If You Convert You Die
By: Nonie Darwish
From: FrontPageMagazine.com
Very few people in the West know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that through the dominant media, such as CNN, Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. The result is that Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy of how to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While Americans get ridiculed for being “Islamophobes,” the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening.
Nagla Al-Imam
For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist, Nagla Al Imam, recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind, where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws from within the Muslim world.
Ms. Al Imam’s incredible courage was on display in an internet chat room, where she announced that she is not afraid, will stand up for the human rights of apostates and refuses to leave her homeland, Egypt. This was immediately followed by attacks and calls (‘fatwas’) for death of the 36 year-old graduate of Al Azhar Islamic University.
Egyptian media not only reported the threat but also participated in the attacks. Ms. Al Imam was literally entrapped by a TV station ‘Al Mihwar’ with the pretext of inviting her for an interview. Upon arrival to the TV studio she was told the show she was to appear on was cancelled. She was then taken forcibly to a room where she was held against her will for hours inside the studio. She was assaulted, threatened and insulted by several people. She was able to escape, and went to her internet chat room telling the world what happened and said she will demand protection from the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
Such action is common not only against apostates but anyone who deviates from the dictates of Islam or demands reform. Many Muslim journalists, intellectuals and feminists who consider themselves Muslims but are critical of Sharia are often intimidated, threatened or even killed for the slightest independent views using the apostasy card to keep them quiet.
Dr. Sayed El Qemany
Another recent case in Egypt is that of a brilliant intellectual by the name of Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany. He was recently accused of apostasy even though he denied it on TV and insisted he is still a Muslim. But fatwas of death were immediately issued against him. Mr. El Qemany recently wrote the following:
“I was granted the State Award for Social Sciences, on June 25th 2009. The hard-line radical militant groups considered that the state has adopted this intellectual secular trend
officially, infuriating the mentioned group which called on the State to withdraw the prize with the declaration of my defection from Islam and excommunication which means in our country, I could be slain; any citizen is allowed to kill me and be awarded by God in Paradise. The following parties have participated in the statements of atonement:
1 – Al-Azhar Scholars Front headed by Yahya Ismail Habloush, which issued the first statement of atonement on July 10, 2009.
2 – The Islamic Group (condemned terrorist group) issued a statement of atonement on July 10, 2009.
3 – The Muslim Brotherhood hailed the atonement, and were presented at the parliament by Hamdi Hassan requesting the withdrawal of the award and the declaration of religious-defection and excommunication on July 7, 2009. The Muslim Brotherhood also declared my excommunication on Mohwar Channel on July 11, 2009 and on Al Faraeen Channel on July 13, 2009.
4 – The Salafi (Fundamentalist) Group (condemned terrorist group) dedicated its Internet site named “The Egyptians” for excommunicating me and incitements to kill me, since the date of obtaining the prize until today.
5 – Al Nas channel, which represents the theoretical side of bloody terrorism which declared excommunication and demanded “all citizens who can” to kill me immediately, on July 24 and 25, 2009.
6 – The Hisbah Sheikh Youssef Al Badri in Egypt declared on the channel “ON TV” on July 3, 2009 that I have cursed God and the Prophet Mohammad in my books even though I have challenged him and others to refer to a single text written by me where such claims were made. Due to this proclamation, he has issued an incitement to kill me.
7 – A member of the Al-Azhar scholars, Sheikh Mohammed El Berry, on Mihwar TV Channel on July 11, 2009 announced my atonement as he also said that he did not read any of my writings since he does not read “garbage”. He repeated the same words on the channel “ON TV” on July 22, 2009.
8 – Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the former Chairman of the “State Religious Affairs Advisory Board”, issued a statement declaring my infidelity and calling for slaying me for “insulting the Prophet of Islam, the God of Islam” on July 24, 2009.
9 – The Sheiks of more than 5000 mosques on Friday prayers on July 24, 2009 declared the incitement to kill me, especially in my hometown, which led to the rampage against my family and relatives, and that could possibly evolve to some serious consequences in the coming weeks.
Due to the above, I call upon the conscience of all humanity in the free world to come to me and my children’s rescue by providing moral support and the condemnation and denunciation of the radical thinking with quick solutions to save us from the danger that is luring around us. This is a distress call to all bodies and individuals. A call to the consciences of every free individual in the world.
Signed: Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany- Researcher.”
In spite of the cover up, this is perhaps the first time in the history of Islam that Muslims finally have access to the truth about their own religion, thanks to the Internet and satellite dishes (invented by infidels). There are daily news reports of heart-broken Muslims who say they cannot believe what is written in Muslim scriptures and say that Muslims have been living under the greatest lie in human history. Others simply deny and say that it can’t be so. While Saudi Arabia is spending billions to Islamize the West, many Muslim prisoners of Islamic submission are dying or leaving the religion quietly.
The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do it in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their own religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia also states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not murderers and therefore are not to be punished. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals are encouraged to take matters into their own hands.
The end result is a chaotic society where everything happens behind closed doors but at a very heavy price to interpersonal relationships. Fear and distrust of others exists in all Muslim societies. Muslims are not just distrustful of the West, but they are distrustful of one another. In Muslim society, people are often more afraid of their neighbors and family members than of the police. Thus, we see husbands or fathers pressured to apply Sharia by killing an adulterous wife or daughter, or a perfect stranger participate in the killing of an apostate in the public square. Very few get arrested or punished for such crimes across the Muslim world. The ingenious Sharia uses vigilante street justice to bring about Islamic submission. That is why civil unrest and honor crimes go wherever Islam goes. The power of Islam comes from turning Muslim against Muslim — with a reward in heaven.
The above two examples of Islamic tyranny are not unique to Egypt, but exist in all Muslim countries. Islamic tyranny is encapsulated in a law that some Muslims claim to be their religious right in America. Many American citizens who left Islam are living in constant fear from Islamist individuals and groups right here, in the land of the free and home of the brave. I am one of them.
Nonie Darwish is an American of Arab/Muslim origin. A freelance writer and public speaker, she runs the website www.ArabsForIsrael.com. Her new book is Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law.
Kabirlaw:
The Hadith you gave in your post refer to the “Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state”. In other words to dhimmis, those “people of the book” who have paid the “Jizya out of hand and feel themselves humiliated”.
In similar vein most, if not all, of your Koranic quotes do not necessarily refer to apostates from Islam. the majority seem to refer to the Pagan Arabs who heard Mo’s preaching but rejected him. this can be extended to those of other faiths who also choose to ignore the message of Islam, rather than those who are Muslim and then wish to leave Islam.
Of all your verses in your first post only 64:12 “Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.” sounds as though it applies to apostates – but even this is a matter of interpretation.
You wrote: “I say this because the Muslims told Abu Sufyan “There is no compulsion in religion” and this meeting with Abu Sufyan took place right towards the end of Muhammad’s (SAW) life.”
Correct me if I am wrong: Abu Sufyan was the leader of the Meccan Pagans, who finally converted after the fall of Mecca. If this is so, then this refers to the fact the the Muslims would not force Abu Sofyan INTO Islam and not to apostasy. After Abu Sofyan was Pagan, so he couldn’t be an apostate from Islam.
London Spirit:
You are quite right, there isn’t a single verse in the Koran that says “kill the apostates”.
this then begs the question (stated by several contributors): Why do the four main schools of Fiqh make this the penalty for apostasy?
Neither do the verses you quote refer to apostates – they refer to those who are not Muslims and who will not join Islam, this becomes clearer on a comparison of several (6) translations.
I tend to agree with you that Christianity (once it was conflated with secular power systems) took a long, long time to finally renounce all violence towards apostates etc and I concur that Islam “must be given that same chance to develop to that stage” [enlightenment]. The problem is that with modern weaponry available Islam’s progress will be marked in far bloodier footsteps. (e.g. last year more people died in Islamic violence than did in 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition (Wiki and Stats from ROP)
You also quoted: ” ‘not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament).’ So every law that is written in the old testament should be followed. Look how jesus emphasied it not even the smallest letter should dissapear.”
Unfortunately in your ‘exegesis’ (above) you omitted the final phrase of this verse “…until everything is accomplished.”
Jesus “accomplished everything” in his death and resurrection. The New Covenant replaces (abrogates, if you prefer) the old. Jesus also rejected other laws and in particular he (as Marie said) attacked the “Jews” (=Jewish Authorities) for putting the traditions (Mishnah – I think) above the Commandments.
You then refer to the first two of the “Ten Commandments” and claim that they are “followed more by muslims than by christians”.
This is odd since you refer to the God of the Ten Commandments as YHWH, yet I thought Muslims worshipped il-Alah “the god” (or Allah). If Mo really worshipped YHWH, why did he not say “There is no God but YHWH…”? Thus, arguably, Muslims do not worship YHWH.
In your quote of the second commandment you gave a very partial quote. The import of this commandment is not to worship “graven images”. Making them for decoration or even (by a stretch I’ll admit) veneration is not explicitly forbidden.
I’d also remind you that at various periods in Islamic history Islamic Art allowed representational pictures of birds, animals and plants.
Marie answers your next points about the name “christian” and his sonship well.
You are right in that Jesus never said “Worship me”, however he did accept worship on several occasions, something no ‘mere’ prophet would do surely?
With regard to Jesus being a prophet: I think some Christians are a bit over-defensive about this.
Prophethood has two elements, to “forth-tell” and to “foretell”. Jesus does both, so he is prophet. Christians argue he is the greatest of all prophets, whose coming was foretold “by all the [Jewish] prophets”. But he was also more, he was “God with us” or “Emmanuel” as Isaiah calls him (amongst other names).
Your difficulty here LS, is that if you believe (as Mo told you to) in “all the prophets”, you must believe what Isaiah wrote and Jesus who fulfills his (Isaiah’s) phrophecy is therefore “God with us”, or else you call one of God’s prophets a liar.
Marie is also right in that Jesus did not acknowledge his prophethood when questioning his disciples, instead he pressed them beyond that point into full realisation of his Sonship. A point she makes well.
You then quote: mathhew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Now, I don’t know what translation of hte Bible you use, but I haven’t found one that uses the phrase “you who practice lawlessness”. The translations I have are “all evil-doers” NJB, NRSV, “you wicked people” GNB, “ye that work iniquity” KJV.
The nearest I’ve managed to find is “you subverters of the law.” ASV
Even allowing your translation, LS, what “law” is being referred to here? Marie has already made the point about various meanings of “law” in the NT, so I’ll not re-hash that.
Now, the context here is clearly eschatological. Given that the “law” of the NT abrogates that of the OT, then it is NT law, not the Mosaic, that Jesus refers to here. This point is better demonstrated by all the other translations I’ve quoted.
then you say: “…i do not want jesus in the next life to say to me that he doesnt know me and say to me that i practise lawlessness.”
Interesting!
Are you saying that it is important for you to be known by and thus know Jesus and that he will judge you, LS? (I think you could have put yourself on some shaky theological ground here, LS!)
Oops! Erratum in last post:
I wrote “After Abu Sofyan was Pagan, so he couldn’t be an apostate from Islam.”
I meant ” Abu Sofyan …”
Sorry, I made a non-sense of my own post!
That coward londo spirtus keep running from my questions and yet he boasted like the usual gorillas in the zoo. Pathetic. Muslim are all the same.
My African brothers, what is wrong with you? You see what Westerners are having and what life style they are living and you will do the same. Allah st gave you patience and brain to think and realize that it is better to suffer in this short life and be generously awarded in a hereafter. But some of you who do not believe in Allah st would like other people to follow you on this road of self-destruction. It will not happen. Most brothers and sisters from Africa are a good Muslims and they will be reworded when the time comes, but you traitors, you will get your share of punishment.
We have to realize one thing. People who convert from Islam to other faiths are not doing it because they are strong believers but it is opposite, they do that for variety of interests. There conversion has nothing to do with believe in Allah st. Those people simple do not believe in existence of the God.
Still debating over the killing of the apostates in Islam ? Why ?
Reality is overwhelming and coming from all corners of the world. Beside… Muslims say don’t listen to Ali Sina , Robert Spencer, Nagla Al-Imam, and Nonie Darwish. No !!! Instead go to scholars of Islam, if possible to Al Ahzar ones and they will set you straight ! They did, alright… In Islam apostates and those accused of blasphemy must be killed. And they, the sholars, are trying to get Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany killed.
Why do you bother with London Spirit and Kirbylaw ? These two practice philosophy not Islam.
“Allah st gave you patience and brain to think and realize that it is better to suffer in this short life and be generously awarded in a hereafter.”
Oh, do you mean banging the houris or having 28 young boys??? Funny to hear the word “brain” from you.
I gave 3 categories of orders and no muslim respond to it. Hah, figures
I have already read detail scripts of Ali Sina and Mark A Gabriel carefully, in my opinion these scripts are very very comprehensive! If their contains are correct and fair – and I believe so based on the background of publisher- with all logical consciousness, I think that quran / islam is a kind of threat or total confusion which created by obsessed insane human being. You all guys go reading for them, then no need to argue here any more !!!
The laws of nature have come back to restore equilibrium on earth. There are too many inhabitants on earth and we need to balance the scales. If not, there will be millions dying of starvation.
The muslims are helping in this balance. If they push the rest of the world to a point where they cannot take it anymore all the muslim countries will be obliterated from this earth. Sadly even the good countries will suffer.
Time will tell….
To Kafur, Logical Explanation should not be evaluated with any basis of facts. Sharia Laws are laws implemented against the laws of GOD. Pretty much the same with other countries too. I’m not against MUSLIMS, I LOVE THEM as GOD Loves us. BUT the problem raised here is about people are the one who does the Wrath of GOD for Him.
ISLAM is like merely wide and huge FRATERNITY ORGANIZATION in the world. We Non-Muslims see ISLAM as a religion of HATE. We do not see PEACE.
[...] If You Convert You Die | Faithfreedom.org [...]
[...] If You Convert You Die | Faithfreedom.org [...]
[...] If You Convert You Die | Faithfreedom.org [...]