Indonesia: Muslim civil servants obliged to read Koran

So whats the point? Reading books increases knowledge and the Quran is one of the most powerful books that was ever reveal to humanity. So many educated people converting to Islam. I agree, people should read and understand the Quran.

Dont stop people from gaining knowledge. But please FFI (fabrication of facts) stop this business of fabricating facts.

Don't you see the point? The evils written in the qu'ran,being FORCED to read it...Thats OBVIOUSLY not good.

The Qur'an is a horrible book written by Muhammad the Mass murderer, ghostwriting for his idol Allah. The knowledge to be found there is the knowledge to murder people who do not want to convert to your so called religion of peace. Read Sura 8 and 9. Rational people should read philosophical and scientific books in order to enlighten themselves in stead of the arrant superstitious nonsense of phony prophet Mo. The only reason to read the qur'an is obtaining knowledge to refute the claims of Mo's adherents.
One of the most used arguments of muslims is that you have to read Islamic texts in Arabic in order to understand it. Since a majority of Indonesians like most non Arab muslims, do not speak let alone read Arabic they have to resort to a translation or to learn unintelligible Arabic texts by heart. Learning incomprehensible texts by heart is stupid and futile and does not increase knowledge one bit. The use of a translation is rejected by muslim apologists as a pretext to keep the unbelievers in the dark..

Nut, Mmmmm , HM, Are you on drugs always ?. Please tell me when you are in your senses , we can discuss about your death cult.

DUDE massha ALLAH they have to compulsory read quran what the luck man they have i also wana be working with that organisation i dont get time in my work n for that work u have to read compulsory M really jaleous of those guys plz man swap my position I believe they are the luckiest person

HM=HUMAN MORON.
Quraan increases knowledge?!?!? not a single arab and muslim university is on the top 200.read times magazine best 200 universities.
Qurran is writen in arabic,indonisians are not arabs to understand the contradictions in the Quraan.
QURAAN says earth is flat with 4 corners!!! is it so, knowledge my foot,Quraan says that the man sperm lives in the back bone,sperm lives in the man testicles,knowledge my foot.QURAAN says about the devolepment of the fetus first the bones then the skin what a joke ,the fetus grows entirly togather bones,skin,organsand so on, probably by know you now why there is not a single islamic university on the list.your muhammad liked his daughter in law,to be his seual slave to the point he prohibited adoption,there is 2 million street children walking the streets of egypt,islam does not allow adoption,do you see any humanity in this crime,what fabrications??!!??QURAANwas not revealed but writen by poets and took 23 years to be completed coz muhammad died if he lived longer spiderman jipreel{waraqa ben nofal} would,ve kept spoon feeding him satanic versus,muslims are a burden on the world communities,there is nothing the muslims produce ,so we can boycott their products,nada big ZERO.ALL THE ISLAMIC MOSQUES in reality are mental buildings for the insane,the Quraan point blank tells the muslims not to ask questions,do not use your free mind,just follow blindly,again knowledge my foot,by the way HM use your right foot when you enter the bathroom coz al-shitan the devil uses his left one,thats right muhaMAD is the devil. sorry, time to go my little dog muhammad is barking time to feed him loves his pork chops

the mufti,
Funny you should just mention education in Arab countries. I was just reading an article in The Economist that was talking about the low achievement levels in Arab countries. In Arab schools 31% of the time is devoted to religious studies while only 20% to math and science.
http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2009/10/arab-education-lag-alarmin...
The Emirates Economist: Arab education lag "alarming"

Muslims,
Please read the link in message 28353 and tell me what good is Islam?
Islam has turned you into backward, cruel, immoral and violent people. What good is Islam?

Why your posting show how illiterate you are. The Koran has been such powerful book...it rules over so many Muslim nations. You people are negative minded. The Koran is a book which is worthwhile to read...why do u want people to stop gaining knowledge huh? You'r so pathetic that you cant accept positive things.

HM.......,I AM AN ARAB,you say read Quraan I ,VE read it 7 times plus hadeeth bukhari,moslem,plus tafaseer ibn katheer,tabari and others,in conclusion its just a regular book,not holy or divine,muhammad stole all the stories in the Quraan from the jewish story books,like king solomon and the talking ants,also the story of jhona survive 3 days in the belly of a whale,ADAM,S height 60 feet and width 6 feet thats how allah created him,do you believe in such a myth this stuff is in the Quraan.to me one thousand night and one night is better literature,you know HM..that muhammad at a young age was sexualy abused by his cousin,do you understand why muhammad was a sexual deviant man,abused a6 years old girl aisha,a pedophile now a days are put in jail hospitals.and took by force his daughter in law zinab,think about your father takes your wife away.crazy isn,t it.islam is not a religion but a cult,in religion you worship god,cults worship the cult leader,in this case muhammad is the leader,allah is his partner,without mentioning muhammads name no one enters the islamic whore house,muslims like to call it jana or paradise,for instance,if you say LA ILLAH ILA ALAHA NOT GOOD ENOUGH, NO PARADISE FOR YOU YOU HAVE TO SAY AND MUHAMMAD RASOOL ILAHA,moe and allah in the same sentence,this is called SHIRK,DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF SHIRK.
reading QURAAN is bad for non speaking arabic people its very hard to understanded if you are not an arab translated version is even worse,americans are looking for water on the moon planet ,and sending missions to mars,you muslims are not going back withyour Quraan to the stone age,in reality muslims never left the stone age era,there is a fatwa by an islamic shiek in saudi barbaria if any person say earth is not flat capitol punishment awaits that person,the name of the shiek iS BEN PAZ,fatwa was issued in 1978.

i am indonesian
we read the Koran everyday,..although the Koran was written in Arabic we learned to read and understand the meaning ... we also interpret into Indonesian language... there is no reason to seek the truth

To the Mufti :

Does it matter whether you are an Arab or not. There are also Non-Muslim Arabs in Saudi. There a billions of Arabs who read Quran and study the Prohet (pbuh) and accept Islam as their religion. There r also many Christian Arabs. IT doesnt matter whether ur an Arab or not. Whatever ur mentioning in ur post is your opinion.

Quran is the most powerful book in history. It ruled so many governments and nations. It makes people convert to Islam. So why do u say that gaining knowledge by reading Quran is bad. In Islam, gaining knowledge is Jihad.

to HM: muslims in my country using violence to teror non muslims people!!! like muhammad n quran did it before,,,!! i wanna ask u what the different between muslim and gangster,,, ??? nothing different always use violence to defend n teror!! what muhhamad can do,,, can he show something miracle like JESUS did it!! why muslims cant see they prophet,,,,???? what inside the kaabah,, just black stone and the muslims morons are around it,,, so fuk up!!

to HM.you are a nice person,i appreciate your modern discussion,however you say there is billions of arabs!! no my friend thre is only 275 million arabs in the middle east,98%muslims.historicaly we were not arabs ,egyptions are pharaonics,iraqis are babylonians spoke aramiac,great syria{palestine,jordan,lebanon,syria}were canninitesand phoenicians,all of them were criminally attacked by the muslim barbarians they murdered all the men,saved some to sell into slavery so they can buy weapons,like sowrds and horses,women became sexual slaves,boys with pupic hair also were murdered,pay attention HM you kill in self defence,you murder coz you are a barbarian,so muslims are all over the world murdering innocent people,this is your QURAAN,murder,murder,and murder i CHALLENGE you to find me the word LOVE in the miserable Quraan,only curses and murder and rape,pedophilia,slavery ,high way robberies so on and so forth,SHARIA LAW is the true weapon of mass destruction,there was no such thing pakistan ,was a country called india,look at the indians,high-tech advanced democracy,then again look at pakistan backward,filthy with taliban vampires cave dwellers caused by your Quraan,thousands in the arab world are leaving islam per year, let me know if you are able to read arabic so i can post hundred of their blogs,coz we understand our culture better than the none arabs indonisians&pakistanis,read RIFQA,S story at this site,tell us your opinion,should she go free or send her to osama bin laden to make fire wood out of her body,islam is a cancer NOT an answer by all means

Hm Comment ID #28262
"So whats the point? Reading books increases knowledge and the Quran is one of the most powerful books that was ever reveal to humanity. So many educated people converting to Islam. I agree, people should read and understand the Quran."
The point is that people are being FORCED to read the Koran.
You are quite right about "reading books increases knowledge" and I have no problem whatsoever with people reading books (assuming they have good scholarship where appropriate that is, or else that the reader is critical of what s/he reads), but I do object to people being forced to read any book.
It is a matter of freedom and personal choice.
---
"Dont stop people from gaining knowledge. But please FFI (fabrication of facts) stop this business of fabricating facts."
Setting aside the point that saying "fabricating facts" is to utter an oxymoron, what 'facts' are fabricated?
We might argue interpretation, but I think that the actual data (Koran/Hadith quotes etc) are facts. Indeed most often I'd argue that the authors are scrupulous in giving the quotes(facts) they use.

To those who believe in Islam, I say this:

I have read the Quran, well, I have read about 10% of it, I was unable to continue, I felt physically sick. Honest.

Now, let's just be hypothetical for a moment, let's say that Islam is correct, ok? Well, my point is this: the god depicted in the Quran is possibly the most evil being ever to exist, and his prophet is not much better. You say the Quran is good? It contains only hatred, violence and fear. Anyway, my point is this: even if it IS real, why on earth would you pray to such a being? Why would you follow his words? Is the reason you do this so that you can go to heaven? Even if Islam was correct and I believed in Allah, I STILL wouldn't pray to him for the sole reason that he is an evil bastard. I would rather go to Hell than support such a being.

But that is just assuming that it IS correct, did you know that (to my knowledge at least) NO religion is compatible with any other religion? ESPECIALLY not Islam, which is so horribly different to even Christianity or the Jewish religion. This means that (assuming one religion on earth IS correct), that NO MATTER WHAT you believe (yes that's you too muslims), you have about a 95% chance of believing in the wrong religion and going to Hell, not good odds. Now before you say "oh but my religion IS the right one!" I ask you this: what do the OTHER religions say? Don't they say the same thing? "Mine IS the right one!" So what makes you more correct? Nothing does, you're the same as anybody else. Which means that you have an incredibly small chance of going to heaven, and you believe in this one religion because of what, one man said it was true?

Here's one, there is only one god, he is called George, he told me all of what I am about to tell you last night when he spoke to me through a magical frog. He created the earth a million and two years ago out of pepper corns and some water he found in an old bottle in his house (god's house but don't question god or you will be sent to hell). Now, George wants every human to believe in him, he does not need to provide a reason, he is god, do not question him. If you do not believe in him you will go to Hell. All religions in the world are false and sent to test us, those who believe in them will go to hell. The brave and pure (and only them) will know of the true god George or will find him at some point in their life and will believe in him and pray to him and then go to heaven when they die. If you do not believe in George it is because you are an evil non-believer and will be tormented for all eternity in Hell where you belong. Those reading this, trust in and pray to George so that he may spare you and let you go to heaven!!! George could easily make us all believe in him and spread the only true faith created by him and told by me, but instead he lets his followers do, it is a great honour to spread the Georgian faith and those who do will be well rewarded in heaven.

Do you believe me? No? Honest? But you'll go to Hell!! Ah well, the thing is, what I just did is what the Islamic prophet did, so why is he right? couldn't he have just been a man like me? I mean, I could have gone back in time and killed him and taken his place (secretly so nobody knew, let's just say I have really good makeup :D) and said whatever I liked and people would believe me because I was Mohammad. See where I'm coming from? Now of course, you're probably not even listening by now, you've probably closed your mind to what I'm saying, after all, you must not question god or Mohammad right?

Oh by the way, I have read enough of and about the Quran to know the religion enough to comment on it here, don't you even think about saying "but you didn't read it all ... in Arabic!" lol :) I've read summaries and descriptions and interpretations and spoken with Muslims etc etc etc.

Interesting topic about my country,
You guys don't get fooled by the propaganda of Islam that is saying indonesia is the largest moeslem country. Statistically indonesia moeslem now are 75% (decrease from 90% since 1990s). That is also untrue, because government force people to put their religion in their ID while the government only accept Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, Budhism, and Islam. Meanwhile there are many indonesian following other religion such as Kejawen (original Java spiritual teaching mostly influenced by Hinduism and Budhism), Konghucu, and many more. So to avoid any dificulties in their life's paper work usually they don't care about the religion in their ID, this automatically will be written as Islam by the authority.
Another thing about indonesia is, thanks to Islam indonesian people neglect their cultural heritage from their ancestor and even islam try to demolish all cultural building (mostly from Hindu and Budhism architecture because indonesia used to be hindu and Budhism before islam terorrized people to convert to islam about 500 years ago) but they screaming when Malaysia (indirectly) claim the Balinese dance as their culture, they protest when Malaysia claim that they have a traditional weapon called "Keris" which is actually belong to indonesia. In real life they don't care about their own rich cultural heritage and simply import the nonsense arab culture.
To HM, just for your info, indonesia now suffer plenty of natural disaster and most of them happen in the central moeslem population. Aceh tsunami killed more than 200 thousand people, West Java tsunami in killed hundreds, Jogja earth quake killed more than 5 thousand, the most recent one is West Sumatera quake killed nearly 0ne thousand (but CNN said the victims more than 4 thousand). I am not saying that I am happy to see my moeslem fellow suffering, but what question me is when there is a disaster like this, it is always the non moeslem people and country who helped the victims at the first place. Where is saudi arabia which is moeslem bow their head down 5 times a day and that the moeslem must spend their life safing to do haj just to make the petro rich saudi to become more rich and indonesian moeslem more suffering. Do you know what the indonesian radical islam follower say about the disaster? Because Indonesia do not apply sharia, the islamic law, so allah is upset and make disaster. What a foolish thinking that is.
In Gorontalo they force the public servant to read qoran, but when the Papua people try to implement the Christian rule in the government, moeslem say that is not fair because indonesia is a seculer country.

Please don't say that reading quran will give more knowledge, that make me laughing. Quran say earth is flat and the moon & sun orbiting the earth, that you called knowledge. Please open your mind and try to read other religion holy book and compare with your quran. Do not blindly believe in such a book, that is only a book that is firstly printed out in modern machine about 79 years ago in egypt. This universe is so complicated and unimaginably vast so the creator must be more complicated and powerfull, how can this powerfull creator of this complex universe could be confined in such a small silly book called quran? Only to learn physics we need thousands of book and years of learning, and physics is only fraction of knowledge to learn the universe.

to The Mutfi,

Thank you for complimenting me.

You claim that you have researched the Quran, Hadis and all Islamic holy books right? So can you challenge anything against Islam?

Secondly, a fool like you will recommend people not to read books. For example: The Quran.

You said Islam is a cancer. Please give a scientific proof.

This hm (houri monger?) is as bad and as foolish as The Big Fat Lie masquerading as the Truth.
I too have read the Qur'an, Ibn Ishaq's Sira, parts of Bukhari, Muslim, Malik's Muwatta, Sunan Abu Dawood. The impression I get from these writings is of barbarity, primitivism, backwardness, bloodlust, stupid superstition, an oversexed bogus prophet having difficulties to control his dick, a greedy bogus prophet stealing an expensive robe, downright foolishness (the sun setting in a muddy pond), thievery, a bogus prophet burning down the mosque of people he didn't approve of, etc., etc., etc. This is just a small sample of the horrors that can be found in the texts of islam who thrives on a majority of illiterate muminin, who cannot read the texts by themselves and have to depend on the expertise of their ulamas.

HM.
i am a book fanatic,by all means i like to see muslims read books,like reading harry potter,versus reading the scary book of terror and horror.al-QURAAN.
osama bin laden once was a nice baby grew up reading the book of terror and VOILA his brain cells has been damaged by the cancerous satanic versus of your morally repugnant Quraan.
the proof is in the pudding,osama,s becoming a retard blood thirsty vampire.
this is my scientific theory about the calcified muslim mind,after reading the garbage written in the Quraan

To The Mufti:

His brains got damaged? Really? I would like to know how. Please tell me. I also read the Quran sometimes and I find it worthwhile to read it. Please explain me how a person would get brain cancer by reading Quran. If u cant give me a logical answer, I would say because the Quran is so powerful and talks about the truth, bad people dislike accepting the truth.

And by the way, how do u know so much about Bin Laden ? Was he actually responsible for 9/11? Do u have a proof for that? Was he a real Muslim?

Harry potter is a fiction. The Quran is used by many scientists for various purposes. Harry Potter is an artificial man-made story whereas The Quran has been logically and scientifically proved that it can NOT be mad-made. Please explain, dont bark unnecesarily. or maybe ur just to scared to admit the truth because ur ego is more important than the truth.

are you a muslim? dont you even KNOW that osama bin laden is a real muslim? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden
he didn't mean cancer as in BRAIN CANCER. its like ur stick with islam and u cant get away with it until u die. theres nothing you can do. if you did try to leave islam, u'll be called an apostate n be KILLED.
how bout YOU prove to us that quran is LOGICAL and scientifically proven since we have done everything in telling you about this but unfortunately, ur brain is.. i dont know.. dysfunctional?
you have the quran so why dont u read it and tell me in what way it is satisfying in feeding your knowledge? you have one at home right? ur wasting your time here.

islam is like cancer cells it takes years to removed completely to the host body.

To: to hm

Well...u think Quran is illogical...please get a brain check-up. Not even a Non-Muslim scientist would say that. I advice u to start researching about Quran...u will understand the truth about Quran.

Oh and about Bin Laden...how do u know he is a real Muslim..Is he an actor? .did u see him praying 5 times a day? If u did.....please give me a proper evidence.

HM

If a non-Muslim scientist said that the Quran is a piece of garbage in public,I'm sure he'd be hunted down.

BTW

Bin Laden is a Muhammad wannabee.He might have come close to emulating your prophet but he was nowhere as evil as Muhammad.
Actually,Muhammad was proudly one of (if not the) most evil people that have set foot on this planet.
But then on the other hand,Muhammad was a Allah a.k.a Satan wannabee.
Surely this is the most vile of all creatures in the Universe & all it's dimensions.

HM , that is the meaning of the following -- To me , it seems a very peaceful Sura, How about you ?

(And the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Verily, my people deserted this Qur'an.'') (25:30). This is the view of Ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, Mujahid and Qatadah, and this is how Ibn Jarir interpreted it. Al-Bukhari said: "`Abdullah -- meaning Ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him -- recited (Ayah 88 of Az-Zukhruf): (وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ ياربِّ) (And the Messenger will say: "O my Lord!'') Mujahid said concerning the Ayah:

﴿وَقِيلِهِ يرَبِّ إِنَّ هَـؤُلاَءِ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يُؤْمِنُونَ ﴾

(And his saying: "O my Lord! Verily, these are a people who believe not!'') "Allah is stating what Muhammad said.'' Qatadah said, "These are the words of your Prophet , when he complained about his people to his Lord.''

﴿فَاصْفَحْ عَنْهُمْ﴾

(So turn away from them, ) means, from the idolators.

﴿وَقُلْ سَلَـمٌ﴾

(and say Salam (peace!)) means, `do not respond to them in the same evil manner in which they address you; but try to soften their hearts and forgive them in word and deed.'

﴿فَسَوْفَ يَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(But they will come to know.) This is a warning from Allah for them. His punishment, which cannot be warded off, struck them, and His religion and His word was supreme. Subsequently Jihad and striving were prescribed until the people entered the religion of Allah in crowds, and Islam spread throughout the east and the west. And Allah knows best. This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Az-Zukhruf.

Above is Taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir -

Tafsir Arp to Tafsir Ibn Kathir - ( My explanation - I believe TAFSIR means explanation)

(and say Salam (peace!)) means, `do not respond to them in the same evil manner in which they address you; but try to soften their hearts and forgive them in word and deed.'

++DO not insult the idolators with your words and and show them your true intention. (Make them believe you are peaceful guy) ,

(But they will come to know.) This is a warning from Allah for them. His punishment, which cannot be warded off, struck them, and His religion and His word was supreme. Subsequently Jihad and striving were prescribed until the people entered the religion of Allah in crowds, and Islam spread throughout the east and the west. And Allah knows best. This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Az-Zukhruf.

++Go back home , Take sword,Knife (AK47) , go and kill the Idolator when he least expects you and take his Wife and daughters (for your use) and sons to be sold as Slaves.
Really ALLA is very cleaver. He must be a real god , see how he guides the believer. the believer can enjoy the girls(ALLA has given them) . By selling the boys , you will get rich also - ALLAHU AKBER.

To Santiago,

This is really good. How come u know so much about Bin Laden. Were u in the same terrorist group with him? Did u see him in your own eyes that He copied our Messenger? Did u see him being a proper Muslim. Please show me some evidence. I dont believe in ur stupid filthy baseless non-evident claims.

There r too many non-Muslim scientist existing. Muslims will hunt dowm a non-Muslim scientist if he lies around. If he makes a claim about Islam...he has to prove his claim scientifically otherwise he will be called a liar for lying things about Islam

HM, Even I can say where is the evidence that your Pimp ALLA created this world and the Pedo is his prophet?
You are making "filthy baseless non-evident claims" .Can you prove to us that your Sadist ALLAH has created this earth , don't give me circular reasoning .. I say, Brahma created the whole world Not ALLA, Now Prove me that Your sadist ALLA created this world.

To Arp:

The reason is the Messenger (SWT) and the Quran. this is the proof.