Koran only Islam II: Pray to Sina!!

This is so funny! I love it! Please post lots of emails like this. I love entertainment after a long day, makes me feel better about a lot of stupid things I said....when i was a child.

I hear the birds chirping in the morning but I never knew they were giving salat. I have not seen them performing ablution or the other rituals like iqamah,rokood, sojood, or putting their right wing over their left wing, etc. Is their salat valid?

The Quran-only-Muslima said:
"You offer much criticism but ZERO alternatives.”

From her viewpoint I can understand this a bit. In my own life the concern about the afterlife was very strong. I first tried Christianity, then New Age, with books like "The Celestine Prophecy". There you have belief of reincarnation, and I almost HAD to believe in that, otherwise this puny life, which is so imperfect, with so many blocks, on itself, would never be enough, not by a long-shot. I needed some sort of assurance of eternal life, I guess. But now I try to be satisfied with simple searching for the truth in a scientific way and see myself not as an ego alone, but as part of humanity. And humanity has a much bigger life-span than an ego. But I see it is so hard to be asked to let go of your after-life-guarantee. But for some it is possible to seek this after-life-guarantee in Christianity instead of in Islam, but it is hard for a person to become a Darwinist, as I experienced myself.

Many seem to take Pascal's Wager, my own brother, a Christian, mentioned it, and LondonSpirit, a Muslim, has said something mighty similar. "If I choose to believe in God/ Allah and in afterlife it is not true, then I loose nothing, but if I do not believe in God/ Allah and then in afterlife it turns out to be true, then I have lost immeasurably, for all time".

But the scientific answer to that now is, that the chance that Islam is shown to be true in afterlife, really now is very low. Given all the analysis of the Quran and Hadith, all the imperfections. It really would be an unreasonable God who gives this kind of Message, then stops, while at the same time blessing humans with extraordinary brains, which investigate everything, can argue logically. Inquisitive, thinking humans are now being left with massive reasonable doubt and frankly deeply fundamented unbelief. And THEN they should be condemned in afterlife for not believing such an imperfect, incomplete, ambiguous message? We think people should be rewarded for that and punished for uncritically believing the current message of Islam.

And I like to add, that indeed, very natural, FFI does seem to encourage people to LOSE something. Not GAIN something. I know the gain is implicit, but it is so hard to tell it explicit. But in my view apostates from islam can gain so much and society can gain so much by their apostacy. And Apostasy again signifies something that they lose. But they can KEEP all the good things of Islam and AUGMENT that with other good things, both for them personally and for their loved ones, children, the society. The very term apostate should be replaced by a positive term, although I do not know now which one.

I am going to withdraw what I stated earlier about this women.

She is no devout Muslim. Because I do not associte godfearing people with arrogance, selective ahererence, lack of common sense and certainly the whole "I am better than you" attitude.

"It is clear you are a non-believer and I doubt if you have ever been a Muslim. "

The same could be said of this woman. Majority if not all of traditional sunni as well as shia muslims will have no problems rejecting you as a Muslim seeing as you reject hadith and through they believe you reject Muhammad and through that God. I challange you to venture into your local mosque and openly tell them that you reject hadith and believe only in the Quran. You will be labelled a kafir and apostate and everything inbetween in a flash.

Humility is appaerently just hearsay. No real or actual value.

I loved this hilarious quote from this Quranist Muslima:
“Next time you are up at sunrise or right before sunset notice the Direction the birds are facing while they are chirping (making salat).”

So now Allah is also the sun god? Why are the birds not facing Mecca instead of the sun? Also does the chirping of these birds also not offend your Allah as he hates singing? These birds can't be real Muslims.

Oh non-existent Allah, protect me from foolish Muslims and Muslimas!

Lady,
birds face east because the sun rises from the east. It is not because of Mecca. Birds in Iran look east too! Is their a Ka'ba in India or China also?
Peace

Actually this lady's reasoning is very poor. Didn't she say on the previous letter that she is a western convert to Islam? See what kind of people convert to Islam!

By reading this, although I'm a Christian, I'm inclined to agree with Dawkins that for the sake of better society at large, the parents shouldn't indoctrinate children with religiousity. That children should not be identified with the name of religion of their parents. Yes, IDawkins states that because of his personal distaste of religion but there is some truth and I'm willing to concede this because of Islam.

Islam destroys children. It destroys children ability to freely think about worldviews, it threatens them with all the Islam horror stories about death and hell fire, often by beating them hard at home and in madrassahs and at the end you get products like this lady, kabirlaw and londonspirit. What a pathetic cult!

Whats the point of this logicless,pointless lamenting?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\instead of Quraan we will read all Ali Sina’s books\

\we will abandon religion altogether and follow our own lust\

\You’re so cocky stop your own death. Better yet, kill yourself and prove that there is no god and come back with pictures or some kind of proof.\

\As arrogant as you have proven man to be, why give credit to someone other than yourself?\

\You are spreading your jargon of hate ....\

\The devil has succeeded with you\

\Unfortunatly Satan was right, you are a prime example.\

\Find someone you can mesmerize with you hypocrisy\

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are a follower of Islam and look at yourself.You
are shivering with Anger and hate.Why ???? Is this what
people who claim to follow the \Religion of peace\ turn into when questioned about ISLAM??

It didnt take long for you to ignite yourself and now you are
dripping of hate filled venom ? Amazing ..(though not really)

Just relax and think about it ....people on this forum question ISLAM,the violence,the
hatred,the injustice associated with it...We know you are not personally responsible
for all this but ISLAM is.We hate the ideology not the people following it.

Her lamenting and cursing signifies the typical brainwashed MUSLIM mindset... Do we have to say more????

While one cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, one can easily disprove that Allah is not the God and if there is a God and people do not follow him but Allah, then what will happen to these followers of Allah? Allah shows all the signs of a satan and if that be the case, what will this muslimah do?
In allah's cause, this muslimah will be the tilth for muslim men and she can share her husband with other women, she will take the beatings from her husband as a divine reward for her service to her man.

fasttik

September 14, 2009 • 7:50 pm
arRe SAN when the death comes near to you then you will realize no IDOLS.. THAT THREE CRORES PLUS IDOLS NO ONE COMES TO SAVE AND NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU BREATH AND LIFE, BUT ONLY ONE GOD IF HE WISHES.. BUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU WILL FELL IN DREADFUL HELL.. WHEN YOU WILL DWELLING FOREVER.. IT IS NOT THE JOKE.. STILL YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THE WORLD WHO IS BEHIND.. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EACH THING IN AROUND YOU.. IF YOU HAVE BRAIN. honestly you tell me what is your puranas says about the EARTH AND SKY.. YOU GO AND CHECK THE GLOBE AND WHETHER SNAKE (AADISEH IS CARRYING THIS EARTH??? THEN WHY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OTHER RELIGION.. CORRECT YOUR RELIGION.. THEN YOU SHOULD COMMENT… YOU WORSHIP TO THE COWDUNG AND YOU WORSHIP TO HUMAN ORGAN… IS NOT THE FOOLISH WHAT YOU DO? ASK YOUR OWN MIND..
another set of FOOLS ON THIS EARTH ARE CHEATING THE WHOLE CHRISTIANS INTO DARKNESS, I AM TELLING ABOUT THIS FOREMOST CHRISTIANS THIS CHRIMINALS WANTS TO RE-WRITTEN THEIR BOOK WHICH WAS NOT THE PART OF HOLY BOOK WHAT ACTUALLY WAS REVEILED AT JESUS (PEACE BE UPON HIM), THIS IS VERY SHAME OF THIS FOOLS, THEY ARE LIEING ON JESUS(PEACE BE UPON HIM) FOR THEIR SWINE FOOD, ALCOHOL, SEXUALLY ABUSING THEIR WOMEN, THESE IDIOS SAYS THAT THEY ARE RESPECTING THE WOMEN, BEFORE THEIR MARRIAGE THEY ARE LOOTING AND DECEIVING THEM AND HAVING SEX AND IS ILLEGAL, IF THIS IDIOTS ARE TRUE CHRISTIAN THEY SHOULD CONSUME POISON TO BE PROOVE THEY ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS, IN FACT JESUS(PEACE BE UPON HIM) THE WAY WE RESPECT THEY WONT 1% OF IT, WHAT WE RESPECT. WHY WILL GOD KILLS HIS OWN SON… THEY HAVE TO THINK LOGICALLY THAT THE CREATOR(GOD) WILL NEVER TAKE A FORM OF ANYTHING MEANS.. NEITHER HE HAS SONS NOR HE HAS PARENTS.. GOD IS ONE.. AND HE IS ALONE. EVERYTHING WILL BE DESTROYED ON THESE WORLDS EXECPT THE GOD.(ALLAH). IF THESE FOOLS ARE TRUE MUSLIMS IF THEY ATLEAST BELIEVE THEIR BOOKS, THEN SHOULD RE CALL FROM THEIR BIBLE THAT THERE IS A NAME USED “ALLA”, MEANS RESURRECTION” THE CREATOR AND DESTROYER.

fasttik

September 14, 2009 • 8:05 pm
ALL THESE FOOLS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING BORN AS A MUSLIM, BECAUSE ALL WERE CREATED BY ONE GOD THAT IS ALLAH ONLY.. EVERY HUMAN BEINGS ARE the CHILDREN OF ADAM & EVE, means born from one single father and mother….. THIS CHRISTIANS IF THEY ARE TRUE, THEY SHOULD BELIEVE IT. WHEN YOU BORN ie.. you are a muslim, when you grow bigger to a age day by day, you are going closest companian of the satan.. they turn to be a non-muslims and closely live the way of SATAN and becomes satanic friends.. ALL THESE FOOLS HAVE REALIZE THAT EVERYHUMAN BEING IS ONE DAY WILL DIE AND NO MAN OR WOMAN IS GOING TO BE LIVE ON THIS EARTH PERMANENTLY.. BY THIS ONE SHOULD REALIZE THAT OVER THIS SCENE SOME ONE ELSE IS BEHIND IT WHAT IS HAPPENING EVERYDAY.. AND DAY BY DAY.. THAT IS ONE SUPER POWER OF ALL THESE WORLDS AND THAT SUPER POWER IS ALLAH(SWT). ONLY ONE GOD.

FRONT SINA

September 14, 2009 • 8:22 pm
These Idiots you are very jealous people.. that is why you are using
whether it is TOM or DOM.. POMA..no one can stop.. Insha Allah, they will see their own childrens will one day revert back to Islam the way to their God who created all these worlds.. These brainless fools have to understand that their forefathers whether jews or christians only reverted to Islam at begining. Some have accepted and some have not accepted.. This has been from the long ago until now happening.. after JESUS(peace be upon him) and the last and final messenger was MOHAMMED(peace be upon him). Islam is a true religion, people who really thinks and logically understands the truth only can accept this religion.. By this foolish people words no truth will become false.. It is true that when see way back to history, In Islam they fought for the truth and in-fact lot of archialogical, mathmatical and transportation and laws were formed in this world thru Quran. Every time God was sending each messenger (peace upon on them) and revelation was sent to teach people.. But some foolish people formed their own principles and own laws where there is no justice. I have learned something about all the religion but there is no holy book like Quran and religion like Islam.

arr VIVEK.. if you are a true HINDU.. if you have read the history.. honestly you have to tell, thru out the rulings of muslims rulers in INDIA or subcontinent, they have treated hindus in good manner, there is not single remark if ever they had put hindus into problems, oh.. IDIOT... you have to understand that people have reverted to Islam not by war.. because of the beautiful teachings and the systems were taught from Quran, such as TRUTH, LAWS, TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS, LOAN SYSTEM(BUT NOT TODAY'S SYTEM WHERE YOU EAT COMMAN MAN BANKING SYSTEM), THERE ARE MANY THINGS WHICH ARE TRUELY INFLUENCED.. NOW YOU CHECK OUT IN WESTERN COUNTRIES LIKE EUROPE IN FRANCE, GERMANY, HOLLAND, UK, SPAIN, BELGILIUM THE FAST GROWING RELIGION IS ISALM.. WHY YOU DO YOU KNOW THAT IDIOTS...???? NO BODY IS FORCING THEM JUST WHO HAS REVERTED BACK TO ISLAM.. ... just imagine what would have happen IF THERE IS NO RELIGION LIKE ISLAM .. WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPEN IN OTHER RELIGIONS.. ONE EXAMPLE I WILL TELL YOU.. SO MUCH YOU IDIOTS ARE TALKING ABOUT.. ONE THING I WILL REMIND YOU.. WHEN HUSBAND DIES IN HIDUISM.. YOU WERE KILLING THE WIFE IN FIRE.. (WOMEN).. COWARDLY THINGS YOU WERE DOING.. HONESTLY YOU IDIOTS TELL THAT DON'T YOU PUTTING OTHER PEOPLE INTO PROBLEMS NOW.. MOST OF THE IDIOTS THEY SAY THAT ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY SWORD.. NO FOOLS CAN UNDERSTAND THIS LOGIC.. THE SWORD WAS TOOK CONQUER THE DINAYSTIS(KINGDOMS).. THIS WAS A JUSTICE AND AS A RULE AND PRACTICE IN THOSE DAYS IN WAR TIMES.. THIS WAS ANY KING THAT TIME THEY USE TO GO FOR WAR..

IDIOTSS.....IDIOTS.. FOOOOOOOOOLLLS....... BEFORE YOU CAN COMMENT ANY RELIGION YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN RELIGION.. 99.99% IS LOOPWHOLES IN YOUR HINDUISM, CHRISTIANITY OR BUDISM, JUDAISM OR ANY RELIGION OTHER THAN ISLAM.. .......... ISLAM IS A TRUE RELIGION.. IS SPRREADING THE WHOLE WORLD.. JUST ASK WHO HAS REVERTED BACK TO ISLAM YOU WILL KNOW WHAT MAKES THEM TO GET INTO ISLAM.. YOU WILL ATLEAST SOME THING.. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.. BUT I AM SURE NOT YOU BUT YOUR CHILDREN.WILL ONE DAY IF NOT YOURS BUT YOUR GRAND CHILDREN WILL TURN TOWARDS THE TRUTH.. THAT IS ISLAM..
WE DONT JUDGE BASED UPON THE ACT OF THE BASELESS MUSLIMS WHO CLAIMS BUT THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS.. WE JUDGE BASED ON THE QURAN AND HADITH.. WHICH IS A TRUTH..

fasttik

Allah to gaya tel lene !!!

MohamMAD (sh8t be upon him) ajkal jahannum me toilet ki safai karta hai, jab wo kam thik se nahi karta to sare muslim jo ab truth jaan gaye hain, usko laat marte hain!

From email: " you would have seen the crescent moon and the star in the sky during this holy month of Ramadan."
Not as it is in Islamic symbols however. Here the star is partially/totally INSIDE the (mostly dark) disc of the moon - a celestial impossibility! In any case this (impossible) moon-star symbol pre-dates Islam. It is actually the symbol of the Moon-God (Hubal? is it, he who's daughters gave rise to the "Satanic verses" [not] in the Koran).

ProudChristian: totally agree. In this case the sort who has converted to Islam is semi-literate!
BTW: did you know that Dawkins approves of the "christian heritage" of the UK? He said this on "The Big Question" on BBC a month or two ago.

Fastikk: why are you SHOUTING AT US ALL THE TIME?!!
we are not DEAF.
I'd like to think that there is something worthwhile in your post, but I can't find it (I have problems reading lots of caps).
The Moslem argument "Everybody is born Muslim" is just another attempt at 'one-upmanship'. Don't get me wrong: I understand the apologetic argument quite well and from any 'Deist' point of view there may be a grain of truth in it. Most children believe in something they call "god", but I don't think belief in Mohammed comes naturally. For instance: I don't think that there is any evidence that a child brought up without any mention of Mohammed suddenly starts doing Namaz, Ramadan fast etc.
Perhaps it is children who believe in the true "Islam" and what Mo preached was false?

Ibn Kammuna , if the Brids have become disobedient ( They are not facing Mecca - filthiest place) , they should be beheaded .( Or stoned to death) .

Dear editors,
You should have written to that lady in the first instance itself the truth which is " allah is NOT the God of the Bible, he ( allah) is the devil himself who wants to impersonate the God of the Bible. You should have kicked this truth into her.

just read today how a 12 year old yemeni girl and her baby died during labor...can this muslima or fastik tell me what she and her baby will get in afterlife??? and what about the old man who impregnated her? what will happen to him in afterlife?

Me too I loved the Birds chirping, making Salah. I think I won't stop laughing 'till Tomorrow morning, when I will have to stop in order to listen to and observe the little Muslimin seemingly chirping but actually reciting Qouran .... Well, not I have a Question: what about the Cock? Does it perform its "Salah", too, while awakening People? [Must go to the Land and hiding myself, in Order not to be seen by the Cock, and then carefully watch what it "say" and what it "does" - hopefully it won't be making "Love" to a Hen while I'm spying. It will be most embarassing -]. Please, don't break my Dreams, tell me that it's facing Mecca while it's singing, not that it faces the Suuun! ....

Demsci, your two posts above hit the nail squarely on the head. It is the same experience that I have had and the same doubts, except you expressed them far better than I could.

Thanks for your posts they were great.

Battle Front : ISLAM .............no not Muslims ...but ISLAM ......enough is enough .......

what ISLAM will teach JEWS or HINDUS ......or even Christians ....we ...all ...we all ....predate ISLAM .........

Let ME say .............JESUS ...........was an epitome ..of love ......as an Hindu ..i identify with Jesus ..the person ..........i can identify with Buddha ...the person .....and RAM .........the person .........

Can i say the same of Muhammed ...........NEVER .....EVER and EVER ............and ......have you heard ..JESUS ...BUDDHA or RAM .......talking of JEHAD ...........no never .............

ISLAM is not peace......but pieces ......ISLAM is not love ..but hatred .....what pains me ..is
that humans ...intoxicated by ISLAM are continuing in an carnage ..in an regime .which
want blood ...............Why doesnt ....ISLAM ....have a Gandhi ..or a MARTIN LUTHER KING ????

IF ISLAM's best ..proposal is MUHAMMED .......then .......i am sorry ..cant accept it ..even if
Muhammed was my father .........just cant ..........just cant accept such evil ....not in my nature ......sorry

The constant and insisting denial of many muslims never ceases to amaze me. Just negating everything with the standard robot-like reply "you are all wrong and you havent studied islam and you just hate bla bla bla" appearently constitutes constructive debate for some.

The curx of everything is really simple - if you do not reach the same rosy red fabricated conclusion about Islam as most muslims, then you must of course be wrong. The prospect that there is something wrong with islam or/and its interpretation and the teachings conveyed by the beloved and infallible imams, muftis, mullahs, scholars, theologists and co. is too scary to imagine.

But imagine, that some of the critics are not wrong. Imagine that the apostates have valid and solid reasons. Imagine that not everybody hates or fears Islam, but have a problem with the daily breaches of human rights around the world be that in a wahabi mosque down in Jeddah, or a local mosque in the heart of Toronto. Preaching lashes and lashing somebody is one and the same thing.

Imagine and perhaps we can all look forward to a better world where we do not persecute or kill those who live, act and think differently (homosexuals, jews, apostates, fornicators, rape victims, women, criticis, controversial authors, artists, mucisians, reporters etc). Imagine. But even that is simple too hard for some to grapple with. Instead they shout hate and intolerance to [insert irony] - alleged intolerance.

You people well never accept that islam is a religion let alone it being the right religion. This editor is a bit of a dumb ass. I will explain why.

EDITOR WROTE: Ali is correct in his accusations to Muhammad in the “Challenge”. When someone is right, the honorable thing to do is to say “Yes he is right”.

ANSWER: He is not right, and he will never be. All his accusations have been answered to in a systematic way. He choses not to believe in the re-buttals and he doesnt even wish to rebuttal the answers that is given to him. And if he was truly a man of his words he would post the re-buttals on here so that people could see the great answers that are being given to his lies. But he wouldnt do that an nor will the people on here accept the answers, because there mind has already been infiltrated to the lies and deception of islam. 90% of the people on here have no prior knowledge of islam apart from what they see and hear.

If Ali sina was a man he would have a debate with a scholar of islam, none of these men who just wish to have arguments with neutral judges that would decide on which party is speaking sense and which one is speaking a pack of lies. And that way if he was wrong he would depart from his $50,000. But he wouldnt do this and he would never accept anyone else correct due to the fact that his pocket will split open and release his funds.

EDITOR WROTE: The Rifqa Bary story is one example of that. She left Islam in favor of a God of love and forgiveness. We, at FFI do not see anything wrong with leaving Islam and believing in a different religion. Our main concern is to make people see how Evil Islam is.

ANSWER: The people of the west is known to have he most open minds. And are generally for concerned with devilish acts against humanity. This is a known fact. We know this to be true. We also know it to be true that islam is the fastest growing relgion not only in the world but in the west. It has the highest number of converts with the number risingly sharply after 9/11. And it is considered that 2/3 of converts are woman. now if Islam was such an evil religion why would the west accept islam, knowing that they are more against barbarism. Consider it editor. Your not making anyone convert away from islam, apart from 2 kinds of people.
1. the people who have no understanding or little understanding of islam and hence fall for your trap
2. Or the educated ones that think they cant follow islam because it teaches some things that seem inhumane in this society, such as lashing a woman for commiting fornication. ( i.e pride)

But most muslims just see your attempts as simply pathetic. And this is proven by the fact that almost everyone here are not ex muslims but people of other faiths and virtues.

EDITOR WROTE (QUOTE 3): This is also incorrect. Other religions are an alternative to Islam. Atheism is another, and so is agnosticism.

ANSWER: Every religion teaches the same laws as islam. So i dont know what your getting at. As a matter of fact the laws in the old testament is way above in punishment than what islam teaches. And hindusim is no alternative.

"The right religion" is a relative stance really. Depends on who one asks. Some people find Islam is the right religion for them, some find Christianity to be the right one, some find judaism to be the right one, some find an alternative to monetheistic religions such as buddism, hinduism, agnostism and some find ateism to suit them perfectly and some settle for something else altogether. Each to his or her own.

Therefore it is an arrogant statement that one's religion, irrespective of what it may be, is the "right" religion. Arrogance and slander are forbidden in islam at least in the Quran. But perhaps the Quran has less importance over personal preferences.

When one argues that 90% of people on here have no knowledge apart from hear-say, then the same argument could be used against any muslim, because at the end of the day, Islam too is spread and developed through hear-say. There is no scientific evidence showing that God or the various messengers, prophets have existed. Nothing. Except ones own personal faith from within. Logic is waived often (but many muslims do incorporate logic and common sense into their interpretation of religion and do not blindly follow everybody else (band wagon effect))

Also the argumentation, that everybody who disagrees, simply must be ignorant, exudes arrogance and failure to examine what the opponents actually say. The fact that majority of the inspiration and knowledge is derived from islamic sources such as widely accepted ahadith collections, Quran, Quranic tafsirs (i.e. Ibn Khathir), Siras (prophets biographies), ijma (widely held consensus on various issues which may or may not be clear from the sources themselves), scholarly fatwas and Q&A sessions online as well as offline.

In addition it is noteworthy that not every critic of Islam hates or even fears Islam. Some are in fact practising muslims themselves but they identify farstretching problems with the current day teachings and interpretations.

To simply write of a critic by claiming but not proving their alleged ignorance, is not very manly either. Most shy away from critique and would rather that everybody derived at the same 100% positive and rosy image of Islam as they do. Islam criticis might suggest that such Muslims are in fact living in denial and much seems to indicate that especially when they only defence is attacking everybody and making assumptions.

No wonder many critical muslims are living under daily threat and have to thread carefully so not to be discredited by the average muslim. One might also point out, that a debate with a scholar is not nessecary as each Muslim should be default have a solid and in debth knowledge of the faith they claim to submit to. Converts or born muslims - the knowledge is limited and the mind shut to accept any alternative interpretations or anything that even remotely seems as a critique of Islam, the messenger or the ahadith.

Fact remains, Faith Freedom and other non-muslim websites are open for any- and everybody. Yet if somebody who was critical or sceptical of Islam ventured into any muslim forum, online or offline, they would be trashed, slandered, attacked and denied writing. Many muslim websites have moderation so only the "correct" opinions come across. Critique is just not welcome as the standard indoctrinated perception is, that nothing with religion can be wrong.

Yet muslims have no problems launching critique against the West, the western governments, the western foreign policy, the immoral attitude of westerners and especially the sexual liberties of girls, equality, the wars, the political issues, the law proposals, ideologies, democracies, freedom of speech. That is a double standard. Hypocrisy at its best. This also explains why many muslims in muslim countries have problems fighting for their issues ranging from laws against child brides to womens right to divorce on equal terms as the man to denying the man more than one wife at the same time. Human rights, women rights, minority rights (coptic christians in Egypt, Christians in Pakistan, shia-muslims in Iraq etc) Why do these issues fail to anger the majority? Instead their mere existance is denied and its all swept under the carpet.

Every attempt to improve the condition, be that for women or freedom of speech, has been undermined and deterred by religious authorities. There are problems and facing them is the only way to create change.

LIGHT WROTE: When one argues that 90% of people on here have no knowledge apart from hear-say, then the same argument could be used against any muslim, because at the end of the day, Islam too is spread and developed through hear-say. There is no scientific evidence showing that God or the various messengers, prophets have existed. Nothing. Except ones own personal faith from within. Logic is waived often (but many muslims do incorporate logic and common sense into their interpretation of religion and do not blindly follow everybody else (band wagon effect))

ANSWER: Err no the same argument cannot be used against muslims. Because muslims dont produce websites that allow users to post hate-filled messages of people of other faiths. Muslims dont produce websites that is made for the purpose to spread lies and deceipts. Muslims dont mass produce books that speak lies about other religions. These acts or not done by muslims.

Islam is not spread by hear say. No one would convert to another religion based on someone speaking in regards to it, without no powerful evidence, but people will immediately belive in a lie. It is human nature. So when ali sina speaks of lie, and because you hate islam you are naturally going to belive in what he has to say. But if you were curious about his judgements and you had a bit of intellegent you would research his work and than you will come to a conclusion, that he speaks lie.

Why do i say this, because i have researched his work and there is one common fault with all his work. Which is when he states from the quran, forget it whether it is in context or not, he never states the verses accurately, he always edits a verse to suit his desires. If you dont belive me than look at his work. This is a sign of a LIER.

You say that there is no scientific evidence whether god's messengers existed.

We know that Adam was the first man on earth and that he was very very tall, much taller than any man on this planet today and even as tall as houses. What proof do we have: look at following site and see the size of a mans footprint.

http://www.sacredsites.com/asia/sri_lanka/adams_peak.html

We know the Noah was a messenger of God, and that he built a ship to carry the living while floods began. Well Noahs ark has been found. Read following site:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0427_040427_noahsark.html

We know that moses was a messenger, and we also know from quran stories that he drowned whilst chasing moses and his followers across the red sea barren sea floor. Well read and watch the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBjvpAbtHs8

We know that jesus was a prophet of god. And we know for a fact that he done miracles which was observed and written in many books.

We know that muhammed was a prophet, an illiterate guy who didnt know how to read or write, no education whatsover in any scientific fields, yet he produced the most scientific book of the century, which is also a book of guidance, the quran. You say what scientific proof does he have, well read some scientific facts found in the quran and compare it to modern facts and see if it contradicts or agrees. And also many scientists who converted to islam are actually putting in their references THE QURAN.

Light whether you agree or not, i have neough proof here to jusitfy why i belive.

LIGHT WROTE: To simply write of a critic by claiming but not proving their alleged ignorance, is not very manly either. Most shy away from critique and would rather that everybody derived at the same 100% positive and rosy image of Islam as they do. Islam criticis might suggest that such Muslims are in fact living in denial and much seems to indicate that especially when they only defence is attacking everybody and making assumptions.

ANSWER: Critcizism is not the same as lying. There is a difference. The problem arises when you lie and criticize. And your speaking utter stupidity by saying ''simply write of a critic by claiming but not proving their alleged ignorance, is not very manly either.''.

So if I was to call you a retarded undermined loser who is a pathetic perverted fat ass deprived hooligan would you accept it even though i have no proof of you being such a thing. Naturally no. You would argue in favour of you not being those things, and you would ask for proof. So what is the difference, here. If someone lies about my religion, naturally I am going to ask for proof of his lies. And if he fails to produce proof than he is a lier.

Faiza:

Next time you are up at sunrise or right before sunset notice the Direction the birds are facing while they are chirping (making salat).

I say:

My bird does not chirp facing Mecca.

LONDONSPIRIT,

In today's Op-Ed section I have seen your comments. I should say I admired your honesty.

“But any way even if i did assume ali sina is right and muhammed is wrong. Than let me analyze. By following muhammed i am promised pradise but by following ali sinas way when i die i will just turn in to dust and nothing will happen. By not following muhammed i am promised hell fire. So therefore i have nothing to loose by following islam but assuming ali sina is wrong i am promised hell fire so i have all to loose. Let me see what my brain tells me to follow?”

As your fellow human I would not like you to end up in neither dust nor in hell fire, instead I can STRONGLY suggest you a path. Please go to the website http://www.dhamma.org/ and take at least one 10day vipasana course in specified centers. Vipasana means insight into the nature of reality. The entire coure is free. You don't have to pay for anything.

Both Hindu and Buddism tells us that there is life after death. We are born as humans because we did some good in our past lives. You dont need to accept this. But the more you practise vipasana the more you can see the benefits of it.

How can I say. This is not my religion. But it is logical and rational that is why I pratice it. Now I am not a religious person.
I can safely say that you can achieve a lot in your spiritual awakening in these 10days than being a muslim all of your file.

After taking the course if you feel you are not satisfied I would pay the loss of 10days in your life with a $5000 check. But please attend it and let me know.

Peace

Sina:

I hear the birds chirping in the morning but I never knew they were giving salat. I have not seen them performing ablution or the other rituals like iqamah,rokood, sojood, or putting their right wing over their left wing, etc. Is their salat valid?

I say:

My bird ( I have a Cockatiel ) does neither of these. In fact her cage is covered during the night so she does not know when morning comes until I uncover her.

londonspirit:

We know that Adam was the first man on earth and that he was very very tall, much taller than any man on this planet today and even as tall as houses. What proof do we have: look at following site and see the size of a mans footprint.

I say:

This does not prove anything.

londonspirit:

We know the Noah was a messenger of God, and that he built a ship to carry the living while floods began. Well Noahs ark has been found. Read following site:

I say:

We don't if that is Noah's ark in Mount Ararat.

londonspirit:

We know that moses was a messenger, and we also know from quran stories that he drowned whilst chasing moses and his followers across the red sea barren sea floor. Well read and watch the following

I say:

According to the Biblical account the pharaoh did not drawn nor did he chase after Moses.

The link you posted does prove anything.

londonspirit there is no proof as to whether or not Adam, Noah, and Moses existed.

First of all I'd like to say something about the whole "alternatives to Islam (or any religion for that matter)" argument. This seems to be a pretty popular argument. It basically goes like this "If I die after apostating and [religion here] was right, I will burn in hellfire, if I die while believing in [religion here] and it turned out to be wrong I lose nothing." Basically, it breaks down to the idea that following a religion is "playing it safe". I find this a pretty bogus argument for the following reasons: A) The "I don't lose anything" part is wrong. You DO lose something by following a religion, you devote a lot of time to it which you could've spent improving the world or having fun, or basically anything since anything would be more useful than wasting time on a religion that turns out to be false afterwards. You also have to submit to certain rules which restrict the pleasure and freedom you can have during this life and so on. B) Even if you do follow a religion, there are hundreds of other possible religions with their belonging sects that all claim to be right and only way to heaven, so even by "playing it safe" you're still FAR from a guaranteed entry to heaven even if there is some sort of afterlife. Chances are pretty high you'll burn in hell along with the atheists and agnosts even while following a religion. C) You also assume God, if he exists, will show no tolerance towards the choice you made in life. If you decide to apostate from your religion due to the fact that it contains tons of scientific errors, commandments which make you feel guilty even though they supposedly come from God and so on, I'm sure he'll understand why you rejected his religion. No religion on earth right now is so convincing that rejecting it is just plain ignorance. The common trend seems to be that the people who have the largest knowledge of how the earth and universe work (scientists) also host the largest amount of atheists. The whole idea that disbelief is a greater sin than murder, torture or other inhumane thing is completely ridicilous.

With that out of the way I'd like to comment on some of the posts to this article. Or basically replying to what lightspirit wrote as the other posts (from muslims) don't seem to be worthy of attention.

1. You say Ali Sina is rejecting to debate with an Islamic scholar. In case you didn't notice, multiple transcripts of such debates are already posted here. If you meant debating in public, then by all means I can perfectly understand why Ali Sina wouldn't do that. He's already receiving tons of death threats while nobody knows his real identity. Do you think once people can finally put the person right next to the personality, he'll have a long life to live? I seriously doubt it. People who were far less critical of Islam but still critical got murdered before (Theo van Gogh), I'm willing to bet Ali Sina would be one of the main targets for assassination in the (radical) muslim community. The only possible way of doing a live debate for him would be through webcasting from a secret location while hiding his identity and transforming his voice or something. Even then, with live/public debates, the quality of said debates will be much lower than a written debate without time limits and such. The subject discussed here is a matter which requires a lot of research and has goldmines worth of information attached to it. There's no way you could adress even a small fraction of all the possible accusations against Islam in a live debate. Also "neutral" judges have no knowledge of Islam or Arabic, and therefore both parties can simply concoct bogus arguments without the judges having any way of confirming them.

2. Last time I checked Islam did NOT have the highest number of converts. That belonged to Atheism/Agnosticism. Islam is the fastest growing religion, that is true indeed but this is mostly due to having a higher amount of children produced compared to other religions. And yes, most people who do convert to Islam are women. There are many videos on these girls who do this. And all of them have pretty much one thing in common, and that is the fact that they all used to be party girls with little to no self-respect. Then at one point they want to get out of this, someone tells a half-truth about Islam to them that makes it seem like a very attractive and a very quick solution to their problem and thus they convert. I'm 200% sure that none of these girls would've converted if they were told beforehand that Islam's prophet had sex with a 9 year old, or that he had sex with a girl of who he just slaughtered her entire family, or that daughters only get half the inheritance of sons, or that husbands can beat their wives and so on. They're only told the positive aspects of Islam. They are weak persons in a vulnerable position, and Islam comes in to lure them in by exploiting their weakness (lack of dignity)and capitalizing on this, and telling only positive aspects about the religion. Germany in the early 20th century was a perfect example of this. Germany was in a terrible and weak state, Hitler came along and exploited these weaknesses to generate a following and guess what, 10 years later they're fighting the rest of the world and executing innocent people just for being Jewish or gypsies.

3. You're wrong that every religion teaches the same things as Islam. If that was the case, then Islam would've been completely irrelevant. The truth of the matter is that even WITHIN Islam you have multiple of sects all interpreting and abiding laws differently from the others. Also, atheism/agnosticism doesn't come with any laws from itself. We just abide the laws of the country we live in, which are distinctly different from what Islam teaches or any other religion for that matter. And don't say atheism/agnosticism is not an alternative. Also, why isn't hinduism an alternative? I know nothing about hinduism but just discarding it as not an alternative is pretty stupid.

4. Muslims do criticize other religions openly. Zakir Naik is a very well known example of this. He is constantly criticizing (attacking) religions like hinduism and christianity. Muslim websites like answering-christianity also do their best to attack other religions. Also, the idea that muslims aren't muslims through hear say is ridicilous. The vast majority is a muslim because of this. They are taught by their parents to be muslims, and their parents in many cases are only doing so because they were raised to think like that as well. The amount of muslims that have read the Quran, let alone the hadith or the sirat is laughable. Most of them are only taught some of the basics and that's it. Also, while Ali Sina might cherrypick things to suit his own agenda, muslims are very often guilty to this themselves. I do check the contexts, and I have yet to find anything where it would make a huge difference (in favor of Islam at least).

5. Regarding your scientific arguments. First of all, there's no way to know if that footprint is actually from Adam. Secondly, the link you provided itself states others think it's a footprint from Sheva. Why don't you become a hindu? Thirdly, it seems a little weird that for the hundreds of years Adam lived on the planet, all there is to find of him is 1 footprint and a bunch of stories rediscovered only thousands of years after his death. Fourth argument, if the great flood was true, I would imagine something as simple as a footprint wouldn't have survived... the picture even shows that the original worshippers of the footprint built a shrine around it to protect it. If it needs a shrine for protection, then surely the great flood would've ruined the footprint. Lastly, there is no way of figuring out whether it was fabricated or not. If you've ever seen sandsculpture you can see the amazing things humans can make with just a load of sand. It shouldn't have been too hard to fabricate a large sized footprint.

Moving on to Noah's ark. Noah's Ark has NOT been found. You've linked an article from 2004 that states that the researches HOPE to find it. 5 years have passed now and we've heard nothing from them so far. If their claims were true, that they had images which showed leftovers from the Ark then surely they would've found them by now. Actually, I looked it up to double check it and they are still searching in the hope of finding something.

As for Moses. The very first comment you see on the video already debunks your claim. It's the body of Merneptah, which was NOT found in the Red Sea. Even then, there is no possible way of knowing whether a body found in the Red Sea is actually from the Pharaoh of the Moses story. Neither the Bible nor the Qur'an provides any description of what the Pharaoh looked like.

Basically, you're accusing people here in your posts of not following Islam because of hear say they got from sites like this one, yet you are someone who is blindly following these so called miracles of the Quran without double checking them.

The Quran the most scientific book of the century? Don't make me laugh. The Qur'an is riddled with scientific errors and contains no useful knowledge that wasn't already discovered by the Greeks, hundreds of years before the birth of Muhammad, and even before the establishment of Christianity. No one ever attributed their scientific findings to the Qur'an until recently, when people started looking for verses from the Qur'an that could be interpreted, with a lot of fantasy and lying about Arabic, as something in correspondence with modern day scientific facts. Basically, no one knew that the Qur'an contained scientific facts until these facts had been established by scientists, and even then the Qur'an is wrong on a lot of accounts. I'm assuming here that you got this kind of info from pro-Islamic websites or lectures from people like Zakir Naik, again hinting towards the idea that you yourself only check one side of the story while accusing others of doing the same, just from the other point of view. Actually, if you want to hear something funny, there are "scientists" who instead of linking an established scientific fact to some verse of the Qur'an are actually trying to come up with new scientific discoveries through the text of Islam. These are the people you can see talking in the 21st century of a flat earth. They exist, it's not a joke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc

If the Qur'an truly contained scientific knowledge, hundreds of years before anyone else discovered them then a lot of scientists would've converted to Islam a long time ago. Yet it is these scientists, the ones who have the best knowledge on the subject of science, that contains over 90% of atheism if I recall correctly. Just because a few scientists, who are on the payroll of Saudi oil sheikhs, claim the Qur'an contained scientific knowledge unknown to mankind at that time, doesn't make it truth. In fact, both of the most popular ones who claimed this (Keith Moore and Bucaille if I recall correctly) NEVER converted to Islam... do you truly think that if they were sincere about their statements they wouldn't have converted to Islam for the promise of paradise?

In closing, you seem to be a decent person in the fact that you at least tried to find some evidence for your religion rather than blindly believing it. It's unfortunate all you found was muslim propaganda that you didn't double check to be sure.

P.S: The claim that everyone is born a muslim is also a load of bull. People who never heard of any sort of religion never came up with things you could relate to Islam. If everyone was born muslim, then people would've known of Islam before Muhammad and would've called themselves muslims before. The idea that everyone is born muslim is just a fallacy that you believe as true because you literally believe in the Qur'an. When I was raised my parents never discussed the issue of religion with me. They never told me whether God exists or not. They didn't raise me as an atheist, they didn't raise me as an agnost, they didn't raise me as follower of religion X, they simply left out the subject of religion completely. Yet I am not a muslim, how is that possible? If everyone was born as muslim, why do muslims indoctrinate their children to become muslims? It makes zero sense, just like a lot of things in Islam do.

Nameless:

5. Regarding your scientific arguments. First of all, there’s no way to know if that footprint is actually from Adam. Secondly, the link you provided itself states others think it’s a footprint from Sheva. Why don’t you become a hindu? Thirdly, it seems a little weird that for the hundreds of years Adam lived on the planet, all there is to find of him is 1 footprint and a bunch of stories rediscovered only thousands of years after his death. Fourth argument, if the great flood was true, I would imagine something as simple as a footprint wouldn’t have survived… the picture even shows that the original worshippers of the footprint built a shrine around it to protect it. If it needs a shrine for protection, then surely the great flood would’ve ruined the footprint. Lastly, there is no way of figuring out whether it was fabricated or not. If you’ve ever seen sandsculpture you can see the amazing things humans can make with just a load of sand. It shouldn’t have been too hard to fabricate a large sized footprint.

I say:

To me it looked like they were worshipping nothing but mud.

Nameless, tons of similar good argument have been produced, what Ls needs ia sand from arabian desert to rub his cataract, and sword to pierce his blocked ears.

Londonspirit, please let me know your view, from my question you ignored on first part of this article September 12, 2009 • 4:12 am

Ls***Why dont you DEMSCI show me proof that islam are teaching inhumane things against humanity. ***

what about wife beating that you agree it’s allowed in islam?
what about stoning people that you said wasn’t supported in quran and hadits, but still done in the name of islam?

Ls, WERE THE JEWS INFERIOR THAN YOU, can you please give me NO or YES answer, instead linguistic gymnastic and please explain your reason

what muhamed got something to do with intercession like written in quran, if jesus is the judge?
why quran didn’t give slightest idea about someone who will be the judge on judgement day?
where in quran says he will be the judge and back as muslim?

make me laugh, stupidity and hypocricy has no limit

Speaking utter stupidity is LondonSpirit, who equates calling people names like "a retarded undermined loser who is a pathetic perverted fat ass deprived hooligan" to reasoned argumentation. Now I have not read everything that Mr Sina has written. But a few things I have read do make sense if you strip away the clear dislike of Islam.

When you repeatedly stoop to calling people names, and calling everybody who voices criticism a liar or islam hater, then you have shown you have no real argumentation. Ad Hominem attacks are generally used by many and muslims are no exception to "reason" or "counterdebate". Absolutely pathetic as it reveals that you have no solid argumentation other than bashing people and calling them names. Does Islam teach you to call people names? Does islam teach you to stoop to such transgression when you fight/argue? In fact not. So one could argue that LS is not a muslim at all or at least not a muslim who gives a toss about what the Quran has to say on simple matters of debate and approaching critics. I find the Quran to be much more openminded then LS can ever hope to be. LS remains at best an insult to Islam.

"Err no the same argument cannot be used against muslims. "

Err yes the same argument can be used against Muslims. Hear say is what defines religion and existance of God is still not proven.

"Because muslims dont produce websites that allow users to post hate-filled messages of people of other faiths. "

Sure they do. One can surf any major islamic fatwa website or forums where people can ask questions or where islamic discussions and debates are public. Offline or online. One can visits mosques where hate preach takes places more often than one imagines.

"Muslims dont produce websites that is made for the purpose to spread lies and deceipts."

Same as above. There are many websites which deny anything that is negative or less flattering without even providing evidence or reasoning. So that is technically called lying. Some provide evidence but only what suits their agenda or supports their view. Not the full truth.

"Muslims dont mass produce books that speak lies about other religions. These acts or not done by muslims."

Actually many books, websites and article both by academics and scholars to "reveal" various theories as to the alleged falsehood of Christianity, the eternal conspiracy by jews against the Muslims, Islam and the world. Readily available at your locak bookshop or online.

"So when ali sina speaks of lie,"

Look who is talking. This is the kettle calling the water.

"and because you hate islam you are naturally going to belive in what he has to say."

Where did "light " they hate islam? Do people hate islam? Light said people have different preferences and that is fine. You just falsely claimed "light" to be a liar, and islam hater. So in fact it can with prof be concluded that LondonSpirit is hypocritical liar.

You talk nonsense and clearly suffer from chronical stupidity and denial. Falsely accusing somebody is islamically prohibited. But again why should you care. Only a true muslim would care.

You think mr Sina is lying. Ok prove it. If you feel something is omitted, then submit it. Nobody is stopping you or censoring you. But don't assume people should take your conclusions without proper reasoning for granted especially in light of the way you derive them. Just because people dont agree with you, they do not hate islam. What the helk kind of twisted logic is that? Are you by any chance related to Bush? He was also fond of the "if you are not with us you are against us" crap.

"But if you were curious about his judgements and you had a bit of intellegent you would research his work and than you will come to a conclusion, that he speaks lie."

Again, assuming, people will end up with the same conclusion as yourself is simply stupid and unrealistic. When people read a book, any book, they will arrive at different perceptions. Because we all think differently. People are curious and thats why most islam critics are more knowledgable than by the average Muslim. Most muslims have not even studied the full Quran and no muslim has studied the multiple hadith collections so most are not aware by the problem areas.

But the fact is anybody who claims islam is faced with problems to you is an islam-hater. So it is a no-win situation. What if people were to claim that anybody such as yourself who claims to be a muslim, is a misogynistic, wifebeating, female mutilation believing, non-muslim/infidel hating, anti-semitic, lying, racist,perverted, sexaddicted bigot pedophile - surely you would not like it let alone disagree. So if you are going to be talking on here I suggest you get a grip and start by addressing properly.

You have a lot to learn about debating in a sober manner. I think you will find the Quran a good guide in this.

It should have been:

“So when ali sina speaks of lie,”

Look who is talking. This is the pot calling the kettle.

Good Moslem : A person who believes and practices
Pedophilia, Wife beating, child molesting, raping, murder, looting, lying, hatred of decent people or non moslems, who eats like a pig, who stinks like a pig, who is brain dead, irrational, uncouth, uncivilised, stubborn, indoctrinated, screws daughter and daughter in law, has sex with humans and animals( camels) essentially a two legged animal. Kindly add sme more qualities of a good moslem

Come on now. One can not generalize but there are some serious issues with islam and its current day teachings which need to be addressed and resolved instead of denying everything.

I don't believe by generalizing all muslims like this will help in any way. Besides it is offensive especially when you do not condone or even practise such things.

Okay okay I take it back.I abrogate those verses! Moslem are those who appreciate and practice pedophilia, arson, looting, raping, screwing daughter in law, consider a woman as nothing but a hole, dumb, don't eat pigs, eat like pigs during ramadan, screw a child, enjoy and think about destruction all the time.
Are you a recent ex moslem? wanderer?

ProudKafir,

Hey, I am just trying to establish a sober dialogue/communication. That is difficult if there is bashing going on. Nobody is going to listen to each other and so this will just be a site where people bash. I'd like to think otherwise. I consider myself a critical voice. I am a firm believer that religion, Islam or other, is not exempted from criticism.

This muslimah deserve to be 18th legal wife of Mohamad.Her brain capacity is same as Mohamad's.May be she is reincarnation of Mohamad bin Abdullah.

LondonSpirit is here on FFI to test and improve us. He often is a strong opponent (for me and to me anyway).

And I was astonished and elated and very grateful by the superb defense of FFI that was put up by Light, Nameless, Wanderer. How logical, informed and informative these great posts were. You three, thanks very much and big compliments!

LondonSpirit,

You just don't fathom the essense of the discussion or my post. By negating something you prove nothing. It calls for "s-u-b-s-t-a-n-t-i-a-t-i-o-n". Try to familiarize yourself with it. It must be hard what with all the ranting and hurling abuse at everybody you disagree with.

Anybody can make claims.

But only a real man (or woman) can substantiate it.

You have failed miserably because your logic is simple: Deny, deny and deny.

You claim everybody who does not have the same positive view of Islam, is an islam hater. That is about as logical, if I called everybody like you a woman hating murderer.

Your logic is therefore fundamentally and absolutely flawed.

If you have some evidence to bring to the table, then bring it. Stop with the whining and self-inflicted victim role.

Your links prove NOTHING.

The first link talks about a giant foot print which many people have claimed including 300 BC Buddhists, Portuguese Christians and lastly Arabs. So it proves nothing about Adam or his existance.

The second link has a heading followed by a question mark. A questionmark indicates either a question or uncertainty. And had you bothered reading the article before copy/pasting the link, you would see it is simply a theory. No scientific proof so far of Noah's Arch.

The third link is a youtube video showing a body found in the Red Sea and you deduce that this proves Moses existed? That proves nothing about Moses. In addition Moses was not chased by Pharoah. So you might want to brush up on your christianity.

If you plan on discussing with me, then drop the arrogance and obnoxious act. You don't come across too intelligent yourself but in fact only confirm my earlier post, that everybody who is a critic is automatically dismissed and discredited, but anybody who speaks praisingly of Islam is assumed to be intelligent and good. This "logic" is beyond stupidity. And then any discussion will be infutile because you expect a certain result from the get go. In order to debate you need to entertain the idea of the opponent even if you do not believe it.

"Critcizism is not the same as lying. There is a difference. The problem arises when you lie and criticize. "

I comepletely agree. but then you must articulate your objections and prove them. As far as I can see many people on here are using islamic litteratur to prove their point. So you must be default also think the islamic work of reference (Quran, ahadith, ijma, sirat) are all lies. Or else argue why you believe they are wrong.

"And your speaking utter stupidity by saying ‘’simply write of a critic by claiming but not proving their alleged ignorance, is not very manly either.”"

But calling people names like "dumb ass, liar" is intelligent? Is that slander? Nothing measures up to the stupidity you have posted.

"So if I was to call you a retarded undermined loser who is a pathetic perverted fat ass deprived hooligan would you accept it even though i have no proof of you being such a thing"

Another outburst of intelligence because I am not impressed. The only retarded undermined loser who is a pathetic perverted fat ass (do you hate fat people?) deprived hooligan in here appears to be you. I won't turn the other cheek if that is what you are counting on.

If you attack people then expect retaliation. If you have the guts to engage in a sober debate without acting like an infantile, then go ahead. But either way stop passing judgement on everybody in here. You are not MENSA and you are not God. That is called generalizing. Everybody is not an enemy in here. You have failed to even read and address the issues raised in my previous post, which prompts me to doubt you motives in here.

I don't care what or who you believe in. Each to his own. If you want to know what I do care about, then you can read (actually read) my previous two posts. Because your entire post was evasive and addressed none of the issues. The world was angry, when Rumsfeld instead of owning up just denied everything about Abu Ghraib. You are using the same tactic. This is the problem I addressed in my posts. And you forget that MANY muslim academics, scholars and intellectuals have raised the same concerns, objections and criticism.

So in brief: If you disagree. Cool, then state your objections with proof and reasoning. Denial and evasiveness do not substantiate any claims.

Thanks, Demsci.

I can't comment as I have seen nothing from him to oppose. Just denial and evasion.

But never say never.

I haven't even read the first email from her that was posted and I could tell she's a western convert! The "Peace out" gave her away! lol Nah, I could tell before that.

Light,

I have the perfect religion for everyone....Meghaism...Goddess of Pepsi! Can't go wrong with that one! just kidding

I'd have to say the bird thing made me stop and think for a sec cuz I've never actually paid attention to which direction they face....but I guess now I know why some birds sing before dawn/right at it....oh, sorry...allah doesn't allow singing so they're performing the call for prayer!

I hope this girl is not an African-American...if so, she really needs to look at what Koran says about her!

Megha:

I have the perfect religion for everyone….Meghaism…Goddess of Pepsi! Can’t go wrong with that one! just kidding

I say:

Another pepsi junkie?

I'm feeling sorry for LondonSpirit.
I was going to give him a hammering for his post here - but many others beat me to that.
I'm feeling rather sorry for him, actually.
Normally I'd say that he argues well - about as well as he can given the hand he has to play.
But this last! What a mix of credulity (Adam's footprint), non-evidence (the ark and Arafat) and historical inaccuracy (Pharoah).
It falls so far short of what I expect from LS that I'm thinking that perhaps this was LS practising his dry wit on us again. I can easilty imagine him thinking: "I bet that lot as FFI will think I beleive this nonsense."
(If I'm wrong LS, my apologies - in advance.)

this letter is so funny muslims r hilarious

Megha:
"I have the perfect religion for everyone….Meghaism…Goddess of Pepsi! Can’t go wrong with that one! just kidding"

We'll just call you "Bubbles" then.

WRT birds: Unfortunately for Faiza birdsong is really just the bird yelling "This is my bit, keep out!" or (in mating season) "I'm fit" or similar (eg the cuckoo - which "cuckoos" for a mate.)
A second (religious) reply to that would be: "You might wish that Birdsong is Salat, but have you noticed how they all make the sign of the Cross with their wings and body as they fly? So it's actually a hymn of praise."
(Actually birdsong strikes me as closer to a "hymn" in sound than moslems at Salaat or the Azaan! Except for genus Corvus that it and seagulls.)

Megha,

Make it pepsi max and you got yourself a deal!

A poster said this:

"So now Allah is also the sun god? Why are the birds not facing Mecca instead of the sun? Also does the chirping of these birds also not offend your Allah as he hates singing? These birds can’t be real Muslims."

This makes me wonder if said muslimia is a closet worshipper of the Aten.

Listen Mam,

Believe me, one day there will rise a prophet of true religion from this site. I assure that prophet would not be ALi Sina himself because the prophet would spread message of Ali Sina so Ali Sina is god himself with this name, whose messenger would spread his true religion. Meanwhile, the god himself giving message to ignorant people. The commencement of these message is a bounty of God. You know, no one writes on this site as "Ali Sina" but automatically through strange and unexplainable source these arguments are published in this website. This is a miracle of God. We the members are not doing anything against Islam. God with the name of "Ali Sina" telling you the truth about Islam. Ok, now u are satisfied. You can fearlessly submit to the truth of Ali Sina without fear of being raped and molested even if you are of 9 years age.

"LondonSpirit is here on FFI to test and improve us. He often is a strong opponent "

Not to me. He failed all the things i asked him and he often behaves like "thief who accuse another people being a thief like him" or "pretend to be logical when he himself is not logical at all when comes to islam". A fool who accuse other being a fool is an idiot. You see Demsci, when you deal with muslim you just ask them for proof and reality, it's that simple. One reality is better than a thousand words.