Debate with convert Donald Morgan Part 3
Submitted by Ali Sina on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 05:59
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Donald Morgan
The number one priority of a person suffering from NPD is the maintenance and preservation of his ego. If this person’s ego is challenged or compromised, he will become enraged. So, if Muhammad had NPD he would have called for the destruction of those responsible for embarrassing and humiliating him. He would have asked Gabriel to crush the city, killing all those who stoned him and belittled him in the streets. The fact that he did not give in to the offer made by Gabriel, shows us that he did not have NPD.
Ali Sina
Are you really this naïve? There was no Gabriel, buddy. It was all lies made up by that charlatan.
Yes Muhammad was unforgiving of those who humiliated him and injured his ego. When he broke the Hudaibiyyah treaty and made his Allah to “reveal” Sura 9, Bara;a (deliverance from keeping your treaty) and with 10,000 armed marauding men showed up at the gates of Mecca, the Meccans who had naively trusted this conman and his words were caught off guard. Abu Sufyan came out and made a deal with Muhammad to surrender with no fight in exchange that Muhammad desist killing anyone. Muhammad agreed. However, despite his promise he could not forgive those who had mocked and ridiculed him. Among them there were two singing and dancing girls who used to recite poetries mocking this pompous buffoon. He beheaded those hapless women and several others who used to laugh at him when he was living in Mecca. There are many stories that show Muhammad never forgot or forgave those who laughed at him. Christians say Satan cannot stand being ridiculed. Muhammad had no tolerance for that and so his followers who are ready to kill any number of people if someone laughs at their narcissist prophet or at them. Muslims’ sensitivity is more delicate then petal, but their hearts is harder than stone.
Donald Morgan
After his encounter in Ta’if, Muhammad collapsed and became weak. Some Makkans saw him and offered him shelter, until he could recuperate from his wounds. While in the company of these Makkans he made the following prayer to Allah:
‘O Allah, To Thee I complain of my weakness, my lack of resources and my lowliness before men. O most Merciful! Thou art the Lord of the weak and Thou art my Lord. To whom wilt Thou relinquish my fate! To one who will misuse me? Or to an enemy to whom Thou hast given power over me? If Thou art angry with me then I care not what happens to me. Thy favor is all that counts for me. I take refuge in the light of Thy countenance, by which all darkness is illuminated. And the things of this world and next are rightly ordered. I wish to please Thee until Thou art pleased. There is no power and no might save in Thee.’ (You can read about this story at the following link http://www.alislam.org/library/zafar/exampler.html )
Ali Sina
And in what ways this proves that Muhammad was not a narcissist? That is exactly how a narcissist would behave when humiliated and unable to take revenge. He would take a high moral ground and a better than thou posture. Did Muhammad remain so meek when he came to power? No! All that Christ like docility evaporated and a ruthless tyrant emerged. On numerous occasions, if a person made a remark slightly defiant of his authority, his face would turn red and Omar would unsheathe his sword asking permission to behead the insolent person. This was to intimidate people and deter anyone to dare questioning him or challenging his authority. All these are explained in my book. You chose not to read.
Muhammad became so haughty that when a group of Arabs came to see him and did not treat him like a king, he made his bogus Allah reveal verses telling people to respect his beloved prophet.
O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not. Those that lower their voices in the presence of Allâh's Messenger, their hearts has Allâh tested for piety: for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward. Those who shout out to thee from without the inner apartments - most of them lack understanding. (Q.49:2-4)
Muhammad had zero tolerance for dissent and less for being ridiculed. Don’t quote me stories of his “tolerance” of the time when he had no power to retaliate. What could he do in such a state of helplessness? Let us look into his deeds when he came to power and then see what an intolerant monster he became.
Donald Morgan
I want the readers to notice the part of his prayer that is printed in bold text. According to the DSM, NPD sufferers have a sense of entitlement and absolute power is what they crave. This is in direct conflict with Muhammad’s prayer. In his prayer he says he is weak and has a lack of resources. He even describes himself as being lowliness before men. These are not attributes a person with NPD attributes to himself. So we can conclude, again, that Muhammad did not have NPD.
Ali Sina
You obviously have no understanding of NPD. The sense of entitlement never left Muhammad throughout his life. However, narcissists play the role of victim always. You claim to have read my book. I know you didn’t. There is a long chapter that compares Muhammad and Jim Jones. Acting as a humble servant of God or of humanity is a distinct characteristic of a narcissist.
I quoted Dr. Vaknin who explained this point superbly. He wrote, "To avoid such intolerable pain, some patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) socially withdraw and feign false modesty and humility to mask their underlying grandiosity. Dysthymic and depressive disorders are common reactions to isolation and feelings of shame and inadequacy."
In page 89-90, I wrote:
When Muhammad was still weak and had few followers, he was courteous, attentive, compassionate, flexible, helpful and even feigned humility. There is a sharp contrast between the Qur’anic verses written during this period and those written in Medina when he became powerful and did not need to wear a mask to woo new converts with kindness. In Medina, he became demanding, tyrannical, willful, aggressive and exploitative. There he raided villages and towns and after killing unarmed men and looting them, demanded survivors submit to him, pay jizyah, or face death.
The following are examples Meccan verses:
1. Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously. (Q.73:10)
2. To you be your religion, and to me my religion. (Q. 109:6)
3. Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of your Lord. (Q.20:103)
4. Speak well to men. (Q.2:83)
5. We well know what the infidels say: but you are not to compel them. (Q.50:45)
6. Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant. (Q.7:119)
7. Pardon thou, with a gracious pardoning. (Q.15:85)
8. Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allâh. (Q.45:14)
9. Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians - any who believe in Allâh and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Q.2:62)
10. And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best. (Q.29:46)
Compare them to those written later in Medina when Muhammad became powerful.
1. Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (Q.9:123)
2. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off. (Q.8:12)
3. Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him. (Q.3:85)
4. Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. (Q.9:5)
5. Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out. (Q.2:191)
6. Fight them on until there is no more dissension and religion becomes that of Allâh. (Q.9:193)
7. Fight them, and Allâh will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Q.9:14)
8. Make no excuses: you have rejected Faith after you had accepted it. If we pardon some of you, we will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. (Q.9:66)
9. You who believe! Verily, the Mushrikûn (unbelievers) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the grand mosque at Mecca) after this year. (Q.9:28)
10. Fight those who do not believe in Allâh and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior. (Q.9:29)
You did not read my book and that is why you rehashed the same fallacy that I had already refuted. Even the most deadly snake is harmless when defanged. You cannot call a helpless man tolerant. Only those who have the power can prove their tolerance by not abusing it. Muhammad was not a tolerant man when he came to power.
Donald Morgan
Another instance of Muhammad’s humble nature comes to us from another instance in his life. The Arab pagans in Makkah realized that Muhammad’s message was gaining popularity amongst the people of Makkah. They viewed Muhammad’s message a threat to their economy and trade because Muhammad was preaching worship of one god. The Makkans made money from pagan rights because every year, the pagan Arabs would house their gods in the custody of the Kabbah. With this lingering threat to their livelihood they came to Muhammad with an offer. They offered him ‘status’, wealth and the keys to the Kabbah. In exchange, Muhammad was to cease all preaching and callings to the worship on one god. Muhammad’s uncle, Abu Talib, came to Muhammad with this offer. Muhammad’s response to this lucrative offer was:
‘O Uncle, if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand in order that I may leave my work, I will not do so. God will help me or I shall die in it.’
According to DSM, a person suffering from NPD craves power and will go through great lengths to attain it. The Makkans offered Muhammad what every NPD sufferer craves, status, wealth, power and the prestigious honor to own keys to the Kabbah itself. Any NPD sufferer would have jumped onto this opportunity at instant power and wealth. If Muhammad had NPD he would have agreed to these terms, instead he chose exile and ridicule by the pagan Arabs. This instance in the life Muhammad proves he did not have NPD. ( You can read this account)
Ali Sina
I am amazed at your gullibility and naiveté. First of all Monotheism was no threat to the economy of Mecca. There were many monotheist religions like Sabeans, Jews, Christians and Magians in Arabia. The followers of these faiths preached with no opposition and in freedom.
There were other monotheist prophets contemporary to Muhammad like Musailama and Sijah and they too had many followers. Although they never engaged in robbery and other crimes that distinguished Muhammad’s prophetic career, unlike him, they were successful among their own people. Their people did not call them mad and lunatics but actually believed in them.
Monotheism posed no threat to the Meccan economy. In fact after Muhammad raided and conquered Mecca the economy of that town improved and it kept improving as Islam expanded? Will you explain in what ways monotheism was a threat to the Meccan economy? You have gobbled every nonsense so uncritically that is truly worrisome.
You remind me of Almost Aisha’s words who wrote, “After my conversion, I felt a sense of peace and happiness that I had never before experienced in my life, and hope to never experience again.” Then she goes on to explain that the peace that she experienced was caused by numbing her intelligence and by believing in every baloney fed to her in the name of divine truth, uncritically. She woke up because she was smart. Are you ever going to wake up Donald? The difference is that she read my book in its entirety while you read a few pages and started writing your pathetic rebuttal. Yes she was just as confident about her newfound faith as you are, but she was intelligent enough to not shut all doors of investigation. She did not read my book to agree or learn something new, but to refute it. However she knew that in order to refute me she had to learn fully what I say. It was then that the truth struck her and she woke up from that numbing peacefulness.
You are not Almost Aisha. You are so full of yourself that don’t even bother to see what your opponent say and begin writing before knowing their position. You have no chance with me, but with this kind of attitude you lose even if you were on the right side of the argument. Not only your position is wrong, also your approach is wrong. As Sun Zi said, know your enemy before going to the battle. If you had read my book, you would not have won this debate, but you’d have saved yourself the humiliation.
I sent you my book for free. I sent it to hundreds of other Muslims. There is not a single Muslim who read my book and was not shaken by it. Today, I was chatting with my Italian friend. She asked who do you think will write the next century? I said. "me!" "Oh! Santa Maddonna santissima!" she exclaimed. I told her when the knowledge of Islam and particularly the truth about Muhammad's mental disorders spread and people understand that he was not a prophet, but a mentally sick man Islam will become history. Over a billion people will be liberated and a new era of peace will begin, and today's Islamic countries will come out of their misery and will prosper. This is a reality that is going to happen. Have no doubt about it. Then I clarified to her that it is not me personaly that I am talking about. Thanks heaven, I do not have narcissistic delusions of grandiosity. I said "me" in the manner of joke and to hear that lovely Italian exclamation. The truth is that it will be all of us apostates who understand Islam and spread that understanding that will write the next century. WE are going to write the future. It looks like you are not going to be part it Donald. You are not even in the present. You are stuck in the past incrusted in the seventh century.
One erudite Muslim who wrote a very polite letter asking for debate, after reading the book wrote to say I am the most dangerous person on earth, more dangerous than Christians or any enemy of Islam that has ever lived. He did not try to refute me, as you so pretentiously think you can, but only to convery his shock. Of course I am not a threat to any person, but sure I am to Islam. That man’s faith was shaken, just as the faiths of hundreds of Muslims who read my book is shaken. These people will one day come to their senses and will realize that they are only fooling themselves. That possibility is slim in your case, because your head is stuck deep in the sand. There is no one blinder than the one who does not want to see and no one deafer than the one who does not want to hear.
From what we read so far of your pearls of wisdom it is clear that you are not exceptionally smart. In fact you are quite naïve. I am sure there is nothing wrong with your intelligence, it’s just that you’ve so convinced yourself of a lie that you don’t look to see what others say. Instead of reading my book to try to refute it, you went on looking from which university Dr. Vaknin got his degree. How pathetic!
Just to set the records straight, Dr. Vaknin studied in 1982-3 in ENCINO, California called “Pacific.” (At that time it was replete with a campus with students, faculty, exams, and all the paraphernalia of higher education.) Later, to distinguish itself from other Pacific universities, it added the moniker "Western". Sometime during the 1990s it merged out of existence.
You dug a malicious rumor about Dr. Vaknin that claimed he obtained his degree from a diploma mill. This is very old hat and completely false. The "info" is maliciously (and libelously) was spread by Wikipedians, the anonymous editors of Wikipedia, a group with no face and responsibility. Anyone can become an editor of Wikipedia and many do for a vendetta to spread rumors about people they have an ax to grind against or to promote themselves.
This character assassination of Dr. Vaknin on Wikipedia was no different from what Muslims write about me. It was completely baseless, malicious and cowardly. Who stands behind anything written on Wikipedia? It’s foolish to rely on this open site to find facts about people. You cling to any straw because you are desperate.
See this page on this subject. http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/wikipedia.html
Responding to this malicious libel, Dr. Vaknin wrote, “I have never been to Hawaii, let alone studied there. The diploma mill that used to call itself "Pacific Western University" (and then was litigated into changing its name) was based in Honolulu. To obtain my Ph.D., I had to submit a dissertation and defend it. That I have a bona fide doctorate is very easy to prove: it is available from the Library of Congress and from UMI.”
You can find Dr. Vaknin’s doctoral dissertation in the Library of Congress Catalog by
1. Click on this link http://catalog.loc.gov/
2. Click on Basic Search 3. Select Author/Creator Browse from the Search Type pull-down menu 4. Type "Vaknin" in the Search Text dialog box. Vaknin’s books (and doctoral dissertation) are listed under Vaknin, Sam; Vaknin, Sem; and Vaknin, Samuel. To view his books click on "Vaknin, Samuel" and "Vaknin, Sem" and select the Full Record tabs. To view his doctoral dissertation, click on "Vaknin, Sam". You will be forwarded to a page titled: Time Asymmetry Revisited Select the Full Record tab. Vaknin’s dissertation is also included in UMI's databases (University Microfilms International). Click here to read some correspondence which may be of interest in this respect.Just like any other argument you presented, it is clear that you don’t do your research before opening your big mouth and making a fool of yourself. Instead of paying attention to what you read, even to refute it in a rational way, you went on ‘source hunting’ and when you found one of the hadiths in my book is referenced from a Sufi site, you berated that hadith without bothering to see that the same haith is quoted in several Sunni sites. You are not a scholar Donald. All you have done so far is pooh-pooh my sources without doing proper research. What a pathetic way of thinking? What a waste of intelligence? You are a waste of my time and I get a distinct pleasure humiliating you publicly. I have no sympathy for people who willingly refuse to use their brains and are deliberately malicious. If you were stupid I would be a lot more sympathetic to you. Since you are not stupid, but only arrogant and delusional, unwilling to use your brain, you don’t get my sympathy.
The Meccans did not offer wealth to Muhammad to make him desist preaching. This ludicrous claim can only be believed by the gullible Muslims whose brains, as Almost Aisha said, are at “peace.” What kind of rational people offer wealth to a prophet pretender to make him stop lying? Has such thing ever happened in the history of mankind? There is not a day that a crackpot does not claim to be a prophet, the messiah, the messenger of God, and what not; and there is no dearth of fools to believe in them. Can you show one single instance where one of these pretenders has been approached with money to stop preaching? How much stupidity is enough Donald?
Why would the Meccans want to offer money to a man they thought to be mad and majoon (jinn possessed)? They just laughed at him. They were understandably offended when he started maligning their sacred beliefs. What would Muslims do when someone slights Muhammad? Despite that the Meccans did not act violently. They boycotted him and his insolent followers, but never harmed them physically. These beguiled converts were the Meccan’s foolish sons and daughters. The Meccans did not want to harm them. I have explained this in my book. You did not read it. I showed that all those claims of persecution of Muslims are lies. The Meccans could easily get rid of Muhammad, but they didn’t. They were tolerant just as the world is today tolerant towards Muslims, whereas Muslims engage in terrism while at the same time they cry victim.
That story you are telling me is a lie. It is not in the hadith or in the Quran. It is a later day forgery. Even if it were in the hadith or in the Quran it would still be a lie because it goes against commonsense. People do not offer money and wealth to those whom they believe are liars. Meccans believed Muhammad was a liar. Why would they want to prize a liar with wealth when they could easily kill him if they wanted to silence him? It takes either a Muslim or an fool to believe in this balderdash. How many lies can you gobble before you explode?
Now, as an interesting note, I did receive an offer of $1,000,000 dollars to shut down faithfreedom.org. I got this email last year and I shared it with my fellow editors. I tried to engage that Muslim to elaborate further, unfortunately he did not respond. I asked him why does he want to give away so much money when all he has to do is refute one of my charges for me to shut down the site. His response was. “You are doing a lot of harm.” That is all I got from him and he did not reply my subsequent probing.
Why a Muslim would want to silence me with money? It’s because they cannot kill me. If they could get rid of me in a more economical way why would they want to prize someone whom they hate? It makes no sense. It is also likely that this person was not really serious, but was testing me. Well, one million dollars does not attract me. Tempt me with something of eight digits and I may think about it. (Just kidding)
Tommorrow Part 4 of this debate will be published. Please come back. You're not going to be disapointed. It is the best part of this series yet. If you are pregnant, don't come back tomorrow. Your child may be born prematurely.
More humiliation for Donald
More humiliation for Donald Morgan. Hey Morgan, why did you change your name to Saadiq? It is such a pathetic name. Use your logic and come to senses. Islam is the living filth on earth. Muslims can't understand that they are becoming filthy by emulating Muhammad.
[...] In Islamists Debate
[...] In Islamists Debate with convert Donald Morgan Part 3 Mar [...]
My God wat this man really
My God wat this man really wnat infact i dont understand
Mr Ali...plz dont mind bt u r really wasting ur time....
istead of Debating with thm...Preach to our Christian Coummunity...
they r jst like singing in front of COW..
they dotn understand..
thy jst Know thy will b in Heaven...and All Non Muslims will b Hell..so i love the Hell coz i really dnt need 72Horssss....
I stopped reading the drivel
I stopped reading the drivel by this zombie.I am not quite sure why did Ali Sina waste his precious time trying to enlighten this endarkened fellow in the grip of the evil islam.I am not going to read the trash he has written.I vaguely get the feeling that this cahppy is perhaps a paid agent of mohammad?
Donald is an idiot, some of
Donald is an idiot, some of my friends who are on Facebook told me about the sort of pompous stand he takes while presenting his pathetic debate. He is always riding a high horse and it was time that he was brought down from it. Actually Ali has given him a nice donkey ride with his head tonsured and face blackened.
Perhaps he had himself assumed that he has won the debate, for he does not even care to read what the other person has to say. When his opponent realises that he or she is banging his head against a wall, they just leave debating with him and Mr. Morgan declares victory.
rationalist wrote: "Hey
rationalist wrote: "Hey Morgan, why did you change your name to Saadiq?"
comment
Saadiq, I believe means a friend in Arabic
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Mr. Ali Sina and Muslim debates have become like a movie plot, you know the heroes, the villains, the triumph of good over evil .....etc..
@Poma: No, no and another no!
@Poma: No, no and another no! Don't distract him, he is doing a wonderful job for muslims...he is all ours ;) I just register to post this....am generally a leacher..
@a_comment: Nopes, ironically, it means "truthful" in arabic. Abu Bakr was given that title by muhammad after he confirmed that muhammad did fly to allah and back in a night....
@Donald: I am sad for you. I started as a muslim and through the use of my brain (given by "allah" :D) am on the right path now. Left Islam years ago at a very young age even before reading Ali Sina's site. Islam just doesn't make sense. Had to face so much opposition from my family. My mother even today bursts into tears when I talk to her about it...
You were not born an atheist but still in a society where there is little oppression when it comes to religion. Still...look at you now...am just plain sad for you. I hope you can get out of it.
@Sina: If there was a offer
@Sina: If there was a offer for one million, direct that guy to Zakir Naik...Remember he made the pathetic excuse that he can only fight for reward above 1 million...why not try?
There is no one person in his
There is no one person in his sane mind can convert to islam. Muhammad was trusted by gullible people and today people who convert to islam are either gullibles, debaucherers, deprived, love in case of western girls or for Petro$. Some muslim converts from christianity say they converted because christianity and trinity did not make sense. For me these people first were not christians at first place because it is incomprehensible to abandon christianity for islam if really that person understood christianity and tasted Christ. Secondly, if these converts see Islam is logical-then there is nothing else will they see illogical. No wonder to them pedophilia, jihad, hedonic paradise of sex and alcohol, angels harmering dead bodies in the graves, etc.. are all logical to them. I can't even imagine how can someone defend islam without resorting to lies.
---- However, narcissists
---- However, narcissists play the role of victim always. ---
Is a fact .
Just look at the present day Muslim Mullahs--Islamic Politicians.
Evil Islam has nothing to do with any God, any thing spiritual and for that matter any thing to do with Allah the Pimp (Dalla)God or Pedo. Mo.. It is all for/about politics. Power to rule people as dictators: not to serve, as democracy is supposed to server.
Jihad and the Islamic Mullahs need gullible fools to die/kill as suicide bombers .And to groom the idiots Islamic narcissist politicians true to their pedo prophet Mo. are playing the role of victims. Best example is Osama Bin Lund. ( Osama without a dick ) Who has tucked his dirty rabid tail between his hind legs and is running and hiding from the American Infidels. Osama is what Islam stands for.
Dirty little rabid dogs tucking their rabid tails between their hind legs and running and hiding from the Israeli Jews and Christian Americans. Islamic Allah Dallah is helpless and impotent to save Islam.
But the dalal supplies 6 year
But the dalal supplies 6 year old girls to the 50 and above
Sometimes words can't express
Sometimes words can't express the degenerated condition of these Muslims, PK up there said he will no longer read what Donald writes in this debate, well I second that opinion, this chap believes in the divinity of Mohammad, he is already blinded by faith that is why he appears childish to us.
No matter how sholarly a person is, once he/she believes in a contradiction free and inerrant quran his/her argument falls in Donald's category, remember, these people are ok with the roasting for eternity of more than half of humanity including a majority from their own Muslim women, these people are sick period!!
One minor correction Ali
One minor correction Ali regarding the dancing girls (who worked for Ibn Khatal) when Muhammad entered the Ka'ba: Only one of them got killed right away. The other came running and managed to get to Muhammad and begged him and he let her live. But other Muslims kept an eye on her. Later she got killed by someone who used his horse and stepped on her killing her.
Take care brother
How would a moslem react and
How would a moslem react and a normal rational human being would react to the following things.
1.A rasool split the moon in two. Rational thinking human being would say that's a load of bollocks.The moslems would say all the praise be to the pedo mohammad.He split the moon and joined it.Hamdulillah
2.RAsool aged 55 had sex witha girl aged 9! A rational human being would say eliminate the bastard. disgusting.Moslem would say hamdulillah.Get me girls aged 6 or 5.
3.Rasool married his own daughter in law. The rational human being will say that's disgusting and nail the bastard.Moslem will say hamdullilah.Son where is your wife? She will be with me tonight.
4.RAsool sleeps with slave after sending the wife away on a small pretext.The normal human being will say what a lecherous old bastard is this man.The moslem will say hamdullilah.Our prophet has constant erections and he has the power of 30 men
5.RAsool will say sun sets in a muddy pond.Rational thinking fellow will say that's absurd.Moslem will say ahh rasool knows the best
6.Rasool will say kil those not believing allah.The normal human being will say nonsense and avoid the fellow.Moscums will kill.
that in short is the way ,moscums are
Hello Akram, welcome brother.
Hello Akram, welcome brother. I have'nt seen you before. Are you from India or Pakistan, I am just guessing. Let me know if you are an indian, irrespective of whether you live in India or elsewhere.
My Email ID is ibrahim6661@gmail.com. I would be really glad to hear from you.
Donald Morgan need this
Donald Morgan need this debating forum to make him look supportive of Islam. He is a white convert to a religion where Arabs died and went to Paradise as they had converted a white European man. In America when they convert or marry a white female they feel they got one virgin, 71 more to go.
Why put his child on the picture? Maybe he really believes that Islam is true even though Dr. Sina showed him how crazy Prophet Mo was. This also proves how insane Donald Morgan really is and how insane his child might be, if he is allowed to be raised under Islam. So sad!
Muhammad was not only an evil racist liar, but he was insane. When people join Islam they are themselves crazy. Think about it. If the KKK and the Aryan nation of white racist dont know that where the word Aryan came from, when they call the REAL Aryans sand monkies, we have many problems. Today, the racist in Europe have joined the Muslim racists in attacking Jews, Blacks, and anyone else they feel unworthy. WW2 is proof of this alignment as Jews were killed, Blacks were sterilized (Rhineland Bastards), The Islamonazis did their thing and again today they are trying. Why dont people wake up and see?
PLEASE ALL HELP STOP THIS INSANITY. MEN LIKE DONALD MORGAN ARE SICK, SAD AND DANGEROUS. THERE ARE 1 BILLION SICK, SAD, AND DANGEROUS MORE LIKE MR. MORGAN.
I do not understand at all
I do not understand at all the necessity for so many debates, when all one (in right mind) has to think about is
"how on Earth any god can allow owning sex slaves or even slavery?" (as claimed in quran)
Any sane man should immediately dump any book containing such verses, or at the least come to a conclusion that this book is NOT given by any god. One need not make so much effort to realize this simple fact.
However, I think for most people their sense of morality has thoroughly been compromised (childhood brainwashing), otherwise they cannot consider this book (or others) as having originated and/or inspired from some god.
# 15 The picture of his child
# 15
The picture of his child was the only thing that could arouse some sympathy for him. His thinking is warped and his face is idiotic. He is a rude obnoxious man. A cute face of a child gave some humane dimension to the otherwise repugnant mix.
He had no problem with that picture when I first published it. He did not object to it, even though he was immediately informed of the article and saw the picture. It was only after the second article was published that and he realized how he has been humiliated publicly that he tried to make that picture an issue and claim the life of that little child is in danger. What an idiotic argument. First of all that picture is on his Facebook and anyone can see. Secondly since when non-Muslims have been killing Muslims, let alone their children that this guy is should be worried about the life of his child? Could he come up with a more asinine excuse?
Please don’t fall for the manipulation of this clown. The reason he started to make that scene was not because he thought the life of his child is in danger. He is not that stupid after all. The reason was that with the second part he realized his mistake of challenging me. What was left for a person who is humiliated publicly but to find an excuse, no matter how silly, to portray himself as a victim? These are all mind games. After all every Muslim is a reflection of Muhammad and therefore a mini Muhammad. They are open books to me. They may fool others but they do not fool me. Once you understand Muhammad you understand every Muslim.
Ali Sina (my hero, each day
Ali Sina (my hero, each day that passes I admire him more and more -> since "I believe in Bugs Bunny", I died of laughing for 2 weeks, a must-read) 3 X 0 Mumm-Rá-Mad´s(or MuuuuhCowMad´s) servant´s slave.
I wonder if this servant´s
I wonder if this servant´s slave "Ronald Gordon" Drogan would still be pleased to Uzi(al-Uzza) believers when they come to destroy their country.
Well, I hope he learned his
Well, I hope he learned his lesson. If he chooses not to become an X-Muslim, hopefully he's learn not to debate one....especially someone of Dr. Sina's status!
Ppl, that is why we must keep educating ourselves.....
Education = freedom.....hopefully more and more Muslims will realize that!
@islamophobic I wonder if
@islamophobic
I wonder if this servant´s slave “Ronald Gordon” Drogan would still be pleased to Uzi(al-Uzza) believers when they come to destroy their country.
Well, being a muslim, if that happens, he would allow his wife to be taken and let those believers sell her in flea market as in islamic history. That what mohammad did and he's the person whom he worship. What do u expect other than that?
@Mr.Sina I would have taken
@Mr.Sina
I would have taken that offer, if I were you and tell him how grateful I am for the substantial donation that he made to strengthen FFI. That would surely do make him feel like blowing himself up.
The number one priority of a
The number one priority of a person suffering from NPD is the maintenance and preservation of his ego. If this person’s ego is challenged or compromised, he will become enraged. So, if Muhammad had NPD he would have called for the destruction of those responsible for embarrassing and humiliating him. He would have asked Gabriel to crush the city, killing all those who stoned him and belittled him in the streets. The fact that he did not give in to the offer made by Gabriel, shows us that he did not have NPD.
Dude there was no Gabriel, Muhammed made him up. Muhammed made that story up so he would not lose face and look good to the Arabs. That shows he had NPD.
your logic shows how much you know about psychology and your religion, which is nothing. It also proves how much of Ali Sina's book you did read, which was nothing.
Another instance of Muhammad’s humble nature comes to us from another instance in his life. The Arab pagans in Makkah realized that Muhammad’s message was gaining popularity amongst the people of Makkah. They viewed Muhammad’s message a threat to their economy and trade because Muhammad was preaching worship of one god. The Makkans made money from pagan rights because every year, the pagan Arabs would house their gods in the custody of the Kabbah. With this lingering threat to their livelihood they came to Muhammad with an offer. They offered him ‘status’, wealth and the keys to the Kabbah. In exchange, Muhammad was to cease all preaching and callings to the worship on one god. Muhammad’s uncle, Abu Talib, came to Muhammad with this offer. Muhammad’s response to this lucrative offer was:
‘O Uncle, if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand in order that I may leave my work, I will not do so. God will help me or I shall die in it.’
Monotheism was no threat to polytheism because history shows, polythiests, Christians, Jews, and other religions, co-existed peacefully with each other in Arabia. Polytheists have no problems co-existing with other religions because they believe in many gods and respect the gods of other religions.
Your logic and rationality
Your logic and rationality also show that your ego is bigger then your brain.
"Tommorrow Part 4 of this
"Tommorrow Part 4 of this debate will be published. Please come back. You’re not going to be disapointed. It is the best part of this series yet. If you are pregnant, don’t come back tomorrow. Your child may be born prematurely."
Not pregnant. I'll sure be back!
GREAT JUDGEMENT FROM SUPREME
GREAT JUDGEMENT FROM SUPREME COURT OF INDIA
SC rejects Muslim's plea, says no 'Talibanisation of India'
March 31, 2009
New Delhi: Rejecting the plea of a Muslim student that he should be permitted to sport beard in his convent school, the Supreme Court on Monday observed secularism cannot be overstretched and that "Talibanisation" of the country cannot be permitted.
"We don't want to have talibans in the country. Tommorow a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa, can we allow it," Justice Markandeya Katju speaking for a bench headed by Justice Raveendran observed.
Asserting that he was a secularist to the core, Justice Katju however said religious beliefs cannot be overstretched.
"I am secularist. We should strike a balance between rights and personal beliefs. We cannot overstretch secularism," the judge known for his incisive remarks said.
Justice Katju passed the obsesrvation while dismsissing the petition of the student. Mohammad Salim of Nirmala Convent Higher Secondary School, a government-recognised minority institution in Madhya Pradesh, has sought quashing of the school regulation requiring students to be clean-shaven.
Challenging a Madhya Pradesh High Court verdict that had earlier dismissed his plea, Salim submitted that every citizen was entitled to follow his religious principles and that no one should restrain him from doing so in a secular country like India.
Salim's counsel Justice (retd) B A Khan argued before the bench that sporting beard was an indispensable part of Islam.
But Justice Katju was apparently not impressed with the argument and quipped "But you (Khan) don't sport a beard?" the judge asked the counsel.
The apex court then said that a minority institution has its own set of rules and rights provided by Article 30 of the Constitution and the same cannot be breached by any person.
"If there are rules you have to be. You can't say that I will not wear a uniform I will only a burqa," the bench observed.
The court further said if the student was not interested in following the rules then he has the option of joining some other institution.
"More humiliation for Donald
"More humiliation for Donald Morgan. Hey Morgan, why did you change your name to Saadiq?"
To please his boss mullah muhammad.
Wonderful ruling by the
Wonderful ruling by the Judge. We need more people like him.....
@Akram names sounds like
@Akram
names sounds like Asian esp Pakistan..
well dear akram
things are getting change..now its not easy for Paki Christians to b freely Preach
[...] Part 1 of this debate
[...] Part 1 of this debate is here Part 2 is here Part 3 is hare [...]
I have had the misfortune of
I have had the misfortune of working with moslems from different parts of the world.
One trait common to all moslems is that they lose temper when evr Islamic practice is questioned even remotely. If you suggest any thing that could be considered as going against the pisslamic logic, they would get disturbed.Its a trait seen in moslems only.Can any one explain this?
I was discussing with some arab moslem about the change of timings they practice during the holy madness months.When day becomes night and night becomes day! I felt that the fasting from sun dawn to dusk is no big deal as many of us any way do it.There is a system of cleansing in our tradition, where every 15 days we fast a day! He was very up set and said, this.there was no religion before islam and islam is the greatest religion!
Another cretin from egypt said Arabic language is the oldest language as the islam is the oldest religion from GOD allah low day.
We also had the opportunity to discuss the use of dates by diabetics with an egyptian doctor.He says the dates are good for diabetics and for some reason known only to allah the dates do not increse the blood sugar amongst diabetics!
Another idiot aramb moslem ofcourse, felt that the Hepatitis B and C in sodi barbaria spreads by non sexual transmission route! As he felt that the sex between two strangesr in sodi barbaria was rare.I used to have doc friend who always used to wear gloves to eaxmine the arab cretins as he was aware that the HIV +ve rate is 50% among young arabs males.
Discuss any thing with a moslem, he is game( not that he knows a lot) but religion and that too islam is a no no. The moslems are beyond repair stupid.But they expect us also to be stupid.That I think is not possible as stupidity is agenetic endowments for moslems.They inherit and purify stupidity
Proudkafir wrote: I used to
Proudkafir wrote:
I used to have doc friend who always used to wear gloves to eaxmine the arab cretins as he was aware that the HIV +ve rate is 50% among young arabs males.
Are you sure it's not higher? Like 75% or 90%?
First #17 Ali Sina I sent
First #17 Ali Sina
I sent you a request to remove the first picture as soon as it was posted so stop lying. The only reason it took so long was because he had to communicate between a third party on facebook who knows you and I. Initially, when we decided to debate, i gave you NO persmission to post any picture of me. you posted on your own accord. Facebook is apublic forum but others can not see your picyures unless you accept them as a friend. In my list I have nothing but family and close friends, which i have no problem showing my personal pictures to, you on the other hand are someone I added because you came to me with the friend request and i thought i could have a civil debate with you. i took this apersonal attack because my son did nothing to you, so why post his picture here?
Here is my counter rebuttal
Here is my counter rebuttal to this section
Counter rebuttal part 3
Like part 2, I will structure this part with my original debate first, Ali Sina’s response second, and my counter rebuttal third.
Donald Morgan
The number one priority of a person suffering from NPD is the maintenance and preservation of his ego. If this person’s ego is challenged or compromised, he will become enraged. So, if Muhammad had NPD he would have called for the destruction of those responsible for embarrassing and humiliating him. He would have asked Gabriel to crush the city, killing all those who stoned him and belittled him in the streets. The fact that he did not give in to the offer made by Gabriel, shows us that he did not have NPD.
Ali Sina
Are you really this naïve? There was no Gabriel, buddy. It was all lies made up by that charlatan.
Yes Muhammad was unforgiving of those who humiliated him and injured his ego. When he broke the Hudaibiyyah treaty and made his Allah to “reveal” Sura 9, Bara;a (deliverance from keeping your treaty) and with 10,000 armed marauding men showed up at the gates of Mecca, the Meccans who had naively trusted this conman and his words were caught off guard. Abu Sufyan came out and made a deal with Muhammad to surrender with no fight in exchange that Muhammad desist killing anyone. Muhammad agreed. However, despite his promise he could not forgive those who had mocked and ridiculed him. Among them there were two singing and dancing girls who used to recite poetries mocking this pompous buffoon. He beheaded those hapless women and several others who used to laugh at him when he was living in Mecca. There are many stories that show Muhammad never forgot or forgave those who laughed at him. Christians say Satan cannot stand being ridiculed. Muhammad had no tolerance for that and so his followers who are ready to kill any number of people if someone laughs at their narcissist prophet or at them. Muslims’ sensitivity is more delicate then petal, but their hearts is harder than stone.
My counter rebuttal:
Ali Sina this is one of the biggest lies you have conveyed so far in this debate. Before I expose this liar, I want to point out that Ali Sina gave NO references to this story so that the readers can verify what it says. Ali Sina failed to provide us with a reference on purpose because he is lying to us all about the accounts of the Hudaibiyyah treaty. This is the true story Ali Sina doesn’t us to see:
The Hudaibiyyah truce was agreed upon by the Makkans and Muhammad, after Muhammad tried to enter Makkah, peacefully, with 1400 companions. It was their intention to perform the Umrah (pilgrimage) to Makkah to perform religious rites. The Makkans heard about this and stopped the convoy of Muslims from entering Makkah. The true was signed as a result. This truce was to last 10 years and ushered in an era of peace between the Makkans and the Muslims. Two years later, that truce was broken by the Makkans, after which, Muhammad, accompanied by 10,000 companions, took over custody of Makkah. The inhabitants of Makkah were scared at the approaching wave of Muslims, as they thought they would all be slaughtered, but upon entering Makkah, the prophet made the proclamation that all were safe and no one was to be harmed. Thus Makkah was taken peacefully. Here is the following Hadith that described the events:
"In the name of God. These are the conditions of Peace between Muhammad (SAW), son of Abdullah and Suhayl ibn Amr the envoy of Mecca. There will be no fighting for ten years. Anyone who wishes to join Muhammad (SAW) and to enter into any agreement with him is free to do so. Anyone who wishes to join the Quraish and to enter into any agreement with them is free to do so. A young man, or one whose father is alive, if he goes to Muhammad without permission from his father or guardian, will be returned to his father or guardian. But if anyone goes to the Quraish, he will not be returned. This year Muhammad (SAW) will go back without entering Mecca. But next year he and his followers can enter Mecca, spend three days, perform the circuit. During these three days the Quraish will withdraw to the surrounding hills. When Muhammad and his followers enter into Mecca, they will be unarmed except for sheathed swords which wayfarers in Arabia always have with them." (Sahih Muslim 19:4401)
Here is the proof that the Makkans, not Muhammad, broke the truce:
“Khuza’ah had no choice but to inform the Messenger, their ally, that Banu Bakar and their allies Quraysh had unilaterally broken the treaty of Hudaybiyah by attacking them. The Messenger promised them, "I will prevent from you what I will prevent from myself." (Ibn Hishaam)”
Here is proof that Makkah was taken without bloodshed:
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/religion/islam/Mohammad.htm
http://www.saudiembassy.net/Country/Islam/IslDetail1.asp
http://www.moe.gov.sa/openshare/EnglishCon/About-Saud/Religion1.htm_cvt....
I can give a hundred links to the same story and all these sites are unanimous in saying that Muhammad took Makkah without violence and without bloodshed. So who is lying here, all these people or Ali Sina? It is fair to say Ali Sina is the liar because I have exposed him as being a liar in my former counter rebuttals, once a liar, always a liar.
Donald Morgan
After his encounter in Ta’if, Muhammad collapsed and became weak. Some Makkans saw him and offered him shelter, until he could recuperate from his wounds. While in the company of these Makkans he made the following prayer to Allah:
‘O Allah, To Thee I complain of my weakness, my lack of resources and my lowliness before men. O most Merciful! Thou art the Lord of the weak and Thou art my Lord. To whom wilt Thou relinquish my fate! To one who will misuse me? Or to an enemy to whom Thou hast given power over me? If Thou art angry with me then I care not what happens to me. Thy favor is all that counts for me. I take refuge in the light of Thy countenance, by which all darkness is illuminated. And the things of this world and next are rightly ordered. I wish to please Thee until Thou art pleased. There is no power and no might save in Thee.’ (You can read about this story at the following link http://www.alislam.org/library/zafar/exampler.html )
Ali Sina
And in what ways this proves that Muhammad was not a narcissist? That is exactly how a narcissist would behave when humiliated and unable to take revenge. He would take a high moral ground and a better than thou posture. Did Muhammad remain so meek when he came to power? No! All that Christ like docility evaporated and a ruthless tyrant emerged. On numerous occasions, if a person made a remark slightly defiant of his authority, his face would turn red and Omar would unsheathe his sword asking permission to behead the insolent person. This was to intimidate people and deter anyone to dare questioning him or challenging his authority. All these are explained in my book. You chose not to read.
Muhammad became so haughty that when a group of Arabs came to see him and did not treat him like a king, he made his bogus Allah reveal verses telling people to respect his beloved prophet.
O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not. Those that lower their voices in the presence of Allâh’s Messenger, their hearts has Allâh tested for piety: for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward. Those who shout out to thee from without the inner apartments - most of them lack understanding. (Q.49:2-4)
Muhammad had zero tolerance for dissent and less for being ridiculed. Don’t quote me stories of his “tolerance” of the time when he had no power to retaliate. What could he do in such a state of helplessness? Let us look into his deeds when he came to power and then see what an intolerant monster he became.
My counter rebuttal
Again, like you have done earlier, you provide us with a story, but NO reference to verify the story. I have already proven that you lied in the first story about the treaty and here, you are lying again. I will not address your fictional stories Ali Sina because I am tired of making you look bad. I will, however, address the verses from the Quran you quoted. You have not quoted the whole passage here, and in doing so, you are able to push your false agenda. Here are the other verses Ali Sina did not quote:
‘And if they had patience till you could come out to them, it would have been better for them. And Allah is oft forgiving, most merciful.’ (Quran 49:5)
These verses refer to the people’s eagerness to talk to or hear Muhammad speak. They would call to him, with loud voices, trying to gain his attention. These verses address this by saying it is best for the Muslims to speak to him with a calm voice. It does not mean what you say it means Ali Sina.
Yusuf Ali, in his English translation of the Quran, which is the most popular and accepted English translation in the Muslim world comments, saying:
‘To shout aloud to your leader from outside his apartment shows great disrespect both for his person, his time, and his engagements. Only ignorant fools would be guilty of such unseemingly behavior. It is more seemingly for them TO WAIT AND BIDE THEIR TIME UNTIL HE IS FREE TO COME OUT AND ATTEND TO THEM’ (Yusuf Ali English Translation of the Quran, page 1589, footnote number 4923).
These verses were not revealed when a group of Arabs came to Muhammad, as you claim Ali Sina. I don’t know why you have resorted to lies to prove your point. Did you think you could get away with such lies?
Donald Morgan
I want the readers to notice the part of his prayer that is printed in bold text. According to the DSM, NPD sufferers have a sense of entitlement and absolute power is what they crave. This is in direct conflict with Muhammad’s prayer. In his prayer he says he is weak and has a lack of resources. He even describes himself as being lowliness before men. These are not attributes a person with NPD attributes to himself. So we can conclude, again, that Muhammad did not have NPD.
Ali Sina
You obviously have no understanding of NPD. The sense of entitlement never left Muhammad throughout his life. However, narcissists play the role of victim always. You claim to have read my book. I know you didn’t. There is a long chapter that compares Muhammad and Jim Jones. Acting as a humble servant of God or of humanity is a distinct characteristic of a narcissist.
I quoted Dr. Vaknin who explained this point superbly. He wrote, “To avoid such intolerable pain, some patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) socially withdraw and feign false modesty and humility to mask their underlying grandiosity. Dysthymic and depressive disorders are common reactions to isolation and feelings of shame and inadequacy.”
In page 89-90, I wrote:
When Muhammad was still weak and had few followers, he was courteous, attentive, compassionate, flexible, helpful and even feigned humility. There is a sharp contrast between the Qur’anic verses written during this period and those written in Medina when he became powerful and did not need to wear a mask to woo new converts with kindness. In Medina, he became demanding, tyrannical, willful, aggressive and exploitative. There he raided villages and towns and after killing unarmed men and looting them, demanded survivors submit to him, pay jizyah, or face death.
The following are examples Meccan verses:
1. Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously. (Q.73:10)
2. To you be your religion, and to me my religion. (Q. 109:6)
3. Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of your Lord. (Q.20:103)
4. Speak well to men. (Q.2:83)
5. We well know what the infidels say: but you are not to compel them. (Q.50:45)
6. Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant. (Q.7:119)
7. Pardon thou, with a gracious pardoning. (Q.15:85)
8. Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allâh. (Q.45:14)
9. Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians - any who believe in Allâh and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Q.2:62)
10. And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best. (Q.29:46)
Compare them to those written later in Medina when Muhammad became powerful.
1. Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (Q.9:123)
2. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off. (Q.8:12)
3. Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him. (Q.3:85)
4. Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. (Q.9:5)
5. Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out. (Q.2:191)
6. Fight them on until there is no more dissension and religion becomes that of Allâh. (Q.9:193)
7. Fight them, and Allâh will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Q.9:14)
8. Make no excuses: you have rejected Faith after you had accepted it. If we pardon some of you, we will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. (Q.9:66)
9. You who believe! Verily, the Mushrikûn (unbelievers) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the grand mosque at Mecca) after this year. (Q.9:28)
10. Fight those who do not believe in Allâh and the last day… and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior. (Q.9:29)
You did not read my book and that is why you rehashed the same fallacy that I had already refuted. Even the most deadly snake is harmless when defanged. You cannot call a helpless man tolerant. Only those who have the power can prove their tolerance by not abusing it. Muhammad was not a tolerant man when he came to power.
My counter rebuttal
I have already proven that Sam Vaknin is not a qualified source of information when speaking about NPD. With this being known, I find it fruitless to respond to your claims, as it relates to Sam Vaknin. If you can answer the challenge I posted to you Ali Sina in part one of my counter rebuttal, then we might be able to consider Sam Vaknin’s words more seriously, until then Sam Vaknin is an invalid source of information.
As for the verses of the Quran you quote: once again you are trying to throw out so many ‘red hearings’ that it would be impossible for me address every verse you quoted. I will not address these verses here, as it would be too long, but I will address these verses in a separate article, that I will write, once I am done with this counter rebuttal.
Donald Morgan
Another instance of Muhammad’s humble nature comes to us from another instance in his life. The Arab pagans in Makkah realized that Muhammad’s message was gaining popularity amongst the people of Makkah. They viewed Muhammad’s message a threat to their economy and trade because Muhammad was preaching worship of one god. The Makkans made money from pagan rights because every year, the pagan Arabs would house their gods in the custody of the Kabbah. With this lingering threat to their livelihood they came to Muhammad with an offer. They offered him ‘status’, wealth and the keys to the Kabbah. In exchange, Muhammad was to cease all preaching and callings to the worship on one god. Muhammad’s uncle, Abu Talib, came to Muhammad with this offer. Muhammad’s response to this lucrative offer was:
‘O Uncle, if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand in order that I may leave my work, I will not do so. God will help me or I shall die in it.’
According to DSM, a person suffering from NPD craves power and will go through great lengths to attain it. The Makkans offered Muhammad what every NPD sufferer craves, status, wealth, power and the prestigious honor to own keys to the Kabbah itself. Any NPD sufferer would have jumped onto this opportunity at instant power and wealth. If Muhammad had NPD he would have agreed to these terms, instead he chose exile and ridicule by the pagan Arabs. This instance in the life Muhammad proves he did not have NPD. ( You can read this account)
Ali Sina
I am amazed at your gullibility and naiveté. First of all Monotheism was no threat to the economy of Mecca. There were many monotheist religions like Sabeans, Jews, Christians and Magians in Arabia. The followers of these faiths preached with no opposition and in freedom.
There were other monotheist prophets contemporary to Muhammad like Musailama and Sijah and they too had many followers. Although they never engaged in robbery and other crimes that distinguished Muhammad’s prophetic career, unlike him, they were successful among their own people. Their people did not call them mad and lunatics but actually believed in them.
Monotheism posed no threat to the Meccan economy. In fact after Muhammad raided and conquered Mecca the economy of that town improved and it kept improving as Islam expanded? Will you explain in what ways monotheism was a threat to the Meccan economy? You have gobbled every nonsense so uncritically that is truly worrisome.
You remind me of Almost Aisha’s words who wrote, “After my conversion, I felt a sense of peace and happiness that I had never before experienced in my life, and hope to never experience again.” Then she goes on to explain that the peace that she experienced was caused by numbing her intelligence and by believing in every baloney fed to her in the name of divine truth, uncritically. She woke up because she was smart. Are you ever going to wake up Donald? The difference is that she read my book in its entirety while you read a few pages and started writing your pathetic rebuttal. Yes she was just as confident about her newfound faith as you are, but she was intelligent enough to not shut all doors of investigation. She did not read my book to agree or learn something new, but to refute it. However she knew that in order to refute me she had to learn fully what I say. It was then that the truth struck her and she woke up from that numbing peacefulness.
You are not Almost Aisha. You are so full of yourself that don’t even bother to see what your opponent say and begin writing before knowing their position. You have no chance with me, but with this kind of attitude you lose even if you were on the right side of the argument. Not only your position is wrong, also your approach is wrong. As Sun Zi said, know your enemy before going to the battle. If you had read my book, you would not have won this debate, but you’d have saved yourself the humiliation.
I sent you my book for free. I sent it to hundreds of other Muslims. There is not a single Muslim who read my book and was not shaken by it. Today, I was chatting with my Italian friend. She asked who do you think will write the next century? I said. “me!” ”Oh! Santa Maddonna santissima!“ she exclaimed. I told her when the knowledge of Islam and particularly the truth about Muhammad’s mental disorders spread and people understand that he was not a prophet, but a mentally sick man Islam will become history. Over a billion people will be liberated and a new era of peace will begin, and today’s Islamic countries will come out of their misery and will prosper. This is a reality that is going to happen. Have no doubt about it. Then I clarified to her that it is not me personaly that I am talking about. Thanks heaven, I do not have narcissistic delusions of grandiosity. I said “me” in the manner of joke and to hear that lovely Italian exclamation. The truth is that it will be all of us apostates who understand Islam and spread that understanding that will write the next century. WE are going to write the future. It looks like you are not going to be part it Donald. You are not even in the present. You are stuck in the past incrusted in the seventh century.
One erudite Muslim who wrote a very polite letter asking for debate, after reading the book wrote to say I am the most dangerous person on earth, more dangerous than Christians or any enemy of Islam that has ever lived. He did not try to refute me, as you so pretentiously think you can, but only to convery his shock. Of course I am not a threat to any person, but sure I am to Islam. That man’s faith was shaken, just as the faiths of hundreds of Muslims who read my book is shaken. These people will one day come to their senses and will realize that they are only fooling themselves. That possibility is slim in your case, because your head is stuck deep in the sand. There is no one blinder than the one who does not want to see and no one deafer than the one who does not want to hear.
My counter rebuttal
There isn’t anything really factual here Ali Sina. I don’t know why you resort to posting testimonies from others who read your book. What does this prove? For every testimonial you post, I could counter it with a testimonial from one who converted to Islam. What does this prove? It proves nothing! I understand that you are puzzled when it comes to me Ali Sina. You boast that every Muslim who read your book has not responded; so I take it I am the first? This is another LIE! I have come across many Muslims, who read your book, and responded to your challenge. All one has to do to see some of this is go to Youtube and type in ‘Ali Sina’. You will see many videos, made by Muslims, who debate your facts. Please Ali Sina, get off your ‘high throne’ and come back to reality. I have noticed throughout this debate, and other works of yours, that you may be suffering from NPD yourself! (hint at future article to come)
As for your earlier claim, the pegan arabs made the most revenue and created the most bonds of business during the great fair, when all the Bedouins would come to makkah, with their idols, which were to be placed in the custody of the Kabbah. Muhammad’s message of one god threatened this. Also, it was not just monotheism, it was the message of equality that scared the Makkans too. They were terrified at the message of freeing slaves, and slaves being equal to their masters along with the poor and orphans. This was threatening because it would eliminate the tribal superiority of those who had power through birth right.
Ali Sina
From what we read so far of your pearls of wisdom it is clear that you are not exceptionally smart. In fact you are quite naïve. I am sure there is nothing wrong with your intelligence, it’s just that you’ve so convinced yourself of a lie that you don’t look to see what others say. Instead of reading my book to try to refute it, you went on looking from which university Dr. Vaknin got his degree. How pathetic!
Just to set the records straight, Dr. Vaknin studied in 1982-3 in ENCINO, California called “Pacific.” (At that time it was replete with a campus with students, faculty, exams, and all the paraphernalia of higher education.) Later, to distinguish itself from other Pacific universities, it added the moniker “Western”. Sometime during the 1990s it merged out of existence.
You dug a malicious rumor about Dr. Vaknin that claimed he obtained his degree from a diploma mill. This is very old hat and completely false. The “info” is maliciously (and libelously) was spread by Wikipedians, the anonymous editors of Wikipedia, a group with no face and responsibility. Anyone can become an editor of Wikipedia and many do for a vendetta to spread rumors about people they have an ax to grind against or to promote themselves.
This character assassination of Dr. Vaknin on Wikipedia was no different from what Muslims write about me. It was completely baseless, malicious and cowardly. Who stands behind anything written on Wikipedia? It’s foolish to rely on this open site to find facts about people. You cling to any straw because you are desperate.
See this page on this subject. http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/wikipedia.html
Responding to this malicious libel, Dr. Vaknin wrote, “I have never been to Hawaii, let alone studied there. The diploma mill that used to call itself “Pacific Western University” (and then was litigated into changing its name) was based in Honolulu. To obtain my Ph.D., I had to submit a dissertation and defend it. That I have a bona fide doctorate is very easy to prove: it is available from the Library of Congress and from UMI.”
You can find Dr. Vaknin’s doctoral dissertation in the Library of Congress Catalog by
1. Click on this link http://catalog.loc.gov/
2. Click on Basic Search 3. Select Author/Creator Browse from the Search Type pull-down menu 4. Type “Vaknin” in the Search Text dialog box. Vaknin’s books (and doctoral dissertation) are listed under Vaknin, Sam; Vaknin, Sem; and Vaknin, Samuel. To view his books click on “Vaknin, Samuel” and “Vaknin, Sem” and select the Full Record tabs. To view his doctoral dissertation, click on “Vaknin, Sam”. You will be forwarded to a page titled: Time Asymmetry Revisited Select the Full Record tab. Vaknin’s dissertation is also included in UMI’s databases (University Microfilms International). Click here to read some correspondence which may be of interest in this respect.
Just like any other argument you presented, it is clear that you don’t do your research before opening your big mouth and making a fool of yourself. Instead of paying attention to what you read, even to refute it in a rational way, you went on ‘source hunting’ and when you found one of the hadiths in my book is referenced from a Sufi site, you berated that hadith without bothering to see that the same haith is quoted in several Sunni sites. You are not a scholar Donald. All you have done so far is pooh-pooh my sources without doing proper research. What a pathetic way of thinking? What a waste of intelligence? You are a waste of my time and I get a distinct pleasure humiliating you publicly. I have no sympathy for people who willingly refuse to use their brains and are deliberately malicious. If you were stupid I would be a lot more sympathetic to you. Since you are not stupid, but only arrogant and delusional, unwilling to use your brain, you don’t get my sympathy.
My counter rebuttal
If you visit Sam Vaknin’s official webpage, you can see that he makes the following claim about himself:
‘I am not a mental health professional though I am certified in psychological counseling techniques by Brainbench’.
As I pointed out in my debate, Brainbench is nothing more than a testing facility. It is not a school, nor does it offer ‘certified’ graduate programs (visit the site at http://www.brainbench.com )
Secondly, if you visit Sam Vaknin’s webpage, you can view his resume or CV (click http://samvak.tripod.com/cv.html to view his CV, written by him). If you look at his education he states the following:
‘Ph.D. in Philosophy (major: Philosophy of Physics) – Pacific Western University, California, USA.’
You can visit this university; it does have a website, at http://www.pacificwesternuniversity.com/. You can clearly see that this is a distance learning University. You can read about this university at http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=291&mn=61576&pt=msg&mid=6767645 if you don’t like Wikipedia. You can read about Sam Vaknin and others who got their degrees from this university. You can also read about the controversy surrounding this university here. Other websites include:
http://forums.degreeinfo.comindex.php/t-4860.html
http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/Education_Degree_Scams_Unaccreddit...
How many websites do I have to post, that ALL state that the university Sam Vaknin got his Ph.D from is a fraud? There are hundreds of sits that expose this university as being unaccredited and fraudulent. Are all these writers wrong Ali Sina? I think NOT sir! Even if we were to take Sam Vaknin’s Ph.D seriously, one must point out that his Ph.D is in philosophy of physics; a degree that has NOTHING to do with the study psychiatry or mental disorders! Like I said before, until you can prove these accusations as being false, SAM VAKNIN is NOT a validated source of information regarding NPD!
Ali Sina
The Meccans did not offer wealth to Muhammad to make him desist preaching. This ludicrous claim can only be believed by the gullible Muslims whose brains, as Almost Aisha said, are at “peace.” What kind of rational people offer wealth to a prophet pretender to make him stop lying? Has such thing ever happened in the history of mankind? There is not a day that a crackpot does not claim to be a prophet, the messiah, the messenger of God, and what not; and there is no dearth of fools to believe in them. Can you show one single instance where one of these pretenders has been approached with money to stop preaching? How much stupidity is enough Donald?
Why would the Meccans want to offer money to a man they thought to be mad and majoon (jinn possessed)? They just laughed at him. They were understandably offended when he started maligning their sacred beliefs. What would Muslims do when someone slights Muhammad? Despite that the Meccans did not act violently. They boycotted him and his insolent followers, but never harmed them physically. These beguiled converts were the Meccan’s foolish sons and daughters. The Meccans did not want to harm them. I have explained this in my book. You did not read it. I showed that all those claims of persecution of Muslims are lies. The Meccans could easily get rid of Muhammad, but they didn’t. They were tolerant just as the world is today tolerant towards Muslims, whereas Muslims engage in terrism while at the same time they cry victim.
That story you are telling me is a lie. It is not in the hadith or in the Quran. It is a later day forgery. Even if it were in the hadith or in the Quran it would still be a lie because it goes against commonsense. People do not offer money and wealth to those whom they believe are liars. Meccans believed Muhammad was a liar. Why would they want to prize a liar with wealth when they could easily kill him if they wanted to silence him? It takes either a Muslim or an fool to believe in this balderdash. How many lies can you gobble before you explode?
Now, as an interesting note, I did receive an offer of $1,000,000 dollars to shut down faithfreedom.org. I got this email last year and I shared it with my fellow editors. I tried to engage that Muslim to elaborate further, unfortunately he did not respond. I asked him why does he want to give away so much money when all he has to do is refute one of my charges for me to shut down the site. His response was. “You are doing a lot of harm.” That is all I got from him and he did not reply my subsequent probing.
Why a Muslim would want to silence me with money? It’s because they cannot kill me. If they could get rid of me in a more economical way why would they want to prize someone whom they hate? It makes no sense. It is also likely that this person was not really serious, but was testing me. Well, one million dollars does not attract me. Tempt me with something of eight digits and I may think about it. (Just kidding)
Tommorrow Part 4 of this debate will be published. Please come back. You’re not going to be disapointed. It is the best part of this series yet. If you are pregnant, don’t come back tomorrow. Your child may be born prematurely.
My counter rebuttal
The reference I gave you and readers to read about this story; where did it come from Ali Sina? It came from a NON MUSLIM source! So what do the non Muslims have to gain about fabricating a story like this? If I quoted a Muslim webpage as the reference, you may have a point, but the fact that Non Muslim historians say the story is truthful, shows us that this incident did indeed happen. I want the readers of this debate to notice how Ali Sina approaches my evidence here. Instead of answering to it, he simply labels it a fabrication. This should show us that Ali Sina has No response for this story. He has no response because it proves Muhammad did not have NPD. Be a man and admit it Ali Sina! Don’t be a coward and hide behind the old ‘well if I can’t answer it, I will call it a lie’ defense. This is No defense, this is a weak and pathetic ‘cop out’ and well you know it.
Why is it that in the course
Why is it that in the course of hating Islam, Muhammad, ans Allah, and Moses, yahweh, jesus, Parents, virgins. (Iam not sure if there is something you don’t hate, you hate-filled little....!!!!). why is it that you Preach Freedom while you don’t respect people’s freedom. if a jew want to believe in Yahweh that is his business as it is muslim’s business to adore Allah. that is freedom. Look in the book and you’ll find the exact description of YOU: HYPOCRITES: They say what they do not do!!! And yeah Becky, you’re DAMN right !!!: “”"”Sweetie, history is always written by the winner and the winner is rarely honest or compassionate to others. “”"” Today the winner is the U.S, it’s out of wedlock Child (you know who it is), and the hoard of capitalist savages using children of pakistan and thailand, poor Girls of eastern europe, and western technology to make more money in the name of Modernity. BUT U KNOW WHAT, the more your hate and effort intensifies the more we know that the inevitable is getting close to you so Cheer up good people of this earth, no matter what religion you are, christian, jewish, muslim or whatever: PEACE IS COMING.
WELL BY READING THE COMMNENTS
WELL BY READING THE COMMNENTS OF ALL OF YOU I REACHED TO THE DECISION THAT MR SINA IS THE LIER I MYSELF THE NON MUSLIM BUT MR DONALD AND MR FF.COM HAVE SATISFIED ME NOW IAM CONVERTING TO ISLAM SOON BY REFERING TO THE FAMOUSE SCHOLAR OF TODAYS WORLD.THANKS
FF.COM AND DONALD FOR MAKING ME REALIZE THAT ISLAM IS THE BEST RELEGION
DOES ANYONE HAS NUMBER FOR
DOES ANYONE HAS NUMBER FOR HEAVEN OR ADDRESS,I THINK ALL MUSLIMS HAVE...PLZ EMAIL ME ,ALSO PLZ TELL ME HOW MUCH MONEY I NEED TO CARRY WHEN I AM DIE,OR R THE LADIES FREE IN SO CALL HEAVEN BY MUSLIMS,I HAVE Erectile Dysfunction ,DOES DAT MATTERS WILL ALLAH REJECT,DID THIS HEAVEN EXISTED AFTER MUHAMMAD RO WAS THERE EARLIER ,IFNOT DAT MEANS IF HEAVEN EXISTED AFTER MUHAMMAD CONFIRMED THAT MEANS ALL MUSLIMS PRIOR TO MUMAD DIDNT GO TO HEAVEN ,MUST B STILL ALIVE IN PAKISTAN OR AFGHANISTAN..PLZ PLZ LET ME KNOW
im indonesian,,, and
im indonesian,,, and HALELUYAH i BELONG TO JESUS...
u know i sick of adzan evrytime i heard that!! my neighboorhood become a JESUS, when they realize something uncertainty inside quran.
im gonna use indonesian language and quote ike this "tempatkan muhammad ditempat yang tinggi dan mulia, seperti yang kau janjikan" (you can use google translate)
do you know what its means, their is not certainty that muhammad are going to heaven!!
and my neighboorhood telling to me if muhammad dont have certainty and just have promised from allah, what about us just following muhammad".... he said to me like that.