The Journey of a Pakistani from a Muslim to an Ex-Muslim

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to Mr JAH #1

You simply cannot accept the bitter truth of people leaving Islam due to its flaws and loopholes right? Muslims generally accepted him to be "superman", 1400 years of Islamic scholarship testified to this. Your recent innovation is nothing but apologetic excuse. The Muslims regarded him as Ma'shum or Sinless, in other words, infallible. As for saviour, being Intercessor on the day of judgment is a kind of saviour of hell fire. Read this:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "A man keeps on asking others for
something till he comes on the Day of Resurrection without
any piece of flesh on his face." The Prophet added, "On the
Day of Resurrection, the Sun will come near (to, the people) to
such an extent that the sweat will reach up to the middle of the
ears, so, when all the people are in that state, they will ask
Adam for help, and then Moses, and then Muhammad
(p.b.u.h)." The sub-narrator added "Muhammad will
intercede with Allah to judge amongst the people. He will
proceed on till he will hold the ring of the door (of Paradise)
and then Allah will exalt him to Maqam Mahmud (the
privilege of intercession, etc.). And all the people of the
gathering will send their praises to Allah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari,Volume 2, Book 24, Number 553)

Combine with this:

No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those
for whom He has granted permission. So far (is this the
case) that, when terror is removed from their hearts (at the
Day of Judgment, then) will they say, ‘what is it that your
Lord commanded?’ they will say, ‘That which is true and just;
and He is the Most High Most Great’. (34:23)

Mr JAH, Muslims do believe in the saviour concept and do not hypocritically denied this. Islam plagiarised this concept from the Christianity concept of salvation and saviour.

The "superman" argument is this:

Bukhari Vol.7 Book.62 Number.6
Narrated Anas: The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.

Bukhari Vol.1 Book.6, Number.299
'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."

The Muslims believed that he is the strongest man in every respect, the strength of 40 men were endowed to him.

So Mr JAH, quit denying something as obvious as the sun, do you want to paste the sun with sticky mud?

Humanity is but one family. :)

#1 jAH cANT YOU SEE mUHAMMAD WAS A PEDOPHILE, LIAR, AND YOU MUST DO THIS TOO. mUSLIMS MUST FOLLOW MO. ISLAM GIVES YOU A CONSCIOUS FREE OF EVIL DOINGS. MO HAD A CONVENIENT VISION TO DO BAD. HE MADE THIS MESS UP. ALLAH WAS/IS THE DEVIL SURA 3:54.

Raisin Head, avoid using upper case letters when posting.

>Like every Muslim, I had a great reverence and adoration for Muhammad. To me, he was a hero, a superman, the only savior, infallible, protector, merciful, and the most remarkable personality on earth that can never be compared to anyone else.

Although Muslims revere Prophet Muhammad the most yet no Muslim ever believe that he is a superman, the savior, infallible, protector, etc.!!!

>I could never dare to conjecture that Muhammad could ever commit sins or do mistakes.

You have never read the Quran then (11:35, 46:9, 36:54, 4:85, 40:17, 21:47, 36:54, 2:281, 7:29, 16:111, 17:13-15, 20:134-135)!

Reply to JAH from M A Khan

You said "You have never read the Quran then (11:35, 46:9, 36:54, 4:85, 40:17, 21:47, 36:54, 2:281, 7:29, 16:111, 17:13-15, 20:134-135)!"

I knew that Quran also asserts that Nasty Muhammad was sinner and corrupt and verses are present in the Quran.

In spite of, the sins of Muhammed mentioned in Quran, if you verbally say this to any muslim in pakistan that Muhammad was sinner, you will never see the next day in your life...

I hope this reply would be sufficient for you!

nothing more to say.

#5 I agree. Muslims become god. No one has the right to take a life that only god can give. Muslims become above allah. Allah has done nothing ever. Muhammad knew that so he becAME allah's mouthpiece like the snake in the Garden of Eden when the greatest deceiver used it to deceive Eve. Deception worked then and now. The same spirit involved then and now worked his magic. A snake was used then and the snake was used in the 7th century, causing much havoc and mischief. Muslims are making Christians and all other non-Muslims out of Pakistan. Then if you are not the right kind of Muslim, OUT YOU GO.

This is classical text critic...... I,m a bachelor in xianty textcritic and I can tell you one thing. You will never convince the belivers, they are brainwashed

tarzan wrote:

"This is classical text critic…… I,m a bachelor in xianty textcritic and I can tell you one thing. You will never convince the belivers, they are brainwashed"

Agreed. You can look at the muslims (JAHanam, Kebirlewd) posting here. Nothing but rubbish and big talk.

Reply to Kabirlaw, from M.A.Khan

You wrote "...Ali Sina’s hearty efforts have resulted in quite a few people being convinced by him. Aren’t they’re supposed to be many ex-muslims on this site?"

To reply to your question, it is not Ali Sina, in fact, who converted muslims to ex-muslims, but those who were biographers of Islam and Muhammad, such as, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sad, Jarir Tabri, some ahadiths of Bukhari, and the most important the contradictions in Quran, forced muslims to leave Islam. Ali Sina only printed their proves written by those Islamic Scholars. Those proves were kept hidden from many muslims by their parents, friends, relatives, and most of al, their Mullahs (muslim preists).

I hope this will help to your question.

"Thus, around the age of 20, I started to offer prayers, not only five times a day, but also extra nawafil (extra prayers that are not compulsory), just being greedy to have more hoors in jannat. I believed that the more we pray the prettier our hoors will be."

This is one of the things I have been trying to say, Islam promotes greed. Prayer is a form of communication between God and his followers, not a way to get something extra.

Its really shameless for muslims after visiting this site and others instead of reasonig with valid points , just remain stubborn. They should understand that they have been indoctrinated heavily.
Islam is the biggest cause of problem in society.

Its really surprising what is in Mohammed that Muslims still consider him nicely while his name should be cursed.

to Ms Marie #11

Agreed totally. In Islam, prayer has been instituted in such a way that everybody attempt to accumulate the Thawab or blessing by praying more and more. Since the prayer is in a language that is alien to most Muslims, Arabic, they end up exhausted themselves rather than acquiring any fruitful benefit.

The 5 daily prayer of Namaaz or Salaat is in Arabic and the most orthodox position among the classical Islamic scholars were that the Friday preaching must be in Arabic. It was only recently ( 100 years ago till now), that they soften the ruling and allowed the preaching to be in local language.

Is this an obvious evidence of Arabic Imperialism in practice?

Humanity is but one family. :)

I sort of think that Islam is like Hotel California. You can check out but never leave. Well congratulations Mr Kahn for actually escaping. You managed it. I will try to use your arguments when I speak to Muslims but I am not optimistic. The rationale, which you know better than I, is that given the basic assumption everything else follows. That assumption is that the Quran is true, that Islam is true, that Allah is real and therefore Mohammed is the best of all examples.

Given these assumptions, everything you say in your article can be explained/explained away. E.g. one Muslim told me the reason for the massacre of Banu Quraiza was that Mohammed had agreed to follow the verdict of one his soldiers who was also accepted by the Banu Quraiza. So both parties agreed to abide by this person’s decision. When the harsh verdict was spoken, Mohammed as a man of his word and full of integrity could not do otherwise but abide by the decision.

So the big assumption here is that Mohammed is without fault so everything he did and said can be rationalised. Because there is no objective criteria for judgement there is no way out of Hotel California!

Reply to Kinana from M.A.Khan

Hotel California is also one of my favourite song and I usuall listen after studying islam in detail, but anyways...

You have given the incorrect example and misunderstood the depth of Hotel California and tried to compare it with Islam. To me, I compare Islam with the gangs of Mafia, where you can enter with your own feet, but only you leave when their memebers carrying you on their shoulders.

you wrote "both parties agreed to abide by this person’s decision. When the harsh verdict was spoken, Mohammed as a man of his word and full of integrity could not do otherwise but abide by the decision."

The problem with you muslims is that you do not read and search entire story but you throw what you hear from anyone without any scrutiny.

Muhammed, in fact, had clashed with two similar tribes earlier--Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Al-Nadir. However, in their case, the Prophet let them go into exile.

All three tribes are accused of breaking their treaties. If Muhammad would have acted on the basis of law from God he would have judged them consistently. We see that "circumstances" played a much more important role in determining the punishment for these tribes. If it was right to let them go, why did he not let the Banu Qurayza go into exile? If it was right to execute them, why did he give in to `Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul and let him prevent the execution of the judgment of God? No true prophet would give in to a misguided companion who wants to stop God's righteous decree. This inconsistency shows that Muhammad was guided chiefly by his own desires of vengeance against those who would not accept him as a messenger from God rather than by a law of consistent justice as it comes from God. The judgement is about offending Muhammad, not about offending God, and Muhammad decided according to expediency.

So I hope this reply will more convincing for you. If you still dont understand this so let me know I will present the entire event that happened with banu Quraiza in actual.

And yes, in the last, Hotel California is too big for Islam, she don't like Muhammad!!!

To xyz (M.A. Khan) No: 9

You say:

To reply to your question, it is not Ali Sina, in fact, who converted muslims to ex-muslims, but those who were biographers of Islam and Muhammad, such as, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sad, Jarir Tabri, some ahadiths of Bukhari, and the most important the contradictions in Quran, forced muslims to leave Islam. Ali Sina only printed their proves written by those Islamic Scholars. Those proves were kept hidden from many muslims by their parents, friends, relatives, and most of al, their Mullahs (muslim preists).

I hope this will help to your question.

I say: If you read what I wrote properly you will no doubt come to the realisation that I did not ask any such question to which you have furnished this reply. I made a statement to a person who was despairing of getting Muslims to leave Islam (kinda like a figure of speech). The actual question was "Arent they're supposed to be many ex-Muslims on this site". It was kinda like a confidence booster for yer, sorry to disappoint.

And oh yeah. My parents, friends, relatives and most of all teacher did not keep Islam hidden from me.

I hope that will go some way in clearing your head.

Kabirlaw:

A country who believes in true Secularism should deny residence permit to a person as long as his / her religion disregard other religions and show intolerance towards them as this type of thinking goes against the Secular constitution or law. We have seen in recent past that public expressions against a religion have been described as a crime and responsible persons have been jailed.

Before allowing a Muslim to live in a secular country, he should be asked in writing if he believes in Koran / Islam, if answer is yes than it simply means that he also believes in discrimination and intolerance towards other faiths and thus should be denied residence-ship to live in a secular country.
(A Mafia and its supporters, both are criminals)

to Mr Kabirlaw #16

You said: And oh yeah. My parents, friends, relatives and most of all teacher did not keep Islam hidden from me.

Of course they dont keep Islam hidden from you or else you will not be a Muslim. But, the one that was concealed from you are the despicable contents in the Islamic Literatures such as hadith and Siraa that narrated the personal life of Prophet Muhammad. Your parents, friends and relatives are excused as they may genuinely unaware of them but your TEACHERS are accountable and responsible for hiding those stories.

I do not know myself about Aisha cleaning the semen from the Prophet's clothes using her nails untill I read the Hadith books myself, but at that time I didnt feel pang of conscience at all. We dont hear all these during the Islamic preaching. So, who to blame?

As I always say, Islam is a 1400 years of lie, enough is enough. This fraudulent religion must end now for the benefit of humanity. It's not antidote of morality, it's not cure for the present ill of the society, it's not saviour of human from hell fire, it's not a blessing upon mankind. Islam is misery, controversy, and asinity. The 1430 years history of Islam testify to this fact.

Humanity is but one family. :)

You people are stricter than Muslims when it comes to sexual relations.

Avoid multiple posts when you can do with a single post

I fail to understand as to why someone would be so interested to know how someone's wife wipes off his semen. Only someone really sick would want to know about someone's sexual relations.

#19 You said,
I have been told of that hadith by Muslim teachers when they were explaining the Prophets life and relationships. You see kenmirzz, the Prophet Muhammad was a human being with human desires. Muhammad never claimed to be divine. So he did things all humans do except where it came to instructions on religious practice whereby he was inspired by God.
Why would god choose a man like Mohammad who was after women, wealth and power , In hadith , it says he murdered 900 Jews in a day. So, you can not even call him a normal human being ( Sub human - animal) . if God choose a man like Moh to deliver a message , that god must be a nut case. Or is it a god ?

#25 To kabirlaw,

:) , for 40 years he lived like a normal human being - but after he was chosen by god he started killing , Having 10 wifes , raping , looting and doing all evil things . Was he inspired by god or some evil spirit. Tell me one thing why did god (evil spirit) choose Mohammed , and it declared, he was the last prophet and no more prophets in future.? Jesus came 2000 yrs back , after that ,1400 yrs back Moh came, So god changed his mind within 600 yrs and brought New prophet. ( I don't know how many prophets came before Jesus) . So your god doesn't have a steady mind. Why, god always chose men from Middle east. and what they(except Jesus) did was Killing other people. GET LIFE MAN. Stop defending the evil cult.(13422 - you know ,what is this no?? - No of terror Attacks by Muslims after 9/11, before 9/11-----> 13422000000 :( )

By your logic, Can we( kafirs) take that stand and kill all Muslims in the world , so that we will not be exterminated ?.

kabirlaw,

The wars and slavery you mention were not done in the name of God. We fight secular wars, not religious wars. You are equivocating.

#23 to Kabirlaw,
You wrote "He was a Prophet of God".

How do you know Muhammad was truly prophet of God or allah?

#19 to Kabirlaw
you wrote "Muhammad’s life during prophethood is the most documented than any other prophet in world history".

One thing we all know, when some one do crime or involved in indecent activities, either in past or in present time, it doesnt matter, are always highlighted and publicized. here i give you an example!!

Abdullah ibn Abu al Sarh who once converted to Islam and wrote down the revelation for Muhammad. It is hardly surprising that Muhammad sought his demise. The unfortunate renegade had one source of hope, however. He was the foster-brother of Uthman, later to become the third caliph. Uthman hid him. Then later, Uthman brought him to Muhammad and pleaded for clemency. It was only after some time had lapsed, while all sat in tense silence, that Muhammad duly pardoned the offender.

Ibn Ishaq proceeds:
When Uthman had left he said to his companions who were sitting around him, "I kept silent so that one of you might get up and strike off his head!" One of the Ansar said, "Then why didn't you give me a sign, O Apostle of God?" He answered that a prophet does not kill by pointing. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah, p. 550).

I want to know, a prophet of god who do nothing but to execute the law of god, how come on earth, the God's will, to kill Abu al Sarh in the first place, subdued by an ordinary man?

Is this man you call a prophet? Prophet is an idea, considered by mass, a personality whose words and orders can never be changed, no matter whatsoever. When he intend something, it must be done and no power has right to change it.
despite of this, as i mentioned in my artical, that I do not believe in any prophet or prophets neither i believe in God.

And now you will see in the future, that Muhammad and Islam are the most critisized than any other prophet in world history

to Mr Kabirlaw #19

You said: I have been told of that hadith by Muslim teachers when they were explaining the Prophets life and relationships. You see kenmirzz, the Prophet Muhammad was a human being with human desires. Muhammad never claimed to be divine. So he did things all humans do except where it came to instructions on religious practice whereby he was inspired by God.

Mr Kabirlaw, I know exactly that you are going to reply in this way. As for Muhammad never claim to be divine, that's a lie pal. The Quranic verse purported even God and Angels send blessing on him, combine this verse with the hadiths that he uttered in conjunction with his position as the best Arab, best Quraisy tribe and best Hashimite family, it made perfect sense that Muhammad did claim specialty. A Muslim who prayed Salaat ( 5 daily prayers) without sending blessing on him, the prayer will be nullified. It's not a direct claim to divinity but indirectly but any thinking human will come to similar conclusion.

You said: The fact that even these most intimate and minutest of details have been recorded testifies to the fact that Muhammad’s life during prophethood is the most documented than any other prophet in world history.

Well pal, you make it look good. The details record of someone does not signify superiority, but it does indicate popularity.

You said: Now there is nothing sinister in this hadith, it is human, thats all. Unless of course you think intimate sexual relations with your wife and semen is disgusting, improper and devilish! The hadith captures a moment of intimacy between man and wife. This is because the Muslims love Muhammad so much they wanted to know everything and anything about him. Be honest with yourself, if you are married and your wife touched your semen is she or you a devil or impostor. Talk sense, thats all I ask, talk sense.

Whatever intimate moment that occur between a man and his wife is a secret that must not be divulged by anyone to anyone. Mr Kabirlaw, you failed to convince me on the significant aspects of the mentioned hadith with regards to the moral aspect it implied. Moreover, age of Aisha when doing the act was also something left to ponder on. I am talking sense pal. What do you think of all those erotic literature that narrate the minutest detail about sexual relationship? Why do you apply a double faced policy and twisted moral relativism whenever Muhammad is involved? For him, he was a prophet, thus, a big OK, but for others, a big KO.

Mr Kabirlaw, the problem with Muslim mentality is this contradictory thought. The moment when Muhammad comes to the picture, all sort of moral obligation and decency are sort of expatiated from him. He is exempted to follow rules like normal human, he can marry many more, he can keep concubines, he can launch a night raid, everything is justified.

You know Mr Kabirlaw, when Ghengiz Khan slaughtered all the adult Tatar tribe, he kept two beautiful women as his concubine. Muhammad did the same when he slaughtered adult Jewish tribe and kept Safiyya Bint Huyay for himself. Now, why are you applying different set of standards for Muhammad? I give you this example in order to extract some sense out of your brain pal.

Humanity is but one family. :)

to Mr Kabirlaw #30

You said: 1) My first point is that there is nothing demonic about the hadith in question. It is quite normal. And I believe, in a way, you all agree, so you feel let down because you cant use it anymore to attack Muhammad.

That's what you think pal. We are world's apart in our approach. You have no problem with the hadith but I do. In order to subject the hadith to a morality test, we have to agree upon a standardization gauge. Do me a favour and tell your father or mother that you have a friend who is 55 years old but his wife is 10, this wife of your friend used her nail to clean off the traces of semen or sperm on your friend's clothes before using the clothes for prayer. I just want to know their response and comment.

You said: (2), too long to quote.

I do not admit defeat, not just yet. In order to know the reason for the narration of the mentioned hadith, we must look into the psychology of Aisha, the main initiator of the hadith. A beautiful woman such as Aisha who had to assume the title of widow at such young age, and forever remain so, will surely have definite impact on her life. Please combine this hadith with the one that she narrated about adult suckling, then you should comprehend about her psychology better.

You said: (3)

In order to verify whether a person's claim to be a man of God, a prophet, we subjected his claim to close scrutiny with critical evaluation. Thus, his lifestyles and utterances recorded by his close followers are our test speciment. The details of those records are not significant aspect in itself and will not clouded our judgmental analysis of him. We are now putting the hadith into thorough examination, not the details frequency of the records. You are obviously playing with Argumentum ad numerum while the Muslims in general was applying Anecdotal evidence.

You said: (4)

When I draw the line of comparison between the two conqueror, bear in mind that there was little difference especially in the "massacre" and "reserving concubine" issues. Since Mr Kabirlaw believed in your own version of the Bani Quraiza massacre story, we do both agreed that the consequences were all those adult male who have grown pubic hair were brutally massacred and their corpses thrown into the trench, am i right? I am testing your conscience to see where your so called missing compassion concealed. Mr Kabirlaw, do you know at what age the pubic hair of a male appeared? It grows starting from 9 year old, or 10 year old. But normally at 11 age, most have already grown a few pubic hair. THEREFORE, even small kids that have not reached puberty were ruthlessly massacred by beheading. IS THIS THE CONDUCT OF YOUR PROPHET OF MERCY?

You said: the last paragraph

Avoid Tu Quoqe logical fallacy ok, Mr Kabirlaw. I am not a Jew or Christian but an Ex Muslim. Why should I go out of my own way and attacked the Jewish and Christian faith that I never associated with? In your desperate attempt to whitewash Muhammad, you unleash your dissatisfaction towards the contents of Old Testament? Is this what you got pal? I have nothing to do with this book. I am a freethinker. Try to criticize freethinking philosophy and I will strike back. As for Jewish and Christian scriptures, I believe that Moses was a myth.

Humanity is but one family. :)

Kabirlaw wrote:

Now contrast that with the biblical prophets massacres and battles, whereby Moses and the Israelites killed, massacred, raped, ravaged millions, yes, millions! b

Millions? Tell me Kabirlaw where did you get that number? Please site the sources and the websites where you got the info from.

kenmirzz wrote:

Avoid Tu Quoqe logical fallacy ok, Mr Kabirlaw. I am not a Jew or Christian but an Ex Muslim. Why should I go out of my own way and attacked the Jewish and Christian faith that I never associated with? In your desperate attempt to whitewash Muhammad, you unleash your dissatisfaction towards the contents of Old Testament? Is this what you got pal? I have nothing to do with this book. I am a freethinker. Try to criticize freethinking philosophy and I will strike back. As for Jewish and Christian scriptures, I believe that Moses was a myth.

There is no evidence to prove Moses did exist. We know the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptian and they did live out in the desert, but other then that there is no concrete evidence of Moses existence. It is purely a matter of faith.

Reply to Marie from M.A.Khan

you wrote "There is no evidence to prove Moses did exist. We know the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptian and they did live out in the desert, but other then that there is no concrete evidence of Moses existence. It is purely a matter of faith."

This is why I say Quran is a lie Book, without any verified evidences. Stories are mentioned that were never seen before. This was a good tactic of Muhammad. Thus, this proves, that Quran and Muhammad both were liars.

This is the same case with Jesus. It is said that Jesus also did not exist but it was something mystery that was built on his behalf.

Acharya is an archaeologist, historian, and her profound research has really opened the eyes who were in dark deception. Sites are as follows:

Sun of God? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-kvw1fYXs

http://www.truthbeknown.com/

Have a nice time

All this muslim is talking about are BS. Now they started to attack moses aka musa (islam). Moses (no evidence if he exist or not)) killed this and that, raped this and that, killed millions...bla...bla..bla (no evidence). So boring, always pointing their finger to others. Childis mentality. Who care about moses!!! he's finished, noone are following him. But you muslims are following the same sick conqueror up until now. Oh, i forget, your brain is washed by islamic sh1t, isn't it? hhmmm, no wonder you will never ever forever understand this.

Yeah, I agree so with Kenmirzz and Mooo.

We can take a global view and consider if we want a world that is completely dominated by one faith (in this case Islam) or rather a world that has everywhere equal opportunities, chances for followers of all faiths or no faith. In the long run it will not do to have countries where one faith is outrageously favored over all other faiths. Where on apostacy of that faith there are many unjust, unfair reactions. Or the threat of it.

Islam being a set of principles, rules, ideas, that is welcome to coexist, but NOT to dominate, subjugate, blockade, stifle, indoctrinate children and illiterate people etc. We feel we saw that in the past and present done by Muslims in the name of Islam. At the cost of other faiths (meant broadly), life, freedom, happiness of followers of these other faiths and even often at the cost of progress and prosperity. Or so we think.

There is al this comparing of the past and present behavior of Muslims and followers of other faiths going on. But we want "democratic rules, rule of law, human rights-upholding, practicing of Golden Rule, many of us are freethinkers. Much of our history begins with 18th century Enlightenment.

So maybe more in order is comparison between intentions and behavior of Muslims on the one hand and intentions and behavior of practitioners of democracy, freethinking AND of MODERN (as opposed to their obsolete views from before Enlightenment) Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians and what have you.

Warning: Irrelevent and long commentary

bandal I already heard about the Jesus the sun-god theory.

There is no sure way to prove Jesus really did exist, but I do know this:

I know Herod did exist, the pool where Jesus healed possibly a man in John 5:1-15 has been found in Jerusalem, the pool of Siloam in John 9:7 was unearthed in 1897, and a fragment of a plaque which bears the inscription Pontius Pilatus, Prefect of Judea has dedicated to the people of Ceasarea a temple in honor of Tiberious.

The description of the crucifixion Jesus went through has been proven accurate through archaeology:An archaeological discovery of a crucified body dating back to the Roman Empire around the time of Jesus which was discovered in Jerusalem in 1968. The remains were found accidentally in an ossuary with the crucified man’s name on it, Yehohanan, the son of Hagakol'. Prof. Nicu Haas, an anthropologist at the Hebrew University Medical School in Jerusalem, examined the ossuary and discovered that it contained a heel bone with a nail driven through its side, indicating that the man had been crucified. The position of the nail relative to the bone indicates that the feet have been nailed to the cross from their side, not from their front; various opinions have been proposed as to whether they were both nailed together to the front of the cross or one on the left side, one on the right side. The point of the nail had olive wood fragments on it indicating that he was crucified on a cross made of olive wood or on an olive tree. Since olive trees are not very tall, this would suggest that the condemned was crucified at eye level. Additionally, a piece of acacia wood was located between the bones and the head of the nail, presumably to keep the condemned from freeing his foot by sliding it over the nail. His legs were found broken, perhaps as a means of hastening his death as described in John 19:31-35.] It is thought that, since in Roman times iron was expensive, the nails were removed from the dead body to cut the costs, which would help to explain why only one has been found, as the tip of the nail in question was bent in such a way that it couldn't be removed.

Prof. Haas had also identified a scratch on the inner surface of the right radius bone of the forearm, close to the wrist. He deduced from the form of the scratch, as well as from the intact wrist bones, that a nail had been driven into the forearm at that position.

Sir William Ramsey, a world renowned archaelogist, had been schooled into thinking that the New Testament was a not a historical document. So when he went to investigate the claims of the Bible in his work in Asia Minor he was greatly surprised by what he found. He states: I began with a mind unfavorable to it ( The book of Acts ), for the ingenuity and apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite convinced me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject minutely; but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with the book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various details the narrative showed marvelous truth.

Roman Historian Colin J. Hemer, in the book of Acts in the Setting Of Hellenistic History, shows how archaeology has confirmed hundreds and hundreds of details from the Biblical account of the early Church.

I am now done with my tangen.

I would like to answer the question raised by the writer of this article. i will be willing to proceed if the moderated and enlighted membor of this community are willing to listen to my answers? if they have the heart to listen to the answers given, they dont want to think and listen to the atrocities by the crusaders. this has been acknowledged by many of the western writers mostly non-muslims. if u have the strength to really listen rationally to the answers then reply to this comment.

Answer #1: Where is God or Allah as suggested by muslims, if He is invisible?

God or Allah cannot be seen by normal eye that is true. if i were to hit u y would u hit me back? because u would feel the pain. but i deny that there is such thing as pain because i cannot see it. how can there be pain if i cannot see it or if there is no physical proof? that is ur answer if u have the reasoning u say u have.

To nr 38.

But all people can FEEL pain, so understand it when others say they feel it. But the existence of God can only be subjectively felt, which I respect very much, but it cannot be PROVEN. It seems to be a gamble.

God should endeavour more to get HIMself known, now confusion about HIM and his intentions reign. And doubts, differences of opinion about them, or even HIS existence, seem very reasonable. These doubts cannot be reason for punishment in the HEREAFTER, many think.

To nr 39
Do you believe that this universe has no origin then? there is nothing that could define the anomolies that we see each and every day? the two rivers that flow in harmony? the bisection of the moon and witnessed by the first man on moon Niel Armstrong (according to western writers)? then they are for themselves? there was no prophet as said by Jews or Christians or Muslims if there is no GOD? how come Jesus foretold the coming of another Prophet that He Himself respected? if the christians are so broadminded would they deny the saying of their own Prophet?

it is not that i am against all other religions i have been taught respect for all Prophets and all revealed religion not just Islam. y is that when a common Muslim tries have a peaceful relation and tries to show that Islam is not bad they are shunned and ignored and other fundamentalists who dont even have the smallest notion about Islam's true essence.

Fascinating article, thanks.

Given that you have proven that you can see through human lies, you would achieve a great deal investigating other religions. Either you help people free themselves from rubbish, or you find the Truth. Everyone wins either way.
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Oh, muzishah, what Jesus said was that those who would come after Him would be liars and cheats. So when Christians agree that He foretold the coming of Mohammad, it's not the way you think.

to Mr Muzishah #40

The believe in a God is very subjective pal. It depends on which version of God you want to subscribe your belief to. The Abrahamic God which comprises Judaism, Christianity and Islam has certain similar characteristics, the most famous is the torture will be inflicted on Non Believer of Him.

Bear in mind that the Hindus, Buddhist, Shamanist and Animist also believe in a type of God or Spirit of Nature that govern our life and manage our affair through direct intervention or indirect intervention. Your argument of beauty and balanced of creation(nature) such as river flowing harmoniously is deficient and does not point to which version of God that is relevant for their origin. Such kind of argument definitely cannot be manipulated solely to justify the Islamic version of God. The Jews, Christians, Buddhist, Hindus and Shamanist have equal right to that claim too.

However, Mr Muzishah, there is definitely the Law and Principles that abide by this universe to stir and cause emergence of first life form from the sea. You may call this Law and Principles as God or Diety or whatever name you want to give. Similarly, there is the aerodynamic rules abide by the plane to enable it flying and floating on the air. You can obviously 'feel' the Laws and Principles and you have every right to name it as "God". This is more logical than the improper Abrahamic God that display unnecessary interest whether we believe in him or otherwise burn us etenally in hell fire. Such unfair God who never give us the option to be born in this world is very confusing. It's all the more confusing if this so called god demanded killing , war and blood sacrifice to propagate his religion. Such ruthless and sadistic god is not worth believing even one second.

Hope the answer satisfy you.

Humanity is but one family. :)

Reply to # Muzzi from M.A.Khan

First of all I want to let you know that I said, "Who is this Allah?" and I tried to focus on the reality of this Allah who was once worshiped as idol God and latter pretended as a heavenly God.

As far as your point the Pain and its feelings are concerned, I would like to say, that pain always felt when there are nerves active in the body. If we remove nerves or inject pain killers, you wont be able to feel any kind of pain. However, inflictions is there in the body. Thus we come to know nerves are the source and originator of pain that can cause to feel a pain. So who is the source of your originator of creator? Or in other words, as you all believe that nothing could be created without creator, who created your God ?

Inspite of this, you claim Universe or anything can not be created without creator, then how can you justify that a creator can't be created by anyone?

To Marrie # 37, from M.A.Khan

Archaeological excavation that you have mentioned, still do not give concrete evidence either body of a crucified was really a Jesus. As we know, many have been crucified in severe brutal and barbaric way, before and after the time of Jesus. Thus, we can’t say with certainty that the crucified was really a Jesus.

After watching the research work of Miss Acharya, lead me to contemplate on the existence of Jesus, either did he exist or not. Now the points she is raising are logically stirring the common faith of Christians as well as Muslims; the twelve disciples, his resurrection, the symbol of cross etc…

With Acharya’s points, to my conjecture, Roman Empire had some political problems in Israel, especially in Jerusalem. They found tough time to confront with Jews and imposing their laws on inhabitants of Israel as mostly were orthodox Jews. Romans wanted to settle down all problems peacefully, but some orthodox Jews intervene principalities of Roman governors. To counter this obstacle, it is quite natural to think, that Romans devised a new religion that was based on their own scientific, social and cultural behavior. Later on, they formed New Testament. That was why Christianity spread into Europe more faster than in Israel.

I am not sure that I am utterly correct; I may be wrong, but the point is that how did Christianity spread to major parts of the world with the help of only twelve disciples. It is shrouded mystery.

Warning: Irrelevant commentary.

Xyz wrote:

Archaeological excavation that you have mentioned, still do not give concrete evidence either body of a crucified was really a Jesus. As we know, many have been crucified in severe brutal and barbaric way, before and after the time of Jesus. Thus, we can’t say with certainty that the crucified was really a Jesus.

Hundreds of people were crucified by the Romans. The Romans used crucifixion as a way to keep the people from rebelling against them.

With Acharya’s points, to my conjecture, Roman Empire had some political problems in Israel, especially in Jerusalem. They found tough time to confront with Jews and imposing their laws on inhabitants of Israel as mostly were orthodox Jews. Romans wanted to settle down all problems peacefully, but some orthodox Jews intervene principalities of Roman governors. To counter this obstacle, it is quite natural to think, that Romans devised a new religion that was based on their own scientific, social and cultural behavior. Later on, they formed New Testament. That was why Christianity spread into Europe more faster than in Israel.

Xyz the early Christians were persecuted by the Romans so this person's accusations makes no sense. Why would the Romans persecute the followers of a religion they started? Also the Romans thought of Christianity as another cult and Christianity did not become a recognized by the Romans until the 4th century when Constantine converted to Christianity ( the reasons for his conversion is a matter of debate )

I am not sure that I am utterly correct; I may be wrong, but the point is that how did Christianity spread to major parts of the world with the help of only twelve disciples. It is shrouded mystery.

There were twelve apostles who set out to preach the word and Paul did some heavy travelling. I don't know for sure but newly converted Christians could have helped spread Christianity to other parts of the world. I know Christianity spread to Africa through an Ethiopian Queen who converted to Christianity while abroad and brought it back with her.

Christianity was spread through other means such as charity as Christians were opening up there homes to the poor, creating hospices, and exc. Fielding Garrison a physician and a historian "the spirit toward sickness and misfortune was not one of compassion;" and he adds "credit of ministering to human suffering on an extended scale belongs to Christianity." It was a compassion less world the early Christians entered. Their high degree of compassion accompanied by a corresponding high regard for human life prompted by Christ's words in Matthew 25:45. These words moved them to show compassion for those who were sick and destitute. Early Christians practices Caritas which meant giving to relieve the recipient's economic or physical distress without expecting anything in return. The Romans at the time practiced liberalitis which is the opposite of caritas and only in extreme instances did some of the Romans give without expecting something in return. Christian charity was completely voluntary. According to Roman culture of that era, such behavior defied common sense, it was seen as a sign of weakness and viewed with suspicion. There was nothing to be gained by expanding time and energy, especially if done voluntarily on people who would not contribute to Roman valor and strengthen the state. The prevalence of stoic philosophy also made it disrespectful to associate with the weak, the poor, and the downtrodden. To Christians however the individual regardless of where they came from was valuable because he or she possessed a soul redeemed by Christ.

Finally Christian persecution and martyrdom helped spread the message of Christ as many people witnessed the Christians being killed for their faith where inspired by martyrdom and converted to Christianity.

The view of a Supreme creator being there is propogated by the western scientists and philosophers themselves, most of them secular. The most famous of the theory is the unification of forces. Nobel prizes were given for the intiation and progress of this theory that suggests that there are majorly five forces that hold this universe. If we, humans, were to combine these forces would ultimately lead to the Supreme Force or the Supreme Creator or Source of this universe. Do you deny these things that the nobel prizes were given in stupidity. The philosophers have also given this view that there has to be a creator of all this creation that has to be the source of all sources. Isnt that the main principle behind the physics and all other sciences? If you are to deny these point of view of your own western and secular scientists and philosophers you are more then a competition for muslims.

to Mr Muzishah #46

Just curious whether your post above was aimed at answering my #42 post.

Can you furnish me with the name of the scientists that propound the theory of "Unification of Forces" ? In the West now there are heated debates that occur between the Evolutionists and the Creationists.

If you read my post analytically, you can discover that I never deny the existence of God. I just explain regarding which version of God that religions subscribe to. Just because some famous noble prize winner suddenly propose certain theories that apparently in favour of Theism does not automatically put Islam to the frontline of truth. This is not the way to argue pal. It's a flawed reasoning that merely appeal to a person who possess a pre-conceived notion of rejecting other version of Godhood theories while advancing to the course of Islam. Let me put it clearer in a dialogue:

A: I dont know whether God exist or not?
B: Recent discovery attested to the existence of God.
A: Yes, but how to believe in this so called God?
A: It's easy, Islam believes in God. Islam is true. Just accept Islam.
B: ??

Mr Muzishah, can you see the biasness there? The whole concept of revelational God is still in question but you already draw your conclusion. How about if we proved that Islam is wrong and Muhammad was an impostor, a charlatan who hoodwinked people into accepting him as prophet of God? Does this suddenly make Judaism true? Of course not. Not in a million.

Humanity is but one family :)

Sir i did not even said that you should believe in Islam. I just asked that if there are some of those sensible person who believe that there is a creator that is the first step towards a healthy debate. As a muslim it is my belief to believe in every Prophet and respect every religion. Even the Companions of Hazrat Muhammad decreed that the religious rites of every religion not only Christianism and Judism but others too which includes Hinduism and Buddhism. But what would you do if an alien invasion happens and they kill you just by saying that you are human and are barbaric? Isnt that the issue here and every where else? If we are conforming with the traditions 1400 years old so what?
Christians are following the religion that is 2000 years old. Shouldnt they be also called fundamentalists. My question is you can easily doubt the existence of God or doubt the principles of Muhammad but we cant doubt the existence of holucast? Even if holucast did happen then too we cant voice opinion about it. The reality is the truth as you say, the reality is this. Doubt about our religion but no doubt about holucast, a political event. Isnt that biasness there? Think as a human being, a rational being.

Also i have heard and read on this site and the article that all muslims will go to heaven. What an absurd view and translation of the Quran and Ahadith. If you read the Quran, it is written clearly that not only non-Muslims but also Muslims who do not follow the Islam ends up in hell. Common all of you the largest persecution in humanity was done by Christians in crusades, WW1 and WW2. The largest massacre of Jews was done by christians and viceversa. Cummon why would the Jews of Spain and other areas ask for Muslims to help them if Islam was spread through sword. If you dont believe me go and read History of Arabs by Philip K. Hitti the most staunch opposer of Arabs and Muslims. He is the person who is opposed to Islam but takes an unbiased view. Go read Muhammad by Martin Lings and then tell me what you think. You people dont even have the guts to come in an open discussion and debate your point of view. You people disgust me. I really respect those other people who have the guts to come in an open discussion and still hold to their belief and accept their mistakes and respect the other belief or religion (from both sides).

to Mr Muzishah #44

You said: Sir i did not even said that you should believe in Islam. I just asked that if there are some of those sensible person who believe that there is a creator that is the first step towards a healthy debate.

Why should you prescribe pre-condition prior to any debate? What if an atheist take your challenge and be ready with his arsenal to debate you? Will that means that he or she automatically disqualified?

You said: As a muslim it is my belief to believe in every Prophet and respect every religion.

I think you have gone a little farther than facts there. In the history of Islam, Prophet Muhammad himself set an example to his follower not to respect the idol worshipping pagan Quraisy. He initiated the insults and abuse of their multi-god idea.Umar Al Khattab, during his reign had dilapidated 4000 chruches. Besides that, in Iran, the Zorostrians were humiliated and had to flee to India. In India, the Muslim rulers destroyed many Hindu temples and idols. Islam has forbidden music and dance which is inherent in most cultures and traditions. In conjunction with this, there are countless Quranic verses that stated the only religion accepted by God is Islam and other religions are false and bogus, meant for hell fire for eternity.

You said: Even the Companions of Hazrat Muhammad decreed that the religious rites of every religion not only Christianism and Judism but others too which includes Hinduism and Buddhism.

Mr Muzishah, are you daydreaming? I dont know how sufistic your approach but this is miles away from the reality of Islam. Islam commanded Muslims to establish superficial friendship with disbelievers for expediency purposes but not to love them in a heartful way. Do you know why Umar Al Khattab compellingly instruct Abu Musa Al- Asyaari to fire his account assistant during the latter governorship in Basra.? That because his assistant was a Christian. The statement of Umar goes like this: "Why do you appoint an enemy of God to this post?" The hatred was deeply rooted because the first seed was planted by Prophet Muhammad himself. Dont try to whitewash Islam Mr Muzishah, I am an ex muslim, I know how apologetic and desperate Muslims can venture themselves into.

You said: But what would you do if an alien invasion happens and they kill you just by saying that you are human and are barbaric?

What's this? Somekind of science fiction movie? Let me play it your way. If there is going to be alien invasion, we human will cooperate and resist them with all our might in order to prevent any possible occupation of our Mother Earth. Period.

You said: If we are conforming with the traditions 1400 years old so what?
Christians are following the religion that is 2000 years old. Shouldnt they be also called fundamentalists.

As I said, please avoid the "you too" game, Tu Quoque logical fallacy is not much of a welcome here. It's not the problem of 1400 years of traditions, It's the contents of Islam that demand controversy. Confucious lived much older than Prophet Muhammad but his sayings were more moral and enlightening to humanity. Prophet Muhammad participated in more than 70 wars and raids, married a 6 year old immature child, coveted his daughter in laws, cohabited with Mariyya Qibtiyya, his Jariyya or female slave, etc. Are these seem moral to you? Read the challenge here, they are all documented from earliest reliable sources of Islam.

You said: My question is you can easily doubt the existence of God or doubt the principles of Muhammad but we cant doubt the existence of holucast?

My friend, you are comparing chalk and cheese here. Please do not lump everything together. The holocaust occurred and 6 million (maybe lesser) Jews were murdered. Dont you feel sympathy for them? Where's your compassion and conscience? Those killed may include innocent children as well and comparison whatsoever is irrelevant here. Believe in God is different issue. HOWEVER, the principles of Muhammad is a troubled issue. This man has caused the Muslims to fight one another from the moment of his demise till today. He legalized slavery by indulging in slaves trade, maltreat women by behaving with less equality in regards to his 9 wifes. They conspire against him that caused the revelation of Suraa At Tahrim. Earlier in Suraa An Nisaa', he encouraged Muslim men to deal justly with polygamous marriage while he himself violated that injunction. Cant you see clearly that this impostor is no prophet of God but an incoherent man with mental insanity? The sun is bright but if a blind man cannot see it, how can we blame the sun?

Humanity is but one family :)

continuation

You said: Also i have heard and read on this site and the article that all muslims will go to heaven. What an absurd view and translation of the Quran and Ahadith. If you read the Quran, it is written clearly that not only non-Muslims but also Muslims who do not follow the Islam ends up in hell.

Come on, you know that your place will eventually end up in heaven while all the non-believers will be burned in scorging hell fire, am I right? The believe of Islam is that non-believers will be thrown into hell fire as their eternal abode. Dont play hide and seek with us OK. Nice try but you can cheat those gullible will be convert to Islam in the West but not us the ex Muslim. The Muslims no matter how big sins they have committed or how evil and useless to humanity they are will be admitted to heaven because of the presence of "Iman" in their heart. This is the teaching of Islam.

You said: Common all of you the largest persecution in humanity was done by Christians in crusades, WW1 and WW2. The largest massacre of Jews was done by christians and viceversa.

Tu Quoque again?? Come on, all the persecutions were done by unenlightened people who were in darkness, lacking the light of Islam. Islam is the panacea f humanity. Is this you are going to say? Let me see, as soon after the demise of Prophet Muhammad, even before his interment the Muslims gathered at Bani Sakifa brushwood shelter to share the caliphate office to the extent that fighting almost happen between Muhajirin and Ansar. Talk about modesty and respect to their Prophet. The closest Companion of the Prophet Muhammad decapitated and murdered one another for power struggle and dissatisfaction in the Battle of Jamal, Battle of Siffin and Battle of Nahrawan. Nearly 200,000 Muslims died fighting. Is this your religion of peace? Antidote of humanity? The Muslims killed one another again in the bloody history of Islam. What about the persecution of Bahaais in Iran, Qadiyani in Pakistan, Kurds in Iraq, Iran and Turkey, Bangladeshi by Pakistani soldiers? The infamous Shia-Sunni legacy conflict claimed countless life too. I wonder if the panacea is actually a poison to reduce humanity to ashes?

You said: Go read Muhammad by Martin Lings and then tell me what you think.

Martin Ling is a convert to Islam by the name of Abu Bakar Sirajuddin. He is a sufi, so, do expect honey-flavoured version of Islam from his writing.

You said: Cummon why would the Jews of Spain and other areas ask for Muslims to help them if Islam was spread through sword. If you dont believe me go and read History of Arabs by Philip K. Hitti the most staunch opposer of Arabs and Muslims.

Even without the Jews request for assiatance, the Muslims will definitely advance their way to the Iberian Continent of Portugal and Spain. Did any Jews seek their recourse for the invasion of French, invasion of Egypt, invasion of North Africa, invasion of Persia, invasion of India? The Muslim armies aimed at collecting booty and spoil of wars while widening their territory, similar to Ghengiz Khan and Atilla the Hun armies. Islam is a religion of war and terror. History testifies to this, the action of Muslims testify to this.

Humanity is but one family :)

Hitler was not Christian and neither were the Nazis and any Christian who took part in the atrocities lived in darkness.

Nice try Muzishaf. Phillip Hitti recounted the instance of the caliph al-Mutawakkil in 1850 and 1854 where he gave a decree that Christians and Jews should affix wooden images of devils to their houses, level their graves even with the ground, wear outergarmants of honey color, i.e. yellow, put two honey colored patches on the clothes of their slaves....and ride only on mules and asses with wooden saddles marked by two pomegranate-like balls on the cantle.

In regards to the Jews of Spain on Dec. 30 1066 about 4 thousand Jews were murdered by rioting Muslims who resented the fact that vizier Samuel Ibn Naghrila and his son Joseph had authority over them.

In 1291 Isaac ben Samuel, a noted Kabbalist and Palestinian Jews sough refuge in Christian Spain. Why did he go to Christian Spain instead of Muslim Spain?

A qoute from Maimonides can also this question. Maimonides, a Jewish philosopher who lived for a time in Muslim Spain and then fled the land remarked, "You know my brethren, that on the account of our sins God has caste us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us....No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have....We have borne our imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.

Answer to the both my opponents:

In answer to your allegation that Islam's doctrines are such that they bring with them war and terror and the atrocities committed by the Nazis and before them were committed by christians in darkness. Right I agree, then just tell me what the hell was the war of Vietnam, the atomic attack on Japan, etc. in the recent century. And for your kind information Marie the period of enlightenment started in the 18th century according to western historians. And also Germany, Britain, America and France were the most advanced nations of their time.

Mr. Ex-muslim as to your allegations, may I ask you a simple question? Why did you leave Islam? And please do not give me the same old reason that Islam prohibits many things that are considered a fashion in this time. Do you really want me to believe that you would have asked your sister to live with your best friend without marriage? Is alcohol not injurious to health? And for all of your kind information Tobacco has been declared haram (prohibited) in a decree by many scholars. As for your view that muslims killed each other in the Battle of Sifin and other battles in the Caliphate of Hazrat Ali, have you really read the history? The battle front was opened due to the murder of the former Caliph. And who instigated the rebellion, Abdullah Bin Sabah. Who was this Abdullah Bin Sabah? I am sure you have never read up on him or if you have you would not even mention it here.

I can tell you one thing that you just left Islam for one thing, to do all things prohibited by Islam. As for your point that all persecution was done by Muslims and only Muslims (because i see that you both avoided the discussion on the massacre from the 18th century by christians), if that was right then not even 1 million people should have been muslims and their number is still growing. Even the Byzantium ruler said when he read the letter by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he said that if it were not for my throne I would go and accept Islam in front of the Prophet.

Now that is a lie too right? All Muslims are liars not even those American rulers are liars who attacked Iraq and then apologized for attacking Iraq on the wrong pretext based on the CIA report. Yes that was right to attack based on a false reason.

Wow I can only admire the nerve of your people that you could make a cartoon of the Prophet, of the Heads of Governments, but not of the Holucast. You people have really the guts to say something and then defend it even if the whole world knows it is a lie.

And now I challange you for an open discussion with Dr. Zakir Naik (incidentelly he has the record of converting the highest number of people in one debate). As far as beliefs are concerned who the hell gave you the authority to say something about Islam if we dont have the authorityto propogate our religion. (Incidentally i remember one documentary on History Channel that showed the massacres between Protestants and Orthodox and isnt there a fight still between Protestants and Orthodox in Ireland)

I rest my case by these particular quotations in my language (translated):
"Illetrate are those who are narrowminded and cannot see beyond the horizon"
"educated illetrate are those who are educated but do not benefit from the education"

muzishah, we welcome you to invite Zakir Naik to debate here on FFI. He has been sent several invitations to debate on Muhammad by Ali Sina, sadly he only wants to hold a public which would make Ali Sina fair prey to the Islamic hordes. However if you have leverage over Naik, you are welcome to invite him for a debate to the FFI Forum. Everything shall be public and we shall know who is telling the truth.

to Mr Muzishah #49

You said: Mr. Ex-muslim as to your allegations, may I ask you a simple question? Why did you leave Islam?

Because I discover bitter facts about Prophet Muhammad immoral actions documented from the earliest reliable sources. It's because the history of Islam was full with atrocities, murder and conspiracy motivated by religious bigotry. Islam is a stagnant religion, an advocate of pessimistic way of life. There will be zero progress if Islam takes over Europe during the period of Enlightenment. You cannot even have great inventions of the centuries if Islam became dominating force. Islam will caused humanity to move backward. Mr Muzi cannot enjoy taking flight to anywhere or utilizing Internet now. Before you start asking evidence, please do read the Quran meticulously to see it's pessimistic outlook of life. Satisfied?

You said: Do you really want me to believe that you would have asked your sister to live with your best friend without marriage?

I definitely will NOT murder her for the honour of the family. Mr Muzishah, cant you see your twisted sense of moral relativism? In Islam, woman are considered to be the majority inhabitant of hell fire, deficient in intelligent, etc. My sister has the right to choose, live and get married with anyone of her preference. She has the free will to be responsible of her choice, good or bad. Why is my best friend comes to the picture here? Marriage institution is as old as the history of humanity. It's not the sole property of Islam. You are presenting straw man argument here. Do you think that society will be corrupt morally by leaving Islam? Damn wrong. Those unislamic society have higher moral values than Muslims. Where do you want to live? Switzerland or Pakistan?

You said: Is alcohol not injurious to health? And for all of your kind information Tobacco has been declared haram (prohibited) in a decree by many scholars.

Alcohol when consumed in moderate quantity is scientifically beneficial for health. The harmful way is addiction to it. Moreover, prohibition of alcohol is existent in many other scriptures. If you eat much mutton everyday, it can be harmful too as it can caused High Blood Pressure. What about the alcohol used in medicine and perfume? The inks that is used to write the Quran mushaf also contain alcohol.

You said: As for your view that muslims killed each other in the Battle of Sifin and other battles in the Caliphate of Hazrat Ali, have you really read the history? The battle front was opened due to the murder of the former Caliph. And who instigated the rebellion, Abdullah Bin Sabah. Who was this Abdullah Bin Sabah? I am sure you have never read up on him or if you have you would not even mention it here.

Of course I know the history pal. The scapegoat for all this calamity was Abdullah Ibn Saba', the Yemenite Jew. The Sunnis point their fingers on him for the creation of Shia sects while the latter denied his existence. Please solve your own problem first before trying to convince me. "Hazrat" Ali attacked Muawiya forces in Damascus with all his might and strength because the latter refused to submit allegiance to him. You made a saint of this ruthless man by regarding him as the greatest waliy. You see darkness as light, light as darkness. Now you dare to advice me on guidance?

Humanity is but one family :)