Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 4
Submitted by Ali Sina on Wed, 04/01/2009 - 06:15
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Donald Morgan
According to the DSM an NPD sufferer chooses people of high status to be part of their inner circle of friends or companions. They also look at people ‘below’ them as being worthless. The DSM also states that these people are so arrogant, they treat others like dirt. What I would like to do now is illustrate that Muhammad does not fit this profile. To do so I will speak shortly about slavery. Slavery at the time of Muhammad was widely accepted all over the world. Although Muhammad came short of forbidding the practice, he has shown great sympathy to the enslaved and encouraged his followers to free them. Muhammad had set an example himself when he freed a slave called Zayd ibn Harithah. Zayd later became a trusted companion of Muhammad. One early biography relates Muhammad as having said that "he (Zayd b. Harithah) was one of the dearest to me of all men. (Karim D. Crow, "Facing One Qiblah: Legal and Doctrinal Aspects of Sunny and Shi'ah Muslims", 2005, p. 143, Ibex Publishers, ISBN 9971-77-552-2) The question must be asked here; ‘does this act of compassion fit the profile of one who suffers from NPD? Not only did Muhammad promote freeing slaves, he set one of his own slaves free and referred to that slave as being ‘dearest’ to him (Muhammad). Does this sound like a man who chooses only high profile people to be part of his inner circle? Does this sound like a man who treats others like dirt? The obvious answer is no, so what can we learn from this? Simply put, again, Muhammad does not fit the profile of an NPD sufferer. Also, if we look at another close friend and companion to Muhammad, Billal, we see the same thing. Billal was an African, black slave who was later freed and accepted Islam, joining the prophet. Billal was the first person to perform the call to prayer, a ritual that is still practiced today.
Ali Sina
What we can learn from this story is that you did not read my book. You are so confident of the cult that you have embraced that you don’t think anyone who opposes it may have a point. So why bother reading what you already know better? Your brain is at peace brother. That is what we learn from the above story. But that is foolish. You have an eternity to keep your brain in peace. Right now you have to make it work.
Before I tell you about Muhammad’s haughtiness and his disdain for lowly people, let me debunk your claim that he was against slavery.
Muhammad was never against slavery. Zeid was his adopted son. Both Muhammad’s sons, Qasim and Abd al Menaf (named after idol Menaf) died at infancy. An Arab without a son was a man with no honor. As added humiliation he had four daughters. In fact Muhammad thought it is denigrating to have daughters and an insult to attribute daughters to Allah. “What! For you the males and for Him the females! This indeed is an unjust division!” He wrote in the Qur’an, 53:19-22. That is why he adopted Zeid as his son. This was out of expedience and for status and not out of goodness of his heart. Later, when he lusted after Zeid’s wife Zeinab, he made his Allah reveal a verse to annul the institution of adoption and said, I am not the father of any of your men. (Q. 33:40)
The claim that Muhammad was against slavery is preposterous. Muhammad raided town after town and after killing unarmed men took as slaves their children and their wives in such numbers that one day when Aisha broke her oath she manumitted forty of them in expiation. You can imagine how many slaves did she have to manumit forty in one go and how many slaves other wives of Muhammad inherited and how many the rest of marauding Muslims received as their shares of the booty? Tens of thousands of free people were reduced to slavery by Muhammad and his followers. All the slaves brought to America were purchased from Muslim slave makers. Slavery has not ended yet among Muslims and it will be back if Muslims become the majority again. So take your charade that Muhammad “just came short of abolishing slavery” elsewhere. That brute was the biggest slave maker and slave trader of history.
In page 13 of Understanding Muhammad I wrote:
Muhammad was cognizant that his followers were mostly meek and lowly. To boost his prestige he needed someone of stature to embrace his cause. Ibn Ishaq narrates: “Whenever men came together at the fairs, or the apostle heard of anyone of importance coming to Mecca, he went to them with his message.” [Sirat, Ibn Ishaq page. 195] The chroniclers also tell us that Muhammad rejoiced immensely when Abu Bakr and then Omar enlisted in his cause. The conversion of Abu Talib would have elevated his prestige among his uncles and the Quraish, the tribe that resided within Mecca and were custodians of the Ka’ba, giving him the credibility and status he so desperately craved. Instead, the dying man smiled and said he would rather die in the faith of his forefathers. Thus, with his hopes dashed, Muhammad walked out of the room murmuring: “I wanted to pray for him, but Allâh stopped me from doing so.”[Life of Muhammad, Muir Vol 2 p.195]
Page 192-193.
He Frowned
Islamic societies are dysfunctional, patriarchal, misogynous and dictatorial. Not only are women mistreated, children are often abused, beaten and humiliated. Consequently they grow up scarred, have low self esteem, fancy thoughts of grandiosity and evince symptoms of pathological narcissism.
During my youth I had an Afghani friend who had all these characteristics. One day he told me he wanted to “become a Hitler.” Hitler is a popular figure in Islamic countries. I was annoyed with that stupid remark and after giving him a piece of my mind walked away from him. Fearing to lose my friendship, the next day he came to me and said that the night before he dreamt of the Prophet scolding him and telling him that he should become a “spiritual Hitler”. This ridiculous behavior typifies the pathological thinking of a narcissist. Narcissists are master manipulators. They are always one step ahead of you. There is an interesting chapter in the Quran, called ‘Abasa, (He Frowned) which shows Muhammad had the same pathological mindset.
The very early Muslims were mostly slaves or rebellious youths in their teens with no social standing. Muhammad was aware that in order to be taken seriously he must enlist influential people in his cause. Abu Bakr’s conversion is owed to Khadijah’s influence. As far as he was concerned, if an important woman like Khadijah had accepted Islam, it must be true. Once Abu Bakr converted, it became easier for Umar to convert and so on. In logic this is called argumentum ad or appeal to authority. This is a fallacy that uses admiration of an important person to prove the validity of an assertion. Muslims resort to this fallacy often.
During the early years of his mission, Muhammad was sitting among the dignitaries of Mecca trying to convince them of his claim. One of his followers, a blind poor man named Ibn Umm Maktum, approached him with a question. Muhammad disliked his interruption and frowned. Those sitting around him noticed his contempt. They criticized him for his hypocrisy and double standard. There was no way for Muhammad to get out of this embarrassing situation by making Allâh approve his snobbishness. The next day he claimed to have received a sura in which Allâh rebuked him for ignoring the blind man while trying to impress the rich.
He frowned and turned (his) back, Because there came to him the blind man. And what would make you know that he would purify himself, Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him? As for him who considers himself free from need (of you), To him do you address yourself. And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself And as to him who comes to you striving hard, And he fears, From him will you divert yourself. Nay! Surely it is an admonishment. So let him who pleases mind it. In honored books, Exalted, purified, In the hands of scribes. (Q. 80: 1-15)
In these verses Muhammad is taking the blame and even making Allâh admonish him for his condescendence. Nonetheless, as a narcissist that he was even in this sura he ended up blaming his detractors even more. From verse 17 onward, he pours his venomous vituperation on those who disbelieved him.
Although this sura is another indication of Muhammad’s narcissism, Muslims do not see it that way. They have fallen prey to his manipulations hook, line and sinker and think that this sura is evidence of his sincerity. Far from it; this should only be seen as damage control. Muhammad had no other choice but to take the blame. How can you blame one who has already taken it?
Donald Morgan
Also, the call to Islam Muhammad made attracted what type of people? According to Karen Armstrong, in her book titled ‘Islam’, the early followers of Muhammad were the poor and disenfranchised (with the exception given to Abu Bakr Siddiq and Khadijah). Again, if a person suffering from NPD aspires to have people of high rank or status be part of his inner circle of friends or companions, his message would have appealed to that type of person. Muhammad’s message appealed to the poor, sick and weak amongst the Arabs because it was a message of liberation. This is why a vast majority of those who first accepted Islam were poor, disenfranchised people, not people of wealth, status and power. As a matter of fact, those with wealth, status and power, the Quaraish of Makkah tried to stop Muhammad’s message by any means necessary.
Ali Sina
I already refuted the charade that Muhammad was interested in the poor. He was disdainful of them. However, those were the people he could fool, but his eyes were set on prominent people. The ignorant people of Mecca, consisting of slaves and the rebellious youths were the only ones who listened to his asinine message without asking for proof. Intelligent people laughed at him. Things have not changed since then. Even today, it’s the convicts, the prisoners, some fools and some inexperienced youths who convert to Islam. Intellectuals born and raised in Islam are leaving this cult of stupidity in droves.
Now, let’s talk about the message of ‘liberation’. Yes Muhammad told the slaves to escape the services of their masters and to the youths he said they should obey Allah and his messenger and not their own infidel parents.(Q.9:23) Was this a message of liberation or was he an agent provocateur and a disrupter of social order? Had Muhammad not raided so many towns and not enslaved so many people, one could have given him the benefit of doubt that perhaps he was against slavery. But his own actions prove that he was not at all against slavery. He reduced tens of thousands of free people into slaves and enriched himself by trading them. So what liberation are you talking about?
Donald Morgan ns
If one looks to the Quran, as it regards to Muhammad, one would find something unexpected. There are parts in the Quran that correct Muhammad, meaning Muhammad did something and a later revelation came forth that corrected his action. One such example can be found in chapter 9, verse 43. It states the following:
‘May Allah forgive you (O Muhammad) Why did you grant them leave , until those who told the truth were seen by you in clear sight, and you had known the liars’
It is Ali Sina’s contention that the Quran was Muhammad’s own manufacture. So let me play the devil’s advocate here. If I were to agree with Ali Sina about this (and believe me I don’t) and the Quran was Muhammad’s manufacture; if he suffered from NPD would he have written a passage like this? According to the DSM he would not. According to the DSM a person suffering from NPD always craves compliment and praise, as well as being arrogant. This passage from the Quran does not praise or compliment Muhammad, it chastises him for an action he did. If Muhammad suffered from NPD he would not have entered such a passage into the Quran, as it illustrates the fact that he is not always right in his decision making.
Ali Sina
Had you read my book you would not have made this comment. I already explained the mind game that narcissists play. We can see plenty of these manipulative games in the Quran. The sura Abbasa, described above is one such example, the other is when Zeid told Muhammad that he will divorce his wife. Muhammad responded, “Keep your wife to yourself, and fear Allâh." (Q.33:37) Soon after Zeid left, the remembrance of Zeinab’s ruby lips, her soft thighs and her firm breasts awoke Muhammad's Allâh residing under his tunic who revealed a verse admonishing him for fearing the criticism of the people instead of giving in to his desires.
You did hide in yourself that which Allâh will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas Allâh had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her (i.e. divorced her), We gave her to you in marriage, so that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of (the marriage of) the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And Allâh's Command must be fulfilled. (Q.33: 37)
There is also Sura Tahrim, where Muhammad forbids Maiyah the slave girl of Hafsa to himself when the daughter of Omar finds him in bed with that pretty girl. Then again we see Allah admonishing Muhammad telling him:
"O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allâh has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Allâh has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And Allâh is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise. (Q.66:1-5)
I told you about the story of my Afghani friend who said he dreamt the prophet scolding him for wanting to become a Hitler and advised him to become a “spiritual Hitler.” Now if one is stupid enough to believe my Afghani friend, then one is stupid enough to believe in all these admonitions that Muhammad received from Allah. That is the game narcissists platy to fool the gullible into believing that they are honest. Since your brain is resting in peace you happily fall for these tricks.
This is exactly how narcissists manipulate and fool the gullible. Of course narcissists take the blame. When the buffoon O = Zero was asked about his involvement with the criminal Tony Rezko, what did he say? He immediately said, I am going to make mistakes once in a while. By taking the blame he disarmed his critics. Those who do not know narcissism think this is the sign of his honesty because he admits to his errors readily, without realizing that they have been just fooled by him again.
Little knowledge is dangerous. Because most people have little knowledge of narcissism they can be easily fooled by narcissists like Muhammad, Hitler, Mussolini and Obama. Now everyone agrees that Hitler was a narcissist. I have convinced many that Muhammad was also a narcissist and more and more people are beginning to see that Zero is also a narcissist. BTW, Dr. Vaknin was the first to notice Zero is a narcissist. Once the world comes to see that, Vaknin will become a household name. Those who prefer to keep their heads in the sand will have a rude awakening. Some people just don’t wake up until it is too late and the house is on fire.
What you describe above is a classic narcissistic behavior. Muhammad’s whole game was to portray himself as a messenger of Allah. By making people believe in this lie he could do anything and all he had to do was to make his hidden alias override what he had said and done and wash his hands from all blame. How convenient, eh! In fact the best way to make people think Allah and you are not one and they same is to make Allah admonish you, not too harshly, but just enough to fool the gullibe that He is not your own fabrication.
For examole, you can say, I wanted to pray for my uncle, I am grateful for all he did for me, but Allah did not let me do it.
I am a man of my words. I was going to honor the treaty that I signed at Hudaibiyyah, but Allah sent me the Sura Deliverance, delivering me from keeping my words and told me that I should break my covenants with infidles. (Q. 9:1)
I never lie. If I change some of the verses of the Quran, it's becasue Allah changes his mind and sends me better verses. (Q.2:106) Also sometimes Satan whispers some verses into my ears that I think they are from Allah, but they are Satanic verses. So Allah corrects me.
I told my son Zeid to keep his wife and fear Allah, but Allah scolded me badly for that and ordered me to have sex with my son’s wife. He admonished me and said, oh you nougthy man, were you trying to hide what was in your heart when We wanted it to be manifest? You are not the father of any of these men, but the seal and last prophet, and adoption is abomination.(Q.33:37-40)
I swore by God and promised to my wives not to sleep with Mariyah, the pretty maid of Hafsa again, and I wanted to keep my word, but Allah was very, very angry at me when he heard that, particularly for denying myself what my heart desired, just to please my wives. Allah admonished me and said in the harshest tone that I should fear HIM only and not my wives. (Q.66:1-5) I am a God fearing obedient slave of Allah. How can I say no to Him when He orders me to have sex with my daughter in law or with the slave girl of my wife? He gets sooo angry when I deny pleasure to myself?
I wanted to follow the Quran and limit the number of my wives to four, but Allah told me I can marry any number of women and whomever I like "so there should be no difficulty for me." As you know "Allah is oft-forgiving and merciful." But of course, he told me, "this is only for you [Oh Muhammad] and not for the believers at large." (33:49-50)
Now my loyal friend Abu Bakr, I swear by the spirit of my mother who is burnig in hell because she died before I become a prophet and therefore an infidle that I was not looking at your baby Aisha. Do I look like a pedophile? An angel showed her to me in a dream wrapped in a silken linen. At first I said, no, no, no, this is not right, and ran away. But the angel came back a second time holding Aisha in his arm. He removed her nappy so I can see her naked baby butt. I feared Allah and had no other choice but to say, "if it is from Allah, then it must happen." Now you my friend and companion, the one who wittnessed to the truth of my claim of ascending to heaven and whom I called Sadiq (truthful), are you going to dispute with Allah and risk becoming a liar? Bukhari 9.87.140
Come on Muslims! You are not stupid. I am sure you feel embarassed of Muhammad. Why do you want to defend him? Believe me the followers of no other faiths have to defend their prophets of perversity all the times like you have to. No one can say these darn things about Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Krishna, or any prophet. It's only Muslims who have to make all these intellectual acrobatics to defed an indefensible. But that makes you look silly or mayeb even stupid. You don't owe anything to that crook. He was just an impostor no better than Jim Jones or other men who conned many people.
I am sure you can think rationally. Or is it my wishful thinking? That includes you the deluded self proclaimed “reformists” of Islam as well. You who claim to be against the Sharia and for modernity. What proof do you need to see this man lied and fooled people for his own personal gain and personal lust? What is there in Islam that you want to save and reform? Where shall we draw the line and say beyond this point we will not be fooled? Aren't you embarassed to call yourselves the followers of an insane man?
Over a billion people follow this pied piper. Some of them call themselves “doctors.” They are university educated and have earned their diplomas. And yet, they are so befogged that they can’t see the man they follow was mentally sick. They go around calling themselves “moderate Muslims.” Hey, these gentlemen are "moderate Muslims," you know! They are not extremely fool, just moderately fool.
Great job Ali Sena, you
Great job Ali Sena, you summed up the real character of Muhammad by quoting verses from Quran and hadiths. The last 5 paragraphs should put the final nail in the coffin of Muhammad and his followers. If Morgan has any rationale left in him, he must come out of this cult asap.
BTW, is split personality a symptom of NPD? Sometimes, we see people either very angry or extremely cool, and not in between. I also would like to know if a normal person can become a narcissist when influenced by Muhammad-like characters, or is NPD a genetic disease? Let me know.
I hope this is the last in
I hope this is the last in this series. It was one of the most one sided debates that I ve read during the last 5 years I ve been visiting FFI.
Now the thing is that even if Donald were to let down his ego for a while and think, it would be impossible for him to publically declare his apostacy from Islam, simply bcos he is now a very well know face (thanks to FFI).
He has got himself into a muddle which he will regret later on, but will probably never be able to get out of it. If he is married to a non-white born Muslim lady, his problems will be compounded.
This is what happens when have your balls where your brains should be.
Ali Sina, In part 3 of your
Ali Sina,
In part 3 of your debate you talked about how misleading wikipedia can be. I am writing a paper for my English Composition class. In the paper I am critiquing a book by Karen Armstrong called "Islam A short History". I chose Karen Armstrong since she is considered to be an unbiased writer and is quoted extensively by Muslims and non Muslims alike. In the book she writes that in the battle of trench, seven hundred men of the Qurayzah were killed and their women and children were sold as slaves. But wikipedia article for " Battle of the trench" says that women and children were left alone. Do they mean that selling them as slaves was leaving them alone? So either Karen Armstrong lied or Wikipedia is wrong. If Karen Armstrong is right, then prophet Mohammad did encourage slave trade. I wonder what Mr. Gordon thinks about Karen Armstrong.
Hi Rationalist Donald will
Hi Rationalist
Donald will never leave Islam. I am not going to bet, but I am fairly certain of it. (If he leaves Islam he will gravitate towards another doctrine of hate such as KKK or a similar cult) There are some people who naturally gravitate towards evil and evil doctrines. I’ve met a few of them. Members of KKK, the prison inmates, the communists, are ideal candidates to convert to Islam. I don’t believe all humans are innocent. Sami Zatari is one such person. I had this feeling about him just by reading his articles and when I saw his picture on Facebook I was confirmed. Donald Morgan is another case. I don’t want to say I am a face reader, but I get some vibes by just looking at the faces of people and I don’t see that special light in Donald. I get the same kind of evil vibe by looking at Obama. The majority of people love him. So only future will show I was right or wrong. I can bet that very soon most people will come to see the real face of this jerk. But it will be too late. I do not see any light of divine Donald countenance. I love to be proven wrong on this, but I know the chances are slim.
NPD is often accompanied by several co-morbidities. Sometime they are so strong that can be diagnosed as distinct disorders and sometimes they are mild and not readily diagnosable. Remember that all these traits exist in all of us. They are normal human traits and they are necessary. It’s when they become excessive and when they hinder our performance that they are classified as disorder. The irony is that one symptom of NPD is over achievement. If you suffer from any disorder, like borderline personality, obsessive compulsive or bipolar, you become the victim. When you suffer from NPD, it’s others that become the victim while you seem to be successful and happy. The narcissist ability is to manipulate and fool others. That is what makes the narcissist extremely dangerous. The more a narcissist is given the power and authority, the more dangerous he becomes. There are many people like Obama. They cannot cause widespread damage. Obama can bring destruction on not just America but the world. People are so stupid that they just refuse to see and think he is no different from other presidents who were all narcissistic.
Narcissists always form their own personality cult. Often the only member of their cult is their wife and maybe a few close friends. But sometimes their cult includes many people and the bigger it becomes the more dangerous they become.
Yes always the cultists project the narcissistic personality of their cult leader. The cultists also become narcissists, as they absorb his personality disorder.
You could see this narcissism the Germans during the time of Hitler. You can see that in Muslims and you can distinctly see that in the most devout worshipers of Zero. Obama worshippers are just as dangerous and as vicious as are the Muslims or as were the Nazis. These people are just as capable of doing evil as are the Muslims or as were the Nazis. I have a feeling that we are going to see blood in America, unless the media wakes up and starts telling people the truth about this monster.
Normal person can acquire any disorder. The followers of cults are normal people, but the disorder of their leader is bequeathed to them and they act in the same way as their leader.
You can be a normal person but you can give in to your craving and acquire eating disorder.
Unlike what most homosexuals want you to believe, homosexuality is a sexual disorder that anyone can acquire. To say homosexuality is genetic is the most patent lie. Most homosexuals will tell you they “discovered” their homosexuality in their adulthood and often by watching homosexual pornography. Now they have invented also a new term “bisexuality” It is a disorder no more different than other deviant sexual disorder, Pedophilia is also a disorder. It develops in the same way that homosexuality develops.
The problem is that it is much easier to develop a disorder than to get rid of it. It’s no different from tobacco addiction. It’s much easier to become a smoker than to quit.
Is Mohammad a prophet?then
Is Mohammad a prophet?then where is the proof.Why should we believe if he declares himself a prophet?If one says he is doctor then should show all necesssary certificates of qualifiation and relevent practical surgery .Otherwise he will not be allowed to practice the job of doctor to save the lives of people.Mohammad just diluded that he was prophet .THen ignorent people having heard of the concept of prophet from then existant judaism faith and gabreil from christianity and faith coming of one more prophet from jews ,falsely believed that he was prophet.THis was a great disaster.It was the ignorence and blind belief with out rational enquiry that lead to the disaster in the form of islam.Let us apply similar concept to other major faiths.Is Bhagwan Buddha enlightened ?How should we believe his concept of Astanga marga is one of the solution for suffering in this world and way to Nirvana?Buddha never asked his followers to blindly follow to any one including himself.He was the world first known rationalist and humnist.He said i got enlightenment means any one can get enlightenment through meditation for several years and through detachment.THe principles of nature are common to all including animals.How ever animals do not have sufficient rationality to understand and think.He said ignorence and superstition is the greatest evil and cause of all sufferings in this world.He gave practical way for enlightenment through astanga marga instead of difficult way of years of isolated meditaion.So here buddha never gave exclusive improtance to himself by saying he is the only enlighted one or capable of enlightenment.He said at the time of death "appo depo bhava"you can enlighten your self ..Then coming to christianity jesus has said he was son of god who is father.In his sencse he was the enlighted son of god who is capable of giving enlightenment throgh him if any one believes in him.Ther is no proof but some say he shown some miralce powers of curing .But still there is no danger in following him as he lived pure life and spread selfless loving service amoung people.He never hated or oredered to hate and kill any one.Many people like Mother theresa got inspiration from him to selflessly serve and love the people .So believing in jesus is not bad or dangerous.THen coming to hinduism there are so many ways for enlighten.You do not require even any god for enlightenment.You can follow any one of the four major specified paths or a combination of them for enlightenment.you have to just folllow the laws of nature and follow your duty.Even that is sufficient.Even through athiesm and following your duty through dedication and living pure life you can acheve enlightenment.So thers is no need count those larage number of gods right from earht to sun and to supreme god who is almight.There no need to debate which god you should follow ,follow any god with dedication.they are all different vehicles leading for the same destination.Then jainism is also athiest religion but with severe principles of non-voilence and austerity.So by the conlcusion mohammad was not a prophet at all.he diluded that he was a prophet and then started all lying and confusing people around him.First he feared that that evil devil has caught him but cousin of Khadija who was converted christian falsely declared he was prophet.Over all it is ignorence and blind superstition that is root cause of mad islam and its false and evil prophet.He was just a madman.
# 3 Hi Peace_Love It's not
# 3
Hi Peace_Love
It's not Gordon, It's Morgan, Donald Morgan.
Both Armstrong and Muslims lie. Armstrong is a foolish woman who has portryed Muahmmad as a great reformer and statesman. As the truth about Muhammad spreads this woman will be marginalized and discredited.
Don't read Wikipedia at all. People who write there are not scholars, but biased people. They write there for free becasue they have an agenda. Only the articles on science, space, physics, etc. that are not controversial can be trusted to some extent. Articles on people and faiths should never be trusted. never.
I suggest all rationalsits
I suggest all rationalsits and humansits here to read the long conversations and life of buddha.It is very intersting and clearly brings a new thoght and approach in your life.
#6 Thanks for correcting me
#6
Thanks for correcting me Ali. I just watched The dark knight 5th time today and there is a character called commissioner Gordon so I typed Gordan instead of Morgan. You are right about wikipedia. Even my english teacher has asked me not to quote that website.
This is for free spirit. I
This is for free spirit.
I thought of penning this down earlier but couldn't.
I say you will be truly and stay free spirit if you listen to ultra whispers! That's your conscience the voice of conscience is too strong.If you commit a mistake the conscience ( whisper ultra!) will tell you and till you listen to the whisper ultra and act accordingly your spirit will never stay free. Hope you like that.
Many a times religion tells you the exact opposite of what the voice of conscience tells you. We are all conditioned to religious babble from child hood days.So we assume that the religion must be telling the truth.Until you free the mind of this shackles, you will never be a free spirit.The main problem with all the (, at least most moslems) is this.they are unable to think rationally, due to the brain conditioning by the religious drivel that has gone on for too long.
I do not eat beef not for religious reasons.For health reasons.I do not eat meat for the animals do have lief and we are killing them for no extra benefit.We can be healthy and hearty with vegetarian food alone.So there is a need to be compassionate to the animals.This is nothing religious at all.Having said that I do occassionally enjoy my stake( well done please) and brabecued chicken.Then i really have to suppress the voice of conscience. Then I realised the moslems must be / not feeling that they are doing any thing wrong at all, when they practice what's in qrand and what was done by rasool maha low day!
Over generations moslems have killed their conscience.Thats' the reason the moslems make their children kill the animals during eid. Moslem Children enjoy beheading the poor goat or sheep or chicken. So when they carry on the same with human beings as well they do not feel ill at ease, but feel good.
for your spirit to stay free use whisper ultra
Mr. Sina, the vibes you get,
Mr. Sina, the vibes you get, are actually emitted by every person. The more you love/think of someone, (who may be good or bad), the more vibes of the person you get and you start becoming like the person to the extent you love/think about him/her.
Birds of the same feather flock together....
I think we must thank Donald
I think we must thank Donald Morgan. If not for him we would not have enjoyed the arguement put forward by Ali. We also came to know the duplicity of Islam in a vivid manner.
Yes socrates. This has always
Yes socrates. This has always been my viewpoint that if people made rational decisions in following one particular religion, devious cults like islam would have not been a problem. If people follow religion just for the sake of spiritual enlighetenment so what is there in islam to be enlightened? Muslims suffer so much more than any other people in this planet. They are emmigrating in droves from their countries to western countries for the sake of getting better life away from their hell-holes yet they cannot see the problem with islam. Ali Sina wrote that some people are inherently evil and I guess that in islam there is disproprtionately many evil people as compared to other faiths. You cannot know the truth about islam still stay a muslim and be called a good person. You cannot see your faith harboring terrorists daily still stay a muslim and be called a good person. You cannot be shown that muhammad had sex with a child of 9 yrs (yuck) and still believe in him being the most perfect example to follow, the mercy of mankind, the beloved of all God's creation and be called a good person. You cannot believe in a paradise of sex and alcohol and be called a good person. By muslims I mean true muslims. Many nominal muslims are good people but they are not muslims. And to muslimahs. You are too pretty and intelligent to be burqad, foursomed, pedophiled, laid by a bearded terrorist, stoned, head chopped and honor killed. And if you are a muslimah and know these facts of denigration of muslimahs happening in Somalia, Iran and Saudia Arabia among others still stay a muslimah and defend these barbarous satanic laws, you are equally as evil and ugly as bearded terrorists!
great work dear ali sina but
great work dear ali sina
but i dont think that Mr donbald will care to even read your full article. he did the same with me. therefore i thought to give a punishment, i left debate to let him stay a muslim whole of his life and struct his head for a imaginary allah. that was his punishment.and one more important thing. like narcissism there is also a disease or a craze of being popular. and sadly Mr donald is a victum of that disease. he only want to be published at any cost ..................
Ali Your arguments do have
Ali
Your arguments do have logic. However, I am still not able to understand why the prophet had been followed for centuries? I am sure there must have been people who saw light in yet another side of it. I am still trying to figure that out though.
This verse Bukhari
This verse Bukhari 9.87.140
is an eye opener even Zakir "Moron" Naik should leave islam after this. I was under the impression that although Mo knew he was marrying a child he had no quams about it. But if he overruled his own better judgement and concience and let his lust get the better of him forget a prophet he is worse than an animal. Show me one animal species that mates with children.
Salim I think you should read
Salim I think you should read Ali Sina's book. It will really help you find answers to the the many questions that you have. Let me know if you wish to read it! I would be happy to send you a copy.
Amaar, this time Donald has
Amaar, this time Donald has done it for himself. He commited every logical fallacy possible and Ali Sina is the best person to find fallacies as and when they happen.
Salim one thing I'm sure
Salim one thing I'm sure helps islam to survive for so long is its strong political stance. In many islamic countries the islamic laws are the constitution of those states. Jails and executions are in most cases for people who breach islamic laws. So you can see why islam is bound to survive in such countries. There are some countries which are secular but still islam survives. It is in these countries where we see peaceful brand of islam. In order to survive in secular countries it must disguise itself as peaceful. This is only a 101 about the subject you raised.
To: Salim Its the "Cult"
To: Salim
Its the "Cult" mentality brother that keeps Islam afloat. Sina does an excellent job in his book clarifying this matter. Muslims feel they are "special", "on the right path". They just assume everyone "Outside" is wrong.
In the history of Islam, when the Muslims invaded the greater Syria (which they took from the Romans, the "Mu'tazilah" movement came about to use "reason" to prove that Islam is right. The movement failed and then died through suppression. The cult of Islam puts "Muhammad and his teachings" above reason. Then after Ghazali came to the seen and nullified reason in favor of "idiotic Faith and revelation", Islam and Muslims were doomed for good. Reason went out the window. They just "believe" they are right (just like good old Donald Morgan). All were fooled by the bastard of Arabia of all time Muhammad. May the God of the universe toast him in hell forever for the damage he did to the great tolerant Arab culture that existed before that bastard showed up. Peace
There is no peaceful Islam.
There is no peaceful Islam. There are muslims who know better than tio attempt to kill for allah. There are Muslims who enjoy infidel life, while posing as pious moderate muslims. There are muslims who want life on earth, as they are not sure about paradise. Muhammad rode in his dreams on a horse with a woman's head. Buraq was her name. He sure knew how to degrade women and make them feel they are so great. That idea was Greek mythology, like Zeus and Hercules. When Mo was born a light shone from his mother's vagina.
Arabian tales. The Flying Arab Prophet! A comic book title. BURAQ, the magic horse!
Donald Morgan is enjoying his new found fame as a white convert to Islam. He knows how the Arabic white types feel about European white type men converting to Islam, so Donald is enjoying his 15 minutes of infamy.
If this is an example of the intelligence of the average convert, this is truly embarassing to the white Europeans convert. The Nazis did this.
Dr. Sina, Thank you! The
Dr. Sina,
Thank you! The more I read articles and stories from this site (and the comments) the more I begin to fully understand what I had gotten myself into. It seems I learn something new everyday and am reminded of things I've already learned. thank you....keep up the awesome work!
Pk, Thank you very much....I
Pk,
Thank you very much....I did like it. So not to get everyone off track, I'll throw out an email address sometime and you can write me there if you like...take care!
Oh, one more thing Dr.
Oh, one more thing Dr. Sina,
It is interesting that Karen Armstrong came up because I have been meaning to ask you or readers what you guys think of her. I've read a few of her books.....but it was quite a while ago and I don't remember exactly what she said....I did not read the one specifically on Islam, though....but thank you for your opinion on her content.
Hello, i've been following
Hello, i've been following this site for a while... My name is andre from Indonesia, a great country without those corrupting it :)
Raisin, when I'm talking
Raisin, when I'm talking about peaceful islam I mean muslims interpreting islam as only a peaceful religion. And these are majority of muslims. When somebody steal, kills or rape, to these peaceful muslims these actions are unislamic. Most muslims do not read the quran to understand if the views are based on correct quranic teachings or not. They all depend on the select few scholars and mullahs. If one sheepfolk is fortunate to be led by a mullah or scholar who advocates peace, morals and piety, there is no doubt this is going to be a pious community. How often have you toured in an islamic community and you are welcome with fervor, benevolence and affection? To them muhammad was a nice, tender, babyface, handsome man. To them muhammad is like Jesus to christians. This is also the reason why many muslims still do not believe if Osama is real.They think it is a ploy of Mossad or CIA to attak the islamic world for oil. They cannot imagine how could 911 be perpetrated by muslims, when all they know is Islam means peace. And to me I've no problem with these people. If they are stuck in their ignorance and delusions that Islam means peace and they are honest about it so why should I be worried. You will find this type of islam and muslims in completely secular countries. This is the reason a full scale, politically incorrect battle about Islam is so hard to gain support in western countries because of the empathy politicians and so-called progressives have for these type of muslims.
On the other side we have a pure brand islam which takes literally everything in the quran and ahadith. Here we have the taliban, wahhabis, iranians clerics, now we have the somali shabab, muslim apologists in the west and east, the list is endless. These are few in number among muslims but they are the most poweful of all. The survival and propagation of islam in its purer form depend on these people. The economy of muslim world depend on these people. The intellectual strength to use all available methods there is in a book to ensure survival of islam is possessed by them. Be it lies, cunningness or terrorism they never care piety or morals as long as it is will serve the best for islam.
To Ibrahim: Thanks for your
To Ibrahim:
Thanks for your offer to send Ali`s book. I still think his views are too radical, so they may perhaps cause me indigestion at this time. Let me take things at my pace, with gradual undersatnding.
Ibn Kamunna says:
"Islam puts “Muhammad and his teachings” above reason"
That is what I am trying to understand. Political reasons apart, Why is that?Politically, this is not sustainable for centuries.
Of course Salim politics
Of course Salim politics alone are not sufficient to propel islam throughought centuries. There is another factor: a religious component of islam. Every person out there needs a god to cling for hope especially during times of need. People need hope more than anything else. And since muhammad provided this sense of hope, especially of hedonic paradise with at least one characteristic of what we have experienced in this life e.g. sex, then people will rather die today for this hope. This is one reason we have suicide bombers. This is the reason Nasrallah says we love death more than life. It is all for all religions. Christianity also gurantees hope. But not many people will love a christian paradise. One day Jesus was asked to desribe paradise, since he claimed to know God ever more than Moses or any other biblical prophet knew. To their dissapointment he replied there is no sex, no eating or drinking, or any other bliss you have ever experienced in this life. They never returned and rejected him outright. So Salim, islam spread and survived partly due to its agressive approaches backed by its political positions and once it had been affirmed of its position in the world stage, it was easy to survive as a religion since there are so many people outh there willing to join any religion or cult.
Hello, I have been following
Hello, I have been following FFI for over a year now. I am a man from Holland, raised as a Christian, but I am now an atheist (I don't like the word, I like it more to say I now believe in Democracy & Science, hence Demsci). I greatly admire Ali Sina + many of his co-writers. I especially enjoyed his and their debates and I read really all of them on this site. The defenders of Islam are called Apologists. I felt that Ali Sina + others almost always won their debates with them. I consider that this partly was due to the nearly impossible position of the apologists; namely trying to prove somehow that their holy book was divinely inspired, without any contradictions or faults. This way they set themselves up for defeat. Donald Morgan, Saadiq Mohammed, is also an apologist. He is a smart, well-spoken, well-mannered guy of 31, who teaches and who traveled a lot. Although I was not impressed with his arguments, at least he tried to give good sources. But when you try to be as honest, logical, unprejudiced as you can, these apologists are hard to refute. Also because it is a lot of work backing your arguments with good sources. But these debates certainly inspire me to think hard. (And reading I did a lot all my life already). And they inspired first Amar Khan, then Ali Sina to great responses, with much logic in it, with the use of good sources. Amar Khan was also courteous whereas Ali Sina was much rougher on Donald Morgan. But I enjoyed this too, because to my mind Ali Sina makes the distinction between a bad religion and the people who are its believers. Whom he respects, wants to save from this religion. I read most of Donald Morgans arguments but to me they looked far-fetched, besides the point. To me Amar Khan and Ali Sina won, to me they were closer to the truth. However, I much appreciated Donalds effort to debate at all, to reply logically and patiently to the objections against Islam and its followers. Sometimes the arguments of apologists improve my thinking very much, as for days I think of how best to reply honestly, sometimes agreeing with one or the other debater, conceding points, changing my mind, sometimes finding great answers myself. And I suppose other debate-followers are the same. So I suppose debates like these are very useful. It seems to me that apologists do 2 things very well: I. They can make it appear that what their religion tells us just MIGHT be true, however improbable it looks at first. II. They can make it appear that the positions of critics MAY BE invalid, by discrediting them. But I think this is insufficient for them to win, because they make such high, improbable claims about their holy book, their God, their Prophet, that it is far too little whatever they can provide in credibility for these claims. And the criticisms are so many and so devastating that it is very improbable that they are all completely invalid. And only a small part of the criticisms is ever really (effectively) countered by the apologists. As far as I can tell of course. So often I noticed important criticisms were being "ducked" by apologists. So often they resorted to ad hominem, straw man, red herrings, tu quoque and other logical fallacies. This is also my personal experiences when I argue with my Islamic colleagues, most of whom I like really well. Most often though, with them I get no real chance for debate, because they get angry or evasive VERY soon when I try, making me feel I jeopardize our friendship when I go on, so I don't. Anyway this mostly happens when I respond to them when they make derogatory statements about America, Israel or known Islam-critics, like our Geert Wilders or Ayaan Hirsi Ali (whom I adore).
As Ali Sina I am optimistic about the future in regard to democracy worldwide. And even about a lot of apostacy. Many well educated people will want to think for themselves and search for the truth. And now there is so much information widely available. And many oppressed intelligent people will abhor their oppressors, so if the oppression is done in the name of Islam, that is not good for it. This is the great mistake of the Ayatollahs, making Islam in Iran so impopular by their cruel and inept rule (not giving way to honest elections (the ones they are holding are not real democratic elections)) that they themselves are among Islams worst enemies.
To Salim Brother, I think
To Salim
Brother, I think the best thing to understand why Islam continues is the "Cult Mentality". Ali Sina's book (the second half of the book) makes this matter very clear I think. Let me suggest you obtain the book and read at your own pace. No rush. Good thoughts and good ideas demand time and study. take care brother.
IK
Hi Ali Sina, You are about
Hi Ali Sina,
You are about to mentally disintegrate Morgan. He seems to be runing out of ideas.
Well done.
Salim the book contains facts
Salim the book contains facts and great comparitives. Anyway, its not important for you to read the book right now. You have a beautiful mind and take things as they come. However if you ever feel like reading the book, you can always count on me!
# 13 You are absolutely right
# 13
You are absolutely right Amar Khan. That was exactly my thinking too when I was writing my responses to him. He did not read my book or there would have been no rebuttal. Much more learned scholars, to whom I sent my book, who gave me all the assurances that they will, by the grace of Allah, write back to show my errors, and to inshaallah, guide me to the right path, never wrote back. This rookie was the ONLY person who wrote back with full confidence, riding on the highest horse. Wait to read part 7 of this debate where he writes his conclusion and see how he triumphantly beats his chest and celebrates his victory.
But I am not writing for him. There are many intelligent people who, through no fault of their own, are Muslims. I am writing for them. Honeybee is attracted to flower and fly to dung. There are some people who naturally love the dung of Islam and that is where they should stay. We cannot change the fly into honeybee, but we can help honeybees find the flower.
# 14
Salim,
Are you still a Muslim? Please send me an email to faithfreedom2 (at) gmail.com. I will send you my book. The book answers precisely your question. I am sorry other guys. This offer is only for Muslims, particularly those living in Islamic countries and it is my sole prerogative to give my book away for free. I have bills to pay and cannot live without food either. Writing is my job. I need to sell my book in order to continue writing. My articles on this site are free, my book is not. If you are not a Muslim please don’t ask for free copy and if you have a copy please do not put it online for free download and do not distribute it. The book is copyrighted. I found my book on several sites and I had to write to them and ask them to remove it. Don’t you think I am entitled to the fruit of my labor? How can I support myself and continue writing if you steal my work and distribute it for free? Instead of supporting us who fight Islam you stab us in the back. This is the sure way to defeat. Unlike what Muslims believe there is no organization helping us. We need to provide for ourselves and also pay for this site.
Hey Everyone,
Hey Everyone,
Donald Morgan definitely won the Debate........
HA..HA...HA...HA...HA...HA....
I hope you had a good laugh at this one. Peace to all. IK
Donald..Where are you buddy? Are you still in Canada, or did they send you out the border with a note "Not allowed back in" (you know: its the law against "Flawed thinkers" to be sent outside any decent country). Talk to us friend. and relax. It is only Muslims who threaten other people and their children, not the other way around. If I had your son in my home, I would protect him with my own life man. God is my witness to that. By the way, you have a really cute son. Take care of him brother, and protect him from all harm, especially "Islam". Can't you see that? Muhammad is no prophet. He was a lowly thug with a band of thiefs. He grew up in an age where physical power was everything, and thats what he did. Wake up Donald? For the sake of your own child man, Wake Up!
Sincerely yours, IK
Ik Salim lives in Pakistan,
Ik
Salim lives in Pakistan, there is no way in hell that he can obtain that book. Even if he somehow gets that book, he will be in deep shit if someone catches him. I think Ali Sina'a idea is the best, its better that he has a PDF file or something, rather than me sending him a copy of the book.
Dears Out of context,happen
Dears Out of context,happen to see this video & wanted to share it.Check this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9IL86T6Nc8&NR=1
peace_lover wrote: Ali
peace_lover wrote:
Ali Sina,
In part 3 of your debate you talked about how misleading wikipedia can be. I am writing a paper for my English Composition class. In the paper I am critiquing a book by Karen Armstrong called “Islam A short History”. I chose Karen Armstrong since she is considered to be an unbiased writer and is quoted extensively by Muslims and non Muslims alike. In the book she writes that in the battle of trench, seven hundred men of the Qurayzah were killed and their women and children were sold as slaves. But wikipedia article for ” Battle of the trench” says that women and children were left alone. Do they mean that selling them as slaves was leaving them alone? So either Karen Armstrong lied or Wikipedia is wrong. If Karen Armstrong is right, then prophet Mohammad did encourage slave trade. I wonder what Mr. Gordon thinks about Karen Armstrong.
peace_lover wikipedia gets most of their information from people who come to that site, not from actual scholars or experts in any field. Basically anyone who comes to that site is a self-titled scholar or expert.
Ali Sina wrote: Both
Ali Sina wrote:
Both Armstrong and Muslims lie.
That is why Muslims consider her as one of their apologists.
Ali Sina "coup de grâce" 4 X
Ali Sina "coup de grâce" 4 X 0 Donald Duck Drogan!
And remember to tell your mule mullah after farting your Adhan prayer!
There´s no Satan but Allah and MuuuuhCowMAD / Mumm-Ra-MAD is his Profit$$$$!
The Holy Charade (Shahada)!
Donald Morgan Also, the call
Donald Morgan
Also, the call to Islam Muhammad made attracted what type of people? According to Karen Armstrong, in her book titled ‘Islam’, the early followers of Muhammad were the poor and disenfranchised (with the exception given to Abu Bakr Siddiq and Khadijah). Again, if a person suffering from NPD aspires to have people of high rank or status be part of his inner circle of friends or companions, his message would have appealed to that type of person. Muhammad’s message appealed to the poor, sick and weak amongst the Arabs because it was a message of liberation. This is why a vast majority of those who first accepted Islam were poor, disenfranchised people, not people of wealth, status and power. As a matter of fact, those with wealth, status and power, the Quaraish of Makkah tried to stop Muhammad’s message by any means necessary.
Muhammed's message only appealed to a small group of people. The rest of his converts were raiders and theives looking for wealth.
Why does Ali Sina even bother having an argument with this bafoon?
#30 Mentally disintegrate?
#30
Mentally disintegrate? Nah he is degenerate and so he has converted in to this evil of islam.Soon he will start performing all the following things, if he is not already.See, in order to belong to this elite club of maha luv day mohammad you need to do a lot of things and be convinced that they are doing the right things. A pious recent convert will do these things to show to the other members of the club, that he means business.
so read on his true actions of what moslem does.
1.He will wake up very early and rushes to the nearest mosque to bang his head. If the mosque is too far away he will spread the rug and bang his head at home.
Nothing wrong so far except that he has to do this 5 times a day and 365 days a year! 99% of the moslems will not do this as it's not possible to rush to a mosque all the time. Home head banging exercise can be done, but then 5* 365= 1825 times of head banging and back side lifting will seriously damage ones brain and back side.Ahh but to be a moslem the one organ in the body not needed at all is brain.So no problem there.and as far back side, moslems like their damaged back side.
2.He will beat the crap out of his wife/ wives.He has to take extra wives being the sunnah and naturally there will be sublime tension between multiple awras (pudendas) at home.He has to look at a woman ( sorry awra , pudenda) as awra and always think of rakhsita.(sex) sunnah you see.
3.He has to shave off his moustache and keep an ugly untrimmed beard. If I am right he has done that. This gives that necessary ugly, mean, evil look besides the evil acts as well/
4.He will start wearing the trousers 1 foot above the ankle.Sunnah
5.He will soon start hating every one who does not follow the rapist rasool and will stop mixing with them.
6.He will cover all his wives in that black cloth.
7.He will want only halal meat and will stop visits to Mcdonalds.
8.All his friends will now look like him!
9.He will stop drinking alchohol ( a good side effect of the evil islam I should say) and will start smoking more.
10.He will be aggressive and short tempered.I mean who will not be after banging his head day in and day out 2000 times a year?
11.He will start his sunnah and it will soon be not easy.He will get the dik shortened.
12.He will start eyeing the neighbouring little girls( 6 years or younger) He will start inbviting his sons class mate girls home often. Hope the stupid kafirs know about his intentions and the change.
13.he will start beating women and children at home.
14.the day he rapes a little girl of 6 next door, his conversion will be complete and now he is ready for the Jihad sabib ul allah in simple terms kafir killing exercise.Now he is delusional and is thinking of 72 virgins he will screw and 28 boys as well. Just thinking of so much of rakhsita, he will have a floppy dik. He has to find kafirs around to eliminate.That in short the progress of the maha low day sadiq.Ahh wait there is short cut.Start the little girl raping sunnah of prophet and you will be a very pious and highly placed moslem! Why bother? no wonder islam is rapidly spreading in prisons.Criminals are the first subscribers to this evil magazine called qrand.
well said, proudkafir! don't
well said, proudkafir!
don't forget they will always try to make sharia law imposed to a country, and they say it only affect the islamist! what nonsense
Hey people watch this video,
Hey people watch this video, by lilly allen. http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=53614002823&h=-fdbE&u=SWF5A&re...
@Ibn Kammuna Donald Morgan
@Ibn Kammuna
Donald Morgan definitely won the Debate……..
April fool
Is there a continuity on this
Is there a continuity on this issue? i really like to read how these islamist try to justify their prophet, a funny thing in my boring work hour...oops..
Ali sina`s question: Salim,
Ali sina`s question:
Salim, Are you still a Muslim?
This simple question has difficult answer today. I could have answered unequivocally a few months back. I have been a total muslim till last id around when our local maulvi visited us and enquired of me how my rozas were going. I felt offended as to why someone should question me thus, afterall it was my choice and I was just recuperating from jaundice. Even my parents never asked me such question (except my grandmother, but I never minded anything she did because we have known each other for a really long time and now she is nearing 90 years of age). So I decided to explore Islam totally myself to draw my own conclusions.
My family is muslim though, although my father and mother are not all that practicing kind, though my very old grandmother is. Some day soon, I am going to get married and move out of my parent’s house and take certain independent decisions, although I am financially independent even now. In any case, whatever actions I undertake regarding islam, I cannot hurt my parent’s in any way and never my old granny, that is the least I could do to them who have brought me up. Perhaps, I would still say that I am muslim.
I understand that your book must come at a price worth your efforts. Right now, I think your views are radical since you attack the prophet right in the beginning and give justifications later on. That may bias my views one way or another. Right now, I think I must understand in my own way reading Omar Khayyam and Salim Chishti. Based on outcome, I will take next step reading your book (I promise I will buy because I can afford it and I don`t live in a muslim country, I live in Mumbai, even though Ibrahim has kindly agreed to make it available to me).
I am not convinced how Islam has still lasted, and I am probing it myself. Politically it could not have been possible. Akbar was a mighty emperor, he could have quit if that was the case. Even greed of heaven or fear of hell was not enough, because daring intellectuals like Mirza Ghalib or Zouk would have quit. Cult mentality was fair but not sufficient reason again, because cults die when the leaders vanish. Thanks for everybody`s response anyway.
Donald Morgan`s arguments have been very mediocre. I wish this kind of debate had never happened. It is sheer waste of time for someone who is trying to understand things in perspective to keep track of such debates.
To sum it up guys, When
To sum it up guys,
When muslims are in a minority they expressively want SECULAR LAW,(for the tumor to grow) & when in a majority they want SHARIA LAW.
Only 3 simple laws will prevent advance of Islam
1)Stop proletyzing.Bring anti conversion laws.Christians will be the first to protest,followed by the commies & then the muslims.
2)Strict family planing laws.A muslim can have only one child per wife.This is to prevent demographic change.
3)Electoral reforms--- Bring a system which avoids communal voting.(more a community votes as one,reduce the % of the votes)This will prevent ghetto mentality.
You can see,it is not realistic nor feasible.after visiting FFI,i visited few muslim houses who i felt were decent.They were decent & dignified,but scratch the surface,sorry to say--fanatics to the core.
Recently i met a paki doctor.He told me the school curriculum showed the existence of pakistan from prehistoric days.Only when you go to a post graduate course you get to know the proper world history.I wonder how we can defeat a brainwashed islam???
Yesterday, I was listening to
Yesterday, I was listening to a talkshow in which muslim convert was a guest.This guy, who convert from catholic, was telling his convert story. Guess what led to his conversion.....not having authoritative figure as in catholic. He was emphasizing how great islam is for not having authoritative figure and allowing its followers to communicate with god without middle man such and such. I was like, is that what he called appealing? This kind of stupidity never cease to amaze me. As for donald, I feel sorry for the kid for having a father like him He has no role model to look up to.
Dears the video i have
Dears the video i have presented above is about the gaza tunnels.Though the video takes a humane view,it missed a crucial point--smuggling of weapons(mentioned only once) which Israel was crying hoarse about.I just wanted you guys to see the truth of the tunnels.
Dear Salim,
Akbar was a mighty emperor but he was clever.He made peace with the hindus.Not the case with Aurangazeb.No doubt he too was a mighty emperor & the mughal empire was the largest during his rein.But he was irresponsible while dealing with hindus,though muslims say he was a true muslim.But he effectively caused the 2 conditions
1)shortened the life of the mughal empire, effectively muslims lost their political power.
2)Hindu muslim strife in present day India is traced back to Aurangazeb.
Salim since you have named
Salim since you have named Ghalib, let me remind you of a couplet by him "Jannat ke hakikat hameen maloom hai, lekin dil behlaneko khayaal accha hai ghalib"
Translation: I know the reality of Paradise, but its a good thought to entertain yourself.
Krishna says: Not the case
Krishna says:
Not the case with Aurangazeb.
Where is Aurangzeb in the picture here?
No doubt he too was a mighty emperor & the mughal empire was the largest during his rein.
In any case you are wrong again. After Shah Jahan lost Kandhar, it was never regained even though Dara Shikoh was sent there twice to campaign. Aurangzed could not expand in deccan as well. The Mughal empire was largest during Akbar. Read your history before commenting.
1)shortened the life of the mughal empire, effectively muslims lost their political power.
How is it relevant here.
2)Hindu muslim strife in present day India is traced back to Aurangazeb.
You are wrong again. It is traced to Allaudin Khilji who led mass conversions. Then it was Firoz Tughlak who started jaziya in India. As I said, read before you shoot. We already have enough morons here.
Ibrahim:
That was good one from Ghalib. That was exactly I said earlier, even with maverick views, he did not say against the prophet or islam. Why?