A Debate that I Lost - The last Verse of the Quran

"That debate took place years after I already left Islam, but the blunder, on its own, is a good enough reason for any thinking Muslim to leave Islam."

But they won't leave Islam even after recognizing the blunder. How do we deal with these people? I think we need to just leave them alone in Islam until they "get it". Let them bang their heads five times a day, let them starve themselves with hunger during the satanic month of Ramadan, let the muslimahs tent themselves in shrouds, let them hate kaffirs until they "get it".

Our role here is to educate non-muslims: not to convert in the cult of lie, not to solace with anything islamic, to be alert all the time when in vicinity with true muslims and to take everything a muslim talks with a grain of salt.

What about our brethren non-muslims living in majority muslims countries such as Pakistan, Somalia, Eygpt or Iran? God will just take care of them, let's just continue with our educative role.

For me it is very simple and I need not argue or debate with any Muslim. Upon reading the Quran and sunnat al rasul and other books there is nothing but one overwhelming impression left in my mind. The hatred, the love of violence, and the way Mohammed lived, as compared to other prophets, leaves me no choice but to reject Islam and all it stands for.

Things get even worse when you start researching their history, and you will find them at the bottom of human civilizations.

The worst of all of this, is denial of own heritage and great history, in favour of a dogma from people who had no history to speak of before Islam. Think Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon etc...

to proud christian. The bible is full of blunders an contradiction that could even confuse my very educated guy but yet your a proud christian. The bible has no reference of jesus claimin divinity but yet you still believe he is god. So before you say nonsense about islam look into your own religion as it is completely messed up with contradictions startin from the first verse in the first chapter genesis.

LS, you wrote:
1." your own religion [Christianity]...is completely messed up with contradictions startin from the first verse in the first chapter genesis."
Gen1:1 "In the beginning when God created the Universe," (GNB).
Now, the only "contradiction" that I can see here would be if God didn't create the Universe in your opinion. But I thought Islam believed that Allah created the Universe (he certainly claims to in the Koran) and I've been told many times by Muslims that Allah = the God of the Bible, so aren't putting yourself on shaky theological ground here by denying the Koran?

2. "The bible has no reference of jesus claimin [sic] divinity". We've been here before (several times) LS. To summarise: claim does not equal proof, but by same token lack of claim does not equal denial either.
I'm reminded of the phrase: "If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck and acts like a duck; it probably is a duck".

londonspirit,

I'm willing to debate with you about Christianity and the bible but only after you have recognized Muhammad was an imposter. I don't see the point of debating Islam vs Christianity, they are incompatible. Are you ready to take me?

JONC WROTE: Gen1:1 “In the beginning when God created the Universe,” (GNB).
Now, the only “contradiction” that I can see here would be if God didn’t create the Universe in your opinion.

ANSWER: Jonc why dont you state the rest of the verse. I tell you what i will do it for you

11: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Gensis 2.

2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Now jonc can you see the contradictions here. I will just point out three basic ones.
1st contradiction. How does plant grow without sunlight. We know from scientific evidence today that the plants need to grow via sunlight. But yet in the bible it says the plants grew first than thew sunlight was added.

2nd contradiction: We know that there aint to lights. There is only one light. The suns light. The moon doesnt have a light. But yet in the bible it clearl says 16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The moon which the bible is reffering to as the lesser light has no light of its own, it is reflected light from the sun. Answer that

3rd contradiction: Why the hell does god need to rest. He is almighty. He has no reason to rest after a hard 6 days work. He has been keeping an eye on the world and other extra terrestial activites for millions of years. If he rested on the 7th day who took control of the universe on that day.

I have many more contradictions in genesis alone. And if I wanted to be a smart ass i could list all of them.

JONC WROTE: “If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck and acts like a duck; it probably is a duck”.

ANSWER: Ok lets analyze jesus
1. He never claimed divinity, HOW CAN GOD NOT CLAIM SUCH AN IMPORTANT THING
2. he died, GOD DOESNT DIE
3. He got murdered according to the bible, HOW CAN GOD BE KILLED BY HIS OWN CREATION
4. He asked for gods permission to heal the death , blind and dumb, HOW CAN GOD CALL UPON GOD TO HELP GOD HEAL THESE PEOPLE. MAKES NO SENSE
5. He could himself a man. WHY WOULD GOD CALL HIMSELF A MAN
6. He told his people that anyone who seeks salvation through him is evil. WHY WOULD GOD TELL PEOPLE NOT TO SEEK SALVATION THROUGH HIM.

I can go on and on and on. So mate through a simple analysis which i can give biblical reference to I dont see jesus quack like god, walk like god, swim like god hence he is not god.

LOL. PITIFUL .

And proud christian the last time I had a debate with someone on her ein regards to quran and bible. I was left unanswered. I asked only one question, which i didnt get an answer to whereas I answered all but one of her accusations in regards to the quran and its authenticity. And it wasnt because i couldnt answer it but bcause I just wanted my single answer to be answer. SO I WILL NOT DECLARE MUHAMMED AN IMPOSTER AS ALL THOSE CONTRADICTIONS IN GENESIS HAVE BEEN REPHRASED IN THE QURAN AND AGREES WITH MODERN SCIENCE, AND YOU CAN SAY THE QURAN WENT OVERBOARD IN ITS SCIENTIFIC ESSENCE THAT IT SHOWED MAN WHAT SCIENCE HAS ONLY DISCOVERED IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.

IF YOU WANT A DEBATE YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ON CHRISTIANITY FIRST.

Good luck with LS, guys.

Sadly, I fear his mind is shut. He's locked behind a door of fear and he won't open it.

May be behind the locked door molesting a neighbour child? A typical moslem scum bag? better even banging his daughter? A rather very typical moslem scum bag nature?

PROUDKAFIR. It is your mind that is thinking these sickness. So it maybe that you desire or your fantasy is to do it with your sister as such a sick thing wouldnt even cross my mind as I would throw up even thinking about it. But obviously you seem to be imaging it, i hope your sister dont mind you thinking about her in such a way, anyway these sorts of incest are acted upon openly in countries such as america and germany.

JBM: Good luck with LS, guys.

Sadly, I fear his mind is shut. He’s locked behind a door of fear and he won’t open it

ANSWER: Please JBM dont make me laugh. I am still waiting for ali sina to answer my accusations and waiting upon all of you to answer my challenge, which none of you including ali sina has the courtesy of answering. And you think i am in fear. What the bible mislead people into thinking the quran rectified, which agrees with modern science and you think I fear. LOL.

LS, Basically the point you are missing is that whether or not you believe in God, Islam has a very different agenda to all the other world religions and philosophies except Nazism. It is essentially totalitarian and cannot exist alongside a secular state system. Just research Sharia law and what it is. Islam wants to see an Islamic world and is not trying to hide it. Whether or not it will succeed is another matter.
The other fact is that Muslims see Mohammed as the 'perfect' human being whose life and actions should be emulated and yet any research into his life will show you some disturbing truths. He murdered and raped unashamedly and married a 9 year old when he was 56. For me and an increasing number of people who are learning about Islam and Mohammed, this is actually quite worrying. What is even more worrying is that the media and the establishment refuses to challenge Muslim leaders.

TYKE WROTE: LS, Basically the point you are missing is that whether or not you believe in God, Islam has a very different agenda to all the other world religions and philosophies except Nazism.

ANSWER: What the hell you talking about here. Islam belives in the same god as all the other abrahmic religion. And if you read verses of the bible and torah Allah is given preference as god, but it is tranlated in different form due to the dialect. I will give one example:

" From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" ["Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" in King James Version Bible] -- which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:45-46, NIV) . Ask yourself who is jesus referring to when he is saying Eloi, and if you translate that from aramic to arabic what does that come to?.

TYKE WRTOE: He murdered and raped unashamedly and married a 9 year old when he was 56.

ANSWER: Many westerners are converting to islam from their mother faiths, even after they questioned scholars about these matters. Yet why did they revert to islam. Well because
1. Muhammed never murdered and there is not a single reference from the quran which states that he murdered or hadith. Muhammed only faught inself defence.
2. He defo didnt rape. I dont know where you got that from.
3. And even though there are reference of his marraige to ayesha, you have to question why ? and further more there are other hadiths stating that ayesha was actually in the age range of 18 when she got marreid to muahmmed according to some other hadiths.

Now you just a person tyke, who has probably never read the quran or even understood it. Your just cherry picking verses from sites that seek to destroy islam. You have no knowledge of islam,. You see there are many people on here who seek to curse islam with no knowedlge of islam whatsoever. They read hadiths which sounds like murder and they post it as murder but not looking at it historically. Hadiths are there to show the way of life of muhammed and what happened during his life.

Get your facts straight bout islam before you accuse.

LS said:

"What the hell you talking about here. Islam belives in the same god as all the other abrahmic religion. And if you read verses of the bible and torah Allah is given preference as god, but it is tranlated in different form due to the dialect. I will give one example:"

Look below to see why your statement is wrong.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4266

Have a nice weekend.

JBM again you just directed me to a site, written by another islamic hater and probably is not a DR. or a proffessional in his field. Let me give you some proffessional work done by proffessional people.

Before i move onto that matter, lets use common logic to analyze one thing. If jews call their god YHWH but jesus used the word Eloi, does that mean that christians believe in different god to the jew. And christians also belive that jesus is god so that means they are completely contradicting the old testament which says your lord our god is One.

So it looks to me as christians are worshipping different god than jews?.

Now coming on to the matter of YHWH:

"Judaism teaches that while God's name exists in written form, it is too holy to be pronounced. The result has been that, over the last 2000 years, the correct pronunciation has been lost." (Mankind's Search for GOD, p. 225).

Here we clearly see that the pronunciation for the original name for GOD Almighty had been lost, and the Jews have no idea what the exact pronunciation is from their Holy Scriptures and resources.

"About 3,500 years ago, God spoke to Moses, saying: 'Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: The LORD [Hebrew: YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: This shall be My name forever, this My appellation for all eternity.' (Exodus 3:15; Psalm 135:13)" (Mankind's Search for GOD, p.225).

"....the four Hebrew consonants YHWH (Yahweh) that in their Latinized form have come to be known over the centuries in English as JEHOVAH." (Mankind's Search for GOD, p.225).

So the word "YHWH" or "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" is not the ORIGINAL name, but the appellation (title) for the Almighty GOD. This is perfectly fine, because Jews, Christians and Muslims call on to GOD Almighty as "The LORD" or "The GOD", which means "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" in Hebrew and "Al-Rab" in Arabic. "Al-Rab" in Arabic and "Yahweh" in Hebrew and the other translations in all other languages are indeed GOD Almighty's title. But they are NOT His original Name!

Let us look at what Exodus 3:15 and Psalm 135:13 from the NIV Bible say: "God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, `The LORD [Notice that they didn't write Jehovah. "The LORD" in only a title], the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation. (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 3:15)"

"Your name, O LORD, endures forever, your renown, O LORD, through all generations. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 135:13)"

So as we clearly see from the above Verses from the NIV Bible, the original name for GOD Almighty is not "Yahweh". The title "The LORD" is only a title and a nick name (if you will) that we give to GOD Almighty. But "Yahweh" is definitely NOT THE ORIGINAL NAME for GOD Almighty.

So as you can see YHWH is not a name given to GOD but is like the muslims saying ALRab

So therefore is YAHWH and Allah the same. NO cause ahweh or Jehovah being just a title or "appellation" (Exodus 3:15) for GOD Almighty where as allah is a name.

So therefore we cannot use the old testament for reference on this matter. So we look at the new testament on what jesus called god.

Now jesus never ever reffered to God as YHWH. Why did Jesus choose to say the Aramaic "Eloi" to the Hebrew speaking people?

Refer to this site and you would see how Eloi/Ellah is translated to Allah in arabic. And you will also see the false interpretation by Dr. Robert Morey who first reffered to Allah as the moon god.

If you look at the verses of the bible jesus clearly used Ellah. so who was he reffering to.

WHEN YOU USE COMMON SENSE YOU CAN SEE THAT JESUS IS USING THE SAME WORD AS MUSLIMS ARE USING FOR GOD. AND IF YOU TRY TO BE STUBBORN ABOUT THE MATTER, THAN YOUR SAYING THE GOD THAT JESUS IS REFFERING TO AND PRAYING TO IS NOT THE SAME GOD AS JEWS ARE REFFERING TO AND THE JUDASIM IS NOT RELATED TO CHRISTIANITY, BECAUSE NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT DOES JESUS SAY YHWH.

MATTER CLOSED.

NOW JBM ANSWER THAT. I JUST ANSWERED YOUR ACCUSATION AGAIN. MY MIND IS OPEN, SO IF YOUR MIND IS OPEN EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING:

1. WHY JESUS DIDNT REFFER TO YHWH WHEN HE CALLED UPON GOD, BUT WHY DID HE REFFER TO GOD AS ELOI.

2. AND ARAMIC TRANLSATION TO ELOI/ELLAH WHAT IS ITS DERIVIATION INTO ARABIC.

Sorry forgot to input the site. The site is

http://www.answering-christianity.com/moongod1.htm

LS,

I directed you to a post on THIS site. I linked it because it's true. It proves my point. It's evidence of why you are wrong. If your mind is so dead that you aren't at least curious to see what it says, suit yourself.

/facepalm

JBM: errmmm i read this post outside of this site over a year ago. And if you had even bothered to read my post you would see that YHWH is not a name for god but it is like the muslims say AL rab. But obviously you didnt read my post, so i dont think your point is proven and my mind is not dead.

Like i said i have read this article over a year ago, and it wasnt published on this site first. If you just type yhwh and allah on google you will come onto this article on many websites.

WE CAN NO LONGER REMAIN SILENT.

Islam treats women like animals. Islam is a diabolic Cult run by crazy blood-thirsty-monsters. A photocopy of their forerunner who was a mass murderer, rapist, blasphemer, pedophile. Married nine year old Aisha, married Javairah his slave. Born in Mecca. Orphan at young age. Brought up under the care of his uncle Abu Talib. Worked as merchant as well as a shepherd. At the age of 40 he received the revelation from Allah to teach Islam a devotion to bloodshed-entertainment. Reference to " ATLAS SHRUGS INDONESIA" or
" FITNA"

Islam generates tyrannic rules of Shari'a. Ever Muslim interprets his own Islam on primitive philosophy in advocating chaos and murder. Reference to the video taken by" Syaifuddin Zuhri " Islam is a mental condition in the grooming of young jobless innocent men trained to believe in Jihad. A suicide human-mobile-bomb sent to the pleasure of sick Muslim monsters thirsty for bloodshed entertainment. Reference to Jakarta bombers Dani Permana 18 years-old and Nana Maulana 28

In the years of silence of Islam terrorism . Indonesia learned nothing. The evil of Islam on Indonesia still prevails and dominates our lives. The danger is, Islam terrorism is sheltered behind the Holly Walls of Rahima ready to strike again on this battered country with earthquakes and natural disasters as if Allah has completely forgotten Indonesia.

The Jemaah Islamiah is an Islamic guerrilla network synonyms to Indonesia. In their urge of revenge and hatred against America. The Jemaah Islamiah bomb America in Jakarta and in Bali! The question is. For what reasons Islam is in war with Indonesia? Can anyone name who is behind the war strategies against Indonesia?

Amsterdam today 3rd.October,2009. My name Listiani Lestari id:530971312. Converted from Islam by my Dutch husband.

Hi Mumin

It was really good read. Is it possible to provide the exact reference to the hadith quoted in the article as just SB or SM does not help in locating it.

Thanks

London Spirit Post #24662.
What rest of the verse? You said "from the first verse". I quoted the first verse (Gen 1:1), you responded with Gen 1:11 et seq.
That is a non-sequitor and in more senses than one!
You claim contradictions from the first verse, I point out there is no contradiction in verse one, you reply by quoting G1:11 on.
What have those verses to do with the (lack of) contradiction in verse one?
However, in a sense of fair play, your contradictions:
1. You omit verse 3 "Let there be light". So light was there before before plants grew in the first place, in the second plants sprout without light.
2. So you've never seen anything under the illumination of moon-light?
3. The verse says God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." a. Your objecting to God resting is based on your own assumptions, b. God only rested from the work he had done (read the verse).

A very partial analysis, LS. Not a quote provided, just assertion. At best your 'analysis' omits all the all contrary evidence in of Jesus' ministry.
Second, we've discussed this elsewhere and I (and others) gave you a full answer there. If you're going to take this up again, at least respond to the points already made.

LS comment #24840
You wrote: "... when he is saying Eloi, and if you translate that from aramic to arabic what does that come to?."
I'm not sure what "Eloi" translated into Arabic would be, but it ISN'T "Allah". As you point out in a later post Lord translates as "Al-Rab".
So what is your point?

In your responose to TYKE you claim "there are other hadiths stating that ayesha was actually in the age range of 18 when she got marreid to muahmmed" reference please. I have searched Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDawd and Malik's Muwatta and found nothing to contradict the Bukhari hadith that Aisha's age at marriage was 6 and at consummation 9.

Comment 24851:
Do try to give facts!
We've had this conversation before and the facts have been explained to you. However, let's take your own post:

"Judaism teaches that while God’s name exists in written form, it is too holy to be pronounced. The result has been that, over the last 2000 years, the correct pronunciation has been lost.” (Mankind’s Search for GOD, p. 225)."
Correct, the vowel pointing to correctly pronounce "YHWH" has been lost, but "YHWH" is the written consonental form of God's name.

“….the four Hebrew consonants YHWH (Yahweh) that in their Latinized form have come to be known over the centuries in English as JEHOVAH.” (Mankind’s Search for GOD, p.225).
True. The derivation of "Jehovah" comes from combining the tetragrammaton (YHWH) which could not be spoken aloud with the vowel pointing for "Eloi" ("LORD"), just look at the letters and you can see the match.

Most Bibles follow the Hebrew tradition and use "the LORD" in place of "YHWH".

You then refer to Exodus3:15. However, you have fallen into the error of assuming that the Hebrew says "Eloi". It doesn't. A more literal part-translation of Ex3:15 is:
"...You are to tell the Israelites, YHWH, the God of your ancestors..."
In fact the whole of Ex3 is a "Yahvist" passage, so I'm sorry to say your 'exegesis' (I'm being kind here) is in error.
Further, you then REPEAT your error with the Psalms! Ps135 also uses "YHWH" in the written original, so there goes that strand of your argument as well.

You then say: "Now jesus never ever reffered to God as YHWH. Why did Jesus choose to say the Aramaic “Eloi” to the Hebrew speaking people?"
Do I have to remind you that, in your own post, you show that the Hebrews would not SPEAK the Holy name of God?
Why ask a question when you have provided the answer previously?
So, from your own post, Jesus was certainly referred to YHWH in what he said by the title "Eloi." Which was the conventional way of referring to YHWH as every Jew who heard him would know.

And then this: "Refer to this site and you would see how Eloi/Ellah is translated to Allah in arabic".
But you just said "Eloi" = "AL-Rab" (arabic for "Lord")
First, according to you, "Eloi" = "Al-Rab", now it equals "Allah"?
Make up your mind LS. I hope you (like Alice's caterpillar) pay words extra when you make them mean what you want rather than what they do.

Now, what is this "Ellah" word? So far I have been unable to find it is Hebrew. I have found the word "Elah" which means simply "god" (or more precisely an "awesome fearful one") and by itself does not necessarily refer to YHWH, but can refer to any "god" with a small "g" as well. In fact when used for YHWH it is usually in construct form such as "Elah Yisrael" (God of Israel).
So although the word "Eloi" in Hebrew refers only to YHWH, I will certainly grant that "elah" (any god you care to call on or refer to) may be the same as Allah in Arabic.

I've also answered your questions as well.

Matter properly closed.

I'd also remind you that Mo did not know his god's name.
If Allah really is the "God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob", why does the Shahada not say: "There is no God by YHWH..."?
Instead it is the rather lame sentence "There is no god but 'the God'...".
It would even have been better had it said "There is no god but Al-Rab..." (unless "Al-Rab" was an acknowldeged Pagan God of course"
At least then you could make the Al-Rab = Eloi = YHWH argument.
As it is there is nothing at all to link "Allah" to YHWH.

Amsterdam today 3rd.October,2009. My name Listiani Lestari id:530971312. Converted from Islam by my Dutch husband.

I say:

Welcome sister.

JONC WROTE: What rest of the verse? You said “from the first verse”. I quoted the first verse (Gen 1:1), you responded with Gen 1:11 et seq.

ANSWER: Jonc you see that was a metaphorical term, written at pace. I meant to say first chapter, but never the less you dont need to focus on that bit, you focus on the points that i have brough up .

JONC WROTE TO FIRST CONTRADICTION: 1. You omit verse 3 “Let there be light”. So light was there before before plants grew in the first place, in the second plants sprout without light.

ANSWER: I seriously dont understand what you wrote here. But let me assure you for vegitation to grow it needs light as vegitation grows through photosynthsis. It is scientific fact. Vegitation cannot blossom without light.

JONC WROTE TO SECOND CONTRADICTION: 2. So you’ve never seen anything under the illumination of moon-light?

ANSWER: Jonc your mis guided here again. The bible clearly says the following:

16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Do you jonc see the point where it says and god made TWO GREAT LIGHTS. the moon does not create its own light. That was the belief of people over many centuries ago. The quran clearly says the moon light is reflected light but the bible refers to the moon creating its own light.

JONC WROTE TO 3rd CONTRADICTION:3. The verse says God “rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.” a. Your objecting to God resting is based on your own assumptions, b. God only rested from the work he had done (read the verse).

ANSWER: God doesnt require to eat, sleep or rest. It is not my assumption. This is what it says in the bible and the quran :

Isaiah 40:28-31 (New International Version)

28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.

You see god doesnt get tired or weary. So little logic tells us that if you dont get tired, there is no requirement for you to rest.

So if you say god rested, than this verse is being contradicted and vice versa.

JONC WROTE: I’m not sure what “Eloi” translated into Arabic would be, but it ISN’T “Allah”. As you point out in a later post Lord translates as “Al-Rab”.
So what is your point?

ANSWER: That is not what i said. i clearly said saying YHWH is like saying AL RAB. And in regards to Eloi i gave you a website for you to look. Obviously you havent looked at it, because it shows clear translation from aramic to arabic.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/moongod1.htm

Here you will see the translation and the literal words used.

JONC WROTE: In your responose to TYKE you claim “there are other hadiths stating that ayesha was actually in the age range of 18 when she got marreid to muahmmed” reference please. I have searched Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDawd and Malik’s Muwatta and found nothing to contradict the Bukhari hadith that Aisha’s age at marriage was 6 and at consummation 9.

ANSWER: Do this because this would be nearly the 6th time i re-wrote the same passage about ayesha. Go to google and write: ayesha and age of marraige. or some other phrases. And you would come to a few results. No pick the sites that are not against islam but are actually run by muslims and not haters of islam and you will find your answers there. If you cannot that please scroll through someof the forums here and you will find my response.

In regards to the rest of your statement. You have just agreed with me that YHWH was a made up name to name god, which is similer to muslims saying al rab instead of allah. And the question was is YHWH ALLAH.

JONC WROTE: I’d also remind you that Mo did not know his god’s name.
If Allah really is the “God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob”, why does the Shahada not say: “There is no God by YHWH…”?
Instead it is the rather lame sentence “There is no god but ‘the God’…”.

ANSWER: Now i know for a fact you aint researched into anything. Because if you had you would know what the shahada is and why muslims translate it to god instead of allah. The reason why we translate it to god and not allah is because not many non-muslims know of islam up until 9/11 so if i was to say allah , non muslims would be confused. But if i was to say god they would know.

The shahada say La illah illlah: which if you do proper tranlsation says there is no god but allah.

Qur'an and Science: Moon Light is Reflected Light
Does the Qur'an reveal that the moon has reflected light while the sun is a source of light?

Sura 71:15-16, states:

See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,
and made the moon a light (noor) in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp (siraaj)?
The moon is called a light (Arabic: noor) and the sun a lamp (siraaj). Some Muslims claim that since the Qur'an uses different words speaking about the light of the sun and the light of the moon, it reveals that the sun is a source of light, while the moon only reflects light.

This claim is made on the two web sites listed at the end of this article, implied very strongly by Shabir Ally in his booklet Science in the Qur'an, and stated by Dr. Zakir Naik in his video Is the Qur'an God's Word? To support this Dr. Naik quotes Sura Al-Furqan 25:61 which says,

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies,
And placed therein a lamp (siraaj)
And a moon which has reflected light.
(Yusuf Ali says, "a Moon giving light")
Then Dr. Naik goes on to say, "The Arabic word for moon is 'qamar' and the light described there is 'muneer' which is borrowed light, or 'noor' which is a reflection of light."

Not only is this claimed to be a statement in keeping with scientific insight, it is claimed to be scientifically miraculous since this was supposedly only discovered relatively recently.

It is correct that the moon does not emit its own light but only reflects the light of the sun. But this was known already at least a thousand years before Muhammad, for example to the ancient Greek astronomers, and can hardly be called miraculous knowledge.

For example when Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) discussed the shape of the earth. One of his arguments to prove the earth's sphericity was the fact that during a lunar eclipse, as the moon enters or emerges from the earth's shadow, the shape of the shadow seen on the moon is always round. Only a spherical object always produces a round shadow. If the earth were a disk, for example, there would be some occasions when the sunlight would be striking the disk edge on, and the shadow on the moon would be a line.

It is clear from this information that Aristotle understood that the light coming from the moon was reflected light.

Why would the Qur'an just use different nouns, calling the moon "a light" and the sun "a lamp", to show this truth? If the author of the Qur'an wanted to convey this meaning, why does Allah not state it clearly? Why does it not say: "And the moon, its light is only a reflection from the light of the sun"? The words for "light" and "sun" are used many times in the Qur'an and there is an Arabic word for reflection (in`ikaas).

If we insist on scientific miracles, then we have the right to look for and expect scientific language and accuracy. So let us look at this in some more detail.

Do the Quranic words themselves support this claim?

muneer

The word "muneer" is used 6 times in the Qur'an. Four times, Suras 3:184; 22:8, 31:20, and 35:35 it is the phrase "kitab al-muneer" which Yusuf Ali translates as "a book of enlightenment" and Pickthall uses "the scripture giving light". Clearly this indicates a book which is radiating the light of knowledge. We already looked at Sura 25:61 where "qamar al-muneer" is translated as "a moon giving light". The sixth verse will be discussed below.

Thus we find that the Qur'an never says that the moon is not a light, and it never says that the moon reflects light. In fact, the Qur'an uses exactly the wrong language from a scientific point of view. It says in Suras 71:16 and 10:5 that Allah "made the moon a light" . However, in other verses the Qur'an says that Allah is a "noor", a light. Look at Sura An-Noor 24:35, one of the most beautiful passages in the Qur'an. It reads:

Allah is the Light (noor) of the heavens and the earth.
The Parable of His Light (noor) is as if there were a Niche
and within it a Lamp (misbah): the Lamp (misbah) enclosed in Glass:
the glass as it were a brilliant star:
Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive,
neither of the east nor of the west,
whose oil is well-nigh luminous,
though fire scarce touched it:
Light (noor) upon Light (noor)!
God does guide whom He will to His Light (noor):
God does set forth Parables for men: and God does know all things.
siraaj

Concerning the word "siraaj", in Suras 71:15-16 and 26:61 it is simply "lamp" referring to the sun. In Sura 78:13 "siraajan wahhajan" means "a dazzling lamp", again indicating the sun.

If you continue to insist that "noor" (used for the moon) means borrowed or reflected light, in comparison to the word (siraaj = lamp) used for the sun, consider the following verses.

In Sura 24:35 we read that "Allah is the light (noor) of the heavens and the earth." If "noor" means reflected light, what is the source of this light (siraaj) which Allah is only a reflection of?

Think about it. Why is Allah called "noor" and not "siraaj"? Who? What is the "siraaj"?

Well the Qur'an tells us who the "siraaj" is, but the answer will shock you. In Sura 33:45-46 we find:

O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness,
a Bearer of Glad Tidings and a Warner
and as one who invites to Allah's (Grace) by His leave
and as a lamp spreading light.
"And as a lamp spreading light" in Arabic is "wa siraajan muneeran".

Linguistically, this is the end of the discussion. Here "siraaj" and the adjective "muneer" are used together for the same shining object. It is ridiculous to try to maintain that "muneer" implies reflection rather than its own brilliance.

And spiritually, if you insist that the Arabic words "noor" and "muneer" imply "reflected light, then based on the use of these words in the Qur'an, Muhammad is like the sun, and Allah is like the moon.

Do Muslims really want to say that Muhammad is the source of light, and Allah is only his reflection.

Why are these so called scientific claims made which no Muslim can support if he makes a serious study of his own Qur'an? It makes honest discussion very difficult.

Jochen Katz, William F. Campbell M.D.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some Muslim web sites, publications and videos propagating this claim:

http://members.tripod.com/~bensG/islam7.html
http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~bakal/islam/science/exp_nature.html
Science in the Qur'an, Shabir Ally, Islamic Information and Da'wah Centre International, 1996, Toronto, Ontario, pp. 32-34

Video: Is the Qur'an God's Word?, Dr. Zakir Naik, Islamic Research Foundation, 1995, 56 Tandel Street North, Dangri, Bombay - 400 009, India

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also: Rebuttal to Shabir Ally regarding his polemic against the greater and the lesser light.

all what i can say Bravo Mr London spirit these cowered they are speechless,when they have nothing to say they start bubbling and posting other sites...By the way i used to come here just to have fun and laugh at these stupid people...and now i'm back because i feel like i need some relief moreover it's a free comedy to enjoy your free time...
I guess many of these junk know me by my nickname among them marie,abu kamuna...etc.

i'll be right back.

LS some of the murders Mohammad initiated/ approved of:As a supposedld Muslim scholar you need tyo read more!
bn Ishaq makes it clear that as the Prophet of Allah grew in power no opposition was allowed. For example one woman by the name of Asma bint Marwan, who was a suckling mother, criticized Muhammad’s killing of people.
This criticism angered the Prophet of Allah so he asked, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” Umayr went to her house that night and killed her. [675-676]1. People such as Abu Afak [Ishaq 675 and Kitab al- Tabqat vol 2 Ibn Sa’d (2) page 32) ] and Al-Harith bin [son of] Suwayd bin Samit,(Ishaq 135-6,162-3, 308-312, 675) who wrote some poetry which Muhammad disliked were killed.
Other cases include the killing  of
§       Uqba bin Abu Mu’ayt [Ishaq 164, 308];
§       Ka’b bin al-Ashraf [Ishaq 366-368,  Also Bukhari 5/369,372 and Ibn Sa’d vol 1, p37)
§        Mirba bin Qayzi [Ishaq 372-373];
§       Sallam Ibn Abu’l-Huqayq [Ishaq 369, 482-483];
§        Kinana bin al-Rabi-tortured then murdered  [Ishaq 510-517];
§       One-Eyed Shepherd [Ishaq 674-675];
§       Abdullah bin Khatal and one of his Two Singing Girls [Ishaq 551];
§       al-Huwayrith [Ishaq 551];
§       Sara, a Freed Slave [Ishaq 551].
§       Umaiya bin Khalaf Abi Safwan (Bukhari 4/826)
§       Amr B. Jihash (Ishaq 438) (a convert to Islam killed on the suspicion he might harm Mohammad)
§       Ibn Sunayna (Ishaq 369 and Abu Dawud 19/2996)
§       Abullah b Sa’d (one of the scribes)  ordered to be killed, but protected by Uthman (Ishaq 550)

Jonc, you make LondonSpirit work hard for his convictions. I like your play with words:

"Make up your mind LS. I hope you (like Alice’s caterpillar) pay words extra when you make them mean what you want rather than what they do."

Actually, it is a problem we all face, that of meaning of words to ourselves and what actually do mean, of course. And in general, I know LS acknowledges this also.

Jonc, Light and Kafir123 have been debating long, deeply, with THE TRUTH, a Muslim who is all for proof and logic. And he has berated the FFI-forum-members for lack of that. He keeps saying "When you make a claim, you have to give the proof for it". He implicitly or explicitly goes on to say that all arguments by his opponents are null and void, as if never mentioned. Either that or the evidence presented is fabricated according to him. Light and Kafir123 were already very very good in responding to him. I would like to see you and Wanderer also some time in the future with him. Hell, even Ali Sina could consider taking on this guy. He seems to be very strong to me. And remember, debate is all about informing, influencing the observers, not really about winning, until the opponent cries mercy and sues for peace.

ASUS FOR CHRIST: I assume your a christian. Mate can i say to you answer what it says in the bible. God has made two lights, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser to rule the night. Dont comment on what the quran says. Answer the question:. Jonc seems to have left the discussion, so now you answer it:.Not even einstein can answer this because it clearly says god has made two lights:

As for the quran verses, none of them says that allah created two lights, one for the moon and one for the sun, which is clearly written in the bible.

One of The quran translation says

[25:61] Most blessed is the One who placed constellations in the sky, and placed in it a lamp, and a shining moon.

So even if it dont say reflected light it just says shinning moon. and other tranlsations say giving light. It still doesnt contradict with modern science. Because yes during the night we see the shinning moon and it does release light which is reflected from the sun. But this light is not generated from its own source as the bible clearly says.

I myself dont know arabic so i aint going to go further and prove to you that it sys reflected light hence forth is a miracle, but looking through tranlsations I can say whther it is a miracle or not it doesnt contradict with science. Whereby the bible clearly does.

Dear planet fellows, i personally think that all the religions included ISLAM and CRISTIANITY are DRAMA.but i belive that some one is CREATER over there OR over here.and we don't know him till now.and we can't.........................i can prove it..........

Londonspirirt try and check out this site
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science10.htm
I do not like the attitude of religions claiming their holy books contain science because if I sat down and moved through my Bible vigorously I will come up with 1001 'scientific discoveries'. Some of this discoveries are misconceptions or popular beliefs held by the ancients some of which are correct in the light of modern day science . Others arent. The Bible has some verses which give us the idea that the earth is spherical, Isaiah 40:22. I could go on and on to claim 'science' for the Bible but I think it has been known to man since the beginning of time that there is a creator up there and a power who supercedes man's understanding and abilities. Misconceptions have arisen about this 'Higher Being' and this misconceptions are found in many religions (including Christianity of today). But Islam is a religion which does not allow many of its followers recieve a clear picture of the Creator especially fanatical(actually pure Islam). As a Christian I personally know and acknowledge that the God-Jesus relationship has given many headache infact it is one of the 'Achilles heel' of many Christians when trying to defend their faith or to share the Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ. I will try and explain my view as briefly as I can . Jesus was a man in whom God dwelt. God is omnipotent and his ability and capabilties exceed human understanding. Many verses show the divine nature of Jesus(which is actually due to the presence of God in him). Other verses show him as a man( he was born of Mary - a human).At the cross Jesus became a mortal and had to sacrifice his divine powers before facing the cross that was why he said 'My God , My God why hast thou forsaken me'. He conquered death, the devil and all forces of darkness claiming the triumph and victory for human something no other human could do( he was without sin).He gave this power to all who believe in him but unfortunately many Christians are ignorant of their rights and abilties in Christ. Some also are ignorant of the fact that after recieving Christ thay are still humans and have many temptations and trials(some think themselves superhuman already). On the statement by Jesus to the rich man 'Why callest thou me good, no man is good only God is good'. Note 1. Jesus did not say I am not good. 2. Jesus did not say I am not God. Jesus gave this man time to understand that it was not the fleshy Jesus that is good but the God that dwelt in him. Try Checking Colossians 1:1-20. After Jesus arose as a mortal he went to his fatherand his God. When he says'I ascend to my Father, My God and your God' When Jesus says my God he refers to the God that was in him, the God whom Mary Magdalene a Jew worshiped. On his ascension the human/fleshy Jesus was greatly honored by God(that dwelt in him) and as promised in the prophesy of Isaih (about 700B.C)he was greatly honored with power. He practically became God but instead of us having " Gods he reigns in conjunction and in unity with God. Somewhere after his ressurection I remeber him saying "All power in Heaven and earth is given unto me'.What! He had become a god(more appopriately God). Some people say why did Jesus say he did not know the hor of Jedgement. The fleshy/human Jesus didnot know the dte he claimed only the father knew but dont forget he said I am in thefather and the father is in me. So the Father(God) in Jesus knew but did not want the fleshy Jesus to reveal the date.(ie it was not part of the misssion of the human Jesus) Remember him saying somwhere 'I am in the Father and the Father is in me'. When Paul says the God of our Lord Jesushe is not telling us that there are 2 Gods but he refers to the God which dwelt in Jesus. We also see verses like 'How God annointed Jesus of Nazareth with power and the Holy Ghost who went about doing good and healing those who were oppressed of Devils'. True, God anointed Jesus but this time in a way different from other previous prophets because God resided inside the fleshy Jesus.The angle or perspective from which Jesus is viewed in this verses is from a human perspective i.e seeing the anointing of God in the fleshy Jesus. Previous prophets recievd the guidance and direction as the spirit of God was 'upon' their lives not 'inside' their lives. Many of Jesus miracles show adistinguished unusual presence of God in the life of a 'prophet'.How did he know a fish was swimming in a river with a gold coin in its mouth and the fish would be caught by Peter. How was he able to bend the universal law of gravity and walk on Water and even sponsored Peter's walk on water. To some extent I can even claim this great 'moves' by Jesus motivated many Christians, Jews and even some atheists to research more about the nature of their universe. That is why we see agreat pioneering and pivotal scientific achievements coming from the Western socirty which had Christianity as one of its major influences. He claimed he had the power to forgive sins. I think it is the height of deceit by the Devil and his cohorts of Darkness to make one believe that a man born by a virgin is no different from other men . The Devil has carefully and brilliantly designed Islam so that it has a god which seems the same as the God of the Christians or Jews meanwhile the Quran exhibits alot of verses which show hatred and disgust for The Nasaras and the Yahuds.But what about Jesus praying to God. Most times we see when he prayed he withdrew himself to some lonely place or mountain. Threre he went to recharge his batteries and get the message clearly that God inside him wanted the fleshy Jesus to pass across to his followers.Other times his prayers can be seen as an example of him teaching us how we should pray and request things from God. Examplary life is actually the best method of teaching. The Quran was written almost 600 or even more years after Jesus and till date we have early Christian manuscripts dating up to 200A.D. Which is more logical to believe? The testimony of men who lived during or near the time of Jesus or a man (Mohammed) who after hearing Jewish and Christian stories (most likely on his trips for Khadija or from Khadija's brother whom I heard was a Christian) , a man who said 'I feared I must have been possesed' and when he came out of the cave Khadija and others(just imagine, people who were not in the cave) claim it was the 'angel Jibreel(Gabriel)' who appeared to him.Remember the 'angel' forced him and almost choked him to read the first verse of revelation. This is never the characteristic of angels of my God YHWH. It was clearly a demon. The nature of the revelations- Muhammed was depressed, sad and often foamed at his mouth are clear evidences of demonic possession or a mental condition. Red the Bible story of Jesus delivering the epileptic boy you would see what I am talking about. I have visited Osama Abdullah's answering Christianity site and each time I am there I feel cold. Not because I don't know the Jesus I serve but because of his blatant errrors on the Bible and his pseudo-manipulation of Bible verses so as to demonise the Bible or inflict injury on the personality of Jesus. I do not have enough time to rebute all his claims(which I can) but let me highlight three gross and annoying errors on his site. He claimed Jesus was a racist for calling the Syrophoenician woman a dog. Jesus never did so. He said earlier on ' I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel . One of his most important tasks was to deliver Israel. So when he says ' It is not good to give unto the dogs the meat meant for the children'. He makes it known that the Jews are a special people who have a covenant with God YHWH and they are actually to recieve special blessings and visitations from God which are not usually given to Gentiles. Secondly hetests the woman's faith. The woman did not outsmart Jesus as Osama Abdullah claims but she gave awise response indicating that even the dogs can eat what falls of the table' . She wisely knew she was the one seeking something and went at all costs to get it. Jesus commended her and within nanoseconds her daughter probably some kilometres aways recieves her helaing. Osama claims that Christians are immoral and they are responsible for a world moral decay and sexual diseases. I urge him to take a look at how Christians in the past even up to 20th century dressed and he will open his eyes that it is not the Christian doctrine that it the fault and problem but that the free world in which we live this days. Many called for separation of Church and State so as to reduce the oppression of the 'Church' on the progress of science. Many religious Church leaders were becoming power and money corrupt and did thing like issuing condolences for sin. The case of Galileo is also a pitiable one but in all this it is not the doctrine of Christ but that of the attitude of the religious leaders that spurred this great troubles. Many true Christians good moral conduct (just as any To Dick and Harry) can not because of fear or desire to appear righteous before others but because thier God Jesus has transformed their hearts.It is great to see many Christian girls stand firm and keep their virginity in afree and secular world where they can be immoral without being 'stoned' or 'hanged'. What do you think will happen to Muslim girls if they do not have all the threat of stoning and hanging? What do you think will happen if they are not locked up in their harems etc. Agreed many will still be virtuous but many will loose their virginity before they enter their husband's house. Currently a virginity-faking device has been invented be the Chinese lets watch how the Islamic world will thrive. What I am saying is Islam depends on a series of laws and punishments to keep many 'faithfuls' in line but Christian don't need threats to live an acceptable life before God.Also a common misconception in the Islamic brain is that every Westerner is A Christian. Many Westerners are not Christians and many who claim to be 'Christian' are not. Osama Abdullah also claimed Jesus was wicked for sending the demons of the man of Gardarenes into the pigs. I agree it caused loss for the owners of the pig.But remember Pigs are unclean animals according to Jewish laws and even Muslims don't eat pork so what is the use of pigs- be born, grow up and die. The demons after worshipping Jesus begged him not to send them to a place in the spiritual world where Jesus must have known will be very terrible to this demons. So since the time of Judgement was not yet he allowed the demons to reside in the pigs and from thence the Water as many 'free' demons still roam the earth. The summary is Jesus healed a man who was a serious menace to the populace but instead of them to appreciate the miracle they counted their economic loss and thus urged Jesus to depart from their coasts. Jesus shows us here that a human worths more to him more than thousands of pigs. many other thing's Osama Abdullah says that just make my heart chill because many muslims will be rejoicing that they have found a 'scholarly' way to argue with Christians but mature Christians some well versed in the Bible and with the Holy Spirit's understanding are able to explain the scriptures clearly. Still many muslims with 'coconut' hearts and mind will keep arguing and might seem right. My advice for such muslims is that given by my great Master- 'Pull out the log in your eyes that you may see the speck in ur brothers eye'. This is because if Christians or even atheists handle their Quran and Hadiths properly they will squeeze out ocean of errors, fallcies, superstition and pseudo-miracles. If you can debunk all the claims on www.islam-watch.org or www.answering-islam.org. I will drop all accusations against Muhammed and Islam. I love Muslims and all humans round the world. Many muslims especially those in the West are already trying to tailor Islam for the Western world, they are actually practicing a 'Christianized' version of Islam. I have heard some say they do not want the Sharia law and they believe they are true Muslims. God help them . I do not claim my Bible is without inconsistencies but on the overall I get a good image of my God Jesus and his overall will for mankind. jesus gives amessage of hope, healing and love I cannot imagine the state many humans will be in without Jesus. Many claim Jesus is a myth but if he is a myth, he must be the best myth ever formulated. Humanity needs this myth or 'opium' as Karl Marx would say for their miseries and sufferings. However Jesus is very real to me I have seen his power demonstrated on many occasions. This site is not designed to make Muslims become Christians. It is simply designed to help them come out of the dark message of True Islam and embrace humanity. Also try visiting www.carm.org

Indo dari amsterdam
holland spreaken....

LS, post 25066

Ok, fair comment. I accept you meant Chapter 1 not "from first verse" literally. To be honest I was pulling your leg on that a bit. :-)

Contra1: Well, my point was this: If the production of light is before the growth of plants (v3 to v6) then the plants had light in which to grow. Does that clarify adequately for you.

Contra2: Beg to differ.The Bible merely states that there are "two great lights" (Sun / Moon). Would you disagree? Are there any "lights" brighter in our skies? Now I grant (obviously) that moon-light is (partially) reflected sunlight (it has a different spectrum to sunlight btw), but so what?
You are reading too much into the verse.

Contra 3. You've missed the point. I agree that God does not weary or tire. However the word "rest" here does not mean that God stopped doing anything - just that he stopped creating the this Universe. He may have created/be creating others, but sound science says we will never know. So what is your point? Read the verse carefully.

Ayesha's age at marriage: Pardon me, you are the one making the statement without evidence. I cannot provide evidence for something that isn't there - a Hadith from Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDowd or Malik to support your contention that she was a teenager.
All evidence to the contrary has involved a number of calculations about various ages-at-death etc and is derived. Are you rally standing that up against a clear, unequivocal "Sahih" Hadith?

Actually YHWH is NOTHING like "Al-Rab". I've dealt with this at length in another thread and do not intend to repeat that here. YHWH is NOT a "made up name", it is the name God gives himself in the Bible.
This is fact, LS, if you don't believe me read a more literal translation, I recommend the New Jerusalem Bible which does not follow the Hebrew tradition of replacing "YHWH" with "The LORD".

You wrote: "The shahada say La illah illlah: which if you do proper tranlsation says there is no god but allah."
Strange! I thought "illah" meant "the God" and that Allah was a contraction of this. So several Muslims have told me.

Post 25463: errata I meant "I've dealt with this in another post ..." not "in another thread..."

With regard to the Shahada again: One of the earliest translation of the Shadada (into Greek) (by a muslim) occurred in the reign of al-Walid (86-96 AH). (See Wiki for example.)
It reads "Οὐκ ἔστιν θεὸς εἰ μὴ ὁ θεὸς μόνος· Μααμὲτ ἀπόστολος θεοῦ",
or in transliteration to Roman characters: "Ouk estin theos ei mē ho theos monos, Maamet apostolos theou" , in English:"There is no God except for God alone, Mahommed is God's apostle".
The interesting point to this is that "Mohammed" is transliterated as "Maamet", (Μααμὲτ), whereas "Allah" is translated as "ho theos"; literally "the god", rather than being translitered as "ἀλλἀ".
Thus this translation does not consider "Allah" to be a name at all.

Asus: Thank you for your posts, highly informative (esp. the first). I ahve copied that one for myself

Ok LS,
I have now had time to read the site you mentioned.
What is really nice is how it supports the point that "Elah" is a generic name for god, the same as "Allah" the arabic form of the Aramaic.
What the site does NOT point out however, is that in the Books of Ezra and Daniel the word "Elah" when referring to YHWH does so in construct form (God of Heaven, God of my Fathers, God of gods, etc). The only occurences when "Elah" is used on its own is when the word "god" is used in a generic sense.
This is entirely consistent with the Hebrew aversion to saying the true name (YHWH) of God aloud.

So you are right, I'll concede the point. "Elah" = Allah, thus Allah means 'a god', rather than The God (YHWH) of the Bible.

To return to the verse you quoted, Ex3.15 "“…You are to tell the Israelites, YHWH, the God of your ancestors…”
this verse is one where YHWH is speaking to Moses.
The point here is that the God speaking to Moses gives Moses his (God's) name (YHWH) so that the Israelites can be sure that he (Moses) is speaking for their God - YHWH.
Thus, from this alone, it follows that YHWH is not a made-up name or an Honorific like "Eloi" / "Al-RAb" (The LORD) nor a mere descriptor like "elah" / "Allah" ("god" in generic sense), but a personal name.

So, far from agreeing with you that YHWH is a made up name, what this shows is that the "God of Abraham, ... Isaac and ... Jacob" has a revealed name - YHWH.
#24851, (because the text does use "YHWH" not "Eloi)" but he then said I'd agreed with him.

WE CAN NO LONGER REMAIN SILENT.

Islam treats women like a bunch of animals. There exists enough space in the Qur'an in favor of gender equality. If the situation remains unchanged. Islam will face dramatic irreparable consequences that can bring Islam to a complete isolation and high risk of extinction. The claims of injustice towards women in the Islamic World has become a common topic throughout the civilized society gaining strong support in Europe, mainly Amsterdam.

I refer to the Netherlands Anti-Islam Front Line Fighters established by myself Listiani Lestari Id:530971312.
Converted from Islam by my Dutch husband. and in our struggle of creating enough awareness in the emancipation for women-rights in Islamic-World today.

We must look back to the history of Islam and it's founder who was a mass murderer, a rapist, a blasphemer and a pedophile who married nine year old Aisha and married again with Javaerah his slave. At the age of forty said to have received para normal revelations to conduct his followers into a Cult of bloodshed entertainment.

We are conveying an urgent warning to the Council of Islam Leaders and urge them to stop terrorizing our
suffering Nation in Indonesia. A Nation battered by natural disasters and heavy earthquakes. While Islam
sends Human-Mobile-Bombs in revenge against America and in their satanic hatred towards America. The Jehaad Islamiah bomb America in Jakarta and in Bali in a theater of wanton destruction and damage local infrastructure of Tourism and Indonesian economy.

Faith and violence is the true nature of Islam today. Unless, Islam will not respect and adapt the International Human Rights Regulation Act and condemns all it's antagonistic approach. Islam will be devastated.

Amsterdam today 12th.October,2009. Listiani Lestari.

well i will show only one point to prove you wrong.
you point out this verse

Q.2: 278. O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains from Ribâ (usury) if you are believers”

and want to prove that if this verse came after 5:3 then how 5:3 said Religion was complete

well you forget to search that 2:78 was not the first place where usury was discussed

it was already forbidden in following verse.
[3:130] O you who believe, you shall not take usury, compounded over and over. Observe GOD, that you may succeed.