Ishitaq Ahmed vs FFI Staff

Printer-friendly versionSend to friendPDF versionFrom: Ishitaq Ahmed To: FFI Date: Jun 26, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: Re Re: Hi fellow....wana answer my questions...???? Hi: Debate continues...... You said: ******************************************************* [color=purple]"Ali Sina has been promoted to being a full time writer of articles and books and battling hairy mullahs. I have taken on the task of handling emails most of the time. The email will get published at the site some time, but I am not sure if it will be the main head line on the front page of the web site."[/color] Sina is promtoed??? i pardon, he claims to be owner of the site so , what promotions????? he wrote in debates that he go to job,,,,, well well thanks to guys like u by whose donations... he is no more required to do any job outside....my demand was to publish the mails on FRONT PAGE or to a proper link..........u can't do this, i know u wouldn't!!! it'll be negative to ur claims... [color=green]Dear Ishtiaq, I give responses numbered according to the breaks given by the sections marked by row of asteriks in your email. So you may have to refer to your email to see what I am replying to. 1. He is the owner of the site. There is no organisation, and hence there is no one there to promote him. That was just a way of saying that he does not answer emails, but I do. And your email was published. See: [url=index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=24&page=1] http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=24&page=1[/url] But do not expect that I will be publishing everything and anything anyone including you demand. I intend to put on the site most of the emails in time. I have no idea if AliSina does any outside jobs or not. If AliSina had to depend on my donations, I assure you he would have starved a long time ago. My contribution is mainly spending time at the forum and answering emails so far.[/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]"Ali is telling the truth about muhammed. That is what the biographers of muhammed have said. Ali is not inventing or creating any new facts. He uses the words and events written by the muslim historian themselves to show that muhammed was indeed an evil man. Truth can be rude but it does need to be told. Every one used to believe that the earth was flat...."[/color] I am a hairy guy but not Mullah... and here Sina ( as i doubt ur writing a letter by ur self) is battling with me.... U know what Ber. Shaw said "Every hero is a villan to other nation" same case is here, Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was a hero and all EVILS should be his enemy....and who is saying that biographers are right and not biased...even in this information age , we can't find ANYONE right in his claims whether someone say about George Bush....or Nelson Mandela.....so how can we they are right???? Muhammad (PBUH) was not EVIL he was a famous person before he was given messagership by Allah at the age of 40. (You can refer any of the book ).He was so naive and honest person that poeple of Macca use to obey him and belives what he says as truth...during all his life he NEVER , NEVER showed anything that may be objected by his enemies of that time, even they respect of him by their heart, though they not belive on him ........hundred of thousands of poeple beleaved Islam in his life....and that's enough evidence..... U might know there is NOWHERE written in QURAN (the most authentic source of Islam) that earth is/was flat.....though it's written clearly that earth,moon,sun are revolving in their radius (amazing haan!) , u know it's beleived by scientists that sun is also revolving...just descovered few years ago!!! (amazing again) they are revolving just as muslims revolve around Kabba , just like electrons revolve around nucleas in atom ..... and in Quran , Allah says ..."we have created earth and streched it like a carpet, so u can walk on it" so dear it means "he steched earth like a baloon so much that we can walk on it feeling like walikning on a carpet" and that's what we feel , isn't it??? [color=green] 2. I am answering by myself, and getting no input from Ali Sina. I did try looking up your quote of Bernard Shaw and did not find it. But I did find one by him that I liked: "I'm an atheist and I thank God for it", and I will borrow it from him to say "I'm a kaafir and I thank Muhammed for it".You are making statements about Muhammed. Where did you get your information? You got it from a biographer of Muhammed, did you not, or did Gibreel come to you as well. The information that Ali Sina uses comes from not the enemies of Muhammed but his followers, from the great Imams of Islam. Why would Imam Bukhari, or Muslim lie? Why would Tabari try to tell lies that reflect badly upon Muhammed? If anything one expects the followers would tell lies to make Muhammed look better than he really was. So now you say "NEVER,NEVER showed anything that may be objected", and I tell you that if you care to study the original biography and the original history of Muhammed for yourself, you may end up finding a lot of things that you will object to yourself. And that is what has made a lot of us ex-muslims and kaffirs. Are you willing to look at the life of Muhammed according to the Muslim historians and hadeeth? I do warn you that if you do, Muhammed comes out to be an evil man. So remain in your ignorance and a muslim, or open your eyes and learn the facts and you will become an ex-muslim. You have bought into Muslims science and claiming quran tells you that the planets revolved around the sun!! Is that why Ibn Baz, the mufti of mecca, in 1993 asserted that anyone who did not believe that the earth was flat was a kaafir and then in 1996 was retracting his fatwa? And unfortunately you reveal the level of your science when you write: "earth, moon, sun are revolving in their radius" for it makes absolutely no sense. What the heck is revolving in their radius mean? And which muslim has come up with "stretched earth like a baloon"? Muslim science is pathetic because you are absolutely stuck with having every single last word of the quraan to be correct for eternity! What some barabarian mouthed off in 7th century, just has to be right, and if it means twisting every single muslim on this planet into an idiotic pretzel babbling nonsense then so be it![/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]And what do you do when the actions and teachings of the "mother" result in endagering an entire people? If the teaching are causing grave harm to the muslims, and some one loves and cares and considers those people to be his people, what do you think he should do? [/color] Let me remind u Sir,poeple seen Islam as their savour that why they attracted by them in just no time...still it is the fastest growing religion....refrence???... miscrosoft-USA encyclopedia, and that encyclopedia has varios refrences of surveys,,,, checfkout by urself.... Islam is not just only view of Jehad,,,, it is a small portion of it , there are thousands of teaching of islam who urges human NOT to involve in ANY crime....any means "ANY" crime, it doest teach anything that may harm humans.... refer to Quran , Allah says "Killing one innocent human is killing all humanity" so , killing an innocent human is also a crime...Yes in wars , everyone ...American,Indian,Canadian,Japneesee,Ducth....everyone... is suppose to kill their enemies, so what muslims did and what their opponents/Jews/cristhans did... [color=green] 3. Here we go again: fastest growing religion and that makes everything okay? The fastest growing virus makes the virus acceptable? And the fastest growing means that the birth rates of the muslims around the world are the highest in the world, which is condemning the muslim countries into a hell of poverty and deprivation. That is the reason why the lines for visas for travelling to kaafir countries are so so long in muslim countries. And now the kaafirs are getting very very wary of letting muslims into their countries, and so I hope you are prepared to enjoy all that growth in Islam in muslim countries. Ah, at least you do not lie as baldly as some other muslims! You added that "innocent" in "Killing one innocent human is killing all humanity"! Now let us take a look at what Allah really said: 005.032 YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. 005.033 YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; What is spreading mischeif in the land? This spreading mischeif is as bad as murder. And then what is "waging war against allah and His Messanger"? So what is this "innocence" that you are talking about, and what is that Allah means by it? What does he mean by the jews "continued to commit excesses in the land"? And the very next verse is "who wage war against allah and his messenger...mischief through the land" is execution, crucifixion, and cutting off hands and feet! So what does that mean? Here Sahih Bukhari may help you out a little: Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796: Narrated Anas: A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died. (Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder and fought against Allah and His Apostle.") Theft was stealing the camels, murder was killing the shepherd, but what was fighting against allah and his messanger? Do you see that? And did you see the mercy of the all merciful and the mercy of his messanger? Do they kill like that these days? Burning eyes, bleeding to death, and denying water to those bleeding to death? And did you match the punishment with that in the quran? Do you understand what is "spreading mischeif in the land" and "fighting against allah and his messenger"? You see Ishitiaq, the rub is in who is an "innocent" human, is it not? Anyone who opposes Islam is no longer innocent, for he fights against Allah and his messenger and his punishment is cutting of limbs and crucifixion. The jihadis of today are beheading all these civilians because they consider the civilians to be not "innocent", or do you think they are beheading innocent civilians. [/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]Should he at least try to warn them or not, or should he say that he cannot because he will hurt peoples feelings? [/color] I was just trying to convence You poeple "SAY WHAT IS IN YOUR MIND" BUT " USE SOFT WORDS NOT SO RIDICULOUS LANGUAGE AS U USED ABOUT OUR PROPHET calling her rapist and other words... and thats a shame for Sina, who don't respect Muslims (who are also human as Sina and you poeple), but it need a sensible approch to know how to debate, how to challenge and how to argue, i again say Sina has used that language just to get anti-islamic poeple happy so that, sorry to say, raise donation for his own [color=green] 4. But Ishitiaq, you prophet is all that Ali Sina charges. What do you think of a man depicted in the Sahih hadith that I have given above? What do you think of a man who denies water to the thirsty who are being bled to death? You give me a word for that kind of man. The penalty of murder is death in some countries. It is not even that in many. But killing by cutting off limbs, bleeding someone to death under a blazing hot sun, and then denying them water when they get thirsty! Go ahead you tell me what is the gentlest word to describe that kind of a man and that kind of a God that wants that kind of a punishment.[/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]If Ali Sina is wrong then people can ignore him, can they not? Ali Sina did not make you go to his web site, or did he?[/color] "AND THEN U SAID" The members are helping voluntarily. But the site still needs money, and we would like to reach across to many more muslims around the world who cannot get access to the internet. We would like to put Ali Sina's message on the radio, on TV, in books etc What a contradctory statement dear, on 1st paragraph u r saying "Sina is not inviting" and in second u r saying "u need donations to invite poeple" , what can i say further.... u can judge by ur self how clumsy is this aurgument [color=green] 5. I do not see what contradiction you are referring to. Did someone force you to visit Ali Sina's site? Why did you visit FFI? Did someone force you? It is clear that we want as many muslims around the world to come and visit FFI, but we do not want to force a single one. Any one who comes should come because they want to. Where is the contradiction?[/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]Just Saudi Arabia puts out tens of billions of dollars a year to do Du'a around the world. And you resent a notice for donations on a small single web site? But you see, you are right to be worried, because Ali Sina has the truth on his side, and Islam is a hollow monster that cannot stand the truth being told about it. That is why death for apostacy, death for blasphemy, death for anyone who really questions islam.[/color] Saudi Arabia isDONATING , he can donate ALL of his money at his own BUT you poeple are BEGGING ... what a huge difference ....and what do u mean by small website.... if this can bring u a miilon of dollar donation... it will be strong enough to happy u n ur Sina, i say a frustrated person who wanted to be millionare by this CHEAP way.... and JEWS/CHRISTANS aslo make billon of dollars donations to promote their religoin , ever u wrote this on ur website...ok USA is spending trillion of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq killing hundred of thousands of poeple there, i wonder why u don't give a single in formation about this , who just by a single bomb killed 200,000 poeple in NAGASAKI, JAPAN and same in HEROSHEMA and handicapped millions ...... i wonder why u dont protest this in ur website.... Death is for that person who claims to be messenger after MUHAMMAD (PBUH).....if someone is real messenger, he can clain it and there is no death for him at all , millions of poeple argue Islam daily... and we love to answer them on TV,NEWS PAPER,WEBSITES , u r also welcome to ask ANYTHING about Islam and we are here to answer you ,,, and if someone insult my mother, father,sister or my Prophet , I will punish him ... iots a simple rule my dear and u also follow it if u really respect ur mother, father ... [color=green] 6. Even if we are begging, if someone wants to give, they are giving their own money just like you claim Saudi Arabia is giving "his" money. Why do you object to people giving their own money? Now suddenly you want to talk about the "evil USA" and its bombs. Do you really want to discuss the second world war and all the reasons for Nagasaki and Hiroshima? I do not think so. Please read your fellow countryman's article [url=http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C06%5C23%5Cstory_23-6-2006_pg3_3]Dailytimes[/url] "The latest dominant trait of the Muslims is victimhood. They think they are being persecuted and killed everywhere in the world. They want the world to take notice of this while the Muslims as a rule feel nothing about those outside the umma who suffer. The feeling of victimhood has something to do with the expatriate Muslims' inability to integrate among host societies and their dissatisfaction with their own states." And who decides if someone is a real messenger or not? You? Was Ghulam Mirza a real messenger? Was BahaUllah a real Messenger? Was Guru Nanak a real messenger? Who decides who is a real messenger? I respect all people Ishtiaq. I merely tell the truth about your prophet. Just I have shown you that he was the kind of a man who denied water to the thirsty who were being bled to death under a hot blazing sun. I did not say that, mind you, Imam Bukhari said that Anas said it, and you do know who Anas was, do you not?[/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]Why ae you worried about that? Muslims never tire of telling how Islam is the fastest growing religion, how there are 1.2, no 1.5, no 1.7, no 2+ billion mulims around the world, and you are worried that FFI had 3 million visitors? .................. Prove him wrong and the whole thing collapses and there will not be even a single visitor to the site. [/color] Despite all of ur aggression and ur inner hate and frustration , that is easily understandable... and can be juged easly ....ITS A FACT that ur information about the visitors is "WRONG"...."WRONG"..... and ok , if muslims, who are stupids is ur eyes rigth , so we can say , why r u following stupids and if they are wrong in their figure, don't do the same write 3 million visits NOT VISITORS.... and what a justice..... listen carefully.... as u said , its not an organisation , so answer me who are u , a member, and a member is not possible without an organisation ... so u r telling a LIE, website has become automatically an organisation right on the day when u became a member.... and u r using official EMAIL ID WHICH IS RESERVED FOR DONATIONS ...HMMMMM... its mean u know Sina very closly OR this website is so unsecure that an ORDINARY MEMBER can access it's email.... there is no PROVEN identiity of this SINA , i m affraid whether his real name is ROBERT or ANTONY ...... claiming his ex-muslim...wht is the prove of it??? and ALL of poeple who sends emails are ex-muslims... hahaha ,,, who can beleave this???? emails can be send from a dummy id and u can feed there FAKE NAMES... its so eazzy.. AND despite of it if we prove him wrong , will SINA accept this that he is wrong ... EVEN PRESIDENT BUSH is not accdepting yet that he was wrong in his invasion of Iraq despite BILLIONS of poeple condemn him o n his acts bu he is stiil not convinced that he is WRONG so how an ordinary person "SINA" beleaves/Accepts that he is wrong .... he is a man without a morale charatoer, sorry to say but he is, if this name is not fake.... he has no morale because his intention are clear "against Islam" not against hatred, if he is against hatred then he or u should condemn the war by muslims , but u r condeming whole Islam, who has, i m again saying thousands of things which are for the benefite of humans , not against them , for example , u can say that rights of neighbors, parents that Islam taught r wrong .... so again , don't be poisnous to whole Islam , if u think anything wrong, conde4mn it only [color=green] 7. Okay in the sense you are using the word "organisation" you are correct that FFI is an organisation. But we are all volunteers. AliSina gave me access to this email account and gave me a password to access it and lets me answer his email. I do that because I believe in what Ali Sina is doing and want him to succeed. I do it because I have a lot of muslim relatives and friends who I would like to leave Islam. I have helped many to become ex-muslims and see the truth about Islam. I have never met AliSina. I know nothing about him outside his website. I have never gotten a penny from him.[/color] ******************************************************* [color=purple]Ali Sina is a free thinker, and you can find information about that on his web site. Ali Sina has said: "I don't believe in any religion. "[/color] Ok then just give a link on MAIN PAGE about ur self, what u beleive , who u r STRAIGHT FORWARDLY... u can do it SINA if u r not hypocrate, u should do it [color=purple]Since when did names become muslims or not? Was Abu Bakr not a pagan name, was Ali not a pagan name, was Mohammed not a pagan name? So muslims stole all the pagan names just as they stole the kabbah and mecca which used to pagan "temple" and a pagan city. Muhammed invented lies about Abraham and Ishmael building the kabbah, and lies about that pagans are filthy and not allowed to go to mecca. Ishtiaq and Ahmed are also pagan names. Who said that they are muslim names?[/color] Retur to 21st century man ... society has grown up ,,,,, poeple have boundaries now , they are recognised by their names ... and that's the main identity of a person about his relgion and country .... Ishtiaq is NOT PEGAN NAME its from pure urdu ....don't say what u r not know correctly ....NAMES ARE DO MUSLIMS AND OF NON-MUSLIMS every thing can't be defended by logic, GROUND REALITY COUNTS..... ******************************************************* [color=purple]May you open your eyes, and start using your brains and see that Islam is an evil cult and that you are trapped in it. May you be free of it and so you may not condemn your children's children to bear its burden and evil. I will try to get it posted on the site soon. [/color] I again say "MAY ALLAH GIVE YOU LIGHTS ..and MAY U RETURN TO ISLAM ONE DAY" Open ur mind , use ur brain , which has unlimited power of wittiness ..... don't be REGID and feel that u r 100% right , don't insult human ....have justice... "Muhammad never killed any person when he won war in Macca, infact it's one of the few wars in history that were won without any single bolldshed"... i must say again "correct ur information " AND in the last, ONLY EMAIL ME WHEN U INCLUDE BOTH MY EMAILS AND YOUR ANSWERS IN YOUR WEBSITE...otherwise stick to ur thoughts and dont reply me ..... beacuse i m feelling ur side not on justice,,,, u r just keeping challenge but not issuing the ANSWERS to ur challenge..... NOT EVEN ISSUING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOURSELF and its clearly indicated ur hypocracy!!!!! "ALSO INCLUDE THE COMPLETE INFORMATION ABOUT THE DONATIONS U OR THAT BASTARD SINA RECEIVE......AND ALSO INFORMATION AND AUDIT REPORT WHERE U used THEM" You r also ashamed to use your name in ur signature, what a shame!!! bye anyway, remember forst include mails then reply, otherwise DONT Ishtiaq Ahmed, Proud Muslim and True Beleiver of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) [color=green] 8. I do not have access to the complete information about the donations and your anger at AliSina shows in your calling him a "Bastard". The anger you exhibit is the reason why I choose not to write my real name. I live among muslims, my close family lives among the muslims, my close relatives are still "true" muslims, many of my friends are still "true" muslims and I do not want to endager a lot of people I love by writing my name that I use away from FFI. At FFI, I am "Doubtless". Doubtless A kaafir who is filled with doubts and ready to accept Islam if convinced that Islam is the true religion of God.[/color]