Geert Wilders's (Video) speech in California

To preserve Democracy, Decent society, Humanity and most of all world peace : every democratic countries must appreciate the way the great "Geert Wilders " is fighting the epidemic called Evil Islam.

Evil, destructive, dangerous, rapidly lethal,inhuman, oppressive, bastardised epidemic called islam.Not just epidemic.This lethal weapon is instantaneously lethal to free speech and freedom.

Greet Wilders is a lion. He is the one who openly talks about the vile islam.
This gives me inspiration , and i tell my friends about it. I think instead of just reading these blog posts to ourselves we should talk about these articles to our friends and family members. Spread awareness about Human Islamic Virus(HIV).

Even if education has been successful in persuading people that the Muslim behaves differently than we are, and that his manner, his nature, thinking, etc., remain so even after a long stay in the West, one encounters the reply that that really does not mean much.
In fact, the Muslim problem is a population problem that has surfaced over the decades in one European region followed by another and now has entered America. One can speak of a certain degree of saturation with the Muslim population in individual regions with visible symptoms. Once this degree of saturation is reached or exceeded, there is visible islam related violence and demand for Sharia, and the affected non-Islamic peoples always take such defensive measures as Mr. Wilders. They attempt to reduce Muslim influence and try to protect their freedom, to hinder Muslim corruption of their cultural and life, or try to reverse it if it has already occurred.
Often, the first step is a clear realization that the Islam is a foreign, destructive ideology. This appears to be happening now in the Netherlands. Those countries like Belgium, not simultaneously affected by the virulent islam tend to misunderstand these defensive measures, and as far as it is in their political interests, or to the extent that they are under influence of Muslim Vote-banks, speak of "barbarism” or take measures like banning the entry of individuals like Mr Wilders. When the muslim population grows there too, the whole course of events often repeats itself. But intriguing feature is the appearance of such defensive measures in countries like Britain (as said by Mr. Wilders) because it has moved way beyond vote-banks threatening its very national character now— and thus the misunderstandings on Islam continue and Islam marches on.
Don`t give up Mr Wilders!

Whevener I listen to the song Hotel California, I am reminded of my former religion. You can get in but you can't get out. Its like a Mafia of 1.2 billion people which each one trying to be a better slave of the Big Boss whose's part if played by the arabic deity allah.
Everday of his the member of this large mafia commits some crime for his big boss, allah. So that he may be pleased and reward him with women and sexual orgies combined with a a pardise full of wine.

#5 Muhammad knew what was needed to entice his thugs to kill and be killed. Most of all they wanted sex from male and female, wine, and many women.
He promised them 72 white virgins and 28 white boys and rivers of wine in paradise.

When the Jews and Christians refused to follow him and make him their prophet and messiah, he ordered them killed and enslaves. They laughed at him as they knew the messiah would be a Jew.

The Arabs had their prophet so why take the Jewish one and degrade him..

The Vatican almost became a mosque when Muslims invaded Rome and then the Catholics built a wall around the place they now call Vatican City. Muslims are back again!

I mentioned yesterday also that some of you have fasicst views. You all must know that when Europe was devastated after the war, it was muslims who rebuilt it. Islam stands for universal brotherhood and equality. That is why I decided to embrace it. In France, the Islamic brotherhood stood behind rebuilding the nation. Zidan won World Cup for us. You people are very negative. May Allah guide you.

lol, Charlie what are you talking about? Muslims ravaged the cities of France, burnt vehicles, molestation, rapes, mugging, everything is done mostly by Muslims. So what are you talking about that Islam built France.
And Islam does not stand for Universal Brotherhood it stands for brotherhood between Muslims.
Most of us are ex-muslims here, many like me are were born Muslims unlike you. So please teach us as to how Islam teaches love and brotherhood. We would be pleased to know if you have something new to teach us.
You are absolutely lost, may the truth guide you.

One more thing Charlie, take out 10 mins of your rime and take a look at the videos and tell us where you see the brotherhood.

about ZIDANE . He is a non practicing muslim. Imagine if he was a practicing muslim, then instead of playing soccer he would be practicing favourite islamic sport "THE JIHAD" by droping bombs in the stadia.

i read Greet Wilders' speech which i think is absolutly true. i like the part where he says,
"there can be moderate muslims but there is no moderate islam".

Ibrahim, You question because you are misled.
Ibn Kathîr says in his commentary on the Qur’ân: "This verse is used as proof that humanity is preferable as a race to the race of angels." Allah says: "O mankind, verily We created you from a male and a female and made you nations and tribes so you could come to know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you."

This refers to all of humanity: believers and disbelievers, people of lineage and those without, close relatives and distant ones.

You need to take a broad view to understand this.

Shamsher, you are full of hatred and are fascist in views. Please stop talking thus, grow up, read, understand and then comment.

I can quote much more ibn kathir's commentary, stuff that you will be verymuncomfortable answering. You should read the whole of the Quran and read about the biography of the prophet before you comment here.
You are a misguided person who quotes selectively, cherry picking verses out of the quran.
What about the hundreds of verses in the quran asking muslims to kill unbelieves or when the hadith that says that Muslim will kill all Jews. Is this what you call peace and brotherhood.
I am ready to debate you on this topic, if you are willing. You are welcome to the Forum and lets see who is mislead.

Had you read the quran well charlie you would have know that brotherhood in islam is only for muslims.
The Believers are but a single Brotherhood (49:10)

Not all men are equal under Islam. Slaves and the handicapped are not equal to healthy free men, for example (16:75-76). The Qur’an introduces the “Law of Equality,” which establishes different levels of human value when considering certain matters, such as restitution for murder (2:178).

With regard to Islam, the Qur’an tells Muslims that they are a favored race, while those of other religions are “perverted transgressors”:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

The first sura of the Qur'an is an example of this. It is a short prayer that is repeated by devout Muslims each day and ends with these words:

Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (1:6-7)

Muhammad was once asked if these words pertained to Jews and Christians. His response was, "Whom else?" (Bukhari 56:662).

Since Allah makes such a strong distinction between Muslims and those outside the faith, it is only natural that Muslims should incorporate disparate standards of treatment into their daily lives. The Qur’an tells Muslims to be compassionate with one another but ruthless to the infidel:

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… (48:29)

Allah intends for Muslims to triumph over believers:

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

The only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

The Qur’an dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. Verse 2:65 continues the theme.

A hadith says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (Bukhari 54:524, also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than demons who believe in Muhammad.

Read on and let me know, by the way you are just a convert since a few years. My association Islam goes back to a way long time. Being born and bred in an Islamic atmosphere, I definately don't need caohing in Islam from a convert.

Hi Charlie

Please in explain clear, concise language that is factually based as to how Muslims 'rebuilt Europe. To the best of my knowledge it was because of loans from the US which only recently the UK repaid back but perhaps your 'superior' Islamic knowledge may let us know something we don't? Please enlighten us all.

Charlie wrote:

I mentioned yesterday also that some of you have fasicst views. You all must know that when Europe was devastated after the war, it was muslims who rebuilt it. Islam stands for universal brotherhood and equality. That is why I decided to embrace it. In France, the Islamic brotherhood stood behind rebuilding the nation. Zidan won World Cup for us. You people are very negative. May Allah guide you.

It was the Europeans and the U.S. who rebuilt Europe after the war.

Islam stands for equality? Where in the Islamic world do you see men and women working side by side in business, technology, education, and exc.?

Where in the Islamic world do you see Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and exc, working side by side, living in peace and harmony with each other.

Where in the Islamic world is slavery nonexistent?

Samurai_jack wrote:

Hi Charlie

Please in explain clear, concise language that is factually based as to how Muslims ‘rebuilt Europe. To the best of my knowledge it was because of loans from the US which only recently the UK repaid back but perhaps your ’superior’ Islamic knowledge may let us know something we don’t? Please enlighten us all.

Lets not forgot the U.S. government sent our military to Europe to help them reconstruct.

Which brings me to ask these questions to Charlie: Can you name one Islamic country who gave out loans to the Europeans or sent military personnel to help the Europeans rebuilt. Can you name one Islamic country who took part in the war effort to liberate the Europeans and the Jews from the Nazis?

I certainly can't name one Islamic country that took part in the war effort to stop the Nazis, but I can name an influential Mufti who was pretty friendly with Hitler.

From Palestine Facts.

Who was the Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini?
Grand Mufti with Hitler

Grand Mufti with Hitler

Muhammed Amin al-Husseini [many spelling variations] was born in 1893 (or 1895), the son of the Mufti of Jerusalem and member of an esteemed, aristocratic family. The Husseinis were one of the richest and most powerful of all the rivalling clans in the Ottoman province known as the Judaean part of Palestine.

Amin al-Husseini studied religious law at al-Azhar University, Cairo, and attended the Istanbul School of Administration. In 1913 he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage, earning the honorary title of "Haj". He voluntarily joined the Ottoman Turkish army in World War I but returned to Jerusalem in 1917 and expediently switched sides to aid the victorious British. He acquired the reputation as a violent, fanatical anti-Zionist zealot and was jailed by the British for instigating a 1920 Arab attack against Jews who were praying at the Western Wall.

The first Palestine High Commissioner. Sir Herbert Samuel arrived in Palestine on July 1, 1920. He was a weak administrator who was too ready to compromise and appease the extremist, nationalistic Arab minority led by Haj Amin al-Husseini. When the existing Arab Mufti of Jerusalem (religious leader) died in 1921, Samuels was influenced by anti-Zionist British officials on his staff. He pardoned al-Husseini and, in January 1922, appointed him as the new Mufti, and even invented a new title of Grand Mufti. He was simultaneously made President of a newly created Supreme Muslim Council. Al-Husseini thereby became the religious and political leader of the Arabs.

The appointment of the young al-Husseini as Mufti was a seminal event. Prior to his rise to power, there were active Arab factions supporting cooperative development of Palestine involving Arabs and Jews. But al-Husseini would have none of that; he was devoted to driving Jews out of Palestine, without compromise, even if it set back the Arabs 1000 years.

William Ziff, in his book "The Rape of Palestine," summarizes:

* Implicated in the [1920] disturbances was a political adventurer named Haj Amin al Husseini. Haj Amin, was sentenced by a British court to fifteen years hard labor. Conveniently allowed to escape by the police, he was a fugitive in Syria. Shortly after, the British then allowed him to return to Palestine where, despite the opposition of the muslim High Council who regarded him as a hoodlum, Haj Amin was appointed by the British High Commissioner as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for life. [P. 22]

Al-Husseini represented newly emerging proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism, a previously unknown concept. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. Husseini was not willing to negotiate or make any kind of compromise for the sake of peace.

As a young man, al-Husseini worked with a native Jew, Abbady, who documented this comment:

* Remember, Abbady, this was and will remain an Arab land. We do not mind you natives of the country, but those alien invaders, the Zionists, will be massacred to the last man. We want no progress, no prosperity. Nothing but the sword will decide the fate of this country.

In 1929, major Arab riots were instigated against the Jews of Palestine. They began when al-Husseini falsely accused Jews of defiling and endangering local mosques, including al-Aqsa. The call went out to the Arab masses: "Izbah Al-Yahud!" — "Slaughter the Jews!" After the killing of Jews in Hebron, the Mufti disseminated photographs of slaughtered Jews with the claim that the dead were Arabs killed by Jews.

In April, 1936 six prominent Arab leaders formed the Arab Higher Committee, with the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini as head of the organization, joining forces to protest British support of Zionist progress in Palestine. In the same month, riots broke out in Jaffa commencing a three-year period of violence and civil strife in Palestine that is known as the Arab Revolt. The Arab Higher Committee led the campaign of terrorism against Jewish and British targets.

Using the turmoil of the Arab Revolt as cover, al-Husseini consolidated his control over the Palestinian Arabs with a campaign of murder against Jews and non-compliant Arabs, the recruitment of armed militias, and the raising of funds from around the Muslim world using anti-Jewish propaganda. In 1937 the Grand Mufti expressed his solidarity with Germany, asking the Nazi Third Reich to oppose establishment of a Jewish state, stop Jewish immigration to Palestine, and provide arms to the Arab population. Following an assassination attempt on the British Inspector-General of the Palestine Police Force and the murder by Arab extremists of Jews and moderate Arabs, the Arab Higher Committee was declared illegal by the British. The Grand Mufti lost his office of President of the Supreme muslim Council, his membership on the Waqf committee, and was forced into exile in Syria in 1937. The British deported the Arab mayor of Jerusalem along with other members of the Arab Higher Committee.

According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.

In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:

* ... to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy.

While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

* The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution. The Mufti was never tried because the Allies were afraid of the storm in the Arab world if the hero of Arab nationalism was treated as a war criminal.

From Egypt al-Husseini was among the sponsors of the 1948 war against the new State of Israel. Spurned by the Jordanian monarch, who gave the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to someone else, Haj Amin al-Husseini arranged King Abdullah's assassination in 1951, while still living in exile in Egypt. King Tallal followed Abdullah as king of Jordan, and he refused to give permission to Amin al-Husseini to come into Jordanian Jerusalem. After one year, King Tallal was declared incompetent; the new King Hussein also refused to give al-Husseini permission to enter Jerusalem. King Hussein recognized that the former Grand Mufti would only stir up trouble and was a danger to peace in the region.

Haj Amin al-Husseini eventually died in exile in 1974. He never returned to Jerusalem after his 1937 departure. His place as leader of the radical, nationalist Palestinian Arabs was taken by his nephew Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini, better known as Yasser Arafat. In August 2002, Arafat gave an interview in which he referred to "our hero al-Husseini" as a symbol of Palestinian Arab resistance.

Here's more.

The Nazi Roots of Modern Radical Islam

By Tom Knowlton

The recent "Letter to the American People" allegedly authored by Osama bin Laden is a virtual ideological manifesto for Islamic extremists. It serves to outline the perceived grievances of radical Muslims against Israel and the West.

The letter claims, "It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses," dating the conflict between Jews and Arabs back to the Biblical conflict between Abraham's two children: his eldest son, Ishmael (from who Arabs are believed descended), and his younger son, Isaac (from who Jews are believed descended). Some Muslims believe that Isaac usurped Ishmael's birthright.

Likewise, prominent imams such as Abu Qatada, Omar Muhammad Bakri, and Abu Hamza regularly echo this claim that Arabs and Jews have been bitter enemies from the dawn of time.

However, if one examines the history of the Middle East, there is very little evidence of constant warring and animosity between Jews and Arabs.

In fact, when the city of Jerusalem fell to Christian Crusaders in 1099, the defenders of the holy city had been a combined force of Jews and Muslims. After the Crusaders captured the city, they massacred Muslim and Jewish citizens alike and left the survivors to flee Jerusalem. Not until the Muslim hero Saladin defeated the Crusaders in 1187, did the Jewish population even begin to return to Jerusalem.

Jerusalem's Jewish community continued to prosper under the Muslim Nahmanides in 1267. But the community's true renaissance occurred during the 15th and 16th centuries, when a large influx of Jews were welcomed into Jerusalem by the Ottoman Empire after being expelled from Spain.

For four centuries under Ottoman rule, Arab and Jewish neighborhoods peacefully coexisted. After the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, the region came under British mandate. The early days under the British also saw relatively peaceful coexistence continuing and manifesting itself in the form of Arab and Jewish neighborhoods springing up in the "garden neighborhoods" of Talpiot, Rehavia and Beit Hakerem.

However, after over 700 years of peaceful coexistence, the true start of the Arab-Israeli conflict can be dated to 1920 and the rise of one man, Haj Amin Muhammad Al Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem. As grand mufti, al Husseini presided as the Imam of the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, the highest Muslim authority in the British mandate.

History shows Al Husseini to be a brutal man with aspirations to rule a pan-Arabic empire in the Middle East. He rose to prominence by actively eliminating those Jews and Arabs he considered a threat to his control of Jerusalem's Arab population, and he heavily utilized anti-Jewish propaganda to polarize the two communities.

In 1920 and again in 1929, Al Husseini incited anti-Jewish riots by claiming the Jews were plotting to destroy the Al Asqa mosque. The riots resulted in the massacre of hundreds of Jewish civilians and a virtual end to the Jewish presence in Hebron.

The 1936 Arab revolt against the British is believed to have been at least partially funded by Nazi Adolf Eichmann, and Al Husseini again ordered armed Arab militias to massacre Jewish citizens.

When British authorities finally quelled the rebellion in 1939, Al Husseini fled to neighboring Iraq and helped to orchestrate a 1941 anti-British jihad. As in Jerusalem, the British successfully put down the rebellion and Al Husseini fled to Nazi Germany.

Al Husseini found the Nazis to be a strong ideological match with his anti-Jewish brand of Islam, and schemed with Hitler and the Nazi hierarchy to create a pro-Nazi pan-Arabic form of government in the Middle East.

Dr. Serge Trifkovic documents the similarities between Al Husseini's brand of radical Islam and Nazism in his book The Sword of the Prophet. He noted parallels in both ideologies: anti-Semitism, quest for world dominance, demand for the total subordination of the free will of the individual, belief in the abolishment of the nation-state in favor of a "higher" community (in Islam the umma or community of all believers; in Nazism, the herrenvolk or master race), and belief in undemocratic governance by a "divine" leader (an Islamic caliph, or Nazi führer).

The Nazis provided Al Husseini with luxurious accommodations in Berlin and a monthly stipend in excess of $10,000. In return, he regularly appeared on German radio touting the Jews as the "most fierce enemies of Muslims," and implored an adoption of the Nazi "final solution" by Arabs. After the Nazi defeat at El Alamein in 1942, Al Husseini broadcast radio messages on Radio Berlin calling for continued Arabic resistance to Allied forces. In time, he came to be known as the "Fuhrer's Mufti" and the "Arab Fuhrer."

In March 1944, Al Husseini broadcast a call for a jihad to "kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion."

On numerous occasions, Al Husseini intervened in the fate of European Jews, most notably blocking Adolph Eichmann's deal with the Red Cross to exchange Jewish children for German POWs.

Moreover, Al Husseini personally recruited Bosnia Muslims for the German Waffen SS, including the Skanderberg Division from Albania and Hanjer Division from Bosnia. The Hanjer (Saber) Division of the Waffen SS was responsible for the murder of over 90 percent of the Yugoslavian Jewish population.

SS leader Heinrich Himmler was so pleased with Al Husseini's Muslim Nazis that he established the Dresden-based Mullah Military School for their continued recruitment and training. In 1944, Hanjer commandos parachuted into Tel Aviv and poisoned drinking wells in Jewish communities in an effort to stir up ethnic tensions.

After the fall of Nazi Germany, Al Husseini fled to Cairo, Egypt in 1946 rather than face war crime charges for his actions in Yugoslavia. But he continued his operations.

In the late 1940s and early 1950s, Al Husseini worked closely with a pro-fascist group in Egypt called Young Egypt. In 1952 Gamal Abdul Nasser, a prominent member of Young Egypt, was among military officers who seized control of the Egyptian government from King Fu'ad. Al Husseini is reported to have been responsible for bringing Otto Skorzeny, the Nazi commando once labeled by the OSS as "the most dangerous man in Europe," into the employ of the Nasser government.

Similarly, Al Husseini had a strong influence over the founding members of both the Iraqi and Syrian Ba'ath party. Strong evidence exists that al Husseini was instrumental in the arranging of Nazi war criminal Alois Brunner's employment as an advisor to the Syrian general staff.

However, al Husseini's central role in the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964 is perhaps his most indelible mark on the Middle East today.

The radical Imam was the spiritual mentor of the first chairman of the PLO, Ahmed Shukairi, and saw that much of his ideology was instilled in the organization. More importantly, Al Husseini used his extensive connections to recruit financial supporters for the PLO throughout the Arab world.

Almost 30 years after al Husseini's death in 1974, the Palestinian people still revere him as a hero and embrace his radical theology. The "Arab Fuhrer's" close Nazi association and virulent anti-Semitism is perhaps the reason that Hitler's Meinf Kampf is ranked as the sixth all-time bestseller among Palestinian Arabs.

Several of his descendants remain active in Palestinian affairs today.

Al Husseini's grandson, Faisal Husseini, was part of the PLO since 1964 and served as minister without portfolio in the Palestinian National Authority, with responsibility for Jerusalem until his death in May 2001.

The radical imam's nephew, Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el Husseini, has been a major player in Palestinian terrorism for almost 40 years. He was the guiding force behind the merging of the Fatah faction into the PLO. In 1990, Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el Husseini was responsible for the Palestinian community's support of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait.

Most Mideast observers today recognize the younger Al Husseini by the secular name he adopted as his own in 1952, Yasser Arafat.

By the late 1980's many of the PLO's radical Muslim financiers had become disillusioned with the increasingly secular nature of the Palestinian movement. Yasser Arafat's support of Saddam Hussein in the early 1990s strongly angered and prompted many of these extremists in the Persian Gulf states to reduce or all together withdraw their financial backing of the PLO.

An astute emerging Sunni terrorist, Osama bin Laden, capitalized upon Arafat's political misstep and transformed his al Qaeda organization into the prime recipient of financial support from Sunni Muslim radicals. That funding has enabled bin Laden to wage terrorist attacks on western and Israeli interests for over a decade. His most recent "Letter to the American People" echoed al Husseini's propaganda claim that "the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al Aqsa mosque."

The is little doubt that throughout history the Arabs and Jews have encountered the kind of friction that comes from any two distinct religious or ethnic groups sharing the same geography. However, that history has largely been one of relatively peaceful coexistence.

The divergence from that pattern occurs in 1920 with the rise of a virulent anti-Semitic mufti of Jerusalem whose ideology embodied more similarities to that of Nazi Germany than to the historical Islam of Saladin or the Ottoman Turks.

The wave of extremist Islam that has plagued the world in the latter days of the 20th century and into the opening days of the 21st, has little to do with ancient history or Islam. The cause lays largely at the feet of Haj Amin Muhammad Al Husseini, who utilized murder and anti-Semitism to consolidate his power over his fellow Arabs and further his personal quest to be caliph of the pan-Arab world.

To my good brother in Humanity Charlie..Greetings brother
I have been searching for a while for a good religion. I am almost there to become a good Muslim like you. But, i have a couple of questions, if you can help me with. I am sure you have the right answers to guide me. Here are the my questions brother:
1. Look at this Hadith brother. my question follows the hadith:
Bukhari 3.34.432: Narrated Abu Saeed Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.
Question: Don't you think Muhammad is approving of rape here? All he was worried about is to convince the men not to pull out their male part before ejaculation.

2. Look at this hadith my brother Charlie:

Muslim, Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

My question here is: Muhammad is clearly a pedophile. Isn't he?

I have one more question brother.
3. Look:
Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says �was brought�) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going to a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, Do you know that if we find you have it (the treasure) I shall kill you? He said, Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest (of the treasure?) he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, Torture him until you extract what he has. So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud

Question: Don't you think that Muhammad tortured this man, when he could have chosen a much better course of action.

I have one more question Charlie, but I'll wait for your answers on the above, so I can embrace "The religion of peace" where Muhammad made around 80 attacks on other tribes in less than ten years. That Fu***n Bastard was no more than an evil criminal.
In any case, I await your answers so I can embrace that great religion you are telling us about.
Sincerely, Your brother, Ibn Kammuna

All moslems are deluded and those who get converted are more deluded, but by accident and not intention are non moslems and by natural law of attraction of deluded forces by islam, ultimately gravitate towards this evil cult called islam.
Day in and day out this pimp allah is encouraging the foot soldiers to kill kafirs in the name of maha loud ah mohammad and pimp allah and evil islam.
But to the deluded mind that is not a fascist action.How deluded.this chappy is.
Those with violent tendencies, thoise criminals, pedophiles, thieves,rapists, cunning cheating lying bastards, child molesters, incestuous bastards and all sorts of anti social elements find islam quite attractive.Ultimately only people in Islam will be the above group

Ibrahim, you musn`t cherrypick and consider the matter as whole in its totality. I am sure you would agree in the aftermath when wisdom dawns on you at last.

Mr Ibn Kamunna, You might like to discard Hadiths and focus only on Qu`ran. Listen to the verses with the eternal poetry in it and then the meaning, you will then get the correct picture.

Marie, You need more schooling I guess. Whatever you have written has nothing of your own.

It is ingrate Europeans who have lost their broad perspective and are cowed down by the American propaganda that fail to recognize, let alone appreciate the truthfulness. America gave money under Marshall Plan, but who did the actual work for the Europeans? Insofar as I undersatnd, there were hardly any healthy youth left in Europe after the war. Those who were left were mostly in white collar or supervisory roles.

Charlie, brother
You can't ignore the Hadith. Some Muslims do, but they are mistaken. Hadith is the only way (in addition to the Sirat) that tells us how islam was lived and practiced, and how Muhammad lived (he was a gangster). So, all you are doing is ignoring the challenges i gave you without any rational answer (this is typical of true Muslims by the way).
Second, I know Arabic. It is my mother tongue. The Qur'an is eternal poetry you say? My God, you are definitely lost man. The Qur'an is a boring book to read that is replete with grammatical errors, scientific errors, linguistic errors and full of contradictions. Check out the articles by Mumin Salih and Ali Sina in this regard.
Here is one link (there are many):
http://www.islam-watch.org/MuminSalih/How-Arabs-Hated-Quran.htm

By the way, you are mistaken about the whole history of Islam man. Muslims attacked the roman empire and took over the middle east, then did the same in North Africa. Wherever they went, destruction and famine followed. get your facts straight brother.
Having said all that, I still believe the Qur'an is a very useful book. here is a link proving that for you brother Charlie:

http://www.islam-watch.org/Kammuna/Quran-Good-Useful-Book.htm

take care brother

Charlie, I was thinking how I would have defended my faith had I been a Muslim...just trying to put myself in your shoes...

This world and its creatures were created by allah with one sole purpose - to worship allah and allah alone...and how?

by following the 5 faith pillars...

the main drive in my life would have been to rake in as many non-muslims into my faith-wagon by all means possible...

it would have been my dream to see the entire population converted to the religion of submission to allah (mohammed, but he is no more, so what is the point?)...what would I have gained personally in the end?

another question to you, as a Muslim do you really believe in the 72 houris and 28 gilmans in heaven for allah's warriors? do you really crave for them? why then do you go to such extremes to defend your faith?

how long can you continue like this with a lid over your conscience?

why don't you just try reading some non-muslim literature...you can make a start with the Zen stories...

Charlie, let the thoughts in your mind spiral outwards...try to connect to every nook and corner of the universe...its a wonderful journey for the mind...very uplifting, inspiring, and enlightening...

At least try to be free of opinions and speculations, beliefs and dogmas...justifications and condemnations...

learn to love yourself and unravel the little mysteries in you...untie the knots in your little brain...

Start with Zen...Zen parables provide a lot of fodder for the mind..

why are you afraid of allah...see, I'm not...(yes, but lets be wary of the treachory that lurks in the human heart!)...and if he can't do anything to me he can't do anything to you either...

come on man, start with being honest to yourself...

start with Zen...Zen stories will offer profound insights into your own human nature, the cosmos, and spirituality...

Charlie, its you who is cherry picking. I can show you thousands of sahih hadiths which support my statements.
I gave you various example from the Quran which prove that all men are not equal under islam while you merely quoted one verse.
Futhermore, may I ask you by what authority do you ask others to discard hadiths when all Sunni schools support the hadiths. A large part of the sunnah is derived from the hadiths. So if you don;t believe in the hadiths they you might as well not believe in Muhammad's prophethood, bcos the haidths and the sira are the only two sources from were we can learn about Muhammad.

One more thing, if you can kindly bring more evidences of what you are saying from the Quran and the hadiths, then lets see who is right and who is wrong.

Let me reiterate the points with out getting tired.The moslems are not tired of raping , killing,lying, cheating etc and why should I give up?
Moslems have the same brain dead pattern of supporting the filth called qrand and the rapist called maha loud ah mohammad.
1.You are quoting out of context.Quote the verse before and verse after.
2.Ahh you are cherry picking the verses instead of quoting the entire qrand,
3.You must know arabic to understand the deeper inner meaning.
4.You must know classical arabic to interprete what's in qrand.the beauty of the crap qrand is not easily perceivable by the kafirs
5.Ahh but you must be a believer first.
6.The qrand is difficult to comprehend( though the pimp says qrand is clear!)
7.Qrand is not applicable for now( though the pimp allah and the maha loud ah mohammad say the opposite)
8.Qrand should be read along witht he tafsirs and hadiths.
9..Qran only should be read and trusted!
10.Even sahi Bukhari is or was totally wrong!
11.Only the pimp allah knows the meaning of what's in qrand and what a miracle!
12.Just shut the Fk up and dont argue.I will kill you.
13.Ahh the rasool rapist was the best example to follow for all the humanity.
14.When qrand says men are superior and women have less intelligence means some thing different in different places!
15.Excuses, excuses and more excuses.Nut case who does not understand a word of arabic is translating the classical arabic qrandic sh1 *t
16.The three letters Aleef, meem , lam what a miracle of qrand.
17.The miracle of qrand is there are 1 billion absolutely brain dead,stupid, silly idiotic, moronic followers! That is a real miracle of qrand.This clearly shows there is no derth for moslems/idiots in this world.
If the moscum bags give a reason other than thiose mentioned, I will be pleasantly shocked!

Dear Charlie

I have read with great interest your statements as well as responses thereof. First and foremost, you are welcome to the forum. Please feel free and continue to post your thoughts. We all benefit, you see.
I think at least me, if not all, will benefit and try to understand what made you choose Islam out of so may available faiths. If time is not constraint, please send us an elaborate reply as to what made you to Islam. I will reserve my comments upon reading your great journey to Islam. Take Care Charlie. Awaiting reply!

Dear charlie,

If my history is right,after the 2 world war poor turks(muslims) were given work permits for reconstruction activities in Europe,mostly Germany.(i am not talking of immigrants from the colonies)They were duly paid for their sweat & the Europeans went one step further& give residence permits.We are christians you know,human rights & all that.This single humane decision is the root cause of the present day problems(+ from the colonies too).It is far from your lofty ideas of muslims rebuilding europe.

Can you answer my simple question---"who was instrumental in creating the present day kingdom of saudi arabia.???? Hint--It is not allah. Take care & walk your green poodle along the Thames or seine or where ever.!!!!!!!!

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. (Thomas Jefferson)

Don't forGeert Wilders!
Stop talking, start acting.
Isn't Geert's freedom worth a stamp?

If Geert Wilders falls, then Freedom of speech is dead in Europe. We are launching an extensive International Action SITA including two possible texts ; one comparing Wilders and Winston Churchill and another Wilders and Charlie Chaplin:

http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-wins...

http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-char...

To support Geert Wilders and our dearly acquired freedoms please participate to the 2 suggested actions and transmit this message to your friends owners of a website in order they publish it.

An other way to support Geert Wilders is to give some money. To donate: http://www.geertwilders.nl

LAST RESULTS

SITA action in support to Geert Wilders, report N°2bis (2009/03/18)
It's already one month ago (01/21-->03/18) we have been launching an international SITA action in support to Geert Wilders the "Voltaire" of four time.
The beginning success with 2 large peaks of 400 views(09/01/26) then 300(09/02/07) is confirmed with presently(2009 march the 18th) more than 4200 views.
Still better, our SITA websites (coranix.org and SITAmnesty.wordpress.com) have been visited=2 0by Dutch Ministery of Justice: http://tinyurl.com/agl2kn
It's clearly the proof SITA mails are disturbing Dutch authorities. So much better it's our aim.
Let's forget peaks, from now on we must keep on sending from time to time (once a week or month) a SITA mail in order the dhimmis from Amsterdam receive every day one or two letters, not necessaryly an amount. Think about the drop of water falling regularly at the same place and capable to make a hole in the hardest rock.
For example you could send a SITA mail every month at the date of you birthday so it would be an almost random process. A little effort from every one and a great success for all of us. Let's maintain the pressure.

Geert Wilders’ exclusive focus on islam is inherently flawed. If he is what he claims to be, he would use his time and effort to oppose all forms of dogmatic fanaticism. He would stray away from the path of spreading fear and instead, he would promote understanding, tolerance and intellect amongst all. Instead of firing up emotions with blanket statements, something he seems to be very good at, he would spread the principles of the Age of Reason, something most of us got several hundreds of years ago!

Geert Wilders is doing NOBODY a favour with the way he uses his free speech rights. With rights come responsibility. Geert, when will you take responsibility?

Charlie, you have just been sold a sugar coated version of islam... you dont have to tell us how peaceful islam is...they killings, beheadings, rapes etc we see day in and day out are proofs enough...enjoy your new found slavery...

Geert Wilders is doing a GREAT job...whats wrong in making attempts to save your culture from those who are destroying it???? It is muslims who make a choice to live by their own exclusive rules so why should Geert or others be compelled to integrate them. It is the immigrants who have to make effort to integrate.

Otherwise, ofcourse, there are lots of muslim countries these muslims can go to and practice their religion. But I bet they wont, because parasites need blood to survive and if they leave their host bodies, they will perish. Because parasites have never built anything of their own.

hlaros Says:
'Geert Wilders’ exclusive focus on islam is inherently flawed.'

This is a stupid generalization. hlaros has not disproved a single statement of Geert Wilders. The crack in the wall of Islam is already made by Ali Sina and others. Now the European politicians like Geert are coming to the stage. In ten years time more and more players shall come to the world stage to uncover the mask of Islam. Allah who supplies 72 women to the heavenly visitors, and his messenger Mohammad who married a six year old Aisha started stinking everywhere. Yes Islam is stinking.

Hlaros
Have you ever been castrated for Allah? How is it flawed. If so, the quran is flawed. He uses the veses from the Satanic Verses called the quran so yes the quran is FLAWED.

cHARLIE, The Quran is the most evil a #22 on the MOST EVIL SCALE from Columbia U. Islam is a racist evil lying bunch of fools. Allah is the DEVIL sura 3:54. did you know you serve the DEVIL and he is laughing all the way to the abyss and taking you with him. One billion slaves of SATAN are being led all the way to Islam's version of a god made untrue version of Greek hades. A world that doesnt exist. there is no hellfire except in the minds of people who believe that a loving god is sadistic. The bible god said we die and return to dust no burned forever. If we burn forever we are not dead. Greek myths makers sure made it live a long timer. Dante's Inferno made it possible. Jews had the Gehenna, a place they put dead dogs and bad humans and after death, allowed them to burn always. this was turned into a burning hell and copied by Constantine of Roman and imposed on the belief system of Christians in 325 CE. Islam copied the Roman version of Christianity, not Jesus' teachings.

Islam copied the SATANIC version, thus Muslims, moderate or radical are subjects of their Master SATAN ALLAH. q. 3:54

@ Roman

Stupid generalization...?? That's hilarious!

I don't have time to go into this particular speech by Geert. However, since he's good at repeating his own nonsense, you can however read my comment on another post about Geert Wilders which elaborates on the point I'm making here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/02/28/the-islamization-of-europe/commen...

@ Raisin Head

By mentioning christians, the bible and a bit of religious history, you are proving my point:
Geert should be concerned about all fanatics instead of focussing *exclusively* on Muslims. He is deliberately telling only a part of the truth. That's wrong and above all, the way he's going about it is working against all of us. The only thing he is achieving, is creating more extremists views on *all* sides! He's promoting fear where only caution is warranted and by doing so he's leading all his listeners away from *common sense* and general understanding.

#35 Christians are never told to kill muslims. Muslims are told 33000 times in the Quran and hadith to kill all of us Christian or not.
What point did I prove? Christians were never told to kill anyone, but were told to walk away if people dont want the gospel.
COMMON SENSE means I will not allow Muslims to destroy my Home. ok
AMERICA IS MY HOME, THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY, IF YOU DONT LIKE aMERICA THEN KEEP YOUR HOLY BEHIND IN mECCA OR SOME PART OF THE iSLAMIC UMMA. Go join the Pirates andget some of the money from appeasement by fools. No way would I give Muslims a cent. they have done nothing for mankind but kill and condemn. Prophet Mo never said good thing about the Jews and christians. Muslim never say a word of the good infidels have done ans shared with the evil vile STUPID Muslims. SAY THANKS YOU MR. INFIDEL. FOR THE INTERNET YOU ARE USING AT THIS TIME BEFORE YOU stupid Muslims DESTROY IT. 57 NATIONS AT THE un WANT FREE SPEECH CURTAILED AND THEY aRE 57 iSLAMIC CRAPHOLES.

CHARLIE, as a raisin head, XXXXX, ugly nappy headed sign of a bad disease as your low down prophet said, I wish your mind becomes enlighten by the light of common sense, not from religion, but plain old common sense.

@ Raisin Head

There is a larger than life difference between an average muslim and a fanatical killer who calls himself a muslim...

Are you honestly of the opinion that no one on the face of the earth has killed in the name of christianity or the bible? History if filled with examples of the above...

Btw, if I recall correctly, the Kuran, in a certain way 'praises' christians and jews to the extent that, although they are 'wrong', they are at least 'better' than non-believers. I don't recall a passage that explicitely calls for muslims to kill christians and jews. However, chances are that there is a hadith about this in one of many hadith collections out there, so... maybe I'm mistaken.

Anyway, all texts, holy or not, that call for the destruction of certain people because of their beliefs are flawed to the core. I think we can at least agree on that. Right?

I had a quick look in the bible and found this interesting passage taken from Leviticus 26:
14 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.
and verse 23 continues:
23 “And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant. And if you gather within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 When I break your supply [2] of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven and shall dole out your bread again by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

Now, if I were the same as a typical muslim terrorist with one difference, namely being of the christian variety, how hard would it be for me to believe I was the enemy, or instrument that God is referring to in this passage? The passage explains the downfall of non-believers (*anyone* who breaks *any* of the commandments told by God) by desease and the sword of the enemy. In other words, Leviticus 26 would empower me to kill in the name of God.

With most 'holy' books, it's terribly easy to pick out the things you want it to say.

...

The banner at the top of this site says:
"We aim to promote human rights and democracy among Muslims. We oppose Islam, not Muslims. We are against hate, not faith."

What I'm missing here is a clear distinction between radicals and muslims. I'm pretty damn sure such a distinctoin is real, not imaginary, since there aren't 1.2 billion suicide bombers on the planet...

What I am seeing here in abundance is hatred againt muslims in general. The amount of hatred is pretty mindboggling. Quotes from the posts above this one:
"Often, the first step is a clear realization that the Islam is a foreign, destructive ideology"

"Muslim corruption of their cultural and life"

"Its like a Mafia of 1.2 billion people"

"Muslims are back again!"

"Muslims ravaged the cities of France, burnt vehicles, molestation, rapes, mugging, everything is done mostly by Muslims."

"Imagine if he was a practicing muslim, then instead of playing soccer he would be practicing favourite islamic sport “THE JIHAD” by droping bombs in the stadia."

"All moslems are deluded and those who get converted are more deluded, but by accident and not intention are non moslems and by natural law of attraction of deluded forces by islam, ultimately gravitate towards this evil cult called islam."

"Those with violent tendencies, thoise criminals, pedophiles, thieves,rapists, cunning cheating lying bastards, child molesters, incestuous bastards and all sorts of anti social elements find islam quite attractive."

"Moslems have the same brain dead pattern of supporting the filth called qrand and the rapist called maha loud ah mohammad."

"The miracle of qrand is there are 1 billion absolutely brain dead,stupid, silly idiotic, moronic followers! That is a real miracle of qrand.This clearly shows there is no derth for moslems/idiots in this world."

...

That is the kind of hatred that dear Geert is encouraging if he keeps on going with his cheap, populistic speeches and if he doesn't stop spreading disproportionate amounts of fear.

Does any of this strike a chord with you?

Oh right. We must be happy that all the 1.2 billion and odd moslems are not in the business of killin and raping.Imagine the world where in all the 1.2 billion of the mohammad following creatures behave the same way?
We must be happy that only a few somalis ( moslems of course) are in to ship wrecking, piracy,killin etc as rightly guided by allah.
We must be extremely thankful to allah that not every moslem is truly guided by allah.
We spew hatred and allah loves us for not believing in him.Allah loves beheading us.So much compassion and kindness in this allah
Kill the kafirs where ever you find them? Can you please explain the meaning of this allah's love?
Every stone will say "Oh moslem, come here and kill, there is jew hiding here" Ohh so much of kindness by allah , I am just melting.
"Smite their necks and fingertips off" says allah so caringly.
The compassionate allah always says kill, maim and slaughter kafirs.He says kafirs are najjis.Is this the kind of love, compassion and care the scum bag moslems want to show to us the kafirs?
Kill and rape kafir women.They are right hand possessions.
Keep the shit at home and pray.
The stink of allah, moslems, mohammad is unbearable.You are so deluded, you are unable to even read and recognise the evil allah and eviler mohammad.You do not find any thing wrong in screwing a child aged 7 years, nor do you find it immoral to sleep with your own daughter.No doubt all moslems are deluded.i am yet to see here one moslem who says, it's immoral to kill kafirs just because they are kafirs,it's immoral to sleep with a child, it's immoral to sleep with daughter,it's immoral; to sleep with young boys.They are all primary guiding principles of islam you see.

@ Proudkafir

I assume were not addressing me personally in your response with 'you are deluded' and so on.

Your reactions are uncalled for. The vile you are spitting out over supposedly one fifth of the entire world population is misleading, inaccurate and full of hate. This has absolutely nothing to do with 'faith freedom'. Come back in a few months or years, read your own comments and get some perspective, for humanities sake.

Okie dokie.Let us hear your perspective of the followng statements by mohammad and allah.
Kill the kafirs where ever you find them? Smite their necks and finger tips off.
Right hand possessions? ok to have sex with? you kill a kaifr or get killed, you get 72 houries and 28 boys in heaven with your sexual strength raised to that of 100 men! Wow what a calculation. 72+ 28= 100 and the rasool did know they add up to 100.
How about beat your wives and scourge them!
How about the wives and women slaves are like tilth, you go in when ever and which ever way you like! So much of spirituality, iam getting a hard on!
Let us see your perspective please??? So much of compassion, kindness and spirituality in islam I am just wondering why people hate us moslems? tears are rolling down uncontrollably.Please allah help us.

hLAROS

The OT was for JEWS only not for all people. Stop using the OT to prove Christians did this or that. Jesus gave the world christianity not Jewish Law.

Under Jesus words no one was to be killed by anoher man. God would get rid of the wrongdoers. God said do not kill-so Muslims must go, moderate to not, you all still belong to the vile cult of murder and pedophilia and racism.

The Quran said kill all Jews and christians who refused to do waht Mo said do. Muhammad had 900 Jews killed of the Bani tribe. He ordered the death of a woman with 5 kids. He ordered the death of an old woman. He killed the youth of Aisha by marrying a little girl who played with dolls and her friedns. He beat her also.

Want more verses. Sura 8:12, sura 47:4, sura 9:1-30 Ishaq 670-Killing women is like butting heads of two goats.

hlaros wrote:

Geert should be concerned about all fanatics instead of focussing *exclusively* on Muslims.

Dude that is a flawed argument because Christians are not the ones blowing themselves up, creating ghettos ( no-go zones ), trying to establish a theocracy, forcing nonbelievers to follow Christianity, treating women like sh*t, and exc. You say it's only the radical Muslims who are doing this? Dude this is happening in western countries where a huge Muslim minority and these Muslims were once considered moderates.

#42 Thanks for educating hlaros. Muslims who claim to be so good always blame others. If it is wrong for Muslims it is equally wrong for others. We talk about all religions, and if the shoe fits then wear it, my Muslim brother from another mother!

@ Raisin Head

Why can't I quote the OT when all of you are quoting the worst the Kuran has to offer? You are deliberately putting christianity in the best possible light and the islam in the worst.

You have skipped an important question in my previous post directed at you:
"Are you honestly of the opinion that no one on the face of the earth has killed in the name of christianity or the bible? History if filled with examples of the above…"

I can always use more education, but apparently you are in need of it as well, as is Marie.

Apart from the crusades and the inquisition and more recent christian religious wars like the internal war in Ireland that went on forever, christian violence and extremist views that condone or even promote violence still continue to this very day. Just a few examples:
- every so often a person pops up in the news who denies the holocaust. Many of them are christian, mostly of the catholic variety.
- Christian pro-life activists: although the majority of them are actually pro-life, therefor against murder, some of the resort to acts of arson and (suicide) bombing of abortion clinics. That is how 'compassionate and kind' christians go about their way! Read the newspapers or search the internet.
- gay hate crimes: many examples exists, ranging from discrimination to murder. Read the newspapers or search the internet.
- there is a very large support among right wing christian movements for
- quote taken from this page: http://www.islam101.com/terror/mythViolence.htm
"In the 20th century alone, Western and/or Christian powers have been responsible for at least twenty times more deaths than have Muslim powers."
You may argue about the numbers all day, but it's safe to say that christians are in the lead by a comfortable maring as far as killing in the name of God goes.
- Someone show me where the compassion, kindness, the 'turn the other cheek' attitude was in the Iraq war. Some may argue that this war is primarily for democracy (yet another ideology... not so different from religion in many ways), or simply for money and oil. However nobody can deny a strong religious component woven into the entire conflict. In fact, the entire presence of the US in the middle east is considered by a minority of conservative christian right-wing movements as a nessecity for making the prophecy of the 'Second Coming' possible. How deluded is that?

Does it give a free pass for extremist muslims? No, under no circumstance! But if your perspective is so forgiving to christians in general (by cherry picking history and the bible...), why not extend the same attitude towards the majority of muslims???

I think I know the answer to that: plain, simple fear. A question for the christians amongst you: Where does that fit into Jesus' teachings?

I invite you to answer the questions I pose here or at the very least think about them.

addendum: I failed to complete one the examples:
- there is a very large support among right wing christian movements for...
the right to arms. Where in the bible is it promoted that one should have the right to bear arms? How does this fit into the christian teachings? Shoot back versus turn the other cheek? It doesn't make sense.

hlaros wrote:

- every so often a person pops up in the news who denies the holocaust. Many of them are christian, mostly of the catholic variety.

Those people do not represent Christianity and as for the Catholic Church, Pope Pius saved the lives of 800,000 Jews. Documents released last month confirmed this. As for Holocuast denial, there are plenty of Muslims in the world who offended by the subject and there are plenty of Muslim holocuast deniers out there.

For your accusations about Christians bombing abortion clinics, when was the last time a Christian bombed an abortion clinic? The last Christians bombed an abortion clinic was about 10 years ago.

When was the last time a Christian murdered a gay person? As far as I can remember it has been a long time since this type of hate crime took place and the people who do kill gays, do this despite the teachings of Jesus.

As for Christians powers killing more people then Muslim powers,Islamic terrorists have carried out 13,051 terrorists attacks since 9/11 alone. So how many terrorists attacks did Muslims carry out before 9/11?

None of those numbers include the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and exc. who were killed by Muslims because of their faith. None of those numbers included the Armenians who died in the genocide. None of those numbers include what Hitler's friend, Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husseini did to the people after he armed Muslims with weapons, which they used to attack people.

As for your comments about Christians cherry-picking the Bible and history, you sir are a hypocrite and a liar and unless the Muslims clean up there act and apologize to the nonmuslim world for the atrocities they committed, they will receive no forgiveness from us kafirs.

@ Marie

'Those people do not represent Christianity'.
Talk about cherry picking. You even have the nerves to call me a liar and a hypocrite? Astounishing...

Apparentely you think that 10(?) years of not bombing abortion clincis deserves a pat on the back. Oh look at how friendly the extremist pro-lifers have become. They haven't killed anyone for a decade ... How faithful they are to the word of Jesus. I'm not even going to bother looking up when the last one was.

Gay hate crimes including murder are to this day still ongoing! Read a newspaper or search the internet. Really, it should be terribly easy to find. Are you being lazy or just argumantative? Try:
http://www.google.com/search?q=gay+hate+murder

"people who do kill gays, do this despite the teachings of Jesus".
How comforting to know... but who cares when there are right-wing fundamentalist neanderthals that call themselves christian? The relatives of the murder victims certainly don't.
The hatred in these people is born out of interpreting the bible a certain way. You and I may agree that that is the wrong way, but if you can't even acknowledge that, you're beyond reason. Hatred leads to acts of violence, even killing.

"So how many terrorists attacks did Muslims carry out before 9/11?"
The answer depends on who you're asking. According to the logic you used on the examples I gave of violence by christians, I can simply answer: Terrorist don't represent islam. They're misusing the term 'muslim'.

"None of those numbers include..."
As I said, one can argue numbers all day and I'm not going to.

How about answering a few of my questions.

Apparentely you think that 10(?) years of not bombing abortion clincis deserves a pat on the back. Oh look at how friendly the extremist pro-lifers have become. They haven’t killed anyone for a decade … How faithful they are to the word of Jesus. I’m not even going to bother looking up when the last one was.

No I don't think ten years of not bombing abortion clinics deserves a pat on the back, just like you are advocating that Muslims deserves a pat on the back.

Tell me how many Christians have bombed abortion clinics over the years? You tell me are Christian blowing abortion clinics on a daily basis, like the Islamic terrorist groups are blowing up places?

Gay hate crimes including murder are to this day still ongoing! Read a newspaper or search the internet. Really, it should be terribly easy to find. Are you being lazy or just argumantative? Try:

You tell me how many gays have been butchered in Islamic countries?

In Egypt a few years 50 men were put on trail for being caught in the act. In Iran at least 2,000 or more people have been sent to their deaths. As for gay hate crimes, while there are hate crimes occurring in the U.S., at least four states ( NY is also trying to push legislation through as we speak ) have legalized gay marriage. In the U.S. gay couples are allowed to adopt children.

“people who do kill gays, do this despite the teachings of Jesus”.
How comforting to know… but who cares when there are right-wing fundamentalist neanderthals that call themselves christian? The relatives of the murder victims certainly don’t.

As for the right-wing fundamentalist neanderthals, there are many who do not believe in killing gays.

“So how many terrorists attacks did Muslims carry out before 9/11?”
The answer depends on who you’re asking. According to the logic you used on the examples I gave of violence by christians, I can simply answer: Terrorist don’t represent islam. They’re misusing the term ‘muslim’.

If you say terrorists do not represent Islam, then get off your ass and do something about. I am sick and tired of hearing Muslims say terrorists do not represent Islam, while in meantime sit back do nothing about those terrorists who are supposedly hijacking their religion. Get off your and do something about it. Start a protest, push for legislation that heavily penalizes terrorists, send your armies after them, and exc. Do something besides pass legislation that prohibites people from criticizing your religion and going around calling those people Islamophobes. Actions speak louder then words, words mean dittily squat.

Terrorists do not represnt islam because islam is itself terrorism! The fountainhead of terrorism is islam the evil.Bloody moslem scum bags need to be vapourised.
The hate manual qrand the used toilet tissue paper qarand is the spiritual back bone of the rats jihadis the moslem scum bags have the temerity to suggest that jihadis are not moslems.I am sick of these cunning.lying bastards.the rats of mohammad the beti chod.maha loud ah and his pimp allah.
Moscum bags have doen the killing for yonks and you are telling us 9/11 ! Such a lying cunning person must be a moslem and nothing else

@Marie

Obviously you are only interested in your own opinion and will do anything to keep it the way it is.

"No I don’t think ten years of not bombing abortion clinics deserves a pat on the back, just like you are advocating that Muslims deserves a pat on the back. "
I'm advocating that NON-VIOLENT Muslims get a pat on the back. You still seem to hold on to the thought that, say, 10 years of non-killing isn't bad at all. Societies don't evolve that fast!

You seem to get all the answers in the 'fact' that 'christians' aren't nearly as violent as 'muslims'. Apparently there's a contest going on of some sort, where the looser is the 'vilest insitution on the planet' and the rest are doing pretty (by comparison that is).
You are able to make the distinction between extremist criminals who call themelves christians and 'real christians', but you refuse to ue any of that logic to terrorists vs. muslims.

"If you say terrorists do not represent Islam, then get off your ass and do something about."
Why the heck should I do something about it? ... I'm white, born and raised a christian and live in a predominantly white suburb. As far as I'm concerned, Allah is a myth and Mohammed became a warmonger when he got the opportunity.

Was that what all this pseudo discussion was about? You thought I was a muslim that deared to speak againt this ponderous islam bashing? Open your f**** eyes. Your thoughts are so loud, you can't hear what others have to say anymore.

Let me share some more of my thoughts. Maybe these are more plausible for you, even to the point where you might start listening...
In islam, I see a religion that is *also* based on bogus 'holy' books that were written by men, just like all of them (read your history on origin of christianity for instance... you could be in for a shock). One can read what one wants in these scriptures, meaning it can also be misused to suit the needs of an extremist idiot.
I also see that the majority of christians aren't nearly as fanatical as the majority of muslims. However, christian violence is still going strong. This is common knowledge, which you are not able to ignore if you read the newspaper instead of the 20 second, mostly biased (for either sides obviously) news items on TV.

Back to the topic: Geert Wilders. There are a few of his points that I agree with, like his fight for free speech. But most of his speeches can be summarized by fear spreading for the sake of effect, or should I say for the sake of getting a few extra votes? In this manner, he may prove to be as dangerous as an orthodox imam. He wouldn't be doing anything wrong himself (freedom of speech...) but he's planting the seeds of fear and hatred in thousands of people. He's not doing any of us a favor by playing his cards this way.

Still, he's on to something. Caution is warranted, hatred growing fear isn't. But he hardly shows any of the things I hold dear: respect, dignity and with well-considered words. He uses hugh amounts of rethoric and presents only the facts that suit his need without any form of nuance or room for protest. He avoids public discussion with fellow political representatives and instead chooses to get his face on the 8 o'clock news with cheap one-liners. Read my comments on another article of Geert: http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/02/28/the-islamization-of-europe/commen...

I'm assuming none of this has changed your mind on eny of the points 'we' talked though... You haven't made any effort to reach any agreement on even the smallest parts of this 'discussion'. So continueing this is going to be a waste of time IMO, since there is no real discussion to begin with.

If you are by chance a christian or raised in a society with christian values and morales, ask yourself 'What would Jesus do'?