muslims threaten Europeans if
Muslims threaten Europeans if they don't support the Palestinians.
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/01/21/pals-threaten-euros-with-terror-over-...
Philip Sanez wrote: Pssst,
Philip Sanez wrote:
Pssst, hey you atheists out there. We Christians don’t mind if you think you created yourselves. We Christians laugh but that’s about all.
Philip, the Theory of Evolution consists of two parts, Macro and Micro. As far as the Macro par is concerened there is not ambiguity there. It has been proved far beyond doubt that Humans did evolve from a sigle cellular microrganism. The micro part is still being worked on by very clever people. So the laugh is on you Philip, cos you are no better than a Muslim who belives that the earth was made 5000 years back.
As for you Christians laughing it off, wait a sec. HAs.nt the Catholic Chruch accepted the theory of evolution?
Ah! if only people were educated beyong grade school!
Philip Sanez Yo spoke about
Philip Sanez
Yo spoke about the ten Commandements. Isnt the breaking the any one of the Commandements make on liable to a death penalty.
Show me one century when Christians have'nt broken the ten commandements. On one hand you claim that your tells you not to kill and on the other hand you say that your guns are tranied at the Muslims with Pork pellets. Sounds a bit hippocritical does'nt it.
Philip Sanez wrote And we
Philip Sanez wrote
And we don’t mind if you atheists think that matter is eternal. It doesn’t make sense, but we Christians don’t mind if you atheists think that way.
Ofcourse it wont make sense to you Philip cos your only education is from the Sunday classes you went to as a kid. If you would have ever made it to a University you would not have been laughing on your beliefs right now.
Philip Sanez, we dont give a
Philip Sanez, we dont give a dammn to what you believe in and frankly this is not a Christian Missionary site. IF you want to tell others how great your God is perhaps you should opt for other forums. There are others other Christians here besides you, They dont go around giving sermons like you do. So learn to be tolerant of others beliefs and not call them evil before you expect them to be tolerant of yours.
Ah! I forgot you are a Catholic, the same Catholics who wanted to kill Coppernicus, do you remeber La Purga , Philip Sanez. Or are all the scientists the enemies of God according to you.
As far as the deal is concerned, Hala pork never started the shit. It was Proud Christian who started by calling him Hala Ape. Then your Christian sister Jenn, started with her profanities. But you will never ask them to shuttup, cos you are not allowed to criticise Christians.
Hippocrites.
Ahh the sunday classes of the
Ahh the sunday classes of the father! All the children cry and play along with the father.Sounds typical sunday class to me, behind the closed doors of the fathers room
Came across this site
Came across this site inspired by Ali Sina:
http://jahannum.wordpress.com
Let the will of the SILENT MAJORITY work. In spite of what is happening with dhimmi governments across Europe (Holland) and North America (Canada).
"Socratese, you don’t know
"Socratese, you don’t know Americans do you? Did you not know that millions of American have died for our freedoms? Yes, freedoms like “Freedom of the Press.” “Freedom of religion,” Freeddom of assembly,” Free of speech.” We don’t love freedoms? Are you loco?"
Whose's freedoms have these Americans died for, Philip Sanez? Not mine, maybe yours. The very Americans supported various Dictatorial regimes all around the world till they began bothering them. Everything was okay till 9/11, and suddenly America discovered Osama Bin Laden and his gang of thugs. lol. Americans fought for their own freedoms, for their own interests. Philip, I really dont know which part of the world you are from, but definately America has played no part in the Freedom for my part of the world.
What do you mean by "loco" by the way, is that a Spanish word? I am sure he is if you are...
dear ibrahim, U appear
dear ibrahim,
U appear more level headed in this forum.I want u to answer my question.I am an hindu.I say my prayers once or twice a day.once in a while i visit temples.I have never read the Bhagavad gita.whenever i come across any mosque,church or gurudwara i bow my head.I noticed that friends & people from other communities do not reciprocate,hence i have stopped this practice of bowing in respect.I feel bad that i am becoming an hindu radical.My question is are they any verses in the bhagavad gita which extorts the readers to kill or kill in the name of god.My other question is are they any inbuilt mechanism to prevent hindus from becoming radicals.I am aware my second question is more difficult to reply.
Well Krishna as far as your
Well Krishna as far as your religious beliefs are concerned, I am no1 to tell you what you should be doing. If you want to bow your head infront of someone else's place of worship its your choice. You dont , however, become a fanatic by not choosing to pray to some one else's god or gods. If others dont care for your Gods, there is no need for your to reciprocate the same. That is what I would have had I been in your place.
As far as the Gita is concerend, I ve never read it. I am not the right person to ask such a question. It would be best if you pick up a gita urself and start reading it. Maybe you will find the answer to your question.
Now are there inbuilt mechanisms to prevent Hindus from becoming fanatics. The answer is yes, Hindu or Vedic philosophy is based on the search for knowelge which Vedic philosophy believes to be the path to enlightenment and salvation. There are absolutely no dogmas and very few set of rules. Its difficult for people to become fanatics when they dont live by the same codes and dogmas. How many Hindus have you heard slaughtering Muslims? Even during the various wars that Hindus and the Muslims fought, there was never by any chance an extreme step taken by a Hindu on a Muslim. However times are changing, Hindus are becoming fanatical by the day. The atittute of Hindus is changing by the day, Hindus are not as tolerant as they used to be say even 10 years back.
You dont , however, become a
You dont , however, become a fanatic by not choosing to pray to some one else’s god or gods.
Th word was you donot become a fanatic by not choosing to pray to some one else's god or gods. Sorry that was a typo.
dear ibrahim and krishna: it
dear ibrahim and krishna:
it is always nice to have decent discussion rather than spreading hatred in such neutral forums. regarding the question of krishna and answer of ibrahim, i fell i am duty bound to answer. There is no such thing called radicalism in hindu. if at it exists, it is only to revolutionise the hindu religion itself and not for or against any other system or religion. ibrahim was right in one sense that hindus are losing their tolerance but that is not becasue of the hatred towards particular religion but because of the treatment by political parties who are offensive against hindus to please the minorities like christians and muslims for vote bank politics. noted athesists in india can be seen with religious leaders of christians and muslims in podium which is used to pass derrogatory remarks on hindu relegion and hence such hatred is now creeping up. as krishna said any cool headed hindu bows his head when he crosses a church or a mosque even if he doesnt, would'nt talk ill of other relegion.
regarding the bhagavat gita, there is no sloka that preaches hatred and massacre in the name of relegion. may be it is because there was no other relegion during the period of kurukshetra and only there were two cults believers and non believers in god and both lived in harmony only and there is no evidence of fight to impose one's thought in to someone else. practically, in my opinion, god would have loved us had we been athiests and still lived in harmony and humanly. people like gandhi, mother terasa, martin luther king are being respected not for their relegious attachments but for the services rendered to humanity. krishna if you are a tamil get the books of Kanchi Paramacharya's "voice of god" and read it. it will throw lot of light on on religions and how human should live in peace and harmony even in diversity.
This website has been
This website has been brilliantly refuted by the excellent website of Osama Abdullah known as answering-christianity dot com. It's a brilliant site which I am busy studying in detail right now and has a wealth wealth wealth of information which totally refutes the content here.
Allah is the Greatest
Thank u ibrahim & RB.
Thank u ibrahim & RB.
RB,i am an kannadiga,but comfortable in english.I read some commentaries of SWAMI VIVEKANANDA,that man is amazing,far ahead of our times.He never spoke ill of the basics of any religion,yet i read in some book where he is branded a hindu radical.is it so???i never felt it.could u throw some light on it. Also i have a question for everyone---Why cannot the United nations freeze conversions all over the world from this date or this year.Freedom of speech is ok & a must.Freedom of religion is the bane of humanity.it is causing insecurity & anxiety all over the world.Freedom to have children should be restricted to 2..This is to avoid demographic shift in regions & nations to avoid future conflicts.Freedom of speech should take care of any shortcomings regarding the other 2 freedoms.All nations should be signatories to this UN declaration.
eternal muslim.Thanks for the
eternal muslim.Thanks for the information & ur feelings.take care.
Ibrahim Says: ""--As far as
Ibrahim Says:
""--As far as the deal is concerned, Halal pork never started the shit. It was Proud Christian who started by calling him Halal Ape. Then your Christian sister Jenn, started with her profanities. But you will never ask them to shuttup,--""
Dear Ibrahim ; I could not have behaved more level headed as you have behaved. Thanks pal.
I feel pity for " Ibn Kammuna " whose articles on this site are brilliant but he is just an Intellectual, a Converted Christian and has no intelligence. Intellectuality is borrowed knowledge( best example Jerk off Zakir Naik) Intelligence is hard earned experience of life, of existence, of love ,of inner peace, eternal peace .
" Ibn Kammuna " ends his comments with " peace brother" but has never experienced peace (in the real sense) so far. Pity brother.
Eterna muslim. Hey Eterna,
Eterna muslim.
Hey Eterna, how the heck do you think any mullah can explain the presence of mercy in raping a war captive? how is it ok to beat one's wife, how is it ok to give a woman half of what her bros get of the inheritence?
No mullah could do that, what they always do is regurgitate what they have been told as children, that is have faith even in the face of a blatant lie and a serious crime to humanity, your god said he/she/it is perfect, but he told serious historical and scientific imperfect stories in your holy book , just browse this site for plenty of that imperfection, you believe a child explanation, yes, the mullas are holding on to the childhood indoctrination, they never use their grown up brain, same with the christian bishops and their followers.
Halalpok. Man, I have the
Halalpok.
Man, I have the same feelings for Ibn Kammuna, I can't imagine a guy like himself being trapped in the maze of this religion thing, for example, he points out the killing verses of the Quran, but stiil neglects the same thing in his new religion, maybe he thinks the OT is no longer applicable too, but how do christians resolve this:
I've noticed many Christians justify their beliefs with the Old Testament, like being against homosexuality because of Leviticus, but when asked why other Leviticus abominations are ok (like eating pork) the answer is commonly "Old Testament law no longer applies"
So who decides which OT laws are valid and which ones aren't?
As far as I know, Jesus did not specify, "Mixed fabrics are OK, but no more slaves" So who decided which of God's OT laws still apply and which ones don't count anymore?
Examples: Leviticus: Being gay...still wrong. Eating pork, getting haircuts, wearing mixed fabrics are now OK. Who announced these things were now ok?
Exodus: Murder, Stealing, Theft...still wrong. Slavery, Trivial Executions, Polygamy...they were fine but now they're not.
BD ( who is sure the god of the OT and NT has dual personality disorder)