Black-Tequilla vs the FFI Staff

Printer-friendly versionSend to friendPDF versionOn 5/2/06, Back-Tequila@xxxxxx wrote: To the author of the website, I could not read through the whole page as I got to disgusted. From my point of view your page is nothing but a propaganda page. You offer the visitor to "learn about Islam" and what you do subsequently is listing up everything which can be used against Islam, that is pictures of stoning, hanging etc. [color=purple] Did you find any errors or lies? What FFI says against Islam is not only hangings and stonings? How many people have been hanged and stoned under sharia? Many muslims in the west including Germany want to introduce Sharia to the west. Do you not think people should know what Islam is? Many muslim countries that had secular laws introduced Sharia in the last decade and put in stonings and hangins into the law. Is there any picture or any statement at FFI that is not true? If the muslims do it then you as a muslim should look at it. Did you ever stand up and say that what was being done in the name of Islam was wrong?[/color] This method of iluminating only the negative aspects of this religion is a propaganda method. Of course there are negative aspects in the islamic worl but through your page you present it as if all 1,5billion muslims were pedophiles murderers and violators. [color=purple] That is not true. That is your excuse. AliSina makes it quite clear that he considers an overwhelming majority of muslims totally ignorant of islam. Most muslims have never read the quran, let alone the hadeeth or any other material from the scholars of islam. The site presents nothing against the average muslim, but it does present material exposing the true face of Islam.[/color] It is as if I would publish a page headlining it "learn about the USA" and subsequently only list up pictures of US-pedophiles, members of the Ku-Klux-Clan or whatever mad persons. With your page you only contribute to spread hatred and fear among people who are not informed about Islam. [color=purple] Are you informed of Islam? Why don't you accept the challange by AliSina and show that he is wrong? Show everyone at FFI that you know Islam and Ali does not. You are the one who is incapable of looking at Islam square on. You avert your eyes at the butchery of Islam.[/color] I think youre not aware the dangerous consequences of such a page. You keep on charging Islamic radicals, you compare them to Nazis. In fact I believe that with your page you intend to spread hatred, contempt and fear among the people against the Islamic relgion and thus you remind me of those Islamic radicals you accuse who stir up the muslims against the West and you remind me of the Nazis as one method of propaganda among the Nazis was to spread cartoons in which Jews violate or eat small little German children and rob and murder. [color=purple] That is a false analogy. Look at the conflicts around the globe and see in how many of those conflicts is Islam involved. Why? Instead of generalizing and making false analogies why don't you show exactly which writings are inciting hate against people. The whole purpose of the site is to reach out to the muslims and lead them out of Islam. Islam is an evil cult, and muslims do need to be freed of it. FFI is by ex-muslims to show the average muslim the true face of Islam.[/color] The attacks of terrorists all over the world and the murderous results of WWII show what such a propaganda can lead to. I wish you to get to know some muslims or to visit a muslim country so that you will find out that the majority of muslims is very moderate, that you can see also the positive features of that religion and possibly alter your attitude and at least present Islam in a less biased way. Best wishes and compassion, from a member of the majority of moderate muslims(Germany) [color=purple] AliSina is an ex-muslim. I have travelled through most of the muslim world. I have many muslim relative and muslim friends. Who says that a majority of muslims are not very moderate. Has AliSina ever said that? Why do you not tell about the positive features of that religion? Now do not confuse between religion and culture. So do not tell about the culture but about the religion. What positive features of the religion do you see? Muhammed, the founder of the religion was a muderer, a rapist, a pedophile, a butcher among other things and what is it in his religion that is good; please tell me. Doubtless[/color] On 5/3/06, Back-Tequila@xxxxxx wrote: To the author of the webpage, First of all I want to thank you for your response. However, I must object to it severely. In my letter I charged you of propaganda against Islam, of focussing on the negative aspects of this religion and disguising everything positive about it. I tried to show you the risks of such propaganda, namely that it stirs the people up against the 1,5 billion Muslims around the globe. You responded that you only want the people to know the "Truth about Islam" and that the majority of the Muslims around the globe are indeed moderate, but that they do not follow Islam rigorously, you charge me of not knowing about this religion either, that Islam is indeed a mischievous religion. [color=purple] Dear Black-Tequila, The purpose of the web site is to have a conversation with muslims like yourself. So let us begin this journey to find out whether you know Islam or not, and whether we are creating hatred towards the muslims or not. I can tell you categorically that we have no desire and no intention of creating hatred towards any individual at all let alone a group of people.[/color] And I must admit that I like most Muslims have never read the Koran, nor am I very concerned with religious issues. Most Muslims are not theologians nor do they care about theological stuff. But does that mean that I, that the majority of the Muslims around the globe are not "true" or "real" Muslims, that we don't count? [color=purple] You ask the right question in response to your above statements. What is "True Islam"?[/color] What do you mean by "True Islam" what shall that be? That's the way the radicals speak about their religious orientation. For me "Real Islam" is the Islam of the reality. And what Islam is in reality does not depend on theological stuff, some hadithes or suras in the Koran, nor is it determined by the radicals. It is the Islam like it is lived by the moderate majority of the Muslims, we determine Islam, we are Islam. [color=purple] However the answer you give is incomplete and incorrect. Islam is more than the culture that muslims live. I do not worry about the theology so much at all and the fine points of the theology can be ignored and it would not make any difference to muslims or Islam. So What is "True Islam"? To be a muslim one has to say the Shahada: witness that there is no god but Allah and muhammed is rasool allah. That is central to "True Islam". That is the reason why there was very strong reaction in the muslim world to the cartoons of muhammed. Without Muhammed there is no Islam as it is practised by muslims. Do you agree? Now quran says that Muhammed was an exemplary character. He is referred to as Rahmat-al-alimeen. Muslims tell us that he was the loved of allah and the favorite of allah. Sufis tell us that allah created the 'nur' of muhammed before he created anything else. The sunnah of muhammed is the basis of all the jurisprudence schools of islam to this day. Pious muslims attempt to emulate muhammed to as much detail as possible. Many muslims have called muhammed as the "walking quran". So "True Islam" is given by the sunnah of muhammed. It is not the theology of Islam. It is not the discussion of the muftis or the scholars of islam, but the "sunnah of muhammed". Anything that muhammed did is moral and correct by definition. That is the "true islam".[/color] If it was otherwise I believe there were not be more than 1 million muslims around the world, and according to your logic that a Muslim is only the person who follows every detail of the Koran, accordingly there would be not more than 1 million Catholics or Hindus or Buddhists or Jews around the globe as I believe that nearly nobody follows all aspects of his/her religion. This logic is absurd. [color=purple] No, AliSina has never asserted that a Muslim is only the person who follows every detail of the Koran. That is impossible and you are correct that there would not be many muslims in the world if that was the case.[/color] For me [and I believe many Muslims share that view] Islam are not the details outlined in Koran, for me Islam are the memories of the numerous Ramadans, this feeling of pride, of community, of care which struck me when we, my family and Muslim friends sat together at the table and finished our fasting. It's also the memory of Mecca. I've been there when I was a young boy together with my family. We were there in Ramadan. At prayer my family, I and hundreds of thousands of other Muslims from the most diverse countries, Blacks, Chinese, Pakistanis and Europeans, poor and rich people, men and women [yes, they pray together there], old and young were all praying side by side, all wearing the plainest white cloth in order to disguise all differences. And afterwards we would share all together a meal supported by the government. I can't find the words to express what I felt then, but you will ascertain now that Islam can undoubtedly also have some positive features. [color=purple] That is the culture of Islam. And now do you notice some thing in your description? Who is missing? That is the core problem that is causing all the bloodshed and problems in the world right now. And that problem is the one that muhammed started 1450 years ago. He divided the world permanently into those who were clean enough to go to mecca and those who are not allowed to. The kaffirs are filthy, najis, so najis that Allah, their creator bans them from even setting foot in his "house". Kaffirs are punished if they are found in the city of mecca. This permanent division of humanity is the "true Islam". Yes your memories are very pleasent and nice, but what do you think are the memories of a kaffir child growing up in a muslim country? What do you think are the memories of a copt child growing in Egypt and having to hear how his faith is distorted and how the copts have decided not to hear the word of allah? How do you think a hindu child growing up in Pakistan feels having to listen all the time that his ancestors were filthy idol worshippers and they are najis because they do worship allah? And if anyone dares to question any action of muhammed then he is to be put to death as Osama bin Laden reminded the ummah just last week. Kaffirs are not humans, Tequila, and that is the true islam. The permanent division of mankind is the true Islam. Yes you will tell me that you have kaffir friends in germany, and yes you will tell me that you socialise with them, and so on. But have you ever thought why are your kaffir friends not good enough for allah to allow them in his house even for a visit? Have you ever objected to that to anyone? How would you feel if you were told that you are filthy and you should not be allowed in their cities? Chinese and dogs not allowed was and the british learnt from that. Have the muslims EVER learnt from dogs and non-muslims not allowed?[/color] In general, Islam has always been a feeling of care and love my family my Islamic community provided me with. Islam is my family, my community, my identity and many Muslims feel the same. [color=purple] True but now you live in a globalised community. You do not live in a muslim only community. Are the kaffirs part of your community, part of your identity? Are you willing to fight for the rights of the kaffirs that have given you a place to be in the west? Are you going to fight for that "dogs and kaffirs not allowed" is wrong and should be changed?[/color] And now you come and present pictures of murdering and rioting and violating Muslims. Of Muslim paedophiles and pictures of hanging and stoning. I do not doubt that anything written on your page is false and fake, possibly it's all true, [color=purple] Not possibly it is all true. It is all true.[/color] I don't care, but it's not the complete truth. There also very positive suras in the Koran and hadeethes, I looked some up [you'll find them below] and there are also very moderate clerics who base their moderate views on Islam [link also below]. However, from my point of view the question, whether what is presented on your page is true or not is absolutely unimportant. What matters are the effects of your page. [color=purple] Sure there are good verses in the Quran, because quran is a misunderstood mixture of the earlier religions of that era and area. It is the errors and the sunnah of muhammed that is the real problem of Islam. You are most welcome to join the FFI forum and tell the ex-muslims there and the kaffirs there what the good things are in the Quran for them. There are good things in the Quran for the muslims but what for the kaffirs? And there are about 4 to 5 kaffirs for every muslim in the world at present. What does the quran offer them in this global village of ours?[/color] And now please tell me: What do you think are you going to achieve with this page? Do you seriously think the 1,5 billion Muslims around the globe are going to abandon their belief due to your page? [color=purple] Yes. They are and they will. As soo as they see the truth about Islam and start thinking they abandon Islam.[/color] Then you must be very naïve. Through this aggressive page you achieve nothing but offend ALL Muslim visitors and possibly even produce a feeling of hatred and contempt towards the West among some of them. [color=purple] Why the west? You were just telling me that in mecca you had muslims from the west and the marvellous egalitarian feelings you had, and now suddently it is the west? You do mean the kaffirs, the non-muslims, do you not? And that dear tequila, is the "true islam".[/color] And then you tell me that you didn't intend to defame the Muslim moderates and argue that you pointed out that the majority of Muslims is moderate on your webpage. But pointing out that fact in a subordinate clause on the one hand and spamming the visitor of your page with shocking pictures of Muslims on the other hand will produce nothing but hatred, fear and contempt towards ALL Muslims to the uninformed visitor. [color=purple] Why contempt for muslims? Contempt for Islam: yes. But compassion for the victims of Islam and muslims are the chief victims of Islam. Look at yourself and what you have written. You are a good man at heart, but there is a deep bias built into you against your non-muslim friends and collegues and you are ready to deny them rights all becuase of the teaching of the true Islam.[/color] It is ridiculous to believe that the majority of the visitors will distinguish between this moderate majority and the tiny group of radicals who you regard as the "true Muslims". So now tell me which bridges are you building with that page? You're offending the Muslims and stirring up the people in the West against Islam. You're not building bridges but deepening the ditches that already exist. You only generate aggression both in the West and in the East through your page. And as I already pointed out the results of such mischievous progress can be very dangerous for all. [color=purple] Telling the truth is neither bad for the kaffirs nor for the muslims. Unlike you, AliSina has great faith in humanity and the average human and the basic goodness of mankind. If I can get through to you and make you see the deeply imbedded discrimination and hatred for the non-muslim that you have displayed without even being aware of it, then telling the truth was useful and a good frist step.[/color] I believe that your intention is to spread liberal ideas among Muslims, to build "bridges", but through your page you achieve the opposite. If you really want to win the Muslims for liberal ideas the only way is to derive these ideas from Islam itself, like the cleric does it in the link below. BTW: I would be very pleased if you could publish both comments together with the quotations and the link on your page. In hope for some last rests of pragmatism, A moderate Muslim [color=purple] I think you misread AliSina's intentions. It is not to merely spread "liberal ideas" among muslims but it is to get them out of Islam. Islam is not a religion. It is not good for the muslims and it is not good for the kaffirs. It is not good for humanity. It is high time that Islam is discarded on the dustbin of history. I will pass your request for the posting of the following to AliSina and he can decide.[/color] Some nice quotations: Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. Final Sermon of Muhammad [color=purple] The Sermon is to "muslims" and kaffirs are not included among the human beings. Go ahead and tell me that I am wrong. If I am then tell me why are your kaffir brother not allowed to set foot in the city of mecca? You see the lies of Islam. How conveniently you lie about human beings including the majority of the people living around you and in whose country you are living and making a living and your are afforded all the rights in the eyes of their laws?[/color] Do not turn away a poor man...even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you...God will bring you near Him on the Day of Resurrection. Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376 [color=purple]Again the poor is a muslims. Zakat is for the poor is it not? Can a penny of the zakat collected be spend on a kaffir poor? The answer my dear tequila is NO.[/color] Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to people. Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, #473 Surah 2:267 - "O you who have attained to faith! Spend on others out of the good things which you may have acquired, and out of that which We bring forth for you from the earth; and choose not for your spending the bad things which you yourselves would not accept without averting your eyes in disdain...Satan threatens you with the prospect of poverty and bids you to be niggardly, whereas God promises you His forgiveness and bounty…If you do deeds of charity openly, it is well; but if you bestow it upon the needy in secret, it will be even better for you, and it will atone for some of your bad deeds…And whatever good you may spend on others is for your own good, provided that you spend only out of a longing for God's countenance; for whatever good you may spend will be repaid unto you in full, and you shall not be wronged…Those who spend their possessions [for the sake of God] by night and by day, secretly and openly, shall have their reward with their Sustainer, and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve." Moderate Cleric: [url=http://www.memritv.org/View.asp?P1=1112]Memri TV[/url] [color=purple] I looked up Muhammed's last sermon just for you so you can see the insidious lying of even the moderate cleric so the words may sound good to the kaffirs. Why the lies? Why not speak the truth. Compare: [url=http://www.fordham.edu/Halsall/source/muhm-sermon.html]Fordam.edu[/url] "O People, listen to me in earnest, whorship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. [b]You know that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim.[/b] YOU ARE ALL EQUAL. NOBODY HAS SUPERIORITY OVER OTHER EXCEPT BY PIETY AND GOOD ACTION." or another translation: [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/lastsermon.html]MSA[/url] [b]Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.[/b] Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. I have even consulted the arabic version and the moderate cleric is just simply deceiving. Equality is clearly reserved for muslims and not humans. Now ask yourself, why does the cleric feel the need to change the message of Muhammed? Muhammed never ever said muslims and kaffirs are equal, but here your moderate cleric is implying that by wording it just right. This is the standard lying and deception of Islam. Ex-muslims can see through this type of chicanary effortlessly. It is only the stupid and good hearted kaffirs who fall for it. Do you want to lie to the people that you live among? Do you want to lie to your kaffir friends and collegues? And now let me go all the way back to the beginning and talk about the "true Islam". Anything that muhammed did is moral and correct by definition. That is the "true islam". And muhammed was not a nice human being. That is the central challange that AliSina offers the muslim. http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm "The challenge is: Disprove my accusations against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being: a rapist a pedophile (had sex with a child) an assassin a mass murderer a ruthless torturer a terrorist (I have been made victorious through terror) a lecher a misogynist a narcissist a thief and plunderer a cult leader a mentally deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies)." [/color] And that is the real problem of "True Islam". Because muhammed was a vile human, that inhumanity of his has become coded into the Sharia of Islam, and moderate clerics and muslims like yourself are easily silenced by the more hardline muslims because you cannot stand up and say that what muhammed did was evil and hence his sunnah cannot be the role model for the humans today. The terrorists are merely following the sunnah of muhammed with zeal. Because muhammed was a pedophile and had married a six year old that for centuries and even at present muslims consider it perfectly legitimate to marry pre-teen girls. Do you understand how many millions of little girls lives have been ruined because no muslim could stand up and say that muhammed did wrong in marrying a child. Instead we get excuses and reasons that sound absurd trying to justify that act or even denying that it ever happened and as a consequence admitting that Sharia of Islam and the traditions of Islam have been based upon errors. How many clerics and muftis, and imams, and pirs of today have pre-teen wives? That is why Imam Khomenii could write that it was acceptable to Allah to have sex with a six month old baby girl. All because of what the muslims consider to be the Sunnah of Muhammed. Open your eyes, dear Tequila, and see the true Islam for what it is, and the pleasent memories of family outings. Do you think the slave owners did not have pleasent memories? Do you think white supremecists did not have pleasent memories? But the moral among them realised the inhumanity of their beliefs towards their fellow humans and they discarded those beliefs. Are you willing to see the inhumanity that islam preaches for the non-muslims? This is what Ali Sina says on the front page of his web site: "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." Abraham Lincoln Thereupon I concluded: As I would not be a dhimmi, so I would not be a Muslim. Ali Sina Are you willing to be a dhimmi among the muslims? Doubtless