Debating with Muslims

Printer-friendly versionSend to friendPDF version[color=maroon]Hi Mr Sina I feel nice to see your personal response......You wrote about Dr Shabbir: "What he has done is nothing new. He has tried to twist the words to make the Qur'an look less violent and more appealing. This is basically what all other translators have done" I think this is not true about his translation bcoz the 1st quality of his translation is that its too much different from other ones......more he has used QUREISH DIALECT and TASREEF (the process whereby QURAN lets us look at the same concepts in various ways) whereas other translators used HATHEES..... Anyhow i don’t know Arabic grammar so i can't say anything that he has done his work farely or not..... u wrote " I invite you to challenge Dr. Shabbir to discuss his views on Islam with me."........i have already tried it and his responce was as "ALI SINA IS NOT A PERSON BUT A CHARACTER.THE BASIC AIM OF FFI IS TO MISGUIDE INNOCENT MUSLIMS AND INSULT ISLAM ".... upto my perception Ali Sina is not a character.....anyways you know better if you are a person or not......yet i will try once more to call Dr Shabbir..... You wrote about Dr Ghamidi that he is a sincere person......My experience is different becoz i had a face to face conversation with him recently. Frankly saying he is master of FIQAH but don't have the answers of critical matters described in QURAN........ Now its my biggest wish to learn Arabi grammar and understand QURAN myself..... Anyways....thnx to Mr sina for his personal response.....i'll continue to contect u whenever i need ur suggestions and help..... Zafar[/color]

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Dear Zafar If the translation of [url=http://ourbeacon.com] Dr. Shabbir [/url]is too different from the other translations of the Quran, that means only one thing and that is he is wrong. Now, to translate the Quran you need neither the Quraish dialect nor the hadith. All you need is to know Arabic. That is not a difficult task. Even I, who don’t speak Arabic, can understand the Quran in Arabic and as I stated before, Dr. Shabbir’s translation is far from accurate. I am not sure what Dr. Shabbir means by me being a “character”. Does he mean that I am someone like Ali Baba who exists only in fairytales? Well if so I am more real than Allah. I respond to emails and talk to people. The only person who claimed to have talked to Allah through an angel was Muhammad. How do we know that the angel that visited him was not Lucifer? So if Dr. Shabbir talks to Allah, he should also talk to me. At least he is going to receive a response from me. Now, let us say I am only a “character”. Why should anyone care? I am not an important person/character. It is this message that I and other ex-Muslims in FFI are delivering that needs to be addressed. People write responses to dead historic figures. Psychologists refute Freud, economists respond to Marx, etc. We refute Muhammad. It is the idea that matters. The idea is independent from persons. Say, I give you an idea; you take that idea and add to it your own ideas and then pass it to another person. He does the same and so on. The idea evolves. It can be defeated or accepted but that idea has nothing to do with me anymore. Now how absurd is it to say, I am not going to answer to that idea unless you prove to me that the first person who said it is real? Suppose he is not real. Suppose he is dead. There are many ideas that we don’t even know who started them. That person does not matter anymore. It is the idea that we have to confront not the person. This is the most elemental form of logical fallacy. It is called ad hominem. Ad hominem means attack at the person. You tell me something that I can’t refute; so instead, I start attacking you. Here is one example: You say exercise lowers the bad cholesterol while it raises the good cholesterol. This is a scientific statement. It could be true or false. I can either agree with you or disagree. If I disagree I must say why or ask for proof. Then it is up to you to show the facts and convince me. However, if instead I retort, “Who are you to opine on this subject? Are you a physician? Has anyone seen your diploma? Maybe you are just a troll. Why should we trust you? I know you yourself have heath problems, etc”, I am engagin in ad hominem. Instead of engaging in debate with you asking for proof or refuting your claim logically, I shift the attention on you and start attacking your credibility. This is evasion. People are not fool. They can easily see why these gentlemen who claim to be scholars are so afraid of debate. I am not asking anyone to believe in what I say because of my authority. If I ever make that claim, then people are doing the right thing to ask for my credentials. Muhammad made that claim and no Muslim tries to check his credentials. They beleive in him blindly. And yet, they ask me for credentials when I never made any claims. When I can provide the proof, why you need credentials? You need to ask for credentials when there is no proof. How can Muslims be so confused that they ask for credentials when it is not needed and don't ask for it when it is vital? The reason I respect Dr. Ghamidi is that unlike Dr. Shabbir and others, he is honest. He truly believes that Islam cannot be defeated logically and that is why he is not afraid of confronting people who are critical of Islam. Dr. Shabbir and Dr. Naik, either do not believe that Islam can be defended logically or they doubt their own ability to do that. Otherwise this would have been a golden opportunity for these gentlemen to defeat us publicly and put an end to this site and all its “fictitious characters.” Dr. Shabbir tells you that I am “misguiding innocent Muslims”. Well, here is his chance to prove what he says. If he does not do it then he is responsible in front of Allah. You tell me who is the bigger sinner! Even if I am wrong at least i am honest. God does not punish people for their ignorance. But he will punish them for failing their duties. Dr. Shabbir on the other hand knows that I am misleading innocent Muslims, he claims to know the right answer, and yet he is withholding it and letting Muslims (indluding myself) to be misled. If you were God, who would you punish more? If someone attacks your country, you respond. You wont snob your enemy. Muslims are very strong in defending Islam with bombs and by killing civilians and children. But when it comes to logic they are very timid. You may send this message to Dr. Shabbir if you like. My offer stands. Prove me wrong and I will remove FFI after issuing a public apology and reward you with $50,000 dollars for saving my soul. If Islam is true, this is the time to prove it. You say you are a hafiz of the Quran. It is not really difficult to understand this book. Do as I did. Read a verse in Arabic and then read a few translations of that verse. Try to understand the verse in Arabic before moving to the next. It takes time but at the end you will know what Muhammad said without having to rely on others to tell you what he said. Wish you all the best and let me tell you that you have the right attitude to become enlightened. Keep asking and reading and you’ll eventually find the truth. All the best Ali Sina