Emerging Muslim Freethinkers and the Battle of Civilizations
Submitted by M A Khan on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 05:22
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PDF versionThe Muslim world is obviously in a mess. Political instability, unbridled corruption, lack of economic development, widespread intolerance and violence, and lack of freedom, liberty and human rights are some of the traits that characterize Muslim societies most glaringly. All indications suggest that things will get only worse over coming decades.
Amongst many factors that differentiate Muslim societies from most other progressive and more peaceful societies are its missing freethinkers—namely critics and reformers—who are able to criticize the troublesome aspects of its societal core, its religious foundations. Other societies had its problems in the past. However, those societies allowed the emergence of progressive freethinking scholars, philosophers and reformers. They exercised variable measures of liberty to criticize, to point fingers at, the underlying reasons, including the religious ones, of the many ills of their societies. Jewish societies produced brilliant minds like Benedict de Spinoza, Carl Marx and Albert Einstein amongst many other; Christianity produced great thinkers like Rene Descartes, Emmanuel Kant, David Hume, John S Mill, Bertrand Russell and many more. Some of these thinkers, Spinoza for example, attracted ire from religious authorities, faced excommunication. Nonetheless, their ideas and views were not choked out; instead, they were disseminated with some measure of ease; security to their life was not threatened. The resilience, the power, of their progressive and reformative social, political and philosophical ideas eventually triumphed. As a result, those societies reformed, secularized, progressed and prospered.
But Muslims societies, the core of which is most intimately integrated with its religious ideals, have never really allowed the emergence of its own breed of freethinkers and progressive reformers, particularly over the past eight centuries.
One must not negate the fact that the Islamic world once excelled the rest in the so-called Golden Age of Islam (800–1200 CE). This was, however, possible only because the Islamic world fell in wrong hands soon after its founding by Prophet Muhammad (d. 632). The Arab imperialist Umayyad rulers (661–750) were mostly anti-Muhammad and anti-Islam, except when it served their purpose. For example, they exploited the Islamic doctrine of Jihad at its best for their imperialism expansion, whilst tried their best to prevent the conversion of non-Muslim subjects to Islam, so that they could extract more taxes from them.
During Umayyad rule, all kinds of often-progressive but theologically heretical ideas (i.e., rationalist Mutazilism) prospered unchecked in Muslim societies. Next, the Abbasid rulers (750–1250), who—rejected the Arab ways and adopted the Persian civilization—further propped up the flourishing of this often-heretical intellectual tradition. The Persians already had a great tradition in intellectual exercise prior to Islam’s birth. The Abbasids promoted science and philosophy even at theological compromise. Caliph Al-Mamun (813–833), for example, even persecuted the orthodox; all his officials had to agree that the Quran was not divine but created by Prophet Muhammad. His policies continued during the subsequent rule of al-Mutassim (d. 842) and Al-Wathik (d. 847). Al-Wathik, embarrassingly for Muslims, became dubbed as the “Commander of the Unbeliever”.
This deviation from true Islam set the emergence of the Islamic Golden Age in motion, albeit on the wings of heresy and theological compromise of all sorts. We see the greatest-ever Muslim scientist and thinker, Al-Razi (d. 945), calling Prophet Muhammad a charlatan, a fraudulent trickster; responding to Allah’s challenge of creating a book like the Quran, he called it an assorted mixture of “absurd and inconsistent fables”. The writings of Plato, Aristotle, Euclid, and Hippocrates—he asserted—contained much greater wisdom and brought greater service to humanity than the Holy Scriptures, which brought more harm than good.
This was all to change soon. Islamic orthodoxy was gaining strength; it triumphed in Islamic societies by the spadework of legendary Islamic theologian Imam Ghazzali (d. 1111). He called Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina—his predecessor and the brilliant 11th-century philosophers and scientists of Muslim world—apostates, which demands death. Luckily for the latter, they had already left the world. The rational and progressive thoughts became increasing suppressed. Religious orthodoxy, obscurantism and intolerance entered the body of Islamic societies. The Golden Age of Islam was dead. (My just-released book, Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery, discusses in Chapter IV the circumstances that made the so-called Golden Age in the Muslim world a reality).
Progressive thoughts and ideas have been choked out in Muslim societies with the instruments of intimidation and violence ever since. When colonial powers briefly imposed some measure of tolerance in Islamic countries, a few Muslim intellectuals of note emerged. After the colonial powers withdrew, the Islamic world has marched towards orthodoxy and intolerance, particularly after the oil-boom in the 1970s. Its progressive freethinkers, the generators of new ideas and creativity and propellers of civilization, are dealt with intolerance and brutality by authorities as well as by mobs.
As long as intolerance of dissenting ideas remain in force, Islamic world will unlikely emerge from its current malaise and lack of material progress. It is unlikely to change any time soon. There is, however, a glimmer of hope. Kicked out of their home countries, some Muslim dissidents—harbored by the liberal West—are showing their intellectual prowess. Muslim apostates like Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have written bestselling books. Most of all, they, for the first time, are pointing fingers at the debilitating nature of the Islamic theology, which must undergo modernization as have other creeds.
The new-age information technology, the Internet, have also come to their aid. Another lesser known, but more populous, breed of Muslim intellectuals have taken up pens for pointing out the troublesome aspects of the theological foundations of Islam and are airing their views through increasingly popular Websites, such as Islam Watch, Faith Freedom International, Apostates of Islam and more. More and more intellectually capable writers from Muslim backgrounds are being generated through these Internet-based ventures. As Muslim countries become increasingly networked to the Internet, the pool of Muslim readers, accessing their messages, will inevitably grow and help their enlightenment, which is already happening.
Samuel Huntington, in his Clash of Civilizations, quite correctly points to a prominent ongoing clash of Islam with the rest humanity, which is all there for one to see. It is raging by the day and will undoubtedly accentuate over coming decades. Islam’s history, particularly until the European colonial interventions in the Muslim world, has been a monotonous saga of continual war against non-Muslims; it has claimed hundreds of millions of lives from Asia to Africa to Europe. Even the far-off United States was not spared this Islamic brutality: her ship-crews captured and enslaved in North African waters suffered horribly. The war is being reinvigorated again.
Since the 9/11 attacks, there have been no less than 12,800 Islam-inspired acts of violence committed by Muslim militants and mobs globally as tracked by a Website (a small fraction of them against Western targets). While this battle now claims thousands of lives annually, millions of lives could be at stake in the not-too-distant future. It is Muslims, who are waging this raging new war against their non-Muslim neighbors all over the world; it is in their hands, too, to end it peacefully. Only a dawn of Islamic enlightenment—which entails Muslims’ recognition that there is unjustified violence and intolerance integrated in their religion and that these must be abandoned in order for them to be a peaceful part of the global humanity—can avert this dreadful prospect.
This is a battle not winnable through military might. The global Muslim community’s access to the rather unsavory views of this emerging band of Muslim freethinkers, and their willingness to pay heed to latter’s message may end this long-standing war of Islam against non-Muslim humanity with reduced damage to life and property. Else, humanity stands to lose immensely in this battle of civilizations.
Muslims will lose no less.
The ideas of this site and
The ideas of this site and the tactics of defaming islam are much cheaper than islam. Day dreaming harms the dreamer alone.
Saleem, it is not
Saleem, it is not day-dreaming. Look what is happening in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Palestine. Scores of Muslims are dying. Muslim population is actually decreasing day by day. Islam will be doomed soon.
Salim There is a very famous
Salim
There is a very famous quote by a great man, he said that " Beware of the man who dream with his eyes open, he might just work to make his dreams come true."
Hi M A Khan, From the account
Hi M A Khan,
From the account of the history depicted by you, many great leader and thinkers since the birth of Islam, hv undestood that all the climed by Mohamad that he is the prophet are false. They also understand the evil teaching of Mohamad and the harm it can have on the society. They have tried to defeat it bit so far they have all failed. Because of their failure, all the prediction made by the great leader and thinker has came true. They will be very sad if they have a chance to see the situation of thier country and society that had been taken over by Islam.
salim says --The ideas of
salim says --The ideas of this site and the tactics of defaming islam are much cheaper than islam. Day dreaming harms the dreamer alone.
In your own words you agree islam is a cheap religion.
IDIOT learn English first instead of wasting time reading that stupid book--koran. Try to phrase your sentence correctly.Foolish.
Sorry, my note was not
Sorry, my note was not completed, here is the continuation.
I personnaly is very fearful of the spread of Islam. I do not want to see my future generation fall into the influence of Islam and the whole world end up like the Islamic state today. If our forefather are not able to defeat Islam, even many of them have tried, we need to re think how we can stop this melaise. It is true that people in the olden days are less educated and there is no internet to provide a safe platform for the free thinker to spread their message, but that . does mean that our job can be easier. It is dis hearten to me to know that many of the educated Muslim and non Muslim, still do not believe that Islam is a false religion founded by a wicked person, whom cannot even be considered a normal person, let alone righteous person in this modern morality. Even leader of the free world, the western country have continuously come out to defend Islam as a true religion of peace.
In my society, we cannot even discuss religion issue in the public, let alone critising it. We as free thinker understand that, many religion is using god as the passport to tell lies. Countries all over the world, both muslim and non muslim, inclusive of the progreesive, defender of freedom of speech, the western world are in that league, still very fearful of people critising religion belief. Religious teaching, are mostly protected from criticising regardless of thier claim is logical or substatiated. But for all the secular belief, like the atheist and free thinker, we need to subject to harsh criticism and criminal persecution.
The challenge we face to stop or eradicate Islam from the face of the earth is tremendous. Mohamad, like Jesus, know the power of god, both at attracting followers and provide sanctury to their teaching and belief. They are the one that have successfully utilise it to their fullest advantage. Even we are much educated today, but we are still very fearful of god. The use of god can attacts many believer and make people loss ttheir conscience and objectivity. With all the advance of science we are still not able to provide a conclusive argument to disprove the "God" claimed by many of the religions today. The onus of proving it exist or not, should lie with those who claimed that it exist. I can confident say that, no prove of god, provided by all the religions today can stand up to the test of our logic and scientific test. We as a free thinker can safely claimed up to today, there is no prove of god and all claims of god are lies.
Basing on this argument, we need to spread our finding and belief so that we can win over as many people as possible, so that our society can be free of teaching and belief that prey on the ignorant of people, especially during the olden days, thousands of years ago.
With due respect, we need to up hold the morality that develop over many years of our society forming. Like Ali Sina wrote earlier, so long that we are doing the things that do not harm the people but help people and our conscience is clear, we should be at peace with our moraly and spiritualy.
Readers comment please.we
Readers comment please.we need English language coaching.!!!!
7. Salim Says: ==Ibrahim, if
7. Salim Says:
==Ibrahim, if you do any activity while day dreaming, you will fall off a precipice. ---You appear to need more lessons in english grammer, reading comprehension and grasp of language. Foolish nutcase.==
This one time I agree with you baby. This Ibrahim guy was a Muslim without attending any MadRassa run by Jerk off Zakir Naik. Naturally his English is not MadRassa English. But your English is pure MadRassa English , straight from the ass of Jerk off Zakir Naik. Am I correct Baby??
Krishna786, well i was about
Krishna786,
well i was about to write the same comment but did not because i saw that you had already shown how stupid this fool called Salim(alias Amim) is.
But i guess you were wrong in assuming that his english is poor. He probably knew what he was writing. Islam is a cheap religion. So, blame his english.
Salim,
your english is impeccable. You have rightly said that Islam is a cheap religion albeit a little less than FFI( which is kind of comparing apples and oranges)
No guys Salim is not Amim,
No guys Salim is not Amim, they are purely different people even by just observing at the style of their postings. Amim is more of a brain-dead zombie but Salim is more intelligent. But they are both alike at some point. Both are TERRORISTS!
#11 I agree. A terrorist is
#11
I agree. A terrorist is a terrorist, moderate or radical. The so-called moderates come into a nation and present Islam as a nice religion, and then if the nation refuses to accept their demands, then they call in the radicals who blow up and terrorize literally. This has happened in Europe and is happening in America. They cry racism, when Islam is not a race. Arabs are considered Caucasians, and so are Indians and Pakistanis. The cry of racism in America has reached its limits. STUPID useful idiots are being used by Arabic Mislims to keep the racism crap going, to allow Islam to be accepted. Well if one roach is in your house, you best believe there are others. Roaches come in all colors, but are still roaches.
Raisin head You are right,
Raisin head
You are right, all immigrants to US of A should pack up and go back to wherever they came from, beginning with European Americans. The American land belongs to native Red Indians. They should issue visas and immigration permits to whoever they want to allow to come in and settle. You must take lead in that.
Sometimes you talk sense, even though you are growing raisins on your head instead of gray matter.
Ok,going by the expression of
Ok,going by the expression of relativism,you tell me what islam is Cheap,Cheaper,Cheapest.which???.Buddy you goofed up,just like your prophet did 1400 years ago.accept it.like all muslims you are in denial mode.
Ahh, Raisin Head I really
Ahh, Raisin Head I really like that line of yours " Roaches come in all colors, but are still roaches". It is sad to know that there is a growing number of black roaches in the high offices of US government (Keith Ellison, Andre Carson, Larry Shaw, etc).
Salim said Ibrahim, if you
Salim said
Ibrahim, if you do any activity while day dreaming, you will fall off a precipice. You appear to be in that state.
Salim bhai, I said the one who dreams with his eyes open. You don't fall or stumble when your eyes are open.
Raisin head You are right,
Raisin head
You are right, all immigrants to US of A should pack up and go back to wherever they came from, beginning with European Americans. The American land belongs to native Red Indians. They should issue visas and immigration permits to whoever they want to allow to come in and settle. You must take lead in that.
Sometimes you talk sense, even though you are growing raisins on your head instead of gray matter.
It means muslims have to leave palestine.Worldwide jihad or muslim sore point is palestine. Your prophet hallucinated about his trip to heaven from Al quds just to spite the jews & that too from the exact spot on the destroyed temple of the jews(temple mount).Ask your muslim brothers to pack their bags & go live in saudi desert.Go read history.not islamic history.
Salims's bad mouthing itself
Salims's bad mouthing itself confirms what XXX he comes from. Could it be that he was spanked by his father for not reciting Quran during his growing years or could it be that he cannot live with the fact that his ideal human was a pedophile, barbaric tyrant..
His understanding of English is screwed up requires no proof but being proud about that indicates the level of ignorance.
Doe's he have any idea how much pig fat muslims have eaten by taking medicines made in west. I guess he doesn't otherwise he might have to cut his body into parts whereever that part touched... to bad Salim. I guess he does not know that HAM and MAD are part of MO's name, mo-HAM-mad
Salims’s bad mouthing itself
Salims’s bad mouthing itself confirms what SXXX he comes from. Could it be that he was spanked by his father for not reciting Quran during his growing years or could it be that he cannot live with the fact that his ideal human was a pedophile, barbaric tyrant..
His understanding of English is screwed up requires no proof but being proud about that indicates the level of ignorance.
Doe’s he have any idea how much pig fat muslims have eaten by taking medicines made in west. I guess he doesn’t otherwise he might have to cut his body into parts whereever that part touched… to bad Salim. I guess he does not know that HAM and MAD are part of MO’s name, mo-HAM-mad
Typical muslim argument,from
Typical muslim argument,from relativism to opposites.You make a good muslim. You seems to have a taste for pigs.Is it halal now in islam.
Salim says Yes we know your
Salim says
Yes we know your comments were meant for USA. When you said that America belongs to the native Americans and I agree with you on this one. Colonial rule is a big FOUR letter word.
However what I fail to understand is that why are you not able to extend this attitude towards the barabraic Islamic invaders fromCentral Asian who even today dominate the Muslim societies in the guise of Sayyeds.
Be true to your heart and tell me if I am wrong, don't the Sayyeds still dominate the Muslim societies in the Subcontinent.................
Using your analogy Arabs belong to Arabia and not Algeria, Rawada, Egypt, Morocco, or any other African country. Why should not their asses be kicked out of the African counries?
This guy talks about american
This guy talks about american indians.NO DOUBT PRESENT DAY AMERICANS HAVE TO ANSWER.BUT WHAT ABOUT MUSLIMS.No religion Or a group of people brutalized mankind.Don't talk in isolation.For your information more american indians died from syphilis(sexually transmittable disease) than from the gun.Go read secular history not that crap called koran--encyclopedia of idiotic muslims.
However what I fail to
However what I fail to understand is that why are you not able to extend this attitude towards the barabraic Islamic invaders fromCentral Asian
Time moves only in one direction unfortunately. You can't turn the clock back.
Sayyeds do dominate in the sub-continent, it calls for reforms indeed. If you say reforms are overdue amongst muslims, you are right.
Any kind of discussion with
Any kind of discussion with moslems is like throwing stone on XXX. XXX splatters back on to you! The true moslems on this message board quite easily demonstrate the same. I do not like to throw stone on XXX( moslems)
If that is so, perhaps you
If that is so, perhaps you Salim should stop suggesting that European Americans should leave USA.
Salim Bhai, its good see that
Salim Bhai, its good see that we can finally talk like civilized people. I respect you for that.
Salim bhai lets leave history
Salim bhai lets leave history behind.
At least now muslims can behave like civilized beings.
What Muslims are doing in Afganistan, Iraq & Pakistan whould be stopped.
Those who can think don't talk against them and those who do are killed.
Salim, good point why we
Salim,
good point why we don't accept these Barbarian and what is the fault of people like you who are just their offspring.
You write correctly that Europeans were wrong in US. I don't defend it. I also agree what happened in past is past. Next generations can not take blame of their forefathers. This context is accepted, once next generation accept that their fore father did wrong despicable acts. Americans reformed the society and now they have changed their ways and accept what they did was wrong. The society is more democratic. Everyone is free to express and equal irrespective of race, religion and colour. You guys remain same and wish to implement the laws and rules of middle ages. You wish to or see what a pedo mad man did as sunnah. That is not acceptable. Tell me you accept the origins to be outside, but then why don't respect natives and native culture. Why you make pockets and isolate yourself whereever you go. All the time your aim to convert as many as possible and increase in number. Threatening the heritage and culture of native. Why don't you guys accept your forefather did mistake and correct the course? Just give happily all the temples back on which you built mosques. You can't do this, as your religion forbids it and it forbids as these are satanic verses.
The point comes back to the same story, prove what your are so zealous about is really worth. Refute the claims made on this site. If you could then my brother, I'll come with you and spread Islam shoulder to shoulder with you.
The different tactics
The different tactics zealously used by this website to degrade Islamic values never stops to amuse me. It was impossible to read this thread and not notice the subtle change in tactics by these so called literati of muslim world. Each day this site comes up with an article lambasting our societies, cultures, values and faith. The so-called intellectuals have run out of material to malign our religion. I remember this site initially had a section that rendered a personal attack against the Prophet, peace be upon him as the centerpiece. The focus however has shifted towards political and cultural News items of the day. Now we have another article which negates all the progress made by Islamic societies through history. The authors are cheered on by the same band of loyal bigots. These prejudiced minds are incapable of breaking free of this destructive and negative mentality of hate against Islam and its values. They will applaud anything and everything that is aimed against Islam. My advice to the people who come on this site regularly and who have chanced upon this site to read through all the previous threads and see the cheerleaders are all but mostly same- rationalist, Ibrahim, Krishna786, Halalpork786, focused, raisinghead, and proud Christian who just happens to join the pack of these hate mongers with genocidal intentions.
When you portray Islam with your own ill informed findings you do injustice to the society by spreading disinformation. Disinformation causes people to panic just like our Brother Heng. Brother Heng seems to fear the fate of his future generation in the hands of religion in general and Islam in particular. I wonder how brother Heng envisions a god less state would save mankind. Your disrespect and dilemma towards our prophet Muhammad and Jesus Christ is nothing but manipulative techniques towards hindering peace and justice in the world. Your prescribed manner of achieving peace is ‘eradication’ of Islam is probably a temptation of violence that your godless soul harbors. The modern morality that you have signaled at is nothing but the result of evolution of religious principles and their ‘convenient’ perceptions in today’s time.
In order to understand religion one has to understand the universality of god and the concept of the everlasting ‘deen’ as Quran teaches us. I believe if you had a clearer understanding of this concept you would not be so fearful of the message continued by Prophet Jesus validated, perfected and completed by our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. The saying ‘don’t shoot the messenger’ seems to apply very well to these evil provocations challenging the almighty himself. It is a technique used against all messengers in order to deny the truth in their message. The best way to malign an information is to unjustifiably corrupt the source or the authenticity of the source. This tactic has been used indiscriminately used against all prophets. As admitted by you this is isn’t working. Had this worked through all periods in time this would possibly and to your extreme delight would have ‘eradicated’ Islam. Unfortunately for you Islam thrives in the hearts of every muslim and the more evil intentioned criticism of Islam is brought in the fore our faith is strengthened like never before. Your zeal in spreading the information will be counter productive to your cause as you would strengthen a Muslim’s belief furthermore.
I would like to comment on the concluding part of Mr MA Khan’s article. I must say that the notion that you are unscrupulously attempting to propagate shall be negated by the test of time. It is pointless to mention the glaring misinformation and historical inaccuracies that I find in your article. I strongly believe that perception of history changes from individual to individual. Hence, I am comfortable with the fact that your ‘enlightened’ free thinkers will continue their tireless endeavor against religion but never make any impact in our hearts and souls. However, what worries me the most is the agenda disguised in these seemingly conciliatory and understanding tones. This mal intent of blaming Islam for all our modern woes is a song that’s going stale.
The world has nothing to fear from Islam. The political and territorial disputes will remain and continue to be solved with justice and peace. To link our religion with News items of today is just a farce attempt of these so called’ free thinkers’ in their spirited goals against the truth. I would say these free thinkers are but prisoners of their arrogance and lust for recognition. Arrogance and a longing for fame is harmful towards a man’s spiritual side. Islam is not at war with anyone. It is against Islam that a war of propaganda and deceit has been waged. Islam only approves the strive for justice in its cause for its followers.
Islam does need free thinkers and has always encouraged so. But it needs genuine free thinkers who can distinguish between lies and truths. Your ‘free thinking’ is just the legacy of mindset that your colonial masters have left you with. The legacy that still makes these critics mistake us as ‘Mohammadens’ instead of Muslims. I hope your cheerleaders do identify their religious leanings and ideologies as clearly as we Muslims do. It is their failed idolatrous pursuits that exhausts their religious zeal. They are now reduced to forging their lies against Islam to recompense their dilemma of God’s existence.
faithone, Your ranting is
faithone,
Your ranting is meaningless. If you think otherwise and can prove so, please do.
Your ignorance is quite evident from the fact that you are talking about colonial masters when this website is accessed by people throughout the world.
Your hatred for polytheists is quite visible even though you try to conceal it. To me, you are more dangerous than taliban.
What decides who "genuine" free thinker is? is it only the ones who write for islam and not otherwise.
What is the punishment for apostasy in islam?
what is the punishment for criticizing islam?
So, don't try to be smart. If you care so much about islam, offer a rebuttal with valid souces and i am sure everyone will accept your viewpoint. If you cannot offer a logical and coherent rebuttal and yet do not want this website to publish anything, you are no different from other brain-dead muslims.
As for asociating news items with quran, it is muslims themselves who do so and it is strange that you should raise such questions because they are logically able to justify the violence based on quran. we just report it, critique it.
and if your faith
and if your faith strengthens(although i wonder why it should change if you are sure about the truth in Quran), then thank us and send us chocolates for a job well done. Also, please get some more of you friends here so that they can also strengthen their faith.
FaithinOne, you are just
FaithinOne, you are just showing your helplessness in not being able to defend Islam. Any amount of ranting will not produce any results. I know how much terrorism Islam has caused on Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, and Pharsee population. If you are not able to believe the Islamic records, then you are no better than Muhammad Ghori, Ghazni and other charlatans. Look, all you need to do to defend your pedophile prophet and Islam is to write a rebuttal to the challenge posed on this website. If you can't do it, you are wasting your time. I have studied your scriptures for the last 6 yrs. I feel proud to be an idolator, kaffir, heathen or whatever you call. I would die with hunger but won't accept the dirty creed called Islam.
Consider the following facts now.
1. In any non-Muslim country you can say anything against their indegenous faiths, yet you will not be killed. There is no death for apostacy from non-Islamic religions.
2. However, in any of the Islamic countries, a slight criticism against Islam or pedo Muhammad will result in death punishment. Also you cannot leave Islam and live in Islamic countries.
That sums it up! Why are Islamic countries so horrible. Where is freedom of speech and religion? If you can't answer then just don't rant here.
faithone says The world has
faithone says
The world has nothing to fear from Islam.
Isn't this what the buther assures the animal just before it is slaughtered. I mean figuratively speaking. The animal is usually coaxed and patted so that it wont know what is in store for the animal. These are the type of people we need to guard against for they are dishonest to their core and are here to spread the hegemony of Islam.
in the name of my heavy lauda
in the name of my heavy lauda so merciful.....
y to die and protect someone who doest exist in world rite now?
Dear Brother Foccused,
Dear Brother Foccused, Rationalist and Ibrahim,
Firstly I would like to wish you all a happy Holi. I hope you have enjoyed or will be enjoying your festivities. If you guys are confused atheists or at least trying to hide behind its veil I would still wish you the same. This festival has great cultural significance immortalizing the win of Prahalada over Demoness Holika, sister of Hiranyakashipu. Just incase the few non-Hindus ‘from around the world’ accessing this site may find my greetings confusing.
Well, I have been accused of ranting co-incidentally by two out of three brothers who have chosen to respond to my comment. I am sure the other cheerleaders are busy hailing the works of the repetitively themed articles that keep appearing on this website. I would advise the independent readers to access my comments in my extensive reply to the article and follow up comments on the topic of Kashmir: Legion of terror. Surprisingly the same choice of word was used to belittle my views there I rather not blame it to the limited vocabulary of my friends here as they all appear well rehearsed in their claims and counter claims as taught by the sponsors and the mavericks of this site. I am sure they will never like to face the mirror. We are sensible enough to identify the real chants, uh! sorry the RANTS.
I have also been shushed for using the expression colonial masters in order to point at the source of the version of history that these people rely on to justify their cry baby attitude regarding the past. The reason why I have been shushed is because this site is accessed by ‘people throughout the world’. This is an interesting observation and an ignorant view that the phenomenon of colonialism is limited to the sub continent only I believe every African, South and North American and Australian etc are aware of this phenomenon and the mindset it has created. Hence, I feel the mention of colonial masters is relevant in my explanation of your victim mentality.
I am dismissed as an anti-polytheist. I believe my comments have touched your conscience. I have only tried to bring to the fore the denomination of individuals who engage in this hate filled pursuit and their militant political intent.
If the readers have visited other articles and read the subsequent comments filled with anti-Gandhian views. Infact your dislike of Mr Gandhi is a clear evidence of the collective despair your ideology faces in our Indian society. I understand the negative mentality that drives your sense of victim hood and dislike of multi cultural views as prevalent in majority of India. I am sad that spreading anti-Islamic views consumes you and in a manner defines your identity.
As for your mention of the Quran and its condemnation of associating and ascribing partners with God is the fundamental of our belief. I believe your intention to mention the Quran so as to implicate it in your trial of our religion is simply your long standing hysteria. I am sure you are armed with cherry picked verses itching to copy and paste it to me and fulfill your divine duty of exposing the ‘violence’ in Islam. I have seen enough material and would suggest the readers to find it for themselves and dispel this fear tactics as used by our brothers here. Nevertheless I wont be surprised if they are flashed over and again here as a follow up to my comment.
Genuine free thinkers are those who are free from the clutches of prejudiced and a negative mindset. This intent of the person investigating a matter is definitely important. A constructive investigation and critique of Islam is welcomed in the main stream. It gives us Muslim an opportunity to dispel the lies that are spread about our religion What we definitely do not welcome is the slander and abuse that’s hurled towards our prophet and religion in the name of free speech and democracy. We don’t accept libel as an expression of free thinking. I am sorry we reject that idea and so would many societies if the same was directed towards them. This is the primary reason why this site does not even stand the test of decency and hence is ignored by the majority. But I guess to satisfy your servile attitude towards Western recognition your mention of Jerusalem Posts’ interview of Ali Sina is inevitable. Now we all know the unstated position of Zionist media in relating the occupation and criminalizing the teachings of Quran as one of their many aggressive tactics to berate the resistance to occupation. I don’t believe that these individuals are here to debate on any topic as their main intention is nothing but slander. When all their might failed in their effort to falsify Islam they have now come up with their new slander techniques.
You have asked me regarding the law that Islam applies towards apostasy. I would like to mention the difference in opinion over this subject amongst the different schools of thought. However, the most significant sides with the measure of Capital Punishment. We have to understand that the laws of apostasy are determined for a muslim society that follows and accepts Shariah as the guiding principle. The belief in God and his prophet is at the core of this concept for all muslims included in the specific ambit of prevailing law – which in this case is the Shariah. If we were to analyze any other political scenario of anytime and deduce what is central to this existence of the state we will in that case find many different views. In a monarchy the welfare of the King/Queen and the paraphernalia of monarchy is prime. In a democracy we may say the constitution and the sovereignty of the country is most important. Hence as a measure to safeguard their values these states have laws specifically, the laws for treason. It has been well recorded that over time the punishment for treason was death or life imprisonment. However in many Modern states the element of capital punishment has been removed.
The United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States." Thus different societies deal with treason in their own manner.
Apostasy is a form of treason if one views it in the context of a Muslim socio-political arrangement that puts the belief in God and his prophet central to the idea of the state. Just because the UK or Estonia abandoned death penalty doesn’t in anyway mean that any Islamic state has to adopt these values. The sudden realization of a society susceptible to its own dilemma cannot be forced to be viewed as a rational example to follow. Nevertheless, this gives the critics of Islam enough fuel to fan the fire of hatred towards it. It is important to mention again the fact that the understanding of this punishment for apostasy differs from one establishment to the other. Islam accommodates a myriad of views within itself. The society is advised to follow the consensus, Hence we may find different applications of laws to different situations. The fundamental idea of divine justice in Islam is not restricted to the execution of prescribed methodology of punishment. In Islam there is this most important idea of conscience. It has not reduced god’s justice at ransom to the intercession of the priest and ones confession alone. Islam understands individuality of opinions and also comforts us to question ourselves from within so that we grow richer in faith. However, when one rejects faith in private it does not imply an immediate punishment. But when that individual publicizes his renunciation and criticism as an act of subverting and undermining the interest of the Islamic state. The matter does call for this action just like a legal instrument at the disposal of law to enforce the rule of law. This certainly would not apply in a muslim state which doesn’t make Sharia its guiding principle or a non muslim state which obviously does not. In any case Islam doesn’t prevent Muslims from following the law of the land they belong to. If we live in a secular society the law of the land will prevail. Which in this case does not consider apostasy as a crime. Hence, patience is prescribed.
Most often this rule against apostasy is made to appear as a form of mob justice. However, this is clearly an execution of justice by an organized legal system
I am painstakingly advised to offer rebuttal with ‘valid’ sources. I am not in the business of arguing over matters of my faith. I think all Muslims who comment here are presenting their views in their individual capacity. Ours is not a concerted and organized effort like yours. I think previously there have been many respondents on this site who have proved this to be nothing but a farce. However, those articles and their comments fall victim to the barrage of the same repetitive allegations that appear daily and are somewhere consigned to the archives or conveniently erased from memory. It is simply an act of deviated mind to cast shadows of doubt by one’s ill gotten fantasies in order to ‘eradicate’ Islam. I am here to express my opinion on a topic and should have a right do so without the slander aimed at my prophet.
As a response to your last claim I would like to say that if you read your statement again all you have tried to do is throw my point back at me. You claim that muslims associate the News item of the day with Quran. Your disagreement with me seems to go to a point that you would disagreet with me even if I agreed to your view point. See brother if you read my comments on Kashmir – the legion of terror I have related the circumstances in which our Quran is attacked in order to whip a collective fear against muslim’s political aspiration. This whipping of passion is aimed at passing on a divine writ of uniting and crushing these aspirations. Religion thus ends up being the scapegoat. I suggest a re-read. I understand you are obliged by your ‘masters’ to incessantly comment and applaud and ridicule Islam in each and every article that the organizers arrange on a daily basis. Hence your attention span is limited to the chronology in which thesearticles appear.
Dear Rationalists,
This whole business of rebuttal is simply an excuse to continue your ill intentioned farce of dialogue. How often I hear this sorry story of Muslim persecution in our land. I have time and again advised you to come out of the perception of divisive history that the colonialists played against us. Its sad that people still buy that hate story . I would suggest that you look at the glorious past of the ancient Indian society and stop sulking at the History texts your western masters have left you with. At least stop lamenting your imaginative tragedies. Unless, you would like to misuse your lies to whip up passions and call for the annihilations of Muslims.
To your question regarding criticism of Islam in Islamic countries- I hope you have read my understanding regarding how the rules of apostasy works in a Muslim society that ADOPTS Shariah. I believe that should set this matter to rest. However, you would continue to question why do muslims take such profound dislike to criticism of Islam. Brother I can only say that as Muslims our understanding of Islam is simply not a ‘brain-dead ritualistic’ approach. Our faith engages our mind and our souls. It is simply a matter of deep love and understanding. I am sorry if other non-muslim societies have lost themselves in the cloudy smoke of priestly spirituality that has subverted their minds and hearts we are not to be blamed. We take offence because it is a matter of deep faith and acceptance of our religion. Nevertheless, you still need to work out your question because it is just another futile attempt on your part to bring anything no matter how insensitive to hurt the image of islam.
Dear Ibrahim,
Funny analogy! I would simply say that this holds true in the case of FFI. Which stated its goal to be spreading democracy in Muslim societies. I guess he intended to invite Muslims to this hate filled site aimed solely to hurl allegations and generate an unfounded fear amongst non muslims against Islam He is being well assisted by our brothers with militant prescriptions to curing the ‘ailment’ of Islam. I suppose your lies and deceptions will keep taking new forms. I just hope FFI is not reduced to a forum for a few to vent their ancient angst.
ppl who support and read mr
ppl who support and read mr sina websites are cheerleaders?? hahaha...
is there any reference of cheerleaders in quran btw?
also shudnt it be haram for muslim ppl to communicate in any other language rather than the arabic language in which quran has been written...
faithinone,,,just one thing... will u be willing to give your 6-9 yr old daughter to marry someone who is almost 10 times her age..forget that...will u be willing to marry your daughter, when she is 9 yrs old, to your prophet mummad???will ur conscience permit u to do that? so that u can reap rewards in after life!
MR LAUDA, It seems you are
MR LAUDA,
It seems you are the new zealot who has joined the bandwagon. You have found my reference to cheerleaders very entertaining. Mr Lauda, you are disappointing Mr Sina with your child like ignorant laughter and lame comments. It seems you have simply jumped into this discussion without understanding why I have used the term. I suggest that you go back several articles and read my comments there. Infact your very comment as a response to mine has furthermore strengthened my assertion as to the identity of the real inciters of hatred. It is sad that when all your tactics have failed you have resorted to the use of abusive language with reference to God.
Your novice understanding of Islam is simply damaging your image and the image of the so called ‘ researchers’ of Islam on this site. I wonder even if you yourself understand what you are saying. I just find your blabber of Arabic being the only language in which muslims should communicate not even worthy of any reaction.
As for the parrot like repetition of pedophilia. I would suggest you to refer to the comment sections of Pedophilia: Amar Khan Vs Saadiq. Mohammad on 25th feb on FFI. All you need to do is go back a couple of pages.. I think enough exchange of ideas have taken place there.
Good night Mr Lauda…..
miss faithinone, good
miss faithinone, good eve...
leave aside mr amar khan and leave aside mr saadiq...leave quran aside...leave aside everything
jsut answer one que...will u be willing to give the treatment of marriage to your/others 6-9 yr old daugther or offer her to ur mr mummad?
u cant deny the fact that 60 yrs old men are using excuse from quran to marry single digit age little girls and thats the truth AND YOU CANT DENY THIS FACT!!!!SEE FOR HISTORY OF HYDERABAD IN INDIA WHERE THESE FU#$%% ARABS COME AND MARRY LITTLE SINGLE DIGIT AGE GIRLS AND YOUR KAAZIS PERMIT THIS MARRIAGE,IT CONTINUES EVEN TODAY,AND THESE PARENTS(financially poor) MARRY THEM OFF THINKING ATLEAST SOME ARAB WOULD BE KIND AND TAKE THEM ALONG TO SOME DESERT GULF AND THEY WUD LEAD SATISFYING LIVES.
this is true story which u can see urself in hyderabad,and honestly there is no reasonable explanation to it...
u can call me like frog in well thinking and seeing no light on this issue bcos i refuse to see/understand/justify ppl marrying and fuc#$% single digit age girls....how on earth can u ppl do that and have balls to say god permit that????
and one more hting...its not the case of one pyscho arab doing it...its the usual case with plane loads of arabs coming to hyderabad in india and marrying and living them for 1 week to 1 month...and then doin talak ritual and goin back...
all this is done in the name of allah most merciful!!!
your comment...."Your novice
your comment...."Your novice understanding of Islam is simply damaging your image and the image of the so called ‘ researchers’ of Islam on this site"...
i am nowhere near qualified to be called as researcher of islam...ppl like ibn kamina or mr brahmchari are alone enough to answer all ur ques...
i see islam hows it practically practised and try to see/understand y ppl do it...my thinking/commenting is wut u say a common man seeing/replying and commenting and not a scholar commenting... so dont use my name to describe this is how ppl are ffi reply to quranic queries or whatever...
#14 Americans are all types.
#14
Americans are all types. The American Indians came from China. No one own any part of the world. America is God's land and if Europeans need to return to Europe, then Indians need to return to China the same way they came, the Baring Strait.Since Arab Muslims came from Arabia, send them home.
As usual, Muslims lie as you just did. Americans have accomplished more than any European as a whole with the help of many races and people. American Indians today are glad the Europeans came, because they were mired in slavery, wife abuse and wind, sun, and fire gods. Today, Indians are accomplishing many things with the help of the bad ole white man. African descendants have accomplished much with the help of the bad ole white man.
Since white men made it mandatory to read and write they read the Bible and stopped slavery as the Bible told Christians to stop slavery 1 Tim. 1:8-10. Those whites who chose to follow the evils of slavery killed 4000 men Jews, Catholics and Blacks from 1865 to 1965. Muslims still are killing Blacks, today. Not Europeans nor Indians. Indians were slave owners of Africans and other Indians. So stop blaming Europeans for everything. Some were my relatives. Some of the Indians were my relatives. Some of the Blacks were my relatives. This is 85% of Black Americans today. Whites made Oprah one of the richest women in the world. Not Islam, but Americans of all other religions.
She didnt inherit nothing, but because of the freedoms in America a little, nappy headed pug nosed black girl from Mississippi has become one of the richest women in the world. Her own brains and abilities and intelligence
were the cause of her rise to fame. If she had been in Africa she would have been some Arab Muslims concubine or slave. Thank you white America. Today, many Black women are college grads. Black men are the victims of the "blame game" played on them by the race hustlers and Black Islam. They have the same gifts that Black women have, but many choose to not use it. Basketball and Football stars, singers, movie stars are all mostly Black men. Now a part Black man is the President of the greatest nation on earth. So the blame game is over. Black women are sick and tired of the Black man using it to remain underdogs and are moving on to marrying other races, because most Black women are sick and tired of being supportive of a group of men who choose that life. Black women supported Black men since before slavery and as soon as they get money and fame many marry other women as if we are nothing. Our younger women are seeing this and are rebelling and are telling the black men, "My Brother, It's over". SEE YA. I can do bad by myself."
Ahh at last a nice taqiya
Ahh at last a nice taqiya tactic to confound the issiues and qrandic verses, qrandic practices by the evil foot soldiers of the pimp allah.This pimp supplies girls in single digit ages to the arab masters.One by product of such a supply decides to post a drivel to confound the issues.
Does allah sanction sex with young girls? Yes or no?
Did the pedophilic rapist mo sleep with the girl ayesha at the age of 6 ? yes or no?
Are the evil foot soldiers of allah and the rapist pedophile mo , continuing the same at present? yes or not/
Do you find the evil act of sleeping with a child a disgusting habit? Yes or noo?
Do the evil scum bag moslems kill in the name of allah and pedophile rapist? yes or no?
Are the evil moslems murdering, raping and creating mayhem in kafir countries? Yes or no?
As soon as a clear yes or no answer is forthcoming to these questions, the discussion can be carried forward.There is absolutely no point in sugar coating the evil verses of qrand or the evil acts of the child molester rapist mo and the pimp allah.
Mr FartingOne, Thanks for
Mr FartingOne,
Thanks for your big nothing passage. Just apart from complaining it says nothing. That is called ranting. It is really hard to get the points out to answer you.
First of all I don't see any point here in your "colonial masters" concept. What exactly are you trying to say? Is it applicable in this context? It is all the time you guys are portraying west is conspiring against you and if someone asks how, you refer to colonial days or their colonial attitude in past. West is much out of their colonial ambition. Have you interacted with any western educated person? They talk about democracy and freedom expression. What your Islam is doing and trying to do is more of colonizations of Arab Imperialism. You force others to learn Arabic to understand Kork-on. People should wear, eat, drink you Arab fathers. We should also follow the law system called Sharia. What is it if no colonization?
This forum is Anti Islam. If you wish to condemn anything like polytheism then go to respective forum. Here it is logical only to defend your Quranic ass. We also don't care if someone here is exMuslim, Hindu, Christian or Jew. Religion is less of criteria in Joining forum. We come together and work together as we find a common thread of thought. We have no problem with it as they don't intend any harm to us. Their religion doesn't come in our way. As long as I'm to free to believe I wish to ( provided I don't harm them ), they don't have any problem. Similarly as long as they have same thought we are not offended. Is this the case with Islam? It is a cult of a mad man, who created it for his Imperialistic way.
If you think Gandhi is so great, then why didn't your breed followed him? Why did you caused Direct action day? Killed many in Moppillah Riots, Caliphate movement, Noakhali? Hindus didn't start it. Rather under influence of Gandhi, even after having rage, they tried to keep cool. Your people were taking the patience as sign of cowardice and continue on killing innocent unarmed people just like your MoHamMad did. You don't fee it is wrong as it is Sunnah for you and to follow a mad man is your obligation. Follow Gandhi tell your Jihadi Brothers to give up arms do Satygraha in Israel. Ask Bin Laden to go on Hunger Strike to protest against America. After this I'll also follow Islam. If you think they are black sheep in Islam. Then it seems like Islam is flock of black sheep. Then it is your obligation to first correct their path and tell outsiders to convert or accept your way.
From past comes the root and of it everyone should be proud esp when the forefathers have really done nothing wrong unlike islam. The heritage and cultural roots are from past. So if one wish to stick to the past what is wrong. Your breed asks to forget past, as they know the ghosts of pasts will haunt you. So you guys always say that forget past. You wish to kill others heritage. Why don't you quit your past and instead stopping applying the dark age laws.
Gandhi's wish was to submerge his ashes in all rivers in India, pakistan. Pak didn't accept it saying ashes of a Kafir not accepted. Where was your respect for Gandhi then? You know very well when ass is getting burnt, then you talk of peace, human right. That is why in these days when Americans are tearing your ass apart in Afghanistan, pak border, iraq, you talk of human rights. Similarly here you glorify Gandhi. When you have upper hand you won't hesitate to wipe a complete race. History holds witness.
For our freethinkers prejudice: Do you have any brain? Here are many ex-muslim, grown up in religious families and were devout Muslims. How come a prejudice come here?
Any sane person would not buy your argument of treason. What treason? So you mean to say once we convert to Islam we get to know some special secrets and you are afraid that one will harm Islam using this information? It is religion no war. You war Mongrel had the same point that is why he created this punishment. Once in Islam then we know real ugly face it and in order to go out and warn what we have seen is acting against this cult. It is was against Jews and Kafirs so it is obvious. Religions are most open in their thinking as they have to spread so they can't hold any secret. Only cultists do this. In the same law, all other religions must bring down your whole breed, as your forefathers did treason and you continue it against their original religion. So if you are converting someone to your religion then it means you are forcing him for treason against his original religion. Then what is wrong if he chagnes his religion to something other. First of all this come into picture, if you could prove a mad man really lived his life like Prophet. If not then his word could not be applicable as word of God.
What the fuck!!! your is not well organized propoganda. I can bet you are from Joker Naik's IRF. Your Arab father are pouring money into glorifying Kork-On and MoHamMad. many Kork-onic reasearch istitutes are established. Many mullas, Imams and so called scholars are funded just to debate with others, gloriy your ass and prove Korky science. Yours is the most well planned, well funded effort.
no matter how many good
no matter how many good logical explanations these chootiya mullahs give, i dont know wut drives their mind to have sex / even think of marriage with single digit age girls....????
and if thats not enough, they got explanation to defend this issue!!!!wow!!!
how can these bastards get an erection while sleeping with these sweet innocent little creatures?
I don't understand why god
I don't understand why god told him to marry her and that to at age of 6. What calamity would have caused if he had done it after few years? What was emergency in having sex with her at 9? Medical science says it is not healthy, then how come Kork-on stays on time test? One explained me, the babies and single digit girls are very soft and tight. This is really sick mentality. A criminal who has all things in front of him, who enjoyed every possible thing on earth, craves for more. The criminal mostly finds pleasure in doing illegal things and those which are prohibited by general law and custom. In doing this he also is trying to prove a point that he is above everything and very much engrossed in his self praise and self obsession. It gives a psychopathy a Kick. He gets thrill out of it and pleasure of doing bad thing and getting out successfully without getting caught. Mo mad man shows similar trend. This is a way of feeling power. This is the only answer that comes to my mind.
With teaching from such a mad psychopath what do you think will come out? They are obligated to follow him. They see all his doing right, justify themselves in their mind and starts thinking it is the only right way. Through practice taking their mind to be a psychopath.
thin which surprise me most,
thin which surprise me most, they have logic to defend child sex!!!!!
zakir naik said girl start menses since the age of 11 or 12 i dont remember, which means allah made them ready to produce babies...
agreed they can produce, but dont they need maturity to handle babies,husband,family...? but if u see islam they think woman dont have brains, so que of mature islamic woman dont arise...
i dont mind woman being used as sex object in islam,and indirectly indicating that everytime u see a woman u shud have a hard on,and so on...
but child sex?????????? ewwwwwwwwwww .......... how can the thought of sex even arise in mind by seeing little child and that also single digit age girls!!!!
hi all,eytha guru thatha
hi all,eytha guru thatha shisha!!!!in other words master shows the way,followers follow!!!!.Kids,God leave them alone.Guys see how the political leaders(not islamic scholars) in islam show the way to their followers in pakistan. see the video and comment please with the choicest words on the present pm of pakistan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBy_OIJM6Q
in the name of allah most
in the name of allah most sexful....
nice...for a sec i thot i was been taped..hehe
#44 Muhammad wanted her as a
#44 Muhammad wanted her as a baby in blankets. And the old pedo wanted another baby named umm. Iranian Ayatollah said men can sex a two month old baby, animals, smoke weed but no wine drinks.
On Bare Naked Islam, a picture of a Black woman with the breast cut off after the men raped her and her baby and left the baby to die and be eaten by hyenas in Sudan (Land of the Blacks ruled by Arabs). 2 million Blacks have been killed raped, enslaved. crucified, demeaned, and robbed.
Evil minds of Islam.
Any which you look Islam is
Any which you look Islam is evil
Any which way you read, Islam is evil.
Any which way you practice, Islam is evil.
The followers of this evil are nothing but evil, notwithsatnding the rantings above of an evil follower of evil prophet.Rapist, pedophile, child molester.
raisin dick and proud kafir,
raisin dick and proud kafir, do u guys think by any chance mummad did it with animals also?
hi AML, i heard the
hi AML,
i heard the arabs used camels.i am not sure.just hear say.