An Apostate Housewife
Submitted by Rayhanah on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 06:00
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PDF versionDear Dr. Sina,
I am very much grateful for all of your efforts to establish and maintain FFI. Without it, my eyes would have never been opened and I could never have seen the true face of Islam.
I was born Muslimah. Now in my early forties, I am a mother of two wonderful boys.
I am living in a Muslim country. 99.9% of my countrymen do not understand Arabic. They blindly follow what the mullahs tell them. With the exception of a few, almost everyone here is "moderate" Muslim.
For sure, I was one of those who took to heart every word of the mullahs. I was a member of numerous majlas. Almost everyday, I attended a majlis where a mullah taught us what the Quran (did not) says. After he finished speaking, there was a Q&A session and I used to ask him many questions. Sometimes I was satisfied with the answers, but sometimes I wasn’t.
When I first came to your website I was totally shocked. Rather than stop reading your articles, I was more curious.
While I continued reading, I discussed with my husband and my Muslim friends, and ask questions from some gurus. With my husband, of course, it was a frankly and straight discussions while with my friends and mullahs I had to ask my questions in a disguised way. However, this did not prevent one of my friends to question whether I am still a Muslimah. After that I stopped asking her more questions :D
Maybe I am an apostate now because I stop my 5 times praying and plan not to fast this year.
I regret the huge amount of money we spent for our Hajj and Omra. It would have been better if I had taken my boys to Disneyland or Europe.
Muhammad needed Islam as a tool to improve his own life. If he could see Muslims today from his grave, he would probably laugh hysterically for taking his lies so seriously.
The bloody fights and struggle for power between Muhammad’s closest companions, which happened right after his death, proves that Islam is false.
If Islam is a religion of peace, why its history is not peaceful? Its founder used the sword instead of language and so did his companions. He also taught his follower to conquer, subdue and dominate and use violence and cruelty to do so.
My husband is a very kind man, both to his own family as well as to others. He is well educated. He is a 'devout' Muslim. Besides the compulsory prayers he performs several other extra/sunnah prayers, everyday. When I showed him the ayah about crucifying and cutting the kafirs’ fingers, I could see the expression of shock in his face. Then I bombarded him with many others ayahs, hadiths and your articles.
He began to deny everything and suddenly became a fierce advocate of Islam and Muhammad.
He is questioning me about life after death, the existence of God, what will I feel when I am in dying state, etc. He also said that there must be a God to make the universe and give it order and harmony.
I answered him (plagiarizing you :p) that we all human are like a group of ants living in a garden. The gardener does not care whether the ants worship him not and will not ask them to worship him. He would not send an ant messenger to warn them and will not burn them if they do not worship him.
My husband’s favourite argument is the Pascal Wager. Honestly, I do not really understand the Pascal Wager. That is why I still worry how if God (not Muhammad's Allah) exists. I do not want to be burnt eternally in hell. But which God should I believe?
Now my paranoia begins. I worry when I knew that tomorrow is my son's turn to practice swimming in school. I worry if tomorrow they will do field trip somewhere. Will they come home safely? I even wanted to sit waiting behind the door of my youngest son class. (Un) Fortunately he did not allow me:D I am scared to death if something or someone harms them. When I still believed in Allah, I always pray for their safety. I asked Allah to 'guard' them as Quran says Allah is the best protector. Then I lived my own life happily waiting for them to come home. Now I know that when I prayed for their safety, no Allah heard me. Those 'happy' old days have forever changed.
My husband knows will never pray again. He believes good or bad luck are from Allah alone. If we did good deeds then Allah will reward us. I am afraid if something bad happen to us he will blame me, because of my neglects to Allah. Let us say, something like our business downturn, our water pipes break, our kid get flu, etc, etc. I will be the only scapegoat for everything that may go wrong. What if he starts believing that apostates are najis. I worry this will badly effect our marriage relationship.
Anyhow, I can and am ready to take all the risks. If this should be, let it be. Of course I will do all efforts to keep my marriage well for the sake of my children. If I have to do 'kafir taqiyya' then I will do. I must think a good answer for my hubby why I cancelled my apostasy :).
Like all mothers everywhere, I want the best for my kids. I want my sons to escape Islam. At least let them know the truth about Islam.
They are studying in one of the best private schools in the city. They follow a western curriculum. But still it is an Islamic school.
I encourage them to study English and Science. I searched my book shelves to find the “Science for Kids” sets and put them in front, easy to reach, replacing “Islam for Kids” books. I do not ask them to recite dua before sleeping anymore (their father does). Instead, my bed stories are about the Sun, the Moon, planets, asteroids, how a star formed, water cycle, etc.
I want them to study in the west now. I hope, when the time comes, I will have enough money to send them to study abroad.
I want them to seek the opportunity to work and stay in the west, forever. This is something totally different from what I thought before. I never liked the west. I preferred to visit Muslim countries. Even at that time I used to say to myself, if I have to live in other country, I will come to my home country for Ramadan and Eid, because for me no place in earth beats Ramadan atmosphere better than in my home country.
Now, Ramadan is alien to me.
I do not know whether my intention to send my kids to the west will be approved by my husband if he knows my real reasons.
Btw, I am not a computer savvy person. Can people trace me if I send mail like this? How can I be totally anonymous?
I feel better now because I can talk to someone. It lifted the burden in my chest.
Dr. Sina, thank you for your attention and excellent works.
Best Regards,
****************
Dear Rayhanah (I just give you this name because I don’t know your real name and don’t want to know it)
I am very glad to read your testimony. More and more people are seeing the truth and are leaving Islam.
Personally, I cannot believe in God. However, I am not against the belief in God. I actually think some people benefit from it.
I found myself preaching God to a guy last month. Later that night I found humor in what I did and has a few chuckles, but I think I did the right thing. This man’s life was a mess. He was a loud obnoxious person with anger problem who fought with everyone, had alcohol problem and was about to lose the custody of his infant daughter and go to Jail for a threat he made to his girlfriend. (All that actually happened later.)
I went to talk to him. He thought I had come to evict him for not paying his rent and tried to avoid me. He had no money because he could not go to work as his truck was impounded when he was caught driving under the influence of alcohol. I reassured him I was not there to talk about money but about him. When his fear was subsided he opened up said no one loves him.
"Do you love yourself?" I asked.
"No I hate mysef." He responded. He told me he had suicidal thoughts.
I knew the source of his problem. When you don’t love yourself, you feel shame and to cover that shame you act violently, become anti social and dangerous. (That is basically the reason Muslims are violent.) I asked how can he expect others to love him when he does not love himself. He said he does not find himself worthy of love.
I asked whether he believed in God. He hesitated and said he was not sure.
I said; "Do you know that God loves you."
“I am a bad person.” He replied.
I said; "God loves you the way you are."
He started crying. Now, this is a tough guy, 6’4” tall and 240 lb muscular construction worker.
He told me about his loveless childhood and how his mother neglected him, etc. There was a little hurt child beneath that rough facade. I said; I don’t need to hear that, because I know it already. However, he has to learn to love himself, as without it, his problems will become worse.
“How can I love myself if I am worthless?” he asked.
“That is not true,” I said. “God created you. Didn't he? Would he create something worthless?”
“But why does he not answer my prayers?”
“Prayer is like rain. But if you want to harvest a crop, will rain alone be enough? You have to sow the seeds too. Our actions are the seeds. You have to do the right thing and plan your life. We reap what we sow. If you sow good deeds you’ll reap good fruits.“
I made him watch the video of one of the most wonderful beings on earth. The amazing, the beautiful Nick Vujicic - a precious gift to all humanity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtweZxNGk1Y
As he watched Nick, tears started rolling on his cheeks. He then said that he wants to do the right thing and change his life. Sadly, he did not stick to his words. A few days later he went back drinking, went to his girlfriend’s house, smashed a door, and tried to force himself in the house issuing more threats. He was caught by the police and is now in jail.
The point is that if the belief in God helps you improve your life, why not use it to your benefit? I do not share the fervor and the religious zeal of those atheists who aggressively promote atheism as if it will solve all the problems of the word. That is not true at all. Atheism does not make people any better, just as religions don’t. The most atrocious crimes of the 20th century were committed by atheists.
Religion is not the problem. The problem is bigotry. One can be a bigot whether one believes in God or not.
I do not want to take people’s God away from them. If you feel comfort in your faith in God, continue believing. It really does not matter whether you believe in God or not and if God exists, He would not give a hoot. If the belief in God is a “crutch,” and you need crutches, use it as a crutch. All you need to do is love yourself, love others and love the world. If God exists, He would not want anything different.
Actually when you love yourself, you will love others and the world too. The reverse is also true. If you are unable to love yourself, you can't love anyone or anything.
Love thyself, because, you are a unique gift of the univerese. This is the only religion that matters. You can practice this religion with the belief in God or without it.
I am not against any religion. I am against the evil and the hatred that Islam teaches. Sadly, Islam and hatred cannot be separated. Islam is hatred. The god of Muslims is a god of fear. The God of other religions is a god of love. This is a major difference that affects the psychology of the believers differently.
When your god is a god of love, you feel loved unconditionally and feel good about yourself. Your self esteem grows and you become a happy and positive person. When your god is a god of fear, like Allah, who will punish you in the most sadistic way for minor transgressions, like being curious and askiing "impertinent" questions that he cannot answer, you do not feel the unconditional love that, say, Christians feel. This makes you feel guilty and shamed. As the result you become angry and violent. We mask our shame with agression.
Since humans are fallible by nature, if you believe in a god that has unconditional love for you and will love you even when you sin, your self-esteem remains intact, even when you sin. But if your god is fearsome and his love is conditional, you never know whether he accepts you or not. So you live in constant fear and this uncertainty causes anxiety and shame, which makes you violent. In Islam only one thing guarantees salvation and that is martyrdom. So you become a terrorist in the hope that you will be accepted by God.
As you see, all beliefs are not the same. Some beliefs are truely demonic.Recently an Iraqi woman was caught who used shame to create terrorists. This woman arranged for Muslim girls to get raped and then she would tell them that the only way they could get rid of this shame and be forgiven by Allah is to become martyrs. She had thus created eighty women suicide bombers. Fifty of them had already committed suicide bombings. This is the result of the belief in a god of fear and shame. You cannot easily manipulate a Christian who believes in a god of love, a god that forgives every sin unconditionally in this way. Of course, Muhammad invented Allah to manipulate people, to make them submit and not to set them free.
Also there are some Christians who practice hate. Yesterday a Muslimah sent me the comment of a Pastor, who praised Islam and wrote, "There is no doubt that Islam is presently the most lively religion on the planet. Christianity is in a terrible state of decline, thanks to the perfidious Jew. I look forward to the day when Christianity and Islam will resume their previously cordial relations."
I wrote an email to this pastor showing him what Muhammad said about Christians and that Muslims never had cordial relations with Christians. But I became curious of this pastor because of his "perfidious Jews" remark. When I searched his name, I saw he is a White Supremacist. That is why he hates the Jews and loves Islam. People of hate agree with each other. Hitler also admired Muhammad and Islam. People of hate find themselves united in their hatred.Jesus did not preach hate. But if you have hate in your heart you can use even Christianity to incite hate. Just as this pastor who uses Christianity to justify his White racism, Jeremiyah Write the friend and pastor of Obama uses Christianity to justify Black racism.
You can find Muslims who are loving and good people. But that is not what Islam teaches.
Now, what to tell to your husband? Tell him that you respect his superior wisdom and knowledge. (You and I know that the belief that men are superior to women in anything is baloney. But he is a Muslim man and he likes to think that way.) Then tell him that because you are a woman and Muhammad said women have "short memory" and are "deficient in intelligence and faith," there are some doubts in you that you’d like him to remove them. He should agree. After all he likes to prove that he is superior. Then give him my book (which I am sending to you attached) and tell him to help you understand Islam by refuting the allegations that I have made against Muhammad. Appeal to his male pride and trick him to read the book. Once he reads the book he will leave Islam. I guaranty it. Make sure you read the book first.
I receive many emails from Muslims who assure me they can prove me wrong. I tell them that I will not only accept Islam but will also convert FFI site into a da’wa site. However, they have to read my book (all of it) and refute it. Most of them bite the bait and agree unaware that their lives is about to change. Then I send them the book. (Sorry, this offer is valid only for Muslims who hate me and will not buy my book. The rest of you have to buy it. I am a writer and this is my job. My articles are free but I want to be paid for my books.)
A large percentage of those who read my book leave Islam. The rest never write back. I believe they go in shock. A few also write to say they read the first few pages and will not read more because I am hopeless.
If you have a loved one who is trapped in Islam and you want to help him/her. Trick him to read Understanding Muhammad and I promise that by the time they finish it they will either leave Islam or will be so shaken with doubts that will not know what to believe.
For everything there is a time. The time for the death of Islam has come. Nothing can stop it from happening.
Wish you the best
Ali Sina
As usual, a great reply by
As usual, a great reply by Mr.Sina.
Personally I feel that Buddhism has much to offer on the spiritual front.
Buddhist meditation technique called Vipassana can help ex-muslims like Mrs.Rayhanah.
Ex-muslims should try exploring other religions and practice what is best for them. It is very difficult to remain an atheist throughtout one's life.
For the start, Yoga and Meditation are the first steps to be taken for freedom from the clutches of Islam.
Religion, spirituality and
Religion, spirituality and GOD are all independent concepts! They are unrelated and antethesis in islam.Islamic GOD allaha the pimp dalal has nothing but hatred and jealousy.He hates women, non moslems and intelligent moslems, rich people .he likes pious stupid ignorant moscums and criminals.he encourages rape pedophilia etc. The pimp allah is plain stupid, idiotic and a moron.
Moscums can not be trusted as allah teaches moscums to lie and cheat.
Dear Rayhanah All the best
Dear Rayhanah
All the best to you for your future. Since you are a mature person I really don't think that you need our advice. I also welcome you to the FFI forum, so that you can exchange your ideas with us and also help us free more Muslims from the clutches of Islam.
I'm always interested to know
I'm always interested to know which country people are from. I've traveled a lot and have probably been to your country. Can we know that?
Regarding your e-mails and computer activity. Yes people can trace you from the ISP number on e-mails you send out. But as long as you don't send e-mails to the wrong people you'll be safe. Sending e-mails to Ali Sina is fine but don't start sending anonymous e-mails to your local Imam! (at least not from your home computer)
Its not so easy to trace the
Its not so easy to trace the exact location of the computer by the IP address. To maintain complete anonymity on the internet, its best to use a proxy server. There is an article on FFI which has explained using proxy severs in detail.
I real loved Ali Sina reply.
I real loved Ali Sina reply. I'm still laughing as I type this. It was if I was reading Billy Graham or Pat Robertson.
I invite Ali Sina to a debate
I invite Ali Sina to a debate on God. I will convince him and the readers beyond any doubt that belief in a supernaturalistic religion is not just harmless myth, bit a very dangerous system. And belief in an omnipotent creator God is a pernicious one at that.
Should Ali Sina decide to accept my invitation we can have this written debate sometime in March(2nd week) as I am tied up with work this whole month.
The only solution to world problems is Atheism. humanity will never live in peace until the whole world come to accept reality as being the truth and come to a common view regarding how the world works, what our place in it is, where our priority must lie and what we need to do in order to improve human condition.
I know some atheists who think that religion might have served a purpose in our evolutionary past and that its time has come now. It is just silly to think this way. I disagree completely with that. Religion and belief in that ugly rotten slimey creature called God has never served us any purpose, never done us any good. Humanity would have reached far greater heights, probably evolved to unimaginable levels without the concept of god ever creeping into our brains.
Atheism is the future. Whether you like it or not. I believe that our future generations are my children and I instinctively feel I owe them a more just society than my own. One cannot look at oneself as a slave to a god and still practice thoughtful reasoning - they are mutually exclusive. Therefore gods must go, and this is my aim.
I shall fight till death until I kill every single god that ever existed.
May God be less.
@ raakshas Mate, have you
@ raakshas
Mate, have you ever tried Atheism. There is nothing more beautiful, uplifting and gratifying as being an Atheist. you just cannot compare any religion to atheism.
The reason behind it is that it just frees you up. There is no BS in Atheism, its just so pure. It's all about science and explains the world we live in and everything around us in such elegant manner no religion or other spiritual systems ever can. Go read the book "Unweaving the Rainbow" Google it. Also read "The God Delusion".
The most atrocious crimes of
Did they commit those crimes in the name of Atheism? How did their atheistic belief influence them in their crimes. Where does it say in the atheist manifesto that we can go about killing people?
From my own personal experience, and from my interaction with other atheists, I have found atheists to be highly intellectual, compassionate, caring, polite, respecful, self-respecting individuals.
Did you know that most atheists are vegetarian and do not approve of killing animals, even for food. You will be surprised to know that atheists are strongly encouraged to adapt a cruelty- free lifestyle, abstaining from meat, killing people, abolishing death penalty, toruture, child abuse etc.
"I invite Ali Sina to a
"I invite Ali Sina to a debate on God."
I'll let him decide whether or not he wants to do that, but this site is more about debating Moslims, not atheists. He already said that he doesn't care whether you believe in God or not. The important job is to dismantle Islam.
There is no need to get angry here with people who believe in God. Get angry against Islam. Direct your arguments at Muslims.
Meditation is good. Any type.
Meditation is good. Any type. And it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God.
Just be able to sit and stare blankly into space for some time and there you are!
Through meditation the mirror of the mind is cleaned. Of dust. And what is this dust? Dust is thought. Meditation makes your mind thoughtless. When the mind becomes thoughtless spectacular things can happen. The experience is unique to each one of us.
As humans, each one of us is entitled to this experience. It is our birth right!
Zen, Vipassana, or any good meditation technique - especially one given by a personal guru (gee! u r u!) - is effective. It has no side effects.
Atheism or any other belief system is best left in the closette. Better still if you can meditate there!
Food for thought : Check out
Food for thought :
Check out how beautiful the words and the music....Enjoy
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/y/hymnprom.htm
Here are the words:
In the bulb there is a flower; in the seed, an apple tree;
In cocoons, a hidden promise: butterflies will soon be free!
In the cold and snow of winter there’s a spring that waits to be,
Unrevealed until its season, something God alone can see.
There’s a song in every silence, seeking word and melody;
There’s a dawn in every darkness, bringing hope to you and me.
From the past will come the future; what it holds, a mystery,
Unrevealed until its season, something God alone can see.
In our end is our beginning; in our time, infinity;
In our doubt there is believing; in our life, eternity,
In our death, a resurrection; at the last, a victory,
Unrevealed until its season, something God alone can see.
Each one of us is: A bulb
Each one of us is:
A bulb waiting to blossom into a flower;
A seed waiting to grow into a tree;
Hidden in our cocoons, we'll be butterflies free!
We are what we are - unrevealed and that only God can see!
Let's seek our song in our silence, seek out the words and melody,
As we wait in our dawn to be delivered from darkness to light;
Past is nought and so is future, what matters is NOW - still a mystery!
In the Here and Now, everything is revealed - a pity why God alone can see!
The end is the beginning, Time is a mighty hoax,
Eternity is our true being, Death a mere falsity;
So let's seek our true victory in this imposing Immensity,
Believe me, its not something that God alone can see!
rational scientific thinking
rational scientific thinking is powerful tool that can change nay human who can think.First muslims must be made to taste free thought and philosophy.THey must be made to think and reason then every thing follows.Just like Darwin who first thought to become pastor later became naturalist after enquiry and rational approach,every human can surely become humnaist.
I support Sundried Atheist's
I support Sundried Atheist's ideas.
Basically, da thought dat we human beings r da deciders of our fates helps us self-motivated a lot.
anyway, i dont think the viewpoint dat god exists hurts much. Only islamism does. as a physicist, i think islamism is trash.
da basic of god or especially buddist is dat if one does good thin' or want somebody to get peace and succeed, god/buddist concepts naturally appears in his heart unfeelably or feelably.
to Rayhanah, i'm very glad
to Rayhanah,
i'm very glad dat ur awaken and i wish i could help u. may ur sons follow science so dat they wont be damned by such a trashy cult.
let me tell somethin':
in some countries like Vietnam or china, when u want to practice Buddhism in pagodas, u will be asked very carefully and required to think thoroughly b4 they let u enter 'coz they dont want da u later to regret. on da contrary, islamism FORCES non-muslim to practice it. here, u can see da obvious difference between islamism and other religions.
islamism is just so pathetic that it's incurable. once, i needed to search for more physics material so i googled physics lecture video. but u know what i ended up findin'? some of da pages i found contains islamic content.At dat time, i dont have any hostility against islamism 'coz i knew nothin' 'bout it. i didn't c carefully so i downloaded videos on those pages only to watch a mad muslim blabbin' about physics in allah order. what a pseudoknowledge-providing vid. i tried to watch it until da end(it lasts 60min) but after 10 min, i couldn't stand it.
c? islamism is just so pitiful ans fake a religion dat it has to advertise itself
RSS, BJP members real
RSS, BJP members real terrorists: DKS
DH News Service, Bangalore:
The Congress, on Monday, alleged that 'sycophants of RSS and the BJP' are the true terrorists of the land.
KPCC working president D K Shivakumar, after launching the party’s drive against the State Government sponsored Anti-Terrorism Awareness Programme, said that there was no need for the government to organise such a campaign as no student was involved in terror acts. “The true terrorists of the land are sycophants of RSS and the BJP,” he said.
Shivakumar launched the campaign against the Anti-Terrorism Awareness Programme by making an appeal to the principal of the Government RC College of Commerce and Management, to not cooperate with the State government’s Anti-Terrorism Awareness Programme. Principal of the college Prof G M Mahadeva Raju accepted the memorandum.
Shivakumar also flagged off 25 vehicles carrying leaders of Students Action Force, constituted by KPCC. He said that in the next one week, leaders of the force would appeal to all colleges and managements not to cooperate with the government’s campaign.
Addressing the rally, he said the government’s sponsored programme was aiming at strengthening the party’s base in colleges. “Office-bearers of the BJP, ABVP, VHP, Bajrang Dal have been involved in the campaign. They do not have right to address the student community. They should not be allowed to saffronise the education field,” he said.
Shivakumar said that if college managements did not respect the Congress party’s appeal and continued to cooperate with the government programme, the party would intensify its protest. “Hundreds of youth leaders of the party are ready to sacrifice their lives in their fight against the BJP’s saffronisation programme,” he said.
"I regret the huge amount of
"I regret the huge amount of money we spent for our Hajj and Omra. It would have been better if I had taken my boys to Disneyland or Europe."
Here's an idea: Now that you will no longer be spending money on the Hajj and Omra, you can put that money towards your sons education.
"My husband’s favourite argument is the Pascal Wager. Honestly, I do not really understand the Pascal Wager. That is why I still worry how if God (not Muhammad’s Allah) exists. I do not want to be burnt eternally in hell. But which God should I believe?
Here is Pascal's Wager:
"If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation)."
Basically if you believe in the existence of God, when in fact he does not exist, you lose nothing. Basically belief in a god, when there is no god will not harm you. If you believe in God and he does exist, then you will inherit eternal bliss. If you do not believe in the existence God and he does not exist, then you gain nothing, because there is only death you will have to face. finally is you do not believe in the existence of God and it turns out he does exist, then you are screwed.
Pascal's Wager is basically a philosophical argument as to whether or not God exists.
Here' are some other ideas: If you are still confused as to whether God exists then try studying religion and see what they have to say about the existence of God. You can also read some books about atheism and see what they have to say about why God does not exist. You can also do some exploring and take nature walks.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Ibrahim, Could you please
Ibrahim,
Could you please tell me where on this site is the article for proxy servers?
Thanks
Dear Mdm Rayhanah I would
Dear Mdm Rayhanah
I would like to congratulate you for taking this bold step..BTW be very cautious in every step you take to avoid un neccessary complication that might jeopardized your family peace and security. And of course you must be strong and be prepare co's there's a prize to pay for freedom. May the true GOD protect you and your family..
wehtiko You will find the
wehtiko
You will find the article under the misleneous section of articles in the Archive 1 folder.
#20. wehtiko ; May be the
#20. wehtiko ; May be the following will help you.
http://www.torproject.org/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm
Enjoy a secured surfing.
For those regarding whether
For those regarding whether to be an atheist versus a believer in God, if you are into science you can find good discussion of the logic of believing in God in two books: "There is a God" by Anthony Flew, a former athiest, and "What's so Great about Christianity", by Dinesh D'Souza. D'Souza's book has much more in it than just the philosophical stuff about God being real. It looks at Christianity specifically, whereas Flew has not at this point become a Christian, just a believer in God.
Jesus certainly did tell us of a God of astounding love and forgiveness. There are some books by the Caner brothers and other former muslims who became Christians.
I realize that in a muslim country it is dangerous to have Christian books in one's home. I also know that there is a growing number of muslims in muslim countries converting to Christianity. Some search the Bible on their own, others do that and talk with other converts to Christianity. There is serious risk in doing this, but many have taken that risk.
Re Pascal's Wager: Just now
Re Pascal's Wager:
Just now I opened an email that read, if you don’t send this email to ten other people you will have 16 years of bad luck.
If Pascal wager had any validity, I should have followed that instruction and made a fool of myself by forwarding the silly email to ten people. I could argue that even though the email is stupid I won’t lose anything by forwarding it to ten people, but what if it is true and I get bad luck? The price to pay is so little compared to the consequence, should the email be true.
The problem is that by forwarding the email I would made a fool of myself. That is the problem with Pascal’s wager.
Those who do not mind to be fools have a point in believing in God based on Pascal's wager. The rest of us need a better reason.
I feel that if Atheists try
I feel that if Atheists try to force their philosophy on others, then they are as good as Muslims. Respect other faiths as long as they don't try to convert you by force or coersion. Hitler was an atheist: look what he did to humanity? What about Lenin, Mussolini, and others? Scriptures say there are different degrees of self-realization. What a self-realized person sees or understands may be piece of lump for an atheist or a communist or follower of some other religion. OTOH, if a religious organisation attacks another nation, culture, or group because they do not follow what you do, then such believers are a cause of concern for the entire humanity. I feel atheism started cropping up because of this reason. Let us not forget that atheists became what they are because of intolerant religion. If atheists force upon others their beliefs, then they are returning to their original roots: HATE and monopoly over God
What many people do not
What many people do not understand is that this world is naturally secular or atheistic in a literal sense of the world. To be an atheist means failure to recognize the existance of God which is exactly what the bible says that the world is put under the blockade of the knowledge of God. I do not think atheism is a revolutionary idea as a result of 17th century rationalism as atheists tend to potray rather it is how the world is programmed to be. God also know that under natural circumstances it is impossible to know him. In fact he want us to believe him with reason.
It takes revelation to know God. I mean deliberately God choosing to show himself to man. Of course he does it throughout the history of mankind even today. It also takes man's humbleness to receive revelation, in other word faith. It is interesting to note how the bible define faith: The ability to have confidence in what is yet to be a fact, a proof of existance of what is unseen. While there has been quite numerous way God has chose to reveal himself to man, a quite remarkable point was when he chose to reveal himself through Jesus. Even that still require special revelation to know Jesus. In fact many people living in Islamic countries certainly need that special revelation.
People need to learn to have faith in the bible, the main way God has chose to speak with human beings. Otherwise humans will keep them selves from that ageold blockade of knowing God.
Ever wonder when you see
Ever wonder when you see "red" why it is red? Well, it just is.
Belief in God is basic. No evidence needed.
Look inward..Can't you see him
Look outward..Can't you see him
There is no scientific proof
There is no scientific proof as yet for the existence or non-existence of one god or even many gods. It should all boil down to one's personal belief and not any coercion by others.
Pascal's Wager is a concept based on cringing fear and not a sincere love of such a god. If you only force yourself to believe in this god's existence because of the fear of hellish punishment for not believing that he/she exists and the sole desire for heavenly reward, then you are a hypocrite. If you love your god for him/herself alone, then you are a sincere and spiritual person.
What we have today is that because of the past or present human right abuses by some religions, the whole concept of god as such is increasingly falling into disfavor. The question should be "By rejecting belief in God, are we not throwing away the baby with the bathwater?"
I believe in the idea of a trusting and loving God who allows us to be the masters of our own destiny and not blind slaves to any man, woman or ideology. It is for this reason that I reject Islam as it allows us no choice in this matter. It is a religion for slaves and not free men, women and children.
Ali Sina wrote: If Pascal
Ali Sina wrote:
If Pascal wager had any validity, I should have followed that instruction and made a fool of myself by forwarding the silly email to ten people. I could argue that even though the email is stupid I won’t lose anything by forwarding it to ten people, but what if it is true and I get bad luck? The price to pay is so little compared to the consequence, should the email be true.
The problem is that by forwarding the email I would made a fool of myself. That is the problem with Pascal’s wager.
Those who do not mind to be fools have a point in believing in God based on Pascal’s wager. The rest of us need a better reason.
I think what Pascal was trying to convey was to take the question of whether God exists more seriously because it is an important issue that should not be taken lightly, although it seems his wager is more like a spiritual issue, which may work for some people.Although I don't see the point in forwarding that email to ten other people and I don't think it will give you bad luck by not forwarding it to other people. That is purely nonsense.
rationalist wrote:
I feel that if Atheists try to force their philosophy on others, then they are as good as Muslims. Respect other faiths as long as they don’t try to convert you by force or coersion. Hitler was an atheist: look what he did to humanity? What about Lenin, Mussolini, and others? Scriptures say there are different degrees of self-realization. What a self-realized person sees or understands may be piece of lump for an atheist or a communist or follower of some other religion. OTOH, if a religious organisation attacks another nation, culture, or group because they do not follow what you do, then such believers are a cause of concern for the entire humanity. I feel atheism started cropping up because of this reason. Let us not forget that atheists became what they are because of intolerant religion. If atheists force upon others their beliefs, then they are returning to their original roots: HATE and monopoly over God
Atheism has become another religion without the organization and hierarchy.
Shafee wrote:
"Pascal’s Wager is a concept based on cringing fear and not a sincere love of such a god. If you only force yourself to believe in this god’s existence because of the fear of hellish punishment for not believing that he/she exists and the sole desire for heavenly reward, then you are a hypocrite. If you love your god for him/herself alone, then you are a sincere and spiritual person."
Pascal's wager has nothing to do with the concept of freewill and makes it seem if we do believe in the existence of God, we will be rewarded and if we don't, we will be punished. Heaven is not a reward for belief and hell is not a punishment for unbelief. To my understanding God is not like that.
to rationalist hey, excuse
to rationalist
hey, excuse me, ur nickname doesn't really suit u. i guess u know y 'coz 1 part of u can make sense.
every ism produces extremists. da thin' to pay attention to is which ism creates da most extremist.
really, i praise(i do mean praise) u 4 giving dis statement:"if Atheists try to force their philosophy on others, then they are as good as Muslims". i dont know if u' ve ever stated da similar fact "if Christians try to force their philosophy on others, then they are as good as Muslims" , but since u stated what u stated, i'm kind sure u remember the similarity.lol
u make "sense" by mentionin' Lenin as if he was a da enemy of da world! very "clever" indeed!lol Now tell me exactly what he did was wrong? what wrong was dat his ism supports more ppl dan republicanism?or will u suddenly give me a statement like dis:" Lenin's ism and democratism r fake". i've heard of such a thin' much enuf already. and what even more terrible was they told me but they didnt cite evidents.now , if u can give me some reasons, i'll be willing to heed it again.
and u meant atheism is more popular recently and nobody opposes it yet? yeah. &this world has more technology advances recently. do u understand what i've just meant? should be simple 4 u, rationalist: atheism is a good outcome of society development.
even believers will also sometimes have moments of atheism.hope ur rational enuf to realize.
ok, atheist=non-believer. y do we not believe? because we dont c, we dont hear , we dont taste, we dont touch,etc........ which mean we dont daydream. as a consequence, god =concept that appears in mind,and to be more specific, in imagination.
there4 i can conclude we atheists HATE(sorry i use ur word) imaginin'. yup. true. why not hate?a case similar to this can often happen, or at least it can be contained in some films which wont create commotions probably:a house is burned and big brother is tryin' a rescue a lil sis. yet da sis had a chain with a holy cross very important to'er. she left it somewhere she cant remember.She is tryin' to find it. but da atheist brother tell 'er to forget that chain. here i think u can guess what i want to say.
to Marie,
"Atheism has become another religion without the organization and hierarchy."
well, true. 'coz we believe in ourselves.i trust myself. she is self-confident. we want to achieve what we want by making da effort dat is worth. da rule is dat simple, y need organization and hierarchy?
and if u say da word atheists can want power, true, 'coz we r human like other believers.
feel free to give assumption now. if i can find evidence or explain, i'll help.
in case u give irrationality, i'll give some silly fairy tale to make things here more lively.
sincerely.
I notice that there are not
I notice that there are not many comments from a Christian's perspective. Perhaps it is because we have not given accuract representation of our faith. Many people call themselves "Christian" without understanding what that really means. To be Christian does not mean that we are angry and hurtful to others. Jesus said that we would be known as His followers because of our love for one another. Every time I hear someone spewing hateful comments in the name of "Christianity," I cringe. I want to apologize to the recipients. Yet being a true follower of Jesus Christ means living the life that He designs for us because we love Him. We do not force or punish those who do not believe.
Rayhanna, your new understanding of Islam is only the beginning of your quest. Yes, there is a God and He is the One True God who created you for Himself and loves you like no other. It is not a silly fairy tale. You can only understand this when you know God as Father and Jesus as Lord. I have met Him personally, therefore, no one can tell me that He does not exist. He will reveal Himself to you if you only ask. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Joan Ali SINA , welcome to
Joan Ali SINA , welcome to THE world of anti-religion. There is No god... There is no Ali Sina. THE GOD AND ALI SINA may be two masked criminals hiding in bushes.