The Fear of God

You have nothing to fear but fear itself . . . haha

sina ur jus 2 gr8!!!!!!!!!,infact i became an athiest after thinkin about the universe(im a physicist) phew

guys sorry for postin same comment,i think i must have clicked on twice

Fear of the afterlife does grip eople often. Sometimes even the most learned udergo this phase. Its quite normal and nothing to be worried about!

1. God exists as a creator
2. There is no hellfire-per Bible-God loves us not hate us. Hell is Sheol in Hebrew and Hades in Greek. Dante's Inferno is where Christendom got the burning hell brought over to religion in Catholicism.

3. Jews had Gehenna where the bodies of bad people was burned up. Apostate Xtians included this tale to keep people coming to church. Most of first Xtians were Jews.

4. There were Arab Xtians as well as Greek Xtians, Syrian and African Xtians.

5. Heaven is for righteous-not killers of humans.

6. Earth will forever be here and will be inhabited with humans as was intended

7. Atheism has a God-disbelief in God-anti-god had a creator. Everything we have was created. Human life is created by sex. Paper was invented by men, not by itself. Evolutionist cannot answer how all men came in colors.

I asked my professor why cant I breeed with a lower form of life? He had no answer. Then I showed him my opinion-Genesis God created each being according to its kind male and female and it was so. I see that today. Evolution means revolving man has regressed as the Bible said.

evolving*

An excellent article by Ali Sini, in response to Dren.
I would sugest to Dren that he/she reads the "New Testament" = Jesus
and after that the "Old Testament"= The history & religion of the Jews.

As a point of interest, I have found out that these two books are not to be found
printed in Arabic in any Muslim country.

But look no further, thanks to the internet, it is all online.
Enjoy reading & wise up.

"Now if actually God exists, he would rule the world through laws."

This Ali Sina statement is without doubt closer to truth. God is god of principle and laws and will never break a single one of His principle! Actually scientists try to observe about how universe operates and when they miss any term to explain the ultra complexities of the details of the universe and when they fail to ascertain the origin of the cosmos they call it "functions of Mother Nature". The fact is this mother nature is what is God. This mother nature is basically what christians call the Spirit of God. While the accounts of creation in the bible personify God and says we are created in God's image such that the physical image that most people have about God is that of an "an old guy in the sky", I believe this is not the case. Many people tend to ask questions like who created God, where was God standing when he started creating, and so and so. These are sort of questions that exposes human ignorance when it comes to the knowledge of God as God is spirit and that's why the bible is full of verses of the spirit of God settling on...., then the Spirit of God came over someone..... Even we humans are just subextensions of God personality in spirit except that we are confined in boxes called human bodies. Can God choose to take a phyisical human body to be known to humankind? A question to ponder!

As I believe that God is sort of spiritual mother nature that controls everything under laws, as I also believe that all the details of the life after death such as Heaven and Hell, will be determined by the laws of the Mother Nature itself. Thanks to the bible that I'm able to get a glimpse of what these laws that determine the hereafter are.

Again the sort of picture of that we get in the bible I believe is very abstract such that the real picture is so complex that cannot be expained by any book. Thus people raises questions like how could God create everything in six days, why did God create evil, why did God create us in the first place to be deceived by Satan and afterall why God create Satan, an arch enemy of God. The full picture of this will never be understood by us humans while we are alive on earth. So what is the wise option, to believe in God by blind faith as is the case for muslim believers or to stay an atheist? I propose to stay an atheist. Notice that I never included christians, jews and pagan religions in this optios. First for jews and christians their faith is not blind. Jews believe they were saved from eygpt by the mighty hand of God through miraculous parting of Red Sea to the promised land. And every details of their traditions reflect such a phenomenon till today. So if you say this is still bind faith then you, a skeptic, have got a real problem yourself. Christians believe Jesus is real and resurrected from the dead. Again if you say this is a blind faith also then you have got a real problem too. Pagans believe ours is man-made. They caution you before you join them such that you are full aware of the situation. If the evidence of Judaism and Christianity is not strong for you better stay an atheist as I said. What does Islam offer as the evidence of their faith? It is only fear of hell and desire 70 virgins! Muhammad, a lier, is dead. All his claims about allah being so powerful such that he parted the Red Sea were stolen bible stories that muhammad has no copyright about them. Even Jesus did not say that I am sent by the one who sent Moses so believe me, rather he said to prove my claim that I'm sent by the one who sent Moses, I will rise from the dead. So muhammad bring on your own proof!

I do not think God will throw people in hell for not believing in him rather he will be likely to throw them in hell for believeing in what is blatantly a lie like Islam.

Certainly God of Abramamic religions is no good god! This god tells you to kill, rape,destroy and ill treat those who do not believe in him! The evil twain of bible and qrand are for the duffers,

Dear Mr. Sina,
Thank you for a wonderful article, Peace be with you!

I would also like to say to Raisin Head, sultanofspin - wise up yourself, and proudchristian - please stop trying to promote your christian beliefs here. The bible has it's origins in the same place as the quran. Thought up in peoples heads who were little more than power hungry egotist. The only way, at that time, to get noticed or achieve power was to claim that god, aka allah, spoke to you.

What I would like to know is this: if this god is so great and real, then why is it he only told ONE person? Why not speak to everyone, at the same time. I think my first paragraph answers that one.

First there is Moses and the jews are slaves in Egypt, a place where all religon is based around the pharaoh. Then out of the blue comes Moses and guess what, there is a god for the commoners, and he has spoken to him exclusively. Now who has the leadership role. That's right Moses.

Then we have Jesus, a baby born to an unmarried mother, not only an unmarried mother but "of the house of David", aka: royal linage, oops, better hush that one up. Oh, I know, we will tell everyone that god has spoken to us and is responsible for the babies birth. Jesus is the only one I feel sorry for, he had his head filled with this nonsense from the moment he was born and ended up being executed because of it all.

Next we have Muhammad, who also recognised the path to power, so now god is talking to him. Muhammad, himself being neither jew nor gentile (christian), but arab and most likely feeling a bit left out of the group. This would explain his prejudice towards both jews and christians, as he directed his followers to befriend neither of them, but failed to single out any of the other religous groups of the day, buddist, hindus, etc.......

To everyone, I wish you peace and happiness.

I shall give below the bibilical versus read by Neil Armstrong when he landed in the moon.
"When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have ordained,
WHAT IS MAN THAT YOU ARE MINDFUL OF HIM, and the son of man that You visit him?
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honour.
You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands, You have put all things under his feet. (Psalm 8:3-6)
Hope this is relevant to what Ali Sina's analogy of man and ants; but according to Psalmist, God gives higher value to man than to the stars. The stars will live billions of years but man lives 80 or 90 yrs. However the stars will not know that one day they will die crashing with others. But man knows that one day he will die. That is enough ! Man is greater than the stars!. That means God has created man for a higher purpose, to live with Him eternally. May be God has sent Jesus to redeem man for this purpose.

proudchristian,

So, after getting a heavy threat from Ali Sinner, you are now denying Jesus altogether and accepting Mother Nature as your new God! That's good. You should now throw the Bible into garbage can. Ali Sinner is now your God or Masaya. Because your Biblical God says:

"Atheists are fool. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. They are filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Psalms 14:1-3)

Those who don't believe in hell are wrong. The hell fire is going to engulf earth and the entire solar system and will burn all the living beings with it when the sun dies and expands. and yes, the atoms and molecules that comprise our bodies will then talk to other atoms and molecules as they get transformation during the death of sun.
The universe is going to implode one day and then contract leading to redistribution of matter.

Hello Mr. Sina,
I wrote you last time that people need religion for to hold on as a hope in their life. Usually religion gives human a comfort and tries to hold very common people sane in harsh reality of life. A feeling that someone is looking at you is comforting to try again and move ahead in life. Islam is no doubt a false religion so is christianity, judaism and buddhism. Unlike islam, buddhism and judaism doesn't show traits aggression towards other faiths. Christianity show traits of aggression, but that was in past and recently the have changed their way to deception and veneer charity for conversions. Nothing is perfect. Except for judaism and Hinduism all show traits of converting more and more in their belief system. Philosophically speaking this is a trait of aggression. The point is one is Huge evil and other are much smaller in magnitude. Personally I believe that everyone is free to believe what they wish to ( even spaghetti monster :) ) unless they don't disturb me and importantly I'm not disturbing them.

Point to write this that in all this complicated intricate nature of belief system and religions, ordinary people hold on to some thing that they have received by birth. Most of them think all is good and everything is nice. I know an old muslim lady since my childhood. The is kind very generous. She help all in need without looking at their religion. She is even kind to animal and insects. She says Allah ( god ) must have sent it to her as they must have some connection. A thought which is common in Sufism, Buddhism and Hinduism. She think and interprets all things in koran in positive manner. No matter if the facts are different than what she believes. For eg. the verses of sword, she says it is not for me and not suitable for her situation, those were for that time when it was revealed. These people don't argue with Imams, but don't take all what they say. To miscreants they call stupid and move ahead. What I see there are many peolpe who put a filter of their conscience and see good ( GOD ) and make world around them beautiful ( HEAVEN ). They say beauty is in eyes of beholder.

I feel the way for Islam to bring on right path is by retranslating and making a new sense out of it. Doesn't matter if koran doesn't contain science. What damage did unscientific stories in bible and torah caused harm to their religion? Letting islam escape from the imams and mullahs brainwashing cult. Educating people and making them realize what the real world around is. Generation of brainwashing and fighting made these people adamant and rigid. Otherwise you will kill one Monster and give birth to other. Mentality of people should also change. In developement of mentality not only religion but lies of generation, history, politics, deceit and emotions are involved. Best way is to educate them and show them the truth, which you are doing nicely.

I hope you may see your dream come true in our life time with having any other side effects. Best of luck.

Samir

Hi Dren,
do you think my raising your but five times towards sky and fasting all day and eating all night ( as they say Allah can't see in the night ) could take you to heaven. Or for Buddhist belief Nirvana or Hindu Belief Moksha, then it is a big time lie.

You know the success of Christianity and Islam?
Do nothing to wear out you ass in getting the seat beside god. tenents are simple and look like a cheap deal. Enjoy everything and give less to get a assured seat. Believe me God is not that easy. Just look at Jesus what he had to suffer and think how much devotion we have to give in. Now you must have guessed why Buddhism failed. A long process, very demanding and tiring.

You have classical dilemma what if it is right and what if it is not. So first of all you should ask yourself what is right and what is wrong. We all know God has made no difference in all Human at physical level. Otherwise kidney, heart, blood of one person independent of religion will not function with other. One christian called me I'm not pure as I'm not baptized. I said I'm and so is every human and animal. 9 months in womb of my mother I was all in water. So take what your conscience say you right. Look within yourself. Jesus said he was son of God. I say we all are and he also didn't say that we all are not. Hinduism and Buddhist promises Godhood after Nirvana or Moksha.

Moral of story religion is what you interpret with your conscience and not what is written. A good heart is where God lives.

Best of Luck and come out dilemma to go back to the brainwashed cult where free thinking is forbidden.

May god bless us all.

Dren just loosen up man, find some good books to read, party a little bit and most of all start helping other Muslims come out of Islam. If there is a God, he would bless you amply, for there cannot be a better deed than getting people of out of such a murderous philosophy.
It will make you feel good ..

#15. focussed Says:

"Those who don’t believe in hell are wrong. The hell fire is going to engulf earth ----""

No wonder this Christian missionary is more Focused on " Fear of Hell and Greed of heaven " than any Muslim cretin.LOL Like his Christian brethren Ibn Kamunna &Co. LOL.

It seems this Christian cretin has knowledge about Hell as if he/she is an inhabitant of ""real Christian/Islamic Hell.""

Remain focused on your old/new Testicles baby. Ha Ha Ha Ha

"What I would like to know is this: if this god is so great and real, then why is it he only told ONE person? Why not speak to everyone, at the same time"

He did! He spoke to them in the 19th chapter of the Exodus portion of the Old testament. Jesus? He also did. His disciples were there when God spoke to Jesus at the mount of transfiguration. Peter reiterates this in the 2 Peter 1: 16. The question should be how do we believe this at this very age? Well this is more of a personal matter. But more importantly missionaries should do their works so effectively to reach the unreached. It will be up to them whether they believe it or not.

Am I promoting my beliefs here? No. This is more of pertinent forum to write this. Peace to you too!

Greed and Fear have dominated the religious ( Cultism) scene for centuries, and both are absolutely irrelevant. The religious person is one who lives without Fear and without Greed.

People don't really want to be religious; their religion is only formal, it does not mean anything--it is Sunday/Friday religion. They go to Mosque, they go to Church--it is respectable, and they are good meeting places. They get a good feeling about themselves, that they are religious.

They are going there to pray to God to grant them some of their wishes, so that some of their desires will be fulfilled. They would like God to do some miracles for them.

Here is an English public schoolgirl's prayer:

' Holy Mary, I believe
that without sin
thou didst conceive.
Now I pray
in my believing
that I may sin
without conceiving.'

The so called religious people are going to Church/Mosques in search of some miracles, they are not interested in discovering the Truth.

Hello Dren and all,

This is my first time message on this website though i visit this site at times.

I wanted to reply to u because u asked whether god exists or not - is allah god or not? Somehow i felt i wanted to write something about my thoughts on that.
Here are my thoughts.

Ok, first of all, God - The Supreme - exists.
Atheists do not comprehend this fact because they need logic and the the way current state affairs of the world is they might come up with more number of arguments to prove the fact that God does not exist and every thing has been created by man. - So, let us move ahead and answer them later.

So, If God exists, where is HE? Is he in heaven or in hell or in some other world?
God is everywhere. Everywhere and everything thing that can be imagined with human mind and that can't be imagined with human mind, God exist and is.
In fact he is in you and me and in and every being.
The God who is in me is the same God in a Muslim,Christian,Hindu and also the same in a poor or a rich or a handicapped or a retarded person.
God is in all beings - Beings who do good and who do evil.
Good and Evil are not in the dictionary of God because it is HE who has created both deeds which man has termed to be good or evil depending on their effects to nature or outside world.
The Supreme is above all virtues and sins.
He has neither a liking or disliking for good nor bad because HE knows HE is the creator of everything.
Such statements now pose then what exactly is the TRUTH and what is human life intended for?

If God is within me and also everywhere,
then how can one know HIM?

God can not be realized with thoughts/logic - i accept this because even noble prize winners or for that matter no human being in history has perceived god with imagination and mind. -
So, is God unrealizable? No, you take one step towards realising HIM, HE will take 10 steps forward.
But the steps are not easy. Because we are caught in the world of illusion.
Understanding that this whole world is not real and is just merely an illusion created by HIM, one needs to unlearn a lot of things that this material world has created.
Some one above mentioned about Satan. Satan is nothing but our mind.
Our mind is filled with devilish characteristics like greed, ego, lust, anger,selfishness,distinction,hatredness and whatnot.
The hell is the satanic part of the mind while the heaven is the state of eternal bliss of the being.
The enemy is within us. These are the bondages that man has tied to himself and to realize GOD one should be free from them. Not to mention one more bondage is "attachment".
Attachment towards family,towards wealth or for that matter any type of attachment does n't free up the mind and so is caught up in the worldly illusion.
Foregoing all these things takes cycles of rebirths for a soul to realize the Supreme Soul.

Since I talked about the concept of rebirth, I would like to mention that I am a complete believer in the concept of rebirths and the law of Karma.- Karma means Action - The Law of Action.
Take for example, why is it that a baby is born blind? or why does premature death occur? or for that matter why is a person born in a rich and wealthy family and another poor family or take any example in your daily life where you felt that you had some luck or chance on a particular occasion?
I do not believe in luck - Everything is destiny and everything that happens is because it is destined for it to happen.Saying that, it does not mean there is no freewill to man! There is a freewill component to a being's life as well as destiny's component in the same life- How much is each is something no one knows and i guess it can't be fixed percentage values and depends upon each soul.
Now,once one thinks destiny plays some role in his life, then surely it has to be carried from somewhere..otherwise a new born baby who still has not done anything in this life ..why is she born blind? So, It has to come from the previous lives..he actions done in the previous life for which the results r being reaped in the present life.
Say, look at a person in a poor country like Somalia and in another in rich country US and think that when God is the same in both of them, then why does one need to be born to suffer and the other born to enjoy this material world.
So, what is the purpose of human life? Is he existing to suffer or enjoy as per the consequences of his deeds done in his previous life?
No, the purpose of human life is to realize GOD. But we are so caught up in this world that we think it is real and forget GOD. And where is GOD? He is within us . Attachment with everything, ego, anger, jealousy,lust,selfishness, hatredness, and what not are the obstacles to the human mind.
Then you will start loving the terrorist(terrorist is a man made word) who might have bombed ur neighbour's house or for that matter ur own house.
U will love everyone in this world and that love is pure, unconditional for you see the same in everyone as you see in yourself then.

The eternal blissful sate is the state of God - HE is the manifest as well as the unmanifest.

The topic is Fear of God. There is no need to fear of God because we are normal souls who still have not realised God and what we need to do is in fact love God more and more because HE is the only protector of his devotees.
Pure Devotion to HIM comes through complete faith in HIM and removing the satanic characteristics of the mind.Until then when we normal souls die, we are sure going to take rebirth and then suffer or enjoy this material world according to the law of Karma.

Have complete faith in GOD.Become his devotee.
If you want to call GOD by the name of Allah, let it be so. Pray to Allah - not five times but every moment.
GOD has many names.HE is both formless as well with form.HE can be what you imagine to be but to realise his form or his formless state, is the goal of mankind.
HE is the creator,sustainer as well as the destroyer.
He is the giver as well as taker.
HE is the ultimate destroyer called "TIME".
And Time perishes everything. The age of earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old, i.e 4,500,000,000 years - According to Science.
What we know about the history of man is not more than say 20,000 years.
If the age of earth is true as per science, which I believe to be true, and also believe that the earth has had many cycles of man kind created and perished in this time period - although strange enough scientists had found fossils of dinosaurs dated back to millions of years back but not human race - again a mystery created by GOD.
And during these cycles of mankind, we donot know how many cycles of rebirth and deaths have we passed to being like this we are now.
So, TIME which is nothing but GOD is the solution for everything and pray to HIM not for material gains but for the TRUTH of life.

This is my understanding of God and human life.

-- thanks.

i hav read almost all the posts that r in this thread
and came to the conclusion that "god is everywhr" has given quite satisfactory answer to the question in the thread

You know guys, I think its the personality of every person that may lead him to eventually become a believer in God, agnostic, or athiest. I believe in God. In fact, I don't think I can be an athiest, even if I wanted to. I have had many spiritual experiences, seen many documentaries about haunted houses, etc..that it is impossible for me to think that all we can see in this world is "It". it seems there are possible "universes" out there with different dimensionalities. There is a "spirit" realm(s). I just can't make a good athiest. I also believe athiesm is wrong. Too much evidence against it. Anyway, i am writing this not for the sake of arguing with other readers, but to share my own experience. You don't have to think that i am right. I've been wrong many times, and changed my mind according to the available evidence at the time.

halalpork786,
if only you had the brains to understand what I wrote and if you had studied what life of a star would you understand what i trying to communicate...

"19. Halalpork786 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

#15. focussed Says:

“Those who don’t believe in hell are wrong. The hell fire is going to engulf earth —-”"

No wonder this Christian missionary is more Focused on ” Fear of Hell and Greed of heaven ” than any Muslim cretin.LOL Like his Christian brethren Ibn Kamunna &Co. LOL.
"

What can I say. you are blinded by hatred and cannot even make out who is who.
When a star dies, its size expands. Same is going to happen with sun. The sun will expand so much that it will eat earth although by current estimates that is still a billion years away.
"
It seems this Christian cretin has knowledge about Hell as if he/she is an inhabitant of “”real Christian/Islamic Hell.”"

Remain focused on your old/new Testicles baby. Ha Ha Ha Ha
"
I don't give a XXXX about what bible says or does not say. The only reason I don't mind christianity is that they don't go about killing people for conversion although they used to. They are still using money power and deception but that is not the point of discussion here.
To me, you are now just like any mullah in a mosque, blinded by hatred and led by ignorance.
For once, leave yor hatred outside and then read and re-read what i have written. If you still don't understand, ask me before coming up with your idiotic judgements.

Ibn Kammuna,
I have replied to halalpork786 that awaits moderation. But as for your experiences, let me explain my theory.
We all living and non-living beings are in a state of constant transition between matter and energy. Ultimately, the sum total of all energy is constant. What you might experience as something out of the world now could be because of the way the different forces of nature occur( resulting into differing interactions between energies).
There is a forum topic and that is where probably we should discuss this.

Editors Note: FFI is not in the business of censorship. Can we please use civil language in our comments and discussions. This note is meant for

• EVERYONE

#

halalpork786,
if only you had the brains to understand what I wrote and if you had studied what life of a star would you understand what i trying to communicate…

“19. Halalpork786 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

#15. focussed Says:

“Those who don’t believe in hell are wrong. The hell fire is going to engulf earth —-””

No wonder this Christian missionary is more Focused on ” Fear of Hell and Greed of heaven ” than any Muslim cretin.LOL Like his Christian brethren Ibn Kamunna &Co. LOL.
”

What can I say. you are blinded by hatred and cannot even make out who is who.
When a star dies, its size expands. Same is going to happen with sun. The sun will expand so much that it will eat earth although by current estimates that is still a billion years away.
”
It seems this Christian cretin has knowledge about Hell as if he/she is an inhabitant of “”real Christian/Islamic Hell.””

Remain focused on your old/new Testicles baby. Ha Ha Ha Ha
”

I don’t give a damn about what bible says or does not say. The only reason I don’t mind christianity is that they don’t go about killing people for conversion although they used to. They are still using money power and deception but that is not the point of discussion here.
To me, you are now just like any mullah in a mosque, blinded by hatred and led by ignorance.

For once, leave yor hatred outside and then read and re-read what i have written. If you still don’t understand, ask me before coming up with your idiotic judgements.

godiseverywhere,
try teaching your preachings to terrorists and then let us see what happens.

Aamir ali,
you have just commited apostasy if you already had not by agreeing to godiseverywhere's statement that God is everywhere...

The Quran teaches, contrary to the Christian blind belief, that Jesus was a human, and not God! The Quran teaches, contrary to the Christian blind belief, not to believe in trinity as Jesus never taught this kind of false doctrine. The Quran teaches, contrary to the Christian inhumane belief, that babies are born without sin. And so on. Therefore, Islam is the only religion that can hunt Christianity down and restore the true teachings of Jesus.

God is everywhere? Which God are you talking about? Your God is also in the toilet? Terrorists and suicide bombers are your God? Hitler was your God? Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden are your God? Hindutva terrorists are your God? lol

Amim,
it amazes me that you can see the blind belief in christianity but fail do so in Islam. Either you are a hypocrite or a brainwashed zombie who has been told that Christian belief is blind.
You blindly believe in Mad Mo that Quran is from allah and yet can't it for yourself.

its good to see broad minded under one roof,i m a frequent visitor but first time logging in,GOD is not there where we want HIM TO BE ,HE is there where we tend to hide from HIM after devilish acts,angels and shaitan are metaphorical term which are determined by our deeds,.,.,.that is....the doctrine of KARMA,WHICH IS FOLLOWED BY every single substance of nature to balance the whole.so karma is the indirect projection of GOD,.its up to us to decide which karma to follow for humanity,.,.

Editor,
Apologies but that particular note was adressed to impress upon halalpork that others can use his language.

To understand about universe(s) and its functioning, please watch Carl Sagan's (one of the best astrophysicists ever lived) view on Vedanta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUdFB9vqrT0 ; It is a fact that Openheimer, Schrodinger, Neil Bohr, Einstein, and other greatest scientists appreciated the metaphysics contained in the vedanta. Read the latest science article (New Scientist) on the creation and destruction of universe:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026861.500-did-our-cosmos-exist-... ; All I can say is that the methods of arriving to the same truth are different.

God is every where! True but allah is only in crap pot! Millions flush allah down the drain daily but still the crap keeps coming up again and again.The pimp can not be flushed down easily just like the the undigested fat in food!

Take some time to watch yet another wonderful video from Carl Sagan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8Ke0

Amim is ranting Joker Naik's crackpot logic. He is just using, copy pasting his language without ever giving trouble to his gray matter. Gods and God's. This shows the immaturity of islam and its followers. The philosophical, intellectual bankruptcy. Vivekanand was 100% right in saying Islam to be new born child.

for god, toilet and place of worship are same. Our mind and our idiosyncrasies like a Polarizer, makes us see the difference. Hindu and Buddhist call it Karma. God and Bad are relative terms and outcome of our thinking. We say God created Satan ( a bad thing ). If i used to do some bad thing as a child my parents used to punish me. Even all legal system and religions suggest or enforce punishment condemning it at as evil act. If god created a satan, then it surely is evil act and God can't claim his seat for godhood. I hope this makes you see the falacy of your statement.

Further more I would say since there is no Satan, there can not be God. As Satan is absence of God and God is absence of Satan. If one doesn't exist, how the other will? By saying that everything is God, on macro level it means just like rules of physics, there exists the rules and everyone is bound to these rules. I don't mean these rules as rules of science merely, but the rules of what we called paranormal and spiritual. All things around are bound to and are part of this rules ( some may call it force, or spirit of universe or some call it God. I myself would not like to name it. ) This is meant by omnipresent, omnipotent in Hinduism and Buddhism. Enlightenment is REALIZING this principle by EXPERIENCING and then you see God everywhere and realize you are him and he is you.

God is not someone who is sitting on his throne in seventh heaven whom psychologically ill Mo visited on Buraq. If you think so then you have idolized him in your mind by fixing it to some figure. Idolizing is not merely carrying and worshiping idol. It is accepting god in one form and thinking of him in that image. Further more what idolization means casting the God in some characteristics. Like love, hate, anger, pain, revenge, curse and even kindness. If you attribute any of these characters to God then you have idolized him. Hindus "Advait" ( Not other or formless ) branch of devotion while explaining god say "na iti" ( not like). God is not like this and not like that. Coz it is hard to put a formless thing even into words. On one side Mo destroyed idols and preaches god tobe formless and other side he makes him just like ordinary human with all emotions. Where is godness of god expected by formless worshiping? That is why Vivekananda said it to be immature and I call it philosophical and intellectual bankruptcy.

Till now you used all borrowed arguments from Joker Naik and company. Your shameless imams and mullas arm you with so called intelligent arguments and send you with the goal of confronting and converting gullible masses. Once in while have pity on yourself and think on your own and start the thinking process using your own brain just once. What if this is right and what you believe is wrong?

Thank you rationalist for sharing this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8Ke0 While watching it I thought how a culture so profound and a philosophy so rich as Hinduism could succumb to the most primitive, the most stupid ideology ever conceived by man and wondered how easy it is to lose the culture of enlightenment lost to Islamic obscurantism if we do not stop it from happening.

It was really wonderful watching Carl Sagan's views on metaphysics. At the time when Carl Sagan said these things, the concept of cyclic nature of the universe did not exist. That's why he says "perhaps not to our liking...". I shall quote few verses from vedanta to support some of the facts stated by Sagan.

1. Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor any of these people, nor will there be a time in future when we cease to exist (Gita 2.12) - soul is eternal
2. anAdirvAyamAkAshah Akashavat sarvagatAshch nityah (Brahmasutra II:3.4) -- Space is beginningless and endless.
3. Iso deshascha kaalascha swagata eva sarvada (Madhvacharya quote)-- God, time, and space are eternal.
4. dravyam cha karmascha kaalascha svabhaavo jiva eva cha |
yadanugrahatah santi na santi yadupekshaya || (Bhag 2.10.12) -- Existence of time and space as applied to matter and souls is one aspect of reality, but it does not exhaust it... Every DEPENDENT reality must derive its identity, denotability, being, powers and activity from a METAPHYSICALLY INDEPENDENT reality. The Independent Real, transcending both TIME and SPACE, is described in the Vedanta as the REAL of the REALS (satyasya satyam- Brhadarnyaka Upanishad 2.3) and the ETERNAL of the eternals (Kathopanishad 2.2.13). Time and space are eternal realities dependent on THE INDEPENDENT METAPHYSICAL REALITY--- called God.
5. The whole cosmic order is under Me. By My will it is manifested again and again, and by My will it is annihilated at the end (Gita 9.8)

This is just the basics. More interested candidates can also read Brahmasutras. Finally I shall quote something unique from Vedanta:

"Brahman is limitless; infinite number of universes come out and go into the infinite Brahman, but Brahman remains unchanged." (Ishopanishad)

Rationalist, Thank you for posting the video. I have always enjoyed Carl Sagan, I don`t know how I missed this one. There is one similar by Richard Feynman I saw years ago, I don`t know if it exists on web.

Ali Sina, the famous British historian Vincent Smith also wondered the same as you did. He gave a very terse reply to how Islam proliferated in India. He wrote: "Indians got too civilized to fight".

The Indians got too civilised to fight, eh?

You got to be kidding mate. Indians along with teh rest of of Asian world are the most uncivilised, uncultured brutes you will ever find.

If anyone can save this world now, it is the white race. I am not a racist but I strongly believe in Race Realism. The white race is undoubtedly more civilised, intellectual and therefore superior than any other race there is. There are real measurable differences between races and we should be honest enough to accept reality. This difference should not be used as an excuse to exploit or incite hatred. Although not every race is the same, every individual must be granted personal liberty, freedom and rights. For your information, I am not a white person myself but I have profound respect for the white race for theior contribution to the world and their generosity and respect for human lives. Sadly this cannot be said of my own countrymen who are nothing but uncivilised brutes, clearly inferior to our white cousins.

Sundried atheist,DEAR that was a very unkind remark on a entire race of people.Are you that qualified to make such a claim?????have you been to any village in India & spend time there. My dear it is not about being civilized or about God.It is about POVERTY.ANY MAN ON A EMPTY STOMACH WILL NOT THINK ABOUT GOD.HE WILL BE WORRIED ABOUT HIS NEXT MEAL.HENCE HE MAY APPEAR AS A BRUTE OR UNCIVILIZED TO "CIVILIZED" PERSONS LIKE YOU.DO YOU KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE SUBCONTINENT-- REPEATED FAMINES,REPEATED INVASIONS.MORE SO ISLAMIC,EACH INVASION SENT US BACK BY DECADES,CASTE FACTOR WHICH CREPT INTO HINDUISM,ETC.

BY THE WAY DID YOU KNOW THAT THE CHIEF OF THE FEMALE SUICIDE SQUAD OF THE LTTE IS A WHITE WOMAN.AND BY YOUR RECKONING DEAR, SONIA GANDHI IS THE ANSWER FOR INDIA.TALK OF COLONIAL HANGUPS,THIS IS THE HEIGHT.

Thank you Ali, the answer to your question is that Hindus, over the years, forgot their Kshatriya (warrior) spirit and therefore were conquered by Islam. The first islamic onslaught on India happened in the 8th century (Muhammad Qasim). After that subsequent attacks by Jihadis were successfully quelled by the Hindu Kshatriyas. For almost 400 yrs Arabs could not do much. Then Ghazni attacked India in the 12th century. He was thoroughly defeated by Prithviraj Chauhan. It is in the code of conduct of Kshatriya Hindus that the captured enemy cannot be killed and an enemy can be killed only on a battlefield. Chauhan set him free, and this was the biggest mistake committed by him. But the monstor attacked Chauhan the very next year at night and caught him by surprise. The captured Chauhan was blinded and later killed. I agree with Sandeep Shreshthas comments. Hindus took a long time to understand the deceptive skills of Muslims. The onslaught continued centuries after centuries. I don't know how Hinduism survived for so long. But, I can already see the death of Islam in the near future and the resurgence of other peaceful religions.

Whatever Ali Sena has explained to Dren can be found in yet another video of Carl Sagan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUF38eHqdxs ; Dren don't be disappointed. We are with you.

To Sundried Atheist: You respect your ancestors for whatever they have given to us. You are entitled to your opinion. You can take away any material wealth, but the wealth of Vedanta will be appreciated by the intelligent forever.

"If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another." ---Carl Sagan

PEOPLE in the villages don't blame RELATIVES,NEIGBOURS,FRIENDS, OTHER RELIGIONS & EVEN GOD.He blames himself for his deeds or misdeeds.(karma theory)Thats the reason everybody gets away after attacking Hinduism.Thats the reason present day politicians get away too.At the most a Hindu prays to God to lessen his burden because he knows he has to live out his burden.We know we cannot get instant remedy or wish away the burden.

This attitude has frustrated & has been much debated by western philosophers to the extent of calling Hindus escapists.But then we cannot get communal & definitely we don't kill in the name of our million gods.if we are still brutes so be it.take care.

wonderful to see a wonderful debate and exchange of ideas after such a long time. Keep writing more Ali Sina.

SundriedAtheist:

I wrote a small comment at this site in response to an article on Feb 22. I am reproducing here for your benefit again, just in case you see the light in proper perspective. Here it is:

All human species have chromosome types X & Y, a genetic arrangement arrived at after millenia of evolutionary process.
Dr Allan Wilson, and his colleague Rebecca Cann were examining human DNA at the University of California, Berkeley, in the year 1987 and they made the astonishing discovery that all human beings have the same parents. This DNA in our bodies remains intact through the generations and is passed on from mother to daughter, but also leaves behind traces of the changes or mutations. When these scientists examined this DNA component in the family tree of human samples from each of the continents of the earth, they could trace it back to one woman who lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Obviously, she was not the only woman alive at that time and she also had a mother, but she was just the luckiest because her children survived to populate the world, while the lines of the descendants of other women became extinct. This is for X part.
Dr Peter Underhill of Stanford University and his collaborative colleagues have found that our father had also come from Africa. They proved this in a study of the Y chromosome which determines the male sex. Our ancestors left Africa only 50,000 years ago and we can track their genomic journey as they crossed many land bridges that are now submerged in the sea. The most famous of these connected Russia with Alaska and explains why American Indians have Asian features.
This means that we are all time-walkers out of Africa and can now trace our ancestors around the world. We are mongrels, and this evidence has finally destroyed the ugly theory of distinct races. Some of us are white or brown, others are black because we have had to adapt to different climates; the Chinese have narrow eyes because their ancestors had to protect them from the blinding sunlight of the snowy Arctic lands.

Now if religion concurs with these facts, it is fine. Otherwise, it needs to be rubbished for being impediment in furtherance of knowledge and research. Period.

PS: Just google the names of scientists mentioned in the text to read the detailed research papers. You bet they are interesting.

Before i visited FFi,i felt islam was right & muslims were wrong.In fact i was under the belief that islam was the perfect religion--one god,one messenger stuff.But on reading that he had sex with a "9 year baby" & married his own daughter in law is sufficient to make hindus wary about islam.THE MAN WHO CANNOT CONTROL HIS DICK WILL NOT CLICK WITH HINDUS.How can this man lead the mases.

Now i am sure islam is wrong & muslims are doubly wrong to follow islam.wake up muslims!!!!!!

why muslims are doubly wrong,Firstly to follow islam, secondly for practicing islam to the dot.Muslims have to understand a simple fact,TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.Give up this persecution complex!!!!

sandeep you are right.it was recently aired on national geographic channel if i am correct.But now the muslims will bring africa into arabia to explain about adam & eve.THANK GOD FOR THE RED SEA WHICH SEPARATES AFRICA FROM ARABIA.

Hi Mr. Sina,
Why Indians and this great clture perished? The same questions haunted me for long. Not only Indian but why all great cultures around the world perished.

The only way to india in those days for outsiders of the subcontinent, is through Hindukush in Northwest. There were some Mongloid, nomadic tribes from steppes to Persia like Yavana, Kushan, Palhavas, Shakas. This reference is also seen in Mahabharat. The invasions from these tribes could be seen in regular period even before Alexander invasion. Alexander's was biggest invasion, later on Shakas. The constant battering on Boundary kingdoms made them weak. They were in this struggle left alone to protect boundaries.

It is correctly said by Rationalist. Indians lacked the nature of Kshtriya ( warrior ), but also those Kshtriya who left were isolated and undivided. Chanakya seen this danger decided to unify country and stand as one nation. Till Ashoka, India was powerful. From boundaries of Persia to Tibet. Whole country was prosperous in terms of Arts, science and literature. In society the pacifistic religions like Jainism, Buddhism were becoming very influential. It drove masses and rulers to more of spiritual side. Ahimsa ( Non violence ) was getting promoted. After Mauryan empire the country which was put together by Chanakya under one rule, got divided again in small kingdoms. Gupta was the last and most glorious period after that.

After birth of Islam the invasions and their intensity also increased. Indian religions being pacifistic in nature, give place to new religions like Islam. Initially Islam was not at all successful and no one was giving shit to it. During early invasion period, not only kingdom, but society was also divided into different beliefs, sects and religions. The story says that some Buddhist monks give refuge to first Muslim invaders out of compassion and tenets of Ahimsa and kindness. The divided force and lack of national identity, pacifistic nature was the real cause that India fell finally to external invasion. The Borders started to shrink inwards slowly and under sword the existing culture, glory was robbed and destroyed. Temples destroyed, kafirs killed. All Indian knowledge was robbed and converted to Islamic knowledge ( eg. Arabic Numerals ) and teaching the arts, science, philosophy by kafir was termed illegal. Slowly due to lack of teaching, constant bloodshed, wars, raids and looting, the country was torn apart. People found survival and stability more important than any other thing. In such scenario many values get corrupted, teachings are used for personal profit and glory. The arrival of Muslim brought so much destruction and bloodshed that the country never had seen before. Those Muslims in Indian subcontinent proud to be called Muslims, don't know how their ancestors were killed and tortured for conversion. How much humiliation they have to suffer. God only knows how many women in their family in past got raped, enslaved and sold to Persians and Arabs before their ancestors converted to Islam.

These are my conclusions and view point. Correct me if you find me wrong.

@SandeepShreshtha

> they could trace it back to one woman who lived in Africa

Doesn't it found it home address? :)
Could you mention you reference please. as for my knowledge this is additions of creationists. Rest of the story holds. The sources when I read last time said, that Population migrated from Africa. The search is based on looking at variation of genes. If genes of some races are similar that gives close relationships. Many tribes in Africa are still iving the way their ancestors used to live. They found great variation of genes in these tribes. Such variations is not seen in rest of the world. This gives the pattern of human migration around the globe. National gerographic can do the analysis of your genes and tell you how your ancestors migrated and which racial path is taken.

Here is my reference
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/index.html