Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 6
Submitted by Ali Sina on Fri, 04/03/2009 - 06:00
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ALI SINA’S ARGUMENTS
In Ali Sina’s book he references quotations from the Quran in a desperate attempt to undermine Muhammad’s character. On page 61 Ali Sina gives us his interpretations, which are misleading to say the least, on certain verses from the Quran. What I would like to do now is quote Ali Sina and see if that is what the Quran is implying.
1. Ali Sina says the following:
Muhammad regarded himself as Khayru-l-Khalq (the Best of Creation), an “excellent example” (Q.33:21)
Chapter 33, verse 21 says the following:
‘indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the last day and remembers Allah much’
Where does it reference Muhammad as being the best of creation here? The verse simply says that one should emulate Muhammad, if he/she hopes to meet Allah. Like true Christians who strive to emulate Christ, Muslims strive to emulate Muhammad.
Ali Sina
The term Khayru-l-Khalq is not in the verse 33:21. That verse talks about Muhammad’s “excellent example.” You can find this title in many Islamic sites such as http://www.livingislam.org/n/bc_e.html which says,
One of the names by which the Prophet Muhammad is known - upon him blessings and peace - is Khayru-l-Khalq or "Best of Creation." Other similar names of him with identical meaning are Khayru-l-Bariyya, Khayru Khalqillah, Khayru-l-`Alamina Turra, Khayru-n-Nas, Khayru Hadhihi-l-Umma, and Khîratullah. These titles refers to his high status over all human Prophets and Messengers as well as over the Jinn and angels - upon them peace.
Even if you argue that this title is not in the Quran, there are plenty of other similar titles that highlight Muhammad's sense of self importance and grandiosity in the Quran that I have quoted in my book.
Donald Morgan
2. Ali Sina then says the following:
explicitly or implicitly hinted to be “exalted above other prophets in degrees” (Q.2:253)
Chapter 2, verse 253 says the following:
‘Those messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of the Allah spoke (directly); others he raised to degrees (of honor); and to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), we gave clear proofs and evidences and supports him with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel)’
Where does it say explicitly or implicitly that Muhammad is exalted above all others? The verse simply says that Allah has preferred some prophets over others. God spoke to Moses directly and sent revelations to Noah and others. This verse is explaining god’s various degrees of interaction with his prophets. It does not say what you claim it says Ali Sina.
Ali Sina
The verse 2:253 says
تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم
This verse translates as: “Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others.”
Did Muhammad consider other prophets to be superior to him? No. While describing his hallucinatory journey to Heaven, Muhammad claimed that he led a congregational prayer where all the prophets lined up behind him and he was their imam. This clearly shows his desire to be seen as superior to other prophets.
Narcissists hide behind a façade of false modesty, but they reveal their true sense of grandiosity and entitlement through anecdotes and hints. So on one hand Muhammad would say there is no difference between the prophet (that is when he wants to elevate himself to their rank). On the other hand he made up stories to give the idea that he is superior to them, without saying this openly. If Muslims tell you that they regard Muhammad at the same rank of Moses and Jesus, they are lying. Muslims praise is only for Muhammad and NEVER for Jesus, Moses or any other prophet.
Donald Morgan
3. Ali Sina then says the following:
He claimed to be “the preferred one” (Q.17:55)
Chapter 17, verse 55 says the following:
‘And your lord knows best all who are in the heavens and the earth. And, indeed, we have preferred some of the prophets above others, and to Dawud (David) we gave the Zabur (Psalms)’
Where does it refer to Muhammad as being the preferred one in this verse? The explanation of this verse is exactly the same as the explanation of the verse quoted before this one. Indeed god has interacted with the prophets in different ways. He spoke directly to some, like Moses and indirectly, through Gabriel to others, like Jesus and Muhammad. This verse, and the one before it speak to various levels in which God interacted with his prophets.
Ali Sina
The same response about Question 3 applies also here. In these verses we see Muhammad is establishing the claim that some prophets are afzal, i.e. superior to other prophets. Once that premise is established then through hints like the story of Mi’raj and how other prophets revered him and how no other prophet but him is given the power of intercession he made his hidden agenda known. These are all part of the manipulative game that narcissists play. Not really difficult to detect. Children often are expert in these mind games. We played these mind games ourselves when we were children.
Donald Morgan
4. Ali Sina then says the following:
to have been risen “to a praised estate” (Q.17:79) – a station which he said none but he would receive – and this is the Station of Intercession at the right hand of the Almighty next to his Glorious Throne. In other words, he would be the person who would advise God as to who should be sent to Hell and who should be admitted to Heaven.
Chapter 17, verse 79 says the following:
‘And in some parts of the night (also) offer the salat (prayer) with it (i.e recite the Quran in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer – Nawafil) for you (O Muhammad). It may be that your lord will raise you to Maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory, i.e the highest degree in paradise)’
This verse clearly says that Muhammad will be raised to the highest degree in paradise but it does not say he will be at the right hand of the almighty and it does not say he (Muhammad) will be charged with advising god as to who should be entered into heaven and who should be sent to hell, as Ali Sina says it does. Ali Sina’s explanation, however, comes to us from a Hadith but Ali Sina’s interpretation of that Hadith is incorrect.
Ali Sina
So what is your point? Are you saying that I am libeling Muhammad and he did not claim to be the intercessor in the Day of Judgment?
The claim that Muhammad has the power of intercede may not be explicit in this verse but it is in many other verses, such as 2:255, 10:3, 19:85-87, 20:109, 21:25-29, 34:23. This subject is exhaustively discussed in my debate with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and Dr. Khalid Zaheer. Anyone interested can read that debate here.
Donald Morgan
If we look at Sahih Bukari, Vol. 6, Hadith No. 242 we read:
‘Narrated Ibn Umar: ‘On the day of resurrection the people will fall to their knees and every nation will follow their prophet and they will say, “O so-and-so! Intercede (for us with Allah)”, till (the right) of intercession will be given to the prophet (Muhammad) and that will be the day when Allah will raise him to maqaman Mahmuda (a situation of praise and glory).’
Where does it state that Muhammad will be at the right hand of the almighty here, as Ali Sina says? The reason Ali Sina purposely says this is to incite hatred towards the Muslims from the Christians because the Christians believe that Jesus alone is at the right hand of the almighty. Shame on you Ali Sina for trying to incite such anger amongst your Christian readers!
Ali Sina
Who do you think you are to say shame on me? I wasted so much time responding to you drivel and this is my reward. This is the same person who started his message saying he wants to have a scholarly debate. You don’t know what that word meas..
Muhammad denies Jesus's claim to be the son of God, and pooh-poohs a fundamental teaching of Christianity, which is the Ttrinity. He denies that Jesus was crucified. He calls the Christians "gone astray" and invokes on them the wrath of God (Q. 1:7) Muslims recite this verse every day as their prayer. Muhammad said, may Allah destroy the Christians for calling Jesus son of God. (Q.9:30) He tells his zombie followers to fight the Christians and the Jews “until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.”(Q.9:29) He says their religion will not be accepted and in the next world they will be among the losers (Q. 3:85). And at least three times he calls the Jews pigs and monkeys. None of these blesphemies, insults and incites are hatemongering, not even the continuous persecution, genocide and massacre of the Christians throughout the Muslim wolrd. But if I point out to the fact that Muhammad considered himself superior to Jesus that is hate mongering and this jerk takes the liberty to insult me. See what Islam does to people?
Donald Morgan
Also, what is meant by intercession? It does not mean that Muhammad will have say over who goes to paradise and who goes to hell. It simply means that Muhammad will intercede on behalf of every man, in an attempt to gain favor from Allah for that man. Think of it like a courtroom; where Allah is the judge and mankind is the defendant. Who in the courtroom intercedes for the defendant? The defense lawyer, of course. The defense lawyer tries his/her best to show that their client, the defendant is innocent and should be set free. The same applies here; Muhammad will intercede on behalf of mankind to try and show god that every person is worthy of paradise. Although Muhammad will do this, it doesn’t ensure that a person will enter paradise as the final judgment belongs to Allah and Allah only.
Ali Sina
I had this discussion with Mr. Javed Ahmad Ghamedi and he is one of the top scholars of Islam. He could not solve this problem. Go and read that debate before making more fool of yourself!
Muhammad will intercede on behalf of Mankind? Is he kinder than God to humanity?
Donald Morgan
Do these verses in the Quran prove Muhammad suffers from NPD? If you believe Ali Sina’s lies, half truths and twisted interpretations then it may but if you, the reader investigates these facts, you will undoubtedly see that these examples Ali Sina gives prove nothing for his case. I am not surprised that Ali Sina would resort to this type of dirty tactic. In my vast experience in debating the Christian missionary, I have found that people who try to disprove Islam do so by providing lies, half truths and twisted interpretations. It is indeed a shame that such obvious tactics are still being used by the likes of Ali Sina to try and prove a point!
If you have Ali Sina’s book go this page and notice the fact that what I mentioned above was not fully quoted from the Quran. Ali Sina has simply made a statement and attached a Quranic reference to it. Why Would Ali Sina do this? Why wouldn’t he quote the entire verse he attaches to his statement, so the readers can read it and agree/disagree that this is what the Quran says? Ali Sina is hoping that his reader will take what he says as being the truth. Once again, he is depending on his readers lack of investigation into what the Quran says in the attached Quranic references he provides. If you look at the bottom of this page he quotes the Quran to try and prove a point. Why wasn’t this done with the previous Quranic references he gave on the same page?
Ali Sina
Whenever I say something is in the Quran I give a reference. The Quran is a book that is available to anyone. It is only a click away. Any person whose brain is not clogged by religious cholesterol can see that the verses say exactly what I say. I have tried to make sure that as much as it is possible all the references in my book (there are close to 400) can be found on the Internet so people can easily verify them. In a few cases, such as when I had to quote the Tabaqat or Tabari, the references are made to my books. I could not find these books online.
Donald Morgan
Ali Sina also makes several fallacious statements about Muhammad. He desperately tries to disguise his own opinion about Muhammad by indirectly inferring that what he says comes from a reputable source. I want the reader to remember that the quotations I pull from Ali Sina’s book have NO footnote or reference from an alternative source. These are merely the biased opinions of Ali Sina. As we all know, anyone can have an opinion, but is that opinion sound? In these cases they are not sound because Ali Sina fails to provide proof or footnotes to back up his sensational claims.
Ali Sina says the following statements about Muhammad, without reference:
Page 62 (sayings of Muhammad)
‘The very first thing that Allah Almighty ever created was my soul.’
‘First of all things, the Lord created my mind.’
‘Just as Allah created me noble, he also gave me noble character.’
Ali Sina
The reference to these quotes are included in the footnote of my book. You failed to pay attention. Here is the passage.
· The very first thing that Allâh Almighty ever created was my soul.
· First of all things, the Lord created my mind.
· I am from Allâh, and the believers are from me.1
· Just as Allâh created me noble, he also gave me noble character.
· Were it not for you, [O Muhammad] I would not have created the universe.2
1- The first three sentences are in http://www.muhammadanreality.com/creationofmuhammadanreality.htm
2- The last two sentences are in Tabaqat V. 1, p. 364
You are a sloppy researcher.
I am quite aware how Muslims, failing to respond to my charges, will do their best to find a single minor error in my book to discredit it altogether. So I took care that everything I say is referenced properly.
Donald Morgan
Page 66
‘Ironically, Muhammad preached against associating partners with Allah, when, in fact, he portrayed himself as the partner of Allah in a manner which made them logically and practically inseparable.’
What Ali Sina has done is cunning and calculating in nature. He has mixed what he contends is ‘factual’ information along with his own baseless and fallacious opinion in an attempt to make blurry what is fact and what is fiction. There are many other places in this chapter where Ali Sina tries to mix his own unqualified opinion with ‘factual’ information so that the reader can’t distinguish or make the difference between the two. If these examples of your fallacious opinions are indeed factual in nature, provide us with a reputable reference that says what you say Ali Sina!
Ali Sina
You are wrong and blinded by your hatred. The following is the comment of one of the readers on my book published on Amazon.com’
“No facts are assumed in this book. Opinions are stated as opinions and facts stated as facts and questions stated as questions. The only pursuit involved in this book is that of the absolute truth for a logical mind.”
Donald Morgan
Not only does Ali Sina resort to this dirty tactic when describing Muhammad, he does so with regards to what narcissism or NPD really is. He injects his own unqualified opinions on narcissism and NPD in very much the same way. He tries to, once again, mix his opinion with what he calls ‘factual’ information (I already proved that his main source Dr. Sam Vaknin, fake Ph.D is not a qualified or reputable source) in an attempt to make the two undistinguishable. Here are some examples of this dirty tactic. Again, notice that there are NO footnotes or references mentioned for his opinion, disguised as facts.
Ali Sina
Now, that is funny. So you are also questioning my knowledge of NPD? What is your qualification? The only knowledge you have about this subject is by following the link that I gave you to DSM and reading one page from that manual. You have even the chutzpa to berate Dr. Vaknin, when he is hailed by major scientific journals and his opinion is sought by at least 1000 mental health professionals? Shouldn’t you stick to Islam and discuss Muhammad's pedophilia instead? Who are you to question Vaknin when there is not a single mental health professional that disagrees with his definition of NPD? But a jerk like you who has read just one introductory page to NPD from DSM is already qualified to decide who is qualified and who is not.
Do you really have to opine on things you have no clue? It only makes you look foolish!
Donald Morgan
Page 63
‘A narcissist may seem to be self-confident and even accomplished. In reality he (narcissists are predominantly male) suffers from a great deficit of self-esteem and needs an outside supply of adulation, constantly seeking admiration.’
Page 65
‘The Narcissist knows that direct self-promotion will be seen as repulsive and will be rejected. Instead, he presents himself as a modest, almost self-effacing person, one in the service of God, nation or humanity.’
Page 68
‘Narcissists invent fictitious gods and spurious causes. The more they elevate their false deities and glorify their causes, the more power they can obtain for themselves.’
These, and other statements are nothing more than the ravings of Ali Sina, as they do not come from a secondary source. Although Ali Sina makes indirect reference to Dr. Sam Vaknin, he does not come out and say that this is what Dr. Sam Vaknin says. Even if he were to do so, I’ve already exposed Dr. Sam Vaknin as being unqualified to speak on the subject of mental disorders. So Ali Sina’s statements are based on an unqualified source, making them invalid as factual information.
Ali Sina
So now you are also a mental health professional and question my definition of narcissism!? Can you ask someone with an actual diploma to dispute those definitions? How can you disagree with what I say when you have no university qualification whatsoever and not just in psychology? I know close to nothing about physics. Wouldn’t it be foolish of me to write a dissertation trying to refute Steven Hawkins? What if I read a few pages on the subject from an online site? No, still I would not be qualified to opine on Hawkins or physics. My brother in law is a highly reputable psychiatrist. He is topnotch and one of the best. He is expensive. In one day he makes more money than most professionals make in a month. But narcissism is not his field, so he refused to opine on a subject that is not his specialty. But a Mr. nobody like you can already qualify and disqualify professionals who are highly respected by their peers. If I am not mistaken Gabriel must be visiting you too. The other illiterate man who knew everything and had the knowledge of the unseen was Muhammad.
Ali Sina says Muhammad will
Ali Sina says
Muhammad will intercede on behalf of Mankind? Is he kinder than God to humanity?
This is one of those things which used to irk me a lot when I was still a Muslim. IS there something an all poweful, an all knowing god is unaware of that he needs a mere man to tell him. Unlike Jesus Muhammad never said that he is here to sacrifice himself for all mankind. So where does the question iof intervention arise?
Is the all powerful god so naive as that he needs a man to tell him whether someone should go to hell or heaven. This again proves the same fact that Muhammad thought of himself the best of creation and hence his fake God would let him intecede on the behaf of Muslims.
Donald Morgan has been fed on excessive amounts of Islamic Apologist literature and I have a sneaking suspision that he the front face for someone else, who does not want to reveil his true identity.
I was fortunate enough to be
I was fortunate enough to be part of a reseach conducted on the various cults prevelant in India, and most of our findings were in tandem with Ali Sina's conclusions. Just for the sake of clarity, some higly qualified mental heath care professionals, psycotherapists were a part of the team.
Infact most of the Cult Leaders are greedy men and all of them are narcissits. However they are for the most part harmelss, especially if they are hindu cult leaders.
I am not patronising Ali Sina, as I don;t agree with many of his theories, like Islam can be discolved peacefuly, however his findings about Muhammad and narcissism are as precise as they can get.
Dear Donald Morgan, I am
Dear Donald Morgan,
I am telling you again, please do not waste your precious time with a psycho.
Ali Sina should have followed
Ali Sina should have followed his instincts. He first impression on the Donald in my view was spot on. It would be an insult to Ali Sina's intelligence to debate this Narcissist, Donald Morgan.
I am waiting read Ali Sina's debate with the Keralite Scholar.
The Bloody Delutionish AMIM
The Bloody Delutionish AMIM is back. Where have you crawl out off? Please do not waste our space and time.
Don't worry ND, amim's
Don't worry ND, amim's comments are taken off soon after they are posted. Seems he rubbed the admin the wrong way.
Dear amim, Thats the best
Dear amim,
Thats the best advice given on the forum.you are right,morgan should not waste time with psycho mohammo & leave islam.
If admin is taking Amim off
If admin is taking Amim off for anything else except abusive language I do not agree. We must let him make a fool of himself. He is a classic representation of what a muslim mind is. Will free thinking readers of FFI be influenced by an Amim or does Mr Sina become a Psycho because this idiot says so, suppression of free speech in any form will bring us down to their level.
I bet Donald and Amim will apostate, it is only a matter of time.
Muhammad will intercede on
Muhammad will intercede on behalf of mankind. Muhammad is an excellent example for all humanity to follow. Some prophets are preferred more by God, among them muhammad. LOL!
This is hilarious! Ehe, muslims tell me! How will muhammad intercede for us? You see guys, that is why I believe strongly there is hell. Muslims reject anything called mediatory process between humans and God but at the same time believe muhammad will intercede for people. This brings me to my long held theory that the advent of muhammad and islam was a ploy by Satan to counter the God's plan for humans. After God's project of Jesus and the redemption process at the cross and resurrection, Satan was shocked and from that moment he designed a mega counter-project which took 600 hundred years to finish. This counter project only focussed at what are christianity keys to redemption:
No origin sin
Jesus was a mere human prophet
No crucifixion
No resurruction
Salvation attained through works and one must work hard to earn it
(including killing people who believe differently)
It was finished. Game over. Let us design the book focussing on these key points and call it the quran. Let us plagiarize the Old Testament but making sure we corrupt those areas important to salvation. Let us find one person with a narcissist personality disorder and give him this job. These type of people qualify for these kind of dirty jobs. But we must first train him. Okay cammon demon Jibril, go to a person with all NPD syndromes and finish that job!
Salim this also partly answers your question, that Satan is a driving force behind Islam. But his dirty jobs are not only limited to Islam. He currently uses atheism in western countries.
Can someone tell me, if Allah
Can someone tell me, if Allah (God) reveled the Quran, why is it that it deals with only people of the book, Jews and Christians and does not even mention Hinduism, even in passing, which was at its height and over 1000 years old at the time of MO.?
As far as I am concerned it is clear that this MO fellow was a barbaric uneducated Arab from the sands of Arabia, his entire universe would have been limited to that region. I am sure he would have not even heard of India. His visit to a few neighboring countries exposed him to Judaism and Christianity. He would have picked up the gist of these religions and their prophets. He must have realized that if people were gullible enough to follow a Christ and a Moses why I can’t fool this uneducated backward rabble of Arabia? He must have hatched a plan over a few weeks / months of pondering, and struck in Medina, the rest is history. So clearly the Quran was the work of MO and no god. So was Christianity the work of Christ taking off from where Judaism left. No supernatural being was involved; else something of Hinduism would surely have rubbed of on these religions as it has on the eastern religions like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism etc.
vennex, amim if you check in
vennex, amim if you check in the comments made by amim in the past, most of what he/she, writes is nonsense, irrelevant to the topic and full of abuse. Therefore giving such people even an inch of Freedom is stupidity, amim is a good muslim and I can tell you he/she will never leave islam.
There are people like Salim, who have seeds of critical though, all one needs to do is to water them. However Donald and amim are different. They are fully convinced that there cannot be any truth beyond islam. Hence its only fair that people who donot appreciate Freedom and donot understand freedom, are not given any Freedom.
The more you supress them the better it is, the day you give Freedom to people like Amim and Donald, they will take your house, and throw you out of it.
Turn on the TV in India in
Turn on the TV in India in the morning and there is a potential MO on every channel. Each of these prospective MO's has a huge following so figures like 1.2 or 1.4 billion followers is pocket change and does not lend and credibility to any religion
i have already challenged
i have already challenged Amim that he will apostate in a year and that was ~2 months back. So, he still has 10 months to go but what i find strange is that he wants Donald to stop wasting his time with psycho but cannot stop himself from visting this site every day.
vennex, hinduism is much
vennex, hinduism is much older than 3000 years, its pre dates Judaism. However the part about Hindusim perlxes me too, cos Muhammad was familiar with India and Indian used to trade with the Phoenecians and the Assyrians, etc since a very long. I have read a couple of hadith which mention that garden of eden was somehwere in India. There are other hadith that show that Muhammad was familiar with Indians.
Its quite possible that Muhammad had never imagined that Islam would grow beyong the borders of Arabia and hence he only took into account the cultures and civilization which surrounded his own.
Let us forget about the Hindus, why did'nt the Quran mention about the Native Americans, or the Japanese, Chinese, etc. All these cultures pre date Islam by many centuries and if the Quran was really reveiled by God, he should have certainly mentioned. Just so that people have no hesiation in accepting that the Quran is really the word of God.
dear venex, It would
dear venex,
It would appear that religions started only in the middle east & India.It is far from truth.The concept of God & religion was prevalent all over the planet in every civilization.All these belief systems were independent of each other & grew in isolation.Though some idiots like naik try to show mohammo in hinduism.
The appearance of the abrahamic belief systems effectively destroyed all other belief systems except hinduism & its associated belief systems. The muslims destroyed all other belief systems in the middle east & nearly destroyed christianity & jews. The christians, not to be left behind destroyed all belief systems in the entire american continent.Then these 2 religions more or less divided africa among them selves.Take a world map of conflicts,90% is between the christians & muslims,each egged on by their holy books.
Though unconfirmed reports claim that jesus spent his adolescence & early adult hood in kashmir.I think brother Ibrahim can give a better answer.This is the closest contact between these 2 systems i have heard about.
Krishna lol, do you know
Krishna
lol, do you know there is actually a shrine called roza bal in kashmir dedicated to Jesus. Now this is very funny bcos Kashmiris did not have any sort of contacts with people of Semitic Religions, so even there is no way in hell that Jesus could have ever come to Kashmir.
This is a mere fabrication by the Sayyeds living in Kashmir, an attempt to change the real history of Kashmir. They somehow want to prove that Kashmiri Muslims are a different race from then pandits and that they were always semitic. Ordinary Muslims believe in this big lie and even call themselves Bani Israel. They claim to be a part of the lost tribes of Isarel.
This is absolute nonsense and has no historical proof. The fact is the this shrine was once a Hindu shrine dedicated to Kshypa who is supposed to be the Rishi who found Kashmir.
The dirty Sayyeds as usual wish to remove all traces of Hindusim and Buddhism in Kashmir and today they have completed their agenda. There are hardly any Hindu shrines left, all the historical places have been given Arabic/Islamic names.
My mothertongue Kashmiri has been duly polluted with crap languages like Arabic. The only people who are foreign blood in Kashmir are the Sayyeds and Shia, otherwise the Sunni Muslims and the Pandits are of the same stock and this has been proven by DNA tests conducted by a team of researchers. This report was availble on the internet, till last year.
Why it was taken off is anybody's guess. The Sayyeds in Kashmir hold all the power in the Valley, even though they are not even 3% of the total Sunni population. These scumbags don't even today intermarry with the local Kashmiris as they consider us inferior. If you look at the Kashmiri political scene, all the major politicians are Sayyeds. The Gilanis, The Syeds, the Khans,etc are all sayyeds.
If the ordinary Muslims were to learn the truth he would not wink an eyeball before kicking out these foreigners from his land. But this cannot happen till the cowardly Baniyya Government at the centre is not replaced by a truely Nationalistic Party.
#15. krishna786 ---take a
#15. krishna786
---take a world map of conflicts,90% is between the Christians & Muslims,each egged on by their holy books.---
Yep!! that's a good one. Why not call that 100%. It is continuing till now. And why not call that a good news??
dear halal pork 786,
dear halal pork 786,
Leave the 10% for us.did you watch the video of the donkey hanging in the air.it is in free spirit's post.
You guys stop calling islam
You guys stop calling islam an abrahamic faith. Abraham deserve a special place in Christianity because Abraham love to God emulated God's love to mankind. He was willing to respond to God's call of sacrificing his son Isaac (see, another area where satan using a narcissist muhammad replaced Isaac for Ishmael), thus foreshadowing Jesus sacrifice. So you guys who repeatedly call islam an abrahamic faith what is there in islam to be called abrahamic? If you continue calling it abrahamic you are just as deluded as muhammadans.
lol, do you know there is
lol, do you know there is actually a shrine called roza bal in kashmir dedicated to Jesus. Now this is very funny bcos Kashmiris did not have any sort of contacts with people of Semitic Religions, so even there is no way in hell that Jesus could have ever come to Kashmir.
This is a mere fabrication by the Sayyeds living in Kashmir, an attempt to change the real history of Kashmir. They somehow want to prove that Kashmiri Muslims are a different race from then pandits and that they were always semitic. Ordinary Muslims believe in this big lie and even call themselves Bani Israel. They claim to be a part of the lost tribes of Isarel.
This is absolute nonsense and
This is absolute nonsense and has no historical proof. The fact is the this shrine was once a Hindu shrine dedicated to Kshypa who is supposed to be the Rishi who found Kashmir.
The dirty Sayyeds as usual wish to remove all traces of Hindusim and Buddhism in Kashmir and today they have completed their agenda. There are hardly any Hindu shrines left, all the historical places have been given Arabic/Islamic names.
My mothertongue Kashmiri has been duly polluted with crap languages like Arabic. The only people who are foreign blood in Kashmir are the Sayyeds and Shia, otherwise the Sunni Muslims and the Pandits are of the same stock and this has been proven by DNA tests conducted by a team of researchers. This report was availble on the internet, till last year.
Jewry is neither a race nor a
Jewry is neither a race nor a mixed race. It is a confusing mixture of races, racial mixtures, and racial fragments, artificially held together by its rabbis. It acts as a kind of counter-race, which can only destroy, never build. Jewry is the product of the inbreeding of asocial, criminal, sick, degenerate and rejected elements of every possible race in the ancient world. Jewry is neither a race nor a people nor a religion in our sense of those words. He possesses no homeland, but leads a rootless, parasitic life at the expense of the host peoples. Its current homeland is largely the criminal neighborhoods of the great cities of the world, its god is money, its policy is revolution and the destruction of the cultural treasures of mankind.
It's well known that he
It's well known that he cunning missionaries( just like the evil moslems) spread the lie that Jesus was influenced by the hinduism and he even came to india! Also the stupid keralites have this faith that St Thomas came to kerala in 45AD and so they are all direct descendents of low day thomas. St Low day dies some where inIran even he tried to travel to India.Google searcch about this lie.Missionarie s are equally cunning
#18 and #21 Islam is not
#18 and #21
Islam is not from abraham. Ishmael was an Egyptian. Now unless egyptians are Arabs then it is impossible for Arabs to be from Abram.
Besides, Abram was his name when Ishmael was born, when Isaac was born his name was changed to Abraham. Amazing how people lie. Prophet Mo lied when he attempted to steal Jewish history while in Medina. He knew that the Jews had Isaac, so he stole Ishmael. He was unaware that Ishamel was called a wild ass and would hate the world. Genesis 16. When Abraham died he gave Ishmael a gift and his sons by Kutarah, all (6), gifts. Isaac, father of the Jews the inheritance. Jesus came from that son. Muhammad and the Arabs came from Joktan, a Semite who preceded Abraham. How can one come from a group when they were already here. Ishmael had 12 sons also (smile). Before the apostles died, they said wolves in sheep's clothing already had entered the church. Christendom is the result.
Hindusim may have been here 3000 years before Jews, but so was animism, worship of nature i.e., the wind god, the river god, monkey god, sun god and the moon god! Man was created with the innate desire to worship the Creator, but was usurped by Satan who desired the worship received by God. Satan challenged the sovereignty (right to rule) not his power. Satan began to process of bullying. Any religion that is forced on people is from Satan, regardless. Mosaic Law was only for the Israelites, no one else. They never asked people to convert to being an Israelite. Jesus never said kill if they refuse to accept the gospel. Christendom did that. Judaism didnt do it either, although it was concocted while the Jews were captives in Persia in 539 BCE under King Cyrus. The descendants of those Jews are still in Iran today, about 25000 of them. At this time Iraq and Iran were one. They were called the Medes and Persians. The disciples went all over to preach the gospel, and were called Christians the first time while Paul was in Antioch, Syria.
Donald Moragan, You are not
Donald Moragan,
You are not ignorant on Islam and on NPD only, you are also ignorant on Christianity also.
You wrote:
‘Those messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of the Allah spoke (directly); others he raised to degrees (of honor); and to Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), we gave clear proofs and evidences and supports him with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel)’
Morgan, "Ruhul-Qudus" is the "Holy Spirit" Not "Gabriel".
I just can't believe the level of research incompetence you possess. You could have found this piece of information I just mentioned at any Christian site in seconds on your computer.
You are just an ignorant person, uneducated, and full of yourself. You really need to invest in some education and improve your thinking. This will take a good few years.
I really had the desire that Ali would stop the debate because you are not at his level. I felt your pains. But after what you wrote above, Mr. Morgan, you proved your arrogance and ignorance about Islam, NPD, and Christianity. You deserve all the trashing that is happening to you from the great Sina, and all the fine readers and researchers here. I am sorry Mr. Morgan, but I had to tell you the naked truth.
Wow, I thoroughly enjoyed
Wow, I thoroughly enjoyed this part of the debate! I like to express thanks to Donald for making the effort to refute Ali Sina's message, because Ali's response was so great. I think Donald didn't fully realise who he was up against. Ali Sina is a very knowledgeable ex-muslim. He knows the Islam from the inside out. Priceless was Ali Sina's response when Donald berated him for inciting anger among Christians against Muslims. As if all the insults and attacks in Quran + Hadith, the treatment of Christians in Islamic countries in the past and present did not do that already infinitely more. As if the Jizya did not incite any irritation whatsoever in any Christian! Oh, a Christian man cannot marry a Muslima, but the reverse is OK, is that no problem for any Christian? The testimonial of a Christian is only half that of a Muslim in (at least some) Islamic countries. Oh, the Christians don't mind, my dear fellow! To me this was the height of hypocrisy, coming from a Muslim. He also showed great arrogance by stating that he already had exposed Sam Vaknin as being unqualified as if he himself WAS qualified. Of course he resorted to calling Ali Sina's positions as "lies, half truths, twisted interpretations" as the age-old lame excuse for not adequately refuting the contents of what the opponent is saying any further. Anyway if his goal is to refute Faith Freedom International + the other Islam-critics, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Brigitte Gabriel, so as to defend Islam adequately with reason, he faces a truly impossible task. And it is not because they are so good, but because Islams claims to truth, divine inspiration, science-prediction, perfection and beauty are so hard to defend, let alone prove. Maybe in part, but never in total. Especially once the opponents become better than the defenders in knowledge of Quran and Hadith. And are able to disseminate their information and opinions so widely as they can now.
Raisin Head Says: can you
Raisin Head Says:
can you prove any of what you have written above. Show me one proof that man is born with a desire to worship an unseen god. Infact animism makes more sense than monotheism of the Jews Muslim and Christians. All three believe in worshipping an imaginary deity which they call by different names, Allah Yaweh, Jesus whatever.
Another important factor which is peculiar to followers of semitic or abhrahmic faiths is that they always assume this position of superiotity when actually their religions are nothing more than dogmas. you know how to eat how shit kida stuff.
The fact is that animists are closer to nature and where you will find animists you will find balance in nature. This is a trait which you will never find in a Christian, Jew or a Muslim. All three of them consider the earth as a provision to them them from their imaginary deity.
My theisis is that there cannot eb peace in this world till the time these three wiked philosphies are there in this world. All of them are equally dangerous for the wellbeing of this world.
Folks, here is an idea for
Folks, here is an idea for raising the profile of this movement:
Ali Sina could advertise in mainstream newspapers openly challenging prominent Muslim to written debates. In India it could be Zakir Naik, in Europe it could be Tariq Ramadan, and I am sure there could be potential targets in the UK too. The advertisement should name the target person, issue a challenge, and give faithfreedom.org website address. Such ads would not be allowed in Muslim countries, but I am sure there would be at least some mainstream newspapers in countries with a large Muslim minority who would be willing to print such ads. Even if the target person refuses the challenge, the buzz generated will be huge.
I don't think the expense involved will be too high, especially if everybody contributes. I would be happy to contribute from my modest resources for a Zakir Naik ad.
IBN please do not ask Morgan
IBN please do not ask Morgan to invest in education if you do he will enroll into a madarsa somewhere (most probably Pakistan) and come out "Educated" and bomb us in India so his ignorance is our bliss
# 28 Mr Sina has my
# 28 Mr Sina has my money...It will be a pleasure to see Zakir Naik go down...Folks I cannot express in words the hate that I feel for this one man "Zakir Naik". I hope your are reading this Mr Naik, I hope you die and rot in hell...
Ibrahim, out of curiosity I
Ibrahim, out of curiosity I would love to know something about you. Few weeks back you mentioned of Jesus being one your hero and now you say Christianity is one of the wicked philosophy that must be eliminated for peace to prevail in this world. Dont you see the apparent contradiction in your thesis?
I think Morgan should just
I think Morgan should just enroll in a madarsa in pakistan, get more radicalized, blow up somewhere and then present himself in the court of allah/mohammad..thats the best favour u can do to humanity.
proudchristian There is a
proudchristian
There is a lot of difference between christianity and jesus. there is no contradiction. The teachings of Jesus are just a part f christianity and not the whole. Christianity in its totality is a as wiked as islam.
christianity thrives on the misery of poor people, christian missionaries are the biggest bigots in this world who spread their disease through the world and preach hatred. So yes Christianity is a very big evil and Judaism is the source of it all.
Without Judaism there would have never been a Christianity or an Islam.
“And if any one will not
“And if any one will not receive you in your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.[/u]” (Matt. 10:14-15).
Muhammad hated those who did not believe in him and his teachings.
While Jesus apparently preached love, he too hated those who did not believe in him and wised on them a fate worse than Sodom and Gommorah. No wonder Christians and missionaries hate non-Christians. That is what their gd truly teaches.
“And if any one will not
“And if any one will not receive you in your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” (Matt. 10:14-15).
Muhammad hated those who did not believe in him and his teachings.
While Jesus apparently preached love, he too hated those who did not believe in him and wised on them a fate worse than Sodom and Gommorah. No wonder Christians and missionaries hate non-Christians. That is what their gd truly teaches.
Islam in action It is
Islam in action
It is interesting to watch the beard-monkey brotherhood thrashing a woman Islam-style for some minor offence.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6022878.ece
OBAMA BOWS TO SAUDI KING like
OBAMA BOWS TO SAUDI KING like a SLAVE (ABED)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY
VERY VERY SHAMEFUL ACT.
Morgan, I don't feel sorry
Morgan,
I don't feel sorry for you because you have brought this all on yourself, but I feel extremely sorry for your precious son! You are teaching him nothing but lies and bullsh*t! You are a disgrace to the American race and if your wife is an American and has any common sense...she'll take herself and your son away from your dumb a.. and make you eat their dust!
Oh, wait....I'm sorry...not only are you a disgrace to the American race (black, white, Asian, N.A. etc.), but you are most definitely a disgrace to the human race! You deserve every insult you get......How could you have subjected your family to that? Maybe some of have made that same mistake, but we were smart enough not to debate some one of Dr. Sina's status because in our hearts, most of us knew we were wrong. We woke up, used our brains and got the hell out of it! You have been (or rather have allowed yourslef to be) raped by a cult who encourages rape...Islam rapes the mind, heart, soul and for many, the body....so...there...you're no better than pedo Mo...you have raped your son, ya freak...maybe not physically/sexually, but mentally and emotionally.....you should be the one ashamed...not Dr. Sina! I have no sympathy for you at this point! Salam, you idiot....maybe you'll wake the hell up and actually find it oneday
You like so many followers
You like so many followers have also raped spiritually.....I am still suffering from that.....Even if you, Morgan, don't wake up....I hope your son will realize what an idiot you are!
To #29: You forgot to
To #29:
You forgot to mention, besides technical courses on self-exploding and Uzza worshipping(oops, Uzi handling), basics, intermediate and advanced on child molesting. He´ll be the very first one subject of thoroughly studies carried out by horny depraved moooohlahs (ghilman training course). I am really worried about his child. I hope the local government takes away his child, for its own sake.
To #22:
Have I really read that? I really would like to see you prove your point. Besides, what do you think about Bamyan´s Buddha destruction? And numerous others temples of worship? The Alexandry Library ( " Destroy it, because either the goodness of it is "redundant" due to P´ornan or is lol, evil,lol) ?
Ali Sina 6 X 0 Arrogant Duck !
Mohammad mixed up all
Mohammad mixed up all stories he heard from then story tellers of idol worshipping arabs, storiues from christian and jew scripture to from his manifesto of hallucinations and dilusions.Mo telling jesus was born with out father to virgin marry is just similar Maha Bharatha mythology of hindu where virgin Kunti gives birth to karna with out father .In that sory of Maha bharatha pandvas climibed to heaven with live bodies form himalayas.This is also twited and used by Mo to tell live bodily going to pradise by jeus .he also promised this to jihad terrorists lifting to paradise by allah.Ther were 24 terthankaras(enlighting guiding gurus) in Jainism and Mahaveer is the lat one.Mo twisted this as allah has sent 24000 prophets and he ws the last.He used even hell concept from judasim.lik this He used all thenexisting stories to from his dlusons of Quron.
I am sorry guys and gals, my
I am sorry guys and gals, my heart is taking the best of me.
Please lets be kind to Mr. Morgan
Remember the note that was alwaysdisplayed on FFI site in the past:
Where Logic Fails to open the Mind, Compassion may open the Heart
Dear continuum1 It
Dear continuum1
It is not a bow, it's a bend.!!! This is a very shamefull day for america.You let the free world down by bending in front of monarchy in this century. A democratically elected leader bending in front of a religious despot.America you have lost your balls,now you have lost your nut as well.
KICK THE AMERICAN PROTOCOL OFFICER IN THE BUTT.
IK, Perhaps you speak some
IK,
Perhaps you speak some truth.....I'll keep that in mind....I just feel sorry for his son.
Hi Free Spirit I loved your
Hi Free Spirit
I loved your article. I am really glad for you and your daughter girl. One thing I enjoy is people getting free from Evil, and Islam is the worst evil there is. I hope Mr. Morgan will realize that before damaging the psyche of his son. (You know the Islamic teaching that he has to beat his son at the age of ten to force him to pray to the moon god; Allah).
Anyway girl. I watched the movie "Not without my daughter when it came out (its been a while). i just loved it when that woman manged to get away from there, with her daughter with her. Listen, my email is ibnkammuna@aol.com if you like to share things. Ibrahim and Marie and me email each other between now and then. Its good sharing and encouragement I think. May you get Peace from the prince of Peace..always. Take care for now.
Paki_islamist Says: April
Paki_islamist Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
"Jewry is neither a race nor a mixed race. It is a confusing mixture of races, racial mixtures, and racial fragments, artificially held together by its rabbis. It acts as a kind of counter-race, which can only destroy, never build. Jewry is the product of the inbreeding of asocial, criminal, sick, degenerate and rejected elements of every possible race in the ancient world. Jewry is neither a race nor a people nor a religion in our sense of those words. He possesses no homeland, but leads a rootless, parasitic life at the expense of the host peoples. Its current homeland is largely the criminal neighborhoods of the great cities of the world, its god is money, its policy is revolution and the destruction of the cultural treasures of mankind."
I am astounded by the pathological hatred towards Jews shown by the muslims. The reason for this, ostensibly, is that the Jews refused to accept Mohammed as their prophet .... Is anyone surprised ? Who in their right minds would leave the religion and traditions of their forefathers and accept those of a new dubious 'prophet' ? And more so, after what Mohammed did to the Jews ! He butchered the Jewish tribes, raped their women and left instructions which resulted in Arabia being cleansed of all Jews ( and Christians). Before and during Mohammed's time, Arabia (inc. Mecca and Medina) was an epitome of multiculturalism where non-muslim Arabs, Jews, Christians and others lived together peacefully. Mohammed changed all that, clearly he was no great supporter of multiculturalism and neither are today's muslims !
The Quran has sowed the seeds of everlasting enimosity between the muslims and the Jews. And what has been the result ? The achievements of 1.2 billion muslims are no match to those of less than 20 million Jews, on any grounds whatsoever. Militarily, financially and business wise, academically, in terms of political influence, in matters of sports, music, in fact in any field, the ,muslims simply do not size up to the Jewish people.
I write this impartially, since I am neither Jewish nor muslim,but the results are there for all to see !
Proudchristian
Proudchristian wrote:
Salvation attained through works and one must work hard to earn it
(including killing people who believe differently)
Salvation is only obtained through one way in Islam and that is blowing yourself up.
venex wrote: Can someone
venex wrote:
Can someone tell me, if Allah (God) reveled the Quran, why is it that it deals with only people of the book, Jews and Christians and does not even mention Hinduism, even in passing, which was at its height and over 1000 years old at the time of MO.?
Hindus are known as sabeans in the Quran.
ibrahim wrote: This is a
ibrahim wrote:
This is a trait which you will never find in a Christian, Jew or a Muslim. All three of them consider the earth as a provision to them them from their imaginary deity.
Christians do not consider the earth as a provision to them, we believe the earth belongs to all people. You must be confusing Christianity with Islam.
# 22 Paki Islamist wrote,
# 22
Paki Islamist wrote, "Jewry is the product of the inbreeding of asocial, criminal, sick, degenerate and rejected elements of every possible race in the ancient world."
Isn't it funny that such a mixture of low life criminals can beat Muslims in every sense, intellectually, economically, scientifically,... you name it.
How about Muslims start inbreeding some criminals, sick, degenerate and rejected elements among them to see whether they can produce a few geniuses and Noble Prize winners?