FaithFreedom.org

Another paedophile is forced out from under his stone

Azad Miah a “Bangladeshi national” who, according to the BBC account, “hounded and stalked” his victims, was convicted at Carlisle Crown Court, UK, and jailed for 15 years for attempting to recruit four girls aged between 12 and 16 into prostitution.  The details are in the article at the link above, but suffice it to say that Miah targeted these girls in much the same way as had those convicted recently in Rochdale, in a manner typical of the
paedophile who focuses on vulnerable, needy children.

The case had two chilling resonances with the Rochdale crimes.  The first was that one of the victims had complained to the police three times in 2008 about Miah’s harassment of her – three years before his arrest. 

The 12 year old child said that she eventually gave up complaining because nothing was done.  Miah’s legal team said there was no official record of her complaints.  In a news bulletin earlier, I heard the Carlisle police force’s fumbling explanation of why they had taken no action – that the complaint was “in the form of intelligence snippets” rather than formally allegations – with the contempt it deserves.   I hope that the police involved at that time will be subjected to an identical official enquiry to that into Rochdale police’s lamentable failure to act.

The Daily Mail has the following:

 VICTIM ONE

She was 14 when she was introduced to Miah by a mutual friend who was much older than her. The woman, who was paid to find vulnerable girls Miah could exploit, had taken her to his takeaway in Carlisle city centre.

The girl was addicted to heroin, cannabis and alcohol from the age of 12, and her life was in chaos. She was desperate to fund her £60-a-day habit and instantly agreed to
prostitute herself. She was paid £100-a-time by Miah for sex.

The girl, who caught chlamydia and gonorrhoea from Miah, told the court she went on to have sex with him nearly every day – ‘hundreds of times’.

VICTIM TWO

It began with hundreds of text messages, all of them of a sexual nature and aggressive in tone. The girl replied to the first text by telling Miah she was only 12 years old.

Undeterred, he told her that he ‘wasn’t bothered’ about her age and would give her money for sex. More messages followed, including a picture he had taken as she walked down Botchergate, the main road in Carlisle city centre. She was terrified.

In one message he told her: ‘In my country it doesn’t matter about age.’ He offered her £40 to have sex with her and told her that her resistance was futile as he knew where
she lived. She refused to have sex with him.

VICTIM THREE

The 15-year-old girl was introduced to him by a much older woman. The girl wanted to earn money to buy cannabis.

She met Miah in the shop and he asked her: ‘Do you want to make love to me for £80?’ He knew she was only 15 yet he saw it as no obstacle and had sex with her.

VICTIM FOUR

The 16-year-old met Miah at his restaurant. Hours later he began texting her and it soon became persistent.

He asked her to marry his cousin to keep him in the country and then asked her to sleep with him for money, but she refused.

VICTIM FIVE

She was 16 when she was introduced to Miah at his takeaway. Within a week he had begun texting her. He offered her £70-£90 for sex, but she refused.

It seems to me that the problem these Muslims have with controlling their sexual urges towards kufar children is not one limited to UK geography, or large Muslim communities, or the fact that their community apparently turns a blind eye to it.  The Muslim population of Carlisle is fairly small.  No, I would argue once more that
it is located within the contempt with which Islam perceives the female, the Muslim
male’s essential lack of socialisation which in these cases leads him to objectify females, the male’s conflictedness about sex and the obstinate refusal on the part of Muslims to locate the responsibility for their behaviours within themselves.

The second chilling resonance is that Miah originally hailed from Rochdale.  Police are investigating whether he has links with the Pakistani males recently convicted of child abuse there.   If that should turn out to be the case then one wonders why he left.  Too much competition perhaps?

Short URL: http://www.archive2012.faithfreedom.org/?p=36332

Posted by on May 15 2012. Filed under Op-Ed. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

109 Comments for “Another paedophile is forced out from under his stone”

  1. Raj

    One thing to be noted is that these guys are into everything ILLEGAL. They are the ones who sell drugs, then force/persuade girls into sex/prostitution and finally as has been mentioned in the article – try to make these girls marry to illegal immigrants to give them legality.

    In short, all illegal jobs are taken care of by these Muslim guys.

    Another thing to be noted is that the Muslims tend to concentrate in and near the coastal/port/wharf areas. Gives them much needed access to carry on their illegal and anti national activities.

  2. Rashid a ex-muslim

    Just deport these musslimbs the critters of IS-LAME back to there home countries and contain the problem for good. We need to save the west for freedom sake and future generations, Enough is enough.

  3. Babs

    You may well be right, but if so why do they do this? Are they so dead inside that they need the stimulus?

    I found these little snippets at http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/carlisle-takeaw

    and http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/i-m-a-family-ma

    Note the last vestige of a scoundrel defence – "I can't say no to women.."

    Note also the lies and wriggling, even when he must have known that he would be found out. Typical of the Muslim male caught out who thinks that just because he says a thing it is true.

    And note these little gems from his testimony:

    "..On day 10 of the trial, the father-of four was asked what a man in his forties had in common with young girls.

    Mr Evans said: “Do you know what 16-year-old girls are into, pop music and the like? Are you a Justin Bieber fan?

    Miah replied: “Who is Justin Bieber?”

    “So you don’t know who Justin Bieber is or the bands the girls are into or what they watch on TV?” said Mr Evans.

    “I don’t have time to watch television,” said Miah.

    Mr Evans added: “My point is this, you are a man in your forties and these were young girls. What exactly did you have in common when you text them?”

    Miah said: “As a friend, nothing else.”

    Mr Evans said: “You can’t tell us why you were really texting them because the answer is that you were texting for sex.”

    Miah replied: “I have done nothing wrong. Why didn’t the girl show the texts to the police?”

    Note the immature morality – that what he did cannot have been wrong because the girls didn't show the texts to the police.

    Except that one of them did.

    • jonmc

      "Note the last vestige of a scoundrel defence – "I can't say no to women.."
      And a sex slave can't say "no" to a Mussalman either, neither can his wives.

    • Flame

      typical muslim – no guilt. only shame – and only because his crimes are publicly known. not because he is persuaded that his actions are bad and he needs to repent.

  4. Hakam ibn Jahl

    Oportet occidere haec adulteri

  5. Dragoste7

    15 years are not enough for this scumbag. He should be locked out for life!

  6. Apostate

    It is always the same : Islam=evil .

  7. big nub

    always the same drill

    "blaming the religion of the sins of mankind"

    boringggggg. what else you got?

    • Soovey

      Islam is a total belief system, a cult rather than a religion, big nub. For far too long it has been given a free pass in the west by governments which are too spineless to confront its encroachment , exaggerated sense of entitlement and hair trigger sense of grievance. The greatest danger from it is that it wants to foist its medieval belief system on you and me by force if we don't agree to go willingly once it is present in great enough numbers.

      It is hate-filled, supremacist and you have to be either dumb or mad to take it seriously or at its face value.

      And if you are bored, why not go play somewhere else?

    • CountryFirst

      and i have heard umpteen times muslims say its a way of life !!!

    • Constant

      Always the same drill, said big nub.
      But you still don't get the message , big nub. !
      It is time for you to really think about our drilling!
      We have nothing else here ! We are fighting against your EVIL CULT ! That is the ONLY thing we do here !! ;-)
      And we will go on , till it is gone. If necessary till the end of time.
      DOWN WITH ISLAM. !!!!

      • big nub

        sure, your writing posts, and when a muslim comes by, your beating the hell out them in a debate, and they leave and never read the site again, nice plan dude :D

        • Demsci

          But we do praise the apostates very much and often, big nub. It is only Islam we really beat a person up about.

          But Muslims can be very nice, lovable people. They are much more than people believing in Islam. Only they are siding with all these anti-Democratic "bad" other Muslims, all around the world and get chastised here because of this association, not personal, but they can change.

          You too, you now run the risk of being attached to a religion for life, that won't bring you all you could achieve without it, with truth, happiness, great thoughts, relationships. Later in life, you may come to regret staying inside Islam too long and wasting much of your life.

          Most important, the only valid reason to stay inside Islam is in the long run your estimation if it is indeed true or not. Not just some kind of feeling good about Islam for you, but for it being really true.

          And to begin with, it is Muslims who have the burden of proof, for without proof Islam's claims are highly unlikely when you look at it objectively. and any proof presented by Muslims has been effectively refuted on FFI.

          That means that you cannot count on Jannat after this life also. Just you believing in it won;'t create the situation of you being in Jannat after death.

  8. Elmore

    Muslims rape infidels with relish. It is in their constitution called the Koran. Muhammad did it, so it is legal

  9. larry

    When are you Brits oing to start beating the brown out of these dog pooops ?

  10. misogynist

    I agree totally with "Soovey". Islam is a sex-based cult. their god is satan and they love it simply because Islam empowers them over the weaker sex. Can a real God hate, promote murder, rape(although there is no such thing as RAPE in Islam) genocide, wife-beating, limb cutting, stoning, theft, and slavery and still be considered a God? Only very primitive people can think and believe that such a God can exist.

  11. misoginist

    If there is a God, and if there is a heaven, I submit to you that all Islamists will reside in Hell simply becausu of their stupidity. No sensible person, when given the opportunity to read the Koran, would opt to believe in such nonesense and vile teachings.

  12. misoginist

    Are not all Christians and Islamist amazed that all the Prophets sent by God were sent to the Middle East?. None were sent to China, Australia, North America, Europe, South America, India or anywhere else. Maybe it's because that in all these other regions there were more intelligent societies and such primitive beliefs would not take hold.

    • Worldpeace

      Good observation. With the exception of Israel, all ME ( read Arab) countries are backward.

      • Historian

        Arabs aren't backwards only Muslims.
        Besides not all Arab countries are "Arabs" as they are declared today. Most of them became "Arabic countries" after Islamic invasion.

        In Syria many villages still speak Aramaic, their original language and the language of Jesus.

        Lebanon was not an Arabic country; it was declared an Arabic country around the 1950 to please the 40% of Muslims. Many priests kept teaching the Aramaic and the Soumary.
        Beirut is called Paris of ME and is very civilized. Everything civilized in Lebanon is caused by the Christians or by their influence on local Muslims. Everything uncivilized in Lebanon is caused by Muslims.
        Christians proposed a law to protect women from domestic violence. All Muslims refused to sign it saying that “the law stops at the door of the Muslim’s house”

        • Dipa

          Interesting thing is though Jesus was born (?) in middle east, most of his followers are from Europe (unlike Islam)

          • Grimstone

            This would be down to Islamic military occupation of the Middle East over the centuries.

    • @misoginist

      God spoke to all people not just middle easterns. Don't you wonder why there are saints all over the world?

    • Grimstone

      Correction, the prophets were all Israelites. Mohammad was not a prophet.

  13. fakeman

    muslims r horny and lustful persons they everywhere tries to molest women

    • jonmc

      Read it (why do I waste my time?) and it re-states your cut-n-paste above, with the only valuid conclusion that Muslims shold not wed below 40 (even that writer did not find another verse linking ashudaah to any specific age).

  14. big nub

    but people here are judging islam by the musllims that does wrong, they wont judge islam when they do something right, its kinda a one sided judgement

    RE: For far too long it has been given a free pass in the west by governments which are too spineless to confront its encroachment , exaggerated sense of entitlement and hair trigger sense of grievance

    dude, what about what happen with the crusade? you gave the christians another chance dont you? thats kinda not fair

    RE: Well, is the Islamic reaction,

    ahh i finally get you, youre judging muslim as a whole, and hahaha, im here getting so upset cos youre saying that every muslim is like that, and if you do ask, no every muslim is not like that, everyone is differentm but none the less, i get your point

    • CHUTIYA_SHABEER

      The bottom line is…. people who take Muhammad as role model are sick and Islam is nothing but an evil cult….

    • jonmc

      "but people here are judging islam by the musllims that does wrong, they wont judge islam when they do something right, its kinda a one sided judgement."
      What you say here has a point: there are obviously criminals in all societies/ethnic groups etc. and were we simply to say that all crime committed by Muslims is because of Islam, then you would be right.
      BUT what I think most people here do is judge in the light of Islamic teachings. Thus when Islamic teaching and doctrine says that women are less then men, that non-Muslims are less than Muslims, that sex with 9 year olds is a Good Thing, that women are primarily for sexual gratification, etc. then, when Muslims abuse women/girls and especially non-Muslim women/girls is it unreasonable to make the link?

      We can all play the "history game" big nub.
      What about all the Islamic jihads and Razias into Xtian lands PRIOR to the crusades?
      These went on for nearly 400 years beforehand (including the sacking of Rome).
      Sure the crusades make a nice big stick to beat Western Xtians with, but it has to be accepted that initially at least they were a response to Islamic Jihad.
      Why is the mantra "Jihad good, Crusade bad"?
      So: I'll see your crusades and raise you 400 years of Jihad and Razzia.

      "RE: Well, is the Islamic reaction… i get your point."
      Actually no. Most writers here are very careful to only judge Islam, not Muslims, or at least to base such judgement on Islamic teaching (though without accepting that it exonerates them).
      The point Demsci was making (in the negative formulation) is that Muslims are very quick to CLAIM CREDIT for Islam for everything "good" (however that might be defined) done by Muslims, but to DENY Islam's RESPONSIBILITY for anything "bad" done by Muslims.
      This is rather hypocritical (though a common human tendency, it has to be said).
      Therefore, if Muslims want to claim the "good of Islam", they must accept the "bad of Islam" too.
      That's not a judgement of Muslims, but of Islam itself.

    • Hanna

      When do Muslims do something" right "? GIve us an example please. Just interested as I haven't "yet" come across anything "right" in Islam ….I must be wrong, have missed something ?

      • big nub

        RE: The bottom line is…. people who take Muhammad as role model are sick and Islam is nothing but an evil cult….

        not really, you dont see me runing around killing people or raping people now do you?

        RE: all crime committed by Muslims is because of Islam, then you would be right.

        well i would agree to some part of it, but then i would blame the person who does the crime, like for instance, suicide bombing is not allowed in islam yet there are many muslims who do it for the sake of jihad,
        now you see there, its basiclly depending on how you want it to be

        RE: women are less then men,

        no islam states that woman and men are equal

        RE: non-Muslims are less than Muslims

        i read people say this now, but i think i agree with this one, some muslims tend to think they are better than non

        RE: sex with 9 year olds is a Good Thing

        well this is new, um, wrong sir, sex with a person who reached puberty and married to you is allowed, check the age of consent in islam please, but they never said its good lol

        RE: women are primarily for sexual gratification

        where did you get this?

        RE: "history game"

        so now what we are doing is playing the blaming game right?
        well the truth is, every religion has its own blood shed history, and when you said "jihads and Razias into Xtian lands PRIOR to the crusades"
        yes its true, but i asked many muslims about this case and guess what they said? many Xtians are destroying mosque and burning qurans in places where there arent many muslims, EX: in Indonesia, in Timor Leste or somewhere near papua, the mosques got attacked by a bunch of Xtians,and not just 1 mosque, but many

        RE: Muslims want to claim the "good of Islam", they must accept the "bad of Islam" too.

        i agree with this so much, after observing things about muslim around the world, well i have to admit it, they are stubborn, but wait, when i take a closer look, guess what? theyre arabs, that answered my big question, why is islam like in the US or europe are so violent? BECAUSE THEYRE ARABS, not trying to be racist here, but, lets admit it, if you compare 2 muslims one is an arab, and one is an asian, chances are, the asian would be more calm

        RE: When do Muslims do something" right "?

        that question is kinda braggy, so il answer it simply and with a joke,

        when they let you live :D

        • Grimstone

          It’s funny because you appear to be a rational man providing irrational answers. For example, “check the age of consent in Islam” is some kind of justification for sleeping with a nine year old. Do you remember being nine? Do you have nine year old children? Surely you cannot believe it’s right that a flat chested, no pubic hair nine year old who is a child in every respect is ready to have some 50+ year old lay on top of her and force his way in, do you? That child would be too scared to say ‘no’ to the monster that is taking advantage of her. If you think that’s ok, then shame on you.

          • big nub

            RE: some kind of justification for sleeping with a nine year old.

            okay so mr smart ass, i'll say something, just because it is allowed, it doesnt mean that you should do it, i mean you DO have your own concience (*pardon my spelling) dont you?

            RE: Surely you cannot believe it’s right

            well thats just your opinion, listen, pedophile or child sex or what ever you called, wasnt a problem back then, back then when the age of the prophet, its just a different culutral view of it a people just made it a problem now,
            IF i have a 9 year old daughter, i wouldnt let her have sexual relationship, but dude, if someone wants to do it, then thats their choice, not yours

          • jonmc

            #1.”i mean you DO have your own conscience.”
            Well yes, we do. But do you?
            3:110 (Pickthall): Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind.”
            68:4 (Hilali-Khan): “And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character.”
            2:2 (Arberry) “That is the Book [the Koran], wherein is no doubt, a guidance to the god-fearing.”
            4:80 (Malik): Anyone who obeys the Messenger, in fact, obeys Allah.”
            3:31 (Malik): "Tell the people (O Muhammad): "If you sincerely love Allah, then follow me;”
            33:36 (Hilali-Khan): It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision.”
            Thus Muslims are “the best” and Mohammed is an “exalted character” – thus the “best of the best”. There can be “no doubt” about the teaching of the Koran which says that obeying Mo is obeying Allah and Mo tells Muslims to follow him (i.e. do as I do) and once MoAllah have “decreed a matter” then Muslims can have no (other) opinion on it.
            Thus Muslims have no personal conscience at all, their “conscience” is defined by the Koran etc.
            This leads to:
            #2 “well thats just your opinion, listen, pedophile …i wouldnt let her have sexual relationship, but dude, if someone wants to do it, then thats their choice, not yours”
            With respect, I think that statement matches my comment above. No, it's NOT “their choice” at all! Or it certainly SHOULD NOT BE because a 9 year old child CANNOT a). be ready physically or mentally for sex, b) give informed consent.
            Thus “their choice” is to RAPE A CHILD (are you supporting child-rape?) or, if that phrase refers to the child (your post is ambiguous on this), this is NOT something which IS their choice – because they are INCAPABLE at that age of understanding the “choice” properly. On the contrary, it is the DUTY of all (responsible) adults to PROTECT all children FROM such “choices”. That's why Western Countries call this sort of thing “statutory rape” or similar. Even if “consent” is given by the child, it's STILL RAPE because the child is an INNOCENT incapable of making an (informed) decision.
            Neither is it “just a different culutral[sic] view”. We know, today, that very early sexual activity is physically damaging to girls (this may be why Aisha had no children) causing a range of medical problems for many, especially is they DO get pregnant (e.g. vesicovaginal (obstetric) fistula which means that the girl urinates continuously due to a rupture between her bladder and vagina. This means she is always “unclean” and is, consequently, often rejected by the man who damaged her.)

            Btw: You do realise that by justifying Mo's actions as “[child rape] wasnt a problem back then, back then when the age of the prophet” you are denying that Mo is an example for all to follow for all time?

          • big nub

            RE: Well yes, we do. But do you?

            yes i do thats why dont sleep with 9 year olds -.-

            RE: by justifying Mo's actions as “[child rape] wasnt a problem back then, back then when the age of the prophet” you are denying that Mo is an example for all to follow for all time?

            well wait, ITS NOT CHILD RAPE, there wasnt any stories about aisha rejecting the marriage, so thereffore its not rape and not an act of crime
            im not denying anything my good sir, as you see its just a different culture and time, if you look at china and you see canabalsm, do you care about it as much as you care about taking down islam? no you dont do you, why? cos its their culture

          • Grimstone

            “ITS NOT CHILD RAPE, there wasnt any stories about aisha rejecting the marriage”

            That would be laughable if it wasn’t so sick.

            A six year old didn’t deny Mohammad in marriage, and when she turned nine, she didn’t reject him in the sack. Well, if that’s the case, I guess it’s alright then ay? I mean, a girl of her age can make her own decisions, she’s a big girl after all. When the sick, depraved monster mounted her, I’m sure she lent back and said, “give me all you got Mo, make me bleed,” with a big f#@king smile on her face!!!

          • Grimstone

            How dare you justify this monster!!! These are not the actions of someone who represents our creator. These are the actions of the fallen one, he who wants us to suffer eternally, the condemned angel of light, the first and most loved angel who fell from grace. He who wagered with god that he will have us pray more to him than to god himself, and he’s right, you guys pray five times a day, right?

            You are the tyranny of evil men, you are the dark force that threatens to take the world. But I got news for you, your side loses. Read up on Revelations my friend before it’s too late. Open your eyes and stop making excuses.

          • Esther

            You are very EVIL, STUPID AND STUBBORN little 'big nub'.
            So get LOST. In your heart you know what we mean , but you can not accept the truth, because you must leave Islam then. And you are TOO afraid for the non existing hell.
            Your a backward man !

          • big nub

            ah yes, im evil so thats why im just defending my religion, ah yes, im stupid thats why study these things before i go to this site again, ah yes, im stubborn, thats why im trying to make peace with the people

            sure esther, what ever you have to say, me, a muslim, i'll just move along now, LOL

          • Demsci

            I gather that Jonmc's point was that we know and Muslims know that Muhammad is presented as the perfect man (Al Insan Al Kamil) (many ordinary humans, not Muslims, joke about the "Insane Camel" because of that).

            Consider the big implications of that very central tenet of Islam, big nub, that Muhammad is the ultimate rolemodel in Islam. We know that countless good stories about him are presented by Islamic clerics and believed by Muslims. While we suspect that these are almost wholly made up.

            But Muslims so often state that they love Muhammad MORE than themselves, MORE than their parents, loved ones. That they would CHOOSE Muhammad over those real people if any of them put them before such choice.

            And NOW, now that this perfect, deeply beloved man is charged with pedofilia, Muslims emphasize that he lived in a different time and a different culture. And Jonmc is prepared to concede that point, clearly.

            Only, can, for the love of God, Muslims now concede that such a man, well, really is OUTDATED, OBSOLETE as a rolemodel for all times?! At least in part? I mean, this rolemodel, even with all the beautiful stories about him, clearly is a MIXTURE of good and bad, of being outdated. And that the danger is that "misunderstanding" simple Muslims not only will emulate Muhammad's beautiful-story-behavior, BUT ALSO these bad examples, clearly mentioned in the "sunnah".

            What with all this expanding knowledge, all this changing morals in more than a thousand years? Really, it is such a shame that THIS is the LAST messenger of God!

          • Soovey

            This is very wonky thinking, big nub. Some questions:

            Why do you think aisha did not reject the marriage? Do you honestly believe that she really had a say in the matter? In the West, it's not a sufficient defence in law to argue that just because even a grown woman did not actually say "no" to sexual intercourse with a man, that meant that she wanted it! The prosecution's case would hinge on the fact that the animal who raped her should not have assumed such a thing. Back then children were the possessions of their parents and dared not disobey, but even aisha's father tried to prevent your prophet from forcing himself onto this nine year old child.

            It mightn't have been rape or a crime then, Einstein, but it's certainly a crime now, when Muslim men use underage white or other girls for sex or make speeches in mosques justifying child marriage.

            Even if the Chinese were cannibals and they are not, I doubt that they would be as arrogant that their cannibalism was the only way to behave, nor would they have the effrontery to argue that we should eat each other just because they do, or allow them to continue eating each other. Islam, on the other hand, argues that everyone on earth should embrace Islam, by invitation or by force.

            I can't speak for anyone else, but my main revulsion about Islam is its unshakeable and totally misplaced belief in its own superiority and rectitude, whilst at the same time making slaves of its women and abusing its children by filling their heads with violence and perpetrating mayhem and violence wherever its slaves are to be found in any number.

          • Grimstone

            “pedophile or child sex or what ever you called, wasnt a problem back then”

            That’s interesting you would make such a statement, but I’m afraid that’s just not the case. The fact that it wasn’t against the law did NOT mean it wasn’t a problem back then. Most ‘good’ people would have been looking after their own family, making a living, surviving. Those with greed in their heart sought to dominate the ‘good’ people. Their greed and ambition pushed them to the top and it is these suspicious characters that made the laws, and these laws were there simply to suit the needs of the ‘elite’, their welfare, not everyone else’s. Where ‘good’ people would not have slept with a minor, ‘bad’ people could because “it wasn’t against the law”, laws made by the greedy and the ambitious for the greedy and the ambitious.

          • Grimstone

            So let’s not talk about the law at that time because it has no relevance. We’re not talking about a twelve year old boy sleeping with a nine year old girl; Mohammad was in his late fifties!!! If the law allows you to kill an innocent bystander, it still doesn’t make it right.

            So let’s talk about god. God is all knowing, right? He’s been up there for our entire existence, right? Linear time does not apply to god as He resides outside of this, in a place where the past, present and future converge in to one single moment, right? I mean, that’s how He can be in all places at all times, right? So why would a god, who knows what today’s attitudes towards child sex would be, have His 50+ year old prophet bed a child? Is god oblivious how such an action would turn our stomachs (today and in the past – only the sick of mind can justify this action)?

          • Grimstone

            The answer is, He wouldn’t. You can scratch at any excuses you like, I doubt you’d be willing to accept that it’s ok for a man of your dad’s age to sleep with a girl of your daughters age. That is sick in any time frame and god has more respect for His creations, and certainly more than your Mohammad and Allah do obviously.

            Perhaps you would like to justify slavery too?

          • big nub

            listen, im not god, im not perfect, im just a human, all your beloved questions about god is what im also trying to figure it out, you see the case of the pedhophillia (*pardon spelling) its a big question mark for me too, but hey, i cant answer everything, i dont know everything, but you know what i know? if someone ask me what my religion is, i would answer to them its islam
            and im not trying to prove that islam is right, but im trying to prove that islam is not wrong

            and if in you, or all the other ffi posters think that islam is wrong, well then thats your point of view and its none of my concern

            i mean, freedom of belief right?

          • Demsci

            OK, conceded, you do have freedom of belief.

            You know, Big Nub, it is one thing you trying to prove Islam is not wrong, on the website of Critical Islam Experts.

            But please understand that hundreds of millions of Muslims may well interpret Islam much different from you or your surrounding. That get's reported here.

            These other Muslims may well make Islam and you look bad, while you do not share their views.

            If you want to stay a Muslim, perhaps one day in future you can join some subgroup of Muslims, which can be more in harmony with Democracy and which only allows and keeps members in on condition of agreeing with that group. So that your group does not look so bad all the time by the monitored acts and declarations of these other "Islam-misunderstanding Muslims".

          • soovey

            so your prophet shouldn't have done it. Well done. There's hope for you yet.

            And paedophilia might not have been a problem back then but we and the children targeted by these animals are living now when we know much more about the mental and physical damage such abuse can do.

            And for you to call sexual abuse of children now by Muslim males "a different cultural view" shows how morally and spiritually bankrupt you are.

            And your final sentence – along the lines of it's their choice, proves it

        • jonmc

          #1 Big nub wrote: “like for instance, suicide bombing is not allowed in islam yet there are many muslims who do it for the sake of jihad”
          That's partly my point BN. Some Muslims at least justify suicide bombing on the basis of islamic teaching and Jihad is “qital fee sabili Allahi”.
          Therefore these Muslims link Jihad to suicide bombing using texts of the Koran. Maybe they are 'abusing' the Koran to do so, but they produce cogent and coherent arguments to say they are not.
          The ban on suicide bombing is based on the ban on suicide. But in sword-Jihad one “kills and is killed”. Thus: even if you know your action will result in your death, if you “take your enemy with you” is that suicide?

          #2“no islam states that woman and men are equal”
          Perhaps we have different definitions of “equality” then. To me it is not equal that:
          1. a women's testimony is “worth” half that of a Mussalman's.
          2. a woman's inheritance is half (at best) that of a Mussalman's.
          3. A Mussalman can have multiple wives, but a woman can't have multiple husbands.
          4. A Mussalman can divorce a wife by “triple talaq” whereas a Muslima has to go through the whole Shari'ah rigmarole, overseen by a male 'judge'.
          5. The Koran (K.4:34) and numerous Sahih hadith legitimise wife-beating.

          #3 sex with 9 year olds is a Good Thing. BN replied: “ well this is new, um, wrong sir, sex with a person who reached puberty and married to you is allowed, check the age of consent in islam please, but they never said its good lol”
          Imam Muhammad Al-'Arifi: “There is no agreed-upon minimum age for the marriage of a boy or a girl. It depends upon their maturity. … in the days of Prophet Muhammad and his companions, people would get married at a younger age. For example, how old was 'Aisha when the Prophet Muhammad … had sex with her? She was nine years old.
          Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti, Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al al-Sheikh, “a girl becomes ready for marriage at 10 or 12 according to Islam” (he must mean lunar not solar years, otherwise he de-legitimises Mo'n'Aisha.)
          Thus either there is no explicit age of consent or it is 9+ solar years, following ol'Mo's example.
          “reaching puberty” means what, exactly – primarche? Girls are not ready for sex (never mind marriage) at this age as modern medicine shows. Thus being married or not to a young girl is irrelevant in Western law (it would be illegal anyway) and sex with her is statutory rape (or national equivalent) irrespective of how compliant she is.
          But I'm surprised to see you write “…but they never said its good lol …”. Does this mean that you think Mohammed did “bad” things? Surely Islam teaches you to “obey the Prophet” in both word and deed?

          #4 “women are primarily for sexual gratification … where did you get this?
          2:223 (Shakir):Your wives are a tilth [fertile soil] for you, so go into your tilth when you like…”
          and the verses about sex-slaves: “whom you right hand possess” – in more than one way. Also Bukhari Vol.4, Bk.54, No.460; Vol.6, Bk 60, Number 466; Vol.7, Bk.62, No.81, No.121; Muslim Bk.8, Number 3240; Ibn Majah 185; Ishaq p 496. (I'm sure there are more, I haven't read all of the hadith as yet.)

          #5 “so now what we are doing is playing the blaming game right?”
          Um – that wasn't my intent. My point was that often Muslims seem to have a myopic view of history that stretches back ONLY to the crusades, but never considers anything prior. I was trying (obviously failed) to make my point jocularly in my “I'll see your crusades …”.
          Since you raise the issue of current behaviours: I'll grant that Xtians are destroying mosques etc. in some places (I don't know enough to argue the point pro or con) but, by the same token, I assume you agree that many Churches, Temples etc. have been destroyed in Indonesia, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, etc.
          But this is a bootless comparison, except insofar as it touches on Dhimmitude.

          • big nub

            RE: #1

            well then is not islams fault its the fault of muslim missintreperting (*pardon my spelling) the quran, cos if you read a quran with the……(i forgot the name of the term) but it will explain what the surah actually mean and to stop missunderstanding

            RE: a women's testimony is “worth” half that of a Mussalman's.

            have you ever heard the term where women use more of her feelings than her logic and men use more their logic than his feelings? its there written in my year 11 biology book

            RE: a woman's inheritance is half (at best) that of a Mussalman's.

            because a muslim man have to use the money to feed his whole family whereas the woman can use it for her own if she wants

            RE: . A Mussalman can have multiple wives, but a woman can't have multiple husbands.

            if a woman has multiple husbands, according to you, if your wife is pregnant from another man and you want to make her pregnant too, how would you feel? to have to wait 9 months?

            RE: A Mussalman can divorce a wife by “triple talaq” whereas a Muslima has to go through the whole Shari'ah rigmarole, overseen by a male 'judge'.

            sorry about this one, i dont know what this is so i cant give a comment

            RE: The Koran (K.4:34) and numerous Sahih hadith legitimise wife-beating.

            did you read the surah? it doesnt say you can hit her like you mean it, it says to hit her lightly so that she understands what you meant, well i dont know how to say it right but its something like that,
            like when youre child is being naughty and you have to slap him on the bottom? yea something like that

            RE: #3

            there, it says right there, IT DEPENDS ON THEIR MATURITY
            the knowledge is that every person is different, and the probability is that aisha matured or reached puberty at the age of 9, and who are we to judge? we know nothing about her personal things

            RE: modern medicine shows

            umm i want to say somthing about this statement, ive read it somewhere in an atheist page that science is not stationary, (sorry just want to point it out)

            RE: Does this mean that you think Mohammed did “bad” things

            just because i said its not good it doesnt mean its bad,
            EX, if there was a car crash and you saw the guy who crashed, there are 3 possibilities, either you help him, you make him suffer or you leave him alone
            do you see it? there is also the neutral side

            RE: Your wives are a tilth [fertile soil] for you, so go into your tilth when you like.

            umm, where does the word "primarily" comes in?
            its just one of the things that a wife is for,
            like if i say, "your mother is someone who brought you to this world" now would you say that your mothers primary function is to give birth to you? i doubt it

            RE: whom you right hand possess”

            yea i know about the sex slaves, well again its different culture and time, back then slaves were everywhere you know that, and if you havent know yet, there are countries i asia who still have slaves but hiding away from the government

            RE: Muslims seem to have a myopic view of history that stretches back ONLY to the crusades

            well not really, personally i said the crusades cos i just watched that robin hood movie

            RE: (I don't know enough to argue the point pro or con)

            and sorry i dont know much about what happend in the US or UK cos i dont live there

            RE: I assume you agree that many Churches, Temples etc. have been destroyed in Indonesia, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, etc.

            well i agree that there is not peace in the world right now

            RE: except insofar as it touches on Dhimmitude.

            i dont know much about this, but what a coincidence i just started learning about this in my class, anyway, acorrding to what my class said, its mostly because of the many incoming algerian immigrants to france, and of course, the most common thing that an arabic or african people could do is use force, soooo yeah

          • jonmc

            BN: what I said was “maybe 'abusing' the koran”, I did not say “were abusing the Koran”. I'm sure you are educated enough to know the verses that command killing Kafirs in the Koran and the supporting Hadith.
            My point was two-fold, though I could have made it more clearly: those Muslims who disagree with suicide bombing (on the basis of the suicide part) use that to reject it, whereas the proponents use a whole raft of Koran verses and Ahadith to support it; thus they don't see suicide bombing as "un-Islamic".
            Therefore, at best, your statement that “suicide bombing is not allowed in islam yet there are many muslims who do it for the sake of jihad” is controverted in that those “muslims who do it for the sake of jihad” would disagree with the first part of your statement.
            Further: the real problem is that “many Muslims” (your words) think that the Koran supports suicide bombing. What does that say about the Koran itself?

            Rest of Re:s in #2: they do not address my points, rather they show that your definition of “equality” IS different to mine, since you “justify” differences in treatment by (supposed) differences in responsibilities.
            Also, with respect, you show a rather patriarchal attitude in saying “if your wife is pregnant from another man and you want to make her pregnant too, how would you feel?”. Flip that about a bit to consider the WOMAN's feelings about “sharing her man”.
            Koran 4:34. Of course I've read it. I'm sorry, but you are in error here. The arabic does not contain the word “lightly” (at a guess it's in parahtheses – like this phrase), which means it's an interpolation by the translator. He's added that word to the text to “soften” the verse. Add in any/all of the authoritative Tafseers and it just gets worse: Qurtubi went so far as to say that beating your wife to death wasn't a crime or a sin.

            Re.#3s: You are either missing or deliberately neglecting the point: no girl is “mature” at 9 or 10 years of age, thus her (relative) maturity is irrelevant. This is just an excuse for paedophilia.
            As for Aisha, that argument is a case of “special pleading” – you are saying that she (unlike other girls) was a “special case” who was mature at nine.
            Okay, let me grant you your argument (for the moment). If that is so, then why doesn't the Koran or Sunnah SAY so? Allah, the all-knowing, must have known that if Mo had sex with a nine year old, other Mussalmen would feel entitled to do so too UNLESS it was forbidden (Remember: Mo got a “special dispensation” from Allah to exceed the allotment of 4 wives simultaneously, but the Koran explicitly says it is for Mo alone) so if Mo's 'marriage' to Aisha was another “special dispensation” why does Allah not say so? Or why no clear Hadith on the matter?

            “read it somewhere in an atheist page that science is not stationary”. Absolutely true, and your point is what exactly?
            “if there was a car crash …there is also the neutral side”. Granted. But, with respect, we are talking about Mohammed here who is supposed to be the perfect exemplar for all mankind for all time – according to Islam/Muslims. So let me put the question this way: is it good enough that Mohammed does things which are “neutral”? Shouldn't his example ALWAYS we a good one? (And I'm not conceding that sex with a nine year old is neutral btw.)

            Re: wives: I note you don't address the Hadith that make the point more clearly. Also: we are not talking about what I think women are “primarily” or otherwise “for”, nor – frankly – what you do. I said that Islam says women are primarily for sex and you haven't produced any evidence in rebuttal. Over to you …
            Re: slaves. Countries in Asia, Africa, Arabia actually; in short across the Islamic world. But does not the mere fact that Islam EXPLICITLY permitted the capture of women for sex-slavery show that it regards women as primarily for sexual gratification?

            “RE: Muslims seem to have a myopic view of history that stretches back ONLY to the crusades”.
            'well not really, personally i said the crusades cos i just watched that robin hood movie'”.
            LOL! But seriously, Islamic Jihad against Xtian Countries pre-dates the Crusades by ~400 years.

            Final para. Again, with respect, I think you've a lot more to learn about Dhimmitude in your class. I'll not spoil it for you…

          • big nub

            listen, im well aware about the killing verses, the slavery verses, the child marriage verse, etc
            but why i cant give a rebuttal? its simple, i have no knowledge of it, i dont know the origin of the verse and etc
            so pardon me if i cant give a good enough rebuttal but im still studying

            you see, i stopped opening ffi like for 4 months just for studying more, and i guess 4 months its not enough, so here, well played sir, il try to get more knowledge of this religion of mine, but hey, im not intending to convert anytime soon now, i just wanna increase my knowledge,

            so, i guess i'll stop ffi ing for now,

            thank you all the ffi posters for having a nice little debate or argument with me,

            PS: nextt time, stop saying if i have a daughter, SERIOUSLY DUDE, IM JUST 16

            and thus, i admit defeat not cos of my religion is wrong but because my knowledge is still not enough

            PEACE Y'ALL

            (i actually need time to study for my end year test and basicly have no time to ffi-ing)

            TILL NEXT TIME

          • Grimstone

            Dude, I’m so sorry for my previous assault. I do try to be calm and rational, but on some topics I get a little heated up. I’ve gotten used to the Muslim apologists justifying slavery and rape and claiming that I’m the one that needs to be educated. In fact, someone who signs in as ‘Mohammad’ insists that my mother is a prostitute, but, best to my knowledge, I’m pretty sure she’s not. 

            If you’re off to ‘study up’, I would be sincerely interested in your findings. I guess the hot topics here are:

          • Grimstone

            1.How can a disciple of God be a slave trader; The argument being that we are all sons and daughters of our holy father, so why would He want half of His offspring to be mistreated so, and why would one who claims to be a shining example for us to follow practice such a trade?
            2.How can a disciple of God take part in rape; You’ll hear that there is no mention of rape in the Qur’an, but when it states, “they killed all the men and ‘slept’ with the women”, how could that possibly not be rape? The book was written to glorify Mohammad, so the text on this matter would be ‘dubbed’ down a little.

          • Grimstone

            3.How can a 50+ year old prophet copulate with a nine year old; I think this speaks for itself. There are claims that she was mature for her age. A common argument amongst child rapists is that they claim that she ‘asked for it’. This of course is an interpretation of a sick mind. A nine year old couldn’t possibly ask for or consent to something she has no idea about, nor is physically ready for.
            4.How the number of the beast, 666, is in fact a Islamic holy number, a symbol of Satan in the bible, a symbol of God in the Qur’an; You’ll hear that the bible was doctored after the Qur’an was compiled to discredit the Qur’an. This is not the case as the evidence I’ve seen suggests that the Greeks made the inscription of this number on the original holy texts, and the common argument is that Satan couldn’t resist leaving his mark on his work (i.e. in the Qur’an).

          • Grimstone

            None of the above is intended to offend. Rather, I want to make you aware of what the arguments are so you can focus your fact finding mission. Perhaps you will come across some infallible logic and convince us that, at the very least, Islam can get along with all other religions on earth instead of trying to take over. On this site, you’ll be subjected to abuse I’m sure. Many who visit here will attack Islam at every opportunity. I’m sure some have good reason, but some at least just want to be abusive for abusive sakes. If you can brush the insults aside and try to understand the main points of the argument, then I’m sure your feedback and input would be constructive and a ‘real’ discussion can take place.

            Good luck dude, and hope to see you next year.

          • Esther

            BIG NUB, YOU ARE A PATHETIC , BRAINWASHED MUSLIM.
            THINK FOR YOURSELF MAN.
            I think you know deep down , that there are evil things in Islam.

          • big nub

            esther, youre a pathetic ffi poster who seems to need a new keyboard cos your caps lock is stuck xD

          • Demsci

            I just wanted to react to this part of Big Nub's answer:
            "RE: The Koran (K.4:34) and numerous Sahih hadith legitimise wife-beating.
            did you read the surah? it doesnt say you can hit her like you mean it, it says to hit her lightly so that she understands what you meant, well i dont know how to say it right but its something like that, like when youre child is being naughty and you have to slap him on the bottom? yea something like that "

            It has been brought to our attention by many ex-Muslims, that the word LIGHTLY was NOT in the original text. And for much of 1400 years was not used or practiced. So it was not meant by the writer of the Quran.

            This word was added by translators, from Arabic into English, trying to soften up Islam's message to outsiders and perhaps non-Arab Muslima's with high independence, so as not to discourage them to marry Muslims.

            Now, if Muslims are going to change the Quran, great! But admit it then! But we know that Muslims won't do that and that instead they say that the Quran is the perfect immutable word of God. So they will modify it sneaky when it suits their purposes to deceive when they think they get away with it.

          • Soovey

            I can answer this in one sentence – Muslim/Islamist rioters against Christians and others in Egypt and elsewhere – they were all men. Would you say that they used more of what passed for reason than emotion when they killed and set fire to churches?

        • Grimstone

          “many Xtians are destroying mosque and burning qurans in places where there arent many muslims”

          Hmmm, in Cyprus, the southern Greek side have preserved the mosques, but the Turkish north side have ransacked the churches, stealing every holy symbol because they were made from gold and letting the building deteriorate. Quite sad really, but I’m sure this blade cuts both ways in other countries.

        • wud b apostate

          dear big nub, u dont think that marriage to a 9 year girl by 52 years old man was cultural issue….why did he adopt a pagan culture after he was supposed to be role model for all humans n for all the times to come…..he wud have set up an example n u shud not had to justify it after 1400 years
          why a role model’s lust for sex was so high that besides marrying to 9 women had concubines
          why he had to marry his adopted son’s wife
          why was he obsessed with sex that he had 9 wives n why he made sex without nikkah lawful or halal captive war women for muslim men..
          How those women had willingly consented to get laid with very persons who were killer of their fathers, husband n brothers n family
          when u jot down to answer over aisha pl also ponder on these points also for me..lemme know if am wrong or biased

    • fakeman

      idiot stub
      u muslim scumbags give justification on every muslim atrocital acts

    • Soovey

      Can you give me an example of what Islam does right in the West, to contribute to the wider community for example? Please post links here.

      I am sure that all people born Muslim are not like that, but if they stay in Islam then they become so head messed that they get like that. My main beef with them (apart from the way they treat their women and their belligerence towards people not like them, and their insistence that their benighted way is the only way) is only a very small percentage of Muslims have the guts to speak out against the excesses of Islam. So what's not to judge if the majority range from apathetic and supportive of Muslim violence to psychopathic murderers and not one other Muslim goes on record to condemn their behaviour?

  15. Babs

    Yes, demsci it is, but in my line of work I find interesting the mindset which allows them to blind themselves to any notion that they might possibly be in the wrong. There are, of course, many reasons for this – the lack of critical thinking skills, the lack of the theory of mind which develops in most adequately socialised human beings, whereby they might be able to identify emotionally and in other ways with others (a person with an adquately developed theory of mind would be empathic and unable to abuse in the way that these men have) and which lets them be comfortable among others who don't believe as they do.

    The failure to develop these may come from inadequate social and emotional care during the child's formative years. Muslim children, where they are interacted with at all, are often treated in a very authoritarian manner and what we might call "love" is offered conditionally.

    Muslims are phobic about being shamed, and this is used often to discipline their young along with corporal punishment The ability to experience shame in most normally developed people can be a valuable learning experience – it teaches a person to avoid the activity which led to his being shamed – but, not being able to experience shame fully, being phobic of it, not being able to reflect on their own experiences and learn from them leaves these Muslims woefully backward.

    Because they are unable to analyse their emotions, attribute cause and effect properly or think critically and reflect, it's easier for them to try to lie their way out of trouble. Because they lack a theory of mind which lets them know how others think and perceive them they then get furious if they are not believed.

    Here endeth the lesson :-)

  16. CHUTIYA_SHABEER

    What about a man aged 53 having sex with a girl aged 9?? You've killed your conscience….Sick bastard…

  17. Venu

    Hahaha..this is the most strangest (or should I say silliest) argument that I have even seen. Even taking the points that you mentioned into consideration, they clearly mentioned why they said that way and since they are no longer applicable to current society, no ones really cares to follow. Clearly, they are followed in spirit not in word. However the islamic morons, armed with the verses of an evil manuscript are feasting on the yound girls even now. And it is deplorable to see that there are men still supporting them. And they walk among us!

  18. SONGADH LION

    shabby u sick dog did u curse momad and ala today

  19. Babs

    "..Children must reach ashuddah (full strength and growth) and adulthood: .."

    And yet your prophet had sex with Aysha?

    Did his sock puppet allah make that rule before or after your prophet's paedophilia?

    • jonmc

      OUCH! That's gotta hurt Shabeer! (Nice one Babs.)

      Sex with Aisha at age NINE indeed. Bet he'll say that by some "miracle" she was "all growed up" by nine".

      What do these verses (22:5, 40:67) have to do with marriage? Both are (erroneous) summaries of the human life-stages.

  20. The best thing for the police to do is to catch all the illegals and deport them to their ass-hole countries before they do more harm.

  21. Babs

    At least one Birmingham MP seems to be waking up
    http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/20

  22. As the race is heightening up to elect Egypt’s new president, Christian Copts are favoring Hosni Mubarak-era officials over Islamists to lead the Arab world’s most populous country.

    Read more: http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/05/16/egypt

    Youssef

    • jonmc

      Not usre if that is good or bad, actually.
      I fear that if the Copts favour Mubarak-era officials and those officials lose to the Islamists (which they probably will) then, once in power, the Islamists will take revenge against the Copts for "treachery" to Egypt or some such concoction.

      btw: how is this relevant to the article/thread?

  23. jonmc

    Then implications of these verses is that the "age of full strength" is FORTY years old: "…when he reaches the age of full strength and attains forty years…" that's the only coupling of "ashudaah" to a specific age you've given.
    So if "Children must reach ashuddah (full strength and growth) and adulthood" then no Muslim may marry below the age of FORTY.
    Given that ol'Mo scarely married anyone BELOW that age; either this means that Mo was utterly immoral, or that your argument is wrong.

  24. jonmc

    “How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: THAT SHE KEEPS SILENCE.” (Muslim hadith). That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the marriage is it?
    Perhaps under that Burkha her mouth is taped shut, that's okay isn't it? She kept silent after all.
    Again Abu Dowud hadith (2088) says the same thing. If the girl objects, then the marriage can't go ahead (even though her objection will “dishonour” her family and all that follows from that), but for it to go ahead only SILENCE is required, no “I do”'s needed.

    K.4:9 “Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will”. What has inheritance of a woman (she's only a chattel of course) have to do with marriage?
    Now to be fair, Mo was banning the practice of men getting free-women as part of (e.g.) their dead father's estate, so on this I'll agree that it's a good thing in it's own right, but it is NOTHING to do with “normal” marriage. This point is made even clearer by your Abu Dowud hadith (2084, 2095).

    “Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Consult women about (the marriage of) their daughters.” Note that the (the marriage of) is the translators INTERPOLATION. Thus in Arabic it says nothing about marriage at all.

    “A VIRGIN came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) allowed her to exercise her choice.”
    Firstly, she's a virgin, so no “Nikah” had taken place and what choice was that? The hadith does NOT say.

    Technically, I'd say that Shabeer is right: a Muslima can't be forced to marry against her VOICED objection. But if she remains silent (out of fear or some other reason) then the marriage is valid. Even in the case of the virgin (note: this means she hadn't been Nikah'd – i.e. the “marriage” wasn't consummated) we don't know what her “choice” was. We may infer (reasonably as a matter of fact) that she was allowed to dissolve the engagement and give back her Mahr (I base this on the fact that Mo “married” Aisha at age six, but only “Nikah'd” [i.e. had sex with] her at age nine. Thus prior to the Nikah, Mo and Aisha were “engaged” rather than fully married.)

    • Babs

      Well written and argued jonmc. Islam's misogyny is predicated on women remaining silent about everything and "disappearing" or being "disappeared."

      And as for the rest, there is a very ill-defined distinction between coercion and "freely-given" consent in the matter of Muslim women and marriage. A woman cannot be said to give full consent freely unless she has power and we all know the answer to THAT one boys and girls, don't we?

      All sorts of pressures are brought to bear on Muslim women to make marriages to suit their fathers or their families, and no-one can blame a woman for caving in under the strain. However, to say that she consented freely to such a marriage under such circumstances is nonsensical

  25. patrick

    Mohammed married a child of nine,thereby validating for all time, the violation of children.Mohammed said "her silence means consent"Aisha was six when this was said to Abu Bakr her father,how can a 6 year old know what marriage is, especially to a 54 year old man!

    As Muslims take Mohammed for their role model,what else would you expect from his followers?

    Mohammed said men have a degree over women quran, 2.228, women are deficient in intelligence and religion,and should be obedient to their husbands,who have the right to beat them if they are not.4.34
    If this is not answer enough,the Quran tells Muslims women are only "tilth",likening them to a ploughed field.

  26. CGW

    VICTORY !

    I just heard from the Mayo Clinic:

    Dr. Elhagaly is no longer employed or caring for patients at Mayo Clinic Health System in Albert Lea. We are working with his patients to transition their care to another physician. Because this is a personnel issue, we cannot comment further on Dr. Elhagaly's employment status.

    Female circumcision in children, referred to as female genital mutilation in U.S. legal statutes, is a felony-level child abuse crime. Mayo Clinic strongly opposes the procedure and it has never been performed at any Mayo Clinic facility.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    WE DID IT ! ! ! Thanks for all your help!

    CGW

  27. Gabriella K. Rantau

    In the twonship of Poso in Indonesia a Somali imam who was allowed to teach the Qur'an raped numerous young Muslim girls whose parents entrusted the girls to learn Islam from the imam. Instead the imam, following the example (sunnah) of the prophet of Islam taught them sex and robbed them of their childhood.

    In many Islamic boarding schools in Indonesia the imam use the verses of the Qur'an to get their ways with young, vulnerable Muslim girls, and boys! Since practically all Indonesian Muslims donot undrstand Arabic let alone the qur'anic Arabic they are often fed crap by the imams. They put the fear of the beastly allahin these young girls if they do not submit to their the imams' secual demands.

    Pathetic.

    • Babs

      Worse than pathetic, Gabriella, it's heinous.

      If girls and women were treated like fully fledged human beings by Islam then this imam would be jailed and the keys thrown away or worse.

      The parents of these girls are as culpable of these crimes as the imam.

      The fact is that these are perceived to be lower than cattle and more disposable.

  28. kafirun

    The rapist,child fcuking,camel banging, thief mohammad was a rapist,killer, thug etc.The pisslamic historians have recorded in detail all the actions of this thug mohammad. But the problem is moslems think and act as if the child fcuking is a pious act even today! if these scum bags destroy the vaginas of 5 year olds in islamic sh1t holes, I have no problem.But these pig sh1t moslems want to practice the same even in kafir countries.Look at the twists and turns moslem scum bags take when they support the evil actions of the rapist thug mohammad.
    the old dirt bag was 55 when he was thighing the little 6 year old Aisha and made a grand entry in to her and probably destroyed her internally and mentally! The scum bags even today praise this action of mohammad and keep vomiting the same excuses.Aisha was mature in fact too mature for her age!
    The next excuse.Well thug mohammad had to urgently marry Aisha for allah' order!
    Thug mohammad married her to propagate pisslam( I would think he propagated the syphilis and other bugs!Any way pisslam is as evil and dirty as these organisms causing STD"s)
    Aisha was too advanced for her age
    This was then and then there was no age of consent to dip the stick! As if today moslem scum bags do not try to dip their dirty,bug infected sticks in any hole, even if it is a hole in the wall,. The old geyser said his thoughts and actions hold true for all time to come! The only way moslem scum bags can stick to the dip stick thoughts of pisslam is to rapidly loose their brains.They have indeed lost all their brain tissue due to constant inbreeding.

  29. Esther

    Big nub said: “pedophile or child sex or what ever you called, wasnt a problem back then”.
    You know very well that the Quran is the word of your god Allah. And the word of Allah is therefore valid for ALL times. The Quran says that Mohammed is your perfect role-model ( al Insan al Kamil).
    So you MUST follow this man as much as you can. Raping little girls is one of the examples Mohammed gave you, just as slave-trading, murdering innocent people, robbery , You know it : THE CHALLENGE OF ALI SINA !!!
    So if you don't do thar, you are not a "GOOD" muslim ; then you are a muslim-hypocrite!

  30. Julia

    Big nub: "have you ever heard the term where women use more of her feelings than her logic and men use more their logic than his feelings? its there written in my year 11 biology book ".
    It must be a MUSLIM-BIOLOGY book. Is it perhaps the Quran itself ? ( The SPERM of men AND WOMEN (!) comes from between the backbone and the ribs !? Good lord! ).
    Well I hope for you that your muslim FEMALE doctors , engineers, scientists etc. use their logic more then their feelings. ;-)
    Or are muslim TOO illogical to have such professions ? ;-)
    SHAME ON YOU , BACKWARD MUSLIM !!!

  31. Abdullah taqayya

    The Quran and hadiths very clear on this. There is not age limit on women. These men are simply practising there religion. Oh course they can do it from jail too.

  32. babu

    Is it not the time to expel Miah's family back to Bangadesh and revoke their citizenship which is a privledge and not a RIGHT.Britain is the most humane country to live in. The Muslim SNAKES would never appreciate that.

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