Shaming the Shameless Apologists of Islam-II Predestination in Islam
Submitted by Ibrahim Lone on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 02:55
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Predestination in Islam
By Ibrahim Lone
In the previous article of this series we took a peep into the meaning of apostasy in Islam and the ramifications for apostates as a result of their faithlessness. We took a peek into the world of scholarly Islam to see what Islam really proposes as a fate for those who dare to leave its fortress.
In the second part of this series, we will look at what Predestination means in Islam. We will also look at the common arguments put forward by Islamic apologists and show the falsehood of their claims.
In fact, Muslims in the west these days, especially those who have converted from Christianity, use a lot of material from their former religion and try to make it look like that Islam believes that the God has given the ability to do good and bad deeds to all Humans and that they have a free will in this matter. However most Muslims, especially the ones who were born into Islam would consider this as an affront. Simply because saying that God, or Allah, has given humans the authority to choose their good and bad actions means they have the ability to choose Heaven or Hell for themselves. This would amount to infringing on the rights of the Almighty Allah who has the power over all human beings, their destinies and their lives. In fact the importance of predestination in Islam can be understood by the following Ayah in the Quran:
Qur'an 97:1 "We have revealed it (the Qur'an) in the Night of Predestination."
Let us also look at the following Hadith by Bukhari
Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 473
Narrated 'Ali:
While we were in a funeral procession in Baqi Al-Gharqad, Allah's Apostle came and sat down, and we sat around him. He had a small stick in his hand and he bent his head and started scraping the ground with it. He then said, "There is none among you, and no created soul but has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell-Fire, and also has his happy or miserable fate (in the Hereafter) written for him." A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we depend upon what is written for us and give up doing (good) deeds? For whoever among us is destined to be fortunate (in the Hereafter), will join the fortunate peoples and whoever among us is destined to be miserable will do such deeds as are characteristic of the people who are destined to misery." The Prophet said, "Those who are destined to be happy (in the Hereafter) will find it easy and pleasant to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to happiness, while those who are to be among the miserable (in the Hereafter), will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to misery." Then he recited: 'As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and believes in the Best reward from Allah, We will make smooth for him the path of ease. But he who is a greedy miser and thinks himself self sufficient, and gives the lie to the Best reward from Allah we will make smooth for him the path for evil.' (92.5-10)
So, we can see here how important the theory of Predestination is for Muslims. Of course modern, or shall I say shallow, Muslims who know absolutely nothing about their religion and get their information from second hand sources, vehemently deny Predestination and brag that Allah has given the choice to every person to choose between Heaven and Hell. However, I would rather not stop here for being accused misquoting or cherry Picking, few hadiths out of context. Rather let's go forward and see how far Predestination goes as far as Islamic theology is concerned. Let us take the example of the following two hadith:
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 430
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud:
Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise.
Weren’t we made to understand by the apologists that to do good or evil is in the hands of humans ( I am not even discussing unscientific part which tells us how conception takes place)? Weren’t we supposed to understand that in Islam everyone gets a fair chance to strive and do good deeds in order to reach Paradise? But why blame someone, when Allah, the Islamic deity, has sealed his fate even before he or she was born? So in effect, no person has the ability to choose Paradise or hell for himself. It has already been predestined as to how his actions will be in this world and he acts accordingly. So why blame a person for his actions? Or why even have a set of rules for punishment when one is doing what he is predestined to do?
Sounds strange, doesn’t it? Sadly most so called modern Muslims don’t spend quality time with the authentic sources of Islam. What they do is to watch Islamic TV channels, read propaganda material, and then spew out the same nonsense that they learn therein. It’s a shame actually that Muslims have to lie so much, deny so much of their scriptures, in order to gain concerts, or merely even justify their deity and his words.
In fact the theory of predestination holds such importance in Islam that it was actually written down by Tabari in the following words:
Tabari I:202 "There are people who consider predestination untrue. Then they consider the Qur'an untrue.... People merely carry out what is a foregone conclusion, decided by predestination and written down by the Pen."
Predestination is not limited to the life of an individual, but rather to the world. This can be better understood by the following ayats in the Qur’an:
Qur'an 70:1 "A questioner questioned concerning the doom about to fall upon the infidels, which none can avert or repel."
Well, I would like to ask Muslims here this question: Why scorn a non-Muslim, when he has been predestined by the God of the Muslims, Allah, to go and burn in a lake of fire.
Qur'an 64:11 "No calamity occurs, no affliction comes, except by the decision and preordainment of Allah."
The catch words in this ayah are decision and pre-ordainment. Therefore, if people happen to die (including Muslims) in a tragedy, natural or man- made, the Muslims don’t have the right to cry over it or even express remorse as it would be as much as blasphemy. Simply because if they died, then it was the direct result of Allah’s will which manifested itself in the form of their misery. Hence, I appeal to Muslims to stop crying over Gaza and every where they believe that Muslims are suffering. After all they are in a direct conflict with the words of their God.
In conclusion I would sum up that anytime a Muslim comes up and tells you that salvation in Islam is possible through one’s deeds, just show him those Qur’anic verses and Hadiths. I am certain that they will never accept the truth, yet you will be able to silence them for the moment. It is high time that we started slamming back the lies that Muslims throw at our faces. Let us stop taking their lies at face value and start giving them a potion of their own medicine.
How ignorant you are. Even
How ignorant you are. Even the word 'predestination' (qadar in Arabic) you use here is a translation. When you translate according to what you understand the word to mean in your language then you are bound to make out the meaning similarly as you understand it in your language. If predestination in Islam is what you understand it in your language, then there is no use for God to create man. No use for man to make any effort, to work and to do other things, since everything is predestined & decided for you. What is meant by predestination here is the outcome of each one's doings.It should be understood in its scientific sense. Its like Newton's law of gravity.
And for you to say this is totally wrong:
"In fact, Muslims, especially those who have converted from Christianity to Islam in the West these days use a lot of material from their former religions and try to make it look like Islam believes that the God has given the ability to do good and bad deeds to all Humans and that they have a free will in these matter. However most Muslims, especially the ones who are born into Islam would consider this as an affront. Simply because saying that God or Allah has given Humans the authority to choose their good and bad actions gives them the authority to choose Heaven or Hell for themselves."
Totally wrong. I am born a Muslim. Never been converted from any other religion. Yet yes, I say that God has given us the freedom to decide & to choose to do good things or bad. Yes, if God has already decided what our fate should be, then why is there a need for a hell?... since its not anyone's fault for doing bad. Only the bad go to hell. THINK. Don't just attack Islam to satisfy your lust or hatred of Islam. You are excused for being ignorant. Learn more. M
Learn more about Islam, mix
Learn more about Islam, mix more with Muslims from around the world. Then talk.
Abang, Assuming though not
Abang,
Assuming though not agreeing to what you have said about meaning lost in translation, should allah, the all knowing fella have also given translated versions of the revelations as is done by even "lowly" humans like governments in Western countries for the benefit of those who cannot understand English.
Did allah not know that there are thousands of languages spoken in the world and there would be confusion when translating from arabic to those languages.
Isn't kind of stupid of allah to first create so many languages and then create more confusion by using a langauge which the world does not understand. I mean. even here, you have to use english, the language of the infidels.
The systems that you are using are built using the language of the infidels by the infidels. Can there be a bigger irony than this?
"The catch words in this ayah
"The catch words in this ayah are decision and pre-ordainment. Therefore if people happen to die (including Muslims) in a tragedy, natural or man- made, the Muslims don’t have the right to cry over it or even express remorse as it would be as much as blasphemy. Simply because if they died, then it was the direct result of Allah’s will which manifested itself in the form of their misery. Hence, I appeal to Muslims to stop crying over Gaza and every where they believe that Muslims are suffering. After all they are in a direct conflict with the words of their God."...
You forget that for every CAUSE there is an EFFECT. and for every EFFECT there has been a CAUSE. and that every human being, INCLUDING Muslims are accountable in the hereafter for their choice of causes that has resulted in whatever effect.
Pre-ordainment as you understand it in you minute human faculty of mind is not similar to the pre-ordainment that is stated in the Qur'an. The Pre-ordainment that is stated in the Qur'an has to do with the fact that nothing escapes God's Knowledge.
3. focussed Says: February
3. focussed Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Abang,
Assuming though not agreeing to what you have said about meaning lost in translation, should allah, the all knowing fella have also given translated versions of the revelations as is done by even “lowly” humans like governments in Western countries for the benefit of those who cannot understand English.
Did allah not know that there are thousands of languages spoken in the world and there would be confusion when translating from arabic to those languages.
Isn’t kind of stupid of allah to first create so many languages and then create more confusion by using a langauge which the world does not understand. I mean. even here, you have to use english, the language of the infidels.
The systems that you are using are built using the language of the infidels by the infidels. Can there be a bigger irony than this?
==============================================
There is no irony. You are born to serve Allah and it is your duty to get to know Allah. So seek and you shall find. God created different races ( & with it comes the natural biological, geographical and cultural outcomke for them to speak in different languages, among other things) so that they will get to know each other and learn. Nothing is given on a silver platter. Seek and you shall find, no matter what the hindrances & obstacles. A gem is not that easy to get, otherwise it will not be considered a gem.
It just is a fact that the
It just is a fact that the Qur'anic Arabic fulfills what is intended to be communicated to us humans what is really meant. Languages are borrowed by humans from one another (I'm not an Arab myself). So, learn the classical Qur'anic Arabic and you (InsyaAllah, God willing) will get the classical knowledge.
Unfortunately many Arabs do
Unfortunately many Arabs do not realise what they have got. This does not however make Arabs any more superior or special than other Muslims or human beings, with due respect and love to the holy prophet from & through whom Islam was communicated from God Almighty.
Abang, Should you not let me
Abang,
Should you not let me decide whether I am born to serve allah or not? and if i decide not to, why should you impose your beliefs on me? it may be your duty to serve allah and to get to know him but if in the process of serving your allah, you trample upon my rights, then i have every right to question your allah don't I?
As long as your service to allah is confined to the walls of your home, fine with me but the moment you take it out on the street, it is my duty to question you as you are using a public space for your personal beliefs.
Your allah or should i say mohammad because it was he who abused allah by quoting the terror manual in his name tells you to kill infidels. Is that part of the process as well??
"God created different races ( & with it comes the natural biological, geographical and cultural outcomke for them to speak in different languages, among other things) so that they will get to know each other and learn."
but isn't islam trying to reverse all that humans have gained over so far. Kids are forced to learn arabic more than their mother tongue, cultural symbols are destroyed, other faiths are trampled and crushed, temples are destroyed and yet you are talking about diversity.
Why would God create diversity first and then try to bring in uniformity ?isn't it sad that muslims in erstwhile non-muslims countries give themselves arabic names denying the very basis of your arguments.
Phew! for a minute there, I
Phew! for a minute there, I thought the Editor had banned Aminah's ass.
Glad to see that you are stil here Aminah!
Cheers!
Editor, please block this
Editor,
please block this forum terrorist called A-MIM. (S)he is spamming and ruining any meaningful discussion.
Abang,
You said, i should learn classical arabic to truly understand what is there in Quran.
But I can never learn classical arabic because for learning arabic, i will have to translate arabic to the langauge i know and the cycle continues. Where does the cycle break?
Many arab based islamic scholars have translated Quran and Hadiths and if their translations are not acceptable to you then how can you accept my translations.
Crux:
The gist of the matter is that this is a ploy to deceive the gullible into thinking that islam preaches something which it does not .. e.g it is ploy to teach people that islam is a religion of peace when infact it is a relgion of deceit, betrayal, hate and stealth wars(ghuzwahs? 78 of them by prophet).
islam promotes equality between men and women when infact is promotes inequality. Why should only women wear hijab? can't women get sexually aroused on seeing muslim men without veils? Why can men beat (however mildly) women? why women's witness is 1/2 of a man?
islam gives freedom to choose one's religion when infact the choice is between islam, death and dhimmi.
i can go on and on..
The Qur’an teaches that
The Qur’an teaches that majority may not be granted (6:116). Can not understand the meaning of this ! does it mean moscums are in minority they can dcitate terms to the majority?
The Qur’an teaches that Islam is for everyone yeh to use as a toilet tissue!
The Qur’an encourages men to give dower to women as free gift whom they marry ! Yeh a man is buying the vagina of the woman as a woman is awrah! and nothing more and nothing less.women are treated equally as men is qrand.Hey give me another one.A passing dog, donkey, woman and farting anull the prayers of a man! A man's fart is a woman! A man's titlh is a woman.A man's right hand possession is a vagina.
I really do not know how this qrand can be even considered as readable.Its fit to be toilet tissue
Iran is one country where
Iran is one country where prostitution is legalised per islamic scriptures.
People can get marriage contracts anywhere from 10 minutes to 10 months to 10 years and no prizes for guess, most of these contracts are for one night stands or for a good fuck. and yet islam is the greatest religion, the true religion .
Jawaz al mutta marriage for
Jawaz al mutta marriage for pleasure! A concept of the rapist peodphile prophet! When the follwers confronted the rapist as to what they should do ( about their sexula urge)when they are away on gazwah and travelling ? By now prophet had banned sex between unmarried people and that was a common practice amongst arabs during those days. The rapist had no option but to concoct this mutta marriage.Even today sodis and other arabs have a high incidence of sexually transmitted diseases.Though sodi barbaria has banned direct flights between bangcock( Pun intended) and riyadh that has not reduced the STD incidence.Sunnis say mutta marriage is a shia concept ans shias say its a sunny concept. Both of them routinely have STDs due to this mutta ( pleasure) marriage.One of sodi friends asked me if mutta marriage is for pleasure, what is ordinary marriage for? I replied for head aches! we both had good laugh over a few pegs of Blue label whisky!
In a simple word author is
In a simple word author is Ignorant he requires more depth by this sort of article the very purpose of this site good luck for next time
Recently I had the
Recently I had the misfortune/ fortune of interacting with a bollywood actors' father in law a Moslem of course.
I was astonished to hear from a fairly educated? liberal moslem that joos are behind the mumbai tragedy! Give us abreak.This is the typical mentality of moscums.Here is a moslem who has all his life earned and amassed wealth from infidels and blames joos! The tragedy of india is not over yet.if this is the mentality of the so called liberal moscum bag imagine the rest fo 150 million grabage.Only god/ allah can help india.
Moscums remain moscums.See the warped mind of these guys.The allh pimp and rapist mohammad have really screwed the minds of these people.
Abang said You forget that
Abang said
You forget that for every CAUSE there is an EFFECT. and for every EFFECT there has been a CAUSE. and that every human being, INCLUDING Muslims are accountable in the hereafter for their choice of causes that has resulted in whatever effect.
We are discussing Islam here and not Newtonian Physics. What I have said is from the Qur'an and the sunnah. Dont make your own additions here. If you have proof from the Qur'an and or the Sunah bring it here.
There is no irony. You are born to serve Allah and it is your duty to get to know Allah. So seek and you shall find. God created different races ( & with it comes the natural biological, geographical and cultural outcomke for them to speak in different languages, among other things) so that they will get to know each other and learn. Nothing is given on a silver platter. Seek and you shall find, no matter what the hindrances & obstacles. A gem is not that easy to get, otherwise it will not be considered a gem.
Who the hell told you that I was born to serve a blood thirsty deity and dont you dare to talk to me like that. I did not ask for your advice as to who I should be worshiping and who not and if I should be worshiping someone at all. This is about Predestination so stick to the topic. Rest of what you have written is gobbledygook.
How ignorant you are. Even the word ‘predestination’ (qadar in Arabic) you use here is a translation. When you translate according to what you understand the word to mean in your language then you are bound to make out the meaning similarly as you understand it in your language. If predestination in Islam is what you understand it in your language, then there is no use for God to create man. No use for man to make any effort, to work and to do other things, since everything is predestined & decided for you. What is meant by predestination here is the outcome of each one’s doings.It should be understood in its scientific sense. Its like Newton’s law of gravity.
Yes I know the word for Predestination in Arabic is Qadar. I am not hear to learn Arabic grammar from you. Moreover FFI is meant for an English speaking audience and not an Arab audience. What you are saying is mere drivel. Arabic is like any other language which can be very well be translated.
Totally wrong. I am born a Muslim. Never been converted from any other religion. Yet yes, I say that God has given us the freedom to decide & to choose to do good things or bad. Yes, if God has already decided what our fate should be, then why is there a need for a hell?… since its not anyone’s fault for doing bad. Only the bad go to hell. THINK. Don’t just attack Islam to satisfy your lust or hatred of Islam. You are excused for being ignorant. Learn more. M
Did anybody ask you if you are a born Muslim or a convert or whatever. And yes by the way its you who are ignorant and not me. You write Inshallah as Inshyaallah and then you expect me to take you seriously. Perhaps you do not know the importance of pronouncing Arabic correctly. Take care lest God Willing be translated to something and Allah gets angry with you!
Anyway I excuse you for being a kid who does not understand either Arabic or Islam.
Learn more about Islam, mix
Learn more about Islam, mix more with Muslims from around the world. Then talk.
lol, yes I can see how much you know about islam. Islam can only be learned from the texts of Islam. By saying what you have, you are somehow implying that every Muslim understand fully well and practices it too. So thank you for reinforcing our claim that all Muslims are either terrorists or potential terrorists.
Abang (Yet yes, I say that
Abang
(Yet yes, I say that God has given us the freedom to decide & to choose to do good things or bad)
Tell us abang, what is the basis of making this assertion. What is the basis of deciding good or bad (is it koranic ayats)? There are people who doubt this theory of God for lack of any concrete evidence. What is the place of such people in Islamic society?
So your belief called Islam is just an escape from fundamental doubt. Is there God? You already take it for granted that it is Allah without actually any proof. This theory covers up your doubt, and it gives you a sense of relief, a false confidence that you know, although deep down you still know that you don`t.
A moslim is always in a state of conflict because there is doubt here and Koran is so binding there. He is schizophrenic and has Koran to guide. A small thing goes against his belief -- and he is up in arms. This ugliness of a Moslem gives life to a site like this.
Also, if allah is the creator of the Islamic world, you cannot improve upon it even with all the freedom. If you do anything you can only harm it, afterall you cannot be wiser than allah.
(Learn more about Islam, mix more with Muslims from around the world.)
Are you sure it is a good idea knowing fully well what muslims do to unsuspecting kafirs. And are you suggesting that every muslim is necessarily so well versed in Islam to impart more knowledge?
Every muslim like you has a bias towards fellow muslims that works blindly, like you have just shown here. If you open your eyes, you will see where the scope of improvement lies.
Abangh said Unfortunately
Abangh said
Unfortunately many Arabs do not realise what they have got. This does not however make Arabs any more superior or special than other Muslims or human beings, with due respect and love to the holy prophet from & through whom Islam was communicated from God Almighty.
lol, I can hardly control my laughter at your ignorance, but then you spell Inshallah as Insyallah, so I guess I can excuse your ignorance. Folks this is for you, let us see the racist nature of islam with our ouw eyes
Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Number 163:
Narrated Salim's father:
The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling in Mahai'a. I interpreted that as (a symbol of) epidemic of Medina being transferred to Mahai'a, namely, Al-Juhfa."
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 662:Narrated Anas:The Prophet said, “Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief.”
Tabari II:11 "Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the BLACK Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African's color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks."
Tabari II:21 "Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them."
(Sahih Muslim Hadith; vol.9:162,163: Muhammad warned that dreams of black women meant disease was forthcoming.
Mr./Ms. Bang bang
Mr./Ms. Bang bang wrote,
Do you believe allah is all knowing and that allah created everybody out of nothing ?
If you answer yes to both of the above questions, then allah knew that he created a soul and/or human being destined for hell when he created them out of nothing.
So your allah, who is allegedly omniscient for all eternity, already pre-destined certain souls for hell even before he created them.
Even though a soul may deserve to go to hell, What kind of sadistic god will knowingly create a soul destined for hell out of nothing ? Why would any god, who is allegedly merciful and infinitely intelligent do such sadistic acts ?
At the least two Semitic/Abrahamic religions believe in pre-destination, as they believe in creation-ex-nihilo and that their God(s) are omniscient.
Well focussed, at least AMIM
Well focussed, at least AMIM is spamming his own Quran and not other's holy text. That's an improvement, ain't it?
continuum1, at your very
continuum1, at your very first line you make fun of his name when abang didn't do nothing to you. And you expect an answer?
[Quote abang] Yes, if God has
[Quote abang]
Yes, if God has already decided what our fate should be, then why is there a need for a hell?
[/Quote]
You can't be more wrong to form you notion base on the premise that there is no contradiction in Quran when there are. My suggestion to you would be don't make a fool out of yourself. try to see the facts as they really are rather than being in denial out of fear of hell.
A bang said How ignorant
A bang said
How ignorant you are. Even the word ‘predestination’ (qadar in Arabic) you use here is a translation. When you translate according to what you understand the word to mean in your language then you are bound to make out the meaning similarly as you understand it in your language. If predestination in Islam is what you understand it in your language, then there is no use for God to create man. No use for man to make any effort, to work and to do other things, since everything is predestined & decided for you. What is meant by predestination here is the outcome of each one’s doings.It should be understood in its scientific sense. Its like Newton’s law of gravity.
Exactly that is my point, there is no use for creation according to your deity allah. he just creates and then makes their destinies for them even before they are born and then he decides to send them to hell. That is why your Illiterate prophet wrote in the Qur'an":
And Allah's is the direction of the way, and some (roads) go not straight. And had He willed He would have led you all aright. (16:9)
So you see if someone is going the wrong it is according to allah's will. Till your deity does not will (as per your islam) no1can go to paradise) hence the power of sending people to heaven or hell, is upto the whims and fancies of your deity whom you call allah.
As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end! (2:126)
See your deity is so confused, fisrt he says that he decides who believes or disbelieves, then he threatens them will hell for disbelieving.
Lo! those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them, neither will He guide them unto a road, Except the road of hell, wherein they will abide for ever. And that is ever easy for Allah.(4:168-169)
..... and that is easy for allah, yes everything that sucks to the mind of even those who are mentally weak, is easy for your deity.
Totally wrong. I am born a Muslim. Never been converted from any other religion. Yet yes, I say that God has given us the freedom to decide & to choose to do good things or bad. Yes, if God has already decided what our fate should be, then why is there a need for a hell?… since its not anyone’s fault for doing bad. Only the bad go to hell. THINK. Don’t just attack Islam to satisfy your lust or hatred of Islam. You are excused for being ignorant. Learn more. M
Born muslim, huh! can you tell me on what basis you say that your deity has given you the freedom to choose? Are you an incarnate of Imam Tabari or Isaq that we have to listen to what you think. You as a Muslim don't have the liberty to think. You can just act on what is given to you in your books.
By the way isn't it true that Allah does not share his power with anybody? He does not even share his attributes with anybody. So if the most powerful shares an attribute with you, A bang, then I guess you will have to say astafirullah at least a 100 times such that your deity forgives you.
You have just committed blasphemy by saying that allah shares his power with you.
Continunum 1 man, can you
Continunum 1
man, can you tell me as to how you o those tricks with the apostrophized and putting some stuff in bold letters? I dont have that option on my page and I would love to have those options.
You mean to tell me that all
You mean to tell me that all my efforts of thousands of times doing Wudu was a waste of time? Well, it was. Mr. Lone proved that precestination is rooted in Islam. This means, no matter what you do, it does not really matter. If Allah predestined you to hell, there is no way out. Thank you author for this article supported by condemning evidence.
focussed
focussed wrote:
"Abang,
Assuming though not agreeing to what you have said about meaning lost in translation, should allah, the all knowing fella have also given translated versions of the revelations as is done by even “lowly” humans like governments in Western countries for the benefit of those who cannot understand English.
Did allah not know that there are thousands of languages spoken in the world and there would be confusion when translating from arabic to those languages.
Isn’t kind of stupid of allah to first create so many languages and then create more confusion by using a langauge which the world does not understand. I mean. even here, you have to use english, the language of the infidels.
The systems that you are using are built using the language of the infidels by the infidels. Can there be a bigger irony than this?"
We Christians have saying: Many langauges, one word, meaning the word of God is the same in any language translation. It would be stupid for Allah to keep his word only in the Arabic language, when there are many people in the world who don't speak Arabic and nor do they have the education or the opportunities to learn Arabic. Therefore it would make sense for the Quran to be translated into many languages in order for all people to understand. Also just because the Quran is translated into another language, does not mean it's meaning will be lost. Like other religious books, the Quran can be understood well in any language.
abang wrote:
"Pre-ordainment as you understand it in you minute human faculty of mind is not similar to the pre-ordainment that is stated in the Qur’an. The Pre-ordainment that is stated in the Qur’an has to do with the fact that nothing escapes God’s Knowledge."
What you are referring to is omniscient (Having universal knowledge, knowing all things, infinitely knowing or wise, ) and it not the same as pre-ordainment or predestination. Pre-ordainment means everything has already been predetermined.
I remember someone was saying
I remember someone was saying that islam offers freedom to religion. This is the freedom that islam offers to its apostates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtrMjtRvLeI
[b]This is a test to see if i
[b]This is a test to see if i can bold a sentence.[/b]
Going for bold again.
Going for bold again.
:cry:
:cry:
i guess we should wait for
i guess we should wait for continuum to reply back
okay i got it. Just use
okay i got it. Just use simple html tags to format your text.
use
use
crap use "blockquote"
crap
use "blockquote" command within "" and ""
crap again.... use
crap again....
use "blockquote" within ""
use "less than symbol and
use "less than symbol and greater than symbol" to enclose the command "blockquote" as shown by learning in 29th post, instead of square brackets.. For some reason I cannot use the "less than" or "greater than" symbols... It does not appear in the comment... so replace square brackets with "less than" or "greater than" symbols..
"[blockquote]........[/blockquote]"
same for "b" command as
same for "b" command as well..
continuum1, at your very
LOL....I could not resist the temptation after seeing his username.... I apologize to "Abang", the elderly gentleman....
if you want to use less than
if you want to use less than symbol, you have to use < (& l t) without spaces
oops it did not work..
oops it did not work..
Abang probably you will be
Abang probably you will be needed more. Muslims need to make a serious attempt as to where they are wrong and where others have percieved them wrong.
Now to the article. May I ask the author, how does it matter if its predestination or not?
If the catholics go around in poorer countries and in return of Money and medicines offer christ as salvation then are they any better. They are at least making sure that the destinies of these poor people are linked to Christ.
I mean guys first of the all the thing that strikes me about this website is the total stream of unmoderated messages.....half the time people sneer and jeer at each other.
I mean lets truly have debates and the best guy explain his stand. Mind it I have allready said that I do not like the conservatist approach in the Islamic society currently but then I am 100% convinced that Islam is not guilty as you guys make it to be. It is like any religion. Once people are out of the clutch of conservatists then they tend to see society in a better modern way. Other religions reached their faster because they are older. Islam being one of the most recent additions need to reach there.
Now second thing is the articles. Why Muslims dont dance? Why Muslim apologists talk of destiny/predestiny? Come on. Are all westerners good dancers. I have seen some of them dance as well. And if a man decided his destiny then why do some babies die at time of birth.
Guys, I sincerely want that an interfaith dialogue should be there based on mutual respect. Islam gave the world sufism. If the Muslims today are deviating from moderate stands its because they are being fed an opium of hate and perpetual victimhood. This makes them deny situations where they are wrong. They need to be seperated from that poison. Your stand only reaffirms their position that Islam is in danger.
Wasim, I don't think anyone
Wasim,
I don't think anyone has disrespected you and I don't think anyone will because your behaviour has been impeccable till now.
There are some who might be propagating their own religion but I don't think this website tries to advance one religion over another. The only purpose of this website is exposing islam and I am sure there are lot of stupid things in all other religions but this is not the place to discuss those. Two wrongs don't make a right and therefore evil and stupidity cannot be justified in islam because of similar things in other religions more so because it claims to be the only true religion.
Why some babies die at birth
I don't think that has anything to do with god. It is a simple bio-chemical reaction gone wrong wherein either one or more vital organs of that person become non-functional.
Probably what we should do is try to explain what death is?
You can find so many medical websites giving the types of death.
Mind you, if a dead body is left as is in a pollution free environment, some organs/cells continue to grow for sometime like hair, nails and skin as well for quite a bit of time.
Why Muslims don't dance
I guess the reference a person would have been trying to make is towards hate for anything cultural than everyone dancing. Most strict implementors of Sharia block most of the entertainment. I was even surprised to learn that even chess is banned per islamic sharia.
Sufism and Islam
islam did not give world sufism and besides all sufis were not so gentle as has the case been made out to be of late. There is a nice article by Ibrahim Lone on sufism http://islam-watch.org/Ibrahim.Lone/Sufis-of-India-Villains-in-the-Guise....
I am not denying that there are quite a few muslims who are good but that does not mean islam is good.
Sufis are and can be as evil
Sufis are and can be as evil as the rest of islamic world is.Strangely sufis are considered as kafirs by Sodi barbarians.Now dont tell me sodi's do not know their islam! Some time back an idiotic indian moslem commented saying sodi barbarians do not know proper islam and they are practicing wrong islam. I request that fellow to go to sodi barbaria and declare that sodis do not know islam and that they are practicing wrong islam! Moslems lie, cheat and do all kind s of things in kafir land as allah allows them to do so .No wonder prisons in kafir land are full of of ? moslems and that too pious moslems if you please.
Each moslem thinks another group or person is practicing wrong islam and so is a kafir.Kafir means easy target to kill, rape and cheat. Every moscum has the blessing of allah the pimp to do just that to kafirs with impunity and a clear conscience. Rapist pedophile mohammad and his pimp allah dalal are evil to the core.Followers of this pimp dalal and rapist are equally evil.
This is gonna be out of
This is gonna be out of topic.
I saw FFI is now very much slipped into Christian propaganda.
Good mornin' folks, I'm
hehehe....lookit! lookit! I
hehehe....lookit! lookit! I didit!....hehehe....
for those who wanna know i used type your sentence or copy and paste and then use but do not use the "i" as I have put it in so that it doesn't come out as above
sorry the "less than"
sorry the "less than" iblockquote"greater than" ......."less than"i/blockquote"greater than" sign didn't appear to demonstrate my point
ookie, now going for gold
ookie, now going for gold
Wah,hahaha.....thanks very
Wah,hahaha.....thanks very much continuum1. :)