Qur'anic Surat Alfeel: A Myth

Dear Ibn, what you state is not correct. I don't know about the possibility of domesticating the african elephants, but for sure Hannibal of Carthago brought a big army in Italy, in his fight against Rome, including a wide number of elephants. This move contributed to rapid and shocking successes against the roman troops, based of fantery.
Were they african elephants or asian (imported through the middle east)?
For what I know elephants had been widely used in warfare all over the Middle East and Europe, in the ancient time (Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, etc.).
If you check other sources of information about the abyssinian invasion of arab peninsula you will find other authors speaking about the elephants' incorporated in the army.

There is an account of Greek Commander Selucus Nikator (successor of Alexender's Asian posessions as he did not have any sons) acquiring around 5000 elephants from Emperor Chandragupta of India after a matrimonial alliance at around 300 BC.

Even though African elephants might not have been domesticated, it is well plausible that East Asian and Indian elephants were not unheard of. This might explain the origins of the Arab folklore.

I therefore opine it is premature on our part to conclude that the folklore was a myth simply based upon the information that African elephants were never domesticated.

I however quite very much agree that Muhammad was a liar and used a (possibly) historical fact in favour of his claim of Prophethood. Qur'an's other inconsistencies are more than ample proof of his rascaldom!

As we see in this short chapter of the Quran, there is no mentioning of where or when or to whom this event happened. Nothing about Mecca or a destruction plan either. It was Muhammad's habit to relate any tale or event to Allah and give the credits to him. Were Muhammad in our time, he would have used the tsunami event with the same policy, no matter why it happened and who were killed there. He would have simply declared the victims as enemies of Allah.

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My Dear Ibn Kammuna;

Just think,the Elephants could have been imported from India as during that time Indian's had "domesticated Elephants" and they were used for war also. During the time of Alexander the great who tried to invade India.

Myth or not, mohammad being an illiterate got all his knowledge from arab folklores and from storytellers when he used to travel with caravans as young
boy/man. As was generally custom for caravans to stop at dusk to rest for the
night; after eating,burping etc. they would gather around storytellers before falling asleep. Quran is no divine revelations but simply mo's incoherent re-
collection of these stories/folklores. It is sad that even well educated muslims
cannot put 2&2 together and think that what they believe is like mo.,instead of
blowing hot air from his mouth, blew hot air from his a$$ hole twice and said that
call 1st blow quran and 2nd hadith and they are so stupid/scared to think that
how can same hot air blown from same a$$ hole mean different.

Reader said "Thanks for propagating God’s Word. That’s how God uses people to spread His Message to humanity. Don’t you think so?"

My response to Reader:
What the hell are you talking about God's message? People are talking about this verses as myth and you said this is God's message? These verses are nothing but lies from Allah.

One of the many names of Allah is "The Deceiver". The Bible described Satan as "the Great Deceiver". Don't you ever wonder that satan and Allah are one and the same for having the same attribute as a deceiver? This is one of the many reasons why Muslims' God Allah is not the same as the Judeo-Christian God. They are the opposite.

In response to the article, the climate surrounding the Arabian peninsula is not really very accomodating for elephants especially the domisticated ones from southern Asia. Unlike their African cousins, these elephants have smaller ears to dissipate heat from their body therefore they will overheat very quickly in a desert environment. It is true that Asian elephants can be domisticated but it requires castration to control their temperament during musking periods, and this procedure, even today,is prohibited by the people who raise elephants for domistication. Historically, castrating elephants during Muhammad's time is never heard of. If it is difficult to domisticate the Asian elephants, how much more do you think it takes for the African elephants? Elephants will kill people during their musking periods no matter how domisticated they are. This alone will hinder any planned invasion using elephants as transportation, how much more when you consider their food and water consumption during the entire operation? I don't think any army from any period of time will not consider the logistical nightmare it takes to use elephants to invade Mecca.

Excellent article.

Hello, I wish to thank everyone who commented on this view on Surat Alfeel on IW and on FF. I have not changed my view that this Sura is no more than a myth. However, from the comments of people, the possibility of having elephants for war exists. Possibly the Elephants may have come from south east Asia. It is still a fat chance to have a large elephant coming from Ethipia to Yemen, then used in a drive toward Mecca. Its not like the road to mecca was full of trees to eat and water springs. It is a dry hot dessert, not an elephant heaven so to speak. So, the view stays that this Sura is no more than a "tall tale" as Johnny Cash would say. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

Ibn Kammuna is a Christian Missionary. He/she believes that Jesus (a human) is the Creator of the Universe! He/she also believe that the Creator of the Universe died (or was killed?) for the sins of the world including Hitler and Bin Laden! He/she believes in LOTS of similar stuffs as well! Yet he/she thinks that Surat Al-Feel is a Myth! LOL! My question to him/her is, is it something impossible or unbelievable? If not, then why it will be a Myth in the first place? Why can't it be a true event?

I am surprised you havent seen any other problem with this "elephant" story. The story goes on to say that Allah(SWT) created these little birds just to drop clay stones on the elephant. Now, two problems arise out of this. First of all, litle birds cannot be created on the spur of the moment. Living creatures evolve. They are not created the way they are. Secondly, little stones dropped on an elephant's head will not kill the animal. No one in their right mind would believe these fairytales. Only muslims and Abrahamist would believe in religious fairytales.

Let me set the record straight for people who are intellectually challenged.
1) Horses do not fly. Get that into your thick skull. Even if you attach wings on them, they cannot achieve sustainable flight, simply because they are too heavy and do not have the thrust to balance weight. And they are not aerodynamically designed to produce enough lift to oppose the motion of drag in flight. So BURAQ is a hoax. Muhammad didnt go anywhere on that horse. The prophet lied.
2) People cannot live inside the belly of fish. It is just incredibly stupid to believe these things. The story of the Noah living inside the fish, cooking, eating, playing tennis, doing dishes etc is a hoax. Get real you religious nutters. Grow a brain.
3) Elephants cannot be killed by dropping stone missiles carried in the beak of little birds. Now go to some psychiatry clinic and get your head checked. Or go kill yourself because you religious nutters are too stupid and you are polluting the human gene pool.

Dear "sundried atheist", your reply is too sarcastic. If we want to be effective in the action, we have to be precise and reliable. Second hand news and urban legends should be banned from our vocabulary.
We cannot debunk this portion of the quran on the base that elephants could not have been used by abyssininas.
More to the point: I totally agree with you that the explanation of the military defeat (it was a withdrawn due to the accidental death of the leader, for what I know) of the abyssinians is meaningless: there are no birds carrying stones or the like. These are fairytales.
Religions often start as fairytales, to transform themselves in nightmares, as soon as they come in touch with power.

RE: Reader

I dint know that Ibn Kammuna is a Missionary, because never tried to convert me in all these days while I got to know him. Now coming to the authenticity of the Sura, reader, you just don't belong here. Because this Forum is meant for people who still have their brains intact. Just Because IK did not waste his time enumerating the various reasons that this Sura is a fairy tale gone bad, does not mean that it is true. Let me tell you why:
1. Elephants cannot survive a single day without food and water. They need water in gallons and not just a few bottles.Now consider this traveling from Yemen to Saudi Arabia like 1400 years back would take a at least 7-10 days in order to arrive to the location of the Kabba. How do you think the people could carry so much water and food for the Elephants for so many days.
2. How in this world did the those who launched the attack, get those elephants even if they came from South Asia. They would need huge ships to get them even from India. Do you know how much an elephant weighs. In those days the Persians and the Romans were the only ones who might have had such vessels available.
3. Even if they had the vessels to bring those elephants that they would have survive this arrdous journey all the way from India to Africa or Arabia?
4. Elephants cannot survive in a desert environment, simply because the loose a lot of water through perspiration and traveling such long distances would cause huge water loosed resulting in immediate or at least a shock which would render them incapable of traveling further.
5. Elephants are extremely sensitive to change in the climate. The deserts have extremes of climates. During the day as well during the night. Elephants are animals which survive only in temperate zones, with abundant waterfall.
6. Even if we disregard all of the above, how do you think the elephants would move in desert with their heavy weight. Moreover the elephants feet are not padded, unlike those of camels. This would mean that the elephants would end up burning their feet, load, stock and barrel.
7. Further if your Allah did send those stupid birds to defend the Kaaba, why did he not do that again on two other occasions when it was attacked on two further occasions. Mind you the attackers were successful both of these two times and even took the black stone away with them.
8. Did you Allah in all his greatness not have a better way of defending the Kaaba than sending a few birds with clay stones in their beaks. I mean if he could conceive Jesus in Mary's womb (according to your Quran) by saying be, I am sure he could again say be and the elephants would have vanished.
9. If all those elephants actually did attack them Qureish, why the hell don't we see any bones of the elephants. I mean there must be some bones or something.
10. Being Pagans at that time the Arabs would have certainly gathered the clay pebbles, considering it as a sign form their Moon God Allah. Where are those pebbles.

We don't accept anything on face value, bring your proofs and we will listen to you. If you ain't got nothing to say, then don't say nothing.

The entire koran is a myth

My good brother and friend Ibrahim, well said
Even though I reached a point where if anyone attacks my personna instead of the issue, I just ignore it an don't bother to response. such an attack is a logical fallacy. People who commit it don't deserve a response, this is the conclusion I reached. Peace

Arguements have to be countered in a polite and intelligent manner.But moslems lack both! If any one can believe the pedophile prophet and what he gassed out of his intestines, then they have nothing in their cranial cavity

The 'first true scientist':
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7810846.stm

Re: Mr. Lone

Don’t be blind and don’t act like a kid. First of all, you have to read what the Quran says, and not what others say! You are running after an illusion! Where in the Quran does it mention the place of this specific event?

Reader, stop being a fool. Read the Tafsir and you will know.

Reader you can access this website. http://www.al-islam.com/arb/
It is the website run by the Government of Saudi Arabia, you will get every you need to know about the Surat Al Feel there.

plz read that , it is off topic but i m unable to post it in forum

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Martyrs/matisatidyal/MatiSatiDyal.htm

Reader:

Yet he/she thinks that Surat Al-Feel is a Myth! LOL! My question to him/her is, is it something impossible or unbelievable? If not, then why it will be a Myth in the first place? Why can’t it be a true event?

Can you prove there were elephants in Saudi Arabia by using archaeological and historical evidence to prove what took place in the Quran was a true event. Most of the evidence points the land would have been inhospitable area for elephants. But if you have evidence that refutes this then please explain to us how is it possible for elephants to exists in Saudi Arabia.

Marie: I am sure you fat ass has traces of elephants! CHECK IT OUT, IT IS HIDDEN THERE, YOU WILL FIND IT

Hidden Elephant Crouching Prophet

Can a winged horse or the man on the winged horse breathe in the lower atmospheric air pressure on ascent? The Greeks had the Pegasus a winged horse.