On the Burning of the Quran
Note: Pictures added by FFI
Senior pastor Dr Terry Jones of Florida is planning to remember the victims of the September 11 attacks this year by burning the Quran. While it may sound odd at the first instant, his action may bear great significance in creating awareness about the evil contained in Islam’s holy book.
[Editor: We are against burning books, given that humanity has regretted many such previous incidents. But after studying Islam's 1400-year history, knowing the Quran's content in its best of details, and the sufferance humanity continues to suffer because of this book---we believe this is one book-burning incident that humanity would not regret, but may deem it a blessing down the years. Let us emphasize that life is what value and treasure most. And the number of human beings fall victim to death and other sufferings and inequities in a day due to the Quran and its Islam is a reason good enough to justify the burning of entire collection of this most horrendous book existing in the world today.]
Many of us aware that senior pastor Dr Terry Jones of Florida is planning to remember the victims of the September 11 attacks this year by burning the Quran. At the first instant, it sounds odd to hear such apparently hateful actions. Religious people alone can do such wonderful things; we can’t expect such acts from atheists. Later on, after analyzing the facts and the severity, which the U.S.A. is about to face from the dangerous cult of Muhammad, it gives us a little hope; at least, we have got one warrior (no mater which faith he belongs to) to stand against the most furious and deceptive Muhammad’s sword. Dr Jone’s foresight about the forth coming evil is appreciateable.
It is, however, astonishing that, instead of appreciating his courage act, the U.S. media is depicting him as a criminal, and throwing arrows at him by asking ridiculous questions. Dr Jones was asked some nonsense questions by the TV anchor, and he answered them in his own way. As an Indian ex-Muslim, who witnessed the atrocities of Muslims for 10 years in the Islamic heartland of Saudi Arabia, I wish to say something to innocent U.S. citizens by offering my answers to the questions, which the TV anchors put to Dr. Jones:
1) BEING A DEVOTEE OF THE PRINCE OF PEACE (i.e. Jesus), HOW HE COULD BURN THE QURAN?
Answer: Does being a devotee of the Prince of Peace makes it necessary to bear the atrocities in this modern age as Jesus did (as supposed) in his time?
2) WHY DO YOU HURT THE FEELINGS OF 1.5 BILLION MUSLIMS BY BURNING THEIR SACRED BOOK?
Answer: Do Christians know what sacred message the Quran delivers to Muslims? Even the so-called moderate Muslims don’t know the true message of Quran yet. If they have studied the Quran, then they would either become extremists or apostates of Islam. There is no room for such kinds as moderate Muslims in Islam.
Burning the Quran is not new in Islam. Their 3rd Caliph and the son-in-law of Muhammad, Othman, had burned the 6 out of 7 versions of the Quran, while compiling the version that exist today. After that Muhammad’s child-wife Aisha and his another son-in-law Ali jointly conspired and murdered him for political reasons, a legacy which they inherited from Muhammad. And they justified his murder for burning the Quran.
3) THERE ARE MODERATE MUSLIMS IN AMERICA WHO LOVES AMERICA AND SOME OF THEM ARE AMONG THE VICTIMS OF SEPTEMBER 11.
Yes, indeed there are 90% moderates amongst Muslims, not only in the U.S. but also throughout the world.
What was their reaction on the September 11 incident?
What are there reactions for the atrocities caused by their fanatic brothers throughout the world?
What do you mean by their silence? — Muhammad himself stated ‘Silence means consent’.
For your kind information, according to them, the Muslim victims of September 11 attacks have become martyrs and are now in Muhammad’s version of paradise frolicking with 72 virgins.
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4) HOW DO YOU FEEL IF A MUSLIM COUNTERY SAID TO YOU, OK MR. CHRISTION, YOU ARE WELCOME IN MY COUNTRY, BUT I AM BURNING YOUR BIBLE?
Either the TV anchor is ignorant of the Saudi Arabian way of life or he is deliberately misleading the audience. Let me highlight a bit:
a) If anybody wants to know the extent of tolerance of Muslims of Islam's sacred land, please visit Saudi Arabia once in your lifetime. You will experience their religious tolerance at their airport itself, if you have a Bible or a Portrait of Hindu deity with you. You will have to face the arrogant behavior of the airport personnel and the next minute your sacred book or portrait will be in trash. He won't throw it just like that; he will tear the Bible in to pieces and break the portrait by throwing it far away mercilessly in front of you. In this way, they welcome the people of other religions.
b) You can also see how the women, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims, gets lashes in front of their husbands, in public places by the shariya police for not covering the headscarf 'properly' in spite of their black tarpaulin costumes.
c) It is really a curse to be a maidservant in Saudi Arabia. You will hear the numerous stories about those helpless souls. In Saudi Arabia, the housemaid is not only for the household work, but also for 'ALL' work. They are being 'used' by all male members of that house, and also by the visiting male relatives of her master, apart from the enormous household chores.
d) Non-Muslims can't eat publicly during the fasting hours in the month of Ramadan. They should eat their lunch behind closed doors, during their duty hours. If they want to purchase anything during the 5 prayers, they should wait and stay outside the shops until the prayer finishes. Usually the shops were kept closed at least 30 minutes for each prayer.
e) Punishment for watching pornography and drinking alcohol is limited to foreigners only (unofficially), whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims.
There are many more things to write about their tolerances, which require pages to write. With this I rest the case.
Burning or destruction of the Bible is also commonplace in many Islamic countries, such as in Indonesia, Egypt etc., where fanatic Muslim mobs often attack Christian churches and establishments, and destroys or burns their holy books. Malaysia, the most moderate, modern and progressive Muslim countries, has confiscated tens of thousands of copies of the Bible for using the word 'Allah' to denote God. Where have those copies of the Quran gone? To fire or destroyed?
My request to well-meaning or freethinking non-Muslims and the atheists: please don’t compare Islam with any other religions, because it is not a religion at all. It is purely a cunning political system, hidden behind the pious religious mask, intended to conquer the whole world as per the barbaric teachings and methods of Muhammad. No spirituality exists in it, except war and deception.
As we are all aware that political systems need dirty ways to survive. The political system, which Muhammad started 1,400 years ago, is still survives with almost all its peculiarities. All other major political systems of the past, like the Romans, Pharaohs, Persians and the Byzantines have lost their empires, only Islam exists. With that, one can imagine the extent of the dirt, deceptions, cruelty, lies and vandalism of the cult of Muhammad.
Here I like to share with you one out of the numerous sayings of the great prophet of Islam.
Sahih Al-Bukhari 7.427:
The prophet said, “By Allah and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.”
Hundreds of such teachings of Muhammad are scattered everywhere in the Quran and Hadiths. He also taught how to lie, how to kill the helpless, how to discriminate against women, how to topple the governments of his enemies by deception, and how to rape the helpless women etc.
Unless we spare our time on studying these very serious subject, it is not easy to overcome the most dangerous and deceptive cult of Muhammad. It is the time to wakeup and act, or else it will be too late to overcome this beast.
Finally, if you are not bold enough to stand against the evil of Islam, please don’t act cowardly to discourage Dr. Terry Jones. His burning the Quran is only a small symbolic act, but it may carry great significance through creating awareness and curiosity amongst people to find out what is there in this book. In careful reading and study of the Quran, by both Muslims and non-Muslims, only lies the lasting solution to the raging scourge of Islam.
Posted by Mirza Ghalib
on September 5 2010. Filed under Op-Ed.
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Satanago…Since you cannot refute logically, but keep quoting the same nonsense again and again…I am going to stop with this…
This part already explains the dark skin does NOT refer to skin color….according to even western Indologists…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasa#Tvac
Tvac “skin” does, however, also take a secondary, more general meaning of “surface, cover” in the Rigveda, in particular referring to the Earth’s surface. For this reason, there can be debate on whether instances of krsna tvac should be taken to refer literally to a “black skinned people”. Maria Schetelich (1990) considers it a symbolic expression for darkness. Similarly, Michael Witzel (1995b) writes about terms like krsna tvac that “while it would be easy to assume reference to skin colour, this would go against the spirit of the hymns: for Vedic poets, black always signifies evil, and any other meaning would be secondary in these contexts”. Hans Hock argues along similar lines [19]
The Rigvedic commentator Sayana explains the word tvacam krsna (RV 1.130.8) as referring to an asura (demon) called Krsna whose skin was torn apart by Indra.
This refutes all your claims…
2.020.07 Indra, the slayer of Vr.tra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the black-sprung servile (hosts); he engendered the earth and the waters for Manu; may he fulfill the entire prayer of the sacrificer. [Has scattered the black-sprung servile hosts: kr.s.nayonir da_si_r airyad vi, he scattered the sacrifice-disturbing asura armies {kr.s.n.ayoni = nikr.s.t.a ja_ti; da_si_ = upaks.apayitri_, a_suri_ sena_ (army}; another interpretation: pregnant wife of the asura named kr.s.n.a (yah kr.s.n.a_garbha_h nirahanr.jis'vana_: RV 1.101.1)].
This commentary by Sayana makes it clear that black womb refers to the world of asuras or demons…
Western Indologists also agree that this compound word refers to world of darkness….Hence your arguments are already refuted…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasa
The term krsnavonih in RV 2.20.7 has been interpreted by Asko Parpola as meaning "which in their wombs hid the black people". Sethna (1992) writes, referring to a comment by Richard Hartz, that "there is no need to follow Parpola in assuming a further unexpressed word meaning "people" in the middle of the compound krsnayonih", and the better known translation by Griffith, i.e. "who dwelt in darkness" can be considered as essentially correct.[15] Another scholar, Hans Hock (1999), finds Karl Friedrich Geldner's translation of krsnayonih (RV 2.20.7) as "Blacks in their wombs" and of krsnagarbha (RV 1.101.1) as "pregnant with the Blacks" "quite recherché" and thinks that it could refer to the "dark world" of the Dasas.
Quite idiotic indeed….
1. Which temple you are talking about? Suppose say there is some temple….There are thousands of Hindu temples all over India more than 1000s of years old….Why don't they contain?
2. I have shown clearly from western academicians and from ancient Indian commentaries that all the claims are wrong and translations often mislead.
Unlike quran or babble, Vedas are written in ancient Sanskrit, which even many Indian Sanskrit scholars and western linguists find it very hard to understand…If you know anything about Vedic Sanskrit you will appreciate what I say…..
If you have studied the works of Western Indologists you will know it… I have already quoted many in my posts…Go and refer…before making stupid statements….or just refer to the statements in bold referred to from indologists in the above post…
Look how Indologists have difficulty in understanding the the meaning of tge compound word "krsnayonih" (dark womb or black womb) or "Krsna tvac (dark skin)"…….literal meanings of these words will mislead anyone and even Western scholars agree….You need NOT take my word for granted…I have quoted the different opinions of Western Scholars in Vedic Sanskrit…Refer yourselves…
hahahah…LOL…quite funny….
So u r saying your donkey god jehova did NOT authorize this and moses issued these orders by himself…LOL….Is there anything more stupid than this you can do…
In other words
1. You are claiming your donkey god jehova chose a criminal as his prophet just like pimp donkey allah chose muhammad.
2. Moses who is said to have heard the voice of donkey jehova directly is not protected from evil thoughts….
So donkey jehova is
a.) powerless to stop the evil committed by moses and his followers
b.) donkey god jehova is himself evil..
c.) both (a.) and (b.)
Further verses make it clear that donkey god jehova indeed authorized the loot and rape of moses…
It is very clear that donkey god Jehova indeed authorized every act of Moses => your donkey god jehova indeed authorized pedophilia and sexual slavery…
[...] On the Burning of the Quran | Faithfreedom.org [...]
Sure Continuum,
And what about my other question on what kind of destruction that you wish on xian nation by your muslim comrade?? In regard to your post on on September 7, 2010 at 10:51 pm “….I whole heartedly wish mooslims destroy all xian nations…”
Ibnsahr
Have you noticed that continuum has not even given one verse in the Bible that orders CHRISTIANS to murder,rape & take spoils.Continuum has not even shown us one instance in the Bible where a christian murdered,raped & took spoils.
I have given many verse from their scriptures that shows hindu gods murdering kids (metaphorical or not) which also set the precedence for hindus like Agigarta to slay his son & also the hindu mothers who slew her children in the Mahabharata Book1: Adi Parva :XCIV:p.200 "Their mothers, therefore, became angry and slew them all…"
I've also shown verses from the vedas where hindus slay & take spoils & gives Indra the credit.But so far Continuum has shown no verses in the Bible where christians are ordered to murder,rape & take spoils.There's no record of christians in the Bible taking part in these acts
continuum says:Satanago…Since you cannot refute logically, but keep quoting the same nonsense again and again…I am going to stop with this…"
continuum then goes on to give me the reference for apparently refuting me.This is hilarious because the same reference (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasa) says "the meaning of the word dāsa, which has been long preserved in the Khotanese dialect, is "man".
They then go on to describe Daysu as "Dasyus is in Iranian "dahyu" and means tribe, province and district. "Dah-" means "male, man" in Iranian. The "dahyu-pati" (also dahyunam) was the head of the tribe."
Thanks for that link buddy,you've proven that hindus are indeed mass murderers
Continuum says:2.020.07 Indra, the slayer of Vr.tra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the black-sprung servile (hosts); he engendered the earth and the waters for Manu; may he fulfill the entire prayer of the sacrificer.
I say:This does not help your cause.Your translation says that Indra is responsible for destroying cities.The verse goes on to say "BLACK sprung SERVILE (hosts)".
*Servile means slave & once again they are black.Also the 6th verse says "..brought low the dear head of the wicked Dāsa."
*Again,the Dasa are real people,even according to the link you gave.But more importantly,they are referred to as BLACK SLAVES in your verse.Plus Indra is given credit for destroying their cities.
[...] …Burning the Quran is not new in Islam. Their 3rd Caliph and the son-in-law of Muhammad, Othman, had burned the 6 out of 7 versions of the Quran, while compiling the version that exist today…. Tagged as: bootlicker, dhimmitude, freedom of speech, jizyah, Terry Jones Loading … Print This Post Trackback this post Comments RSS Feed ` Gelesen: 85 · heute: 85 · zuletzt: September 11, 2010 similar posts Pastor Terry Jones burn the Quran vs. Muslims burn America’s flag [...]
Satanago,
I have clearly shown that none of the words "black sprung servile hosts" etc. in the original verses have the meaning of skin color as per western scholars….
The word dasa in contemporary language means servile or servant which is positive as servant of God……In contemporary and classic Sanskrit it is positive period…..however the Vedic meaning is NOT clear to even scholars…..In Vedic understanding it is negative……that is all one can say for now….
Your enthusiasm for slandering Vedas is NOT going to change the truth…
From the aovequote it is clear that the term Dasy or Dasa is even applied to reverred personalities in Vedas themselves as also to enemies of Vedic people. Hypocrite Xians like you can lie, but truth exposes liars…
Khotanese or Iranian are later derivations from Vedic Sanskrit.. In Iranian counterpart, Vedic words have just the opposite meanings…So your points regarding these DO NOT reflect necessarily Vedic position…You have no idea about what you are copy pasting….
Indra being destroyer of cities..yes..destroyer of cities of asuras or demonic beings…Just like Devatas live in cities of their own in Vedic understanding, so do asuras or demons….
Your point on `Mahabharatha story is quite ridiculous to say the least….This story DOES NOT imply that Hindu mothers are to kill children….it is an event, just like the case of say solomon raping some other guys wife after killing him…It is like taking solomon's action and then saying this is what bible teaches jews and/or xians…Your point is just as stupid…
and I have shown all of them are wrong translations….none of them talk about spoils or slaying people…..
What about it zahr??? One can wish death of one's hated enemy at the hands of another hated enemy….mooslims are your comrades…..
Continuum says:The word dasa in contemporary language means servile or servant which is positive as servant of God……In contemporary and classic Sanskrit it is positive period…..however the Vedic meaning is NOT clear to even scholars…..In Vedic understanding it is negative……that is all one can say for now…."
I say:According to the above explanation,Dasa is indeed a man because a supernatural demon cannot be a positive servant of God.
Rg.V 4:28:4 Lower than all besides hast thou, O Indra, cast down the Dasyus,*abject tribes of Dāsas.
Ye drove away, ye put to death the FOEMAN, and took great vengeance with your murdering weapons."
*Abject (hopless/miserable) Tribes
======================================================
Continuum says:Dasyu is a term that could also be applied to Vedic kings, if their behaviour changed…there are Dasas and Aryas on both sides of the battlefield and in some Rigvedic verses, the Aryas and Dasas stood united against their enemies.
I say:This reminds me of when Muhammad joined forces with the Jews to fight his enemies.But at the end of the day,the Jews were still his enemies.Even the term Kafir in Islam is sometimes used for muslims.
===============================================================
Continuum says:Indra being destroyer of cities..yes..destroyer of cities of asuras or demonic beings…Just like Devatas live in cities of their own in Vedic understanding, so do asuras or demons….
Yeah sure,these city demons are also cattle farmers,they have goldsmiths,eat food & have animals used for labor.
Rig Veda 9:41:1. ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls,
Driving the BLACK SKIN far away.
2 Quelling the riteless Dasyu, may we think upon the bridge of bliss,Leaving the bridge of woe behind.”
The 4th verse says:Pour out on us abundant food, when thou art pressed, O Indu wealth
In kine and gold and steeds and spoil.”
================================================
Keep in mind that Muhammad did the same to the jews.By demonizing them & making his Allah turn them in to pigs – the words swine in the Hadith are synonymous with jews.
Yes…indeed it refers to a man, in classical Sanskrit, NOT Vedic Sanskrit…..I am NOT surprised you did NOT understand anything from what I had written being a low IQ xian…
In this context, the verse does refer to men….but lets see whom does it refer to?
4.028.03 Indra has slain the Dasyus, Soma, in battle; Agni has consumed them before the noon; he (Indra) has destroyed the whole of many thosands, as (robbers are the destroyers of those) going upon (their own) business, in a difficult and dangerous (place). [Before the noon: pura_ madhyandina_t, in the forenoon, when the Soma is drunk, and thence Indra and Agni have been invigorated; as robbers are the destroyers of those: the text has only durge duron.e kratva_ na ya_ta_m, as of those gone on account of business, in a difficult place; the implied terms are: where protection is difficult, from robbers].
4.028.04 Indra, you have made these Dasyus devoid of all (good qualities); you have made the races without rites abject; may you, (Soma and Indra), repel (and) destroy (your) enemies; accept (our) homage for their destruction.
In Vedas Daasyu or Daasa is a term referring to many entities..from enemies of Devatas, i.e. asuras or demons to evil men…and to even reverred personalities…Inth eabove context it refers to tribes of men who subsist by stealing people going about heir business. So your contention that Dasa refers to black people is pure nonsense…
You must be a genius…..At first you say Dasyu or Dasa refers to black people and when proven beyond doubt that is NOT the case now you are making a claim that Dasa or Dasyus are non-believers and applying the barbaric biblical model on civilized Vedic texts……Xians hypocrites will stoop to any level and lie to make their point…This can also be disproved easily….
All I have to show is that there were Aryas and Dasas on both sides of the camp..which would disprove your claim that Dasas or Dasyus refer to non-believers necessarily…
The above quotes clearly show
1. Revered Vedic seers (Arya) were called as Dasa.
2. Vedic Kings (Aryas) who acted inappropriately or unjustly were also called as Dasas.
3. There were both Arya enemies and Dasa enemies in Rig vedic battles…
4. There were both Arya and Dasa people standing together against enemies.
The situation is similar to Mahabharatha and the wars were between just and unjust forces. Belief or non-belief was NOT the basis, but unjust actions led to wars.
So your claim of imposing barbaric bible model or barbaric quran model (believers vs unbelievers) on Vedas is clearly shown to be false.
You Xians can only lie about Eastern religions to hide barbarity of your uncivilized religion.
You are a fool satanago….Different verses in Rig Veda have different contexts. As I have shown above, the terms Dasa or Dasyu can be applied to a range of different entities in Rg Vedic texts.
So get this into your thick numb skull…
Second, I have already shown, Krsna tvacam or black skin does NOT refer to literally black sking in Rg Veda…I quote again..
Third read the last part of Rg Vedic commentator Sayana…Every time the words krsna Tvac are used in Rg Veda in connection with Indra, it always refers to asuras or demons…In this context it is the same case….
The reference to riteless Dasyus (dásyum avratám) is a way to denote the wickedness of these entities..The word avrtam means wicked or one who opposes Vedic ways or Vedic rites..This appelation is especially applied to asuras or demons as they oppose Vedic God and Devatas.
You must be some joker…….
1. The verses you referred to are prayers to Devatas Indra and Soma by Vedic people. They are asking for cattle and kine and wealth through their worship. When they pray to Indra and Soma, Rg Vedic verses always refers to hero like actions of Indra against asuras or demons. Hope this makes it clear to you why Dasyus or demons are referred to in this place. Refer Rg Vedic verse 1:101:1 which I have already given or refer to Srivaishnava website again.
2. The 4th verse especially makes it more clear that these verses are in reference to Rg Vedic rites of pressing Soma juice. This ritual is believed to bring wealth to the performer. Vedic rituals by themselves are believed to bring wealth, longevity etc. and has no connection to war wahtsoever in this context.
3. The stupid xian who translated this verse as including spoils is obviously demented moron. There is no reference to spoils here. I will give wor for word translation of the verse and show the xian fool is wrong in his translation.
aá pavasva mahiím íSaM gómad indo híraNyavat
áshvaavad vaájavat sutáH
From or through (aá) purified (pavasva) extract (sutáH) (of Soma Juice), mighty (mahiím) Soma (indo), deliver us (iSaM) (wealth) giver of cattle (gomad), giver of riches, gold etc.(hiranyavat), giver of horses (áshvaavad vaájavat)..
ashva and Vaji are two types of horses.. There is no mention of spoils or war here….it is clear reference of Vedic ritual of pressing soma juice.
continuum says:In Vedas Daasyu or Daasa is a term referring to many entities..from enemies of Devatas, i.e. asuras or demons to evil men…and to even reverred personalities…Inth eabove context it refers to tribes of men who subsist by stealing people going about heir business. So your contention that Dasa refers to black people is pure nonsense…"
I say:If it's pure nonsense then why is this the only religious book with so many reference to black skin & white complexions.Even so,the Dasa & Dasyu were real people that were massacred,regardless of color as you claim.The Rig Veda speaks of slaying 100 000 Dasa in 4:30:15 & in the 21st verse,sending 30 000 Dasa to slumber.
So are you going to deny the genocide of nearly 19 million indigenous Indian people by Aryans?
============================================================
I never said Dasa were unbelievers.I said they joined in fight with the Aryans the same way Muhammad joined forces with his unbelieving enemies.But now that you mentioned it,unbelievers are also demonized in Hinduism.Like the Buddha & Buddhists were condemned for being atheists.
==============================================================
You said:So your contention that Dasa refers to black people is pure nonsense…
Take a look at these verses & tell me if it's pure nonsense to assume racism.
RgV:1:100(C):18 He, much invoked, hath slain Dasyus and Śimyus, after his wont, and laid them low with arrows.The mighty Thunderer with his FAIR-complexioned friends won the land, the sunlight, and the waters.
19 May Indra evermore be our protector, and unimperilled may we win the BOOTY…"
1:101(CI):1. SING, with oblation, praise to him who maketh glad, who with Ṛjiśvan drove the *dusky brood away.
10 Rejoice thee with thine own Bay Steeds, O Indra, unclose thy jaws and let thy lips be open.
Thou with the FAIR CHEEK, let thy Bay Steeds bring thee: gracious to us, he pleased with our oblation.
11 Guards of the camp whose praisers are the Maruts, may we through Indra, get ourselves the BOOTY.
*dusky = dark in color /brood = offspring
===================================================
You said:The stupid xian who translated this verse as including spoils is obviously demented moron. There is no reference to spoils here. I will give wor for word translation of the verse and show the xian fool is wrong in his translation.
I think the xian fool is unbiased in his translation,after all even Hinduwebsite.com accepts it.When you combine the 2 translations,then it really exposes the true brutal nature of the Rig Veda.But even srivashnava can't hide the whole truth.
Srivaishnav RgV1.102.10 You conquer, and withhold not the BOOTY; in trifling or in serious conflicts, we sharpen you, fierce Maghavan, for our defence; do you, therefore, inspirit us in our defiances.
1.073.05 May your opulent worshippers, Agni, obtain (abundant) food; may the learned (who praise you) and offer you (oblations), acquire long life; may we gain in battles BOOTY from our foes, presenting their portion to the gods for (the acquisition of) renown.
Continuum says:Second, I have already shown, Krsna tvacam or black skin does NOT refer to literally black sking in Rg Veda…I quote again..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasa#Tvac
This reference you gave says :For this reason, there can be DEBATE on whether instances of krsna tvac should be taken to refer literally to a “black skinned people”.
In other words,they are not sure themselves whether it should be taken literally.
You have NOT shown any evidence that these were human in the first place…
Infact the dictionary clearly states the reference in 4:30:15 is to demons…not humans..
Every quote you provide ONLY proves my case and shows that you without even understanding the context are making slander against Vedas.
Shows how low Xians will stoop in order to slander Hinduism. I have already explained, the black skin refers to darkness of demons and whiteness refers to light within believers and Devatas. This is the Vedic view..
More evidence…
In other words dasas are at the least enemies….What do you think is the reason for this enmity?
Perhaps you did NOT read the quotes properly…
If Dasas are enemies and/or blacks, while Aryas are white as you claim
1. Why are Aryas called as Dasas by Sudas in rig Veda?
2. Why is a Vedic Rishi or Seer called as Dasa?
yes it is nonsense and it was already explained before…
1.100.18 Indra, who is invoked by many, attended by the moving (Maruts), having attacked the Dasyus and the S'imyus, slew them with his thunderbolt; the thunderer then divided the fields with his white-complexioned friends, and rescued the sun and set free the water. [s'imyus = enemies and ra_ks.asas; sakhibhi s-vitnyebhih: winds or Maruts; allusion to earthly friends or worshippers of Indra, who were white (s'vitnya)].
The whiteness like the blackness is metaphorical…Simyus are rakshasas or demons…
Wrong translation…no booty here…..I want the Sanskrit word translated as booty and justify your translation..
1.100.19 May Indra be daily our vindicator, and may we, with undiverted course, enjoy (abundant) food; and may Mitra, Varun.a, Aditi–ocean, earth and heaven, preserve it to us].
All heroic acts of Indra always involve killing of asuras or demons in Vedas. Lying does NOT change the facts about Vedas.
1.101.01 Offer adoration with oblations to him who is delighted (with praise), who, with R.jis'van, destroyed the pregnant wives of Kr.s.n.a; desirous of protection, we invoke, to become our friend, him, who is the showerer (of benefits), who holds the thunderbolt in his right hand, attended by the Maruts. [R.jis'van was a king and friend of Indra; Kr.s.n.a was an asura, who was slain, together with his wives, that none of his posterity might survive. Kr.s.n.a, the black may be Vr.tra, the black cloud].
WRONG TRANSLATION
1.101.10 Rejoice, Indra, with the steeds who are of your nature; open your jaws, set wide your throat (to drink Soma); let your horses bring you, who have a handsome chin, (hither), and, benignant towards us, be pleased by our oblations.
1.101.11 Protected by that destroyer (of foes), who is united in praise with the Maruts, we may receive sustenance from Indra; and may Mitra, Varun.a, Aditi — ocean, earth and heaven, preserve it to us.
Another pathetic try without understanding the context.
The verse clearly refers to the acts of Indra, Devata or God, directly..
the verse says
The wars talked about here is between Devatas (Gods) and asuras (demons). The context makes it clear.
this is also a case of bad translation….whether it is in SriVaishnava or not…
Again I can give word for word translation to prove this…I will even give links to meanings of these words..
ví pR'kSo agne maghávaano ashyur ví suuráyo dádato víshvam aáyuH
sanéma vaájaM samithéSv aryó bhaagáM devéSu shrávase dádhaanaaH
The part in BOLD is what is translated as containing BOOTY…Now let see if this is true
Now you can see the words have so many different meanings. What is the correct translation one should adopt here. The context will make it clear…
The preceding part of this verse says
From this the context is offering oblations or doing religious rites.
This translation is in context and makes more sense than war and booty for the simple reason ….
The performers of this religious rituals are Brahmins who are NOT allowed to fight wars.
The warriors are NOT allowed to perform religious rituals on their own.
The verses are praises of Rishis, who are Brahmins. The whole argument about wars and booty is hence illogical.
Exactly….
This is why all the translations including the ones containing black skin, booty etc. should be taken literally…They are NOT sure…
So tell me why you are so sure that it does refer to racism when the "scholars" themselves are NOT sure?
Do you have an agenda?
Besides do NOT forget the statements made by scholars all of whom consider it is more likely that Krsna tvac and other such references are metaphorical…
None of the "scholars" above say these words are references to racism, instead say these words are metaphorical.
However, you, who does NOT have even the basic knowledge of Sanskrit are making claims with 100% certainty…
Why?
Is it because you are a Xian hypocrite too eager to discredit Vedas even against overwhelming evidence to the contrary????
should read as
Exactly….
This is why all the translations including the ones containing black skin, booty etc. should NOT be taken literally…They are NOT sure…
Continuum says:You have NOT shown any evidence that these were human in the first place…
I say:Just because the vedas include the word varcin in the same sentence as Dasyu,does not make them less human.This was only an attempt to demonize the Dasyus,in order to legitimize their genocide.
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You said"Infact the dictionary clearly states the reference in 4:30:15 is to demons…not humans..
I say:Acccording to Manu,Dasyu are real
Laws of Manu X:32. A Dasyu begets on an Ayogava (woman) a Sairandhra, who is skilled in adorning and attending (his master), who, (though) not a slave, lives like a slave, (or) subsists by snaring (animals)."
45. All those tribes in this world, which are excluded from (the community of) those born from the mouth, the arms, the thighs, and the feet (of Brahman), are called Dasyus, whether they speak the language of the Mlekkhas (barbarians) or that of the Aryans.
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In Srimad Bhagavatam speaks of Buddha & associates him with other mythical deities who will decieve man.Here Buddha also seems to be a mythical figure but there's enough historical facts to prove he was a real person.
S.B1:3:24 Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, in the province of Gaya, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.
Continuum says:The wars talked about here is between Devatas (Gods) and asuras (demons). The context makes it clear."
I say:I will use another example from the Purana to demonstrate how Hindus demonize real people by adding words like asura & varcin to the names of tribes.
*(Budhyate is Buddha) & (Bauddhas are Buddhists)
Vishnu Purana:Book III:Chapter 18
…"It is known" (Budhyate), these Daityas were induced by the
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arch deceiver to deviate from their religious duties (and become Bauddhas), by his repeated arguments and variously urged persuasions 5, When they had abandoned their own faith, they persuaded others to do the same, and the heresy spread, and many deserted the practices enjoined by the Vedas and the laws.The delusions of the false teacher paused not with the conversion of the Daityas to the Jaina and Bauddha heresies, but with various erroneous tenets he prevailed upon others to apostatize, until the whole were led astray, and deserted the doctrines and observances inculcated by the three Vedas. Some then spake evil of the sacred books; some blasphemed the gods; some treated sacrifices and other devotional ceremonies with scorn; and others calumniated the Brahmans"
*Here it's already been established that Buddha was considered evil for causing the Daityas to abandon the Vedas.Then a few passages later they are now associated with Asuras/demons & killed in a battle*
V.P3:18"…mighty Asuras, fall from heaven: the text that has reason is alone to be acknowledged by me, and by such as you are 7." By such and similar
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lessons the Daityas were perverted, so that not one of them admitted the authority of the Vedas.
When the Daityas had thus declined from the path of the holy writings, the deities took courage, and gathered together for battle. Hostilities accordingly were renewed, but the demons were now defeated and slain by the gods, who had adhered to the righteous path. The armour of religion, which had formerly protected the Daityas, had been discarded by them, and upon its abandonment followed their destruction."
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Conclusion:
Buddha a real person has been called the foe of the gods/arch deceiver for causing the Daitya race to apostatize & become Buddhists & Jains,who were later referred to as demons were slain in a battle by the gods.
Continuum says all the Rig Veda translations containing the words booty & spoil are wrong.
Well here's another 'wrong' translation copied from srinaishnava that claims the battles against the Dasyu were for spoils/booty.
Rg.V:4.016.09 …impious Dasyu has been destroyed in the contest for the SPOILS.
4.016.10 With a mind resolved on killing the Dasyu, you came (to his dwelling), .."
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Even if the word SPOIL & BOOTY is absent in a verse…the main reason for battle is still quite evident.The preceding verse tell us they referring to the Dasa.
5.034.07 He proceeds to PLUNDER the WEALTH of the (avaricious), and bestows the riches that are prized by man upon the donor (of the libation); every man is involved in great difficulty who provokes the might of Indra to wrath.
Continuum believes in boiling oil in the abode of Lord Yama and will reincarnate as an animal afterwards.
More stupidity from satanago….
The Dasyus Manu refers to and Dasyus Vedas refers to are different.
They are NOT the same…Just as there isa demon named Krsna in Rig Veda (as per Sayana) and there is avatara of God of Vedas named Krsna in Mahabharatha, so are the references to Dasyus different in Vedas and different in Manu Smriti….Dumb people do NOT understand this…
Another pathetic try….
It speaks of Buddha deceiving asuras as your own quote says….It does NOT say all Buddhists are asuras…..what it says is asuras or demons were misled by false religious teachings of Buddha…
Her is your own quote…
Again the Dasyus here refer to demons….because it is Indra directly vanquishing them…
The above verses clearly show that Indra directly egaging in war, so it is reference to Deva-asura war (War between Gods and demons) and NOT human one…
5.034.06 Thinning (his enemies) in battle, and accelerating the wheels (of his car), he turns away from him who offers no libation, and augments (the prosperity of) the offerer; Indra, the subduer of all, the formidable, the lord, conducts the Da_sa at his pleasure.
5.034.07 He proceeds to plunder the wealth of the (avaricious), and bestows the riches that are prized by man upon the donor (of the libation); every man is involved in great difficulty who provokes the might of Indra to wrath.
The above verses clearly refer to Indra enriching his worshipers as opposed to those who do NOT…I is NOT reference to physical war but reference to those who are avaricious….
Continuum says:The Dasyus Manu refers to and Dasyus Vedas refers to are different.
They are NOT the same…Just as there isa demon named Krsna in Rig Veda (as per Sayana) and there is avatara of God of Vedas named Krsna in Mahabharatha, so are the references to Dasyus different in Vedas and different in Manu Smriti….Dumb people do NOT understand this…"
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I've explained many times that demons don't own gold & cattle.I've showed verses from the Rig veda where spoils/booty are taken from them,even though you said they were wrong translations,you have failed so far to give me an english translation from a credible source.
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You said:The above verses clearly refer to Indra enriching his worshipers as opposed to those who do NOT…
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Again,I cannot understand how a god can plunder wealth from demons.This is beyond absurd.
Also in hinduism,a brahmin is considered to be superior to the other castes and fit to be worshipped.So if men can be gods then why can't their enemies be considered demons?
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You said:I is NOT reference to physical war but reference to those who are avaricious…"
So in other words;rob the robbers.Where's the spiritual lesson in that?
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You said:Another pathetic try….
It speaks of Buddha deceiving asuras as your own quote says….It does NOT say all Buddhists are asuras…..what it says is asuras or demons were misled by false religious teachings of Buddha…
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Firstly,Buddha misled the demons from their religion,causing them to abandon the vedas.Surely this is incriminating.Hindu demons,reading the vedas & Buddha deceiving them through teachings of non-violence,who later get murdered by the gods.
2ndly,How does a man(Buddha) deceive demons…shouldn't it have been the other way around?
3rdly,How can you mislead someone that's on the wrong path anyway?
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This logic is beyond ridiculous if the Daityas were considered supernatural demons.
This would only make sense if they were humans,that were later demonized for apostatizing.
This also explains how other tribes like Dasyus & Nagas came to be called demonic.
*[anavilsamaj.com/history] explains in detail the origins of these groups
First, many of your references were shown to be wrong translations as per SriVaishnava website.
Second, where the direct translations are NOT given, I have already given with dictionary meanings and justified my translation based on context and logic…
Third, some of of your references were shown to be prayers of people to Gods for riches with no reference to wars whatsoever.
Do you understand poetic language satanago? Apparently not…Let me quote the verses again…
The above verses visualize Indra as a warrior who punishes the avaricious (men) by taking away their wealth (which is poetically described as plundering their wealth). It DOES NOT refer to physical war…Do you get it now? There is no robbery here….It is a punishment of evil people that is referred to here in a poetical way…It does NOT represent real physical wars….
Yes.real Brahmins are considered worshipful and like Gods, because of presence of Gods in these qualified Brahmins. There are explicit statements to this effect in scriptures.
However, the same does NOT apply to evil people, because there is NO explicit statement to this effect.
Read your own quotes again…Buddha talked about in those verses is NOT a man or the man you think about…
First, many of your references were shown to be wrong translations as per SriVaishnava website.
Second, where the direct translations are NOT given, I have already given with dictionary meanings and justified my translation based on context and logic…
Third, some of of your references were shown to be prayers of people to Gods for riches with no reference to wars whatsoever.
Do you understand poetic language satanago? Apparently not…Let me quote the verses again…
The above verses visualize Indra as a warrior who punishes the avaricious (men) by taking away their wealth (which is poetically described as plundering their wealth). It DOES NOT refer to physical war…Do you get it now? There is no robbery here….It is a punishment of evil people that is referred to here in a poetical way…It does NOT represent real physical wars….
Yes.real Brahmins are considered worshipful and like Gods, because of presence of Gods in these qualified Brahmins. There are explicit statements to this effect in scriptures.
However, the same does NOT apply to evil people, because there is NO explicit statement to this effect.
Read your own quotes again…Buddha talked about in those verses is NOT a man or the man you think about…
?????
You are imposing your biblical notion of demons here….which are purely spiritual beings….
However the Vedic notion is NOT similar. Both Gods (Devatas) and demons (asuras) possess bodies, finite lifetime, grow up, learn etc. etc. Both Gods and Demons have their own world, just like human beings live on Earth, they live on other worlds. They are similar to human beings but have far superior capacities….This is the Vedic notion of Gods and demons.
Sometimes, both Gods and demons incarnate among human beings as well….This is what is Mahabharatha war, Pandavas being incarnations of Gods and Kauravas being incarnations of demons.
After the war ends, the demons (kauravas and allies) incarnated among humans again. The Adi Buddha avatar (different from gauthama Buddha) then misleads them. This is what is explained.
All this is based on intentional LIES or at the least gross misunderstanding of Vedic scriptures.
[...] Once again: This church’s plan to burn the Qur’an on September 11 is stupid…. On the Burning of the Quran …Burning the Quran is not new in Islam. Their 3rd Caliph and the son-in-law of Muhammad, Othman, [...]
Quran is the most beautiful and magnificent book of the world.
you burn Quran you burn in hell
fatima your thoughts are still in 7th century, come out from myth world ,there is no such thing hell
The Islamofacisti are so ideologically depraved the only solution is to kill them. All of them. Like we did the Nazi’s, the Moro’s, the Facist Japanese, and other bloodthirsty, evil humans. Islam is under the Devil himself, evil incarnate. They will not be reasoned with, they will not be appeased, cannot be bargained with. Their goal is a world caliphate under Sharia law. They will continue to murder, rape and destroy in the name of Allah (satan).
God will give His chosen, the Jews, the ability opportunity and authority to destroy Islam, wipe it from the face of the earth. The same way He has saved them from the Nazi’s and given them back their ancient homeland. Praise His name.