I Am Your Latest Apostate

Welcome Shoaib to the free world.. let us know if you need any help

welcome to humanity......

This is going out of topic but nostalgia overcomes me. During my primary school days, I recall reading about the great warrior Rostam who won every battle he was in. He longed for a son but was unlucky in that area. One day his wife gave birth to a son and she thought, "Surely my husband will train him up as a warrior and one day he would get killed."

So she sent her baby far, far away and exchanged it for a baby girl. Rostam was not so happy when he found out that he had a baby girl but nevertheless, he accepted it. So come one day, the brave general grew old and retired.

Some years later, his country was in deep trouble and was in danger of being conquered. No one could stand up to the enemy's general. So they drafted old Rostam into battle and the two opponents met in a battle-field and fought from dawn till dusk. Rostam was exhausted. He gathered all his strength for the last do-or-die push and charged his enemy. He shouted his famous battle- cry...."ROSTAMMM!!!!" and with all his might, he dealt his ememy the death blow with his schemitar.

When the enemy heard his cry, he frozed and stuttered, "Rostam...my father..."
Well folks, u can guess the rest.

And Rostam carried back the dead body of his son for burial.

Islam has held muslims victim for 1400 years. If you read history to this very day the majority of muslims who have been murdered and brutalized and continue to be so have been at the hands of other muslims. Islam is nothing but an ideology of hate and fear, and to the western leaders who keep repeating the dumb phrase ' islam is peaceful' I say this. 'You are contributing to the deaths of muslims as well as non muslims' .

hi, Ali

your efforts to make apostates are on upsurge..But your approach is naive and fallible when it comes to recognize the sufferings of palestenians.When our imaam engineer evenafter becoming apostate puts his all islamic ,& western knowledge altogether and concludes that whatever isreal is doing now is Barbaric and inhuman..But you try to advocate isreal by a tricky tactic by showing video and trying to allege poor paletenians of makingsuch a fake video.. Do you think the whole world on B.B.C , & CNN are witnessing fake videos of isreals Barbarity..Your hate for muslims is very indepth and will drive you to a psycological problem and make you sadist...I repect your knowledge but don use it as you allege muslim apologists doing and making ad homienems..If you do so there will not be much difference between you and them.. Ali sina the advocate of humanity is a hater of muslims..don let people understand you like this...

With best regards
smartboy

Dear Ibrahim,

When you register in the english forum, i think you need to choose another password. I think u need one password for posting here and another for posting in the english forum. Give it a try.

cheers

Shoaib welcome into humanity. I wish all palestinians left islam for peace to have chance in the holy land. Peace.

Smartboy is not so smart after all..
If israel were really against palestinians, the population of palestenians would not have been growing at such a rate isn't smartboy?
probably how mature you are in world politics reflects in your name as well..
have you ever asked why hamas forces civilians to shield them, why hamas uses UN ambulances to transport its men? why the hamas security chief was moving around with his family when he knew that he is a target ?
the simple reason is hamas wants to use its civilians as a cannon fodder to gain sympathy of gullible masses like you..
why do terrorists have to fire only when Army is around civilians because they know that army is bound to retaliate and that leads to civilian deaths which leads to sympathies ..
you should start looking at the world through transparent glasses instead of islam tinted glasses..
why is your heart not bleeding for people in swat, for people in Somalia, for people in Darfur.. aren't the muslims being murdered there as well.
There are only two differences : the palestine, the civilian deaths are inspite of best efforts by IDF to avoid civilian casualties and in other places, the civilian deaths are intended..
the deaths in palestine are in defence of israel while as deaths in somalia are by arab muslims on african muslims..
i fail to understand why muslims have become slaves of arabs

This is another example of how muslim apologists prey on the minds of overwhelmingly ignorant and gullible masses. I just got it from one popular muslim website which is considered by them "honest and credible" and its pundits "Respected Islam scholars". One anonymous (whom I suspect is totally ignorant) is in desperate need of answers partaining to husband and wife relationship in the light of Islamic perspective (Quran):

Anonymous Question
Respected scholars, as-salamu `alaykum. If the husband wants to sleep with his wife but she does not want to and she is not sick and there is nothing wrong with her; she just does not like it, so he ends up sleeping with her by force, is this allowed in Islamic jurisprudence? Is this considered a kind of a rape? Today many self-styled Islamic clerics claim that this is totally permissible according to the authentic narrations of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Jazakum Allahu Khayran.

Answer by Mufti Zienab Mostafa (London):
"Wa `alaykum as-salamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Dear questioner, thanks a lot for your question which reflects your care to have a clear view of the teachings of Islam. Intimate relations are based on mutual feelings between the husband and wife. We learn from the example of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) that he was the best to his wives, and he never forced them to satisfy his sexual desire. Rather, he criticized those who immediately jump into sexual intercourse without introductions that enhance the feelings between the husband and wife. Therefore, intimate relations are not just acts to seek sexual gratification; rather they should strengthen the relationship between the couple.The wife’s refusal could be attributed to many reasons that the husband should be diligent enough to try and understand. Some of these reasons might be one of the following: her emotional state could be down, she might be expecting her monthly cycle which makes her irritated, she might not like the way her husband approaches her and she does not want to talk about it, and there could be other reasons as well. Therefore, the husband should take the initiative and try to figure out the reason behind his wife’s refusal. Open and gentle communication between the husband and wife is important and can help resolve this issue. Of course if the husband insists on sleeping with his wife by force, it would not be considered rape since this is a right granted to him, but it is also not in accordance with Islamic teachings. Such an act contradicts the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the ethics of intercourse. Gentleness and kindness are among the manners of intimate relations in Islam."

Well as you may have noticed the answer sounds very sweet as it is of expected from muslim dawagandists trying to defend islam by hook and crooks. But to a knowlegeable person, this reply is totaly contrary to Islam and Quran. First in her reply there is nowhere she backs here answer with a verse from quran or hadith. Secondly,one of the verses pertinent to these matters is Quran 2:223 which state "Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will, and send before you for your ownselves. And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him, and give good tidings to the believers" which means a wife has no option when it come to sex with her husband which translates to rape in modern societies.

"Why do you only attack Islam? I’ve seen your answers to this on the FAQ page of your website. But I don’t think it’s just Islam that promotes violence. Jewish people claim that they are the “chosen people” so therefore have the right to kill anyone who opposes them. They want a kingdom stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates. How can you support these people (as I notice you do), especially if your intention is rid humanity of faith based killings?"

Where does this belief come from? The Jews believe they are The Chosen People, but they do not believe this gives them license to kill.

The Jews do not want a kingdom, they want a home of their own to call. Many Jews are descendants of refugees from WWII Europe and descendants of persecuted Jews. The Jews returned to Israel to have a place to call their own without living in fear and to be around their fellow co-religionists. Also many Jews return to Israel because the land is special to their people.

"I still maintain Israel is an illegal, illegitimate state who is massacring thousands of unarmed Arabs (the same crime that you accuse Mohammad of)"

The Israelis do not want to kill innocent civilians and they try not to hit any places that are inhabited by civilians. It is Hamas who is responsible for killing innocent civilians, because they purposefully position themselves in heavily populated areas and use women and children as human shields.

If Israel is an illegal and illegitimate state then so is Palestine, which was handed over to the Muslims by the British to populate the area.

If this website only says that christianity is good and Islam is bad then its just a mere propaganda web site. Christians for many centuries were involved in violence with each other (Protestants and Catholics) Even to this day Catholics in poorer countries lure people to convert with money and medicines. Its not about religion. Its about politics and religion together. If you see catholics they are in no way less occupied worldwide in politicisation of their religion.

So where Islam is currently it is because of political Islam. I find Muslims at pain trying to defend even wrong Muslims. They just cant say Taliban is bad for example. They will remain mum if they find a Muslim is guilty. They are in clutches of their clergy.

See the Hindus in India. For many centuries Hinduism was never an organised religion. They had many saints, many books and they were very tolerant and now politicisation of their religion sees them in violence against Muslims and in few cases against Christians. They are losing what they were best known for. Gandhi and Buddha.

So please stop blaming Islam. It won't help. It will only make people to become more stupid. There will be many more defending in other web sites and other gullibles will fall in trap.

As I said in a different post, Prophet(PBUH) had to do a number of things because he was in between Arab tribals. He followed and made rules according to culture prevalent. The current issue with Muslims worldwide is that they just want to be back in that primitive world. So there is scope of improvement in Islam. There can be modernisation. It just needs to break away from its own church like christians did some time ago.

Dear wasim, thanks for your comments brother.
this site tells the truth about Islam. We are not on this site to preach other religion (although some do). The main purpose here is to tell the truth, just tell the truth about Islam. Did you know that Muhammad was an evil man. This is supported from the Qur'an, Ahadith, and Sirat. Check out this link brother and you'll realize why I am telling you that:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm

No need for you to respond now brother. Just take your time reading in that link. Peace

Wasim,
we are not suggesting that Christianity is the religion to follow. In most peoples opinion, all religions have evil in them but the problem with islam is that it creates evil.
You are defending islam by saying that mohammad had to do things because of the those times but can you please explain why he had to do following and what rules he was trying to establish
a) had sex with with 17 year old on the day he decapitated her husband
b) married a six year old and fucked her when she was 9
c) married his own daughter in law
d) kept concubines
e) kept slaves
f) made racist remarks against black people and jews.
g) beheaded a 700-900 peaceful jews in one day
h) turns a man against his son, a brother against his brother and a brother against cousin...
i) stoning to death people who turned apostates
g) treating women as objects.

The moment you say he framed rules according to culture present, you seem to suggest that you yourself do not believe in Quran and if some muslims especially in muslim dominated countries come to know what you have said will declare you an aspostate and kill you .
Wasn't Quran supposed to be the word of God for all mankind and for all times?
What do you expect a community to do when havoc is being wreaked on it month after month, day after day all in the name of islam?
MInd you, if christians were do defame mohammad in pakistan or any other muslim country, they would be legally prosecuted by the government with severe punishments like death and life imprisonment. Is that the case in India with Christians? NO. Besides, whenever there is violence in India by some hindu people in the name of relgion, there are 99% people who condemn them.. isn't it?
However, I do appreciate your view that Islam needs reform. Atleast you accept that it is perfect as most muslims seem to be deluded with..

Mohammed Alexander Russell Webb (1846-1916)

His father, Alexander Nelson Webb, was a leading journalist of his day and perhaps influenced his son’s later journalistic exploits.

Webb received his early education at the Home School in Glendale, Massachusetts and later attended Claverack College, an advanced high school near Hudson, New York. He became editor of the Unionville Republican, Unionville, Missouri. His prowess as a journalist was soon apparent, and he was offered the city editorship of the St. Joseph Gazette in St. Joseph, Missouri. Next he became associate editor of the Missouri Morning Journal. Later he became the Assistant City Editor of the Missouri Republican in St. Louis. This newspaper was the second oldest and largest daily newspaper at that time.

While working for the Missouri Republican, he was appointed (in September, 1887) by President Cleveland to be Consular Representative to the Philippines at the U.S. office at Manila. According to the editor of his book The Three Lectures, he had given up any concept of religion at least fifteen years before that point.

He started his life as a Presbyterian but found it dull and restraining. As early as 1881 he started a search for his true faith by reading in books from a well stocked library of over 13,000 volumes that he had access to. He started his study with Buddhism and finding it lacking, he began to study Islam. In 1888, he formally declared himself to be a Muslim. (Wikipedia)

The following is Muhammad Webb's account of his journey to Islam as reported in the abridged version of "Islam - Our Choice" published by Begum Aisha Bawani Wakf, Karachi, 1970.

I have been requested to tell you why I, an American, born in a country which is nominally Christian, and reared under the drippings, or more properly perhaps the driveling, of an orthodox Presbyterian pulpit, came to adopt the faith of Islam as my guide in life.

I might reply promptly and truthfully that I adopted this religion because I found, after protracted study, that it was the best and only system adapted to the spiritual needs of the humanity. And here let me say that I was not born as some boys seem to be, with a fervently religious strain in my character. When I reached the age of twenty, and became practically my own master, I was so tired of the restraint and dullness of the Church, that I wandered away from it and never returned to it.

Fortunately I was of an enquiring turn of mind - I wanted a reason for everything, and I found that neither laymen nor clergy could give me any rational explasm and monads (explanation of this faith), and yet not one of them could tell me what were mysterious or that they were beyond my comprehension.

About eleven years ago I became interested in the study of Oriental religions... I read Mill and Locke, Kant, Hegel, Fichte, Huxley, and many other more or less learned writers discoursing with a great show of wisdom concerning protoplasm and monads, and yet not one of them could tell me what the soul was or what became of it after death.

I have spoken so much of myself in order to show you that my adoption of Islam was not the result of misguided sentiment, blind credulity, or sudden emotional impulse, but it was born of earnest, honest, persistent, unprejudiced study and investigation and an intense desire to know the truth.

The essence of the true faith of Islam is resignation to the will of God [Allah] and its corner stone is prayer. It teaches universal fraternity, universal love, and universal benevolence, and requires purity of mind, purity of action, purity of speech and perfect physical cleanliness. It, beyond doubt, is the simplest and most elevating form of religion known to man.

Gary Busby from England reverts to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sWwEFA8kJs

AMIM,
just because some fool adopts islam does not make islam a religion of peace you idiot.. just goes to show how much deceived he has been.. truth will prevail and he will reject islam one day provided he is really reading and understanding islamic scriptures..
Tom Cruise is a scientologist .. does that make scientology the religion to follow? it does not.. you are completely brain dead unless you can answer the Ali Sina challenge..

Ibn, I do not believe that no Muslim has ever replied to that challenge. I am sure many must have. I am sure

Christian Priests and Missionaries Journey to Islam

http://www.thedeenshow.com/video.php?action=listvideo&id=44

http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm

Focussed, Much as I don't want to shy I only want to say that Muslims may have issues but why blame Islam?

Wasim,
you have brought up a very important point. We are not blaming muslims.. we are blaming islam. Muslims are doing as they are taught in their Quran and hadiths.. I have quite a few muslims who are my friends, colleagues and I like them. We used to drink tea from the same cup.
You seem a nice guy and I really appreciate that. You see I have no hate for muslims even though I lost my home because of muslims. but i also know that when i meet muslims individually they are some of the finest people you can get to know but the problems arise when they get together as a group spearheading islam.. and that is why we blame islam.
The moment you see the truth in islam, you realize how much hate it preaches.

A-MIM,
everyday you are hitting a new low. I think you should get yourself a brain scan. Just because mohammad declared himself prophet does not make him a prophet unless deluded people like you believe him to be...
You cannot even debate and yet you come back again and again. I think you should rather go and read your Quran or probably go and kill an infidel.. maybe you might get the 72 hourys and 28 pearly eyed boys, in case you are gay ,in paradise..

[Just because mohammad declared himself prophet does not make him a prophet unless deluded people like you believe him to be…]

Jesus didn't even declared himself God and yet you believe in him as God. Guess, who is deluded!

[I think you should rather go and read your Quran or probably go and kill an infidel.. ]

You have mistakenly typed the Quran instead of the Bible. Sorry, I am not a follower of the Bible! 'Infidel' is a Biblical term and they should be put to death. So, it's now your duty to follow the Bible. Otherwise you are not a true Christian!

The foolish Apostate wrote:

"I believed in things like waging war against the Kuffar, taking their women as slaves, killing of apostates, subjugation of women because they were God’s laws."

LOL! You ignorant Apostate. You know nothing about God's Law, i.e., the Qur'an.

Editor's Note: AMIM, Stop Using 1. abusive language 2. Weblinks that serve nothing factual.

Guys, okie but what will all this lead to. Do you believe opening a web site and accusing Muslims basic source of inspiration change them? Do you feel some of the misguided Muslims who are killing and terrorising people change their paths by these accusations?

I do not accuse anyone else's faith so I want to know why is my faith being challenged? what is your mission statement?

Okie here is a copy paste from one of my other comments.

Jesus was a fun loving wine drinking prophet, Krishna of Hindus was a fun loving prophet but who caused a great war, Buddha was a prophet of Buddhists who renounced everything even his child and wife.

Now drinking wine, causing a war or leaving his family is only one aspect of these prophets. Now tell me isn’t this website only taking one aspect of the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) .

Its only political Islam that Muslims need to shy from and not Islam.

Wasim

"Do you believe opening a web site and accusing Muslims basic source of inspiration change them?"

The attempt here is to highlight that basic source of inspiration of muslims called Quran is root source of violence and irrationality among muslims. The most austere followers of Koran are Taliban, that is why no muslim could come forward and say quoting Quran that what they do is wrong. The source of strength for Taliban is Quran, that is why they proliferate easily in any muslim society, people at grass-roots are convinced that they are morally and islamically correct.

" Do you feel some of the misguided Muslims who are killing and terrorising people change their paths by these accusations? "

At least Taliban will be easier to isolate to be dealt with appropriately, if other muslims start dumping source of their inspiration called Quran. You have not proved quoting Quran that they are misguided (they are actually guided by Quran).

Congratulations and welcome to the world of mind freedom. I have some comments:
1) There are many imams who left Islam, as a matter of fact the people who know Islam really well, have already left it. Of course there are others who are making business from breaching Islam and would never leave.
2) Most of the Arab apostates I know are highly qualified and of knowledge about Islam. I know one who was an official Imam for decades of his life.
3) We are ex Muslims and we know that Islam is based on lies. Our duty is to enlighten the others, Muslims and non Muslims, to the danger of Islam. If we do not win, then groups like the Muslim brotherhood or Taliban will lead our communities. That is worse than death.
4) Our aim is to expose Islam, that doesn’t mean we all have to agree on other political issues. However, the following are some facts, as I know it, about the Israeli/Arab issues:
a)The Arabs of Israel, more than a million of them, enjoy a far better standard of living and more democratic rights than the rest of the Palestinians in the west bank or gaza.
b) Hamas is a criminal organization that terrorises the Palestinians. Speak to the palestinains and see how they feel about hamas. Hamas killed dozens of Arabs because they belonged to different organisations.

Thanks Kam Baksh. I am not a Hafiz but do you know Quran says that killing one innocent is like killing the entire humanity and that there is no compulsion in religion. It even acknowledges Jesus and Moses as prophets and some hadiths even acknoweldge propehts of other religions.

Regarding Taliban, I also used to believe that they are being uselessly blamed unless they started making our life hell in Pakistan. They are the people I hate. They have made life for other innocent Afghans a hell. And those Muslims who cant criticise them only send out wrong impressions to the outer world and also keep making life of people under them more hell.

Wasim:

"Jesus was a fun loving wine drinking prophet, Krishna of Hindus was a fun loving prophet but who caused a great war, Buddha was a prophet of Buddhists who renounced everything even his child and wife."

This is called mis-quoting and misleading, encouraged by Islam called taquiya.
Jesus never caused any war or participated in bloodshed. Krishna tried his utmost to prevent the war, before it actually happened. Buddha renounced his kingdom, he left his kingdom to his wife and child. After enlightenment, he went to meet his father, wife, and child again to explain his reasons for leaving. His wife Yashodhara forgave him but stayed back in the kingdom, his son Rahul became his disciple later on.
Viewing in this perspective, you cannot compare their acts with Mohammad. Mohammad was a deliberate war-monger and hostage killer. His dealings with women were immoral, especially his marriage to Ayesha and his daughter in law. He is source of moral turpitude among muslims of present days. There is no separation between political or religious islam. Islam needs burial, whether it is going to be decent or bloody, only that needs to be decided.

Kam Baksh,

You are using Hindutwa lies. Your God Krishna used to possess more than 16,000 wives and gopis that makes him the greatest sex-maniac for all times. He was one of the greatest warmonger too. Read the Mahabharata and Gita. I will come about it again. You are a cheat and a liar who is trying to fool none but himself.

Wasim:

"I am not a Hafiz but do you know Quran says that killing one innocent is like killing the entire humanity and that there is no compulsion in religion. "

Indeed this is true. I also liked it. But is it in practice? Answer yourself, looking at the killings going on around you on daily basis all in the name of Islam.
Why is it not in practice then? I also used to wonder. I found the reason was because there are several verses that contradict it. What is happening to SWAT right under the nose? Is there any criticism in Pakistan, while people do beat their chests on Palistine?
Taliban is austere Islam, till such time you understand this, you will remain under the same delusion of goodness about islam. If Taliban acquires a critical mass, you simply cannot stop them because Islam is with them, so will be the followers of Islam.

There is no separation between political or religious islam.

Then who are the sufis? Didn't the church used to hold the same grip on politics and didnt they seperate out? Is Turkey not an example of the same?

Islam needs burial, whether it is going to be decent or bloody, only that needs to be decided.

Now aren't you talking violence. A billion plus followers and you feel that they all will renounce Islam. There are prople who will become all the more vicious. There will be people who will feel that everyone else has conferenced against Islam. Maybe you will unite some of them even more.

Kam Baksh, we need to seek a way forward as even Obama says based on Mutual respect. Allthough he has allready now been scoring low in the Muslim world. I visited this web site once or twice before but never commented. I didnt see people making sensible comments and therefore decided let me try to talk out.

Listen AMIM

I can more than match you on abuses, better keep your language in check. If warnings from editors don`t work on you, let me see then.

Wasim said Krishna and war mongering, which is incorrect to say in the first place since Krishna had tried his utmost to prevent the war in the first place (that is a very well-reported fact). If you want to rend your hair apart on that issue, nobody can help you there.

If you see hindutva in this, then I see a moron mullah in you.

Foolish AMIM

"You are a cheat and a liar who is trying to fool none but himself."

In some quote a couple od days back, you mentioned a lie that hindu god Rama had four wives. I asked for quote and source, you ran away like a mongrel bitch being chased.
You Jackass, you have temerity to make a statement like that. You shameless!

You got it Wasim, people like this guy make Islam look really bad (even though it is not that bad as it turns out to be with efforts of such morons)

Okie okie guys relax. Rama had only one wife and as far a Hindu told me Krishna's 16000 Gopis were basically the enlightened 16000 people. (Some sort of philosphy)

So Kam Baksh you see here I am not doing any deceipt or Taqiya. But don't you see there will be many more Muslims who will be angry by your writings.

I frankly don;t feel any fundamentalist or moderate Muslim will actually leave Islam based on all this. Maybe a few. But then you might have angry MIM's in thousands.

Wasim:

Sufis are mystics. They are actually the real people of religion. Do you think they can have a life in true Islamic society? Ask yourself. They are underground.
Forget church, it is toothless. There are many smart people who reformed christianity from within. Do you see that in Islam? Can you really reform Taliban when there is not even criticizm.
Billion plus followers need not renounce Islam, afterall Christians are still continuing without Taliban equivalents among them. What is needed is reform. You cannot do so till such time you recognize the drawbacks including those of Mohammad.
Whether I say anything for or against violence, it makes no difference. The fact on the ground is that there is on-going violence already. There will be more violence or less if Taliban come to control Pakistan also? What do you think will happen?

Wasim,
From your language, I can make out that you are not from fundamentalist family and your parents have inculcated in you a sense of respect for others opinion and I really appreciate that in guys.
to add ot what Kam Baksh has written, I guess you are one of those muslims who have been pushed into reciting quran in a foreign language "arabic" and you have not understood some of the basic aspects of Quran. The later quranic verses abrogate the earlier ones. When Mohammad was in minority, he quoted stuff like " no compulsion in religion" but as soon as he gained majority, he abrogated those verses. I think you should consult various sources of Quran in a language that you understand best and read it thorougly.
if you remember the recent protests across Europe, what was happening..
"islam will dominate", "don't you remember 9/11" and all that is inspired by Quran. They were violent and abusive calling the gentle police by all invectives that they had in their dictionary.
Now, if Islam were the true religion and a religion of peace, why would the apostates have to be killed(as per quran). is your religion(we call it terror cult) so weak that a few apostates can shake its foundations that you have to kill the apostates.
Why does the world have to be converted to islam? why are jews called the descendants of apes and pigs? is there any other religion that preaches so much hatred into people? why does Mohammad recommend spanking kids if they do not start reading quran by age 7?
why are idolators to be smited at their necks?
why are ahmedias declared as non-muslims in a muslim country called pakistan when they also follow the same quran? why are they prosecuted and killed if they do any islamic act e.g. call themselves muslims?
Why is no religous freedom for non-muslims in islamic countries when muslims enjoy more than equal rights in non-islamic countries?
these are some of the questions that you should ask yourself?
why are terrorists using quran to justify their acts? why are fatwas issued by muslim clergy against terrorism always qualified instead of unqualified?
going by your understanding of Quran, you will be called a Kufr by islamists and would probably be decapitated?
who is killing muslims in iraq? it is muslims themselves
who is killing muslims in pakistan? muslims themselves
who is killling muslims in somali and darfur? muslims themselves and why?
one group thinks that the other is not following sharia and are not true muslims

A-MIM,
your understanding of hinduism and Christianity is as little as your debating skills., it is worthless talking to you but i will still repond to your one query
Why did krishna have 16000 wives?
well, he did not have sex with any of those 16000 but just gave them the title of his wives because those unfortunate ladies were slaves and when he freed them, they would not have been given any respect in society and that is why he gave his name so that they could be respected and not because he was a sex maniac the way mohammad was..
What did mohammad do when he got women slaves? he took 20% of the booty for his sexual fantasies and distributed the rest among his followers.

"But don’t you see there will be many more Muslims who will be angry by your writings.

I frankly don;t feel any fundamentalist or moderate Muslim will actually leave Islam based on all this."

Muslims already are angry with me, but they cannot argue with me (and I am no rookie under the thumb to be pushed around, just to tell you, 15 people report to me directly at my work place!)
Muslims need not leave Islam, I am not for it. Only reform it to make it contemporary. But since people believe it is from Allah, reforming it will carry seeds to eventually finish it. That is a paradox. So very intelligent, social reform is needed to check the advance of Taliban like people.

Kam Baksh I agree somewhat to what you say. Sufism does not have place in the hardcore Islamist's world view.

But sufis are also Muslims. they also have their cource of inspiration in Quran. So aren't you contradicting yourself. So the source is not wrong. Its only the few who are misusing the source....right?

As for Taliban coming to Pakistan, I shudder now to think that. But sooner or later that might happen. If not Taliban then kind of similar philosphy.

Sufis are people of religion. That is correct way to say.

Please go deep into sufi tradition, their source of inspiration is not Quran (you will be really surprised to discover that but you have to really go deep). Actually, the early sufis like Mansoor were brutally murdered by muslims for making statements like An`al Haq. Farid was killed by aurangzeb for not reciting the kalima. To avoid that, sufis gradually started calling themselves muslims (it is afterall not wise to get killed), but they are actually not.

Wasim,
you have decided not to answer my questions, it seems but I know it is very hard in the beginning because it is life shattering to know that something you believed in is actually a bunch of lies, rape and murders....
We don't preach religion here although sometimes this forum gets hijacked by people who want to propagate their religion.
If at all we preach here anything, we preach the religion of humanity where people have the right to question and not be killed, where people have the understanding that there can be different belief systems and there is more than one way to understand the purpose of life.. where people are not stoned to death for questioning people's shady characters, where women have the same rights as men do , where people are not identified by religion but by who they are, how they treat their fellow human beings...

Focussed/Kam Baksh, I am here for open debate so I am not avoiding anyone.

I am also not shattered at anything. I will explore definitely. I am ready to. My certain belief is that there is a western zionist philosphy at work somewhere.

The Catholics don't like Buddhist and even Hindus. While India is dancing to tune that a movie slumdog is gaining awards all I can see is the catholic way of showing their people poverty of India of showing how indians are illiterate. They have been known for that. Their movies like Rambo showed buddhists in burma in poor light. Islam is today their biggest threat in terms of its people and population. Ali Sina seems to be an Irani as he talked about ferdowsi and Rostam.

My best bet is that some ex Muslims funded by westerners are at play here. But they will not let anyone explore anything else as well. If Islam were to go they will have no better work than to fight even Hindus and Buddhists.

I will like that definitely moderate and sensible people amongst Muslims come forward and criticise the wrong among them. It will be difficult for the Clergy class to do that. I criticise Taliban severely because they only know violence. They know nothing else.

Kam Baksh, I will investigate that thing regarding sufis. I have read Rumi and I have seen in his writings that he was greatly influenced by some verses of Quran.

The current Islamists critcise sufis because they do not consider them austere Islam. That way I never liked them because their knowledge of Islam is highly bookish and the way they talk is full of hate. I havent met good sufis currently as well. I will surely debate. I am not the one who will accept anything irrational or will get shattered even if I know i am wrong.

Also , please note how violence in georgia brought the entire west together while violence in Srilanka where thousands of Hindus have been massacred allready shows no signs of activity anywhere. So if you are Hindus you should not blindly come in the game of west. But my best bet is that you are Iranis. Iranis never liked the way Islam came in Iran. It was kind of Arabic invasion on them. Their culture distorted.

Similarly there were many innocent civilians who also died in Israel and that is what makes Muslims angry? Don't you think those killings will make people angry?

Wasim,
I really like you man. I like your openness to explore and question because that is why humans are different form other animals on this planet.
You are humane not because of Islam but inspite of islam.
Yes, Ali Sina is an Iranian and he has already said that. The problem is that if any ex-muslim comes into public, the next day there will be a fatwa for his death and then he/she will have to move to west and be under 24/7 security..
There is a lot of volunteer work that goes on here and people do it on their own. A lot of people contribute towards this website as well through donations.

Regarding catholics hating buddhists and hindus, catholics hate protestants as well. Infact, if you go to ireland, a few years back a group used to carry a procession every year to commamorate the slaughtering of one christian group by another but the catholics are themselves marginalised in western society. Besides, nowadays if you criticize any non-islamic religion, you are not immediately declared an apostate and therefore sub-human who could be killed by anyone.
Apostasy was a big crime in early christianity and i suppose that is where from it was copied into islam as well but when was the last time you saw a christian murded for giving up his religious beliefs..
By the way, all sufis were not mystic poets who propagated plularism .. only a few did that..

Regarding Slumdog being a big hit with indians, that is the impression that mainstream media that middle class listens to creates but trust me, there are lot more who felt repulsive about the movie. The only reason it got so many awards is because western film fraternity live on a planet of their own and feel good about themselves when they give awards to such films. Yes there are lot of poor indians who deserve a better standard of living but the main stream media is not interested in that.. they are interested in only trps and false glory that such awards bring.. who gives a fuck about ar rehman getting a golden globe or any bollywood person getting any award when there are millions who are not able to get a square meal a day..

Wasim,
it is not a hindu was non-hindu fight in sri-lanka.. it is a fight between two linguistic people .. sinahlese with srilankan tamils ..
ltte has killed more tamilans than the sri-lankan army and that is why there is no sympathy for ltte in tamil nadu. Hindus have never supported LTTE because they were hindus..
The problem with muslims getting angry over palestine is more political than religous. there are more muslims killed by muslims everyday and yet there is no condemnation of such muslims.. why? becaue Quran prohibits them from condemning their fellow muslims.
There are different website and different authors who have written about the hate in islam and those come from shia dominated iran to sunni dominated arab world like egypt and saudi and from Islamic countries like pakistan who would like to believe themselves as arabs but are actually from undivided india..
Israeli arabs enjoy more freedom than arabs anywhere in middle east. In israel arab population is 20% and increasing why?
Why is Egypt, an arab muslim country not allowing free access to gazans when they know that they are also muslims?

Thanks focussed.

Before I leave for the day I will like Mr Ali Sina to give me a solid reason that this web site is not an Islamophobe website. What will you achieve by ''ENLIGHTENING'' Muslims as anyways my best bet is that there will be thousands of Muslims allready spreading message that this web site is fake and propaganda. There is a faithfreedom.com website and many Muslims allready are trying to get it closed down. One day some big saudi sheikh will succeed as well.

See, I am fed up of this fatwa syndrome and people becoming narrower and more conservative in the Muslim world. I dont get whats wrong with them. But there are good Muslims as well and those that do read Quran .

Give me why you feel that Muslims are seperate from other religions. Leave the prophet(PBUH) at this juncture.

AND I WILL DEBATE. Because I believe that there are 1000's of Islamophobes throughout the world currently who at the mere sight of a Muslim feel he is a terrorist which is wrong. Innocent Muslims are becoming sandwich between these fundamentalists and Islamophobes. I still feel I am debating to Islamophobes but I will also explore whats the fine line that makes people hate Muslims and Muslims hate others.

Wasim,
if poeple are turning islamophobes, you have no one to blames but the proponents of islam.. it is not the ones who commit terror acts but it is the so called moderate ones who issue qualified statements condemning terror or who try to justify terror.. when 3000 people died in NY, only muslims were celebrating why? because islam has made them inhuman to non-muslims..
yes, there are 1000's who will dub this website as a zionist propaganda machine but I don't think people who are running this website are upset about that.. it is good that more and more people visit this website..
Renaissance was not brought about by millions of people but by the very few who believed in it..
American freedom and liberty was not brought about by all but by the few who dared to dream..
if we fail while trying to do this, atleast we can say that we tried to save humanity.
the earth is not a bad place because of the bad people but because of the good people who fail to act.
Let us forget mohammad for a while and see what islam does?
the first thing that gets destroyed is local culture.. people are given arabic names blah blah.. temples are destoryed, great works of art are destroyed, all cultural things are banned, women are banned from working or going out without a male companion..
can you imagine if whole world was like that?
it will be a hell..and what would life be if all that you see is same.. the economy will slump as most of the economic activities will be closed down own to sharia bans..

let me now answer one point that you have raised
"Give me why you feel that Muslims are seperate from other religions. Leave the prophet(PBUH) at this juncture. "

Note the words you have used "muslims" and "other religion". you are again making no distinction between islam and muslims. I am not saying all muslims are bad or all muslims are terrorists but what we are trying to say is islam is a terror doctrine that needs to be removed.. take the islam away from muslims and i bet 95% of the strife in the world will be over because islam does not allow other religions the same rights that it enjoys..
have you seen people of religous faiths going around proclaiming that it is the only true religion?
i will write more later..

As polite and civilized as Wasim is, he is still very brainwashed.
Using terms such as 'Western Zionist' shows the extent of his arab media propaganda exposure. The fact is, that muslims are completely oblivious to the fact that Islam is responsible for 95% of the worlds problems. They focus on the Iraq war and the israeli-palestinian conflict completely ignoring the fact that Islam is the cancer that caused these problems. An example of muslim hypocrisy/ignorance: The majority of deaths in Iraq are caused not by American troops, but by domestic terrorism(mostly suicide bombings).
I love how they are so ignorant about actual history of Israel.
Like Ali Sina said, there was no 'palestinian' people before 1948. Palestinians are nothing more than displaced Jordanians,Eyptians and Syrians.Explaining the history would be too long here, but just to help them get a head start:

Dearest Muslim,
This is just to give you a head start into unbiased thinking: Forget what you've been taught, please open some history books and try to answer the following:

By Yashiko Sagamori

If you are so sure that Palestine , the country, goes back through
most of recorded history, I expect you to be able to answer a few
basic questions about that country of Palestine :
1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Haj al Amin
and Arafat?
8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at
that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
9. What was the language of the country of **Palestine**?
10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of **Palestine**?

11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and
tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian
monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese
yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.
12. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused
its demise and when did it occur?

You are lamenting the 'low sinking' of a 'once proud'
nation. Please
tell me when exactly was that 'nation' proud and what was it so
proud
of?

And here is the least sarcastic question of all:
If the people you mistakenly call 'Palestinians' are anything but
generic Arabs collected from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab
world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them
right for self-determination, why did they never try to become
independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six
Day War? (1967)

Please do not respond if you cannot answer at least 4-5 of the 13 questions asked.

Thank You
Peace

"But don’t you see there will be many more Muslims who will be angry by your writings."

Sweet. So the next time you try to commit murder, just think about using this line of reasoning in court: I killed somebody, yes I did, but don't you dare convict me or else I am going to get angry and then go and kill you (the judge) and your family and many more people."

I have been reading through the comments. I can agree to some of them as I myself dont like certain things. I am sleepy but will think over the debate. There are certain fine threads that you guys seem to miss. Will return

Wasim,
we are open to debate and new thought processes. Your opinion will count as long as it is logical, reasoned and civilized which I must say you have exemplified..